Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

McCarthy Confident He'll Have Votes To Be Elected Speaker Tonight; Rep. James Comer, (R-KY), Is Interviewed About House Speaker Vote; Rep. Victoria Spartz, (R-IN), Is Interviewed About House Speaker Vote, Ukraine Fund; Biden Awards 14 People Presidential Citizens Medal On Riot Anniversary; Biden Awards Citizens Medal To 12 On January 6 Anniversary; FDA Approves New Alzheimer's Drug That Appears To Slow Disease; Suspect Bryan Kohberger Linked Through DNA, Cellphone Data And Witness. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 06, 2023 - 17:00   ET




And leading this hour, the House adjourned temporarily before what could be the final vote for House Speaker after Kevin McCarthy finally made some progress, convincing more than -- convincing four additional -- I'm sorry, convincing 15 additional holdouts to flip their votes and support him. Let's go to CNN's Melanie Zanona who's live on Capitol Hill.

Melanie, McCarthy flipped 15 holdouts today. What are you learning about the concessions he made to them in order to get their votes?

MELANIE ZANONA, CNN CAPITOL HILL REPORTER: Well, Jake, that is really starting to come into focus. The number of concessions and promises that Kevin McCarthy has made over the course of these negotiations has been quite outstanding. And I should caution that this stuff has not been put on paper. There has not been anything put out that we have seen. This is based on all the reporting from me and my fantastic Hill team.

But I just want to walk you through some of these things just to give the viewers a sense of what has been agreed to and what a Kevin McCarthy speakership could potentially look like. So, the big one is that he agreed for any single member to be able to call for a vote on ousting the sitting speaker. That's something Kevin McCarthy used to say he would never budge on, now he is relented and any member can call for that vote. So that could potentially undermine his authority going forward.

He's agreed that his leadership Pac (ph) is not going to play in primaries to try to beat conservatives, at least in open primaries in safe districts. That's something conservative has complained about in the past. He promised to hold votes on a number of different bills, including ballot budget amendment, congressional term limits, border security. Of course, we should note that anything that passes the House has to then pass the Senate, which is held by Democrats. So, it's not like those things are necessarily going to become law, but it will give you a sense of the things that they will be voting on. McCarthy also promised that any debt ceiling hike is going to be paired with spending cuts. That's a big one because it could really tee up a fiscal showdown as Democrats have drawn a line in the sand about exchanging those types of things.

And finally, more Freedom Caucus representation on committees including the powerful House Rules Committee, which has say over which bills come to the floor and how. So that just gives you a sense of what Kevin McCarthy's speakership could look like, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Melanie Zanona on Capitol Hill, thanks.

Let's bring in Republican Congressman James Comer of Kentucky who will be the chairman of the Oversight Committee. You're changing the name of it, right? It's not going to be Oversight and Government Reform. It's going to be Oversight and Accountability?


TAPPER: So, soon to be Mr. Chairman, you have been supporting Kevin McCarthy in his bid for speaker. You voted for him 13 times on 13 ballots. You gave one of the speeches on the House floor today nominating him. Is this going to end tonight? He going to win the speakership this evening?

COMER: I think so. We still have two holdouts that I hear the negotiations are going well. At this point, it's just a matter of confidence, but hopefully we'll get that nailed down. I knew we needed two more members who had to fly home for medical procedures, they're in route now. So, hopefully tonight will be the last night and we can finally get back to work.

TAPPER: So, I know this won't necessarily affect you in terms of your work on the Oversight Committee, but there have been a lot of concessions made to these rebels, these holdouts, in terms of liberalizing democratizing the process and putting some of them on key committees. Matt Gaetz, the leader of the rebel faction, says if McCarthy wins, he's going to have to "govern with a straitjacket," that's a quote. Are you concerned at all about governing going forward?

COMER: Look, I think it's great. We have 222 strong willed people who won, who all receive mandates back home in their district, and we should all have pretty equal voices up here. So, I think it's great. I support all the rules changes.

I serve on the committee with a lot of these guys who have stood their ground for so long, and they're good committee members. You know, it's just a matter of putting everyone in the right place where they can do the best for their each individual districts. And I think that that's happening as we speak. And I think that the changes are going to be welcome. If there are some of my colleagues on the Republican side that are a little skeptical, I tell them, just give him a chance, and these guys have done well. You know, two years ago, we would have said Thomas Massie and Jim Jordan would have been two of the guys that would have been creating havoc, and they're outstanding members, and they've been leading the way and trying to negotiate a deal for speakership. So, I'm confident about the future of the Republican Party, and I'm confident about this Republican majority.

TAPPER: Are you worried at all about a minority of the Republican Conference holding the rest of you hostage? We've heard from members of Congress talking about how they're afraid that having some of these, whatever you want to call them, former McCarthy opponents on the Rules Committee, et cetera, might just get in the way of governance so that you'll have to, when it comes to must pass legislation, for people at home, that means appropriations bills, spending bills or raising the debt ceiling, things that need to pass in order for government to function but might not be fun votes to cast, that what you might find is some of these folks block it from ever hitting the floor. You have to go and get 212 Democrats and six or so Republicans to sign a discharge petition to force it onto the floor for a vote. I mean, that's very chaotic.


COMER: That's possible. Or it's possible that once these members are on the Rules Committee and we can actually bring to the floor some amendments of some bills that we've all campaigned on, like balanced budget amendment and term limits, I think that having those people on the Rules Committee will ensure that we actually take those votes on the floor. Most members of Congress on the Republican side, we've all campaigned and spent money in mailers and on T.V. ads saying that were going to do this, but yet we've never voted on that for whatever reason. I think these guys on the Rules Committee will make sure that we actually do the things we campaigned and said we would do.

So, I think that's a positive. And I'm hopeful that when they see that we start actually voting on the bills that we campaigned on, that they'll come around and realize we have to govern, we have to get to 218. We can't have any more delays like we had this week. And you know, maybe at the end of the day, this will be a great learning experience for a new Republican majority.

TAPPER: Maybe. Let me ask you about your role as the incoming chair of the House Oversight and Accountability Committee, according to Politico, the White House has asked you to resubmit your request for records because you weren't a member of Congress withstanding at the time or you were in the minority party at the time. I'm not sure which request they're referring to. Do you think ultimately the White House is going to cooperate with your requests for information and documents?

COMER: Well, they said when Joe Biden was campaigning that he would be the most transparent president in the history of America. Now, Jake, do you believe that rejecting our offers for information with respect to taxpayer spending sounds like a transparent administration? You know, I'm hopeful that they'll turn around once we become the majority and I have the gavel because the Oversight Committee is supposed to get the backs of the American taxpayers. We're supposed to be the check and balance on the American tax dollars that are spent up here. And there hasn't been any oversight.

So, we're concerned about the massive spending. We know there are reports of waste, fraud, and abuse of the unemployment insurance fund with some of the COVID money with these grants that are handed out in many of these government agencies. So, we just want to get to work and do our job and try to make sure that taxpayer dollars aren't being wasted.

TAPPER: All right, good luck tonight, sir. I know you all want to get home, and I know you all want to get a speaker.


TAPPER: Republican Congressman and soon to be chairman, James Comer of Kentucky, thank you so much. Good to see you as always.

COMER: Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: I want to bring in former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger, who's now a Senior CNN Political Commentator.

So, Congressman, Kevin McCarthy says he's going to have the votes to be elected speaker tonight. What do you make it of all? Is he going to get the votes tonight, and has he given away too much of the store?

ADAM KINZINGER, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE, ILLINOIS: Well, so first off, I mean, I thought that he would do literally whatever he needed to win this position, and I mean, he gets credit for that. He's been going through a hard negotiation. If he does win, really, it is historic. I do think the question is, though, how can he govern?

And you know, knowing what I know about the House and some of the moments we've been through, and then seeing some of the things he's going to give away. So, for instance, the whole, you know, one person to vacate the chair, that's going to be chaos. But the bigger things are Rules Committee positions for some of these Freedom Caucus members. You can't get a bill to the floor, as you were mentioning, without going through the Rules Committee.

You have things like that. And I worry about the inability now of the House to be able to function under Speaker McCarthy. But if he gets it, it was a heck of a feat to get there, for sure.

TAPPER: Well, I mean, I've asked this question about these insurgents being put on the Rules Committee and blocking legislation from even coming to the floor of the House for a vote must pass legislation, appropriations bills, raising the debt ceiling. And the only way to get them out is having to rely on the kindness of Democrats, 212 of them, to sign discharge petitions, get six Republicans who are responsible to do it, et cetera, et cetera. Nobody's pushing back on me if that's what's going to happen. You heard Chairman Comer. I mean, like, they're saying, yes, that might happen. KINZINGER: Yes. And look at this, the last successful discharge petition, I was one of the leaders of, it had to do with EXIM Bank. Before that, it had been like 30 years since a discharge petition had come to the floor. And again, this is just a method to force basically around House rules to bring something to the floor. That's the only way.

The other thing, too, is just, you know, for every person that gets a committee position that negotiated through this kind of, we'll call it legislative terrorism, there's somebody that's not going to get that position that played ball. That creates a lot of animosity. And also this idea of an open rule on the floor. And there's a lot of inside baseball.

But if you think back to when I got elected in 2010 and 2011, John Boehner made the decision to allow us to have what's called an open rule, which means any member can put any amendment up at any time. But he knew that we'd get it out of our system pretty quick because we had one open rule to a continuing resolution. And I think we had something like 1000 or 2000 votes and that pretty much broke people quickly.


So, an open rule sounds great. You know, we all wish it would function, but it's everybody trying to put their messaging amendment on every bill. It's going to be a mess.

TAPPER: Might be different if they weren't allowed to give speech. You know these six Republican holdouts, who do you think is the most likely top two to flip their votes?

KINZINGER: I really don't know. I mean, it'll be interesting to see at this point if I guessed, it would just be throwing names out there because I kind of see the six of these or at least five of these as kind of being in this for the fame, in this for popularity. And it's really hard to talk somebody out of being -- especially when you start to get the smaller numbers like four and five, you can stand up and be the one person fighting for truth. You know, you can say that even though that's not the case.

And so, I think what we have to look for is, are there pressure points that come from the Donald Trump world, you know, from other members of the freedom club, that kind of world? And then maybe they will, but they're going to have some face saving thing out of this, which if they don't consider what's been given already face saving, I really don't know what else they could get.

TAPPER: All right, Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois, now a CNN Contributor, thank you so much. Good to see you.


TAPPER: For the first time in four days, Republican leader McCarthy gained votes in the speakership race. That's good. Will we see the numbers shift more in his direction? We're going to keep that conversation going. And a significant move today. The FDA approving a drug shown to slow the effects of early Alzheimer's as doctors' debate that drug's safety. Stay with us.



TAPPER: The House of Representatives is adjourned until 10:00 Eastern this evening. That is when Republicans expect they will have two more members back in town. They had to leave for family reasons and may want to have another vote for speaker.

In the two ballots taken today, Kevin McCarthy was able to get 14, then one more total of 15 previous holdouts to come over to his side. One of those members is Republican Congresswoman Victoria Spartz of Indiana. Though we should clarify, Congresswoman, you started off voting for McCarthy and then you started voting present to encourage the negotiations. Now you're back in the McCarthy camp. So presumably you were happy with the fact that there were negotiations and it actually brought people on board.

REP. VICTORIA SPARTZ (R-IN): Yes, and I think it's important for us, you know, to be able to govern in the tight majority and talk to each other. So I think negotiation and conversation in good faith is very important. It was much stronger, -- made stronger.

And I'll tell you, Republicans and conservatives are not -- never going to be governed with an iron fist the Speaker Pelosi was able to do in her conference. So it's good for Kevin McCarthy to understand it now. And I think that was a very good progress that was made today.

TAPPER: McCarthy says that he's confident he's going to be elected speaker tonight. He's going to win. Do you agree?

SPARTZ: Well, I have to trust only this -- his judgment and the processes that he's involved with. But I think there are -- you know, there are number of other Republicans, you know, that really good to run conservatives and have some concerns, and Kevin just need to talk with them. And I think they will be able to come on board because they want to make sure that we do things that, you know, our American people want from us and start governance.

So, I'm sure it's going to happen and I hope it happens tonight. But I think this is going to be dependent on him and he needs to show that he can work with people and be able to bring all of us together.

TAPPER: So this has happened in history before, but it's been 100 years since the last time it happened, 1923. And it hasn't gone to this many ballots any time other than four times in the first half of the 18 hundreds and maybe like right after 1855, I think, as well in 1859. My point is, it was right before the American Civil War. And I'm wondering if you think the fact that it has not been this complicated since right before the American Civil War says something about where we are in our politics. SPARTZ: Well, I think, you know, our politics and our country is very divided and I think our institutions are not functioning properly and American people are tired of it from both sides of the aisle. And we criticize President Biden a lot and there is a lot of criticism we can do. But we also should criticize our branch because they're not doing job because our approval rating is lower than President Biden. And it's to say something that people are not happy with us.

So if we want to function as an institution, we need to reform ourselves as an institution. So it's not about the speaker. I personally don't care who is the speaker. I want to make sure that we have the right processes in place to make us -- to represent our people and deliver for the American people. And I think moving in the democracy direction, making our institution more deliberate body, is actually very good for all of us.

We actually had to go and get to know each other and listen to each other, not just talk to an empty room. So I think there are a lot of things that are going to be positive in the end.

TAPPER: Certainly anything that would encourage more interactions, more debate, more amendments, a democratization of the legislative process is a good thing. Encouraging people to actually have to read the legislation before they vote on it is a good thing. But there are other concessions that we've heard may have been offered. When are you going to find out what all of the concessions were?

SPARTZ: Well, I think before we vote on all of the rules, you know, then we will be able to see these rules and address some concerns. You know, if we need, we'll go back to conference and have some further deliberation. But I think a lot of the things they've been discussed, they just were not on paper. And some of this member makes sure that Kevin is going to put on the paper because, you know, we had a lot of track record with people having some grievances and some concerns.

So I think putting it on paper in front of some of the people, you know, that had this concern is good things. But I think a lot of the tools being discussed already internally, so I don't think there are going to be any surprises. And I don't expect anyone to come out with surprises and people's support.


So I think it's going to be communicated to all of the members. And I truly believe in the end we're all going to like it more. And you know what, if I don't like something and things can better, this rules are not set in stone (ph). We can actually make some changes to the rules, but I think we're moving in a positive direction.

TAPPER: One last question for you. You were the first American -- first Ukrainian born member of the U.S. Congress. I'm sure you support debate over funding for Ukraine. I'm sure you support oversight over that funds. But I'm wondering if you worry at all these concessions, these rules and the empowering of these individuals who continually voted against Kevin McCarthy if they will ultimately stop funding Ukraine's efforts to defend itself. SPARTZ: I think, you know, we will always have differences in opinions not just on our side and on our side, you know. But I think Ukraine has been supported on a bipartisan basis. And I think if we have better deliberation and explain a lot of my conservative friends that we do have that oversight, that we do have strategies, that the other branches actually come to us and tell us what's happening there because they've been very reluctant, I think much more conservatives are going to support freedom, love in Ukrainians that are fighting for the values that a lot of conservatives are fighting for.

So I think that is actually going to improve, you know, our relationship with our base because a lot of stuff what's happening right now, it's actually propaganda done by Russians. And I have to tell you, the other side gave them some of the tools to do that propaganda. A lot of conservatives freedom, love and people will love, freedom, love and Ukrainian people too.

TAPPER: All right, Republican Congresswoman Victoria Spartz, thank you so much. Appreciate your time.

SPARTZ: Thank you.

TAPPER: Today's historic votes for House speaker come two years to the day that some of these same insurgent members were running for their lives and some of them were fanning the flames.

Coming up next, two years since the Capitol attack and the extensive work still today to track down those responsible for the violence.



TAPPER: And the House of Representatives will be back in session at 10:00 p.m. Eastern this evening. That's when we expect round 14 of the vote for speaker.

Earlier today, members gathered outside the Capitol to mark two years since the January 6 insurrection. Only one Republican showed up there, Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick of Pennsylvania.

CNN's Evan Perez joins me now.

Evan, prosecutors are still trying to bring rioters to justice. Dozens, if not hundreds of people, could still face arrest stemming from the attack.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, the FBI says that they're going to keep at this until they find all these people. That one of the big focus is, obviously, are the people who assaulted police officers.

And here's some of the numbers. Just of the two years of this effort by the Justice Department, there are over 950 people who've been arrested. We know of 280 who have been charged with assault or resisting or impeding some of the officers there at the scene. I'm sorry, 484 guilty pleas so far. And there are still about 40 defendants who've been found guilty in trials, including one today.

We saw today one of the first rioters who kicked down a door and was one of the first to get into the Capitol. He was sentenced to 48 months in prison as a result of that.

TAPPER: And Evan, conspiracy charges are among the most serious sets at the heart of the new trial against members of the Proud Boys, the far right group. Where does that case stand out?

PEREZ: Well, it's in jury selection right now, and it's been interesting, you know, our team there, Hannah Rabinowitz and Holmes Lybrand described a very contentious effort to seat a jury. We expect opening arguments to happen next week. But one of the things that they've struggled with is the fact that obviously the reputation of the Proud Boys in the city, getting people who don't have strong views about them has been a bit of a challenge for prosecutors and for the defense. We expect, obviously, the Justice Department has been successful with the seditious conspiracy charges against members of the Oath Keepers, so they feel pretty good about this trial going in, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Evan Perez, thanks so much.

Let's bring in Michael Fanone now. He's a CNN Law Enforcement Analyst and former D.C. Police Officer who almost died at the hands of that pro-Trump mob as he tried to defend the Capitol during the January 6 insurrection two years ago. He's also the author of the memoir "Hold the Line the Insurrection in One Cop's Battle for America's Soul." And he is fresh off a visit to the White House, where he was one of only 14 people to receive one of the highest honors given to civilians, the Presidential Citizens Medal.

First of all, congratulations on that.


TAPPER: That's pretty cool. Your girls are here. Were they in the audience? Did they get this the medal?

FANONE: They were. They did. Yes, they did. They got to meet the President.


FANONE: Fantastic.

TAPPER: Yes. And your people might not know this, but you're a -- you voted for Trump. I mean, here you are with Joe Biden. Was that weird otherworldly or is this just all been part of this long, strange trip you've been on?

FANONE: Yes, no, I mean, it's part of that long, strange trip you talked about. I voted for Trump in 2016, I voted for Biden in 2020. But you know, I was grateful for the opportunity to be acknowledged, not so much for what I did on January 6, but for everything that I've done and what so many other Americans that were recognized today have done since then.

TAPPER: You and your fellow officers were beaten.


You had a heart attack. It was a horrible experience. There's been physical recovery and emotional recovery, I'm sure. How are you doing on this two year anniversary?

FANONE: I mean with regards to the injuries I sustained that day on January 6, I feel I've made a full recovery.

TAPPER: The physical ones.

FANONE: The physical ones. And, you know, again, I had a 20-year career in law enforcement to kind of desensitize me to the violence that I experienced that day. So I believe that I've, you know, come to terms with the trauma of January 6. The day, or what I continue to struggle with is everything that's happened since then and the things, the issues that we continue to grapple with as a country regarding, you know, the former President, the lies that he spewed, and the political violence that we've experienced as a result of them.

TAPPER: Yes. And on that subject, while you were there at the White House being honored with Democrats and Republicans and Independents by the President for standing up for democracy, for you, for literally protecting democracy with your life.

At the other side of the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue, Republicans are working to elect a speaker. That speaker is likely going to be Kevin McCarthy, who you wrote in an opinion article on McCarthy told you that he couldn't control the fringe members of the party. And some people see what he's doing right now, not certainly with all the people that had been against him, but like, with some of them as empowering them.

Congressman Scott Perry, for example, he's, you know, he's neck deep in January 6, he's Justice Department asked for his phone. He was trying to introduce Jeff Clark to the Trump administration to try to get him to be the head of the Justice Department, et cetera, et cetera, I mean, I could go on.

It must -- is it weird to be honored for your role in saving democracy while a lot of the people who seem to be opponents of that democracy are having a hell of a time in Congress right now? A good time, I mean.

FANONE: Yes, no, I mean, listen, nobody enjoys watching Kevin McCarthy squirm more than me. I'm not a fan. I don't think he has possesses any leadership quality, let alone the quality to lead the House. That being said, I recognize the fact that while he struggles, it's empowering, you know, the members of Congress like you just described, either these insurrectionists sympathizing members or members who may have contributed to the insurrection at the Capitol themselves.

And so, that's deeply concerning because they represent such a small segment of the Republican Party and people that are sympathetic to January 6 represent such a small part of our country, but yet here they are, being empowered and emboldened by a weak, feckless candidate for speaker.

TAPPER: Yes. You talk about condemning political violence, not being a Democratic issue or a Republican issue. I completely agree. You say it's a moral issue, but it's weird because there was a House ceremony marking the two-year anniversary of that horrific attack on the Capitol in which everybody's life was at stake. They were trying to hang Mike Pence. They were going to, you know, we saw images of Mitt Romney being escorted away by police, I think by Eugene Goodman, I'm not sure, et cetera, et cetera.

Like Democrats lives were at stake, Republicans lives were at stake, and on and on. And yet only one Republican, if you look at the image right there, only one Republican member of Congress went to that event today, Congressman Brian Fitzpatrick, Republican from outside Philly in the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. What do you make of that?

FANONE: I mean, I'll say this over the past two years that I've been outspoken or a year that I've been outspoken about January 6, I have tried to walk a fine line when it comes to condemning Republicans. Nobody likes to be painted with a broad brush. Law enforcement certainly doesn't like that. And I don't believe that all Republicans are sympathetic to the MAGA agenda.

That being said, it's very difficult to defend the Republican Party when only one of their members takes the time to show up and show support for law enforcement. It was there defending them that day. It's disgraceful. It's an embarrassment for their party, and it's disgraceful behavior. And as somebody who has previously supported Republican candidates, it's, you know, it's shameful. They seem to be a party at this point in time that is without shame.

TAPPER: All right, Mr. Fanone, it's good to see you.

FANONE: Thank you.

TAPPER: Nice to see your beautiful daughters over there. Congratulations on your award. And that must have been very exciting to be at the White House and see your dad get an award. All right.

CNN is going to air a special presentation of the Discovery Plus original film called January 6. The only project the Capitol Police and DC police departments granted filmmakers full access for to their officers. That airs tomorrow night at 8:00 Eastern right here in CNN.



TAPPER: In our health lead, the FDA has approved a new Alzheimer's drug today. One that could slow the progression of cognitive decline, but potential side effects have given some experts pause. CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta explores who could benefit from this new treatment. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): At first, the signs can be subtle. Missing your exit on the freeway. Forgetting what you need at the grocery store, misplacing your keys.


JACK DRISCOLL, ALZHEIMER'S TRIAL PATIENT: I'll look at my phone and read the names. A lot of them don't mean anything to me.

GUPTA: Your life marches on independently, but the markers of memory slowly, surely begin to fade. That's what early Alzheimer's feels like. When 80-year-old Jack Driscoll got his own Alzheimer's diagnosis in 2019, he was doing OK. But he worried what his future would eventually have in store.

DRISCOLL: I talked to my wife and I talked to my kids and let them know that maybe down the road I wasn't going to be the same as I was then.

GUPTA: So In 2021, Jack enrolled in a clinical trial for an experimental drug called Lecanemab. Just approved by the FDA, this drug has shown it can potentially postpone the fate of those with early Alzheimer's, in part by removing amyloid plaques from the brain.

DR. RICHARD ISAACSON, PREVENTIVE NEUROLOGIST: We're finding that this specific type of amyloid, when removed, actually associates or correlates with a slowing of cognitive decline.

GUPTA: Most importantly, clinical trials of the drug found that it slowed cognitive decline in people with early Alzheimer's by 27 percent. What does that mean? According to models by the drugmaker, someone who is 80 like Jack could experience a two to three-year delay in progression to worsening of his Alzheimer's disease.

ISAACSON: We've been targeting Alzheimer's disease at the end stage when people have dementia, where they can no longer take care of themselves and the pathology and the plaques and the tangles have built up. And by that time, there's not as much as we can do.

GUPTA: But nothing comes without risks. And the ones that come with this type of drug have raised red flags.

DR. SHARON COHEN, MEDICAL DOCTOR, TORONTO MEMORY PROGRAM: We have known for many years that with almost all of the drugs in this class, there can be a side effect of ARIA.

GUPTA: Dr. Sharon Cohen has been studying Alzheimer's drugs for 30 years and was part of the clinical trial for Lecanemab. What she is talking about, ARIA, is amyloid related imaging abnormality. It can look like this or this. It's brain swelling or brain bleeding. Though, Cohen says these types of side effects were mostly mild in the trial.

COHEN: We do know that Lecanemab has a low rate of causing macro hemorrhage. Not necessarily fatal, but a low rate less than 1 percent. GUPTA: In the Phase 3 clinical trial, there were seven deaths in the

placebo group and six deaths in the Lecanemab group, according to the investigators, though, none of the deaths were considered to be due to Lecanemab or ARIA. The New England Journal of Medicine recently published details of an additional death of a patient on the drug who had been given blood thinners, raising additional concerns.

COHEN: Pretty hard to say Lecanemab caused that when you're giving a drug that itself can cause significant bleeding. However, the combination gives us pause.

GUPTA: Neurologist Dr. Richard Isaacson agrees that while this drug shows promise, it must come with caution, for example, avoiding blood thinners while taking the medication.

ISAACSON: I will prescribe this drug in the right person at the right dose and in a very carefully monitored way. But this drug is not for everyone.

GUPTA: For Jack, the possibility of continuing to live a full life, spending quality time with all four children and all nine grandchildren, even for just a while longer, well, that is worth the risk as.

DRISCOLL: Far as I'm concerned we're having a great life right now and things are good, and my wife is a wonderful caretaker. So, we get it with each other and we know what we're living with.


TAPPER: Sanjay, do we know how much this treatment is going to cost?

GUPTA: Yes, it's going to be expensive, Jake. $26,500 a year. So, you know, basically, like a new car every year is the cost of the drug. And even though most of these patients will be over the age of 65, there's no guarantee, Jake, that Medicare will cover this. They may cover it only under the auspices of a clinical trial or something. So we'll see on that.

Jake, it's not a home run, but there's been so little progress when it comes to Alzheimer's. This incremental progress is important. And as you saw for someone like Jack, a couple three more years of Alzheimer's, severe Alzheimer's disease, free survival. So, you know, I think it could be significant.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Thank you so much. Turning now to our national lead, still so many unanswered questions after newly revealed court documents offer some insight into the November killing of those Ford University of Idaho college students, including what connections of any murder suspect Bryan Kohberger had with the victim. CNN's Veronica Miracle takes a closer look now into the chilling evidence and reaction from some of the victim's families.


(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Bryan Kohberger, accused in the stabbing deaths of four University of Idaho students, may have cased the scene of the crime four months before the murders, according to new court documents. An affidavit released Thursday reveals police started looking for a white Hyundai Elantra like this one around Thanksgiving, almost two weeks before asking the public for information about the car.

JONH MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: On December 23rd, they get the cell phone record showing the owner of that car has been, what appears to be from the record, staked out in the area of that murder house a dozen times since August.

MIRACLE: Still no details about why the 28-year-old suspect chose this house and whether he knew any of the four victims Ethan Chapin, Xana Kernodle, Madison Mogen, and Kaylee Goncalves. Kaylee's father says he believes his daughter and her friends were hunted.

STEVEN GONCALVES, FATHER OF VICTIM: So, you read the affidavit and you just find out that nobody understands exactly why, but he was stalking them, he was hunting them. He was just a person looking for an opportunity and just happened to be in that house. And that's hard to take.

MIRACLE: The affidavit also revealing around four in the morning, one of the surviving roommates heard crying coming from Xana Kernodle's room and a voice say, it's OK, I'm going to help you. That roommate then opened the door and saw a dark figure in black clothing and a mask walk past her, raising the question, why did no one call 911 until noon on Sunday?

GONCALVES: I do know that she was petrified, and I think people respond different. I think she was just scared, very scared. It's not like Hollywood where everyone behaves like people think they would.

MIRACLE: According to the affidavit, DNA evidence also led police to the suspect. A knife sheath was left one of the victim's beds that contained DNA similar to Kohberger's father's DNA found in the family's garbage, according to those documents.

A law enforcement source tells CNN, as authorities were surveilling the Kohberger family home, they witnessed Kohberger putting trash in a neighbor's bin and were able to extract it for DNA comparison.

MILLER: The surveillance team that's watching from a pretty great distance sees him come out and clean the car from top to bottom, inside and out, using surgical gloves.

MIRACLE: In court on Thursday, Kaylee Goncalves's father was in the front row, and he was pointedly staring at Kohberger.

GONCALVES: You know, he picked the wrong family and not scared of a conflict. And we're not scared. We're not running. We're coming at him, and the defendant has his hands full.

(END VIDEOTAPE) MIRACLE: ANd Jake, since the beginning, there have been a lot of questions about why a 911 call wasn't made sooner. I think this affidavit raises even more questions. I do want to mention that I spoke with the Lahtaw County coroner weeks ago, right after this happened, and I asked her, if a 911 call had been made sooner, could lives have been saved? She said no. Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Veronica Miracle in Moscow, Idaho. Thank you so much. Coming up, the evolution of a man once considered one of the most influential Republican voices of his time, Rudy Giuliani.



TAPPER: Rudy Giuliani, the former New York City mayor who became a hero to many in the aftermath of 9/11, is now facing a litany of legal troubles. The new CNN original series, "Giuliani: What Happened to America's Mayor?" reveals some of the reasons behind the epic rise and fall of this larger than life politician. Our Brynn Gingras takes a closer look now at Giuliani's mounting legal battles.


OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: He's the mayor of New York City. Ladies and gentlemen, Rudy Giuliani.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voiceover): Once lauded as a voice of leadership, resilience, leading New York City and the country through one of its darkest times.

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER NEW YORK MAYOR: Today is obviously one of the most difficult days in the history of the city.

GINGRAS: Rudy Giuliani now facing --

KEN FRYDMAN, FORMER AIDE TO RUDY GIULIANI: Legal jeopardy. I think he's going to be in and out of courtrooms, in and out of grand jury.

GINGRAS: America's mayor has become a punchline. Using his voice to spread conspiracies and lies about the 2020 election being stolen.

GIULIANI: I know crimes. I can smell him.

GINGRAS: As former President Donald Trump's personal attorney and mouthpiece.

TAPPER: I do not think that Rudy Giuliani understands that there has been tremendous erosion of his reputation that he has caused at all. He looks in the mirror and he sees the hero of 9/11.

GIULIANI: Let's have trial by combat.

GINGRAS: Some lawmakers argued his words on January 6 played a part inciting the violence that followed at the Capitol.

REP. BENNIE THOMPSON (D-MI): If the faith is broken, so is our democracy.

GINGRAS: The House Select Committee says Giuliani fueled the former president's inclination to declare victory.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): President Trump rejected the advice of his campaign experts on election night and instead followed the course recommended by an apparently inebriated Rudy Giuliani to just claim he won.

GINGRAS: Giuliani spokesperson denies the committee's allegations. In 2021, federal prosecutors in New York and office Giuliani once led raided his apartment in connection with his business dealings in Ukraine. That case fizzled.

FRYDMAN: The fact that the Feds didn't bring charges has to encourage him.

GINGRAS: But Giuliani may not be as lucky in Georgia, where prosecutors say he is a target of an ongoing criminal probe examining efforts to overturn the 2020 election.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you expecting to talk about here today?

GIULIANI: Well, they asked the questions and we'll see.


GINGRAS: He was ordered to testify before a special grand jury this past summer.

FYRDMAN: The man who used the RICO statute to put away the five heads of the mafia is now, you know, potentially the subject of a RICO action in Georgia.

GINGRAS: And more, Giuliani is suspended from practicing law in New York and facing disbarment in Washington DC for pushing election lies.

GINGRAS (on camera): How do you see Rudy's legacy ending?

FRYDMAN: It's going to be a mixed bag at best, and that's a shame.

GINGRAS (voiceover): Brynn Gingras, CNN, New York.


TAPPER: And our thanks to Brynn Gingras. The CNN original series, "What Happened to America's Mayor?" airs Sunday night at 9:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific. Coming up Sunday on State of the Union, Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw will join me on the state of his party as this messy vote for House Speaker plays out. Also Sunday, the new House Minority Whip, democratic Congresswoman Catherine Clark. That's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern and again at noon only here on CNN.

But first, what could be the final vote for House Speaker? Place your money now. Place your bets. Join me tonight for CNN special coverage. The House is going to gavel back in at 10:00 p.m. Eastern and Erin Burnett and I will be here for all of it. "THE SITUATION" with Wolf Blitzer is up next. Is a key remaining Republican holdout? Tell CNN he will not vote for McCarthy. Who is it? Wolf will tell you.