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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Fight Over Debt Ceiling Could Cause Global Economic Crisis; Alec Baldwin, Armorer To Be Charged In Fatal Movie Set Shooting; Far- Right Republicans Given Powerful Committee Assignments; New Zealand Prime Minister Announces Resignation, Cites Burnout; Supreme Court Says It Has Yet To Identify Who Leaked Draft Opinion Overturning Roe V. Wade. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 19, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:24]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The treasury secretary sounded the alarm.

THE LEAD starts right now.

Extraordinary measures are now underway as the United States of America hits its limits on debt. How this sets up a showdown for Congress in the White House as Republicans vowed to cut future spending before agreeing to pay the bills before they're already do.

Stunning news. Actor Alec Baldwin is going to be charged with involuntary manslaughter in the tragic deadly shooting of cinematographer Halyna Hutchins on the "Rust" movie set. The actor is gearing up for a legal fight, while Hutchins family is weighing in.

And new reaction to the shocking announcement by New Zealand's prime minister. Why its popular, celebrated leader, Jacinda Ardern, really resigning?

(MUSIC)

Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we start today with our money lead. Growing fears of a looming economic crisis that could affect every single American today. The United States officially hit our debt ceiling, that's the limits set by the U.S. Congress on how much the federal government can borrow to pay its bills. We're not talking about new spending.

This is money the United States government currently owes. It is on Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill to agree to raise that limit. If they do not, the United States government would theoretically default on its debt. It's hard to know exactly how this could get, because the United States has never intentionally defaulted before.

Think of it this way though, if you never missed a credit card payment, you probably have a decent credit score. When you start missing payments however, your score takes a big hit. And it will cost more for you to borrow money, which is something the U.S. government does shamelessly, borrow money.

And the same conditions are true for the U.S. government. The cost of borrowing will go up. And when the U.S. government has to pay more to borrow money, that can and will be passed on to you. It could lead to higher mortgage, credit card payments, it get your 401(k). We also know if the government cannot pay its bills, payments for veterans, social security and Medicare recipients will not get made.

And when family start to feel the pinch of all this, they span last, which could ultimately lead to a recession. And even more major job losses. All of which is to say, this could theoretically get really, really bad. So, why isn't Congress acting?

Well, Republicans who now control the House say they will not raise the debt limit, without negotiations on agreements on future spending cuts. And Democrats in the Senate, Democrats in the White House, say they're not willing to negotiate on this obligation of the U.S. government. All of which leads you and your wallet and the U.S. economy and some sort of impasse.

CNN's Manu Raju starts our coverage from Capitol, where neither party right now seems to be ready to concede.

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MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Congress and the White House now engaged in a risky standoff, as the U.S. reaches its $31.4 trillion borrowing limit. The White House and congressional Democrats say no negotiations to raise the debt ceiling and no conditions attached.

Speaker Kevin McCarthy says the opposite.

Is a clean debt ceiling off the table?

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I don't see why you would continue the past behavior.

RAJU: Just raising the debt ceiling without any conditions, would you be open to that?

MCCARTHY: No. I mean, well --

We're six months away, why wouldn't we sit down now and change this behavior, that we would put ourselves on a more fiscally strong position.

RAJU: Congress likely has until June to avoid of all, and allow the U.S. to pay bills already incurred. That has happened 61 times since 1978, including three times under President Trump, with little GOP pushback.

But to win the speakership on the 15th ballot, McCarthy cut a deal with the hard right, but the House would not raise the debt ceiling without commensurate fiscal reforms.

Also agreed, to allow anyone member to call a vote for his ouster. A dilemma that could grow real as a prospect of default nears.

Do you think that you may pull the vacate the chair if he doesn't follow his concessions?

REP. LAUREN BOEBERT (R-CO): I mean, that's what vacate is for, but I don't anticipate using it. I hope I never have to.

RAJU: A first ever default could derail the world's largest economy.

SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): We've seen this move before. I've been here 12 years. I don't think that ended well-funded before. I don't think it won't end well for them now.

RAJU: In 2011, when a GOP House battled the Democratic president, the U.S. saw its credit rating downgraded, and some cuts enacted in a deal to raise debt limit were later reversed.

[16:05:09]

KAREN JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: There will not be any negotiation over the debt ceiling. We will not do that. It is their constitutional duty.

RAJU: Yet swing GOP votes reject that the White House position.

REP. DUSTY JOHNSON (R-SD): But what in the world are we doing here for not willing to have a serious conversation about spending?

REP. NANCY MACE (R-SC): I made a commitment that I'm not personally, I'm just one person not going to vote to raise the debt ceiling for don't have a plan, to cut spending or balance the budget.

RAJU: Republican Brian Fitzpatrick, who hails from a blue district, told CNN, I don't think that the clean debt ceiling is an order. He said he's now trying to find a bipartisan deal.

That may require Senate GOP leader Mitch McConnell, whose engineered ways out of a debt crisis in the past.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): No, I would not be concerned about a financial crisis.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RAJU (on camera): There's some belief in the capital that perhaps the Senate can cut a deal and essentially jam the House. Force them to vote on this. There's a process to circumvent the Republican leadership that's called a motion to discharge. A petition that would have to win 218 members sign on to it, that would be 212 Democrats, six Republicans to actually force a vote in the House.

But in talking to the swing those house Republicans, they're not ready to go to that position yet, particularly as the White House refuses to negotiate -- John Bacon told, me I'm not in favor of Biden's no negotiating strategy. And I'm not inclined to help.

TAPPER: All right. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks.

To the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue and CNN's Phil Mattingly at the White House.

Phil, are there any indications that the White House maybe even slightly more willing to negotiate Republicans over any of this today?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jake, I checked in with several White House officials based on some of Manu's reporting about those critical moderate bloc in the House Republican conference. And response I got from one was no, period, negotiations, period.

They have not moved off that. There's any -- not any sense there going to anytime soon. And in part, because they don't believe this is something that should be negotiated over. Many of them were in the Obama administration in 2011, 2013.

And as one point, we shouldn't have to deal with this with a gun pointed to our heads. The idea being that this is an obligation of lawmakers who passed the laws to allocate the spending in the first place. This is not something that should be used as a point of leverage.

Now, keep in mind, Manu laid out the timeline, and that's important here. There are several months where this will play out. And it's anybody got whether or not the sector negotiations will actually launch.

When we talk to officials, they made clear that time is important. They've been on Capitol Hill, the legislative team meeting with new members of Congress, trying to get an idea of where things stand and where things may land. But I think the biggest thing you hear from White House officials right now and something that's not a scattershot idea. It was thought through and planned through with both House Democrats and Senate Democrats, is they simply are not willing to gavel discussions about this, their pathway out of it -- well, they say that it's up to Congress clearly as Manu just acknowledge. There's no plan on Capitol Hill to get out of this.

One thing to keep in mind, and one thing to keep an eye on, as Manu noted, Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, he appeared with President Biden just a couple of weeks ago in Kentucky at an event. They have a relationship. They work through deals in the past. It may be one way that they try and find an avenue out of this, Jake.

TAPPER: Yeah. The Senate, of course, is not the issue.

Phil Mattingly at the White House, thanks so much.

Let's bring in CNN business correspondent Rahel Solomon.

Rahel, we touched on a few ways how this could affect Americans including higher interest rates, higher credit card payments, et cetera. This also could theoretically lead to a recession. Explain how. RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, as you know,

the U.S. economy is already in a delicate place for reasons that you and I talk about a lot on this program. But as Mark Zandi, the chief economist of Moody's told me a few hours ago, Jake, the closer we get to not being able to pay our debt, the closer we get to a recession.

Here's why, if the U.S. actually defaulted on its debt which it has never intentionally as you pointed out -- well, that would set off a chain of reactions. First, you would have suddenly people, government contractors, vendors and such not being paid, a whole slew of people suddenly not being paid. But you've also have rates for government debt going up.

At this point, the U.S. government debt is considered basically risk- free. A safe haven investment but if suddenly investors start to feel like the U.S. government can't pay its debts, can't pay its obligation, well, that -- those rates go up then that has an impact on all sorts of consumer borrowing, as you pointed out, think higher mortgage rates, think a higher small business loan, higher auto loans, credit card rates, all of those things, it would have an impact to the financial markets as this creates quite a bit of jitteriness.

One market strategist, Jake, put it to me this way, this will end up being the most serious debt crisis in the nation's history. There will be a credible risk of default and it may not be resolved until the very last minute. So, how serious could the crisis be?

Well, Jake, it all hinges on what I'm told, all hinges on how long it takes lawmakers to get its house in order.

TAPPER: How long would it take for the U.S. economy to recover theoretically if the U.S. government did default on its loans?

SOLOMON: Well, easily, years, right? And there's also the representational damage to us as a nation but also, Jake, I like the analogy you used this terms of making it in terms of our personal credit score and personal impact.

Think about when you start missing payments and your credit score takes a hit. It takes a long time to get it back to a good place. I think that applies here as well.

TAPPER: All right. Rahel Solomon, thanks so much.

Joining us, Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania. He's the ranking Democrat on the House Budget Committee. He joins us live from the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland.

So, Congressman, you're in Davos with political and economic leaders from around the world. What's the sense that you're getting from them about how they watch this U.S. debt crisis really start to kick in?

REP. BRENDAN BOYLE (D-PA): Yeah, thanks, Jake. I would say, first and foremost, the situation or war in Ukraine has been the dominant discussion area or theme of this forum, but second to that I would say is not just the debt ceiling, but what is increasingly dysfunction that world leaders or NGOs or basically anyone who is here in Davos has been commenting on. So many people brought up to me, by the way, the 15 rounds and 4 days it took on the vote for speaker.

So we can't just look at the debt ceiling in isolation. It's just one more issue area in which the U.S. specifically the U.S. Congress is looking dysfunctional and sending the wrong message to the rest of the world.

TAPPER: Republicans say they are willing to come to the table to discuss raising the debt ceiling but also want to discuss negotiations to reduce future government spending. And, look, I don't need to tell you, you're the ranking Democrat on the budget committee, the U.S. government spends a lot more money than it takes in. This is a problem. We spend too much money just paying the interest on our debt.

Are you willing to at least sit down and see if there is a deal to be made in any way?

BOYLE: Well, first, let's be clear. The debt ceiling is not about future spending. It's about past spending. Much of which, by the way, happened under a Republican Congress and a Republican president. After all, 25 percent of our entire national debt happened during in the four years that Donald Trump was president.

So there should be no negotiation or question whatsoever about whether or not the United States will pay the bills we already racked up.

In terms of future hypothetical discussion, look, our funding for the next year doesn't kick in yet. We only have government funding through September 30th so obviously every year there are discussions about future spending, they will take place regardless of the debt ceiling issue.

TAPPER: Yeah, I mean I want to read this quote from Trump's Office of Management and Budget Director Mick Mulvaney.

He told "The Dispatch", the truth of the matter the first two years of the Trump administration when the Republicans had the House and Senate, we raised spending than the last couple years of the Obama administration. So I get it. I hear your point, the point you're making.

But the point I'm making is whether under Bush or Obama or Trump or Biden, we spend more money as a country than we take in. And it is bad for the economy in the long term, not only because of the trillions we owe, but because of how much we have to spend every year just on the interest on that debt.

So I mean do you agree with the idea that this is a problem, that what I just laid out?

BOYLE: Yeah, so first in terms of your premise, I think we should really think hard about that. Let's not forget in 2011, after Republicans took over the Tea Party wave, immediately Congress and then president Obama shifted to deficit and debt. Most mainstream economists believe today that that was premature, that, in fact, the great recession, the recovery from it was actually prolonged.

Now here we are and this is something that's come up here at the World Economic Forum. We may be heading into a recession this year, either in Q3 or Q4. So rather than shifting immediately to deficit and debt, let's actually focus on the current economic conditions today.

Finally, I just have to point out, the deficit has dropped by more than 50 percent in the last two years, the deficit has dropped more under President Biden than any other previous president and final point, this is really the final point, the very first bill Republicans passed taking over Congress two weeks ago was a bill that would have increased the deficit by more than $108 billion. So it's really hard to take them as credible on this issue.

TAPPER: Is it one of the reasons the deficit has gone down so much because the COVID emergency spending isn't happening like it did in 2020 and 2021? Isn't that one of the primary reasons the deficit has gone down so much?

BOYLE: Yeah, I would say there are two reason, first, the fact the deficit went up so much under Trump creates a higher baseline for us.

[16:15:01]

The second thing, though, and let's not forget what this administration and Democrats in Congress did, the fact that we were able to recover more quickly than any other country on Earth from the pandemic has absolutely enabled our ability to bring down the deficit and to bring jobs to what is now unemployment at a 50-year low.

TAPPER: What do you say to somebody out there who is watching and says, you know what, I don't have a horse in this fight, I just don't want this economic crisis? It just seems like, you know, yes, Congress should raise the debt ceiling and pay for things that have already been allocated or the money we already owe but also like there's no sense in Democrats and Republicans pretending we're not spending too much money.

BOYLE: Yah, you know, I would say two things to those and, by the way, I have constituents who just want to see the trains run on time and get worried about what they see from Washington.

The first thing I would say and I was glad Mr. McConnell said much the same as what I'm about to say and that is that we will ultimately raise the debt ceiling. I am confident that this will happen. So while it might not be the cleanest process, I do believe ultimately we will raise the debt ceiling, there are still enough responsible people in Washington, D.C. that will get it done.

The second thing I would say, though, is and I'm the author of a piece of legislation called the Debt Ceiling Reform Act. The debt ceiling is ironically an accident of history that was created more than a century ago, believe it or not, to make it easier for the Treasury Department to pay off our debts. It has far outlived its usefulness.

This process is broken and dysfunctional. We need to reform it so that way this becomes the last debt ceiling showdown we ever have to go through.

TAPPER: All right. Democratic Congressman Brendan Boyle of Pennsylvania, inexplicably in Switzerland instead of getting ready for the Eagles game this weekend, thanks so much for joining us. Appreciate it.

Coming up --

BOYLE: I will be -- I'll be back in Philly Saturday.

TAPPER: Oh, okay. We'll see. We'll see.

The first hearing now on the calendar for the high-profile House Oversight Committee and Republicans are showing their hand with their first focus but first a prosecutor's reasoning behind the charges announced today against Alec Baldwin more than a year since the deadly shooting on that "Rust" movie set.

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TAPPER: Actor Alec Baldwin is facing involuntary manslaughter charges in the 2021 "Rust" movie shooting that took place in Santa Fe, New Mexico. The film's armorer who is responsible for how weapons were handled on the set is also facing charges. Cinematographer Halyna Hutchins was killed by a live round of ammunition fired from a prop gun that Baldwin was holding.

As CNN's Josh Campbell reports from us now, despite the actor's claims that he never pulled the trigger, prosecutors are absolutely convinced they say that he did.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A stunning twist to the "Rust" movie set tragedy. Prosecutors in New Mexico say they'll charge the film's star and producer Alec Baldwin along with armorer Hannah Gutierrez-Reed with two counts of involuntary manslaughter.

MARY CARMACK-ATWIES, DISTRICT ATTORNEY: This was a really fast and loose set that nobody was doing their job. There were three people that if they had done their job that day, this tragedy wouldn't have happened and that's David Halls, Hannah Gutierrez-Reed and Alec Baldwin.

CAMBPELL: Set in the old West, "Rust" was filming outside of Santa Fe. Baldwin and crew members were rehearsing inside a church when a prop gun in the actor's hand discharged.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have two injuries from a movie gunshot.

CAMPBELL: Killing cinematographer Halyna Hutchins and wounding director Joel Souza. Assistant director Dave Halls who handed Baldwin the gun has already pleaded guilty to negligent use of a deadly weapon. Baldwin has repeatedly claimed that he pulled the gun's hammer as far as he could without cocking and released the hammer.

Telling CNN and others --

ALEC BALDWIN, ACTOR: Well, the trigger wasn't pulled. I didn't pull the trigger.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC NEWS HOST: So you never pulled the trigger.

BALDWIN: No, no, no, I would never point a gun at anybody and pull the trigger, never. That was the training that I had. You don't point a gun at somebody and pull the trigger.

CAMPBELL: District Attorney Mary Carmack-Altwies disagrees.

CARMACK-ALTWIES: Every person that handles a gun has a duty to make sure that if they're going to handle that gun, point it at someone and pull the trigger, it is not going to fire a projectile and kill someone. An actor doesn't get a free pass just because they're an actor.

CAMPBELL: Baldwin's attorney says he will fight the charges calling the decision a miscarriage of justice and Mr. Baldwin had no reason to believe there was a live bullet in the gun or anywhere on the movie set. He relied on the professionals with whom he worked who assured him the gun did not have live rounds.

An attorney for Gutierrez-Reed calls the charges wrong and believes the armorer will be found not guilty by a jury and did not commit manslaughter. She's been emotional about the tragedy but has committed no crime.

JENNIFER ROGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It's not clear there is criminal liability. Given all the circumstances I'm not seeing that. I'm looking forward to what they are going to prove. This is an aggressive charge and I'm not sure they have it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMPBELL (on camera): Now, Jake, the family of Halyna Hutchins, the cinematographer killed in that incident, has released a statement, I'll read part of that. They say our independent investigation also supports that charges are warranted. It is a comfort to the family that in New Mexico, no one is above the law.

We support the charges and we'll fully cooperate with this prosecution and fervently hope the justice system works to protect the public and hold accountable those who break the law.

As far as what happen next, the district attorney here told me that charges will be filed by the end of the month. At that time, Alec Baldwin will receive a summons to appear either here in person behind me or via video conference and then this prosecution will get under way. We, of course, expect that Alec Baldwin and his team will aggressively fight these charges, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Josh Campbell for us in Santa Fe, New Mexico, thanks so much.

Joining us to discuss, attorney and legal affairs commentator, Areva Martin.

Areva, good to see you.

Santa Fe's district attorney says it was Alec Baldwin's responsibility as an actor and producer on the film to check the gun before pulling the trigger. What is the likelihood do you think of Baldwin being found guilty of these involuntary manslaughter charges?

AREVA MARTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jake, we know there's a higher standard of proof when talking about criminal charges and the jury would have to find beyond reasonable doubt that he is guilty of involuntary manslaughter. And we know with respect to celebrities, it is difficult to get a conviction for someone as high-profile as Alec Baldwin.

[16:25:04]

But I agree with the prosecutor's assessment. Everything we heard about that set is consistent with how she described it, as fast and loose. We know there were text messages from the armorer saying she was stretched too thinly, that she had too much work and didn't have enough support.

We know she herself had good experience as it relates to the type of job she was supposed to do. We know the crew members had walked off the set because of their concerns about safety. So when you look at the totality of the evidence, it does look like it was a set where there were lots of safety violations and lots of safety lapses and those safety lapses in this situation led to the death of Halyna Hutchins.

TAPPER: That's interesting. So do you think then that his liability as a producer, as an experienced individual who has made lots of movies before and the fact that he's a producer in which this set was -- did not have safety standards up to snuff might actually be as important if not even possibly more important than whether or not he pulled the trigger?

MARTIN: I think for certain, Jake, that the role that Alec Baldwin played on this movie being both an actor and a producer factored into the district attorneys or the prosecutor in this case's decision to charge him. He knew or should have known about these safety lapses and he was in the chain of command, you know, one of the people that handled this gun and what that prosecutor said is it would be unimaginable to charge the armorer, to charge the props director and not charge the person who pulled the trigger.

We know Alec Baldwin said he didn't pull the trigger but there's FBI reporting that suggests that the trigger was, in fact, pulled and that, you know, it was because of the pulling of the trigger and pointing of the gun at Hutchins that led to her death.

TAPPER: The Santa Fe district attorney told CNN's Josh Campbell that we may never know how the live ammunition got on set. Wouldn't that detail be critical to the case? Wouldn't that be something that the defense attorneys could point to and say, that's the most important thing, aspect of this crime and we still don't even have an answer for that? How can you convict?

MARTIN: I think it's going to be an issue and I think the defense in addition to that argument is going to make the argument that David Halls shouted out, cold, meaning that there wasn't a live weapon -- I mean live ammunition in that gun and that Alec Baldwin relied on that statement from the director. He relied on those professionals whose job it was to make sure that gun was safe and he's going to make the claim that that is what the protocol is in the industry.

But we know George Clooney and others have talked about their, you know, protocols and how they handle situations when a gun is involved on a set and George Clooney said whenever anyone gives me a gun I'm doing my own safety check. I'm just not relying on the people on that set. I'm making sure there's nothing contained in that gun that could cause anyone any kind of injury and definitely not death.

So even though that answer may never be known in terms of how that live ammunition got on the set I think the bigger question is going to be more safety protocols and were they followed and the district attorney says they were not.

TAPPER: Areva Martin, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, the message House Republicans are sending with a key hearing announced and the voices they might be empowering to make the case.

Stay with us.

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[16:33:05]

TAPPER: In our politics lead, buckle up -- that's what new House Oversight Committee member, Lauren Boebert, tweeted today after the committee said its first hearing for February 6th, on the southern border crisis.

This comes less than 24 hours after the committee unveiled its full list of members, which includes some Republicans who have in the past push deranged conspiracy theories.

A list that includes Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene, who in 2018 claimed that a plane did not hit the Pentagon on 9/11, which, of course, it did and has threatened violence against Democrats. Congressman Paul Gosar, who appeared as, with Greene, at a white supremacist conference. Congressman Scott Perry, key figure who try to help Trump subvert 2020 election results based on election lies. And, of course, Boebert, who's once said she hopes QAnon is real.

Joining us now is former Republican Congresswoman Mia Love from Utah, who has a new book out this week called, "Qualified". She's also a CNN political commentator.

I want to get to your great book in one second. But I do have to ask you about Speaker Kevin McCarthy, giving such important platforms on the oversight committee to members who have said such controversial, indeed offensive things.

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I don't think that's what Kevin's worried about right now, what people have said in the past. He's worried about the fact that in the negotiations, that it only takes one voice, one person to call to vacate the speaker seat. So, he's showing his commitment to those people that he's going to do whatever he can to have that be part of the budget process.

So, I'm not -- he's obviously not worried about what they said in the past, or whether they're election deniers, or whether they support or didn't support Donald Trump. He's more worried about making sure he's able to keep his seat as speaker.

TAPPER: Last night, Marjorie Taylor Greene told Fox News that she was removed from committees because Nancy Pelosi didn't like what was on our Facebook page from the years before she was in Congress.

[16:35:08]

And she says McCarthy is doing the right thing putting her back on the committee. She's on Homeland Security. She's on Oversight. What do you think? Do you agree that McCarthy is doing the right?

LOVE: You know what I've noticed. You know what I've noticed, I've noticed that the seats that are given to members of Congress were seats that were previously in. I've been watching this, and I'm looking at where they've come before, and where they're going into.

Most of the seats that members of Congress are going into, this session, our seats that they previously served in or they served in and were removed by Nancy Pelosi. The only committee that got additional seats, whereas the Appropriations Committee, and that's where you're seeing some additional -- his commitments towards the group that really wants to do about the debt ceiling, the group that saying, hey, our budget is out of control, our spending is out of control, we want to be part of this process so we could make sure we're not reaching that debt ceiling over and over again.

TAPPER: I guess I understand why is doing, and I wonder what you think about it because you have always carried yourself with dignity and respect. You haven't trafficked conspiracy theories.

I'm wondering what you think about Kevin McCarthy putting some of these people who have said crazy things, on to white supremacists conferences, and putting them on important committees?

LOVE: Well, like I said in my book, I think what we need to do as a conference, as a country, is make sure that we're supporting electing people and giving people positions that lead with character. People -- when you look at Santos, for instance, that's not a person that was leading by the content of his character. The integrity, honesty, it means something. It means something to the American people.

It also tells us how you're going to behave in the future, how you're going to vote in the future. If I were speaker I would make sure the people I trust, people that have high integrity and honesty are the ones that are leading in these big committees, with policies that the American people can trust will help them.

TAPPER: In your book, "Qualified", which just came out this week. Find your voice leading with character in planning others, you tell your life story, which is very inspiring. You talk about your experience in Congress.

And then I also wonder, you talked quite a bit about Republicans struggling to get minority votes. You write, quote, Republicans never take minority communities into their home and citizens into their hearts. They stay with Democrats, bureaucrats in Washington, because at least they make them feel like they have a home.

How do you change that? How can Republicans turn that around do you think?

LOVE: They need to go to places where they feel they're what wanted but needed. They need to go to places like I talk about a woman that I visited in Baltimore with Elijah Cummings, and how, I was able to sit down and have her tell me, her raw, sometimes ugly, but incredibly important story.

That's the only way you're going to be able to let people know that you care about them. Bring them home, what I mean by bring them home, bring them into your heart. Let them know that you care about who they are, what they're going through, with their struggling land.

TAPPER: The book is "Qualified: Finding Your Voice Leading with Character and Empowering Others". The guest is former Congresswoman Mia Love, Republican of Utah.

Thank you so much. Congratulations on the book which is out now.

LOVE: Thank you, Jake. Enjoy it, Jake. It is an ode to anybody that feels like they're not qualified to know that, all of their experiences is what gives them the ability to serve their country.

TAPPER: That's great. Thank you so much.

Coming up, she faced a tough reelection bid, and falling poll numbers, but New Zealand's prime minister didn't mention any of that when explaining why she's, quote, all of a sounding stepping down.

Stay with us.

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[16:43:06]

TAPPER: In our world lead, stepping down on her own terms, New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says she no longer has, quote, enough in the tank to lead that country for another term, so she will not seek reelection after nearly six years in office.

CNN's Ivan Watson has more now on the mixed reaction across the island nation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The most famous politician in New Zealand's history dropped a bombshell at her political party's annual retreat.

JACINDA ARDERN, NEW ZEALAND PRIME MINISTER: So, today, I'm announcing that I will not be seeking reelection. And my term as prime minister will conclude no later than the 7th of February.

WATSON: After five and a half years in office, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says she is suffering from burnout.

ARDERN: I know what this job takes. I know that I no longer have enough in the tank to do it justice.

WATSON: The announcement stunned members of her Labour Party, and drew mixed responses across the island nation.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think she was an excellent leader. I'm devastated.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think her legacy, internationally, will be good. And locally, her reputation's gone.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was awesome, she did everything she could during the pandemic. She kept people safe. Yeah, I think she's going to have a great legacy.

WATSON: Ardern is New Zealand's youngest prime minister. A leader who gave birth to her daughter Neve during her first full year in office, and then went on to phase two once in a generation crises.

In 2019, New Zealand's deadliest terror attack. Ardern helped to comfort a traumatized country, after a white supremacist gunman attacked two mosques in Christchurch, killing 51 people. She then banned military-style semiautomatic rifle like the one used in the attack.

During the first threatening months of the COVID pandemic --

[16:45:01]

ARDERN: You are not alone. You'll hear us and see us daily.

WATSON: Ardern's compassionate leadership prompted a surge in popularity, followed by a landslide election victory.

But over the last year, post-COVID economic woes have battered the prime minister.

BRYCE EDWARDS, POLITICAL SCIENTIST, VICTORIA UNVERSITY OF WELLINGTON: I think the real reason Ardern's going is that she's lost popularity. So, the opinion polls here has really plummeted for her government, and for her personally.

WATSON: Now, Ardern, no longer faces a potentially different a reelection campaign. Instead, she plans to focus on her family.

ARDERN: And so, to Neve, mama's looking forward to being there when you start school this year. And to Clark, let's finally get married.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATSON (on camera): So, that's Ardern there, Jake, addressing her partner, Clark Gayford.

Now, one former prime minister, a predecessor of Ardern, is Helen Clark. She put out a statement applauding Ardern, but pointing out that she thinks she faced a level of vitriol and hatred that was unprecedented for this country have some 5 million people. The New Zealand police that they'd seen an increase, here on the, air of threats against Ardern, during her first three years in office. She did not say that this contributed to her decision.

Aside from spending time with her family, she says she has no plans for what's next in her career -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Ivan Watson, thanks so much for that report. Appreciate it.

New report is out about the leak of that Supreme Court decision that overturned Roe v. Wade. So, is the leak now a plug? What's the marshal of the court have to say?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:51:13]

TAPPER: Today, the U.S. Supreme Court announced its marshal has not been able to figure out who leaked the draft opinion of the Dobbs ruling that overturned Roe versus Wade.

CNN Supreme Court analyst Joan Biskupic joins us now.

Joan, so I'm reading this report and the report from the marshal says that the investigators today to conduct 126 formal interviews of 97 personnel. It also says that some individuals admitted to investigators they told their spouse or partner about the draft opinion, and the vote count in violation of the confidentiality rules.

Does the 97 personnel, does that include Supreme Court justices?

JOAN BISKUPIC, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Not that this report lays out. And likely not.

The nine justices, their spouses, family members were likely not interviewed. It doesn't say it's explicitly. But all information we've been getting over the course of the nine month investigation did not lead us to anyone beyond the courts focus on law clerks and their permanent employees. But it just goes to show you, Jake, no matter how many people they interviewed, they either didn't get the right people or they, but they came up empty. They didn't get any further clues that lead them to who whoever would've done it, led them to how it could've gone.

You mentioned the part about law clerks acknowledging that they talk to their spouses about this. Obviously, a lot of the protocols were violated. But also, you saw from that report, how some other computer systems, their methods of taking care of sensitive documents, whether to destroy or safeguard them, that all of those had shortfalls. They were feeling throughout, some of which suggest that they're trying to fix.

But the bottom line, as they don't know how this happened. So, they don't know what exactly needs the best fix.

TAPPER: It would seem to me, that it would be clear that the Supreme Court justices if they had interviewed the Supreme Court justices, 97 personnel so that would be a deficit in this report -- if you can't as I can think of some people I'd want to ask if they shared with their spouse. Or Supreme Court justice says.

BISKUPIC: Well, the other thing though, Jake, it's a junior officer essentially to the justices doing the questioning. I don't know how much my have been gained by talking to some of the justices about whether he or she leaked it or someone and their family may have leaked. And I know what you're implying, but I think basically that none of the nine would have ever done something like this.

TAPPER: It does also go into some of the facts that there is a lot of speculation, smearing by conservatives about specific clerk for one of the liberal justices. It doesn't go into that detail, but says the speculations about people might have done it, we found no evidence to support any of that.

BISKUPIC: Right, there's been a lot of speculation on social media, some law clerks who look for liberal justices have been named in the speculation.

TAPPER: Really irresponsible.

BISKUPIC: Some conservatives who have been named. But mostly, they were targeting liberals, and justices' report doesn't say specifically any names. But it does say that the social media reports offered nothing illuminating. It went nowhere.

TAPPER: Yeah, and they looked into it. I mean, they made the point of saying, we saw the social media reports. We looked into and funding to support.

Joan, thanks so much for being here.

BISKUPIC: Sure. TAPPER: Coming up, the pressure on two nations, Germany and the United States as Ukrainian government begs for more military aid, especially tanks. Why this particular request is so critical right now.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:11]

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

At this hour, Hollywood's Alec Baldwin now facing involuntary manslaughter charges for that horrible deadly shooting in October of 2021 while filming a scene for the movie "Rust". Why did the district attorney says that she may never know who loaded the live round into that gun.

Plus, new information about how long patient should wait before getting a lifesaving screening? Is it ten years between screenings too long?

And leading this hour, the U.S. Secretary Defense Lloyd Austin's in Germany right now, trying to convince top officials in Germany to send critical tanks to Ukraine. German chancellor is resisting, pushing for the United States and other countries to also send tanks before they agreed to do so. The back and forth is the new test for the NATO alliance in regards to military aid for Ukraine.

CNN's Alex Marquardt now breaks down this brewing diplomatic showdown.