Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Jan. 6 Committee Details Ties Between Trump World, Extremists; Officers Attacked By Mob React To Jan. 6 Committee Testimony; Jan. 6 Cmte Details Ties Between Trump World, Extremists; Cmte Details "Profane" Oval Office Screaming Match Between Trump Aides, Lawyers Pushing Fraud Claims; Part Of Uvalde Shooting Surveillance Video Published. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 12, 2022 - 17:00   ET


JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And Ryan, you just caught up with the chairman of the committee, Congressman Bennie Thompson, Democrat of Mississippi, talking about possible future witnesses, including Mike Pence?

RYAN NOBLES, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jake, I think more than anything, what our conversation with Chairman Tom has showed is that this investigation is far from over and that they've not ruled out talking to some of these key witnesses that have been at the center of their investigation. We've known from early January that the committee was very interested in talking to the former Vice President Mike Pence, they'd never formally offered him the opportunity to come in, but they said if you wanted to come in voluntarily, they'd welcome him. Since that time, they've obviously talked to a number of key members of his orbit, his chief of staff, Mark Short, Greg Jacob, his Chief Counsel, we've seen videotape of their deposition.

But Chairman Thompson said after today's hearing, that they would still welcome Mike Pence to come and speak before the Committee and the committee is still actively talking about ways to elicit his testimony. And the other thing he talked about was the possibility of Ginni Thomas still being a witness in front of this committee. Obviously, the committee has in their possession a number of different forms of communication between Thomas and people like Mark Meadows and John Eastman, the conservative lawyer. She was obviously active in her efforts to try and help with the overturning of the election.

Now, some committee members I've talked to are skeptical as to whether or not she was playing a really influential role in all of this, but still, the committee is interested in the role that she was playing. So at this point, they're still open to talking to people even though it does appear that their investigation is heading toward the finish. We know for sure, Jake, they have a big witness coming in this week. And that's Patrick Byrne, who was of course, the Overstock CEO, who was a part of that explosive meeting that was detailed in great specificity during today's hearing. So more than anything, the investigation continues. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Ryan, thank you so much. Today's testimony concluded with a mystery, which potential committee witness did Donald Trump just try to call this week. CNN's Kaitlan Collins has been working her sources. And Kaitlan, a lot of people in the media, a lot of people in Trump world trying to figure out who Vice Chair Liz Cheney was talking about when she noted alleged attempted witness tampering, Donald Trump reaching out to a witness who did not take the call?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, Jake, it raises a lot of questions, a lot of them that we still don't have answered, but it has sent a lot of people in Trump's orbit asking who this could potentially be, obviously guts a huge question for them about which witness this could be. She did try to narrow it down by saying it's not someone that we've seen from publicly so we know it's not someone, for example, like Pat Cipollone, who we saw his testimony used today, it's known that he's a witness. It's not likely someone like Sarah Matthews, who is a Deputy to Kayleigh McEnany, because of course, they've used clips of her testifying. The same with Cassidy Hutchinson and these other witnesses. Liz Cheney specified it was someone that has not appeared publicly. So that raises questions.

But, Jake, I think it's still some big questions about whether or not it's someone that Trump knew is a witness in this investigation. That's going to be something that likely the Justice Department wants to know, given they've turned over this information to them. And of course, what was the intent of that phone call that he placed to them?

And so, Jake, I think one thing you have to keep in mind here is the context of this because of course, Trump is someone who has had questions about witness tampering before. I remember when Michael Cohen, his former attorney, had the FBI raid his home, his office, a hotel he was staying in. At the time, Trump had tweeted, saying he did not believe that Michael Cohen would flip on him in that situation. You later saw Michael Cohen testifying about what he believed were intimidation tactics that were being used by Trump in his orbit. You've seen this with other people, Paul Manafort, others raising these questions about whether or not he is trying to interfere. Of course, Liz Cheney just raised a bunch of questions with that teaser there at the end, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much. A powerful takeaway from the January 6 Select Committee.

Joining us now Congressman Jamie Raskin, calling American carnage. Donald Trump's true legacy as the first President U.S. history to call for a crowd to descend on Washington and block the constitutional transfer of power. And Congressman Raskin joins me now. I want to start where the committee ended today, which is the Vice Chair of the Committee, Liz Cheney -- Congresswoman Liz Cheney, talking about what sounded a lot like witness tampering. Let's roll that clip.


REP. LIZ CHENEY, (R) WYOMING VICE CHAIR, JANUARY 6 COMMITTEE: After our last hearing, President Trump tried to call a witness in our investigation. A witness you have not yet seen in these hearings. That person declined to answer or respond to President Trump's call, and instead alerted their lawyer to the call. Their lawyer alerted us. And this committee has supplied that information to the Department of Justice. Let me say one more time, we will take any effort to influence witness testimony very seriously.


TAPPER: So Congressman Raskin, who was the witness, is that witness tampering and obstruction of justice?


REP. JAMIE RASKIN, (D) MARYLAND HOUSE SELECT COMMITTEE ON JANUARY 6: Well, we'd have to know a lot more about it. The point is that the Committee takes really seriously the ability of witnesses to come in, like Cassidy Hutchinson, and tell us everything they know without fear of reprisal or coercion and so on. So people who have an interest in what we're doing here should not be calling up witnesses to be influencing them. And that's the message that I think the Vice Chair of the committee wanted to put out there today, because there's been a pattern of this happening. And we don't accept it. I mean, witness tampering is a crime in the District of Columbia. It's a crime in federal law, and it's a form of obstruction of justice, it's a way to try to, you know, gerrymander the outcome of a legislative hearing or judicial hearing.

TAPPER: You told the Justice Department about it. Do you want the Justice Department to investigate not just this, but all the other examples of alleged witness tampering or obstruction of justice that you've heard about and that you've presented to the American people?

RASKIN: I mean, the main thing is we want it to stop. Well, you know, I'll leave it to the Department of Justice to decide where to take it from there. But we just can't have this. It's a ridiculous pattern. And we also want it to be clear what the law is on it. You know, we don't want someone coming back later saying, oh, I didn't realize that I couldn't try to influence a witness' testimony. Of course, ignorance of the law is no excuse whether you're talking about witness tampering, or obstruction of justice, or seditious conspiracy. You can't say, oh, I didn't know that law existed. Therefore, I'm not guilty of committing the crime.

TAPPER: I'm not a lawyer, as opposed to you. But let me just ask, there does appear to be a more sophisticated way of controlling these witnesses going on here, which is that Trump world, one way or another is paying for the attorneys for many of your witnesses. And my understanding is, at least based on some of the messages that Cheney shared, is that Donald Trump is getting the transcripts and reading them. And messages are being conveyed to these individuals who have lawyers funded by Trump world, isn't that -- that's not a crime, obviously, but it's certainly a conflict of interest?

RASKIN: Yeah, a number of witnesses have had to leave their original lawyer --

TAPPER: Cassidy Hutchinson is an example of one.

RASKIN: Cassidy Hutchinson is an important example of one who decided to get a new lawyer and then to come back and to testify. And obviously, if there are witnesses out there who believe that their lawyer is working cross purposes with their obligation to tell the truth, they should work to rectify it. But we know that there are lots of great lawyers out there who are available to represent people.

TAPPER: One of the most shocking parts of today's hearing of was reading these text messages between two Trump campaign officials, Brad Parscale and Katrina Pierson, written on the day of the insurrection. Let's roll that clip, if we can.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Parscale said, "This is about Trump pushing for uncertainty in our country, a sitting president asking for civil war." And then when he said, this week, "I feel guilty for helping him win." Katrina Pierson responded, "You did what you felt right at the time, and therefore it was right." Mr. Parscale added, yeah, but a woman is dead. And yeah, if I was Trump, and I knew my rhetoric killed someone. When Ms. Pierson replied, "It wasn't the rhetoric." Mr. Parscale said, "Katrina, yes, it was."


TAPPER: Do you agree? Did Donald Trump's rhetoric result in the deaths not only of, I assume that was a reference to Ashli Babbitt. But -- and there were other Trump supporters who died that day on the scene, but also Officer Sicknick, the other officers who died by suicide in the following days, whether they had TBI, or PTSD or whatever. I mean, do you think Donald Trump's rhetoric is what led to this loss of life?

RASKIN: Well, I mean, it's a complicated question, because, you know, causation can have a meaning in the legal context, and in the moral and political context, and we're not prosecutors. But in the moral and political context, I would say that the language that leaders use is of essential importance in a democracy. And that's why I found the testimony at the end from Mr. Ayres and Mr. Van Tatenhove so powerful. I mean, Mr. Ayres is the guy who comes forward and says, I'm a regular American family man. And I follow the word of the president. I trusted him. Trust knew -- I mean, Donald Trump knew that it was a lie that he had won the election. He'd been told that by the Attorney General the United States, we told them it was BS. He was told it by his own campaign people. He was told it by the White House Counsel, but Trump was turning around and telling his followers that he had really won the election. I mean that's a massive deception and it's a betrayal of people.


And it was painful to watch Mr. Ayres talk about how he believed that lie and what it's done to its -- to his life. It's turned his whole life and his family upside down. He lost his job because of Donald Trump. You think Donald Trump cares about that? You think Donald Trump cares about Sergeant Gonell, who now can't be a cop because of the injuries inflicted on his foot and his shoulder and his hand? You think he cares about Officer Hodges, who basically got tortured in front of the entire world, or Officer Fanone or Officer Dunn. Now, he walks away from it. And he walks away from his own followers too, many of whom are in jail today, because of the rhetoric, the lie that he spread, and the incitement that he caused.

So could you prosecute him for this or that? Look, that's for the Department of Justice to say, but in a moral and political sense, using common sense, which is what Thomas Paine asked us to do, would people say that any of this would have happened without Donald Trump? I don't think so.

TAPPER: So lastly, I just want to give you an opportunity to respond to criticism from Ambassador John Bolton, Donald Trump's National Security Adviser who was here, and he took issue with something you said during the hearing. Let's roll that tape and let you respond.


JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think the committee, some of the members of the committee are going too far. Congressman Raskin, at the end of the hearing today, talked about the Republican Party having a problem of authoritarianism that is flatly wrong, not to mention insulting but flatly wrong. And what he's trying to do is use Trump, about whom I'll just say it again, I have nothing good to say, he's trying to use Donald Trump to anathematize the rest of the Republican Party, and that's unacceptable.


TAPPER: Your response?

RASKIN: Well, first of all, I'm glad to hear Ambassador Bolton denounced authoritarianism. So that's good news. But I think he's being a little too clever, if he says that Donald Trump is just one guy, he happens to be one guy who is the leading candidate within the Republican Party. And there are now hundreds of people running for office in the Republican Party across the country and running for party office across the country, who are still claiming that Donald Trump won the election. So that is on the pathway to authoritarianism.

I invoked the authors of how democracies die. And they have said that the hallmarks of authoritarian parties are, one, they deny that they have lost an election. They refuse to accept the results of democratic elections if they don't go their way. And, two, they embrace political violence or refused to reject it. So if Ambassador Bolton thinks that those positions are anathema within the Republican Party, great. I'm afraid they're gaining currency in the Republican Party.

TAPPER: Congressman Raskin, thanks so much for being here. And mazel tov on your amazing daughter's engagement. That's some good news for you during a tough few years.

RASKIN: Your kind of say we're very excited about it.

TAPPER: Yeah, she looks very happy over there. Thanks so much for being here.

Still ahead, officers who were attacked by the mob share their take on today's testimony, including Sgt. Aquilino Gonell who was recognized during an emotional moment during today's hearing. Stick around.



TAPPER: And welcome back to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. Today, the January 6 Select House Committee zeroed in on the connection between members of Trump's orbit and extremist groups who were part of the violent mob at the U.S. Capitol. The hearing also included testimony from a rioter who pleaded guilty to illegally entering the Capitol on January 6, saying he only went there because Trump directed him to four officers who were attacked by rioters that horrible day, join us now after attending today's hearing. Aquilino Gonell, you call me said, I should call you Aqui. Aquilino Gonell is a U.S. Capitol police sergeant and former Army Staff Sergeant, Michael Fanone is a former Member of the Metropolitan Police Department here in D.C. and a CNN Contributor Daniel Hodges is a D.C. Police Officer and Harry Dunn is also a U.S. Capitol Police Sergeant.

So I have so many questions for you four, I want you guys every time, you're at the hearing every day, or every time there's a hearing and I just wonder what you're thinking. But Aqui I want to start with you. Because Jamie Raskin, Congressman Raskin had a moment at the end of the hearing, that was very emotional for all of us, and you as well, if we could play that.


RASKIN: Sergeant Gonell, we wish you and your family all the best. We are here for you. We salute you for your valor, your eloquence and your beautiful commitment to America. I wonder what former President Trump would say to someone like Sgt. Gonell, who must now go about remaking his life. I wonder if he could even understand what motivates a patriot like Sgt. Gonell.


TAPPER: The context of this obviously is a doctor has just told you that your injuries from January 6 shoulder and foot injuries I believe are too severe for you to continue being a police officer?

SGT. AQUILINO GONELL, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: Yeah, one of the things that are given the severity of my injuries, I had two surgeries, one in my foot, one in my left shoulder. And I had gotten to the maximum recovery. The issues that are remaining are lifelong injuries, I had to learn how to live with them. Some angles or rotation in my shoulder hurt more than other. So it's an adjustment to my -- for myself. And one thing that I don't want to do is respond to and seeing if there is a call and not being able to help my fellow officer or put myself all their safety in danger by not being able to make that split decision, action that requires me I had this injuries.

TAPPER: You know what you're going to do next?

GONELL: No, at this point, I haven't thought out that far yet. I'm still processing the new information that -- TAPPER: Like a desk job or an executive that you could take?

GONELL: Currently I am doing a desk job up with the Capitol Police, so up to OPN and Department of Labor, how fast they process my application for retirement. But it is recommended both my mental health treatment provider and also the two doctors that I have for my other injury physically.


TAPPER: You keep in touch with us about this, because we have your back here. You know, and even if some other people that you protect it that day, don't think we do. And we're going to make sure that you get the justice and the care you need.

GONELL: Thank you.

TAPPER: I want to ask you, Officer Hodges, Stephen Ayres, who was charged with a crime on January 6, and seems somewhat repentant today during his testimony. He came up to all of you after the hearing, what did he have to say? And what were you feeling when he did this?

OFC. DANIEL HODGES, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE: He came up to all my colleagues, I was the last one. And they were all the bigger man and shook his hand. And so there was some peer pressure there to be the bigger man.

TAPPER: Did you shake his hand?

HODGES: I did. Well, first, I asked him if he was sorry for what he did. And he said, he answered in the affirmative. And I said, I hope so. And I shook his hand, because you have to believe that there are people out there who can change, and you have to be willing to forgive those people. Because if you de-incentivize the return to rationality, then this culture will never end.

TAPPER: Yeah. And there does seem to be something going on here, Officer Fanone, where the committee is trying to give an offering for people who believed these lies put forward by Trump and McCarthy and all the others and allowing them to be portrayed in a way as victims to that must be weird to experience giving what you went through that day?

MICHAEL FANONE, FORMER OFFICER, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: No, I mean, I understand it. I was a Trump supporter myself, 2016, I voted for Donald Trump. I took the off ramp a lot sooner than those that came to the Capitol on January 6, but I also recognize the fact that the vast majority of those that were there, while I certainly wouldn't call them peaceful protesters, they didn't necessarily have the same violent interactions with law enforcement that that many did have. And, you know, that the -- their, I guess, reasoning or rationale behind going to the protest had to do with being lied to by their -- by their political leaders.

TAPPER: Yeah. Not just their political leaders, Harry, also some in the media, right? The conservative media, Trump's importing media, and you still work on Capitol Hill, you still protect people who not only don't back the blue when it comes to you four and your colleagues that day, but who in some cases, smear you and your colleagues?

OFC. HARRY DUNN, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: I'm not going to let anybody take the joy, or the reason why I became a police officer, I'm not let anybody take that away from me. I'm able to hold my head up high, and look anybody in the face and go on any network and sit down in any meeting. Because I know that what I'm doing is right. And I know that what I'm speaking is true. I don't have a reason to hold my head down about anything. So I'm going to continue to do my job that I signed up for, because I believe in what I'm doing so.

TAPPER: Yeah, and that includes defending people who are horrible people. One of the things that happened during the committee hearing is they made a very clear line between Trump's tweet coming to the Capitol on January 6, will be wild. And the response that directly put targets on your back or on your front in some cases, I want to roll some of that tape and get your response.


RASKIN: Others realize that police would be standing in the way of their effort to overturn the election. So one wrote, I'm ready to die for my beliefs. Are you ready to die, police? Another wrote on, cops don't have standing if they're lying on the ground in a pool of their own blood?


TAPPER: What was it like to hear that?

GONELL: Terrifying. Because just like they were saying that we didn't have standing, we did have standing. We stood up to the assault to the point of risking my life for it. Not only myself, but the other officer prior these gentleman's coming to our rescue. Before I was done there with Hodges, I didn't know him at the time, but he was fighting it, it was from the lowest tears.


And then he -- when we retreated back into the tunnel, he would like two person behind in front of me. And I also was getting trampled. Then laid on like an hour later, I see the Fanone, he relieve me. At that point, it has been almost three hours, two hours fighting. And when he -- Trump tweeted about Mike Pence, that's when the whole rioter or the mob intensifies.

TAPPER: That's how it got worse after that?


TAPPER: Yeah, so you know, he could not only he made it worse, but he could have made it he better.

GONELL: He could have just say he holds so much influence on those people that time that he could have just say, you know what, this is my bad. This is not what we had in mind. Don't go in, stop. But he didn't.

TAPPER: What about with you, what was your response when you heard that testimony?

FANONE: Well, I mean, the two biggest takeaways that I've had from really all of these hearings has been the fact that violence was the plan all along, that President Trump was aware of the fact that there was going to be violence that day. And so was his support apparatus. That, you know, they had brought these groups, the Proud Boys, Oath Keepers, Three-Percenter that are violent, anti-government, extremist groups, white nationalist, white supremacist groups, whatever the hell you want to call them. They're not patriotic organizations. These are, you know, militia groups. They were described today by, you know, a former supporter that, you know, are looking to promote these types of acts of violence and commit these acts of violence like they did on January 6.

The other thing that's, you know, my biggest takeaway is how many cowards there were in the Trump Organization. I mean, witness after witness that has come forward and talked about how, you know, insane the Trump White House was unhinged all these words that have been used to describe and yet it's 18 months later and we're finally hearing from these people. Like where was your courage to just say this is crazy, I'm out here. And what you're -- you're going to lose a job, well, I lost my job. I you know, suffered some pretty significant injuries on January 6, and I was willing to come forward and talk about my experience immediately. It's same here sickening.

TAPPER: Well, thank you, all four of you, as always, great to see all of you and thank you for what you did that day and thank you for what you continue to do, really appreciate it.

Coming up, more on today's shocking revelations from the January sixth committee hearing. Plus, we have some breaking news out of Texas, never before seen video of the hallway outside the Uvalde classroom. That's coming up on The Lead, stay with us.



TAPPER: Welcome back to The Lead, I'm Jake Tapper and we continue with today's stunning January 6 committee hearing. If you have not been watching, CNN's Manu Raju was on Capitol Hill with a recap now of today's big hearing, including a breakdown of the shocking testimony about a meeting inside the White House on December 18th, 2020.


PAT CIPOLLONE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: I was not happy to see the people in the Oval Office.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Four days after all 50 states certify the electoral results, Donald Trump convened a tense meeting in the White House, where several top aides engaged in a screaming match of the effort to install him into his second term in office.

CIPOLLONE: I don't think any of these people were providing the President with good advice.

RAJU (voice-over): Former White House Counsel Pat Cipollone, telling the January 6 committee about the December 18th meeting. One of the aides called it unhinged. It involved Trump and election deniers, including Sidney Powell, Michael Flynn, Rudy Giuliani and Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne.

RASKIN: What ensued was a heated and profane clash between this group and President Trump's White House advisers who traded personal insults, accusations of disloyalty to the President, and even challenges to physically fight.

ERIC HERSCHMANN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE ATTORNEY: What they were proposing, I thought was nuts.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN ADVISER: I'm going to categorically describe it as, you guys are not tough enough. Or maybe I put it another way, you're a bunch of pluses.

HERSCHMANN: Flynn screamed at me that I was a quitter, and everything kept on standing up and turning around and screaming at me. And at certain point, I had it with him. So, and I yield back. Either come over there, or sit your FNS back down.

RAJU (voice-over): And during the six-hour meeting that ended after midnight, Trump even suggested naming Sidney Powell a special counsel, even though he was told repeatedly, there was no widespread fraud to investigate.

SIDNEY POWELL, FORMER TRUMP CAMPAIGN LAWYER: The president said OK, you know, I'm naming her that, and I'm giving her a security clearance and then shortly before we left and totally blew up.

CIPOLLONE: I was being (INAUDIBLE) to make you should be appointed anytime.

RAJU (voice-over): The meeting resulted in this draft Executive Order, commanding the Secretary of Defense to see the voting machines.

CIPOLLONE: Can the federal government seize voting machines? That's a terrible idea in the country. That's not how we do things in the United States.

RAJU (voice-over): And within hours after the meeting ended, at 1:42 a.m. Trump tweeted, "Big protests in D.C. on January 6. Be there. We'll be wild." The committee revealing this led to a rallying cry for right wing extremist groups to converge on Washington.


JIM WATKINS, FOUNDER AND OWNER, 8CHAN: When the President of the United States announced that he was going to have a rally, then I bought ticket and when. RAJU (voice-over): Behind the scenes Trump's longtime associate, Roger Stone was in touch with these groups who provided him security.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will be back in January.

RAJU (voice-over): And was included in encrypted chats with the Oath Keepers and Proud Boys. Former Trump National Security Adviser Michael Flynn was also in communications with these groups, according to the committee. And three days after the heated White House meeting, a group of House conservatives met at the White House to discuss how to get Vice President Mike Pence to overturn the electoral results while presiding over a joint session of Congress on January 6th. Cipollone was excluded.

CIPOLLONE: My view is that the Vice President have been -- have the legal authority to do anything except what he did.

RAJU (voice-over): The committee also presenting evidence that Trump plan days before January 6, to order his supporters to march to the Capitol after a speech to the rally that day, including a draft tweet that was never posted. In rally organizers who said POTUS is going to just call for it unexpectedly. Stop the Steal organizer Ali Alexander knew of Trump's plan.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You were going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.

RAJU (voice-over): Trump even adlib in his speech he'd be joining the rally Gore's at the Capitol. While he didn't go, his supporters did and the deadly riot ensued. In the wake of the attack, Trump's former campaign manager Brad Parscale said that Trump's rhetoric may have killed someone. Katrina Pierson responded, it wasn't the rhetoric. Parscale said, Katrina, yes, it was.


RAJU: Now the committee also revealing that there could be also more evidence of potential witness tampering. Liz Cheney, the Vice Chair of the Committee saying that after the last hearing, Donald Trump tried to call a witness who has not yet been seen, and that person declined to answer the question. They alerted their lawyer. The lawyer alerted the committee and Cheney saying that they have told the Justice Department about that but the committee that's been moment, Jake, declining to reveal more details about that call. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju, thank you so much.

Coming up, breaking news in the investigation of the Uvalde Texas School shooting. We're going to get our first look at some of the horrifying hallway surveillance video from inside Robb Elementary School. Stay with us.


[17:42:01] TAPPER: We have some breaking news in our national lead in the investigation into the Uvalde school shooting, which I believe was seven weeks ago today. For the very first time, we're seeing a portion of the surveillance video from inside the hallway at Robb Elementary School in Uvalde. The video is frankly, horrifying. It was just published by the Austin American Statesman newspaper.

This is a four-minute edited clip. It shows a sliver of the police response. This comes ahead of the Texas House committee's plan to show the hour long video to the victim's families and the public on Sunday.

Let's bring in CNN's Rosa Flores. Rosa, walk us through what we're going to see here.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jake, before we show you this video, we need to share with our viewers that this is an edited video produced by the Austin American Statesman. It is about four minutes long. It does not include the full 77 minutes of the account of what happened.

Now, the Austin American Statesman decided to edit out the children, the voices of the children that were in this video and then CNN has decided to edit out the audio of the gunfire. We should be very clear here, this is very graphic video. It could trigger people watching this in our audience. So you have to be very careful if you decide to watch this video.

Now what you're going to see is you're going to see the gunman, enter the school with that rifle. He's going to enter, he's going to make a right go down the hall. There's a child there who's observing all of this. Then the gunman starts and opens fire. Then you're going to see that hallway eventually fill with police officers but the video starts off at the beginning when the gunman crashes near the school.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The kids are running. Get down! Get in your rooms! Get in your rooms!




FLORES: It's difficult to find words following that four minutes. We are starting to get word from families, the families of the victims who have seen this video. They are very upset. Some of them take into Facebook, saying that this is the opposite of what the family wanted. I'm going to quote here, our hearts are shattered all over again.

And Jake, this is -- this video was coming just days before the Texas House Investigative Committee was planning to have a private meeting with the families of the victims to share with them the full 77 minutes of the hallway video, and also a fact finding report and also answered their questions about the investigation. So that's what the families were preparing themselves for, to have that conversation in private, to be able to express their frustrations, to ask questions. And here we are, again, sharing the story of another yet piecemeal account of what happened that day.

TAPPER: And Rosa, as you and I have discussed for the last seven weeks, we need to remind our viewers that the very first thing the police and the politicians did after this horrifying massacre was praised themselves, and how brave they were and how courageous the response was. That was the first thing and it's only because the families and journalists were asking questions that we now have an accurate picture of what happened. Does the committee plan to release this video, the full 77 minutes earlier now that the Austin American Statesman has published this edited version online?

FLORES: You know, I talked to a source close to the committee and this source tells me that they plan to do what they were planning to do, which is release this video to the families first on Sunday in Uvalde. So in their own town, and to answer their questions, and that's what they continue to do. The chairman of the committee Representative Dustin Burrows actually tweeting just moments ago saying -- expressing his disappointment of this leak because they were really hoping to take the families through the entire video and not subject them to yet another edited version of reality. Jake?


TAPPER: All right. Rosa Flores, thank you so much.

Let's discuss with our law enforcement experts and analysts here. Andrew McCabe, let me start with you. It's heavily edited, we have to remind people --


TAPPER: -- the Austin American Statesman edited out the sounds of the children. CNN has taken out the sounds of the gunfire. So as horrifying as that was, the actual video was much worse.


TAPPER: What's your response?

MCCABE: It is hard to characterize this as anything other than a complete disaster. It's a total mess from the crisis response perspective. From the very first moments when police officers arrive on the scene, you see two, maybe three go down the hall, the other four stay, inexplicably at the end of the hall, you know, behind cover.

Even the Texas State Active Shooter Response for School-Based Officers Training that every one of these officers has to have had by this point in time, makes it clear that you take everybody that you have when you arrive on that scene and you go downrange to address the threat. That is not what they did with the bodies they had. And then the mistakes compound from there you see one after another as we watched the video. TAPPER: Commissioner Ramsey, obviously, it is a difficult job being a police officer. And I don't want to pretend that like any one of us here, with the exception of the FBI agent and a police officer, would run into fire. But what's your response when you see that seven beats, four minutes of police not trying to take out this gunman?

CHARLES RAMSEY, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean, I have to be honest, when I first saw that, I was embarrassed. As a police officer, I was actually embarrassed to watch that take place. I mean, it is contrary to everything you've trained to do. And granted is a dangerous job. I understand that.

I've been under fire three times in my career. And so I know it is not a good feeling, believe me, but you do what you have to do. And they did not. I mean, those first officers on the scene in about three minutes, and only two of them or three walked down the hall. Two of them stay back. I don't know what the heck they call themselves doing, stand back that far. You know, two did meet gunfire, OK. But you regroup and you have to go back.

MCCABE: That's right.

RAMSEY: And you have to do what you have to do, period.

TAPPER: That's the job.

RAMSEY: You've got -- that's the job. And, you know, let me remind you, I mean, this is not pro bono work. You get paid to do this and you volunteer to do it. You didn't get drafted to become a cop. It's part of what you do.

TAPPER: And let's remind our viewers, 19 children --


TAPPER: -- and two teachers killed --


TAPPER: -- in this. What was -- first of all, I can't even believe there was actually a moment there where officers was putting on --

RAMSEY: A hand sanitizers.


TAPPER: -- a hand sanitizers so we he did not have COVID.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes. I mean, I -- off air, I was swearing because I literally could not believe what I was watching. I've seen a lot of bad videos. And I don't -- there's a couple takeaways. So one is where the heck is the command authority? Like I'm looking at a lot of guys who look like they're waiting for, you know, a Nike store to open.

Yes, like a (INAUDIBLE), or do we have something better to do? But the second is, of course, the children. Look, we have a proliferation of a certain kind of weapon that is going to kill children, are going to kill people, but children in the schools very quickly. So your standard of success is can I make things less bad as a law enforcement officer? And what we now know is there were shots in the delay time so it wasn't like this was over.

And secondly, we don't know who bled out. We don't know if some of those kids would have survived --

TAPPER: Right.

KAYYEM: -- had they gotten medical care quicker. And that's the frustrating thing. I get it, these weapons are hard but they -- you know, we know what to do when this happens time.

TAPPER: And Carrie Cordero, at one point during the video and officer can be heard saying, quote, they're making entry but they weren't making entry. And remember, initially, we were told all these things that were not true about the -- he was barricaded in, he was locked in. They couldn't get in. It's so infuriating because the police and the politicians in Uvalde had been lying to the parents of these kids for seven weeks.

CARRIE CORDERO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Look, this is clear, there is no excuse. And all of us have worked with law enforcement. I've spent my entire professional career working with and around law enforcement officers. There is no excuse for the holding back. When we look at the timeline that's laid out on the video, this should have been over in three to four minutes.

They were on the premises at least half a dozen officers. And the three-minute mark by four minutes, they were retreating and running away. We don't know what was going on in the minds of those officers who were in the hallway and decided not to act when there were children under gunfire. But from my perspective, every single one depicted in that video should turn in their badge.



TAPPER: What more do you want to know, Commissioner Ramsey? What other questions you have after watching that?

RAMSEY: I tell you that video premiere says it all --


RAMSEY: -- to be honest with you. I mean, they're -- I mean, they just cowardice. I don't know what you want to call it, call it whatever you want. But I'm telling you, that should not have happened like that. It shouldn't. I was a Commissioner for Philly for eight years, I buried eight police officers that were killed in the line of duty. Five of them within a nine-month period, three shot to death two responding to priority one calls.


RAMSEY: I mean, I know what heroism looks like, and that ain't it.


RAMSEY: And you just had four people in your studio here that really did demonstrate what policing is all about. This is an embarrassment period.

MCCABE: And let's not forget that there is a leadership angle to this. We don't know what's in the head of those officers. But we do know some things and when they did finally make entry at one end of the hall, the half a dozen or so standing at the back end of the hall seemed surprised by that. There was no leadership on this scene.

TAPPER: Very distressing. Thanks to all of you. I really appreciate it.

And I'm Jake Tapper. Thanks so much for watching. Wolf Blitzer picks up our coverage with "THE SITUATION ROOM" in Jerusalem for President Biden's visit to the Middle East.