Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Ukraine Tries First Russian Soldier For Alleged War Crime; Russia Retreating Near Kharkiv, Ukraine's Second-Largest City; Surging GOP Candidate Kathy Barnette Shakes Up P.A. Senate Race; Democratic Opponents Say 2013 Incident Where Fetterman Pulled Gun On Unarmed Black Jogger Is "Disqualifying;" Former Vice President Pence To Rally Support For Gov. Kemp; Federal Judge To Decide Fate Of Title 42 Border Policy. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired May 13, 2022 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: What happens when a Trump back T.V. doctor, a former radio show host who's too extreme for Fox and conservative hedge fund executives all try to out MAGA each other.

Plus, it is the end of an era at one of the country's most controversial police departments after 20 years of federal government oversight. Will the Oakland California police return to their old ways?

And leading this hour the Ukrainian military says it has retaken villages outside the city of Kharkiv in the eastern part of Ukraine. This as Ukraine begins its first war crimes prosecution against a Russian soldier since Putin's unprovoked invasion began at the end of February. A 21-year-old Russian has been charged with killing a 62- year-old man riding a bicycle unarmed.

CNN's Melissa Bell was at the courthouse today in Kyiv and she starts us off with our coverage. A warning, this report contains disturbing images.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA BELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Still at war with Russia but already fighting for justice. Ukraine's opened its first war crimes trial. A 21-year-old Russian soldier Vadim Shyshimarin (ph) accused of shooting an unarmed civilian on the fourth day of the war. So far, Ukraine has identified 11,239 alleged war crimes according to the country's prosecutor. They include the massacre of 300 unarmed civilians in Bucha, and the killing of many hundreds of civilians, mainly women and children, in the more than two-month long siege of Kharkiv.

IRYNA VENEDIKTOVA, UKRAINE'S PROSECUTOR GENERAL: We have for now some evidences that commanders gave the orders shot civilians. But from either side, we understand that ordinary soldiers have their own responsibility for this atrocity. BELL (voice-over): And that says Iryna Venediktova is a message that needs to be sent now so that Russian soldiers understand there will be no impunity, even as the fighting in regions like Luhansk continues. She says she's been helped in gathering facts by the many foreign forensic teams working in towns like Bucha, evidence that will also be used by the International Criminal Court as it investigates both Russia's overall aggression in Ukraine and the individual war crimes allegedly committed by Russian soldiers, which Russia denies.

LUIS MORENO OCAMPO, PROSECUTOR, INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT: And they have to understand they cannot use the armies to invade another country, and they cannot use the army to kill civilians.

BELL (voice-over): For now, though, it is in this small courthouse in key that Ukrainian justice will have its first say. But can a trial be fair during a war?

Shyshimarin's Ukrainian lawyer says he has faith in the impartiality of the country's judiciary, and that the court can be trusted to make a reasoned decision. He has yet to enter a plea.

The Kremlin spokesman says he has no information about the case. But the size of the media pack inside spoke to the interest and emotion involved on all sides.

Shyshimarin's courts translator telling CNN at the end of the hearing that she, for her part, felt no anger towards the 21-year-old who could face life in jail. After all, she told us, the tears of Russian mothers are salty too.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

BELL: Jake, there will be many more tears to come on both sides and many more trials to come, many of them in international courts. The problem with international justice, as we've seen since it was born in the Nuremberg trials at the end of the Second World War, is that it takes time, and it tends to happen after the event.

These trials say the country's prosecutor happening even while the war is unfolding. That not only brings justice to the victims of those alleged crimes that have already taken place, but she believes will help prevent further crimes from taking place or at least change the nature of the mindset of soldiers who for the time being have believed that they've been able to act with impunity. And that's why, she says, it's essential that they should take place, Jake.

TAPPER: Melissa Bell reporting live for us from Kyiv, thank you so much.

Let's bring in Andriy Zagorodnyuk. He's the former Ukrainian minister of defense. He now serves as an adviser to the Ukrainian government. Thanks so much for joining us.

I want to get your reaction to Ukraine holding its first war crimes trial. Are you confident this is going to be a fair trial? ANDRIY ZAGORODNYUK, FORMER UKRAINIAN MINISTER OF DEFENSE: Yes. Yes, absolutely. First of all, there is, you know, a process which Ukrainian legislation has currently is fully meets international standards.

Secondly, we obviously understand that there will be a huge attention to this from the all-international community, including advisors who came from various European countries to advise Ukrainian government on that. And there are forensic advisors and their lawyers and so on.

So Ukraine specifically does this very openly in order to ensure that this is recognized and this holds credible around the world. So yes, for that reason alone, it's -- it should be very interesting.

[17:05:02]

TAPPER: Ukraine's Prosecutor General's Office has told CNN that more than 11,000, 11,000 alleged war crimes by Russian soldiers are currently being investigated. How do you even begin to prosecute that many war crimes?

ZAGORODNYUK: Yes, it's so very difficult. It's -- and it's -- we're just under two months of war. And we realized that a lot of these crimes have a very similar pattern. And that gives us, you know, reason to believe that this was used as a weapon. So it's a terror as a weapon, it's rape as a weapon. It's like, you know, destruction of the civilian infrastructure as a weapon. So, all that, obviously will be qualified, but that's a huge task, yes.

And that's why again, Ukraine is going to rely on international community because only when you are overlooked Nuremberg Trial only, only that type of trials will be internationally recognized and supported. So, that's why we are in front of the very serious process, which will take, I don't know when for how long. But there's a lot of things to investigate, unfortunately.

TAPPER: Unfortunately, yes. Satellite images show Russian forces have pulled back from the northeast region of Kharkiv where there does appear to be a powerful counter offensive by Ukrainian forces. How do you interpret this development?

ZAGORODNYUK: Well, first of all, let's not forget that Russians collected all their possible forces in order to do that, what they call battle on the Donbass, and they are failing. And that explains a lot. And that shows that Russian army is far less effective than many military experts believed.

So Ukraine is motivated, Ukraine is more efficient, and Ukraine has less weapons -- we have less weapons but we are trying very hard. And that's what gives us the trust that there will be victory at the end. That's very clear.

TAPPER: There have been reports of morale issues, low morale among Russian troops. Is that a factor in Ukraine's success?

ZAGORODNYUK: Yes. And there are two factors in morale issues, which we need to distinguish. First of all, they have no idea what they're doing and why they're doing this. They are clearly understanding that they're losing, they clearly understand that they have a very bad support and logistics and command and control situation is very significance, you know, like problems. So that's one thing.

And the other thing is that generally the Russian doctrine, international organization is based on Soviet. And there, it's highly centralized, highly radical and has no respect for humans at all, including their own. They don't pick up their bodies, they don't care how many soldiers they lose, and they're losing already far more than expected. And obviously, that is greater low morale, because people understand that their commander is not caring about them. And that's a massive factor in their performance.

TAPPER: So Ukraine's defense chief says Ukraine is now in the long phase of the war. What does that mean to you? How long do you see this playing out?

ZAGORODNYUK: That depends on one specific factor, it's how much equipment we're going to receive from the west and when and in which specification. So what types of equipment, because if we receive what we're asking for, that will still last months, but this year, and was sometimes saying as early as October, we can already clear the area which they took since 24th of February. But if we receive piece by piece, like long sort of piecemeal approach of provision of the weapons, then yes, then this thing may go for much more.

And we are categorically not interested in a protracted war, because this will exhaust our allies, this will exhaust Ukrainian economy and so on. So, it's in everybody's interest to finish this as soon as we can. And it's possible.

TAPPER: Former Minister of Defense Andriy Zagorodnyuk, thank you so much. Good to see you, sir. Appreciate it.

WNBA star and Olympic gold medalist Brittney Griner just appeared in a Russian courtroom. The upsetting ruling next.

Then fires destroying houses in moments, dust storms, homes being washed away. Temperatures so hot it's causing bridges to collapse. The destruction from the climate crisis, that's ahead. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:13:37]

TAPPER: Also, in our world lead, Russia state news agency says a court extended the detention of U.S. basketball star Brittney Griner. The predominant athlete was arrested back in February at a Russian airport charged with drug smuggling. Let's get the latest from CNN's Polo Sandoval.

Polo, grinder is now going to be held until June 18. But a U.S. official did get a chance to speak with her?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, it was the State Department spokesperson that said that Brittney Griner actually had an opportunity to speak briefly to a U.S. embassy official on the sidelines during Friday's court appearance. They confirmed that she is doing well or at least as best that she can, given what's happening right now in these exceedingly difficult circumstances.

The WNBA also weighing in after today's news, saying that it was expected as they continue to push for the release of the two time Olympic gold medal winner. The big question now as we go into the weekend is, is this perhaps bringing her closer to standing trial in a Russian courtroom? Or will she be released and returned to the United States before her case actually reaches that point?

Today, the State Department also, we heard them reiterate what they said just last week saying that she is being quote, "wrongfully detained." She's been in Russian custody for the last three months now arrested in mid-February when cannabis oil was allegedly found in her luggage after landing at an airport in Moscow. There's video from that day during that screening.

She was charged with drug smuggling and now face is up to 10 years in prison if convicted. Now the U.S. efforts to actually free her. It's really now in the hands of the Special Presidential Envoy for hostage affairs.

[17:15:09]

They may sound familiar. This is that same office that recently played a very key role, Jake, in securing the release of Marine veteran Trevor Reed from Russian custody after that prisoner swap not long ago.

TAPPER: Yes, what a great day that was.

Also, Polo, the U.S. and Russia are in a war of words about whether Brittney Griner's detention can be called illegal?

SANDOVAL: Yes, not long after the Biden administration basically escalated its efforts to get her back into United States. Russian officials responding to that saying, at least we heard from the Russian Foreign Minister's office, saying that they maintained that these charges, they are serious. And also her detention was based on what they described as objective facts and evidence. And then they took a little further and saying that the State Department's efforts to try to bring her back to the United States that they consider those an attempt to cast doubt on the validity of the detention. But ultimately, though, her family, the big fear among many of her supporters, is she'll simply be used as a political pawn, as those tensions between the U.S. and Russia continue to escalate.

TAPPER: Polo Sandoval, thank you so much.

A quick programing note. Be sure to tune in this Sunday when CNN Fareed Zakaria asks experts why Vladimir Putin is trying to destroy Ukraine and whether he can be stopped. "Inside the Mind of Vladimir Putin" begin Sunday evening at 8:00 Eastern and Pacific.

Coming up, the Pennsylvania Republican Senate candidate who has Donald Trump nervous, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:21:03]

TAPPER: It is not a common time in the Commonwealth, we're just four days away from the highly anticipated Pennsylvania primary elections. And for Republicans, a last-minute wildcard in the Senate race is causing major concerns among the Republican Party leadership. Most of the race so far has been focused on Trump backed Dr. Mehmet Oz and former hedge fund manager David McCormick, but conservative political commentator and former radio show host Kathy Barnette has surged in recent polls leading Trump allies to sound the alarm. They say that Barnette is not a well vetted candidate.

Now it is true that we have known for months that Barnette is one of the most vociferous sharers of lies about the 2020 presidential election. And now CNN's cave (ph) file has uncovered a history of straight up bigotry, anti-Muslim and anti-gay statements made by Barnette. This, for example, is what she said on her radio show right after the Supreme Court ruled -- ruling cleared the way for same sex marriage in July 2015.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KATHY BARNETTE, P.A. SENATE CANDIDATE: Two men sleeping together, two men holding hands, two men caressing, that is not normal.

If love is the litmus test, who are we to say, well, your love is legitimate love, same-sex couples, but your love, father and daughter, is not legitimate. Or your love, one man and three women is not legitimate. Or one older man and a 12-year-old child. If love is the litmus test, it becomes a very slippery slope. And that is where we find ourselves today.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Also, in 2015, Barnette attack transgender and Olympic champion Caitlyn Jenner as quote, "deformed" and quote "demonic" and warned of a quote "takeover" by the quote "homosexual agenda." It does not stop there, of course, Barnette also frequently shared the insane conspiracy theory that former President Barack Obama is a practicing Muslim.

Here's just a sample of some of those past tweets with phrases such as "He's a Muslim," "Muslim Obama" and "Don't we get it? Obama is a Muslim."

And in a speech uploaded to YouTube in 2015, Barnett argued it was OK to discriminate against Muslims and compared rejecting Islam to rejecting Hitler's or Stalin's worldviews.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARNETTE: You are not a racist, if you reject Islam or if you reject Muslims, because they are not a race of people. They are a particular view.

There are people that have a particular view of the world, and we have a right to discriminate against worldviews. We discriminated against Hitler's Nazi Germany view of the world, right? That was a world view. That's how he saw the world around him, and we discriminated against it. We rejected it.

We rejected Stalin's view, communist view of the world, right? Because that's a particular view of the world that we don't agree with.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Just straight up ignorant religious bigotry.

Whoever wins the Republican primary on Tuesday is likely to face off against one of two well-known Pennsylvania Democrats, either current Congressman Conor lamb or current Lieutenant Governor John Fetterman. CNN's Kasie Hunt traveled to York County in southern Pennsylvania to see how the race is shaping up with just days to go.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

KASIE HUNT, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS ANALYST (voice-over): Standing six feet eight inches tall in gym shorts and a hoodie, you'd never assume John Fetterman is a politician, let alone the Democratic front runner for Senate.

LT. GOV. JOHN FETTERMAN, (D-PA) SENATE CANDIDATE: Your county -- is your county of blue County?

HUNT (voice-over): Greeted like a celebrity at a local bar here. The tattooed Pennsylvania lieutenant governor is the heavy favorite to win Tuesday's Democratic Senate primary here in swing state Pennsylvania.

FETTERMAN: We have to flip the seat.

HUNT (voice-over): That will be tough for any Democrat. Just 33 percent of Pennsylvania voters say President Biden is doing a good job. And because this race could decide control of the Senate, Republicans are prepared to pour in millions of dollars airing attack ads even tougher than the ones he's faced from his own party.

[17:25:10]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Republicans think they crushed socialist Fetterman.

HUNT (voice-over): Fetterman supported Bernie Sanders for president, backs legalizing marijuana and used to call himself a progressive.

(on camera): You did say in 2021, I've run as a progressive before it was cool to do so.

FETTERMAN: Yes.

HUNT (on camera): So, why don't you say running as a progressive now?

FETTERMAN: Yes, because the party has shifted to my platform.

HUNT (voice-over): Democratic opponent, Conor Lamb criticized Fetterman for an incident in 2013 where he pulled a gun on a man who turned out to be an unarmed black jogger. Fetterman has refused to apologize.

REP. CONOR LAMB (D-PA), SENATE CANDIDATE: I just think that's disqualifying for any of us who have to work hard to gain the trust of the Black community.

HUNT (voice-over): Fetterman will have to answer for that and defend himself against Republican attacks on issues like abortion, immigration and crime.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He even wants to reduce jail time for murderers. John Fetterman, too dangerous for Pennsylvania.

HUNT (on camera): You've worked really hard to help --

FETTERMAN: Yes.

HUNT (on camera): -- free people --

FETTERMAN: Yes.

HUNT (on camera): -- from prison. Are you concerned at all that your record on that is going to come back to bite you in general?

FETTERMAN: No. And you know what, if it is, they can bring it on.

HUNT (on camera): Do you think our southern border is adequately secured right now?

FETTERMAN: I've always been a -- an advocate for a secure border, but a compassionate and commonsense immigration reform.

HUNT (on camera): Let's talk about abortion for a second. Do you support any restrictions on abortion?

FETTERMAN: I don't. I've always believed --

HUNT (on camera): Even in the third trimester.

FETTERMAN: I believe that choice is between a woman, her doctor, and a god if she prays the one

HUNT (voice-over): Republicans are guaranteed to use his policy positions against him. And the national mood gives the GOP a clear advantage against any generic Democrat. But John Fetterman is anything but generic.

FETTERMAN: Basic core democratic principles. I don't even think they're democratic. I think they're just universal truths.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Exactly.

FETTERMAN: Universal truth, you know? Can you live on 725 an hour?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.

HUNT (on camera): It seems like some Democrats before you may have seated blue collar voters here in Pennsylvania.

FETTERMAN: Not this campaign. You know, we don't change our message, or we don't pander. But we talk about those core universal principles and values. And we show up in every community, you know, some of the reddest counties.

And now in our hyper divided political world, you know, where it's ultra MAGA or reasonable political beliefs where you can have some mild disagreements. You know, we believe we're going to be coming down on the right side of history and policy. And that's the kind of campaign that we're running.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

HUNT: So, whether Fetterman can win a general election will obviously depend on who he ends up running against, as you outlined. But it's also going to depend on how excited Democrats are going to be to get out and vote for him. Black voters, in particular, are such an important part of the Democratic base in Pennsylvania. And he really may have some work to do there after the attacks from his primary rivals over that 2013 incident with the unarmed black jogger. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kasie Hunt, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Let's discuss. Alyssa, let's go back to Kathy Barnette, who is surging in the polls. And apparently denying that she sent some of the tweets that clearly, she sent and clearly fit in perfectly with things that she has been saying for years that are homophobic and anti-Muslim and bigoted in other ways. Are you worried as a Republican who wants to capture that seat? Are you worried about her getting the nomination?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, FORMER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION UNDER TRUMP: Yes. And what's happening is pretty stunning if you think about it. There's just been so much oxygen around Dr. Oz and David McCormick, and that's where all the focus has been. And then out of left field, this very extremist candidate who frankly makes Oz and McCormick who have run very, very MAGA look almost moderate compared to some of her positions as now surging.

This brings back some memories of the 2010 Tea Party wave where extremist candidates, Christine O'Donnell in Delaware comes to mind, got the nomination of the party, but then ultimately lost.

I mean, Jake, you're from Pennsylvania, you know, the state well. This is a state that has, you know, traditionally had, it's purple in many ways. We forget Donald Trump didn't win Pennsylvania. So running on an extremist far right platform is not a winning message if you're actually trying to pick up a Senate seat.

TAPPER: Ashley, to go to the Democratic side, it's not difficult to anticipate how that 2013 event from Fetterman's past where he stopped that black jogger at gunpoint, how that could be used against him in the general election, at the very least to create some lack of enthusiasm for people to vote for him among the black community or anybody else offended by that action?

ASHLEY ALLISON, FORMER NATIONAL COALITIONS DIRECTOR FOR BIDEN-HARRIS 2020: Yes, absolutely. I mean, the incident in 2013 is a terrible one. The person that he held at gunpoint seems to be innocent. And we don't want those type of incidents to happen with police and innocent people or with citizens and another citizen.

I do think he needs to get ahead of it. Now in the primary, deal with it. It's unfortunate that he doesn't want to apologize even though he's a Democrat. I'm not going to give him up pass on this.

Race is a real -- race is an issue within political races for sure. We saw it come up in 2020 and I think it will definitely come up in his throughout the remainder of the days before the primary on Tuesday but also in the general as well in November.

TAPPER: Alyssa, let's look to Georgia, which that comes that election is coming up as well, not this Tuesday, but in two weeks. Today we learned that former Vice President Mike Pence, he's going to go rally for the incumbent Republican Governor Brian Kemp before the night of the election.

This is a very public split between Pence and Trump because Trump has criticized Governor Kemp for upholding the law in Georgia. He endorsed former Senator David Perdue is running against him and the race. I don't think these two have disagreed so publicly on an issue since hanging Mike Pence.

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, FOMRER WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION UNDER TRUMP: Well, and by the way, Georgia yet another state that Donald Trump did not win in but as meddling in the political race as of yet. Pence is committed to backing incumbent governors including Kemp and campus surging in the polls.

He's an effective governor. He's largely popular within the Republican Party in the state. And David Perdue, somebody who, when he was in the Senate was seen as a, you know, a pro Trump but like a sensible person decided to launch his entire campaign on the big lie. His announcement video, his opening statements in the first debate was basically the election was stolen.

So I'm not surprised that voters are rejecting him. I think it's great that Pence is supporting the incumbent. I think you're going to see more prominent Republicans break with the former president.

I would note in Pennsylvania Mike Pompeo is a big backer of Dave McCormick's, despite the fact that Trump has endorsed Dr. Oz. And listen, all his bearings for 2024. If it turns out that Trump is more of a spoiler and winnable races because he goes more with grievance than with actually smart political endorsements. I think that could really help someone like Mike Pence or Mike Pompeo.

TAPPER: Yes, we also see with former South Carolina Governor Nikki Haley, endorsing Congresswoman Nancy Mace against Trump back to challenger. So you are starting to see a little bit of this, even from strong Trump supporters breaking from him.

Ashley, you worked on the Biden campaign, you know how these races work. What are you looking for in Georgia and Pennsylvania, when it comes to not only how Trump's candidates fare, but voter turnout?

ALLISON: Yes, you know, my job on the Biden campaign was to talk to the broadest coalition possible. And so that definitely means black voters in the state like Pennsylvania and Georgia, but Asian American voters, Latino voters, people who don't necessarily always participate because they aren't spoken to in primaries. People should be knocking on those doors as well. Working class folks, suburban moms, who that -- does not just mean white suburban moms, but people who live in the suburbs.

They really need to build the broadest coalition to get through the primary but definitely in the general because I think both of these races are going to be tight on the governor side as well as in both the Senate race in Georgia as well as the Senate races in Pennsylvania.

TAPPER: Let's start in North Carolina, another states is having a primary soon. There's new CNN reporting about how House Republicans are privately and frankly, some of them publicly rooting for Congressman Madison Cawthorn to lose his race. He's being primary Tuesday.

Alyssa, one of Cawthorn's biggest cheerleaders, former President Trump, he's not exactly coming to conference rescue. I mean, he has supported him. He's made it clear that Cawthron says guy but he could be doing much more. Why isn't it?

GRIFFIN: It's a great question. And Madison Cawthorn, a former intern of mine actually has just had scandal after scandal since being in Congress. And I know actually heard the former president when I was still working for him. You're over a year ago. Say, you know, Madison Cawthorn has the look, he looks like a congressman. That doesn't really carry much weight, though, when you're not actually delivering for the citizens of the District, North Carolina's 11th district that he represents.

Thom Tillis, the senator from North Carolina has come out and back to his one of his opponents. Madison's got an uphill battle here and I have been surprised by Trump's silence on it. But if I had to guess maybe his former Chief of Staff Mark Meadows is getting in his ear that there's somebody else who could be a more formidable pro Trump candidate there that won't be an embarrassment to the party.

TAPPER: Actually, Republicans are preparing for scenarios where Cawthorne does win this primary which is entirely possible. One Republican lawmaker told CNN quote, I met with the guy and said, Don't break the law again. You break the law one more time, I'm going to start calling for you to be kicked out and I don't mean kicked out of the House Freedom Caucus. I mean, kicked out of the Republican Conference voting him out. He's a black guy in our conference.

These are referring references to Cawthron being cited twice for bringing a gun to the airport, getting caught driving with a revoked license for the second time in five years. And on and on. Well, what do you make of this all?

ALLISON: I mean, he's a disaster and I think the Republicans are trying to distance themselves as much as possible because they're going to have issues in their caucus, regardless if they take the house or not.

[17:35:08]

And they don't need a distraction like him trying to run their caucus down. So I think he's a disaster and they're trying to distance themselves from him.

TAPPER: All right, Ashley and Alyssa, thanks for being here. Appreciate it. Have a great weekend to both of you. Coming up. It's a decision that could cause a surge of migrants on the U.S.-Mexican border and now a judge is going to decide if the Biden administration will be allowed to reverse that Trump era rule. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our politics lead, a federal judge just heard arguments on whether to block the Biden administration's plan to end the controversial pandemic era border restrictions known as Title 42 10 days from now.

Now as you may recall, the rules allow Border Patrol agents to quickly return some migrants mostly to Mexico without the opportunity to seek asylum because of the COVID pandemic, more than 20 states have sued to stop the by administration from ending these restrictions.

[17:40:09]

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins us now from live from Lafayette, Louisiana. And Priscilla, the hearing wrapped up a short while ago. You're inside the courtroom for the arguments what happened?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN REPORTER: Well, for more than two hours, Jake, a judge wrestled with whether the Biden administration can end Title 42 in just 10 days. Now, as you mentioned, more than 20 states had filed a lawsuit against the Biden administration's decision to want to terminate this authority and today Arizona Deputy Solicitor General Drew Ensign argued on behalf of the states and those arguments really focused on the harm to the states and the costs they might incur, specifically health care costs, if potentially more migrants are released into the US. And they argued that the administration didn't take the right steps when it terminated the authority. The Biden administration for its part, saying that Title 42 was an extraordinary measure meant for a public health emergency, and that it is entirely up to the CDC director to either invoke or terminate it.

Now, the judge chimes in occasionally mostly focuses questions on the harm to the states, as well as whether the administration took the right steps. But he did not rule instead saying that he would take it all under consideration and rule within the next 10 days before that May 23rd deadline. Jake.

TAPPER: And so discarded because the administration is also warning of a surge of COVID coming up in the fall and winter. But in any case, officials are warning of a potentially record breaking surge of migrants now on the southern border, specifically if Title 42 is rescinded. What do we know about that?

ALVAREZ: The Department of Homeland Security is certainly preparing for that. They're bolstering capacity along the border surging personnel, as well as leveraging partnerships with federal agencies. And they're doing that because they anticipate there's pent up demand and because of deteriorating conditions in Latin America.

But what officials say they're expecting less of is people crossing the border multiple times unlawfully, and that has been happening more often. And it is contributing to the large numbers because there's little to no consequence for repeat crossers under Title 42. That is not the case under immigration law where consequences are levied against those repeat crossers, but again, all of this is up in the air as a judge decides on the fate of Title 42 in the days ahead, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Priscilla Alvarez in Lafayette, Louisiana. Thanks so much. Can 20 years of federal oversight really change how police operate? One American city is about to find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:46:57]

TAPPER: In our national lead now, federal oversight of Oakland, California's embattled police department may soon be over. You might remember back in 2003, federal authorities stepped in and following allegations of misconduct by an anti-gang unit that was accused of planting evidence and beating up suspects. The city ended up paying out more than $10 million to more than 100 plaintiffs following the scandal. No accused officers were ever convicted but one fled prosecution and remains on the run.

Now nearly at -- now after nearly two decades, the judge says Oakland Police have reached quote, substantial compliance in achieving reforms. But as CNN's Josh Campbell reports, residents remain skeptical.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE) JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a notorious time for the Oakland Police Department, officers in the early 2000s accused of racial discrimination, beatings, kidnappings, planting evidence, victims filed a lawsuit.

JOHN BURRIS, PLAINTIFF'S ATTORNEY: It was rotten to the core in many areas, largely because officers were not held accountable. And that leadership turned a blind eye to a lot of these things.

CAMPBELL: As part of an eventual $10 million settlement, the department was placed under federal oversight mandating more than 50 reforms, including officer discipline, training, field supervision, incident reporting, and more.

(on camera): Do you feel today like if you saw something happening that shouldn't be happening, that you would be able to speak up?

OFC. MIA COOPER, OAKLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: Absolutely.

CAMPBELL (voice-over): Officers like Mia Cooper, new to the force are now trained that silence is not an option.

COOPER: Stand up and say something you know.

CAMPBELL: After nearly 20 years of federal supervision, a judge now says that Oversight will in next year if the department can stay the course.

(on camera): Are you confident that Oakland Police today this reform department has the trust of the community that you're sworn to protect?

CHIEF LERONNE ARMSTRONG, OAKLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: I think it is a work in progress. But I think we've taken steps every day to build trust.

CAMPBELL: Chief LeRonne Armstrong, who took over the Department last year points to new officers trained with a new mindset.

OFC. BRIAN WOOD, OAKLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: My name is Brian wood. I'm originally from Sacramento, California,

CAMPBELL: Brian wood has been on the force for two years. He and Mia Cooper are part of a newer generation of OPD officers who have only known the city's current model of progressive policing.

WOOD: Now it's in our DNA, it's not just hey go out there and arrest bad people, it's let's go out and actually serve the community who has empowered us to do that. It's not, you know, what policing was 20-30 years ago.

COOPER: We're a police officer we're just going to go look for this, go look for that stop people pull people now it's like no, let's connect with the community.

CAMPBELL: OPD tells us it carefully screens new recruits. ACTING SGT. DAMON GILBERT, OAKLAND POLICE DEPARTMENT: We need officers that embrace constant training, constant growth, servant spirit, have a heart for the people. If you don't have a servant, spirit, wrong profession. Wrong profession.

CAMPBELL: The results have won over some critics, including John Burris, who filed the original lawsuit against the department.

BURRIS: We don't have the beatings that we used to have. We don't have the shootings that we used to have. One of the big questions is can we maintain these efficiency that we have and I'm hoping they will.

[17:50:03]

CAMPBELL: But not everyone is.

CAT BROOKS, CO-FOUNDER, ANTI POLICE-TERROR PROJECT: I think the people of Oakland should get to say whether or not the police department is ready to come up with federal oversight.

CAMPBELL: Cat Brooks, a community activist says many residents are skeptical that any reforms will stick.

BROOKS: police departments do not want to change. They do not like being told what to do. It was supposed to be a five-year process. And it took 20 years for you to stop beating, racially profiling, mistreating.

ARMSTRONG: I'm sorry that it took so long. And I'm sorry that there was resistance.

CAMPBELL: Chief Armstrong understands the frustration, but says what matters now is the present.

ARMSTRONG: Maybe it took 20 years to get us to this point. But I think we all should be proud of the fact that we are here.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

CAMPBELL: Now, Jake, although with Judge has signaled and approaching end to federal oversight of the Oakland Police Department, there is an important stipulation. The order just signed by the judge will require the department to undergo a one year sustainability period during which time monitoring will continue until next June, to ensure that the numerous reforms instituted by this department will long endure. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Josh Campbell thanks so much for that report. Appreciate it.

Extreme weather across the country how climate change is destroying homes right now. That's next. Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:55:38] TAPPER: Now to our Earth matters series, the climate crisis is here and brought another week of extreme weather across the United States. Giant flames burning down a wealthy community in California due to drought. Intense wind gusts in the Midwest, creating this wall of dust that stretched across parts of Iowa, Nebraska and South Dakota.

Let's bring in CNN chief climate correspondent Bill Weir. Bill, let's start with the fires in Orange County, California and entire neighborhood caught on fire. Have you ever seen anything like this?

BILL WEIR, CNN CHIEF CLIMATE CORRESPONDENT: Well, this one was so strange, Jake, because of the time of year, it's way too early for this sort of thing to happen. Usually this happens during the Santa Ana's in the fall. These are only maybe 30-mile an hour winds relative to what will be 60-mile an hour winds later. But things are so tender, dry.

And even though it was only a couple 100 acres small relative to the big, mega, giga fires we've seen recently, those few 100 acres held some of the most expensive homes in Orange County. There's nobody -- is immune in what officials out there say there's no longer a fire season because that would imply that there's not a fire season. That's not California anymore.

TAPPER: There's not just fires burning on the West Coast. There's also this wall of dust that got stirred up in the Midwest, what caused that?

WEIR: Well, they're known as haboob. That you know, the term actually came originally from the Sudan dust storms that used to see but now they see him in Arizona and now we see them in the Midwest due to this drought. So dry in Nebraska, South Dakota, western Iowa that it kicked up this wall of dust, but also in Iowa.

And the same week, a derecho, which is a really long line of thunderstorms like 60 miles wide, 240 miles long, almost 60 mile an hour winds. So they're covering everything in the glossary. And that's not a good omen heading into planting season there, you know, in the heartland.

TAPPER: Continuing in our end of times checklist here in North Carolina's Outer Banks, rising sea waters engulfing houses sitting on the coasts, it could we be seeing more of this from storms, homes just falling into the sea.

WEIR: Well, you know, this is the Outer Banks. This is a barrier island, which moves naturally, it's moving faster as the seas rise there, which makes them more unstable as well. This home was sold just maybe less than two years ago for almost $300,000. The neighbor next door lost his home in the same way, didn't even get a chance to sleep in his house. He just purchased it a few months ago for over $500,000.

But yes, so many beaches on the Atlantic coast are artificial. They're dredged up and sand is pumped in order to keep property values high. So those communities that can't afford to do that may be the first ones we see on the mainland with scenes like this. But that's one of three houses already this year, and there's a dozen more condemned, and they're worrying about there in Cape Hatteras.

TAPPER: And of course, this is happening all over the world. Tell us about the triple digit temperatures in Pakistan.

WEIR: Yes, this was so interesting. So the numbers came out April was actually the coolest in the North America for the sins of five years or so. But Pakistan is the warmest April they've ever recorded. And as a result that's melting glaciers at a staggering rate enough to burst these sort of sudden glacier outbursts.

They're known as yakulap (ph) in Iceland usually warmed up by, you know, volcanic activity, but this is, you know, the manmade climate crisis is speeding the melting of these glaciers enough to wipe out a bridge there in Pakistan. The most glaciers outside of the polar region are in Pakistan, and the officials there have identified 30 glacier lakes with communities below that get more precarious, with every drip. Jake.

TAPPER: When you look at all these events together, how do you make sense of it and what do you make of it?

WEIR: It's just -- it's Mother Nature sending us every red light on the dashboard blinking full red. There are incredible ideas out there on how to both adapt and mitigates if everybody would get in the right direction. But it's just going to get worse and worse and worse by little degrees. And I just hope we don't normalize it.

[18:00:00]

TAPPER: All right, Bill Weir, thank you so much. We're not going to normalize it on this show at least. Bill Weir, thanks for being here, to keep us on that program.

Be sure to tune in this Sunday morning CNN State of the Union. My colleague, Danna Bash is going to talk to the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as well as Republican Governor Pete Ricketts of Nebraska and Finnish President Sauli Niinisto. That's this Sunday at 9:00 a.m. noon, only on CNN. Our coverage continues now with Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM." I will see you Monday morning.