Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Two Days Ago Trump Said Abortion Laws Should Be Left To States, Today Trump Says Arizona Abortion Ruling Went Too Far; Right Now: Hearing On Trump's Request To Delay Hush Money Trial; More Than 30M Across Southeast Under Storm Threat; Examining Biden And Trump's Presidential Accomplishments; Police: 5 People Arrested After Shooting In Philadelphia; Sources: Hamas Tells Negotiators It Does Not Have 40 Israeli Hostages To Turn Over For New Ceasefire Deal. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired April 10, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:13]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And according to the hospital, three more people showed up with gunshot wounds after they transported themselves to the hospital. Obviously, a lot of police response that we saw in that area and a very serious situation.

THELEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

(MUSIC)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: So, does Mr. Trump want to leave abortion up to the states or not?

THE LEAD starts right now.

In classic Donald Trump passion, the former president giving his supporters whiplash, blasting both Arizona and Florida for their abortion bans just two days after saying abortion should be left up to the states.

And he's not the only Republican trying to run away from past comments on abortion.

Breaking news, another appeal hearing involving Donald Trump getting underway right now. This latest Hail Mary from the former president as his legal team tries anything they can think of the stop the Stormy Daniels case from beginning. First criminal trial, just five days away.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big tornado, big, big tornado.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: From tornado warnings to flash flood emergencies, we are on severe weather alert in the United States as dangerous storms move in. (MUSIC)

TAPPER: Welcome for THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And were going to start with our politics lead, days away from the first-ever criminal trial of a former president of the United States of America, Donald Trump landed in Atlanta, Georgia today for a major fundraiser. He seemed to have a lot in his mind including the subject of abortion. You'll remember just two days ago, Mr. Trump shared his views on abortion in a video that his campaign released.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My view is now that we have abortion where everybody wanted it from a legal standpoint, the states will determine by vote or legislation, or perhaps both and whatever they decide must be the law of the land in this case the law of the state.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And yet today, a reporter asked Mr. Trump if he thought that Arizona's Supreme Court decision to reinstate a near abortion ban, a law from 1864, whether that went too far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Yeah, they did, and that'll be straightened out. And, as you know, it's all about states' rights and that'll be straightened out. And I'm sure that the governor and everybody else are going to bring it back into reason and that will be taken care off think very quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So just to translate that because it was kind of noisy. Yeah, they did, and that'll be straightened out. And as you know, it's all about states' rights. That'll be straightened out and I'm sure the governor and everyone else are going to bring it back into reason. And that will be taken care of I think very quickly.

So it does seem it is up to the states unless Donald Trump disagrees with the decision of that state and maybe also if he needs to win that state in November. Mr. Trump did finally offer his firmest response to date on the national abortion ban that many in the anti-abortion community want him to sign into law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Would you sign a national abortion ban if Congress sent it to your desk?

TRUMP: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: Again, not a big fan of these tarmac pressers. The question, would you sign a national abortion ban if Congress sent it to your desk? Trump's response, no.

Now, the Biden campaign was quick to respond, saying in a statement, quote, Trump lies constantly about everything but has one track record banning abortion every chance he gets. That's not completely accurate if memory serves. I remember Mr. Trump being asked by "The New York Times'" Maureen Dowd, I think back in 2016 or so, whether he had ever paid for in an abortion and response was: Such an interesting question. So what's your next question?

Trump also attacked Biden on Biden's response to Israel's war with Hamas in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Biden has totally lost control of the Israel situation. He has abandoned Israel, he's totally abandoned Israel. And any Jewish person that votes for a Democrat or votes for Biden should have their head examine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Quote, what you just heard. Any Jewish person that votes for Democrat or votes for Biden should have their head examined.

Poll suggests that Jewish voters in the United States opt for Democrats roughly 70 percent of the time so that is a vast majority of the American Jewish voting population that Mr. Trump apparently believes need to have their heads examined.

Let's bring in our political panel and we should note, Maria, that Kari Lake is also running away from her previous comments on abortion, although much more starkly than Donald Trump. Now, she said that the Arizona abortion ruling went too far. She said it was, quote, out of step with Arizonans, this law from 1844 --1864, Sorry, before women had the right to vote. It's the important -- it's important in part 1864. So that's what you said.

But in 2022, she said this:

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KARI LAKE (R), ARIZONA U.S. SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: I'm incredibly thrilled that we are going to have a great law that's already on the books. I believe it's ARS 13-3603.

[16:05:03]

So it will prohibit abortion in Arizona, except to save the life of a mother.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, Maria, what changed? MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the electoral

challenge that Republicans have, but look, Donald Trump as well as Kari Lake, they are fully primed it on this. I'm not going to continue with that analogy, but it does --

TAPPER: That's not heading in a good place.

CARDONA: Exactly. What it does do for Democrats is that it lets us underscore number one the lack of credibility for Republicans on this issue writ large, and Donald Trump knows very well. He has said this in private, I think in public as well, just how much of a loser this abortion issue has been. And so that's why he's trying to have it both ways.

I think Kari Lake is looking at that and taking his lead, also trying to have it both ways. But there's so much audio, there's so much written. The ads are already being written from the Biden campaign about what Donald Trump has said and the fact that he has said very recently that he is so proud to have been the one to appoint the judges that overturned Roe v. Wade, I think it's going to give Democrats all of the ammunition that we need in order to underscore that this person, no matter what he says, will continue to be a danger to the rights and liberties of women.

TAPPER: So somewhere that chief justice of the United States, John Roberts is pulling his hair because he tried hi to point the court in a direction of a 15 week ban that I believe he thought was going to be some sort of like middle-ground of sorts. I know that people on both sides of the issue would take issue with that, but he tried to point the court in that direction. They did not follow that direction.

And now, Republicans are having to defend outright bans.

DAVID POLYANSKY, FORMER DESANTIS DEPUTY CAMPAIGN MANAGER: That's right. And look, on a day where the morning started off with 3.5 percent inflation hikes, record inflation, disappointment among Republicans and Democrats, frankly as people are hurting in the country, this afternoon, we're talking about abortion again. And that's not where Republicans politically want to be frankly, that's not where the country should be.

And so when we look at a move back to the states, I think -- I think what the former president's probably trying to say or what he should be saying is it should go back to the state. But when it goes back to the states, it should be legislatures and it should be by referendum, the people in those states should have a voice and us -- a court in Arizona doing something as egregious as this is not the way to go about this debate, especially something as extreme as they've done in Arizona.

TAPPER: And as you know, not only did Trump fuel this by his original actions with Roe v. Wade and the court and all that. He was talking about it. He's criticizing the Arizona Supreme Court.

Former Vice President Pence said that Trumps stance two days ago on abortion was a slap in the face. And now, Trump is attacking his former vice president, saying Mike Pence has been doing a lot of talking about an abortion lately. He never felt I would be able to kill Roe v. Wade.

So I mean --

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah, you know --

TAPPER: What's the -- what's the position here?

HENDERSON: Trump is in some ways a master at doing this, taking many often contradictory positions on any number of issues. And so if you're a voter, you can choose your own adventure in terms of what his policy would actually be. This is obviously a bombshell in the middle of visit Arizona race, a state that Biden won by about 10,000 votes.

And now, they're going to have this referendum in November. Its going to drive Democratic turnip a turn out in November and I think we're obviously going to hear from Trump over for an over again on this.

CARDONA: I hope so.

HENDERSON: Yeah, I think he bargained that the swing states would have abortion rights. He doesn't care that women in Mississippi, in Texas don't have any rights. So he thought on Monday, he had reached a position that was going to be adequate for him to talk about.

And so, he didn't bargain on Arizona. He didn't bargain on 1864. You know, this is a court that had a choice between 1864 law and 2022 law, and they chose 1864. It makes it really easy for Democrats to paint Republicans as radical and people who are interested perhaps in taking away other rights.

TAPPER: So here's another thing that Donald Trump's going to be talking about. CNN reporting that House Speaker Mike Johnson is going to set a time to go to Mar-a-Lago on Friday to deliver remarks along with Donald Trump about what they're calling election integrity.

First of all, is that what you as a Republican who wants to recapture the White House in November, want him to be talking about?

POLYANSKY: Republicans today should be talking about the economy. Look, families that earn under $100,000 a year right now are hurting in the inflation numbers that we saw this morning are especially hurting them.

Voters across the country, both Republicans, but independents, and some even moderate Democrats are worried about the border and immigration. They want a solution. They want a secure border.

They're worried about crime. They're worried about a whole host of issues. They are not worried about election integrity, especially of the past.

And the longer we talk about that with the rearview mirror, the longer we are pointing the window of opportunity to the Biden camp, and frankly, Democrats in key Senate states and House districts across the country.

[16:10:07]

Stop it.

TAPPER: So, Nia-Malika, I've heard people hypothesize one of the reasons that Speaker Johnson is doing this is because he's under fire from the MAGA caucus, Marjorie Taylor Greene and Matt Gaetz and the like for any number of reasons. And he's trying to shore up support from Donald Trump.

HENDERSON: Yeah, absolutely. And this is the way to do it. Go there. So get his blessing. Kiss the ring.

I think the best thing that Mike Johnson has going for him at this point is it's hard to imagine, A, who could get that job as speaker of the House and, B, who would actually want it at this point, but he will go down as Kevin McCarthy went before him, and get the blessing of Donald Trump and, you know, hopefully in his mind, that shores up his, his base of support there and kind of cools off the dogs in the form of Marjorie Taylor Greene.

TAPPER: I guess possibly, Donald Trump showed himself and we'll talk about this in the next hour, Donald Trump showed himself to be very powerful when it came to killing this FISA bill, having to do with spying on foreign adversaries. And he posted something and the Republican bill died because of Republican on Republican violence.

CARDONA: I think that that is something that Democrats are also going to underscore in this election, that Speaker Johnson really is shadow speaker Trump. And that the chaos and the confusion that Republicans have brought to the House of Representatives, especially to the Congress, is not something that Americans either voted for or deserve and it really gives Democrats the ability to say, look, not only should Joe Biden be reelected because of the future of democracy, the future of rights and freedoms the future of the republic, but also because Americans want and deserve a Congress that is focused on solving the nation's problems.

Everything you said is absolutely right. But when you have the speaker and the candidate for president for the GOP talking about abortion for the -- for the latter one, and then for election integrity on the other one, it allows Democrats to focus on this message of chaos.

TAPPER: You know who else agrees with you that people should be more focused, politicians should be focused -- more focused on the economy. We don't have time to discuss this, but I do want to get political credit for their reporting. They got a recording of former White House chief of staff for Biden, Ron Klain, saying, I quote, I think the president is out there too much talking about bridges. Look, it's an effing bridge. He didn't say effing. I tell you, if you go into the grocery store, you go to the grocery store and you know, eggs and milk are expensive.

I mean, this is a very, very important issue.

Thanks one and all for being here.

We are following breaking news in the hush money case against Donald Trump, arguments in his latest attempt to stop the case are underway right now. Why this time is so different than his prior attempts?

Plus, we're staying on top of that shooting in West Philadelphia, six people reported injured. A CNN team is on-scene digging into exactly what happened.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:16:56]

TAPPER: And breaking news in our law and justice lead. Right now, prosecutors and Donald Trump's attorneys are inside a New York courtroom as the former president tries once again to get his hush money trial delayed.

Jury selection is scheduled to start Monday in watch -- in what will be Trump's first criminal trial, if that happens.

Let's bring in CNN's Paula Reid.

Paula, this is the third hearing just this week so far. Trump is 0-2. What do we know about what's happening right now?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Right now, Trump's lawyers are trying to argue and convince the court of appeals to pause the hush money case while they litigate this issue of presidential immunity and try to get the judge in the case, Judge Juan Marshawn, removed from the case.

Now, just last week, Marshawn batted away this issue. He said, look, you're bringing up this question of presidential immunity too late, and that raises some questions about the sincerity of this appeal, right? Is this really a valid constitutional rights that you have, or is this about trying to delay the case?

Now, as you know, he's litigating presidential immunity and other cases, and the Supreme Court will hear arguments in about two weeks about presidential immunity related to the federal January 6 case.

Now if he loses here, this is an intermediary appellate court. There's one more stop in New York, so called the court of appeals is the highest court. If he loses there, he could go to the Supreme Court and ask it to stay the hush money case while they resolve these larger questions of presidential immunity.

I've talked to a lot of Trump aligned lawyers today. And they're like, look, it may not be successful, but there's no harm in trying.

TAPPER: Well, I mean, not if you by the hour.

Donald Trump has been very vocal about this case today on his Truth Social page, what is he saying? REID: So a slew of false allegations. He says, all legal scholars say

it is a sham. That's just not true. If people have argued that this isn't the most consequential or the most significant case, but its not true to say all scholars say it's a sham. Biden's DOJ is running the case, also not true.

TAPPER: No evidence of that, zero.

REID: This is the Manhattan district attorney, a state level case. I'm sure if you talk to Jack Smith, he would prefer they're not other criminal cases.

Now he says just think of it, these animals want to put the former president of the United States who got more votes than any other sitting president, and the party's Republican candidate in jail for doing absolutely nothing wrong.

I'll also note it's not expected even if he is convicted here, that he would go to jail.

TAPPER: Is this more of a financial penalty kind of case?

REID: Given all of the circumstances, what is charged, his prior -- his lack of a prior record, if he was convicted here, it's not expected that he would go to jail.

But this is what we can expect. Look, the judge overseeing the case, he has expanded a gag orders, so Trump is barred from attacking family members of the judge who's been going after the judges daughter. But I think that we can expect this to be really something we see almost every day for the next six weeks, assuming they cant pause that trial.

TAPPER: Assuming they can't pause it, they're still trying. I imagined that every day until jury selection begins on Monday, we will be covering his latest attempt to delay it.

Paula Reid, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss, former federal prosecutor Elie Honig.

Elie, there are expected to be some very familiar names taking the stand in this trial. So as to provide a preview for the good folks who watch our show, let's start with Michael Cohen.

[16:20:01]

He's likely the star witness of the trial. Cohen literally went to prison for perjury.

So how will the prosecution that is relying on his testimony, how will they get past that?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jake, they have to take it straight on. They can't try to soften up who Michael Cohen is or what he's done. It is very common for federal prosecutors to build cases on testimony from people who've been convicted of crimes. I certainly did it plenty of times.

And what you have to do is present that person to the jury as a flawed person, but an open book and I think what we'll hear from prosecutors here is yes, Michael Cohen committed these various crimes, but he did them with and for Donald Trump. And since he turned on Donald Trump, they will argue he has been reliable. He has been trustworthy.

Now, Trump's team is going to have no shortage of material to work with on cross-examination. They're going to say to the jury, how can you convict a person of a crime based on the word of a convicted perjurer and a person who committed tax fraud and bank fraud and lied to congress.

They're also going to say Michael Cohen is wildly biased. I mean, this is a man who spends all day berating Trump publicly. And so ultimately, Jake, these will be tricky issues, but there will be up for the jury to resolve.

TAPPER: Stormy Daniels, the adult film star and director. She's also expected to testify. She's the woman whom Cohen allegedly paid off to keep her mouth shut about the alleged interlude she had with Mr. Trump.

What kinds of questions might she be asked?

HONIG: So she's a big name, Jake, but I think her direct relevance to the actual criminal charges here is pretty limited. I think she will testify. First of all, that she did, in fact have this sexual dalliance with Donald Trump. That's relevant in some respect to the why the hush money was paid and really, her -- her testimony is limited.

She'll be able to say, yes, I received $130,000. That was part of an agreement for me not to go public, but what she will not be able to testify to is the actual crime, which remember, the crime is not the payment or receipt of hush money. The crime is that Donald Trump allegedly falsified his internal bookkeeping by labeling those payments as legal fees.

Stormy Daniels is not going to have presumably any information about that. And I think Trump's team is going to point out that she's perhaps relevant, but very limited in respect to the criminal charges here.

TAPPER: And then there is the least known, but perhaps most powerful of the three, David Pecker, who used to run "The National Enquirer" and other esteemed publications, Mr. Pecker may be less familiar to viewers than Cohen and Stormy, but who you think -- who do you think would be a better witness for prosecutors than Michael Cohen, right?

HONIG: Yeah, I do. David Pecker is a lesser known name than Michael Cohen. But as you say, he was right in along with this with Michael Cohen and Donald Trump from the start. He, David Pecker is no saint. He's sort of -- was one of the inventors of this whole catch and kill idea, which is unseemly, but also not illegal. And he was there for the key conversations around whether and how to

pay Stormy Daniels with Donald Trump and with Michael Cohen. And when you compare it to Michael Cohen, he has way less baggage. He's not been convicted of perjury for one thing, and the southern district of New York actually gave Mr. Pecker a non-prosecution agreement which tells me, A, they believe he had relevant information and B, they found him trustworthy in contrast to Michael Cohen, who the southern district of New York rejected.

So, smaller name there, but I think he could be a more important witness.

TAPPER: Elie, do you think Donald Trump is going to testify in this case. And if you were his attorney, would you advise him to take the stand?

HONIG: So on the second point, first, I would beg him not to take the stand. You never quite know what Donald Trump will do. I think it's unlikely he takes the stand, Jake.

Even though in movies and TV, the defendant seems to always take the stand, it's quite rare in a criminal case. Now, we did get a bit of a preview of how this might go. He took the stand in the civil case in New York and that went dreadfully for Donald Trump. If I was his lawyer, I might try to remind him of that.

So it's always the defendant's prerogative. He always has the right to testify. He has the right not to testify. I do expect him, if any sort of reason and sanity prevails here, not to take the stand.

TAPPER: Trump has had some difficulties with his courtroom behavior or even not on the stand. He stormed out. He's been reprimanded by judges. If you were his attorney, how would you be preparing him to sit through this trial?

HONIG: I would implore him to behave himself because here's the thing -- the jury is sitting just a couple of feet away from you. They are watching and evaluating everything you do in here, hanging your head and grumbling and having a temper tantrum, they will see that. They will hold that against you and I think the way id frame it to Donald Trump, Jake is not as a matter of decorum, you're not going to appeal to his greater sense of politeness. I would just phrase it as a matter of self-preservation.

I would tell him, look, they're the ones who are going to come back and find you guilty or not guilty. And if you act up, they're going to hold it against you. I've been in enough courtrooms to know that jurors are always watching. You always have to keep a poker face.

TAPPER: His supporters will tell you that in person he's quite charming.

Elie Honig, thanks so much.

HONIG: Perhaps. TAPPER: Another member of Trump's orbit, who you might have heard in connection to that trial is facing his own legal consequences today, former Trump organization CFO Allen Weisselberg was sentenced to five months in jail on perjury charges this morning as part of a plea deal, Weisselberg admitted to falsely testifying about his knowledge of the size of Trumps apartment, and that the value of that apartment was inflated on Trump's financial statements.

[16:25:08]

You might remember Weisselberg's name being repeatedly invoked by Michael Cohen when he testified on Capitol Hill about the hush money payments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RO KHANNA (R-CA): Weisselberg is executive one, correct?

MICHAEL COHEN, FORMER TURMP ATTORNEY: Yes. The bottom signature I believe is Allen Weisselberg. I was asked again with Allen Weisselberg. I was instructed by Allen. In the office with me was Allen Weisselberg.

Mr. Weisselberg, for sure. Allen Weisselberg. Allen Weisselberg. Allen Weisselberg. Allen Weisselberg.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Who would know the answer to those questions?

COHEN: Allen Weisselberg.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Weisselberg is 76 years old. He is now expected to head back to Rikers Island, the notorious New York City jail, where he served time last year on tax charges.

The dangerous storms are slamming of the southeastern United States right now from tornadoes to torrential rain. CNN is just arriving in one spot where reports say a tornado just hit. We're going to go there next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:29]

TAPPER: Breaking news in our national lead, a severe weather situation involving tornados and flash floods is unfolding across parts of the southern United States. Right now, thousands are without power from Texas to Alabama.

Water rescues are underway. Floodwaters are submerging homes and cars, at least one person in Mississippi has been killed. Officials in Slidell, Louisiana, say damaged caused by a possible tornado is the worst they've ever seen and they warn the worst is yet to come.

Meteorologist Derek Van Dam is in Slidell.

And, Derek, you've been traveling all over the south today. What are you saying?

DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes. Slidell was hit particularly hard with what was an apparent tornado. But (AUDIO GAP) wind event, and I'll explain the difference in a minute. But it only took a matter of seconds to change the lives of several dozens of people in the apartment complex that you see directly behind me.

It only took about 30 seconds for this incredible amount of wind, which was stronger than a category one Atlantic hurricane equivalent to topple trees. And also take off the roof of this apartment complex. You see behind me there were actually rescues that were ongoing. Remember, this wind came through about 10:00 a.m. this morning. So several hours have elapsed, but as we were driving into this area, we saw trees toppled like twigs, power lines completely snapped off.

In fact, there is one power line here. The power is completely out obviously because of this. And in a moment, you're more than likely about to hear the crackle of thunder because we have more whether that is continuing to move in, that's just kind of adding more misery to the pain because I talked to some of the residents of this apartment complex saying that what is starting to infiltrate into the ceilings of the first floor of this apartment complex --

TAPPER: All right. Well, we got it. We got it as long as we could. It was always going to be hairy.

Derek Van Dam in Slidell, Louisiana, where bad weather is affecting the satellite feed. It happens. Thanks so much.

There's the old saying there's a difference between campaigning and governing. You campaign in poetry and you govern in prose. We're going to break down what President Biden and Donald Trump have actually accomplished while serving in the Oval Office. You'll want to see these report cards.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:09]

TAPPER: Time for our 2024 lead, please. Maestro, cue the music.

(MUSIC)

TAPPER: Yes. Thank you. Nice. The election music.

A deep dive into former President Trump and President Biden's accomplishment record. So who got more done? "The Washington Monthly" just put out a scorecard examining exactly their track records, which could, of course, become a key issue for some voters in November.

Joining us now is the Washington month's editor in chief, Paul Glastris.

Paul, thanks so much for being here.

So this is very interesting how you did this. You came up with a definitive list between Trump and Biden just in terms of what they accomplished.

Who advance their agenda more based on certain issues. You have Trump with the most ground when it came to taxes and courts and social issues. You say they tied when it comes to achievement on immigration, veterans, work and family, crime and cannabis. And then the Biden's success list is legislating, trade and guns, just a name a few. That's a long list over there.

And what's really interesting about this piece is just it's not necessarily judging the merits of what they did on taxes, but just looking at what did -- how successful were they able to be? What's the biggest takeaway you want to share with readers and viewers and voters?

PAUL GLASTRIS, EDITOR IN CHIEF, WASHINGTON MONTHLY: Well, I think people should read the list for themselves. We have 146 specific accomplishments that the two presidents achieved over 21 policy areas. You gave some of the highlights and they should read it and decide for themselves.

But the main takeaway is both presidents got a lot done. The fact is the number show, Joe Biden got a lot more done. He was just more successful.

And that doesn't mean getting more done the way you would want or I would want. We did this study based on what the president's administrations themselves said they got done.

TAPPER: Yeah.

GLASTRIS: And we dug into their claims. We threw out the dubious ones and the small ones. We -- and then we describe them. We fact check them and when you add them all up, Donald Trump has his accomplishments, Joe Biden has more.

TAPPER: Yeah.

Let's look closely at legislation and this might be a key as to why ultimately, in this examination, Biden accomplish more. You say Biden wins the category of legislating, largely in part because he took bipartisanship seriously, and Trump did not.

Explain what you mean.

GLASTRIS: So Joe Biden, as we all know, is a veteran lawmaker who was patiently willing to work with leaders in -- of the other party in Congress.

TAPPER: Perhaps too much so for some progressives.

GLASTRIS: Absolutely.

TAPPER: Yeah.

GLASTRIS: But as a result, he signed many, many major historic bills.

Donald Trump, amateur, had never served in public life and famously didn't get along with Chuck Schumer and the Democrats and his inability to cut deals hurt him on his achievements.

[16:40:03]

He's simply signed fewer bills. You know, he came to office with a -- about a -- ten major bills he wanted to sign, infrastructure we remember was one of them. He didn't get them done.

He got a few done. He got a big tax bill done, and that's a category that he wins in our ranking, in our -- in our index, presidential accomplishment index. But, you know, that is just one where he failed, compared to Joe Biden.

TAPPER: So based on all this analysis, based -- and I guess based on what they're saying out there, what they want to accomplish in a second term if Trump wins a second presidency, what do you think that might look like?

GLASTRIS: Well, you know, looking at what they did in the past gives you a sense of what they're going to do in the future. One of the things Donald Trump says in private, in his fundraisers because the -- the big money likes to hear it is, he is more proud of his regulatory reform then he is even of his tax cuts.

And he had a huge attempt to deregulate the government. He wasn't that successful. Seventy percent of the cases that got brought before the courts is deregulation were he lost, versus 30 percent for the average presidency. So he didn't regulate as much as Joe Biden but the measure is, did -- was he a good day regulator? Not so much.

Whereas Joe Biden regulated a lot, but that was what he meant to do. He wanted to use regulations to advance his agenda.

TAPPER: What about -- what about a second Biden term? What might that look like?

GLASTRIS: Well, I think -- you know, we see in Joe Biden, someone who on national security believes in the supporting the existing international liberal order. This is what he's done in Ukraine. I think we're going to see more of that.

With Donald Trump, he has a very different idea about foreign affairs. He's -- believes in strength. He thinks dictatorships are stronger than democracies. And we can see with him -- foresee him being less forgiving of NATO, some of NATO's problems, even breaking from NATO, whereas we'll see with Biden more strengthening of NATO.

TAPPER: Yeah. You know, it's interesting. Trump's supporters who won him to get elected in November, they bemoan the fact that some of his greatest accomplishments such as for instance, Operation Warp Speed which rushed a lifesaving vaccine for COVID into people's arms, that he don't -- he doesn't talk about that because of some of the controversy about vaccine requirements and such.

GLASTRIS: Right, right.

TAPPER: And then there's also the Abraham Accords, historic, huge accomplishments, bringing peace and treaties between Israel and several Arab nations. But during the period that Jared Kushner was out there talking about it, Donald Trump was trying to overturn the election.

GLASTRIS: Right.

TAPPER: So in some ways is he's his own worst enemy when it comes to heralding his -- things that are empirically achievements.

GLASTRIS: Absolutely. Joe Biden has sometimes the same problem. The United States is shipping -- is dig -- is creating more oil and putting more oil and natural gas in the markets than every -- anytime before. And he doesn't talk about it because it makes some of his environmentalist voters a little uncomfortable.

TAPPER: Yeah. Know, it's funny because you hear Republicans say talking about oil regulation and gas regulation and this, and that the fact is there's never been more production of domestic fuel in the United States that now.

GLASTRIS: Yeah. And what's really interesting about this packages we look at things like trade, where both presidents took a tougher line toward China and more of a building America approach, but very, very different overall philosophies, and ultimately very different results.

Trump leaned much more on tariffs and bilateral deals. And we saw the number of manufacturing jobs not really grow by much. Whereas Biden has done international multilateral deals and these innervate -- these investments in manufacturing, and to seem quite a big uptick in manufacturing investment and jobs. So, even when they're doing what looks like the same thing, the approaches and the results are different.

TAPPER: Yeah. Well, Biden also kept in a lot of Trump's trade policy --

GLASTRIS: Absolutely.

TAPPER: They're really not that different when it comes to a lot of it.

Anyway, Paul Glastris from the Washington monthly, fascinating article. Thank you so much for coming. Really appreciate it.

Troubling -- sticking point in the talks to pause the Israel-Hamas war, the terrorists groups as it does not have the number of live hostages it's supposed to hand over. Where does that leave negotiations? That's next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:49:14]

TAPPER: Breaking news, police say that five people are under arrest after a shooting at a park in Philadelphia, right near a large Eid celebration. That's a Muslim holiday marking the end of Ramadan.

Lets get straight to CNN's Danny Freeman, who was live near the scene.

Danny, what are you learning from police?

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: And, Jake, what I can tell you is that this is a mess of a scene and police just finished up a press conference. I'm going to tell you what we learned, but let me show you where we are so far. This is the area of west Philadelphia.

We're on just off Girard Avenue. That's 48th street. You can see a tremendous amount Philadelphia police officers and a uniformed officers down there where a lot of gunfire happened.

Basically, what we know is that earlier today, there was an Eid celebration, like you said, to mark the end of Ramadan. It was in this Clara Muhammad Park right here. It was filled with almost 1,000 people. And then in the afternoon, gunshots broke out.

[16:50:02]

Police said almost 30 shots were fired at one point, and then people scattered. We know at this point that five people have been arrested. That's four people who are found, right after the event, and then another who was actually shot by a police officer when that police officer believed that a 15-year-old had a gun shot that -- 15-year-old twice and then he was placed under arrest.

There were two other victims this is well, who were shot, who were part of this gathering. But at this point, they don't believe that it was a targeted shielding at this particular gathering, just something that started between two groups arguing nearby -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Danny Freeman in Philadelphia, thank you so much.

Turning to our world lead now and what may come. It's crushing news for so many people, including especially the families of hostages held by terrorists in Gaza. A source tells CNN that Hamas cannot meet Israel ceasefire request for the return of 40 living Israeli hostages in the category of all women or elderly man, or sick men. Hamas cannot meet this request because Hamas says they don't have 40 living hostages who meet those descriptions.

That does mean it's possible that other terrorist groups have those hostages, or its possible that Hamas simply has no idea where they are. But, of course, this is primarily raising fears that more hostages may have been killed since October 7 than originally thought, killed by Hamas.

For months, Israel has maintained it believes around 100 hostages of the original 250 kidnapped or killed by Hamas are still alive.

Let's bring in CNN's Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem.

Jeremy, how could Hamas's inability to hand over 40 living hostages impact the ceasefire negotiations?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello, Jake, for weeks now, if not months, these two sides have been building towards a potential deal that is centered on two things. A six-week temporary ceasefire as well as the release of some 40 Israeli hostages. And now, we're learning according to two sources, my colleague Alex Marquardt and I, that Hamas is basically saying that they either can't or they don't have 40 hostages who would meet the definitions of those categories, women, elderly men, and those who are wounded or sick.

And this obviously raises two questions. First of all, do they not have them in their custody? Or secondly, do they perhaps not have enough who are alive? And there are certainly strong indications that that may very well be the case.

We know, of course, that the Israeli government has confirmed that some 30-plus hostages held in captivity have been confirmed as dead, but they have particularly high bar, Jake, for actually confirming that those hostages are dead. And so it's very likely that more are dead.

So the question is, where do we go from here? And one of the suggestions from the Israeli government is to fill out the rest of those 40 with men and male soldiers who are also being held hostage, those who would becoming likely in the next phases of a potential agreement.

TAPPER: We heard from Israeli defense minister, Yoav Gallant, today who said Israel is planning a new phase of humanitarian aid into Gaza. Tell us about that.

DIAMOND: Yeah, that's right.

I sat down today along with the other reporters in a roundtable with Yoav Gallant. He said that they plan to flood the zone effectively with aid in Gaza. This is a significant shift both in terms of messaging from the Israeli government, which has said for months now that they were doing everything they could to get enough aid into Gaza. Clearly, they are now turning the spigot on in terms of aid and that is being reflected in the numbers being released by the Israeli government. The daily numbers this week have represented a doubling of the daily number of trucks getting into Gaza being screened by the Israeli military.

Yoav Gallant, the defense minister, he made very clear, Jake, that this is a direct result of pressure from the United States, that it followed his visit to the U.S. a little more than two weeks ago when he came back, he said he directed the Israeli defense establishment to really increase the amount of aid. And there was a security cabinet meeting last week that is approved several steps to increase that flow of aid. We're still waiting, Jake, though for some of those steps actually go

into effect.

TAPPER: And, Jeremy, today, Israel says it killed three sons of Hamas political leader in an airstrike in Gaza. What do we know about this Hamas leader and his sons?

DIAMOND: Yeah, this is Ismail Haniyeh, the political head of Hamas. Three of his sons were killed in this Israeli airstrike on a vehicle they were traveling in, according to the people on the ground, that three of Haniyeh's grandchildren were also killed. The Israeli military confirmed that it targeted three of Haniyeh's sons, claiming that they were militants operating in Gaza.

Haniyeh, for his part, is receiving this news by viewing it as an attempt to influence Hamas's position at the negotiating table and saying that anyone who thinks it will soften Hamas's demands is, quote/unquote, delusional.

But tonight, Jake, multiple Israeli officials scrambling tonight to try and distinguish between this Israeli military action and the Israeli political leadership's views at the negotiating table.

[16:55:04]

Two Israeli officials, Jake, telling me that the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and the defense minister were not aware of the plans for the strike before it happened -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. CNN's Jeremy Diamond in Jerusalem, thank you so much.

Coming up, the rather dramatic move on Capitol Hill by 19 House Republicans. It came just hours after a post by Truth Social from Donald Trump about a key national security bill.

Plus, the hearing over Donald Trump's latest attempt to delay his hush money trial. That hearing is now over what were hearing happened inside the courtroom. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And this hour, the Goon Squad faces the music deep down in Mississippi. The sentencing for six former police officers convicted of torturing two Black men.