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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Ex-Trump Natl. Security Official, Fmr. W.H. Aide To Testify Thursday; Rep. Pramila Jayapal, (D-WA), Is Interviewed About Incident Near Home, January 6; Rep. Jayapal: "Scary Time For Me And My Family" After Incident Near Home; Thursday's Prime Time Hearing To Focus On Trump's Actions During Riot; Secret Service Says It Has Yet To Recover Missing Text; Sen. Thune: "Could Be" 60 Votes In Senate To Codify Same-Sex Marriage. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 19, 2022 - 17:00   ET



JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The Secret Service put out a pretty defiant statement when the inspector general first made this claim, so that was just nonsense? It was just crap?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, it was one of those things where we -- one of the things we said at the time was that they were talking past each other it seemed.


PEREZ: They were seemed very loyally, letters that were seeming to be talking past each other. And so now we know the definitive thing that they're telling the committee is, we don't have.

TAPPER: So the Inspector General was right, and the Secret Service statement --

PEREZ: Exactly.

TAPPER: -- was misleading. So anyway, the committee met today with former Trump White House aide Garrett Ziegler. He worked for Peter Navarro, then White House economic adviser. Why is Ziegler's perspective, why is his story important to the committee?

PEREZ: Well, he was key -- he was a key member of the group that was trying to push the former president to hear out this idea to appoint Sidney Powell as a special counsel to investigate vote fraud, essentially. And so, he was one of the persons who was at that, what people call, an unhinged meeting in December of 2020. And he is obviously somebody who was sympathetic to this idea that the former president was not being served by his lawyers, by people inside the White House who are telling him this is not legal, this is not how you do things.

TAPPER: And finally, just breaking a few minutes ago, Business Insider (INAUDIBLE) issued a Freedom of Information Act request to the Pentagon. And they found out that the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff was finding out about the attack on the Capitol from tweets being sent by me and Phil Mattingly and Manu Raju.

PEREZ: Apparently --

TAPPER: That that was how the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs was finding out about the attack on the Capitol from my tweets.

PEREZ: I mean, look, you tweet well, right? So that's good. But this is not how the Joint Chiefs of Staff should be getting information. And it's clear from these records that were released to Business Insider that, you know, there's a lot of e-mails and messages that they're exchanging as things are going on. And a lot of it is coming from public reporting, which, you know, is sort of gives you a sense of, you know this, this is how the Trump administration was working, especially in those waning days.

We learn also the, you know, there are some redacted messages that, you know, they're talking about fencing. We don't know exactly what exactly Kash Patel, who had been installed at the Defense (ph) Department was interested in there. But again, there's a lot of -- what it draws a picture of, Jake, is and what the committee, I think, you're going to hear from tomorrow is how just nutty things were in those waning days of the Trump administration, as people were trying to essentially say to the president, time for you to go.

TAPPER: Well, I mean, I'm glad the Pentagon was reading our tweets, I guess, although, yes, you'd think they would have better source of information.

Also in our politics lead, a jury has now been sworn in in the contempt of Congress trial against former Trump aide Steve Bannon. CNN's Sara Murray joins us live now from outside the federal courthouse in Washington.

Sara, what do we know about this jury and what's next?

SARA MURRAY, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, things finally got underway. We're sort of a rocky start this morning, but they did finally see a jury of 14, that includes two alternates. It's a mostly white jury. It's nine men, it's five women.

And then pretty quickly after that both sides moved into their opening statements with the government arguing, you know, what we've heard them argue over and over again in court that Steve Bannon got this subpoena, that he was required by Congress to respond to it, that he was required by Congress to comply. And they said, you know, this is not a situation of someone getting caught on a metro. This is someone who refuse to comply with the subpoena, Jake.

TAPPER: And Sara, we were hoping to get a glimpse at Bannon's defense tactics today. Tell us about that.

MURRAY: We did. We got a glance, you know, part of that is because the judge has excluded a lot of these potential defenses that Steve Bannon could make. But the the clear argument his attorneys were making in their opening statements was that there was no real hard and firm date related to these subpoenas. They're saying that Steve Bannon's attorney was still talking to, you know, lawyers for the House committee, that they were in negotiations. And so, you know, Steve Bannon just walk away from that believing that the date of this was in flux. Bannon's attorney said, there was no ignoring the subpoena.

TAPPER: All right, Sara Murray, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Joining us now to discuss, Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal of Washington State. She's also the chair of the Congressional Progressive Caucus.

We have a lot to cover here, Congresswoman. But first, I want to ask you about this horrible incident you and your family went through that's been reported. An armed man was arrested near your house in Seattle. Allegedly he was threatening you and your family. You told a different network that he's been stalking you for months.

First, how are you and your family doing? And second, how did we get to this point where political violence is so commonplace?

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA), CHAIR., CONGRESSIONAL PROGRESSIVE CAUCUS: Well, Jake, it's been a rough couple of weeks, I'm not going to lie. And I feel like I'm spending an enormous amount of my time just trying to assure my personal safety even as I try to do the work of Congress here, and I am doing the work of Congress. But this larger point that you're making is so critical.


This is not about a single vote I took, this was a racist, sexist, violent, extremist attack outside my house. And it could happen to anybody. And in fact, we've seen the number of violent extremist attacks against elected officials going up higher and higher. And I think we just have to be clear that, you know, this kind of violence, I believe, has been unleashed over the last six years, because it was always there that there was racism, white supremacy, all of these things. But when you have the person in the highest office of the land also working with white supremacist groups, encouraging violence at rallies, using legislative tools, like bands to, you know, push out people and make them otherwise, it is a huge problem.

And it is very difficult to roll back some of this. So this is a national problem. And it's not unrelated at all to January 6 where, you know, I was trapped in the gallery. This is all part of the same extremism that is facing our country today and makes it difficult for us as elected officials not to have people protesting us or disagreeing, I've had a lot of that, Jake, this was entirely different, vitriolic hatred that was coupled with a person with a gun right at my door.

TAPPER: Let's talk about January 6 in the investigation, because that house committee is still digging and finding new evidence even as they prepare a report on their findings. Do you feel like they will be rushing to publish a report that will ultimately be incomplete just because they want to finish it before Republicans, you know, possibly take over Congress and kill the committee? JAYAPAL: Well, I think it's important that they get out as much as they can. But also important that we understand that with every hearing, we are finding a new jigsaw puzzle piece that is putting together the whole and there's more and more people coming out of the woodwork, which, thank goodness, for, you know, some brave people like Cassidy Hutchinson and others who have shown the model of what it looks like to stand up for country over party. So, I am hopeful that even tomorrow, which is going to be a difficult hearing, but a very important one for many of us, that when we see the report, it's not going to be the final word, because if more information comes in, they will continue to do that work. And I think it's important that the DOJ quickly step in and actually bring accountability around Donald Trump and his attempted coup.

TAPPER: What do you make of the U.S. Secret Service not able to find those deleted text messages from January 5 and January 6. They gave 1000s of documents to the committee today, but not those ones from their agents. They say they haven't been able to recover them. Do you buy it that this was just about a transfer of new, I guess, it was in new phones or whatever?

JAYAPAL: I don't want -- look, I want to believe them, but I also think the problem now is that the institutions have been corrupted. That we have people within these institutions who were part and parcel of all of these attempts, many of whom have been courageous and stepped forward and said, you know what, I got pulled into this, I don't want to be a part of it. But there are still a lot of people out there who are still sort of parts of this. So, I hope that it's just a mistake, but it's a difficult one, Jake, to imagine is just a mistake or an oversight that happens to focus on this very important set of text messages. And that is a big problem within the Secret Service institution.

TAPPER: Let's turn to a major vote today that could codify the legal right to a same sex marriage. Senator Ted Cruz is out there saying that he thinks that should be overturned by the Supreme Court next that ruling. Senate Minority Whip John Thune says there could possibly be 60 votes in the Senate to codify Obergefell. Are you surprised?

JAYAPAL: Well, let's see if it happens. If it does fantastic. This is a right that needs to be codified.

You know, I'm the mom of a trans kid. You know, I'm big on these issues of people being able to love who they want to love and marry who they want to marry. And so, if there are 10 Republicans in the Senate who are willing to do this, I don't know why they haven't stepped forward before. But great if that's what's going to happen.

I just would want to see that because I think the Republican Party has laid out a very clear agenda that was outlined by Clarence Thomas, now by Ted Cruz, by others, by the governor of the state of Texas that they want to strip away all these rights that have been codified. And so, if we can pass it in the Senate, fabulous, but let's put some accountability there to the Republicans and see if we can.

[17:10:00] TAPPER: You and the Progressive Caucus got a lot of heat during the period of time when you said you didn't want to delink the infrastructure bill from Build Back Better, because you thought you were skeptical that Joe Manchin and maybe some others in the Senate, were going to go along with Build Back Better. Ultimately, I assume you feel that you have been proven correct. Is there any chance that something still could get through even in terms of just lowering prescription drug prices by allowing Medicare to negotiate?

JAYAPAL: Well, you know, unfortunately, even that provision, as it's written is far less than allowing Medicare to negotiate prescription drug prices. It's not what we put into the House bill.

But I will just say this, Jake, I worked in really good faith. And despite the Senate and every Democrat in the Senate plus Republicans sending us the infrastructure bill, all the pressure that we were under, the Progressive Caucus held the line multiple times until we did pass both bills. We passed both the Build Back Better and infrastructure. But I realized when one senator from West Virginia went on Fox News and pulled the plug after he had given a commitment to his own president of his own party, that that is somebody that unfortunately does not want to or cannot close a deal. And that's I think, what we've seen all these months later.

So, I'm not holding my breath. Of course, I would love to see something significant come over. It should include the health care subsidies, real prescription drug pricing, negotiation and covering people in states that didn't expand Medicaid, it should include the insulin, these were all things that were taken out. So let's see where we get to. Let's see if there's actually something that comes over and whether it's worthwhile and will actually reduce costs for the American people.

TAPPER: Democratic Congresswoman from Washington, Pramila Jayapal, thank you. And let me just say on behalf of my staff, all of us here at CNN and all of our viewers, I'm sure, we're so sorry, that that happened to you and your family, but we're so happy that you're OK.

JAYAPAL: I really appreciate, Jake, very, very much. Thank you.

TAPPER: We're with you. We're with you.

JAYAPAL: Thank you.

TAPPER: Coming up, what we're likely to hear from the Trump White House insiders slated to testify Thursday. Two people who know the witnesses names very well will join me next.

Plus, 112 days until November's midterm election, but who's counting. What Democrats are getting wrong that may put their House and Senate majorities in jeopardy, I'll speak with a woman whose resume includes 20 campaigns. Oh my God. Who's that?


[17:16:23] TAPPER: And we're back with our politics lead in the intense focus on three hours and seven minutes of American history. Thursday's likely grand finale hearing for the January 6 select committee will spotlight those moments featuring live testimony from two Trump White House officials, former Deputy Press Secretary Sarah Matthews and Matthew Pottinger, who served on the National Security Council. Let's bring in Maggie Haberman of the "New York Times" and CNN's Kaitlan Collins, the chief -- trying to think of your title. No, it's Chief White House Correspondent, but I was going to call you senior and then I was -- you're going to remind me that you were chief. So that's why I was thinking, what's the title, what's the title?

Anyway, Maggie, you have a piece out today about these witnesses. Why are they the best people to make the case for this critical prime time meeting about what Trump was doing or rather not doing while the Capitol was under siege?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "NEW YORK TIMES": So Jake, both of these witnesses Sarah Matthews and Matt Pottinger resigned on January 6. So that's a big reason that the committee is interested in them because they are going to speak to how they reacted to what was taking place.

And what they were reacting to, in both cases is said to be inaction that they are going to describe. In Sarah Matthews' case, it's going to be inaction on the part of Trump issuing a statement and saying anything to try to get the supporters of his who had swarmed the Capitol and were rioting and threatening the vice president to go home.

And in the case of Matt Pottinger it is going to be, you know, that he alerted Mark Meadows. As we understand that he has told the committee that he alerted Mark Meadows that in the 3:00 hour that the National Guard was not yet there, not yet at the Capitol or on the scene. And Mark Meadows relayed that he had contacted multiple times Defense Department official trying to make that happen and it still hadn't happened. And so I think all of that is going to be key to filling in this timeline that has been, Jake, something of a black hole.

TAPPER: Yes. Matt Pottinger, fairly respected national security --

HABERMAN: Oh, yes.

TAPPER: -- official. Used to be a Wall Street Journal reporter, I believe.

HABERMAN: Used to be a Wall Street Journal reporter, had a focus on Asia. He was around this White House constantly. He is going to be heard for Trump to dismiss as, you know, a coffee boy or someone who barely knew --

TAPPER: No, he'll try anyway.

HABERMAN: Yes, I'm sure he will attempt to, but it will be hard to believe.

TAPPER: And Kaitlan, you reported on Pottinger's resignation in real time on January 6, what are you going to be listening for

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think two things will be interesting. One is that they both had proximity in the West Wing on that day, which is obviously the key that the committee is going after. So then people can't try to discredit them and say you're just going off secondhand information or you heard what your boss who's a lawmaker said. Matt Pottinger was in the West Wing that day, he went to the Oval Office to speak -- to try to speak to Trump, ended up speaking to Mark Meadows.

Sarah Matthews, she's not a household name, but she was a deputy to Kayleigh McEnaney, and she sat right outside of her office. And of course, Kayleigh was one of the names that day that was going in and out of the Oval Office trying to speak with Trump, trying to get him to put a video out. And so, I think in that way they could potentially be useful.

I also just think with Pottinger, you know, he was one of the few who resigned that day. But it was a conversation that was happening among a lot of people about resigning, high ranking people who did not actually follow through with their resignations. I think it'll be interesting if he sheds light on that. And also conversations on the 25th Amendment, because that is something we are told that he was involved in. It's not clear fully what his role was in that, but it was something that was up for discussion. And so, that's another aspect that I think the committee will be asking you about.

TAPPER: Yes, we heard from -- we learned from the committee that the Education Secretary, Betsy DeVos, was talking about the 25th amendment, although Vice President Pence said he wasn't interested.

Speaking of January 6 and events of that day, these text messages from Secret Service agents that day and the day before, it turns out that the inspector general, the Department of Homeland Security was right and the Secret Service despite defiant denials on Twitter was wrong, they're not there. What do you make of that?

HABERMAN: Well, it's going to raise a lot of questions and we know that the service has told the committee that, you know, they are continuing to search for these texts, that this took place during a migration of services that they were using. We have information that two days before that migration took place in January of 2021, agents were told and staff was told at the service, you know, you -- do your own records retention, if need be, if there's something you need to keep, keep it. That raises additional questions.


And I don't know that we're going to get the answers, Jake, but I can understand why the committee is skeptical of what they're hearing.

COLLINS: I also think following the whole Cassidy Hutchinson testimony about Tony Ornato and what happened with Trump and the Secret Service, it's raised so many doubts about the Secret Service and whether or not, not them collectively but individually, how truthful they're being. And so I think that's another aspect. Maybe it was all aboveboard, but I think people are very skeptical --

HABERMAN: That's right.

COLLINS: -- of the company lines that they're hearing because of what people are learning from the January 6 committee and what people are saying behind closed doors that they were denying fervently to us at the time when we were reporting.

TAPPER: Yes. And I think that's a good point, because I know not only Democrats but Republicans who are convinced. Again, obviously, we're not talking about all of the Secret Service. There -- we're not even talking about most of the Secret Service, but it does seem like there is an element of the Secret Service that was more loyal to Trump than it was to the Constitution. I mean, it does seem sound -- it sounds like there was a radicalized element of the Secret Service.

HABERMAN: That is something that the committee is investigating is whether that's the case, Jake. I don't know that that is the case, I certainly do know that all of these agents end up getting pretty close to the protectess (ph), to the family, to the president himself or herself, whoever they are protecting, because they have to see that person as a human in order to be able to, you know, risk their lives, potentially for that person. But what the committee is looking at is whether what you just said, became the case, were people more concerned about Trump or was there just such a fog of war that day?

To give benefit of the doubt, we don't know. But the Secret Service in its own answers, they have not always been forthcoming. And they're not an agency that is used to having to be forthcoming. So that's the other piece.

TAPPER: Yes. And Kaitlin, we should just point out how unusual it is for a Secret Service agent to be asked to join the political staff of a White House, which is what happened with Tony Ornato, who became -- he went from head of the president's detail to Deputy White House Chief of Staff, which is a political job.

COLLINS: Yes. And if you speak to people who weren't in the West Wing at that time, Tony Ornato was very central to all of this in a way that you have not seen people in that position before be. Central in a way that I mean of West Wing planning. And he was someone that Trump often said, get Tony for me, things like of that nature. That was the kind of nature of their relationship. And I think that's why it's put so much focus on it and so much scrutiny based on what he has said, what Cassidy Hutchinson testified he told her, the denials that have come as a result of that, and it just raised more questions I think that it's answered.

HABERMAN: I think that's true. But I do want to say, Jake, to be fair, I think there has been this question about "yes-men," quote, unquote, and whether some of these agents became that. What we know what those agents did on January 6, anyway, was tell Trump, we're not taking you to the Capitol.

TAPPER: Right. HABERMAN: That is not a yes-men. That is somebody saying no to something that we know that Trump raised not just that day, but several days before that. And so, I just think that that's -- for the totality --

TAPPER: Absolutely.

HABERMAN: -- of the picture is worth bearing in mind.

TAPPER: Although also worth pointing out, the Vice President Pence was reluctant to get into the car with the Secret Service because he was worried they were going to take him away so he couldn't fulfill his constitutional duty. That's something else. And not that they were going to hurt him but they were going to keep him from doing what he needed to do to certify the election.

COLLINS: Because their priority is protecting him. And obviously being in a situation where there are rioters descending on the Capitol, the Secret Service's first job is to get you out of that, take you away from it.

It's been a fight with presidents before and situations, natural disasters for presidents want to go, Secret Service agents say it's not safe, this is a situation where Pence's staffs at this time because they had concerns about the service --

TAPPER: Right.

HABERMAN: That's right.

COLLINS: -- they did not want to do what their recommendation is.

TAPPER: They should all come forward and testify publicly under oath like Cassidy Hutchinson did instead of just whispering to things that tip to reporters.

Anyway, Maggie and Kaitlan, thanks so much.

COLLINS: We'd like the whispers.

TAPPER: You like the whispers? I like the public testimony, too.

HABERMAN: I like both. How about that?

TAPPER: You can have it both, OK, we agree.

Coming up next, see what it takes these days to escape occupied parts of Ukraine almost five months now into Russia's invasion. Stay with us.



TAPPER: The world lead, Ukraine's First Lady greeted by President Biden outside the White House today, meeting also with First Lady Jill Biden as she looks to highlight the human cost of Putin's brutal war against her country where Ukraine's military says Russia is ramping up airstrikes in southern Ukraine.

Cruise Missiles targeting a village in the Odessa region striking near a school and residential buildings, injuring at least six people including a child, an attack which Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelenskyy says confirms Russia is a terrorist state.

CNN's Ivan Watson reports now on the struggle for Ukrainian civilians desperately trying to escape this war.


IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Trudging down dirt roads, Ukrainians escaping zones of Russian occupation. The invading Russian army closed many routes to Ukrainian controlled territory, forcing people to improvise. Hundreds of discarded bicycles left behind by displaced people who used them to reach the village of Zelenodolsk.

Andrei Halilyuk fled 10 days ago, walking down pads past unexploded landmines.

(on camera): He traveled on foot and then on a rubber dinghy across the river and then on foot again and then in a car and then in a bus to try to get here.

(voice-over): Halilyuk says he lived for more than four months in his village under Russian military occupation.

(on camera): Andrei says that pro Russian militia from Donetsk broke into empty apartments and were living in there, broken into businesses as well. He calls them barbarians.

(voice-over): Since Russia invaded Ukraine, more than 61,000 people fled to the city of Kryvyi Rih where they were all initially welcomed at this reception center. At the center, Maxim Ovchar.

(on-camera): They detained you?


WATSON (voice-over): Ovchar is a medical doctor who lived and worked in the southern city of Kherson, which was invaded and occupied by Russian forces in early March. He says he fled with his grandmother on July 7th, after armed Russian officials tried to convince him and other Ukrainian doctors to work for them.

(on-camera): When you and the other doctors said no, to working with the occupation, how did the Russians react?

OVCHAR: They react the very hateful for us.

WATSON (voice-over): In the first weeks of the occupation, some Ukrainians in Kherson protested, until Russian opened fire. The occupation had since cut off Kherson's communications with the outside world. But the Ukrainian government claims there is local resistance.

OVCHAR: 90 percent of people of Kherson, I mean, near --

WATSON (voice-over): 90 percent of people in Kherson hate the Russians, Dr. Ovchar says. He says he saw Russian troops wounded by a local resistance attack, then brought for treatment at a Kherson hospital.

At the Welcome Center, volunteers organized temporary shelter for displaced Ukrainians.

OVCHAR: I lost my job and --

WATSON (on-camera): Your house?

OVCHAR: My house.

WATSON (on-camera): You have a car?

OVCHAR: Some of my friends I was to say murdered by the Russians.

WATSON (voice-over): The charity provides free food, medicine, clothing and counseling for traumatized adults and children.

We lived well before the war, Dr. Ovchar says. And now I'm ashamed to ask for help.


WATSON: Russia's invasion has forced millions of Ukrainians now to rely on the kindness of strangers. A growing number of Ukrainians that I've spoken to have escaped occupation, have described a pattern of harassment, abuse, public drunkenness by Russian soldiers and efforts to erase Ukrainian identity forcing Ukrainian speakers to speak Russian, for example.

The charity that greets displaced persons here in this city, they say they -- nearly five months into the war are receiving up to 400 new people fleeing Russian occupation in the conflict zone every day. Jake?

TAPPER: Ivan Watson in Ukraine, thank you so much for that report.

A new CNN poll today shows voters and lawmakers own are nowhere near aligned on priorities for America. Coming up next, a political insider with her take on how those differing opinions may play out in the midterm elections. Stay with us.



TAPPER: And we're back with our politics lead, brand new CNN polling focused on the midterm elections. Two-thirds of registered voters said the Democratic candidates for Congress where they live are not paying enough attention to the country's most important problems. Only 31 percent of voters say these Democratic candidates have the right priorities. The numbers are similar.

When you ask about Republican candidates, only 33 percent of voters believe they are focused on the right issues. These results should sound alarm bells for both parties, especially among Democrats who were already facing an uphill battle to maintain control of Congress in November.

Let's bring in Lis Smith now, she's a veteran of 20 different Democratic campaigns probably best known for serving as a senior adviser to Pete Buttigieg's 2020 presidential run. And Lis is also the author of a brand new book called, "Any Given Tuesday: A Political Love Story," which is out now. And first of all, one of the best titles of any political memoir ever, "Any Given Tuesday." Explain for our audience who might not get it.

LIS SMITH, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I'm a big football fan. And there's a saying that -- in football, "Any Given Tuesday" that --

TAPPER: Any given Sunday.

SMITH: Any given Sunday.

TAPPER: Right.

SMITH: Any given Sunday, the worst team can walk out in the field and beat the best team. Best team can walk on the field and lose to the worst team. And it's not your losses that define you or your wins that define you. And you've got to pick yourself up and have an element of belief and carry yourself on through Sunday after Sunday. And that's how I feel about politics. And that's why I called it "Any Given Tuesday."

TAPPER: So let me ask you, just before we get into your book, because you are a political expert, you've seen these polls, how worried do you think Democrats should be two-thirds of democratic vote? I'm sorry, two-thirds of American voters think they're out of touch on the issues, similar numbers of Republicans, but Democrats can currently control the House and Senate.

SMITH: Well, they should make Democrats concerned. But right now, the problem is that Democrats are facing a situation where it's a referendum against Democrats. We need to change this into a choice election. I write about this in my book. How? In 2012, you know, Barack Obama was written for dead. You cover that race, however.


SMITH: You and I were in contact then. And what he did was take it from a referendum on his record, and use the election to define Mitt Romney and use the most extreme elements of the Republican Party. It was then Richard Mourdock, Todd Akin to hang around the necks of all the other Republicans because of their extreme views on abortion and things like that.


10 years later, those guys are squarely in the mainstream of the Republican Party.


SMITH: And so Democrats need to go on the offensive.

TAPPER: But are they?

SMITH: No, we have not yet been. I do think that the way that primaries are sort of working themselves out, Republicans in race after race are nominating the most extreme candidates. We're seeing that in both gubernatorial and Senate campaigns. And that is a source of hope for Democrats heading into November.

TAPPER: But there could also backfire, right? I mean, I've seen Democrats, Democratic Party packs in the like, finding the most extreme Republicans in different races and actually supporting them financially, sending the money in the hopes that that will be an easier candidate for the Democrats to defeat. But like, you look at Pennsylvania right now, Josh Shapiro, the Attorney General, who's the gubernatorial nominee. He's facing this guy, Doug Mastriano that is far out there on a lot of these issues.

SMITH: Right.

TAPPER: But it's going to be a competitive race.

SMITH: Yes. As far out there as they get and, you know, the Republican Governors Association has equivocated on whether they'll even support him. But where I disagree with you is that I think that Mastriano would have won the primary regardless, I think.

TAPPER: He thinks that's likely true. Yes.

SMITH: Yes, yes, yes, yes. And to be clear, Mastriano is someone who stormed the Capitol on January 6, bus people to the Capitol on January 6, opposes abortion in all cases, and he's emblematic of the extremism we're seeing in the GOP gubernatorial nominees. They deny the 2020 elections. And we know that if a Democrat is elected in their states in 2024, and they're governors, that we will not have free and fair elections.

TAPPER: So let's move on to your book. I think Mastriano was present at January 6, I don't think we know if he went into the Capitol or not.


TAPPER: Just to be precise, anyway.

SMITH: Yes, right. OK.

TAPPER: You told Politico while promoting this book, "Democrats left a bitch that we don't have a bench and you know what their problem is? They're just not looking in the right places". And I know that you like, for instance, you think Mayor Pete, who's now Secretary Pete is an example and others. Why aren't Democrats looking in the right places?

SMITH: Well, I think in both parties, there's a tendency to think that everything revolves around Washington, that everything revolves around what is on cable news, what is on CNN, and it's not.

TAPPER: Well that parts, right?

SMITH: We need to look outside of Washington, because if you look at that poll, you know, a lot of that is informed because people feel like Washington is out of touch with them. And mayors, governors are much closer to where people are. And there's a new generation of leaders across this country. People like Aftab Pureval in Cincinnati, the new mayor, people like Mallory McMorrow in Michigan, people who were becoming new stars that I think, speak to the next generation and aren't tied down in these stupid partisan battles that everyone else in Washington is.

TAPPER: Your book is pretty brutal on former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, who you advised. And one of the things that I wondered was, you were a strong woman advising a governor during a time when he was being accused of heinous behavior --


TAPPER: -- by underlings. And I'm wondering if you could tell our viewers about any ambivalence that that created. Obviously, you have your issues with him, and you make them very clear in the book. But like, did you -- was there ever a moment when you felt like I'm betraying my sex here, my gender?

SMITH: Yes. And it's something I talked about in the book. So he was someone that I loved, I trusted, I viewed as a mentor, I viewed as a father figure, you know, especially, you know, when my father was going through, you know, horrible health problems that led to his death. And so, when he came to me, asked for my advice, and vehemently denied these charges, I believed him.


SMITH: And I think I also wanted to believe him. But I've talked with other women who advised him since and there was a feeling that, you know, we were being sort of used and weaponized because of our gender. And there's a fog of war that comes when you're in the middle of a crisis, right? You don't really have the time to sit back and think and listen to all the alarm bells that are in your head. And that's part of the reason why I wrote this book, right?


SMITH: Because I want people to learn from my successes, right? I've been able to achieve great things with people like Mayor Pete, but --

TAPPER: Secretary Pete.

SMITH: Why succumb Mayor Pete. He's Mayor Pete to me.

TAPPER: But he's secretary.

SMITH: Right. But to learn, you know, when you start to see these red flags hear these alarm bells, all that. So it was disappointing to me but, you know me Jake, you know my history. I'm not a kind of soulless cut and run artists like a lot of people in politics.



SMITH: I've been through crisis myself and I'm someone who runs toward danger rather than running away from it. I'm loyal. But what the Cuomo situation taught me was the difference between earn loyalty and find loyalty.

TAPPER: The book is great. And there's a lot of very emotional stuff about your father. And I know he would be so proud of you and so proud of this book. I just want to leave people with this one thing that you write about how you convinced John Edwards, when you were leading a student group at Dartmouth College, where we both went --


TAPPER: -- although I went there 50 years before you did. And you've convinced staff --

SMITH: Wait, it's only 50 years?

TAPPER: 100 years. You convinced Edwards' staff to have him visit campus. And you write right this. "Here's the thing about being annoying and persistent, sometimes it pays off." And that's true.


TAPPER: That is true advice. And you and I both --

SMITH: I was about to say, I think --

TAPPER: You and I --

SMITH: -- you know what I think about that -- yes.

TAPPER: -- both have proven that. The book is fantastic. It's "Any Given Tuesday, A Political Love Story." It's out now.

Lis Smith, thanks so much for your time. Hope we sold you some books and I'll talk to you soon.

SMITH: Great. Thank you for having me, Jake.

TAPPER: Good to see you.

Coming up next, crime in America and the struggle to get more cops on the street. See just how many officers major cities are lacking as they try to curb a rise in violence. Stay with us.



TAPPER: The national lead for the first time in seven years, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has a permanent director, Steve Dettelbach. He was publicly sworn in today at ATF headquarters. Take a listen.


STEVE DETTELBACH, ATF DIRECTOR: Rising crime, rising firearm violence, rising mass shooting incidents. It's going to take all of us in this nation in law enforcement working together to address those threats.


TAPPER: As CNN's Ryan Young reports for us now, tackling gun violence will be an uphill battle for the Bureau's new leader as police departments from coast to coast are facing critical staffing shortages.


RYAN YOUNG, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More shootings and more 911 calls have police departments around the country struggling to meet the growing need with department stretch then.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kansas City in Annamma (ph) and call taker 22.

YOUNG (voice-over): Heading into a busy summer where calls for 911 Emergency Service spike.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is she threatening or fighting with anybody right now?

YOUNG (on-camera): So not only are you dealing with shortages out there in the field, but in this room?

INTERIM CHIEF JOSEPH MABIN, KANSAS CITY POLICE: The people work here are working long hours, extra overtime to cover other shifts. But we have to have someone else from the call. So it's critical.

YOUNG (voice-over): The worker shortage is already disrupting public safety around the country by causing delays and law enforcement response times and a reduction in detectives working cases.

SGT. JUSTIN PINKERTON, KANSAS CITY POLICE: Where has the American workforce gone? Like -- it's like they just vanished. So and obviously police were not immune to it.

YOUNG (voice-over): And Kansas City Missouri Mayor Quinton Lucas is seeing a shortage across all open jobs, but tells us hiring more recruits in this tough market is a top priority.

MAYOR QUINTON LUCAS, KANSAS CITY, MISSOURI: Things will not be perfect tomorrow. We will not have enough officers tomorrow. But more than anything, that we need to all try to make sure we're helping other folks know that policing is a good path. It is a good pursuit.

YOUNG (voice-over): Law enforcement departments are now offering hiring bonuses as high as $20,000. And some departments have started paying bonuses to keep current officers. In Portland, Oregon, they are short 108 officers. In Dallas, they are short 550 officers. And in Kansas City, Missouri, they are short some 224 officers. While in Atlanta, the new mayor says he has immediate openings.

MAYOR ANDRE DICKENS, ATLANTA: I'm looking for 250 officers and we're finding them. People are answering the call. They're saying they want to serve their city.

INTERIM CHIEF DARIN SCHIERBAUM, ATLANTA POLICE: One of the challenges now is every police department is looking for the same group of talented and motivated individuals that have a heart to serve.

LUCAS: So right now we're looking at military bases, always been a step but also HBCUs. We can't just talk about getting more officers of color. We're going to the campuses, talk to them about policing, about the work that we do.

RYAN TILLMAN, INSTRUCTOR, CALIBER PRESS: But I think what we do sometimes is we like to wait around for the people at the top to change the culture.

YOUNG (voice-over): Caliber Press, a Law Enforcement Training Group is helping teach police departments.

TILLMAN: So we're talking about recruiting today.

YOUNG (voice-over): To reach more applicants.

TILLMAN: I can legitimately go out there and be the change that the community wants to see without anybody having to impress upon me what I need to do.

PINKERTON: That ripple effect of not -- of the workload and stress has been placed on police officers has increased to our current staffing as well as what is applying. So we're kind of in a perfect storm right now.


YOUNG: Jake, that stress is real. On a sad note, we've know of three officers who've died by suicide this month alone in the city of Chicago. And across the country, a lot of off days are being canceled for officers as a deal with a summer crime spike. So many questions, so many departments all in need. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Ryan Young, thank you so much for that report.

Coming up next, today's temporary win for Twitter as the social media network takes on the richest man in the world. Stay with us.



TAPPER: Our tech lead now, a judge ruled today that Twitter's lawsuit against billionaire Elon Musk can indeed go to trial in October. Musk, who pulled out of the takeover deal earlier this month is being sued by Twitter for $44 billion. Let's bring in CNN's Alexandra Field. What else came out of today's hearing?

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Look, this is an early victory for Twitter. They're getting what they want, expedited trial set to last about five days in October. They say it's necessary to speed this along because all of the drama over the deal is already creating chaos and uncertainty for their shareholders. They say this is a straightforward agreement that the richest man on the planet is having a case of buyer's remorse after seeing Twitter's stock prices tumbled since agreeing to the deal back in April.

Musk for his part has said he is pulling out because of a lack of information from Twitter about the number of fake accounts on the platform in SEC filing pegs that number at about 5 percent. Still, his attorneys say they needed more time, they wanted to see the trial start in 2023 so that they could further investigate the number of fake accounts.

Twitter will argue in the upcoming trial, that it doesn't really matter that Elon always knew about the fake accounts. They were a big reason that he said he wanted to take over the company and that they don't affect the deal because they weren't part of the agreement.

TAPPER: Interesting. Alexandra Field, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and the TikTok at JakeTapper. You can tweet the show at TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of the show, you can always listen to THE LEAD wherever you get your podcasts.

Our coverage continues now with one Mr. Wolf Blitzer, he's in "THE SITUATION ROOM". I'll see you tomorrow.