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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Sending Ukraine Controversial Cluster Bombs; Ukraine And Russia Continue Deadly Fight Over Bakhmut; Special Counsel Focusing On Chaotic 2020 White House Meeting; Gunman Sentenced To 90 Consecutive Life Terms; New Record For Hottest Average Temperature; Elon Musk Threatens To Sue Meta Over "Threads" App. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired July 07, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:10]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: He also again criticized trickle-down economics, promoting what's been described as Bidenomics, touting the jobs report adding 209,000 jobs and a historically low unemployment rate.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN HOST: Part of a campaign message, you might say there for 2024.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: What does it mean that the U.S. is now giving cluster bombs to Ukraine?

THE LEAD starts right.

For the first time since the start of Putin's war, Ukraine will be getting an aid package from the U.S. that includes cluster munitions -- bombs that are banned by most countries. President Biden just gave an exclusive interview to CNN where he tried to defend that controversial decision.

And, the special counsel zeroes in on an Oval Office meeting during Donald Trump's final days and office, a meeting described as nuts. Fallout from the exclusive, CNN reporting, and what it tells us about the investigation into Trump and January 6th, and a possible third indictment of Mr. Trump.

Then, he survived the Taliban and decades of war working as an interpreter in Afghanistan during the war, only to be shot and killed while driving a Lyft in the United States. The latest on the search for suspects.

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TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we start today with our world lead. Deadly cluster munitions or bombs, lethal weapon that can disperse hundreds of smaller explosives over an area up to the size of several football fields. Now, the United States is sending these bombs to Ukraine.

Cluster bombs part of a new aid package to help Ukraine beat back the Russian invaders. We should note that these cluster bombs designed to kill troops or take out military tanks, who think will risks of collateral damage, and are highly controversial. Not all of the bombs that are sent flying from the canister or detonating, which means it's possible that they can just sit there for years or decades, essentially creating a minefield waiting to take lives.

Cluster bombs are mostly frowned upon by the international community, 123 countries have vowed not to use them. However, the U.S. is among the other 74 countries that have refused to stop stockpiling, producing, or transferring these cluster bombs, putting the U.S. in the company of countries such as Iran, and North Korea, and Russia, not exactly a shining examples of the moral high ground.

Today, CNN's Fareed Zakaria sat down for an exclusive interview with President Joe Biden at the White House. Biden was asked by Fareed directly about his decision to send these controversial munitions to Ukraine.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN HOST: You have news today, the news is that that misdirection is going to provide cluster munitions to the Ukrainians. These are weapons that 100 nations ban, including some of our closest NATO allies. When there was news that the Russians might be using it admittedly against civilians, your then press secretary then said this might be -- it will constitute war crimes.

What made you change your mind and decide to give them these weapons?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Two things, Fareed. I know it's a very difficult decision on my part. And by the way, I discussed this with our allies. I discussed with our friends up on the Hill. And we are in a situation where Ukraine countries to be brutally attacked across the board by munitions -- by these cluster munition that are -- have a dud rates that is very, very low -- I mean, very high that are danger to civilians, number one.

Number two, the Ukrainians are running out of ammunition. The ammunition, they call them 155 millimeter weapons, this is -- this is a war relating to munitions. And they are running out of that ammunition, and we're low on it.

And so, what I finally did, I took the recommendation of the defense department to not permanently, but to allow for in this transitional period where we get more 155 weapons, these shelves, for Ukrainians, to provide them with something as a very low dud rate. I think it's 150, which is the least likely to be blown.

And it's not used in civilian areas. Trying to get through those trenches and those -- and stop those tanks from rolling. So, it was not an easy decision. And it's -- we're not signatories of that agreement, but I -- it took me awhile to be convinced to do it. But the main thing is they either have the weapons to stop the

Russians now from their -- and keep them from stopping the Ukrainian offensive through these areas. Or they don't, and I think they needed them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[16:05:03]

TAPPER: And you can see all of Fareed's interview with President Biden this Sunday on "GPS", at 10:00 a.m. Eastern, only on CNN.

Let's bring in CNN's Kylie Atwood at the State Department for us.

Kylie, why is the U.S. sending these cluster bombs, which as we have noted, are banned by 123 nations. Why are they sending them to Ukraine?

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Well, listen, Jake, we heard from the national security adviser Jake Sullivan earlier today, who echoed a lot of what President Biden said to CNN that interview. First of all, Russia -- excuse me, Ukraine is running low on ammunition.

So, the Biden administration views providing these cluster munitions as sort of a bridge to help Ukraine at this moment while they are running low, until they get to a point where they are receiving more ammunition from their allies and partners on a monthly basis. He also said that the Ukrainians have provided written assurances to the United States, that they would take measures to make sure that there were not effects that would actually impact civilians to the greatest of their capabilities here. And that is significant because of course as you noted, these cluster munitions are controversial because of the risk that they could pose to civilians down the road.

We also heard from the national security adviser who talked about the fact that there is, of course, this ongoing counteroffensive, a senior Defense Department official said that some have viewed the counter offensive by Ukraine as not going as quickly as they had hoped. So, essentially, they hope that these weapons, these new capabilities are going to help Ukraine in that counteroffensive.

Now, we should also note that earlier this month, just a few weeks ago, we've heard from a senior official at the Defense Department who said that these weapons would be very useful in terms of going after Russia's dug in position on the battlefield for Ukraine. So, essentially, they think it will be useful to them to continue carrying out this fight, and also useful to them in taking on the Russians on the other side.

TAPPER: Kylie, has there been any backlash against the U.S. for doing this?

ATWOOD: Well, listen, we heard a little bit today this afternoon from the spokesperson for the U.N. secretary general, saying that it continues to be their position that they don't want to see the use of cluster munitions on the battlefield. But it's worth noting, Jake, that we have previously heard from the Biden administration officials themselves, just as recently as last year, saying that they've been critical of the Russians who are using these weapons on the battlefield.

Listen to what the ambassador to the United Nations, Linda Thomas- Greenfield, said to CNN just last year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LINDA THOMAS-GREENFIELD, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: We have seen videos of Russian forces moving exceptionally lethal weaponry into Ukraine, which has no place on the battlefield. That includes cluster munitions and vacuum bombs which are banned under the Geneva Convention.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, those are notable comments. But I have to say, Jake, it's worthy of pointing out that we haven't seen widespread criticism of the Biden administration for going ahead with this decision at this moment, with most allies really backing any decisions that could help Ukraine in this counteroffensive that they are currently engaged in -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kylie Atwood at the State Department for us, thank you so much.

Let's bring in retired U.S. Air Force General Philip Breedlove. He's the former NATO supreme allied commander for Europe.

General, thanks for joining us.

You heard President Biden there just defending his choice to send these controversial cluster munitions to Ukraine. What do you think? Do you agree? Do you disagree?

GEN. PHILIP BREEDLOVE (RET.), U.S. AIR FORCE: Jake, I do agree with using these weapons. And the president made some good points as did your other commentator. The fact of the matter is we have held on to them for a very specific need and a very specific part of the world for a very specific war plan. We would not be holding on to them if we didn't see a very important requirement.

Now, on this battlefield, as was explained, Russia is using a very different type. They're munitions leave almost 30 percent behind unexploded. And that is what we are concerned about. And Russia has used these weapons specifically in civilian areas.

Neither would be the case in what we bring to the battlefield. The DPICM has got about a 1.85 degrees, so 30 percent for Russia, 1.05 percent for ours. Very different munition and as the president pointed out, the Ukrainians are going to use them in all the military places.

So, yes, I fall on the side of if they'll allow Ukraine to use these weapons precisely and within those limitations on the battlefield. [16:10:02]

TAPPER: But the counter argument obviously would be, A, that is not -- no unexploded ordinance left behind, 0.5. And, what B, because of the zone of explosion the risk of collateral damage is not inconsiderable, right?

BREEDLOVE: No. We couldn't say it's inconsiderable. But, the fact of the matter is that it will be much more limited in both number and scope because of the way that the Ukrainians have agreed to use them. I must note that the Ukrainians on all of the munitions we have given them have been very attentive to the limitations that we have placed on them.

TAPPER: So, we know Russia, as you noted, and as the ambassador to the U.N. noted Russia has already been using cluster munitions, and sometimes they have killed civilians, sometimes, seemingly intentionally. Are you concerned about how might respond to the news that the U.S. is now going to provide Ukraine with cluster bombs?

BREEDLOVE: Well, I think we all expect Mr. Putin to respond the way he has responded to almost every thing that we do, almost any change we make, he makes these incredibly dire pronunciations, you know? If we give him tanks, we're going to nukes. If we give 'em Patriots, we're going to use nukes.

It's getting very old and trite at this point. I don't consider Mr. Putin's reaction to this as important as the decision that the president made about the requirement to get these munitions to Ukraine.

TAPPER: All right. General Philip Breedlove, thank you so much. We appreciate your time and your perspective.

Meanwhile, Ukrainian officials say they make advances around the embattled eastern city of Bakhmut, where for months as you know blood has spilled from both Ukrainian and Russian forces. Neither side appears willing to let this territory go.

CNN's Ben Wedeman reports for us now from the front lines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): As soon as one artillery round blast toward Bakhmut, a crew rushes to prepare for another. Ukrainian officials report gains around the town that since last year has been the epicenter of the war.

Gun commander Artem has been in the area for months. The task of taking down coordinates and barking orders is now routine. He says he's now half-deaf from the blasts. Yet, he has sensed a change.

It feels like they are often running away, he says, referring to the Russians, and then the order to fire.

There's barely a letup in the distant thud of shelling. The Russians, says this gunner call sign Alres, are falling back, we know because they hit us much less, one or two months ago, there was a lot of incoming, it was scary to be here. Now it's different.

On another flank, the big guns are out, this is Bohdana, the Ukrainian made 155 millimeter self-propelled howitzer. Ukraine claims the Russians have poured as many as 50,000 troops into the defense of the town, dug in deep.

The Russians have fortified their positions and stand strong, Commander Dmytro tells me, but I think that's temporary.

Russian soldiers captured in the battle here told us that the shelling of their positions was relentless. That was a high explosive anti- personnel munition fired in the direction of Russian troops outside Bakhmut.

As soon as they fire, they prepared to fire again.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (on camera): Now, since the beginning of the year and have spent most of my time covering the bloody, bitter battle for Bakhmut, and most of that time, the Ukrainians were on the defensive, really struggling to hold ground. Now, it's the Russians who are on the defensive, under relentless fire from the Ukrainians.

We spoke to Russian prisoners of war who were captured around the battle of Bakhmut. We heard stories of bad morale, bad leadership, no equipment. It really does seem, Jake, that the tide is turning.

TAPPER: All right. Ben Wedeman in eastern Ukraine, thank you so much.

Inside that insane Oval Office meeting between Donald Trump and the so-called team normal and team crazy.

[16:15:01]

Why the special counsel is not focusing on all that drama.

Then, five people possibly bitten by sharks at New York beaches, five in two days. The new tools to track what is in the water.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Now, we're back with our law and justice lead, and the unprecedented behavior by and ensuing criminal charges against the former president for allegedly mishandling classified documents. CNN has exclusively learned that prosecutors are digging into that notorious chaotic meeting in the Oval Office on December 18th, 2020, when Donald Trump considered some of the most extreme proposals to stay in power.

People who attended the meeting say it devolved into screaming and name-calling between the two sides. The two sides later characterized publicly, by Trump's campaign manager, as team normal and team crazy. On team crazy, for this construct, a group of outside advisers

suggesting Trump should invoke martial law and seize voting machines. Team crazy included lawyer Sidney Powell, and Rudy Giuliani, former national security adviser Michael Flynn, and the former CEO of overstock.com, Patrick Byrne. The other side dubbed the team normal, government officials who are vehemently opposed to that plan, including White House counsel Pat Cipollone and White House attorney Eric Herschmann.

[16:20:08]

Here's how those two men, Cipollone and Herschmann, describe what happened that night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAT CIPOLLONE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HIOUSE COUNSEL: I was not happy to say the people in the oval office.

ERIC HERSCHMANN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE ATTORNEY: I was asking like, you claimed that Democrats were working with Hugo Chavez, the Venezuelans, and whoever else.

CIPOLLONE: And we were pushing back and asking one simple question, as a general matter. Where is the evidence?

HERSCHMANN: I think you go to the point that the screaming was completely, completely out there.

Flynn screamed at me that I was a quitter, and he kept on standing up and turning around and screaming at me. At a certain point, I had it with him. I yelled back, either come over or sit your effing ass, back down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I want to bring in CNN's Kaitlan Collins who was part of the team that broke this exclusive reporting.

So, Kaitlan, set the scene for us. This meeting happens December 18th. What else is going on around this time?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN CHIEF CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, I should also note, you heard Eric Herschmann there. At one point, he asked one of the people on team crazy if they even knew who he was and they said, yeah, you're Pat Cipollone. And, obviously, he was not Pat Cipollone.

But, Jake, this meeting is December 18th. It is four days after the Electoral College has just voted to certify President Biden's win. It's eight days after Bill Barr came out in an interview with "The Associated Press", of course, the attorney general at the time and said it was very clear to him there was no widespread election fraud and yet, still, this meeting culminated. It was pretty abruptly arranged, we are told by sources at the time.

And really what it stands out for beyond just being team normal and the team crazy is it was very clearly one of the most desperate attempts that we saw out of many desperate attempts and that period to keep Trump in power. And that's what the group on the left was trying to do. They had this idea of Trump signing an executive order that would direct the military to seize voting machines.

And even this idea was floated at making Sidney Powell a special counsel at that meeting to investigate voter fraud. And so, it's just was ideas like that.

I think the other thing that stands out from the timing here, Jake, is that meeting ends that not. Trump goes upstairs with his White House team, Eric Herschmann, Pat Cipollone, team normal, and the others remain in the White House. They were in the Roosevelt room.

But it is at the end of the night when Trump posted on Twitter at the time that stands out. Clearly, he'd been frustrated with the lack of options for him to stay in power, trying to overturn the election. That's when he turned to January 6th.

And he talks about a big protest happening. He says it will be wild, and really started teasing a hit to what was going to happen, of course, in just a few weeks from then, Jake.

TAPPER: And, Kaitlan, we also learned the Arizona secretary of state has been subpoenaed as part of the investigation.

COLLINS: Yes, we're seeing how just broad and wide ranging Jack Smith's January 6 investigation truly is, because learning as we have, that he is still focused very much on what happened at the Oval Office meeting, is one thing that stands out to Trump sources that I have spoken with.

On Arizona, itself, obviously, we know that he's also been focused on slates of fake electors. We've heard a lot about Georgia and the efforts there to overturn the elections. They did subpoena the secretary of state's office in Arizona, which they've confirmed. They turned over documents to his team. And so, it does just speak to how big this is. As we are kind of reading the tea leaves on what charges could like, here, if there are charges, and really just goes to show how broad this could be.

We don't know what it's going to look like, but we do know that he is asking questions about Sidney Powell, Mike Flynn, and Patrick Byrne, and those who are on team crazy that day.

TAPPER: Tam crazy. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

And be sure to tune in for the official launch of Kaitlan's brand-new show "THE SOURCE WITH KAITLAN COLLINS". It premieres this Monday at 9:00 p.m. Eastern, only here on CNN.

Joining me now to discuss team normal versus team crazy, former Arizona House Speaker Rusty Bowers. He met with the FBI as part of the 2020 election investigation.

Good to see you, Speaker Bowers. Let's start with this Oval Office meeting that's under scrutiny by the

special counsel. When you hear about these discussions, how does it compare with the conversations you had with Trump and Giuliani and other allies after the 2020 election?

RUSTY BOWERS (R), FORMER ARIZONA HOUSE SPEAKER: Well, the good thing about time is that you pick up a lot more pieces. I've had conversations with people in New York, and in Washington, and others have told this little piece and that little piece and this little piece (AUDIO GAP) confused, driven desire that were -- the desire to keep power has just overwhelmed common sense.

[16:25:01]

It was -- it's a little disconcerting.

TAPPER: Yeah, more than a little, I would say.

BOWERS: But it does fit the pattern. It fits the pattern.

TAPPER: You told our Kaitlan Collins -- you told our Kaitlan Collins that you talked to the FBI about this phone call with Trump and Rudy Giuliani after the election, and, also a separate call with just Trump.

What else can you tell us about your interview with the FBI and what you shared with them?

BOWERS: Well, as I mention to her, there wasn't a lot new. It's just very scrupulous (AUDIO GAP) our scheduling as we reconstructed all the events. We -- and we just might everything available to them, and they asked a lot of questions. But nothing really, you know, I didn't have anything to give other than what I had given previously. But it showed, and then, who they were going to talk to, who would we suggest might have more information that could be salient to this point or that point? It's very professional, there wasn't -- there was no (AUDIO GAP) just released right up.

TAPPER: Yeah, one last question for you, sir, because the connection is not great.

Did you ever think what would have happened if you and other Republican election officials, like Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger or Attorney General Bill Barr, or others, if you haven't been there to stand up to Trump's pressure and what might happen in the future? Have you given that any thought?

BOWERS: I have thought of that a lot. And, knowing who was running for the speakership in my state, knowing how he acted, and in sync with this, with his influence and (AUDIO GAP) Mr. Epshteyn, later, that he had said that he had proof and was kind of part of this in the Arizona angle, had he been in my position, I had no doubt that he would have tried to exercise this plenary power of the state legislature to an excessively strange degree that would have had a terrible consequence for our state (AUDIO GAP) and the country.

TAPPER: All right. Former Arizona House Speaker Rusty Powers, thank you so much.

Coming up, the racist gunman who shot and killed 23 people, many of them Latino at a Texas Walmart, he was sentenced today. The victims' families react, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:32:11]

TAPPER: In our law and justice late today, 90 consecutive life terms, 90. That's the sentence imposed today on that racist gunman who killed 23 people and injured 22 others, mostly Latino, in a mass shooting. He was targeting Latinos at El Paso, Texas Walmart in 2019.

The killer subscribed to the false and racist white replacement theory spread far and wide by extremists on the far-right, including some members of Congress and some people on Fox.

CNN's Rosa Flores has been listening as a family members of the victims told their stories in court this week.

And, Rosa, what a traumatic and emotional week.

ROSA FLORES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: You know, Jake, it really has been. The pain and the agony inside that courtroom was palpable. It was difficult to listen to. These individuals, victims, and their families were able to be just feet away from the shooter and directly speak to him.

Today, during the elocution, that is when both parties get to make official statements before the court. There was no dry out in the room. We could see that some of the victims and their families or crying, or they were wiping away tears. As the defense attorney explained that the shooter took full responsibility for the harm that had happened to this community, but then went on to blame the actions by a shooter on mental illness.

The federal prosecutor very quickly, as he opened his statements, said that the United States rejected that and asked the judge to specifically look at the effects of this case. And he led them out. He said a man drove to El Paso, Texas, in 2019 with the intent to shoot and kill immigrants and Mexicans, Mexican Americans in this community, and that at the end of the day, he killed and wounded thousands of people.

Now for the victims, and the families of those victims that were inside that courtroom, it was very difficult for them to be in the same space for the shooter. But some of them said, it was very important for them to be there.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTOPHER MORALES, AUNT KILLED BY EL PASO MASS SHOOTER: I think it is about what is going on in America with all the white supremacists, all the hate. I just also feel that nothing is going to change. Given due diligence and due process to a mass shooter --

DEAN RECKARD, SON OF VICTIM: It's really hard, a lot of it, just hearing what the families had to say. I don't know how you could set for that and not tear up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FLORES: Now the federal judge sentenced the shooter to 98 consecutive life sentences in prison, in a federal prison.

[16:35:05]

And he specifically ordered him to serve these sentences, Jake, at the super max prison in Florence, Colorado -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Rosa, despite getting 90 consecutive life terms, it's my understanding the gunman still might face the death penalty, right?

FLORES: You are absolutely right, because there's a separate state case. In the state case, the shooter faces a capital murder charge which still, the death penalty is on the table in that case. Now the shooter has pleaded not guilty in the state case and the trial has not been set yet -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Rosa Flores, in El Paso, Texas, thank you so much.

Turning to our "Earth Matters" series. Earth is heating up. Yesterday set yet another record for the warmest average temperature on Planet Earth, 63.1 degrees Fahrenheit. The highest since they have been keeping records. That is alarming, that figure, when you consider how the globe is in winter.

This is the fourth day in a row temperatures have broken or tied the record. The earth is not warmer than it was in August 2016, according to the center for U.S. environmental protection.

Parts of the U.S. also broke heat records yesterday. In Arizona, Tucson reached 110 degrees Fahrenheit. West Palm Beach, Florida, hit 97 degrees Fahrenheit. Other cities tied previous record.

Experts say temperatures will likely keep rising in the coming weeks.

Mark Zuckerberg giving Elon Musk 70 million reasons to face off with him. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:40]

TAPPER: In our tech lead, social media titans Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg could soon square off in a courtroom, ahead of their teased billionaire caged brawl, after Musk threatened to sue Meta, Zuckerberg's company, over its new Twitter rival app which is called Threads. Threads has already suppressed 70 million signups it launched just a couple of days ago.

CNN's Audie Cornish is digging into this rivalry.

Audie, what exactly is Twitter accusing Meta of doing here?

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's accusing them of hiring ex- Twitter employees and that those employees had trade secrets, so to speak, to allow them to build basically a copycat app, which is known as Threads, which is built out of the Instagram platform.

Now, there have been many sort of copycat Twitter apps, especially in the aftermath of Elon Musk taking over the company. There was Mastodon. There's something called Blue Sky.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: I'm on Blue Sky, do you want an invite?

CORNISH: I mean, that's the hot ticket, right? Do you want an invite to a --

TAPPER: I can give you one.

CORNISH: -- social media Twitter copycat, like no one knows.

But the reason why Threads was able to take off the way it did because it has an audience of over a billion uses via Instagram.

TAPPER: Right.

CORNISH: And right now, it's safe for brands, which Twitter can't really say it is.

TAPPER: And what are Meta and Zuckerberg saying about how they want Threads, this new travel to Twitter, how they want Threads to be different.

CORNISH: It's interesting because you see Mark Zuckerberg saying that he wants to be a nicer place. The Instagram chief Adam Mosseri also using the same language, that this is going to be a kinder, nicer place than what Twitter has become, which you've experienced as well.

TAPPER: A cesspool.

CORNISH: Well, let's call it freewheeling, and not so safe for brands if they don't want their content next to some of the more heinous styles of speech.

But, you know, one of the things I found interesting is, right away, you had this family foundation of a teenager in the U.K. who had died by suicide and the parents felt it was connected to her social media use. And they put out a statement saying the idea that Mark Zuckerberg wants a kinder, friendlier is absurd.

The idea that he might put, sort of, people over profits in this way, is absurd, in light of what we have learned over the last couple of years about how Facebook has struggled with content moderation. And in the case of Instagram, we learned during the Facebook papers released by Frances Haugen that perhaps they make design choices for engagement rather than protection. We are talking about this in our "Wired for Trouble" documentary which is coming out of the Sunday.

TAPPER: I'm excited, yeah. We've been talking about it for a while.

CORNISH: And I think we have a clip here just to give you a sense of what the families that we met and, of course, the reporting.

TAPPER: Oh, cool.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: What Tammy didn't know at the time was that Selena had figured out how to block her mother from seeing her online life.

TAMMY RODRIGUEZ, SELENA'S MOM: She had saved her fingerprint and I didn't know she had saved in my phone. So, like, if I fall asleep or whatever she would use her fingerprints to get in and change the settings.

Once the pandemic had started, she was posting more, she became more recluse. She was focused on how many likes she has, how many followers she has, how many followers she is losing, who is messaging her.

CORNISH: During the pandemic, when Selena's school and social life moved online, she was regularly messaging with people on these apps. Some she knew, some she did not.

RODRIGUEZ: There were adults that would reach out, which was not aware of until not too long ago. Men. They knew she was a minor.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So we talked to several families who had kids who had suffered during, kind, of TikTok challenges gone awry. That suffered with bullying. That suffered with eating disorders. That suffered with general decline of mental health.

I believe a school district and Seattle is actually suing social media companies over that same idea.

TAPPER: Yeah, I mean, they clearly play a role.

CORNISH: You have kids, do you know how many accounts they have?

TAPPER: I do not. I do not. I do talk to them about social media quite a bit, though.

CORNISH: Right, but there is no way parents can keep up with kids and the social media companies. Both are invested in maintaining, right, their privacy and, good luck, it's not just kind of keeping the teen's door closed, so to speak, or open. It is a whole different ball game.

[16:45:02]

TAPPER: Right, depriving them of access to social media that all the friends have, literally all of their friends have is --

CORNISH: Right, and in many cases create communities, safe for LGBTQ teens, et cetera.

TAPPER: Absolutely. But also, during COVID, it was a lifesaver in some ways.

The Supreme Court declined to hear a case that could have made social media companies liable for the content published on their respective platforms. So, in lieu of that, what recourse to families have other than just, you know, helicopter ring and looking at everything on the phone the whole time?

CORNISH: I know, I mean, admittedly the Supreme Court, it was Supreme Justice Elena Kagan who said, look, we are not the nine greatest Internet experts that ever lived.

TAPPER: I believe that.

CORNISH: Exactly. It also reflected a court that is so divided they were a little bit nervous about messing with the mechanics of the Internet. And, essentially, the Internet is built on this idea that you and I can post something and the companies can be sued for it. So what happens when you and I post something about eating disorders or something toxic or bully someone else? Over and over again, the courts and congress, to some extent, change to lean towards a free speech.

Now I think what these families hope is that this will be a kind of big tobacco moment.

TAPPER: Yeah.

CORNISH: That there will be a critical mass of the public scrutiny that will draw attention to stories around youth, specifically, and that will start to put pressure on legislatures to act. And we are seeing legislation move in California, Utah, Montana. It is dovetailing with the anti-TikTok movement that some governments are pushing because of their geopolitical concerns. But it is like you are watching the birth of a movement. It is led by families and their kids.

TAPPER: Audie Cornish, thank you so much. I can't wait to watch your report, Audie's report, "Wired for Trouble". It's going to air this Sunday on "THE WHOLE STORY WITH ANDERSON COOPER". Again, that's Sunday night at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific, only on CNN.

Thanks, Audie.

He brought his wife and four children to the U.S. to try to escape the Taliban and the violence of Afghanistan after being an interpreter for the U.S. military during the war in Afghanistan. And then he came to the U.S. only to be shot and killed while driving a Lyft in Washington, D.C. What we're learning about the suspect.

Stay with us.

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[16:51:36]

TAPPER: Turning to our national lead, an individual who fled the violence of Afghanistan only to fall victim to gun violence in the United States. Nasrat Ahmad Yar was a husband and father of four. He was a former interpreter for the U.S. Special Forces in Afghanistan.

After the fall of the Afghan government in 2021, Ahmad Yar fled to the U.S. with his wife and children, tried to start a new life and provide for his family. But then Sunday night, Ahmad Yar, decided to take on some extra shifts, he was a rideshare driver for Lyft. And that decision ended up costing him his life.

CNN's Tom Foreman has more details.

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TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Close to midnight, gunfire, four people running. Behind them, police say, is a man left dying in his car.

Investigators have been pouring over the surveillance video all week looking for clues in the apparent murder of 31 year old Nasrat Ahmad Yar, a Lyft driver pulling and extra shift to support his wife and four kids, an immigrant searching for peace after a war torn past.

MOHAMMAD AHMADI, NASRAT AHMAD YAR'S COUSIN: He was a hardworking person. He was a very friendly person. He was happy to be here. He was -- he taught his -- preaching safety and security for himself and for his family.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take cover, take cover!

FOREMAN: Ahmad Yar's path to America started when he served 10 years as a local interpreter for U.S. military forces in his home of Afghanistan. Anyone who took that role knew the risk if the Taliban caught them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If they found me, they'd kill me, and they'd kill my family.

FOREMAN: So when the U.S. military pulled out in 2021, President Joe Biden said this to those Afghans who had helped.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our message to those women and men is clear, there is a home for you in the United States.

FOREMAN: After living under the threat of violence for so long, Ahmad Yar brought his family to a new land with new hopes and now this -- police are offering a reward but so far no news of an arrest.

AHMADI: We just want justice for Nasrat's family in the United States.

(END VIDEOTAPE) FOREMAN: Lyft has expressed its condolences to the family, promised to help out the police as well. So have several veterans groups. They say their heartfelt feelings got out of this family.

And, one of the things that want to note is they could not have done the work they did in Afghanistan without the work of brave people like this and for all the thousands who had been brought here after their service to the U.S., there are others who are still be waiting and hoping to get out.

TAPPER: Yeah. Tom Foreman, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Ukraine has been pushing for NATO membership. CNN's Fareed Zakaria just sat down with President Biden who says Ukraine is not ready for NATO membership. His reasons why at the top of the hour.

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[16:58:51]

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

This is hour, looks like they're going to need a bigger boat. Beaches in New York increasing shark patrols after five people are bitten in the waters off Long Island in just two days.

Plus, a look at that Oval Office meeting during Donald Trump's final days in office that has been described as nuts. Who was there, who was on the phone, and why is special counsel Jack Smith is interested in it?

And leading this hour, as Ukrainian forces struggle on the battlefield, the U.S. government is sending a controversial cluster bombs to Ukraine for the first time. Each canister capable of spreading nearly 90 small explosives over more than seven acres, though some of those munitions do not explode, and those unexploded bombs could harm civilians long after the war is over.

An organization that tracks cluster bombs says more than 90 percent of reported casualties from them have been civilians, 40 percent of them, children, which is why 123 countries have worked to ban cluster bombs. The U.S., Ukraine, Russia, notably, have not.

As Pentagon leaders insist, the ones the U.S. are sending have a less than 3 percent rate of not detonating on contact. They consider that a small right of munitions not going off.

Let's get right to CNN's Natasha Bertrand.

Natasha, in the early days of Putin's war, the Biden administration sounded quite different when talking about cluster bombs.