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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Authorities Update Killings Of Four University Of Idaho Students; Justice Department Seeks To Question Pence In January 6 Investigation; America Reels From Second Mass Shooting In A Week; Investigators Give Update On Idaho College Student Killings; Justice Department Seeks To Question Pence In January 6 Investigation; Ukraine: Russia Strikes Maternity War, Kills 2-Day-Old Baby. Aired 4- 5p ET

Aired November 23, 2022 - 16:00   ET



VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: Papa Smurf is returning, the Pillsbury doughboy and one Mr. SpongeBob Square Pants.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN HOST: Papa Smurf is one of my favorites.

BLACKWELL: Yeah, I like Pillsbury doughboy.

GOLODRYGA: OK. We'll be watching around.

BLACKWELL: I'll get up early.


BLACKWELL: THE LEAD starts right now.

GOLODRYGA: Happy Thanksgiving.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: America has had more than 600 mass shootings this year alone.

THE LEAD starts right now.

Tragedy just before Thanksgiving, this time in the break room of a Virginia Walmart. Sources saying the gunman was the overnight manager opening fire on fellow employees. We are live from the scene of yet another heartbreaking shooting.

And sources confirmed the Justice Department is looking to question the former Vice President Mark Pence as its criminal investigation into Donald Trump heats up.

Plus, a powerful moment at the World Cup. How a protest from players spoke volumes without them ever saying a word.


KEILAR: All right. Authorities are beginning an update on the deadly stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students. Let's listen. CHIEF JAMES FRY, MOSCOW, IDAHO POLICE: And every tip will be pursued. So far, this information has helped investigators filled a picture of the areas of interest and the relationships this four had with each other and our community. We still believe there is more information to be gathered, which will continue creating a window to which we view this case.

We all want to understand why this happened. And what drove someone to do this.

The families of those involved in our entire community to serve to know. We ask anyone with any information related to what happened with these four in our community, their interaction with others, and whether they express concern or commented about someone or something strange to get that information to us.

Even if you don't believe it is relevant, investigators will review and determine if and how your information builds the picture. Sometimes, you know, video or pictures doesn't show is equally as important as what might be there. Information on how to submit tips and updates on the investigation can be found on the Moscow police department page, to continue moving forward to understand why this occurred in our community and seek answers to bring justice for the victims and their loved ones because they deserve it.

I personally want to know, we care and we're looking team to work hard to get these answers for these individuals. At this time, I would like to introduce Captain Roger Lanier for an update on what we can currently share about this investigation.


I'm Captain Roger Lanier at the Moscow Police Department. I want to assure you first off that the loss of Xana, Kaylee, Madison, and Ethan remains the highest priority for the Moscow police department. We will continue putting all of our resources into investigating and solving these murders. Investigators are prepared to work through the Thanksgiving holiday to continue their efforts.

I also want to express our sincere appreciation to the Idaho state police, the FBI, University of Idaho, and the Lake Tahoe County's sheriff's department for their assistance. I especially want to thank the community of Moscow for their outpouring of support through this incredibly difficult time.

Today, I'm going to recap in brief what we know. I'm going to provide some new information, and I am going to address some rumors.

On the evening of November 12, and into the early morning hours of November 13, Kaylee and Madison arrived home at approximately 1:45 am after visiting a local bar and a street food vendor. Ethan and Xana were also out into community at Sigma Chi, and they arrived home at approximately 1:45 am.

Two surviving roommates who are also out in the community, arrived home at approximately 1:00 a.m. Later on the morning of November 13th at 11:58 a.m., a 911 call was placed. The call reported an unconscious person.


The call originated from inside the residence and a surviving roommate's cell phone was used.

During that call, the dispatcher spoke to multiple people who were on scene. Moscow police officers responded and found two victims. Two on the second floor, and two on the third floor of 1122 King Road.

The results of autopsies indicated that the four were stabbed multiple times and we're likely asleep during the attack. Some have defensive wounds, and there was no sign of sexual assault.

We do not believe the following individuals were involved: the two surviving roommates, the male seen in a grub truck video circulating on the Internet, a private party who drove Kaylee and Madison home, any of the individuals who spoke to the dispatcher on the 911 call. We're also aware of a male who Madison and Kaylee had called several times the morning of November 13th, and we do not suspect that individual.

Detectives have canvassed the neighborhood looking for evidence, physical evidence, video surveillance, and they've contacted numerous residents to see if anybody may have seen or heard anything. They continue requesting tips. They can be sent to our tip line or called into our tip line.

The specific areas that we're interested in are detailed on maps on our city website and our Facebook page. But as stated earlier, generally, south of Taylor Avenue to Palouse River Drive and the area west of U.S. 95 over to the arboretum.

We have heard mention that Kaylee stated she may have had a stalker. Detectives have been looking into that. And she has pointed been unable to corroborate the statement, although we continue to seek information and tips regarding that report. No suspects have been named or arrested. And we continue looking for what we believe to be a fixed blade knife used in the murders.

We have not released the names of any of the subjects who spoke on the 911 call, and we have not released the call itself. Any online reports of the victims being tied and gagged are not accurate.

Regarding the resources that we have put forth in this investigation, Moscow Police Department has four detectives, 24 patrol officers, and five support staff dedicated to this investigation. The FBI has 22 investigators in Moscow, and 20 additional agencies the site in various locations, as well as two members of the behavioral analysis unit.

The Idaho state police has 20 investigators, a public information team, the forensic services and crime scene team, and 15 uniformed troopers who have been vital in helping to provide community patrols and safety patrols. We very much appreciate their support.

This is our highest priorities. It will remain our highest priority. We owe that to the families.

At this time, I would like to introduce Colonel Kendrick Wills from the Idaho state police.

COLONEL KEDRICK WILLS, IDAHO STATE POLICE: Thank you, Captain. And thank you for those who are independents today for your attendance. We really appreciate this.

What has affected Moscow and the community here has affected all of us as Idahoans. We have a way in Idaho that the communities come together in tough times, and this is one of those tough times. Leads from that community are important, and as the captain spoke, no tip is too small and we urged anybody that has any information whatsoever to please provide that to help us solve this case.

The lead agency in this case is Moscow police department with Chief Fry and his dedicated team of professional and Idaho police's role is to support them and their good work here. There is an awful lot of efforts going on behind the scenes. And I will explain why it is behind the scenes in just a moment.

But what can be seen isn't always known of what we do in law enforcement. And I would like to explain that in just a moment. But the Idaho state police, and the FBI continue to provide resources to this investigation.

I would like to speak or just a moment, if I could, not about the specific case but rather an overview of how cases are investigated so that it may give some sense of the why of the timeline here.


We understand you want answers. We want answers too. But these take time, and if I could explain just a minute about the process here what we go through generally investigation. So, we use advanced investigative techniques and crime scene processing.

So what happens when a call comes in, the original officers, the first officers that responded country scenes and then once they have their work there and determined that they need to impose additional innovative assistance, then they crawls investigators to come and help process that scene. And oftentimes it requires a friends with seemed to help profit. When I say process the scene, what we are looking for is any evidence that may help us to be able to find the people or person responsible for what we are seeing.

So we are collecting biological evidence, we're collecting latent evidence. Whether it is shoe prints, tire, marks or anything like that. We are trying to collect that. We are trying to you, we do that through photographs. You do that through 3D mapping to be able to map the scene.

We identify as we mark evidence and then we collect that evidence. Then we look for any evidence that may, we think may be helpful. Once that is done we package that evidence up and we give it to you forensic laboratories to be analyzed to see if it can help provide clues with what is happening. All of this takes an immense amount of time.

The reason this is important to understand is because it is important that while this is such a tragic circumstance that we find ourselves in, in law enforcement, we believe we owe this to the surviving families to get this right. And so, we're not willing to sacrifice speed for quality.

We do testing for blood, we do latent print processing, any documentation for anything at the scene so that we can reconstruct that scene at a later date. If I could share just a few statistics of this particular crime scene, at this crime scene, we collected 103 pieces of individual evidence. We took approximately 4,000 photographs, we've conducted multiple 3D scans of the residents, and we have hundreds of hours used by technicians and investigators, including our forensics team and detectives from multiple agencies.

We have processed over 1,000 total tips and conducted over 150 interviews. I hope that you understand that gives a little bit of a perception of just how complex this case is. We have the utmost confidence in this investigation, and that this investigation will be done right. We ask you, and we have the public to please remain patient as this investigation unfolds. And please rely on official sources of information.

We really appreciate the media's assistance. We know you have a job to do, we know your professionals, and you do it to the best of your ability. And we are thankful that you are here because without you, we could not get the correct information to the community that can help us solve this.

So I can't overemphasize how much I appreciate and we appreciate in law enforcement, your willingness to do both. What you are doing matters. And it matters in what we are committed to doing, and that is to the best way we can think of to honor these victims and their families, is to conduct this investigation correctly.

Finally, I'd like to show that I have been in regular contact with Idaho's governor, Brad Little, throughout this investigation. Governor Little is making available up to a million dollars for expenses related to this ongoing investigation. As you heard, the resources that are here in Moscow and throughout with this investigation, you can see that those expenses went out of quickly.

Like all Idahoans, Governor Little is deeply saddened by the loss of the four bright and promising young lives. He is making sure the state of Idaho provides all of the resources possible to ensure that the personal persons responsible for this are brought to justice. I would like to try to time over to the University of Idaho president, Scott Green.

SCOTT GREEN, PRESIDENT, UNIVERSITY OF IDAHO: Good afternoon. I'm Scott Green, president the University of Idaho.

We deeply appreciate the kind words of support we have been receiving from our alumni and friends as well as many others who may not know us. People are donating to the victims' GoFundMe pages and the Boost fund for students in need. And they are buying personal devices for our students, and continuing to look for other ways that they can help.

This is what it means to be a Vandal. In the last 24 hours, we have sent updated communications to our students, employees, parents, and alumni.


And in those communications we discussed campus security, services available to our students and employees, our plans for both remote and live instructions to close the semester and our plans.

KEILAR: All right, you've been listening to this press conference from authorities there in Moscow, Idaho on the death for four University of Idaho students, Xana, Kaylee, Ethan, and Madison. What's really noteworthy here is how we didn't learn really much at all. They still have no idea why this happened, they don't have an idea of who, they do not have a weapon. They are still on the lookout for a fixed blade knife.

They have put in so much work between the Idaho state police, the Moscow police, and the FBI and other jurisdictions as well. So far, they just appear to not be able to find any information about who did this, although they are issuing this plea for people to share any information. They said it can be helpful even if people think the information may not be helpful, it is something that may actually lead to a break in the case.

We are going to continue, of course, to follow that story in the coming days.

I do want to turn now to our other top story which is a big development in the Justice Department's investigation into Donald Trump. Prosecutors hope to question former Vice President Mike Pence in the criminal investigation of Trump's attempts to stay in power following the 2020 election.

"The New York Times" Maggie Haberman was first to report this, along with her colleague Michael Schmidt, and she is with us now.

Maggie, what can you tell us about what the DOJ wants from Pence?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Sure. So, the DOJ is interested in talking to him in connection with the January 6 investigation that as we know has been going on for sometime. But he is the only person who can answer certain questions about what Trump was saying. About Trump's mindset, about the final phone call that they had the morning of January 6 for which Pence was not surrounded by aides, although Trump had people in the oval office. And he can talk about exactly what Trump was saying to him, what he was saying to Trump.

Now they have interviewed two witnesses who are close to Pence, Mike Short, his former chief of staff, and his general counsel, Greg Jacob. But again, Pence is really the key and a lot of this, and this is preliminary. This conversation just began but if that happens, if Pence were to be interviewed, it would be another extraordinary turn in this investigation.

KEILAR: It certainly would be. And Pence, Maggie, has made it clear that he will not testify before the January 6 committee. This does seem to be something different, though.

HABERMAN: That's right.

Look, Pence had had expressed some willingness to consider a formal invitation from the House January 6 committee back in the summer. I'm not sure whether that invitation ever happened but he made it clear in the last we could have that he has no intention of doing so variety of reasons. He is said to see this differently. A criminal investigation led by the Justice Department, and then a select committee led by house officials. So that is said to be governing how he is looking at this.

But there are so many unanswered questions still. You know, will there be a subpoena, would Trump try to prevent him testifying. Trump is tied with limited success to assert executive privilege to keep people from testifying. So this is still very beginning but it is a significant development.

KEILAR: And you can't ignore the political implications here, right? I mean, this is happening as Pence is staffing up for impossible presidential run against Trump.

HABERMAN: That's exactly right. We are looking at a scenario where Pence, the former vice president, could be a witness against Donald Trump, the former president -- one is considering a campaign, one has already declared it -- in an investigation that's been led by the Justice Department, helmed by a sitting president, President Biden, who himself has indicated is likely to run for reelection.

So this is just a very unusual circumstance. We are already in uncharted territory.

KEILAR: Maggie, thank you so much for sharing your reporting with us. We appreciate it.

HABERMAN: Thank you.

Coming up, America reeling from the second mass shooting in a week. We will go to Chesapeake, Virginia, for what investigators are learning about the suspect in last night's Walmart shooting.



KEILAR: The country is reeling from the second deadly mass shooting in the U.S. in less than a week. Six people killed, four wounded in a shooting at a Walmart in Chesapeake, Virginia. Investigators believe an employee of the store entered the break room just after 10:00 last night and opened fire on his coworkers. He was armed with a handgun. One employee who made it out of the store quickly, reacted to the

shooting on a Facebook live.


KEVIN HARPER, WALMART EMPLOYEE: He left out of a break room, we came in there, he started capping people up in there. Start shooting, bro. Unlike old though y'all. Sadly, though, we lost a few of our associates.

It was crazy though because, you know, coming out from where we, yeah, I hear all this before. So I'm thinking, it won't nothing, but then I hear getting closer. Oh, should I look, I'd seen everybody run. I got to get out of there.


KEILAR: And today, Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin called the shooting a shocking stark reality because it comes also just ten days after three UVA football players were shot and killed on their campus.


GOV. GLENN YOUNGKIN (R), VIRGINIA: It is just a horrendous event. Our hearts are completely broken this morning, yet again in the commonwealth of Virginia. Today, our job is to support families who are facing the unthinkable today.


KEILAR: CNN's Dianne Gallagher is outside of that Walmart in Chesapeake, Virginia, as investigators are learning more about the shooting suspect.


HARPER: You're coward for that, bro. You killed -- you killed people that did nothing to you.

DIANNE GALLAGHER, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The nation's latest mass shooting at a Walmart in Chesapeake, Virginia, happening just before the store closed for the night amid holiday shoppers.

Employee Kevin Harper who took this video, says the gunman was a store manager.

HARPER: Just left at the break room, come in there, started capping people up in there.


GALLAGHER: Tonight, at least six people are dead and several others injured.

BRIANNA TYLER, WALMART SHOOTING WITNESS: The manager just came around the corner. He never entered the break room but he just stood in the doorway and who just opened fire to anyone in the room.

He looked at me, and he shot near my head and it was about inches away, I'm not going to lie. There were people just dropping to the floor. Everybody was screaming. Gasping, and yeah. He just walked away after that.

GALLAGHER: Wednesday, the Chesapeake police chief provided a timeline of how it unfolded.

CHIEF MARK SOLESKY, CHESAPEAKE POLICE DEPARTMENT: Our 911 dispatch center received the first call at 10:12 p.m. last night. The first officers arrived on scene within two minutes, at 10:14, and entered the store approximately two minutes later at 10:16. And the scene was declared safe by 11:20 p.m.

GALLAGHER: Police say the gunman, who died at the scene from self inflicted gunshot wounds was a 31-year-old manager on the overnight shift. Authorities say that he was armed with a handgun and multiple magazines. What remains unclear, is why.

SOLESKY: We don't know at this time. The investigation is still ongoing, so there is no clear motive at this time.

TYLER: I am new, but I had heard from the very beginning that he was the one who watch out for. He was just really standoffish. I would say he kind of give off like loner vibe.

GALLAGHER: The city says two of the victims were found in a break room, another near the front of the store. Three others died at the hospitals.

This woman's relative, who works at Walmart, was injured in the shooting moments after he started his shift.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He went in at 10:00 p.m. tonight and we received a phone call -- well, his wife received a phone call, about 10:18 saying that he had been shot. He clocks in at 10:00. So he hadn't even been here ten minutes.

GALLAGHER: Walmart releasing a statement saying that it is shocked the tragedy and, quote, were praying for those impacted, the community and our associates. This is the second mass shooting in Virginia in two weeks, something Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin calls horrific.

YOUNGKIN: This is a horrendous event. It is a horrendous, senseless act of violence.


GALLAGHER (on camera): And just a few months ago, a handful of employees returned here. They were escorted by law enforcement can get their vehicles. It's the first time that they have come back to Walmart since they survived the shooting themselves and their co- workers and friends were murdered.

Brianna, one man told me that he hid under the table until the shot stopped and then he ran outside. He echoed what you heard the young women just now saying, that the gunman hand displayed odd or threatening behavior in the past. We heard that from other employees, other people who survived the shooting. But every one of them said that they had no idea and could never have imagined that it would've ended like this.

KEILAR: Truly senseless indeed.

Diane, thank you for the report.

I want to bring in Cliff Hayes now. He is a Virginia delegate who represents the Chesapeake area where the shooting happened.

Delegate, I mean, there are no words for this. We are so sorry for what you and your constituents are injuring today. How is the community doing?

CLIFF HAYES, JR. (D), VIRGINIA HOUSE OF DELEGATES: Well, Brianna, we appreciate you covering the story. But the community is somewhat trying to grapple with the why. It is very heavy. It is a load to carry mentally, even if he weren't physically here. So I can only imagine what those workers of Walmart went through during the turmoil of that incident while they were actually going through it. I can only imagine.

KEILAR: Yeah, I cannot imagine and you said they are grappling with the wire. You know, as an elected official. So many other elected officials are trying to think about how do we stop this from happening.

I know back in 2020 when your party, when Democrats controlled all the levers of government in Virginia, you ushered through universal background checks, a requirement about lost or stolen guns being reported, you limited handgun purchases, you passed a red flag law. Those are a number of measures.

What else needs to be done? What else can be done?

HAYES: Well, there is a lot that needs to happen. I think it starts with the leadership, of all parties, all parties involved, we as leaders, to understand that these issues are not mutually exclusive. In other words, it isn't just about making sure that we handle the issues of mental health concerns. And it is not that we just need to handle issues with regards to gun control.

But we need to get in a room, sit down, and begin to talk about why is it that here in the United States, we can be on a list of the top 64 or 65 wealthiest nations and yet we find ourselves at position number eight when it comes to you violent homicides, handgun killings.


When you compare us here in this country to the European Union, we are something like 23 times more likely for these incidents to occur here. And compare us to other places, Australia, it's somewhere in that same neighborhood, 22 times more likely to happen here. There is something wrong when folks are turning to these measures to solve problems.

I know we keep hearing in these reports that this is the second time that the separate shootings have occurred. The problem is, we only focus on the deaths.


HAYES: And I can tell you, even within my own family, within the last month, we have had two brothers that we buried weeks apart because of senseless gun violence. Somebody shot them, killed them. They were young African American men.

Before that, I had a cousin that wouldn't kill a fly, wouldn't bother anybody. He was just going for a walk and somebody ran him down the street, decides to just spray a gun and shot him. He didn't die, fortunately.

But what is wrong with us in this society as we count that as a success? That he got shot bag and get killed. We definitely have changed the measure and we're focus needs to be as on uplifting our communities, dealing with these issues and mental health, well at the same time understanding the proliferation of guns everywhere and anywhere is something that we need to sit down to the table to begin to figure out.

KEILAR: I mean, it is. I mean, delegate, your, right these are unacceptable outcomes. Whatever the outcome is, and we are so sorry for the loss of your community and to the personal loss in your family. And we thank you for being with us today.

HAYES: Thank you so much, Brianna.

KEILAR: In Colorado Springs, the shooting suspect appeared in court for the first time today after allegedly killing five people and injuring more than a dozen at an LGBTQ+ club.

CNN's Nick Watt is joining us live from outside of the courthouse.

Nick, what did the suspect say at this hearing today?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Brianna, very little. Name that yes when asked if they watched the video regarding their rights, then no when asked if they had any further questions.

The suspect actually appeared by video from this jailhouse behind me. The suspect was seated, slumped, slurring, bruising around the forehead from where the young naval officer and that trans women kicking the suspect in the head to thwart that attack.

Now, the defendants lawyers have the effect now identifies as nonbinary. The D.A. was asked if that would have any impact on the investigation of the prosecution. His answer, no. Formal charges expected December 6. We also spoke to a neighbor and friend this morning suffered the suspect had not once mentioned being nonbinary -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Nick Watt. Thank you so much for the very latest here.

The gun debate in a state like Virginia in the wake of the Walmart shooting, what Glenn Youngkin, the governor, promise as a candidate versus his tone now as governor.

Plus, the surprising number of flight cancelations today as we hit the peak period for Thanksgiving travel, and in the days and weeks ahead, look out for a brand-new CNN original series called "'Tis the Season: The Holidays on Screen". Take a look.


TOM HANKS, ACTOR: Christmas movies and television specials are always about someone who has lost their faith in humankind, regaining it.

PHIL ROSENTHAL, CREATOR, EVERYBODY LOVES RAYMOND: Christmas stories are one of the best movies about nostalgia, family, and Christmas.

SARA SIDNER, JOURNALIST, CNN: I watch it every year at least twice. It's the script of my life.

RAMI MALEK, ACTOR: It's hard to beat "Home Alone".

DAVID E. TALBERT, WRITER/DIRECTOR: Just took fun in a hijinx, it is on the Mount Rushmore of holiday movies.

RON HOWARD, DIRECTOR: I lost myself in "Miracle on 34th Street".

ALONSO DURALDE, FILM CRITIC/AUTHOR: "National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation" was capturing how the holidays make us all insane.

BEN MANKIEWICZ, HOST, TURNER CLASSIC MOVIES: There is that consistent element in "Elf" of change of realization.

TIM NAFTALI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Watch a good Christmas show? It doesn't matter when it was made. These ideas don't get old.

ANNOUNCER: Unwrap the stories behind everything we love to watch at Christmas. A two-hour special event, "'Tis the Season: The Holidays on Screen". Sunday at 8:00, on CNN.




KEILAR: Moments ago, Moscow, Idaho police wrapped up an update of the student killings at the University of Idaho.

I want to bring in CNN's Natasha Chen.

Natasha, there was some Q&A after this press conference. What was the takeaway?

NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. The takeaway is that there is a lot of information that police are not willing to share with the public because they say that it could very much affect the investigation and they are trying to protect this, which is frustrating for the people asking the questions.


One of those questions from the press was about why they can't share who was being targeted that night to shed some light on potential motivation here, put the public at ease. If there is some negative information like that that could help.

But here is what they said in response to that.


CAPTAIN ROGER LANIER, MOSCOW, IDAHO, POLICE DEPARTMENT: We have the integrity of the investigation to preserve and we feel like that information is integral to us and how we conduct our investigation. Releasing that to the public may or may not flood us with a lot of information that's not relevant or specific to what we are looking at.


CHEN: We also learned that they have collected more than 100 pieces of evidence, about 4,000 photos taken, and did multiple 3D scans of the evidence of the site, process more than 1,000 tips and interviewed 150 people. In addition they are in contact with the governor of Idaho who has made 1 million dollars expenses available for this investigation.

I want to point out that the captain did say at the podium that, in some ways, this took our innocence -- referring to the fact that this is a small town, a small college town where there have not been a murder between 2016 and 2021. So this is definitely a very big case, a very serious one, and they're trying very hard to get this solved, Brianna.

KEILAR: They do have a lot of manpower. We did hear about that.

Natasha, thank you so much, live for us from Moscow, Idaho.

Now to our health lead. The Georgia Supreme Court reinstating a six- week ban on abortions. Many women reports aren't even aware they are pregnant when they are six weeks along. The ban was struck down by a lower court last week, and this latest rulings temporarily reinstate the district of panelist Supreme Court considers an appeal.

Now in our politics, back to today's other big political development. The DOJ seeking to questions the former vice president in its January 6 investigation. Let's talk about this.

So, look, Pence is a witness, right? He is a witness here. He is also stepping up for a potential presidential run against Donald Trump. How do you see this playing out?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, PBS NEWSHOUR: Well, it is really difficult to see right now a constituency for Vice President Mike Pence, former Vice President Mike Pence. But I thought that the article was interesting because it is difficult to tell where exactly this was coming from. It is hard to imagine that this is necessarily being linked by the DOJ.

If it is coming from Pence's world, I noted that a number of people who were familiar with the former vice president's thinking, said that he may be open to talking to the DOJ. And so, ultimately, I think that -- you are shaking your head -- at Pence for talking to the DOJ.

But, ultimately, I really think that this could be headed towards a subpoena because it is hard to imagine that Pence is going to just willingly talk to the DOJ without that being handed to him first.

JOE WALSH (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, ILLINOIS: Brianna, I would want to be Mike Pence. I mean, he cut a deal with the devil six years ago and he just can't escape. Every day, week, month she is ensnared by Trump and now he wants to run for president. He cannot escape.

JACKIE KUCINICH, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: But at this point, it's talking to the DOJ going to really further hurt his political ambitions? The January -- if you are someone who supports for President Trump, you have already dismissed Mike Pence wholeheartedly.

Now, if he doesn't talk to the DOJ and he says -- to fight it and they have to subpoena him, okay, perhaps that will drag it out and he will try to maneuver that way. But I think at this point, if you don't like Mike Pence because of January 6th, whether or not he talked to the DOJ isn't really going into your decision-making.

KEILAR: Kirsten, I wanted to ask you, overnight another mass shooting that we saw are really not that far from here, right? In just a few hours from where we are now, and now you have seen two in less than a week. There's one in Colorado Springs, we saw the other one in Virginia, at UVA about ten days ago.

I want to listen to what the Republican governor of Virginia, Glenn Youngkin, said back when he was campaigning in 2021, and then this warning.


GOV. GLENN YOUNGKIN (R), VIRGINIA: We will protect the Second Amendment and our right to keep and bear arms.

Let me begin with the just shocking, stark reality that we have had two horrific acts of violence in the commonwealth of Virginia in two weeks.


KEILAR: What do you think as you see that sort of what he is campaigning on his promises meeting reality?

KIRSTEN POWERS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I mean, I suppose he would fit those are two different things. That you can protect the right to bear arms but also obviously don't support mass shooting and that there have to be, you know, people need to on their guns legally and all of these other things.


So I do think it is interesting how he is talking about there because he does really talk about it being a shooting. He's talking about it being an event. You know, he's kind of seems to be talking around it.

And it seems like what Republicans to these mass shootings are the kind of wait them out, right? Because, people get very up in arms and say we need to do something and then it kind of passes and then we have another shooting, right, and they don't actually ever to anything, they just sort of weight everybody out, and then the Democrats can try to do something but ultimately they're not going to be able to get the Republicans to go along with it.

WALSH: Brianna, I'm a gun owner and a staunch Second Amendment defender. Gun owners have got to lead on this because that guy out in Colorado, red flag law that wasn't enforced. Universal background checks, strengthening red flag laws, doing everything we can do before a gun is purchased to make sure a bad guy shouldn't get a gun. I think this is an opportunity finally for gun owners to join that. Most Americans support all that stuff.

KEILAR: Most gun owners support all of that, right?

WALSH: Most gun owners support that.

BARRON-LOPEZ: A lot of these measures are very popular, and, of course, President Biden repeatedly says he would like to again pass an assault weapons ban, but I don't see that happening with the Republican House majority and a 51 -- potentially 51-seat majority for Democrats in the Senate. Even if they gain a seat in the Senate, additional gun measures beyond what was passed already, I think it's a no go in Congress.

KUCINICH: Democrats in the Senate, who are middle of the road Democrats, someone like Joe Manchin, who is not go along with --

BARRON-LOPEZ: And there are no Republicans that are going to go --

KUCINCIH: Exactly. There isn't the crossover that you would need to get this done.

WALSH: And you have House Republicans that aren't going to do anything but investigate and impeach. So they won't have time, Brianna.

POWERS: I mean, nothing is ever going to change until Republicans hold the Republicans responsible for this. Until they make it a priority, and say, look, this has to stop. We have to change these laws. Democrats have been very clear that they want to change the laws, but the only reason they can't is because of Republicans.

KEILAR: And some Democrats go along with Republicans on some of this issue.

POWERS: Yeah. The Democrats should be able to put together enough people --

KEILAR: There are some regional strains that we see in this as well. But certainly, your point is well taken there.

Thank you guys so much for the discussion on this very important day.

Just an absolute horror in Ukraine today. Widespread power and water outages after a barrage of strikes, including one that hit a hospital maternity ward. We are live in the region, next.



KEILAR: Topping our world lead, the quote, worst winter since World War II. That's what Kyiv's mayor is saying after a barrage of Russian missile strikes on Ukraine's capital and other major cities today as Vladimir Putin aims to terrorize the country with a cold, dark winter.

CNN's Matthew Chance is in Ukraine, where Putin's ruthless war has taken yet another young, innocent life.


MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The latest target in Russia's ruthless missile barrage. A Ukrainian maternity ward pounded from the skies.

Emergency workers pulling a doctor and a young mother from the rubble.

But a newborn baby just two days old couldn't be saved.

Tatiana (ph) is the grandmother, now an unbearable pain. Her daughter's face and legs were wounded by shrapnel, she says, but it's the loss of the child that's left her daughter emotionally shattered. Another life, another family now in ruins.

Across Ukraine, the roar of Russian missiles is tearing up the skies. Near the capital, Kyiv, a residential building was hit. The yard outside, turned into a smoldering disaster zone. Officials say casualties are high, with dozens injured or killed, as Russia tries to target energy and water infrastructure across Ukraine, on apparently deliberately attempt to make the people here suffer.

And, another obstacle the Ukrainian leadership is vowing to overcome.

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): The task has been set. We will restore all of this. And we will get through all of this because we are an unbreakable people.

CHANCE: But with power outages nationwide, these are fragile times. Shops operating by flashlight, public transport at a virtual standstill. And even hospitals, far away from the war zone, on emergency supplies. Russia's barrage may not have broken Ukrainians, but it is making them suffer.


CHANCE (voice-over): Well, Brianna, tonight, the Ukrainian government is announcing that it's opening more than 4,000, what it calls, invincibility points across the country. Places where people can go and get some hot food, or they can charge their phones, get on the internet, just keep warm as the temperatures across Ukraine really start to plunge below freezing.

But with no letup in the Russian missile strikes, the people of Ukraine are still facing a very long, very cold, very dark few months ahead -- Brianna.

KEILAR: They certainly are. Matthew Chance, live for us in Ukraine, thank you.

Up next, the silent protest at the World Cup today that spoke volumes.



KEILAR: In our sports league, a powerful silent protest at the world cup in Qatar. Germany's team lined up with their mouths covered before their game against Japan. The German Football Federation tweeting the picture with the caption, denying us the armband is the same as denying us a voice. FIFA threatened several European teams with penalties if they wore rainbow earned bends with the phrase "OneLove" to promote human rights.

Germany's interior minister protested herself. She wore the armband in the stands during the match.

So, if you have people coming in for Thanksgiving, and I know I do right here, they may be cranky when they arrive. This is why. This is what they're dealing with.

AAA expecting more than 54 million people to travel 50 miles or more for Thanksgiving.

Now, for air travel, there's actually a lot to be thankful for today. Only 45 flights have been canceled so far today. That's according to flight aware. You heard that right, 45. Just night and day from the travel meltdown that we saw this summer.

And our coverage continues now in "THE SITUATION ROOM".