Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Attorneys Face Fulton County Judge For First Time In Georgia Election Subversion Case; Federal Appeals Court Rules Trump Can Be Sued Over Jan. 6; House Expels GOP Rep. George Santos Over Ethics Violations; Israel Resumes Combat Operations in Gaza; Remembering Supreme Court Justice Sandra Day O'Connor; Pneumonia And Respiratory Illnesses Rise in Children. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 01, 2023 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:31]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Hey, remember that Trump phone call about finding 11,780 votes?

Well, finally, we hear how Trump's lawyers are going to try to defend that.

THE LEAD starts right now.

With cameras a'rollin', Mr. Trump's lawyers appeared in Fulton County, Georgia, and begin their attempt to defend their client. What they presented today before Judge McAfee and what's likely to come down the pike. We're going dive into all of it.

Plus, the cease-fire, regrettably, is over. The White House is blaming Hamas and now Israeli strikes resumed in Gaza, while Prime Minister Netanyahu is facing new criticism and tough questions about warnings his government received and dismissed as recently as last summer about a pending Hamas attack.

And the locks changed on George Santos' office already, just hours after the historic vote expelling him from Congress. All the day's drama, the fire, the fury, the tears, the cheers, as we say not good- bye to George Santos, but let us say, until we meet again.

(MUSIC)

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we start with two major developments in Donald Trump's legal battles. First off to Fulton County, Georgia, Trump's lawyers arguing before Judge McAfee in the Georgia election case for the very first time, saying Trump's charges should be thrown out on First Amendment free speech grounds. Trump's defense is going after the current timeline for the case, which has the timeline starting next August, just three months before the November presidential election.

Trump is one of 19 people charged in the case regarding efforts to overturn the state's 2020 election results. Of those 19, you might recall, four of them have pleaded guilty. And then more breaking news in D.C. earlier today, a three-judge panel

on a federal appeals court ruling that Trump can, in fact, be sued in civil lawsuits related to the January 6th Capitol attack, with the chief judge stating that not everything a president does is necessarily protected from legal liability.

This ruling will impact several legal cases against Donald Trump, including cases brought by Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell of California, as well as cases brought by Capitol Hill police officers. And beyond Donald Trump, this could have major implications for the presidency in general.

Let's get straight to CNN's Nick Valencia down in Atlanta outside the Fulton County courthouse.

So, Nick, what did Trump's lawyers argue in court today about free speech and what Donald Trump said about the case in Georgia?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, fascinating day in court because this is the first time we're hearing their arguments in court in this case. And what they're saying is that this indictment should have never been leveled in the first place, that it's protected by First Amendment, and that when Donald Trump lost the 2020 election and then began to peddle these conspiracy theories, and make claims of widespread voter fraud, that at the core of those statements were political in nature and therefore protected by the First Amendment.

Steve Sadow argued that the remedy for false speech should not have been a political prosecution by the district attorney's office here in Fulton County. Listen to what he had to argue in court earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN SADOW, TRUMP LAWYER: You take the facts as alleged in the indictment throughout the RICO count, and when you do that, applied with the First Amendment, you find that it violates free speech, freedom of petitioning, all the expressions the First Amendment is designed to protect, and therefore the indictment needs to be dismissed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

VALENCIA: The state said that this is not about political prosecution, but rather that crimes that were committed and laws that were broken. Judge McAfee, the presiding judge in this case, unlikely to issue a ruling from the bench. Instead, he's told defense attorneys they have until December 15th to broaden out their arguments and given the state until January 2nd to do the same.

Meanwhile, we should mention, all of this is happening while four of Trump's former codefendants have pleaded guilty to the crimes alleged and agreed to testify against the former president at any future trials -- Jake.

TAPPER: And, Nick, tell us about what Trump's attorneys were arguing about this line for the trial with the expected start date in August. VALENCIA: So that's another major headline that emerged from court

today. In the recent interview with "The Washington Post," Fani Willis said that she wants the trial to start with Trump and his codefendants in August of 2024 and that scheduling came up in court today.

[16:05:07]

And, Steven Sadow, Trump's attorney said that's just simply unrealistic. He said he expect his client to be the Republican nominee for president and that the trial in August 2024 would be in the heart of the presidential election cycle, in his words, it would be hard to imagine Trump being able to go on trial while simultaneously running for president -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nick Valencia in Fulton County, thanks so much, buddy.

I want to turn now to CNN chief legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid, and Robert James, former DeKalb County district attorney.

So, Paula, Trump's lawyers believe the Georgia charges should be thrown out on these First Amendment rights to free speech, as you just heard Nick explaining. But the judge has already rejected these First Amendment arguments from other defendants, including Kenneth Chesebro.

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPNDENT: That's right, he's rejected this for two other defendants, both of whom were former Trump lawyers, Ken Chesebro and then Sidney Powell. And there the judge said, look, before you can make this argument, there have to be certain record -- a record of certain facts from a trial. But neither one of these defendants went to trial. They both entered plea deals to avoid having to go that far.

Now, today, Trump's lawyers argue that, in fact, you can decide this pretrial. But, Jake, in order for that to actually happen, they would all have to be in agreement, both sides would have to agree on the facts of the case, which means Trump would have to concede that his claims of voter fraud were false.

TAPPER: And, Robert, Trump's attorneys are arguing, as you heard from Nick there, against the timeline of the trial, saying August is just too close to the November election and too soon. What do you think Judge McAfee is going to make of that?

ROBERT JAMES, FORMER DEKALB COUNTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY: Look, I don't think the judge has to consider when the election is. Ultimately, you know, Judge McAfee is a Fulton County judge and his job is to rule on and judge cases that happen in Fulton County without respect to whether or not there's a national election. He also asked a question if President Trump were elected, how would that affect the timeline. I think it would push it out to 2029 because there's serious questions about whether or not you can try a sitting president.

So, ultimately, he's going to do his job, Judge McAfee that is, and he's going to make sure that things are done efficiently. If that means it happens before an election, if it comports with the laws of Georgia and the United States, I think that's going to happen.

TAPPER: And, Robert, lawyers or former Georgia Republican chair David Shafer, who's one of the fake electors who tried to overturn his defeat in Georgia, argued that they weren't fake at all, they were instead contingent electors since Trump was, in fact, contesting the results. We've also heard that argument before when they tried to move the case from Georgia state court to federal court. The judge didn't seem to buy it then.

JAMES: Yeah, I don't think the judge is going to buy it now. I think this is something that's going to go to a jury and 12 people are going to have to decide. That's a great defense when you argue to a jury, right, and it may confuse some people, it may persuade some people.

You're asking the judge to dismiss a case based on that's your opinion, that's your perspective, that it does not violate the law. But I don't think it's clear-cut enough for the judge to dismiss the case.

TAPPER: And, Paula, big news here in D.C, a federal appeals court ruling that Trump can, in fact, be sued in civil lawsuits related to January 6th. The judge writing in the opinion, quote, the president does not spend every minute of every day exercising official responsibility, and when he acts outside the functions of his office, he does not continue to enjoy immunity, when he acts in an unofficial private capacity, he is subject to civil suits like any private citizen, unquote.

And as we know, there are suits being brought against him, by, for instance, some of the police officers affected that day, as well as Democratic Congressman Eric Swalwell, a consequential decision I would think, not only for Donald Trump for potentially for future presidents.

REID: Absolutely, this is massive. We've been waiting for this for a while and it doesn't mean Trump is liable for his actions on January 6, but it means those folks you just mentioned will be able to get their day in court because they have sued Trump for what he did on that day.

But Trump had previously argued, look, I can't be sued for anything that happened on January 6th because I was president, I was acting in my official role. And we know that federal officers from the president on down enjoy civil immunity for things that they do in the course of their official duties.

But here, the court found that his remarks on January 6th were part of a, quote, pro-Trump rally, and more like campaign activity, not his official duties as the leader of the free world.

Now, the Trump campaign has responded once again, insisting that he was acting as president, and it is likely that they'll probably try to appeal this.

TAPPER: So let me ask you, Robert, do you think that this will ultimately be appealed all the way up to the U.S. Supreme Court? [16:10:03]

JAMES: Yes, I do. I think -- Trump's lawyers are going to appeal this as far as the higher courts will accept it. If that's the Supreme Court, that's what it's going to be. But they will tie this up in litigation as long as they can and fight tooth and nail on every single issue, including this one.

TAPPER: Yeah, and Paula, what would that mean theoretically if it were upheld all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court? I mean, that's a tough pill to swallow, that's tough to imagine. But what would that mean for the presidency as a whole?

REID: Look, not only for civil immunity is this significant, but also for the idea of criminal liability, right, because that's the bigger question here for former President Trump. In March of next year, he will go to trial related to alleged elections subversion in January 6th, and he is raising some of the same questions in a criminal context.

And here you have a court of appeals, and in your hypothetical, the Supreme Court saying not everything you do as president is an official act, not everything you do grants you immunity. So this would be, you know, incredibly damaging if it goes to the Supreme Court and is upheld for him in the criminal arena. Right now, just having this appellate decision, the fact that not everything he did is protected from liability, that's not great news for him in terms of how he wanted to try to use similar arguments for his criminal case.

TAPPER: All right. Robert James and Paula Reid, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, the reaction from former Congressman George Santos after the House of Representatives voted to give him the boot.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

FORMER REP. GEORGE SANTOS (R-NY): Why would I want to stay there? To hell with this place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Hear what else he had to say. Plus, I'm going to speak with the Republican candidate who now wants to fill his empty seat.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:41]

TAPPER: In our politics -- in our politics lead, George Santos has left the building. This is actually the moment, we're showing it to you right now, that now former Republican congressman from New York fled, I guess is the right word, fled the United States Capitol building before the gavel even came down, signifying his fate has been sealed. He is now out of a job, again. The House Ethics Committee compiled evidence of serious misconduct and

unanimously recommended that he should be removed, and other members of Congress found it damning and conclusive, so overwhelmingly. More than two-thirds of a bipartisan group of his fellow members of Congress, whose profession is often synonymous with lying, voted to expel him.

CNN's Lauren Fox has more on how Santos became just the sixth lawmaker ever in the history of this wonderful country to be kicked out of that august chamber.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: In light of the expulsion of the gentleman from New York, Mr. Santos, the whole number of the House is now 434.

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In an unprecedented and historic vote, as New York Republican George Santos becomes just the sixth member of the House to be expelled from Congress. Santos leaving the Capitol before the vote was officially announced, saying he has no plans to return.

SANTOS: Why would I want to stay here? The hell with this place.

FOX: A hundred and five of Santos' Republican colleagues joining with all but four Democrats, after a bipartisan ethics committee report concluded Santos sought to fraudulently exploit every aspect of his House candidacy for his own personal financial profit.

REP. DAVID JOYCE (R-OH): Basically he defrauded the voters of his district. His life was made up, it was a lie, and then he used his campaign as though it was a scam the whole time, taking money from donors and turning it into his personal use. It's not that deep, it's theft.

FOX: The ethics panel finding that Santos blatantly stole from his campaign, including for travel, Botox, and even OnlyFans. One Republican congressman alleging Friday he was personally impacted.

REP. MAX MILLER (R-OH): Mr. Santos took not only my credit card personally, he took my mother's credit card. This man has cost my family $30,000.

FOX: The vote comes even after GOP leaders raised concerns about expelling a member before they were convicted of a crime.

Speaker Mike Johnson took the rare step of voting against the resolution.

JOHNSON: I personally have real reservations about doing this. I'm concerned about a precedent that may be set.

FOX: Majority Leader Steve Scalise and Whip Tom Emmer also voting no.

Santos has pleaded not guilty to 23 federal charges. REP. BYRON DONALDS (R-FL): It's wrong what he was accused of doing.

But he was accused. If this institution is going to ignore the rule of law because of political preferences and decisions, it is going to be damning not just for the House, but it's going to be damning for the United States.

FOX: Three members were previously removed from the House for fighting for the Confederacy. Two others expelled after being lawfully convicted of crimes in court.

REP. JIM TRAFICANT (D-OH): I'd go to jail before I resign.

FOX: Most recently, Ohio's Jim Traficant in 2002.

Santos' ouster could have a major impact on the GOP's already narrow majority.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOX (on camera): And over the next three months, we expect that the seat will be filled with a special election. The governor of New York, Kathy Hochul, will set that date of the election within the next three months. But, obviously, it is going to be a tight race, given the fact that this is a district that Biden won in 2020, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Lauren Fox, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

Let's bring in Kellen Curry, a New York Republican already vying for George Santos' old seat.

Kellen, thanks so much for joining us.

So, the Democrats are going to do everything in their power to flip the seat blue. Why jump into this chaos?

KELLEN CURRY (R), NEW YORK CONGRESSIONAL CANDIDATE: Oh, absolutely. Well, Jake, thank you so much for having me. I'm encouraged by all the people that have gone to KellenCurry.com and stand with us in this campaign. We desperately need better leadership in this country. The best leadership we can provide right now, we're not getting that from Mr. Santos.

It's a great day that he's gone and our district can get back to work and I look forward to being a part of that solution.

[16:20:06]

We've been at this for nine months. We've gotten endorsements from sitting members of Congress, and have raised almost half a million dollars. And so, we're fired up and we're ready to go.

TAPPER: Does it concern you that if you get elected, your leadership, the House Speaker Mike Johnson, other House Republican leaders voted to not expel George Santos?

CURRY: No, look, again, I think this is a great day for our country. It's a great day for our district's residents. We can actually get back to serving the people and get back to actually delivering services for NY3 voters, delivering real results for Long Islanders. I think this is a great day.

Santos is in the past. He's become a media narrative. People aren't interested in talking about Mr. Santos. They want to talk about the future. They want real leadership and that's what we're providing in this campaign.

TAPPER: Yeah, but your bosses, your leadership in the House of Representatives, should you win in November, are going to be people who voted to keep Santos in Congress.

CURRY: At the end of the day, the conference will be best served by folks who are going to be constructive members, who are not going to be distractions. And I'm going to be a part of the solution. I'm going to deliver on solving our border crisis, on deliver on reducing inflation in this country, deliver on repealing the cap that was placed on state and local taxes so that we can deliver real results and tax relief for Long Islanders. That's what's important right now and going forward.

TAPPER: You've already gotten some endorsements, some Republican lawmakers, former HHS Secretary Tom Price. Do you have any plans to meet with the House speaker to get Speaker Johnson's endorsement?

CURRY: Well, we're building a big tent. We want every -- every member to support us, it would be great. Obviously, we've gotten some initial support, and we're going to build on that.

We've been building on that from day one. We've gotten a number of former members as well. And so, it's been encouraging to have the support of future colleagues, the most important thing in this campaign is to nominate the right person for this seat.

I believe I'm that person. We've been running a vigorous campaign for quite some time and we're ready to make sure that we can bring this home for Republicans in 2024.

TAPPER: So you wanted George Santos out because obviously he's been accused of crimes, lying and ethics violations. So has the Republican presidential front-runner, former President Donald Trump, frankly accused of much worse and he's been indicted of 91 different charges across multiple cases in multiple jurisdictions.

What do you think about him running for president? Do you think he's fit for office?

CURRY: At the end of the day, the voters are going to decide that. You know, my focus is on this district. For the past 11 months now, we've been out, we've been without the right representation, effective representation. We've had the most ineffective member of Congress.

And so, our attention right now is on this race right now to make sure that we get it right in 2024 and we have the opportunity to do that here in about three months. TAPPER: I get that.

CURRY: The American people are going to take care of the presidential race.

TAPPER: Yeah, but you can't not give me an opinion on the most popular Republican in the Republican Party right now, the leading Republican presidential candidate. If you don't think George Santos is fit to be in Congress, you must have an opinion about whether Donald Trump is fit to be in the White House.

CURRY: At the end of the day, the American people are going to decide that.

TAPPER: I'm asking you what you think.

(CROSSTALK)

CURRY: We are -- Jake, we are in a vigorous debate right now. There's not just Donald Trump, there's Nikki Haley, there's Ron DeSantis.

TAPPER: Who do you like?

CURRY: They're duking it out for who's going to be the standard bearer for the party. And so, we'll see how it shakes out.

TAPPER: Yeah, but who do you like? You must have a preference. You've got a lot of good candidates in the race. Who do you like?

CURRY: Absolutely. I'm going to support the Republican nominee at the end of the day.

TAPPER: It's not the end of the day. It's only 4:23. Who do you like?

CURRY: At the end of the day, Jake, I'm going with the Republican nominee.

TAPPER: It's not the end of the day. It's 4:23. Who do you like right now? Nikki Haley, Ron DeSantis, Vivek Ramaswamy, Donald Trump, Chris Christie, who is just from across the river? I mean, you must like one of these guys.

CURRY: Here is what I like, Jake. I like the process. I like the fact that we're having a vigorous debate right now about who is going to be the standard bearer. And I look forward to seeing that debate play itself out. We're going to have debates, Iowa is coming up, New Hampshire is coming up. And so, we'll see.

I don't think we should get ahead of the process. I think we should allow it to play out. I think we should allow voters to weigh in. Folks don't like to be told what to do or what to think. And we'll see where it goes from here.

TAPPER: Well, Kellen, with all due respect, you had a lot to say about George Santos, he's now gone, and George Santos, who had certainly a lot of embarrassing things that he did, said and has been accused of and is charged with, is a piker compared to Donald Trump. And yet you don't have anything to say about him.

[16:25:02]

CURRY: Well, Jake, I know what you're trying to do.

TAPPER: I'm not trying to do anything.

CURRY: The fact is Donald Trump -- the fact is, Donald Trump deserves his day in court, he deserves due process, he deserves everything that's afforded to every single American.

I don't think we should get ahead of that process, either. So, we'll see where it goes. There's no need to rush to a judgment right now about Donald Trump. The fact is, he's going through court proceedings, he's going through a campaign and we'll see what the American people decide.

TAPPER: OK. Well, what about the civil court that already found him guilty and awarded a woman $3 million for a sexual assault? That day in court already happened. Do you have an opinion about that?

CURRY: Yeah. Well, Jake, here is what I do have an opinion about. When I get on doorsteps, people aren't asking me about Donald Trump. People aren't asking me about some civil case. They're asking me, how are we going to fix the migrant crisis that's impacting New York City? How are we going to fix the inflation that's impact American families? How are we going to bring down the cost of living here in Long Island?

Those are the issues that I'm focused on. There's nothing I can do about what's going on with Donald Trump. The only thing I can do is deliver real leadership to this district and that's what we've been talking about for the past nine months and that's what I'm going to be focused on.

TAPPER: Kellen Curry, thanks so much. Appreciate your time, sir.

CURRY: Thank you for having me, Jake.

TAPPER: We're going to go live to Israel next where renewed fighting in the region includes strikes in southern Gaza.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:50]

TAPPER: In our world lead, the pause in the Israel/Hamas war is over. Today, Israel resumed artillery and air strikes on targets inside Gaza. They say Hamas violated the terms of the week-long pause in fighting. Secretary of State Antony Blinken says that Hamas began firing rockets before the pause was set to end and reneged on commitments Hamas made in terms of releasing certain hostages.

This comes against the backdrop of damning "New York Times" revelations that the leaders of the Netanyahu government dismissed detailed warnings about Hamas' attack plans for more than a year. And yet, nonetheless, were caught quite off guard on October 7th.

Let's go to CNN's Matthew Chance in Tel Aviv.

Matthew, in the past few hours, we've seen flares and heard explosions over Gaza. How intense have today's attacks been?

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: I think they've been very intense. We've returned to the level of intensity that we saw in the Gaza Strip before the truce, the temporary truce was put in place more than a week ago. And we've seen whole blocks being targeted by Israeli forces, air strikes, artillery strikes, tank rounds as well.

So, some very dramatic scenes and tragic scenes being played out in Gaza. Inevitably, the human consequences have been great. According to the Palestinian health ministry, controlled by Hamas, so far there have been 178 Palestinians killed in just this day of Israel's renewal of its military operations, so obviously that's of massive concern, both in Gaza here and in the United States.

TAPPER: Hamas is attacking as well, of course. We've seen Israel's Iron Dome defense system intercept incoming rockets fired, at least seemingly toward the population center of Tel Aviv.

CHANCE: Yeah, of course. In fact, the Israelis, as well as the United States, have made a point of saying that it was Hamas that fired the first shots in this latest rounds of fighting. Certainly, there's compelling video images, as you can see, of Iron Dome interceptors of Israel, intercepting Palestinian rockets as they're fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel. Just behind me in Tel Aviv as well.

And they're seeing from the south of Israel as well, where Palestinian rocket attacks have struck various locations in the south of Israel, hitting cars. Fortunately on this occasion, no Israelis injured. But, obviously, it just underlines that despite the ongoing military operation in Gaza, Hamas, other Palestinian militant groups are able to continue their strikes on Israel.

TAPPER: Israelis also dropped leaflets on the southern Gaza City of Khan Younis, calling it a fighting zone urging residents to evacuate immediately. Is that practical? Can they evacuate?

CHANCE: Well, it's difficult. Khan Younis is a city in the south of Gaza. If you recall, the vast majority of the population of Gaza City and the strip has moved to the south of the area, and that's created a massive overcrowding issue, 80 percent of the population now is estimated are living in that southern part of the Gaza Strip, many in temporary accommodations and in camps.

So, any effort to move them somewhere else is obviously going to be a humanitarian problem, cause humanitarian problems, to say the least. And that's something the U.N. and others are acutely aware of.

TAPPER: All right. Matthew Chance in Tel Aviv, thank you so much. The resumption of fighting means more misery for the millions of innocent Palestinian civilians hemmed in across southern Gaza. And CNN's Ben Wedeman reports the death toll is already climbing. Of

course, we do not know how many are Hamas and how many are innocents.

We warn you, some of the images in Ben's report are quite disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The pause is over. Now, let's slip again the dogs of war.

Still alive, someone shouts, as a baby is carried away from a house hit in Rafah.

In Khan Younis, children are rushed into the emergency ward, the United Nations estimates almost 40 percent of Gaza's population is under the age of 15. Thousands of children have already been killed. And that must stop, pleads UNICEF spokesman James Elder from a Rafah hospital.

JAMES ELDER, UNICEF SPOKESMAN: We cannot see more children with the wounds of war, with the burns, with the shrapnel littering their body, with broken bones. Inaction by those with influence is allowing the killing of children. This is a war on children.

WEDEMAN: Mediation efforts to extend the truce came to naught. Israel continues to pursue its goal of destroying Hamas. Just be more careful while doing it, U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken urged the Israelis.

ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: And I underscore the imperative of the United States, that the massive loss of civilian life and displacement of the scale we saw in northern Gaza not be repeated in the south.

WEDEMAN: By Friday evening, the death toll since the morning shot past 170, according to Gaza's Hamas-run health ministry, adding to the nearly 15,000 killed before the truce. This man came to the Ahli Baptist Hospital in Gaza City in search of his little brother Ziad (ph), only to find him in a body bag.

Ziad is dead, he cries into the phone.

Inside, medics struggled to save the life of a 2-year-old girl, gravely wounded in an Israeli strike.

Since Friday morning, says hospital volunteer, Rafi Ayed (ph), we've wrapped more than 40 martyrs from various areas who were bombed in their homes.

There's still a chance the truce could be renewed if Hamas and Israel can come to a new agreement. The people of Gaza cannot afford to wait.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WEDEMAN (on camera): And this evening, the bombardment of Gaza goes on. What we've seen is there's been an intense bombing, bombardment outside to the east of the city of Khan Younis. That is where earlier, the Israelis had dropped leaflets warning people to leave the area because it would soon become an active military zone -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Ben Wedeman in Jerusalem, thank you so much.

This just in to CNN, a woman tried to set herself on fire outside the Israeli consulate in Atlanta. Police are calling it, quote, an extreme act of political protest, unquote.

Let's get straight to CNN's Rafael Romo in Atlanta.

Rafael, tell us what happened.

RAFAEL ROMO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, the incident happened at 12:17 p.m. that's when a security guard at this building behind me noticed there was a woman outside trying to set herself on fire, using gasoline as an accelerant. The security guard tried to stop her from doing so, but in the process, he suffered burns to his wrist and leg.

The woman is now in critical condition. She suffered third-degree burns to 100 percent of her body, according to police here. And as you can imagine, Jake, this was cause for concern here because this building behind me houses the Israeli consulate, but police are telling us that there was no one in the consular offices that was ever in any danger, in any harm.

The staff is doing fine, and there was no other problems. The area was cordoned off for several hours, just a few moments ago, we saw police leaving the building. As far as we know, she's only going to be charged with arson. Again, police say that this was not at all an act of terrorism.

Jake, back to you.

TAPPER: Rafael Romo, thank you so much.

Coming up next, law and legacy. Remembering Sandra Day O'Connor, once called the most powerful woman in America.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:43:23]

TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, the daughter of a rancher, growing up miles from a paved road in Arizona, Sandra Day O'Connor rose to be called the most powerful woman in America. Justice O'Connor became the first ever woman to serve on the U.S. Supreme Court.

Her influence was unmatched. She found middle ground and shaped the law for many of the nation's most controversial issues, affirmative action, abortion rights, voting rights, religious issues. She wrote a public letter to the country in 2018 stating that she had been diagnosed with dementia and she died today, at the age of 93.

Here to reflect on her life and legal legacy, Judge Margaret McKeown, the senior circuit judge on the U.S. Court of Appeals on the 9th Circuit, who knew her personally.

Firstly, Judge McKeown, first of all, my condolences on the loss of your friend.

Let's start with her legacy, her legal legacy. She never served as chief justice technically, but it was often referred as though O'Connor's court because her opinions had a major influence on the other justices.

JUDGE MARGARET MCKEOWN, NINTH CIRCUIT COURT OF APPEALS: Well, that's right. Thank you, Jake, for having me.

It's a sad day for everybody, the passing of Justice O'Connor. You know, she left what I think is a really remarkable legacy. You mentioned that she was like chief justice because she had such an impact on the court, and she did. I think part of that was her personality, she was also extremely pragmatic.

[16:45:00]

And she also understood the importance to the American public of understanding the court and giving the court legitimacy. Sometimes people said, well, she went to the middle, she was moderate. She never wanted to be viewed as wishy-washy, because she knew exactly where she stood and why.

But I think she had a remarkable influence to be able to persuade the other justices of her position, both in terms of the legal foundation, but also the pragmatic foundation, and that's why she left the legacy that you mentioned in so many of these areas, whether it's women's rights, abortion, voting rights, affirmative action.

TAPPER: There are probably too many to list, but when you think about the opinions that stand out to you and their impact, and thinking that she was a conservative, but not necessarily like the conservatives we see on the court today, give me one. It doesn't have to be number one, but just give me one of the decisions that you think had an impact. It doesn't mean it's the number one one, but just give me one.

MCKEOWN: Right. It's hard to see the number one one, but I think she is very well remembered for her decision in Planned Parenthood versus Casey which reaffirmed the right to abortion in Roe v. Wade. And she went on the record publicly to say that didn't mean she necessarily agreed with abortion, but she understood the right to abortion and the right of American women to choose. So, that certainly stands out as her legacy. One of many.

TAPPER: She's also clearly the definition of a trailblazer, as a judge, how did she inspire and pave the way for generations of women serving on the bench?

MCKEOWN: Well, first of all, being the first female on the U.S. Supreme Court was really a remarkable achievement. It had happened in other countries, but not the United States. So, all of a sudden, legions of women, not just judges and lawyers, but really women across America saw her as an icon for what women could be. And also, to use the word trailblazer is also -- is almost dismissive

because she was more than a trailblazer. She really embodied someone who understood what justice meant, someone who understand what it was like to be discriminated against as a woman. Of course, getting out of law school, top of her class, Stanford law school, she couldn't get a job.

And she related that story many times over the years, not to denigrate what happened to her, but to celebrate what had happened to women afterwards. And much of that wouldn't have happened were it not for someone like Sandra Day O'Connor.

TAPPER: Yeah, a brilliant, brilliant woman, nominated to the bench in 1981 by President Ronald Reagan.

Judge Margaret McKeown, thank you so much for talking with us today. Really, really appreciate it.

MCKEOWN: Thank you. It's an honor to be here. Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Coming up, what to make of all the recent talk about respiratory illness going around. Is there cause for alarm? We're going to bring in CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:52:56]

TAPPER: In our health lead, you might see at the office or your kid's school, lots of people are very sick right now, respiratory illnesses on the rise and all because of three different viruses.

CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here to break it down for us.

Sanjay, what exactly is causing this uptick?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, there are these three virus, Jake. And it's important to point out we know what these viruses are. They they're not necessarily novel or mysterious viruses because you've seen in the headlines as well.

We -- it's flu. It's RSV, and it's COVID. It's this triple threat.

But I do want to show you, just to give you some context if you look at respiratory pediatric hospitalizations and just sort of go back over the last few years. You can see as far as where we are now, in the 2022 winter, there was a significant spike. When you can see where we are now, and that number is likely to continue to go up.

But so far it's not out of whack compared to what we've seen in the last couple of years. In fact, let me show you what things have looked like the last couple of years and compare that to pre-COVID as well. So the green line in the middle that's sort of 2022, 2023.

The two previous years actually had higher hospitalizations for respiratory virus. These are all higher post-pandemic. So gives you some sort of context of what's going on here.

But I think the really critical point is, you know, having covered these types of stories for a long time you look to see is the virus spreading human to human? Is it spreading within a community? The answer is yes, and we're seeing that in places around the country. And then trying to figure out what exactly is causing this.

And again, it is viruses. We know there's concern about that but not as much concern as if it were novel, Jake.

TAPPER: There's this county in Ohio experiencing a, quote, outbreak of pneumonia cases in children. How similar are these cases to those we're seeing in China and Europe?

GUPTA: Pretty similar, in fact. You know, again those three respiratory viruses, flu, COVID, and RSV, but oftentimes or at least many times, people may also develop a bacterial infection.

[16:55:03]

So you have viruses and you have bacteria. Bacteria are treated by antibiotics but some of these bacteria, Jake, are also resistant to the existing antibiotics. So, you have all these different -- the swarm of viruses causing these bacterial infections, tough to treat these bacterial infections, and that's causing part of this problem as well.

So, as much as we talk about the pandemic big problem, anti-microbial resistance, that's going to be a bigger problem going forward in the years to come, something we've got to keep an eye on.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Coming up next, what this new phase of the Israel-Hamas war looks tonight. We're going to go live to the CNN reporter closest to the Israeli-Gaza border.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)