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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Tense Protests Rock Major U.S. Colleges Over Israel-Hamas War; Awaiting Judge's Decision On Possible Gag Order Violations; Arizona House Votes To Overturn Century-Old Abortion Ban; Georgia Voters Weight Options Ahead Of Presidential Election; U.S. Chamber Of Commerce Sues FTC Over Noncompete Clauses Ban. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired April 24, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:02]

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: We've seen scenes of tension and violence at the University of Texas and the University of Southern California as well, Brianna.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah, we certainly have and we've been watching these developing. It seems like today there just is a bit of a fever pitch being reached in some of these college communities, particularly USC and UT-Austin today. So, we'll continue to keep an eye on that here on CNN, where THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper,

And we are following a breaking news. Coast to coast, large pro- Palestinian protests underway right now across U.S. college campuses and universities after weeks of tension over the Israel-Hamas war.

At the University of Texas at Austin reports today of, quote, tense interactions and physical struggles. Texas state troopers in riot gear, some on horseback started breaking up a group of pro-Palestinian protesters. Bruce

We're going to begin today with CNN's Nick Watt reporting live from a protest at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles.

Nick, describe what you've been seeing. Have there been -- has there been any violence? Have there been any arrests?

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, to both of those.

Right now, Jake, we are in a bit of a lull. There are dozens of LAPD squad cars parked just off-campus waiting. Now, earlier this morning, this was pretty peaceful until college security tried to move in to clear this grassy area of tents.

It very quickly got ugly. There was cursing, there was pushing. There were shoving. It was an ugly scene. One older security officer I saw being pushed backwards by a group of

younger protesters. He was trying to keep them at arms length, then an arrest was made. That arrested protester was taken to a police car, and that car does then surrounded, so it could not leave the area. The crowd were chanting, "Let him go, let him go".

And you know what, eventually they did. We spoke with seasoned LAPD detective who when he arrived, he realized that Jews wasn't worth the squeeze, that it was not worth keeping that protester in custody for a relatively minor offense because of the absolute chaos it was creating. So that protester was released. And now, we have a loud but peaceful protest marching around this area of grass.

Now, the LAPD here is here because they have been asked by USC to come in and clear this area of tents. Frankly, protesters have already cleared much of it already, so it is unclear if the LAPD will actually have to come on.

As you are seeing right now, it is a peaceful protests. Now if some of the t-shirt, some of the banners suggest a slightly superficial understanding if the history and the reality, but these are some serially held beliefs, and these people here say they are here in solidarity with what has been happening at Columbia and elsewhere in the country.

And they say they will not stop, they will not rest. So --

TAPPER: All right.

WATT: -- let's see how it plays out right now. A lull hopefully lasts -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nick Watt at the USC campus in L.A.

House Speaker Mike Johnson is in New York City right now, live in Columbia University. Let's listen in.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKEAR OF THE HOUSE: -- once at the heart of this university, and that is, that we are in by our Creator with certain unalienable rights, they should not be infringed.

The Founders and the great leaders who had come through this institution in the past, believed in religious liberty. They believed in democracy. They believed in morality and virtue, and the dignity of every human person. They believed in the free exchange of ideas and they detested mob rule.

We are standing here right now on the steps of the Low Library. In this very building right behind us, Columbia University once awarded Winston Churchill an honorary degree and it was Churchill who said, it is manifestly right that Jews should have a national home where they may be reunited. We believe in that principle and today, I'm here to proclaim to all those who gnash their teeth and demand to wipe the state of Israel off the map an attack our innocent Jewish students, this simple truth, neither Israel nor these Jewish students on this campus will ever stand alone. Today, Hamas issued an endorsement statement of the protesters on this

campus. They call them the future leaders of America. It is detestable.

All of this has to be said because the cherished traditions of this university are being overtaken right now by radical and extreme ideologies they place a target on the backs of Jewish students in the United States. And here on this campus, a growing number of students have chanted in support of terrorist. They have chased down Jewish students. They have mocked them and they reviled them.

They have shouted racial epithets. They have screamed at those who bear the Star of David.

(CHANTING)

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Enjoy your free speech.

They've told Jewish students who wear the Star of David to leave the country and shamefully, some professors and faculty of join the mobs. Things have gotten so out of control that the schools canceled in- person classes and now they've come up with this hybrid model where they will discriminate against Jewish students. They're not allowed to come to class anymore for fear of their lives and it's detestable.

As Columbia has allowed these lawless agitators and radicals to take over, the virus of antisemitism has spread across other campuses. By some counts, as many as 200 universities have a similar form of protest right now at Yale, a Jewish student was stabbed in the eye with a Palestinian flag and 45 students were arrested.

At NYU, pro-Hamas protesters were shouting from the river to the sea. Anti-Israel encampments are popping up at universities all across this country.

The madness has to stop. The madness has to stop. We just left a meeting with students, Jewish students who told us that the heinous acts of bigotry that they have experienced simply because of their faith, their bravery is inspiring. Much more inspiring, and some of the activities were seeing here.

They should never have to confront such hate on an American college campus, instead of such a revered institution. Antisemitism has been growing in America, and its clear why -- powerful people have refused to condemn it, and some have even peddled it themselves.

From university professors to public officials, people in positions of authority have denied the horrific facts of September 11, 2001. The attacks on the United States that happened right here in New York City and they've attempted to excuse or to ignore the barbaric attack of Hamas in Israel on October 7, 2023, where Israeli women and children were savagely raped and murdered, and infants were cooked in ovens.

Crowds of radical activists and chanted death to America, and on our own streets in this country, and some public officials have refused to condemn them. Others have openly defended these acts on campus and the harassing and the intimidation and the threatening of innocent Jewish students simply because of who they are. They call that peaceful protests, and some of even gone as far as calling for the state of Israel will be eliminated.

These are words we expect from ayatollahs in Iran not American lawmakers and not American students. And unsurprisingly, it has given way to threats and violence in generation of students who feel safe in their own classrooms -- who don't feel safe in their own classrooms or where they live, or where they worshiped. Let me say this very simply, no American of any color or creed should ever have to live under those kinds of threats. That is not who we are in this country.

Sadly, Columbia's administrators have chosen to let the threats, the fear and the intimidation of the mob rule to overtake American principles like free speech and the free -- free exchange of ideas, and the free exercise of religion they have co-opted. First Amendment arguments to protect genocide and to elevate the voices of antisemitism.

They have proven themselves to be incapable of achieving their basic responsibility, which is keeping students safe. We just can't allow this kind of hatred and antisemitism to flourish on our campuses. And it must be stopped in its tracks. Those who are perpetrating this violence should be arrested.

And I'm here today -- I am here today joining my colleagues and calling on president Shafik to resign if she can not immediately bring order to this chaos.

As speaker of the House, I am committing today that the Congress will not be silent as Jewish students are expected to run for their lives and stay home from their classes, hiding in fear. And the House of Representatives, we've already acted to address antisemitism on campuses. We have passed a number of statutes to address this matter, and we call upon the U.S. Senate to act upon our legislation. I have a couple of my colleagues here that I'd like to share a few words.

Ill turn it over first to the chair of the House Education and Workforce Commission, Virginia Foxx. Congresswoman, Virginia Foxx, North Carolina.

TAPPER: Okay. You've been listening to House Speaker Mike Johnson, the Republican speaker of the House from Louisiana, speaking at the Low Library at Columbia University. He was about to introduce other Republican members of Congress that came with him up to Columbia where there's been a tremendous amount of strife. There have been peaceful protests. There have been antisemitic protests.

There have been individually visuals threatening the Israeli operation in Gaza and all the innocent people killed there.

[16:10:06]

There have been a number of Jewish students who have felt intimidated and threatened by protesters on the campus.

I want to go to CNN's Shimon Prokupecz at Columbia University right now.

Shimon, I'm not sure if you are able to hear the students that were heckling Speaker Johnson or not. If you could tell us what they were saying. How are students and faculty reacting to all of everything that's going on today?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, look, I have to tell you, Jake, this is my third day here. The campus is buzzing. I have not seen this many people on campus since I've been here. I was here first came here on Sunday, but these are the steps where the speaker was speaking, and at times you were -- when you were hearing some of the heckling, its actually because they couldn't hear what he was saying.

The onetime that you did hear them is when he called for the resignation of the president of the college. Depends who asked here on campus about how they feel about the speaker being here. Certainly the people who've been protesting in the encampment. They're -- they're not so happy about his presence.

So I wanted to take just quickly show you since were here on the campus here, where the encampment is, it's not very far off from where the speaker is speaking. It's just across here. That is the encampment. That is where the tents are. That is where the students who have been protesting have been sleeping, and has been part of so much of the controversy here at the college because they want the tents gone, the college does. They said that they're violating regulations.

TAPPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

As we were coming to air, I sat down with the governor of Pennsylvania, Josh Shapiro, to talk to him about the results of the primary last night in Pennsylvania, and also about this news about the anti-Israel protests escalating at universities throughout the country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Governor Shapiro, thanks so much for doing this.

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (D), PENNSYLVANIA: Good to be with you.

TAPPER: So, the president of Columbia University is getting a lot of criticism of your fellow Democrat from Pennsylvania, John Fetterman, the senator, has called on her to do her job or resign. What's your take?

SHAPIRO: Well, I think we need to restore some order on campuses at Columbia and across this country. Certainly, students and others have a right to peacefully we protest in adherence with university policy and the laws of the city and the states they're in. I think what's important is that we can allow peaceful protest about a

disagreement on policy happening in the Middle East to be an excuse for antisemitism or Islamophobia on these campuses, we can't allow it to be an excuse that puts certain students at risk to be able to go to classes safely or to be able to warship safely. And universities have a responsibility to ensure the safety and well-being of their students, and to make sure that the rules of the university are being followed.

What I see from afar at some universities, including Columbia, is a situation that is completely out of control and it's incumbent upon the university leadership to get it under control quickly for the benefit of the students and the people in the region.

TAPPER: How is it out of control? I mean, there are lines, everybody -- it's so subjective. Everybody has their own view. Somebody holds up a sign.

I saw one at University of Texas earlier today that said something about Palestine and it's a map of all of Israel, including the West Bank and Gaza, as if that is all Palestine. Does that cross a line? Some Israelis might say, you're saying that Israel shouldn't exist anymore.

There are chants "from the river to the sea" that some people say are just an expression about freedom. And some people say no, that's calling out -- it's calling for the elimination of the Jewish people and the Jewish state. How -- where do you draw the line when it comes to what you consider to be out of control?

SHAPIRO: You know, Jake, there may be some subjectivity to the speech. I think it's clear when you're engaged in antisemitic rhetoric, Islamophobic rhetoric, there should be no place for it.

But even before you get to what's on the sign or what is coming out in the speech, the active gathering in the way that some of these students have at some of these universities violates university policy and may violate the rules of that particular city or that particular state. That can't be allowed in the name of free speech.

And I think several of these universities the leaders across the country just simply losing control of the situation. They have a responsibility to keep students safe. Students shouldn't be blocked from going to campus just because they're Jewish, or learning in a classroom as opposed to being forced online because they're Jewish. It is simply unacceptable.

And you know what? We have to query whether or not we would tolerate this, if this were people dressed up in KKK outfits or KKK regalia, making comments about people who are African American in our communities, certainly not condoning that, Jake, by any stretch.

[16:15:14]

But I think we have to be careful about setting any kind of double standard here on our campuses. We've got to call it up for. We've got to call it up for what it is. And these university leaders have to make sure there is order on their campuses.

TAPPER: So, you know, it's the progressives that are making the arguments here. This isn't the KKK, the far right. It's progressives.

When I posted a picture on X or Twitter of a swastika that somebody had drawn on a sign at the synagogue where I was bar mitzvah in Wynnewood, Pennsylvania, outside Philly, there were progressives saying on social media well then the Israeli government shouldn't act like Nazis. That's where this is coming from. This specific, there's certainly tons of antisemitism on the right, don't get me wrong, and I've heard from them as well.

But that's where this antisemitism is coming. The people who are saying Hamas, we love you or set Tel-Aviv on fire, or call praising October 7, which they call the Al-Aqsa flood. These are -- these are streets full of progressives.

SHAPIRO: And look, Jake, there are people with strongly held views and righteous views, whether you and I agree with them or not is really irrelevant here, who really fundamentally disagree with Israeli policy. They don't like the direction that things are going in the Middle East, and they should have a --

TAPPER: Plenty of Israelis would feel that way. But I'm not even talking about disagreeing with Netanyahu. I'm talking about whether or not people support terrorists killing civilians.

SHAPIRO: Well, I think that it breaks down and leaves a conversation about policy is when you engage in antisemitism.

I also think that it's incumbent upon those who are for out protesting, who are out expressing these views to actually know some history, to actually know how we landed ourselves in this situation in the Middle East, to have thoughtful, constructive views on how to see a way forward. I'm someone who I see, no nuance when it comes to a conversation about antisemitism.

We should all be against it. See a lot of nuance in the Middle East. I think we should have a two-state solution. I think Benjamin Netanyahu has only been a horrible leader for Israel over many, many years, predating October 7th. He is someone who's leading Israel down a dangerous and destructive path.

He opposes the very thing I'm for, a two-state solution. I've got real disagreements with the way the Israeli government functions when it comes to protecting the rights and freedoms of their people. But there should be no nuance, there should be no daylight between anyone on the left or the right, Democrats or Republicans, when it comes to standing up and combating antisemitism in our communities.

TAPPER: There is a political dimension to this because, obviously, a lot of people who hold the views were talking about who are really passionate against, not just what the Israeli government and the Israeli defense forces are doing in Gaza, but just the existence of Israel are against Biden, turning against Biden. Yesterday's election and the commonwealth of Pennsylvania, the

commonwealth, 5.3 percent of voters Democratic voters opted to write in a candidate instead of voting for Joe Biden. Now 5.3 percent isn't -- isn't huge, but, but the number was almost 10 percent in Philadelphia county. And at three voting precincts on the campus of the University of Pennsylvania if you add them all together, Biden only received 63.7 percent of the vote, 28 percent of voters in the primary on Penn's campus chose to write in a candidate, an option encouraged by activists seeking to express opposition to Biden's foreign policy in the Israel-Hamas war. I'm quoting "The Daily Pennsylvanian" there.

Does this suggest to you that Biden has some work to do when it comes to convincing professionals, young people, progressives in Pennsylvania?

SHAPIRO: It suggests to me that there's work to do, it also suggests to me that people want to use the power of their vote to send a message. And I appreciate that.

I think at the end of the day, it will be the important for them to understand that they really have a binary choice between Donald Trump someone who wants to rip away their freedoms, whether its the right to choose the right to be who you are, someone who is going to be dangerous and destructive when it comes to the global leadership that America needs to provide someone who has a failed economic track record versus Joe Biden, someone who they have a profound and honest difference with over one particular piece of his conduct to in foreign policy.

I think when there's a binary choice at the end of the day, they will come back to Joe Biden. Importantly, I think its also something that notable that last night in Pennsylvania, when the votes were tallied, we're still tallying a few here and there, but just looking at the broader numbers, about 160,000 registered Republicans went to the polls and voted for Nikki Haley.

[16:20:04]

About 110,000 to 120,000 voted for someone other than Joe Biden on the Democratic side, as you were alluding to before. That's a delta of about 40,000, 45,000 votes to the negative of Donald Trump.

Just put that in some perspective. In 2016, in Pennsylvania, Donald Trump only won the commonwealth by 44,000 votes. He's got a lot of work to do to win over voters, particularly in suburban communities outside Harrisburg and Erie, Pittsburgh, and, of course, Philadelphia, people who are incredibly angry that he ripped away their fundamental freedoms when he -- and he's taken credit for this -- overturned Roe v. wade.

That's going to continue to be an issue that he's not making any inroads on. So I think each candidate has some work to do. The hill is quite steeper for Donald Trump to climb.

TAPPER: All right. Governor Shapiro, thanks so much for being here. SHAPIRO: Thank you.

TAPPER: We are going to keep monitoring these protests on campuses from coast to coast.

This programming note, Speaker Mike Johnson will be a guest tonight on "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT". That's right here on CNN, coming up at 7:00 Eastern, only here on CNN.

Up next on THE LEAD, within a matter of hours, two immensely consequential cases are going to come for the nine justices of the U.S. Supreme Court. The first pits state level abortion bans versus federal law, which one wins out in a medical emergency. How this challenge could have national implications.

Also, the case involving former President Trump hits the Supreme Court. Can he be prosecuted for potential crimes he committed while he was president or do presidents have immunity? We're going to lay out the argument that will test future power of presidents.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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TAPPER: And we're back with our law and justice lead.

At any moment now, in New York, Judge Juan Merchan could issue a ruling on whether Donald Trump, in his view, violated the gag order that he imposed in the New York hush money case.

The gag order prohibited Trump or was supposed to prohibit him from making any public statements about any witnesses or jurors or court staff, or family members, or staff of the judge or prosecutor.

In the hearing yesterday about the gag order, prosecutors outline ten examples of Trump allegedly violating the gag order, attacking Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels sleazebags, calling Michael Cohen a serial perjurer.

But what's happening in Manhattan is not even Trumps biggest legal battle of the week. Tomorrow, the Supreme Court, the U.S. Supreme Court is set to hear arguments in Trumps presidential immunity case.

And with me now to discuss, former federal prosecutor Gene Rossi, as well as former chief assistant district attorney in the Manhattan district attorney's office. Karen Friedman Agnifilo.

Karen is of counsel for a firm that represents Michael Cohen, but she has no contact with Cohen, does not work on his case. And there are no restrictions on what you can say about the case. We just wanted to make sure you knew that.

Karen, if court is not in session today, does it make it -- doesn't make it more likely that Judge Merchan is going to issue this ruling on Trump's possible gag order violations. And if not, then when? KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Judge Merchan has what's called a calendar day, all his other cases are on the calendar today, so he's dealing with those matters. He certainly could issue a ruling in this case today, or he could wait until tomorrow when court is back in session and the parties are there, you might render his decision in front of them. Or he could issue -- he could just drop a written decision anytime.

TAPPER: So, Gene, Michael Cohen, he got some public heat after -- after he -- after he referred to Donald Trump disparagingly on Twitter or X, calling him something like von poops and pants, but a little cruder.

GENE ROSSI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Right.

TAPPER: Today, he just posted and he says, quote, despite not being the gagged defendant, out of respect for Judge Merchan and the prosecutors, I will seize posting anything about Donald on my X, formerly Twitter, account or on the "Mea Culpa" podcast, that's his podcast until after my trial testimony. See you all in a month.

Prosecutors have got to be happy about that because it wasn't helping.

ROSSI: Well, if I had been a prosecutor on this team and it's a great team, I would have told Michael Cohen and his attorney, shut up. Take your fingers off the keyboard. That post he had a few days ago about President Trump Mr. Trump, that was over -- that crossed the line?

TAPPER: How does -- how does it affect his testimony? Because I guess the defense could say you have a vendetta. You're not thinking -- you're not a rational actor kind of thing.

ROSSI: If I were the defense attorney, I would use some of his tweets, some of his podcasts, some of his interviews over the last four years picked strategic, maybe three or four to show he has a deep animus towards President Trump. It's not just I'm telling the truth, I'm telling the truth in my mind because I hate his guts. And that's a very bad look for any witness especially for the prosecution.

TAPPER: Karen, earlier today, Donald Trump posted on Truth Social, quote: The gag order imposed on me, a political candidate running for the highest office in the land is totally unconstitutional. Nothing like this has ever happened before. The conflicted judges, friends, and party members can say whatever they want about me, but I am not allowed to respond.

First of all, is any of that true? And second, can you explain why a gag order would be used in a case like this?

AGNIFILO: Well, first of all, this gag order is largely almost identical to the gag order imposed in federal court by Judge Tanya Chutkan in the presidential -- in the case that is going to be in the Supreme Court tomorrow. It's on pause on the presidential immunity issue, the Jan 6th insurrection case. And that was upheld by the D.C. Circuit. They limited it slightly and this mirrors that. So for him to say it's never been done, it's unconstitutional. That's

actually false. It -- like I said, it's actually the law in -- of the land, according to the federal courts.

And so, it absolutely is fine. It's constitutional, it's necessary because the judge has to keep control of his courtroom. He has to make sure that witnesses aren't intimidated. And in particular, the jurors, and that's I think what's really concerning is that he comments on the jurors and it's very difficult to get people, just average people to serve on jury duty if they have to worry about something like that.

[16:30:04]

ROSSI: I have a key point. I just read the transcript of the first day, right before openings before I came here. And I don't know if a lot of people have talked about it.

We had the juror last week who is scared and was asked to get off. There was a juror before openings this week, a juror -- I won't mention a gender, I won't mention a number.

But this juror, he or she asked to speak to the judge because of this juror lived alone and he or she was afraid for their safety. Now, the juror remains on the jury, but it is affecting jurors who are still on a jury, and that's why this gag orders so important.

And my guest colleague, she's absolutely right. There's nothing unconstitutional about a gag order. You have to protect the integrity of the courtroom.

TAPPER: Yeah. People are afraid of a visit from the goon squad.

Gene Rossi and Karen Friedman Agnifilo, thanks to both you.

Coming up next, the other consequential case before the U.S. Supreme Court today. The ripple effect this one could have when it comes to abortion rights across the country.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:35:01]

TAPPER: We have some breaking news for you now. Arizona's House of Representatives has voted to overturn that 1864 ban on abortion that was set to take effect in just a few weeks.

The state Supreme Court ruled earlier this month you might recall that Arizona, now that Roe v. Wade is gone, must adhere to the 1864 law that bars all abortions except in cases when necessary to save a pregnant woman's life. But that means all abortions for rape, all abortions for incest. A law passed decades before women had the right to vote.

If the repeal passes, the Arizona state senate, then Democratic Governor Katie Hobbs is expected to sign it. That would leave the state's 15-week abortion restriction on -- in place, one signed by the previous Republican governor.

Also in our health lead, the U.S. Supreme Court hearing arguments today in what could be the most significant abortion case since Dobbs when it overturned Roe v. Wade two years ago. The nine justices on the court appeared deeply divided today over Idaho's strict abortion ban, which outlaws abortions in nearly every circumstance.

As CNN's Paula Reid reports for us now, at issue in this case is whether the state is allowed to criminalized abortions in medical emergencies when the mother's life is at risk.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Today, the Supreme Court heard another historic case on abortion as protesters on both sides of the issue gathered out front. The high- stakes hearing focused on Idaho's abortion ban and how it applies in medical emergencies.

The state allows exceptions when the life of a mother is at risk, but the Biden administration sued the state, arguing that federal law requires the state to allow the procedure if it is needed to stabilize a patient even when the mother's condition is not yet life- threatening.

Joshua Turner argued for the state and faced a barrage of medical hypotheticals from the liberal justices.

ELENA KAGAN, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: All of these cases are rare, but within these rare cases, there's a significant number where the woman is -- her life is not in peril, but she's going to lose her reproductive organs. She's going to lose the ability to have children in the future unless an abortion takes place.

REID: Conservative Justice Amy Coney Barrett joined her liberal colleagues in pressing Turner on the states position and how it leaves doctors open to prosecution.

JOSHUA TURNER: If they were exercising their medical judgment, they could in good faith, determined that lifesaving care was necessary and that's my point, is this a subjective standard.

AMY CONEY BARRETT, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: But some doctors couldn't, is some doctors might reach a contrary conclusion, I think is what Sotomayor is asking you So, if they reached, if they reached the conclusion that the legislature's doctors did, would they be prosecuted under Idaho law?

TURNER: No, no. If they -- if they reached the conclusion that the -- Dr. Reynolds, Dr. White, did that, these were life --

BARRETT: What if the prosecutor thought differently? What if the prosecutor thought, well, I don't think any good faith doctor could draw that the conclusion, I'm going to put on my expert?

TURNER: And that Your Honor, is the nature of prosecutorial discretion.

REID: Justice Barrett and Chief Justice John Roberts had tough questions for both sides and could end up being the swing votes that determine the outcome.

Elizabeth Prelogar argued for the government that Idaho is subject to a federal law called the Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act, or EMTALA.

ELIZABETH PRELOGAR, SOLICITOR GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: In Idaho, doctors have to shut their eyes to everything except death. Whereas under EMTALA, you're supposed to be thinking about things like, is she about to lose her fertility? Is her uterus going to become incredibly scarred because of the bleeding? Is she about to undergo the possibility of kidney failure?

REID: She faced questions from conservatives about how to protect unborn children.

SAM ALITO, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE SUPREME COURT OF THE UNITED STATES: Have you seen abortion statutes that use the phrase unborn child? Doesn't that tell us something?

PRELOGAR: It tells us that Congress wanted to expand the protection for pregnant women so that they could get the same duties to screen and stabilize when they have a condition that's threatening the health and well-being of the unborn child.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

REID: A decision on this case is expected in late June, right in the middle of the presidential election campaign season -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Paula Reid, thanks so much for that report.

This next one is also a big deal. The fine print that makes some 30 million American workers beholden to the employer who pays them. There's an attempt to make a clause in your contract illegal. It's the non-compete clause, but the process might not be so clean cut.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:43:55]

TAPPER: In our 2024 lead, a significant political shift in Georgia that could have a major impact on the presidential election this November.

Voters in the all-important Atlanta suburbs who helps secure President Biden's narrow victory against Donald Trump in 2020 -- well, they may go in an entirely different direction this November. It's the latest in John King's latest "All Over the Map" series.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The 2020 Georgia margin was just shy of 12,000 votes. So every shift here matters.

Kim Cavaliere is a school nurse in Gwinnett County, just east of Atlanta. It was reliably red when she moved here from Massachusetts 23 years ago, but Biden one Gwinnett by 18 points in 2020.

KIM CAVALIERE, GEORGIA VOTER: I was actually shocked because I figured Georgia wouldn't flip like that.

KING: Cavaliere is with Democrats on her big issues, health care, prescription drug costs, guns. But she voted third party in 2016 and 2020 and might again this year.

I just don't feel comfortable with Biden's age and I don't feel comfortable with Trump's mouth.

KING: Rebel Tea House is indicator, part of DeKalb County just outside of Atlanta.

[16:45:04]

Christine Nguyen started the business so she could leave behind the stress of being an ICU nurse during COVID.

CHRISTINE NGUYEN, GEORGIA VOTER: We were like right there front line and there were all these battles about like, you know, whether or not we should be vaccinated, seeing all the death didn't help either.

KING: As a medical professional, when you watch him as your president, what was your reaction?

NGUYEN: I definitely didn't want Trump to win, again.

KING: Yet, she didn't vote.

You support LGBTQ rights, reproductive rights, younger voter, but Biden didn't do it for you.

NGUYEN: Yeah.

KING: Why?

NGUYEN: Yeah. I think because he was out of touch with our generation.

KING: But this year is different. Even though Nguyen still has reservations about Biden.

NGUYEN: The battle that's going on right now with abortion, I think that that's something that, you know, speaks to me. KING: Dunwoody is another DeKalb enclave. Jan and Celia Gardner, consistent Republican votes, as they have lived Atlanta's giant suburban shift.

JAN GARDNER, GEORGIA VOTER: We probably were pretty much it conservative community. We are now a split community.

KING: Jan Gardner calls Biden weak, believes the second Trump term would help the economy and fix the border. He says it's time to move on from debates about the 2020 election, but he does echo other Trump grievances.

GARDNER: I don't think we trust the DOJ. I don't think we trust the FBI. I don't think we trust the CIA. We don't trust most of government on -- we just don't.

KING: This line is for a food bank in Atlanta's Rove Park neighborhood.

Carey Fulks grew up here, moved back in with his parents during COVID.

CAREY FULKS, GEORGIE VOTER: Life now, part-time substitute teacher, part-time DoorDash or part-time, everything almost.

KING: All you can do right now, you can find.

FULKS: All I could find at the moment, just taking whatever jobs come.

KING: Fulks is 35, wants to keep Georgia blue, wishes Biden had yielded to someone more energetic.

Who is there now to lead the Democratic Party? Like we don't really know. And for all the negative things you can say about the Republicans, they at least have people out there running who seem passionate.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KING (voice-over): Jake, just like last time from visiting, Georgia is going to be close and the suburbs, they're getting more Democratic. Why? Because they're getting more diverse, they're getting more highly educated. They're getting less white.

That factor is still stays. There are a lot of doubts about Biden though with his age, however, now everyone is aware of Georgia is battleground, really fascinating. People say, wow, that's ballot (INAUDIBLE), I have to vote.

I think that changes the dynamic. People who sat out last time thinking my vote might matter, they'll show up.

TAPPER: Yeah. What was it? Eleven thousand votes?

KING: Eleven thousand seven hundred and seventy-nine.

TAPPER: But who's counting? John King, thanks so much. Another "All Over the Map".

Coming up next, employer contracts and that binding noncompete clause that keeps so many of you stuck with your employer possibly longer than you want. The new attempt to make noncompete clauses illegal. That's next.

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[16:51:59]

TAPPER: Our money lead now. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce has announced that they're going to sue the Federal Trade Commission over the FTC's new ban on noncompete clauses. The FTC estimates that 30 million Americans, or nearly one in five of you, are currently bound to these types of contracts which allow employers to keep you from getting a job with a competitor once you're in -- your work with the company ends.

Joining us now to discuss, the FTC chair herself, Alina Khan.

Madam Chairwoman, thanks so much for joining us.

So let's just start with the news. The Chamber of Commerce is suing you and the FTC. They argue this is an unlawful power grab, one that will undermine American businesses' ability to remain competitive, that this ban sets a dangerous precedent for government micromanagement of business and can harm employers, workers, and our economy unquote.

What is your response?

LINA KHAN, CHAIR, FEDERAL TRADE COMMISSION: We're so excited to have been able to finalize this rule, which is undoubtedly going to be good for American workers giving them more opportunity to freely pursue a new job opportunity. Go start their own business and bring a new idea to market. It's also going to be great for the American economy, creating new businesses and promoting innovation.

So this is the right thing to do. We have clear legal authority to do so and our rule lays out an extensive detail why that is. The FTC has also done this before. We've promulgated dozens or and so were confident that we'll be able to prevail.

TAPPER: So as of right now, the noncompete -- there's a ban on it or it just -- it has to be litigated first? For instance, I have a noncompete, most on-air media people have on noncompetes. I don't have it anymore, or I have to wait?

KHAN: So the rule is going to go into effect around September.

TAPPER: OK.

KHAN: And after it goes into effect, employers will be banned from entering into new noncompetes. For existing noncompetes, if you're a senior executive, if basically you work in the boardroom and existing noncompete well be able to stay in place because generally, senior executives have negotiated over this, their compensation package usually reflects that, but for everybody else the noncompete, even those that are in place, will no longer be enforceable and employers will have to inform workers that they're not going to enforce that noncompete.

TAPPER: So I was surprised to hear how prevalent these non-compete clauses are. Its not just folks like me are folks in the worlds of high finance or tech. It's a lot of people tell us more about that.

KHAN: That's right, Jake. You're absolutely right. These noncompete started off in the boardroom, but over the last few decades, they've proliferated across sectors and across income levels. And so, we're talking about janitors, security guards, fast food workers, as well as engineers, doctors.

After the FTC proposed this rule last year, we got 26,000 comments from Americans across the country sharing their stories of how noncompetes had kept them stuck in abusive jobs, forced them to uproot their families, or prevented them from launching their own business.

[16:55:14]

And just to give you a few examples, we heard from a bartender who was making less than minimum wage. She was subjected to harassment in her job and so, she found a better opportunity with painting restaurant. But when she left for that better job, who original employ, her sued her for $30,000.

We also heard from a doctor in Appalachia who explained that in rural America, noncompetes means that if a doctor wants to switch hospitals, they have to leave the area and abandon their patients entirely. We heard from a founder of a biotech startup who shared how noncompetes mean that scientists, the most talented scientists, are not able to work on the most innovative discoveries and that slows down the development of new treatments and your cure.

So this is real effects on real people.

TAPPER: FTC Chair Lina Khan, you're doing a lot of very interesting, provocative, controversial things. We'd love to have you back. Please come back.

KHAN: Would be happy to be back. We're keeping a close eye on protests erupting on several major U.S. college campuses right now. We've seen live images of growing demonstrations at USC and Los Angeles, UT- Austin, Columbia University, and more. The breaking news, ahead.

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