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The Lead with Jake Tapper

More Than 400 Arrests At U.S. Universities In Past 24 Hours; House Set To Vote On Antisemitism Awareness Act Today; Similarities & Differences Ahead Of Dems' Chicago Convention; Blinken Pushes Netanyahu On Aid, Rafah, Hostage Deal. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired May 01, 2024 - 16:00   ET



BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Trump has another stop later in Michigan. We're going to be monitoring that and we'll keep an eye on his next campaign stop up to see what happens there. He says a lot of people are happy, but we've seen the polls. A lot of people also are not and this continues to be a problem for him.

ALEX MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: He hit on all kinds of things -- on campus protests, praising the police in New York for getting those protesters out of that building.

So we will continue to watch that speech of the former president.

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.


JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Campus protests erupting in violence.

THE LEAD starts right now.

From New York to California and points in-between, protests going beyond just protests, students barricading themselves in buildings, confrontations between students and police, and some places vigilante group showing up. Coming up a detailed look at all the chaos.

Plus, Secretary of State Antony Blinken is in Israel. He's trying to push a ceasefire as Prime Minister Netanyahu pledges to attack Rafah in Gaza regardless of what the U.S. wants. We're going to take you to the situation on the ground in Gaza.

Plus, from the trial so the trail. Donald Trump hitting two battleground states today. Can he avoid yet another gag order violation as the hush money cover up case takes a day off before resuming tomorrow morning?


TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're going to start today with our national lead and this new round of protest flaring up on college campuses today, some of which have turned incredibly violent.

More than 30 people were arrested at the University of Wisconsin- Madison, this morning. Police say at least for police officers were injured, including a state trooper who was hit in the head with a skateboard, we're told.

Classes have been canceled at UCLA today after violence erupted between anti-Israel protesters in an encampment and counter protesters overnight. One antiwar protester told CNN that bricks mason, pepper spray were involved, though, CNN has not been able to confirm those details.

The New York Police Department meanwhile says their officers will be positioned around the campus of Columbia University for at least the next two weeks after an estimated 300 people were arrested last night at Columbia and the nearby City College of New York. Officers were forced to climb through a second story window they say to clear out protesters who had occupied the school's Hamilton Hall, some of the occupiers having vandalize the building.

New York City leaders now say this particular building occupation was led by individuals who are not affiliated with Columbia University.

CNN's Nick Watt starts off our coverage from the UCLA campus with a closer look at what exactly is happening on colleges across the United States.


NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Early this morning, campus police arrested dozens, clearing an encampment at the University of Wisconsin-Madison.

DAHLIA SABA, STUDENTS FOR JUSTICE IN PALESTINE, UW-MADISON: They started pushing them. They started shoving them. Students were held down with batons.

WATT: Most were released without citations. College officials say its unclear how many were affiliated with the school. They say some resisted arrest, report four law enforcement officers were injured and say peaceful protests that abide by campus rules are still allowed, just no tents.

MARC LOVICOTT, COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, UW-MADISON POLICE: We are grateful that are protesters are still here and they are exercising their First Amendment right.

WATT: Last night in New York, police dressed in riot gear, arrested around 300 as they cleared Columbia University's Hamilton Hall, which had been occupied by pro-Palestinian protesters. Here on the campus that largely kicked off this now nationwide movement.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS (D), NEW YORK CITY: There are individuals and organizations that are not students. We see a shift in tactics that are being used, destruction of property, destruction of cameras.

WATT: Columbia's president said the, quote, drastic escalation of the protests, push the university to the brink.

Overnight at UCLA, counter protesters, pro-Israel protesters among them, breached the barricades around the pro-Palestinian encampment, which also breaches UCLA campus rules. A firecracker thrown in, cones and more flying through the darkness, pepper spray from inside that camp. The college newspaper photographed a counter protester spraying from an aerosol can. "Daily Bruin" reporters on the scene were slapped and indirectly sprayed with irritants. We are sickened by this senseless violence and it must end, said the college spokesperson.

Ever since this encampment sprang up Thursday morning, tension has been mounting. The first scuffles Thursday afternoon, more over the weekend, hence, the barriers and the bottom buffer zone that was breached last night.

The university has allowed the protesters to control who enters the camp. Monday, a Jewish student posted this protesters well outside of their encampment, he says, blocking his way.

ELI TSIVES, UCLA STUDENT: They're not letting me walk in.


My class is over there. I want to use that entrance.

WATT: UCLA called this abhorrent and removed those barriers. Then last night, this --


VINCENT DOEHR, UCLA STUDENT: What happened last night was an attack on our encampment by Zionist thugs that the university did nothing to stop.

WATT: UCLA has until now kept security light, the LAPD out of sight until late last night.

But after what happened today, law enforcement is on-site and all classes are canceled.


WATT (on camera): So, this is where all went down late last night and into this morning. The protesters say they are undeterred, they're reinforcing their barricade. We can hear the power drill -- there we go.

But the other thing the college has done now that exclusion zone extends way 50 or 60 yards back over there. So, counter protesters will not be allowed as close as they were last night.

Governor of California, Gavin Newsom, put out a statement: The limited and delayed campus law enforcement response at UCLA last night was unacceptable and it demands answers.

We've asked for answers and we're still waiting for them. When it's going to end? Who knows? The major commencement here at UCLA isn't until the middle of June -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nick Watt, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Let's go live to Columbia University now. CNN's Polo Sandoval is right off campus for us.

Polo, have any protests return to Columbia today?

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's quite a distinction here, Jake. You know, it was just 24 hours ago that I was witnessing one of the occupiers of the Hamilton Hall building you see over my right shoulder, on top of the roof waving a Palestinian flag. It really is a night and day difference. There is a relative calm that we've now seen, not only here off-campus, but also on campus as well, and today for the first time in pretty much two weeks, any member of the Columbia University who wishes to participate in these sort of gathering for protests, if they want to do that, they have to do it on those sidewalks around the space here.

And that is really what we've seen most of today. The sidewalk for now has gone silent, but earlier today, we did see pro-Palestinian demonstration pop up at the only gate that's been used. It's also where we met earlier today, a young man named Suleyman Ahmed. He is expected to graduate this coming May.

And he also represents an additional voice and all this. And that is a majority of the Columbia students who have not been actively participating in any demonstrations, and those who would like more normalcy on campus.


SULEYMAN AHMED, COLUMBIA SENIOR: I feel worse all the way around given the events that have transpired. But I really, really hope that there can be some sort of return to normalcy without a police presence because I think that's what I would like when I graduate.


SANDOVAL: You see Ahmed already wearing his cap and gown. And again, he hopes to do that in a matter of weeks in terms of NYPD, however, they will maintain a presence here that space based on the request that came in from the Columbia University President Minouche Shafik.

We also heard from Mayor Eric Adams early today, which you heard some of his remarks a short while ago. Next piece he added that he believes are based on the intelligence from the NYPD that outside agitators, as he described them, likely influence some of these demonstrations has started two weeks ago leading to some of that chaos unfolded last night.

TAPPER: All right. Polo Sandoval, thanks so much.

Let's bring in CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller. John previously served as a deputy commissioner of the New York Police Department. So John, the chief of the NYPD, says that they've been going --

they've been having ongoing discussions with universities in New York City right now. How are police preparing behind the scenes to stop violence? And how are they also preparing to allow peaceful protests?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: So the dialogue with the university -- universities is basically, you know, let's establish the rules of engagement. Do we want to, when you have an encampment going or if a building has taken over, do you want to move in early, nip this in the bud while its small or do you want to let it play out at which point it can grow bigger and require a much bigger response and frankly, a lot more drama attached to it.

Columbia University asked the police to clear out the west lawn a couple of weeks ago and they did that. But then they didn't post that with any barricades or officers and, of course, that protest group back in and took the hard turn of taking over a university building and doing a lot of damage inside.

So what they are -- what they're -- the learning curve that universities and police in New York are in, and this reflects a little bit on the rest of the country is when do you move? How long do you let these things go and how assertive a position do you take with your students?

TAPPER: So there's some back and forth about whether or not there are elements that are not student elements in these protests.


New York City Mayor Eric Adams said today that the NYPD has been able to gather intelligence that some of the people on Columbia's campus in Hamilton building, for example, were not students but actually professional agitators.

Now, there has been some pushback by student journalists at Columbia that no, no, no, it's all students. What can you tell us about that and what kinds of tools are officials using to get that kind of intelligence?

MILLER: Well, in the NYPD, the only people who are allowed by consent decree to investigate political activity or things like protest constitutionally protected activities is the intelligence division of the NYPD. And to do so they, have to establish that there is the possibility, possibility of criminal activity, in this case not complicated when -- when you've got a college building taken over.

How do they collect that intelligence from human sources? They are allowed under the Handschu agreement guidelines to attend any public events. So for much of it, they can be there.

And of course, monitoring social media, which is the communications arm that brings people together in these things. But it's one of those things that they do every day.

TAPPER: And, John, a woman who was once called, quote, the nation's best known protest consultant, confirmed to CNN that she was on the campus of Columbia University advising protein gestures earlier this week. What do we know about her?

MILLER: So when you hear the mayor and when you hear police officials talk about outsiders coming in and changing the atmosphere, that's who they're referring to. The woman who is in the behind this woman with the keffiyeh, there she is, Lisa Fithian, is a nationally known protest organizer.

She has been in the George Floyd anti-police protests. She has been in the anti-Iraq War protests. She's been in the occupied city hall protests in New York, Occupy Wall Street. So she's got a lot of experience.

And what she brings to the table with protesters is training about how to be more effective and what that translates to is how to create more disruption that will get the attention of institutions that aren't responding to their demands. I think if you look at her arrival on the campus, not a student who managed to get onto campus and you watch what's going on in these videos where they are tying with zip ties, a metal table to barricade the doors and the fact that after she arrived in entire building was taken over, you could -- you could assert or assume that she had something to do with it.

She says she was not behind taking over the building. She was just giving them training on better protest tactics.

TAPPER: Yeah. I don't know that they're getting any of their demands met the protesters, but certainly a lot of them are getting suspended and expelled.

John Miller, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Let's go to Fordham University in New York City now where we find CNN's Shimon Prokupecz.

Shimon, tell us what's happening there.

So, this is a protest here that started this morning.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: So, this is a protest here that started this morning, Jake. I want to show you down the street. There are a number of students and other protesters people just from the community who have gathered here and we're hearing the chants. What's driving this is, Jake, let me show you here inside the school. This is inside Fordham University.

I'm hoping you can see here through the window, there are a number of students and there are some alumni that have taken over this lobby be inside the school. Its about a dozen or so. The students that are inside tell us the de has been suspended, the alumni there. Now, there are access to the campus has been deactivated.

We are now waiting on words from the store whether or not they're going to ask the NYPD to come in and remove the protesters that are inside. So that's what's taking place right now. We've seen a professor here at the school here in the lobby negotiating with them. The next steps here are unclear.

The NYPD, as you've just been talking with John Miller, has been communicated with the school to see what they want them to do for now, everyone is just standing by, but there is a high chance that the NYPD will come here and potentially remove these protesters -- Jake.

TAPPER: Interesting, interesting.

All right, Shimon, thank you so much.

Some members of Congress are taking a hand at trying to calm tensions.

I'm going to speak next with a Democrat and a Republican pushing an antisemitism bill. What exactly would it do? That's the big question.

Plus, why the campus protests now have so many similarities to dramatic student-led demonstrations 56 years ago in 1968.



TAPPER: In our national lead, as anti-war protests continue on college campuses across the United States, the United States House of Representatives is expected to vote in just a few minutes on something called the Antisemitism Awareness Act. It would require the Department of Education to offer the same protections given under the Civil Rights Act of 1964 which prohibits discrimination based on race, color, or national origin, those same protections to Jewish students across the United States in grades K through 12.

Joining us now is Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York, who introduced the Antisemitism Awareness Act, as well as Democratic Congressman Jared Moskowitz of Florida who is one of for the 14 Democratic co-sponsors of the bill.

So, Congressman Lawler, what would this legislation actually mean practically when it comes to stopping antisemitism in American schools?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Well, Jake, it would enshrined into law the IHRA working definition of antisemitism and its contemporary examples going back to president Obama, including President Trump and President Biden. Their administrations had have accepted the IHRA working definition as a commonly understood and respected definition of antisemitism.


So this would enshrine it into education law and require the Department of Education to use this definition as part of its Title VI discrimination enforcement cases under the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

And the objective here really, Jake, is to make sure that people understand what antisemitism is. We're seeing it at on college campuses all across this country, calling for death to Jews, death to Zionists, calling for Jews to go back to Poland, calling from the river to the sea, the eradication of the state of Israel.

So we want to be able to define it and enforce the law. And that is the objective here. This was widely respected by the Obama administration, the Trump administration, and the Biden administration.

TAPPER: So, Congressman Moskowitz, I want you to respond to something that Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene tweeted in the last hour about this bill. She says she's not going to vote for it because the legislation given your definition, adhering to the definition of antisemitism, you're going through, it said it could convict Christians of antisemitism for believing -- believing the gospel that says Jesus was handed over to Herod to be crucified by the Jews.

That refers to the part of the definition that you guys are enshrining into law that says that saying that Jews killed Christ is antisemitism. She says Jews handing over Jesus to Herod is gospel.

What's your response?

REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): Well, first, I want Christians to be able to practice however Christians deem that they need to, and we're not interested in messing with the gospel and nor does this language do that.

And I don't think the Jewish community right now is worried what the Jew laser lady has to say. I mean, that's not who we want on our side, so she doesn't want to were helping us protect communities against antisemitism. We're not surprised. She's been one of the people in this hall that has stoked antisemitism in the past.

So, you know, I'm not surprised about this, but this is a bipartisan effort. You're going to see me the majority of members support this today, as they have on other antisemitism resolutions going on out there. This is a really important time right now for the Jewish community, with students being scared on campus.

We've seen this ramp-up, Jake but what we've seen now in the last couple of weeks, the blurriness, the blending of the anti war protests on the Israel-Gaza war and antisemitism, right? That train apparently is never late with the emergence of antisemitism.

And so when, when this happened in Charlottesville, many years ago and there was unanimous condemnation. And then for the people who said good, good people on both sides are for the people who didn't call them out, right? Now, this is another moment. This is another moment.

TAPPER: Right.

MOSKOWTIZ: And now on the other side of the political sphere, now is the moment to say yes, protests are great. First Amendment is great. But now's the moment to say those people over there saying bomb Tel Aviv, go back to Poland, right, all Zionist should die, those people are not with us. Those are not the people of our movement and we're not hearing that, Jake. We're hearing silence. LAWLER: So, Jake, can I just add a few -- a few things here because I think its important to rebut the absurdity that was just thrown into this discussion at the last minute.

Number one, President Trump had an executive order that adopted the IHRA working definition. This bill ultimately would codify that into law to make sure that the Department of Education is using the IHRA working definition for its discrimination enforcement cases, number one.

Number two, it is not in any way saying that if you practice your faith -- and I'm a practicing Catholic, I'm an Irish-Italian Catholic, okay? And I believe in Jesus Christ. I believe in the gospel.

But to somehow use that to say that this bill now is going to prosecute Christians is absurd on its face. It's inflammatory and it's irrational.

What it is saying in using that contemporary example is that these examples maybe consider, but that it depends on the context of what is said. If you're calling all Jews Christ killers, then yes, that is anti-symmetric. And everybody understands that.

But if you're referring to the Bible in context, then, no, nobody is saying that that is antisemitic and nobody is saying that that's -- should somehow be utilized. The issue here is what is happening on college campuses right now.

TAPPER: Right.

MOSKOWITZ: And you have students that are hiding behind the conflict between Israel and Hamas, and somehow spewing antisemitism. And it's being accepted by these universities. So this bill is targeting that.


That is the intent of the bill.

TAPPER: So, Congressman Moskowitz, I want to play something that you're Democratic colleague, Ilhan Omar of Minnesota said over the weekend when she was asked about antisemitism against Jewish students on college campuses. Take a listen.


REP. ILHAN OMAR (D-MN): I think it is really unfortunate that people don't care about the fact that all Jewish kids should be kept safe and that we should not have to tolerate antisemitism or bigotry for all Jewish students, whether they are pro-genocide or anti-genocide.


TAPPER: All Jewish students whether they are pro-genocide or anti- genocide, did you have a response to that, Congressman Moskowitz?

MOSKOWITZ: We were so close to getting a good statement there for the Jewish community. We were so close, and then right at the end, right? We're either pro-genocide or anti-genocide.

Let's straighten this. I'm anti-genocide. My 10-year-old son and my 7- year-old son who are both Jewish boys are anti-genocide. In fact, I haven't met a single Jew who is pro-genocide.

And so, look, that's pouring gasoline on what's going on right now at those comments are obviously dramatically unhelpful.

But, Jake, you see this, this is a schism that unfortunately is going on on my side. And what I don't understand is this should be a layup. There should be easy. It should be easy to say we support people who won a protest. It's their First Amendment right. We support people who want to fight for the rights of Palestinians. We support the people who want to fight against the war. Those are all protected by the First Amendment.

But as soon as it goes into antisemitism, or go back to Poland or bomb Tel Aviv or kill all the Zionists, right, people should be saying, hold on, that's not us. We don't want to be with that. That's not our movement. In fact, you're not helping Palestinians when you say that.

This should be a layup, they should be able to come mount and say this, but no, no. They apparently can't do it. It's a step -- a bridge too far apparently.

TAPPER: All right. Congressman Mike Lawler of New York, Jared Moskowitz of Florida, thanks to both of you.

My next guest says any professors joining in these campus protests should be fired. What else is he saying about these demonstrations? That's next.



TAPPER: In our national lead, a prominent voice in the world of tech and business is out with a brand new book.

But before we get to that, he's also a professor at a prestigious New York University and has strong views on the unrest engulfing campuses across the U.S.

Bestselling author Scott Galloway's new book is called "The Algebra of Wealth". He's also the host of the "Prof G" and "Pivot" podcasts.

I'm going to get your book in a second, Scott, but I do want to get your overall take on all these protests, especially in New York, UCLA, they're everywhere really.

As you look at this unrest unfolding, what is your main takeaway?

SCOTT GALLOWAY, PROFESSOR OF MARKETING, NYU STERN SCHOOL OF BUSINESS: My main takeaway, Jake, is this is more like 1938 to 1968. And I think there's exceptional double standards. I think if I went into the plaza one of these universities and a white hood and a Confederate flag and started saying lynch the Blacks or burn the gays, I don't think there'll be a lot of discussion around First Amendment or nuance.

I think my NYU ID would be shut off by the end of the. day I would never work in academia again. And if I did anything that resembled intimidation or harassment of students and whipped other faculty and students into a frenzy that intimidated students and made them felt unsafe, I think that they call in the National Guard. It strikes me, Jake, that free-speech has never freer when it devolves to hate speech against Jews. I think there's a double standard here.

I want to show you some tape responding to a specific moment from this morning when one or maybe it was yesterday when one of the student protest leaders from Columbia is asking about the demands they're making, specifically demands for food for those occupying Hamilton Hall. I want you to play -- I want to up to play a little bit of her answer. Take a listen.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's ultimately a question of what kind of community and obligation Columbia fields it has to its students. Do you want students to die of dehydration and starvation or get severely ill even if they disagree with you? If the answer is no, then you should allow basic. I mean, its crazy to say because were on an ivy league campus, but this is its like basic humanitarian aid we're asking for, like could people please to have a glass of water.


TAPPER: Humanitarian aid, your thoughts?

GALLOWAY: Well, let appears the revolution will be catered.

I -- like this is -- her defense was they are entitled to a meal plan. It's a meal-plan. Its not DoorDash.

If you break and enter into or you put up a camp, you should be -- you should be charged with trespassing. They should clear the camp.

Peaceful protests, fine. I also just want to say that I think we cut a really wide berth for 19 and 21 year-olds who are exploring their intellectual freedom. I think we should be very forgiving very understanding and very tolerant.

If they do anything that crosses the line around trespassing, property damage and much worse, harassing and intimidating other students who have the right to pursue their education, I think we should take action against those students.

I was suspended at UCLA, Jake, 40 years ago for not paying back of $50 emergency student loan. But there are people now at UCLA passing out bands to white, excuse me, to non-Jews. And if you're Jewish and you don't have a band, you're not allowed to access Powell Library?

So I think we have a different set of standards for this type of hate speech across other things. This student is saying stupid things. In a weird way, I think this is

me good for people who are pro-Israel, because I think that the student leadership are the people who are the spokespeople here, say somewhat irrational things like this. I don't -- I actually think that that statement is sort of embodies what has been a ridiculous level of our inability to articulate what exactly it is they're protesting.

TAPPER: Yeah, I think its fair to say that humanitarian aid is what is desperately need for civilians in Gaza. And it's not a Postmates Chipotle order going to Columbia.


Let's talk about your fascinating new book, "The Algebra of Wealth: A Simple Formula for Financial Security". As we saw today, the head of the Fed is trying to walk this fine line to combat inflation, but not tank economic growth.

What's your advice to viewers feeling confused by all this financial whiplash?

GALLOWAY: Well, you don't need to try and find a needle in the haystack. You need to buy the whole haystack. America, because of its demographics and its history of innovation, the markets are generally up into the right and low-cost index funds. The ability to make more than you spend to save some money, deploy an army capital that fight for you and your family every night.

And also recognize, Jake, that we're going to live a lot longer than we think. A 25-year-old secret weapon is there going to be around for probably another 70 or 80 years and even a 35 or 45 year-old, its absolutely not too late.

But don't -- don't -- you can buy the whole market with S&P, low cost index funds, have some discipline, track your finances, divest so you don't get to hurt with any one stock. That's your Kevlar that protects you from any one stock going down. And then recognize times going to go a lot faster than you think.

But the bottom line is what I try and do in the book, the good news is I believe I know how to get your rich, the bad news is the answer is slowly, but with a little bit of discipline, a little bit of maturity. Some basic strategies, you can have financial security. I think there's a lot of hope. You live in a nation where the markets over the medium and long-term continue to go up.

TAPPER: The book is "The Algebra of Wealth: A Simple Formula for Financial Security", the author is Scott Galloway.

Always great to have you. Thank you so much, sir.

GALLOWAY: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: Next, the striking similarities between the underlying issue fueling campus protests now versus this is what motivated student demonstrations in 1968. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)


TAPPER: Our national, and 2024 leads go together to get today.

So let's cue the music.


TAPPER: So, that's not what I was expecting. But if you are certain age, you'll remember Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young's hit song "Chicago".

It's about a notorious trial in the aftermath of the riot outside the 1968 Democratic national convention in Chicago.

It said history doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes and this year, there's potentially going to be an awful lot of rhyming going on just like and '68.

This summer's Democratic National Convention will be in Chicago and just like in 1968, there is widespread dissatisfaction with the Democratic Party's nominee, especially among young people. Then, it was Hubert Humphrey. Now it's Joe Biden.

In 1968, college campuses across the nation were hotbeds of student unrest at the time over the Vietnam War. I don't know if that sounds familiar to you.

We are, of course, expecting protests in Chicago streets again. This year, mainly over Israel's war against Hamas in Gaza.

But are we headed for a repeat of violence?

Let's bring in someone who was there, CNN's Chris Wallace was in college cutting his teeth as an intern for CBS News during the convention.

Tell us what you were doing and what you saw and what that was like.

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you say how was an intern, but I actually got on the air the first night of the Democratic convention because there was a draft Teddy Kennedy movement. Remember this is just two months after Bobby had been assassinated, Hubert Humphrey was going to go get the nomination. The anti-war movement very much did not want Humphrey and so there was a draft Kennedy movement and it was at the Sherman house hotel in downtown Chicago.

I was the only person there and I spoke to the leader of the draft movement and the former governor of Ohio named Mike DiSalle. And I interviewed him and it ended up on the "CBS Evening News" with Walter Cronkite.

I have to say it was a dream come true. TAPPER: That's pretty cool way to start your internship. What do you

make? We should -- he hit it too hard, they're different. But what do you make of the similarities we are seeing between '68 and 2024 and also the differences.

WALLACE: Well, I think on the surface, as you can see, a lot of those similarities, campus protests in '68 at Columbia and at Hamilton hall, we see it again in 2024, the Democratic Convention functions are going to be in August of that, that following summer and there are Democratic, nominee in that case, Humphrey, this case, the incumbent President Biden, the protesters, particularly not very enthused about.

The difference is it seems to me are much more significant. That was the Vietnam War. We were fighting the Vietnam War. There were half a million Americans in Vietnam and about a third of them, about 150,000 had been drafted. So those are college kids who were worried that they were about to be drafted and sent over. They had a much more personal stake in Vietnam than these guys do, and what's happening in Gaza.

The other big difference was who's in charge in Chicago. Back then, it was Richard J. Daly, the famous mayor, the boss of Chicago, tough- talking Irishman, a supporter of the war. He was boiling for a fight with the protesters, and so with the Chicago police.

The mayor now is Brandon Johnson, who is a liberal, a union organizer, a public school teacher, and he's all about de-escalation, didn't hear a lot about de-escalation 1968.

TAPPER: But what expecting to see and hear in Chicago this summer, we should remind people who don't know, that Hubert Humphrey went onto lose that year and the unrest helped him lose.

WALLACE: Oh, absolutely I think a totally depends on what the state of the war in Gaza is. I mean, if there's a ceasefire, if there's some -- humanitarian aid is getting through, if the hostages had been released, that's one scenario and I think a much less charged scenario.

But if in August of 2024, the Israelis are attacking Rafah, there's a humanitarian bloodbath going on, I think it'll be, as I say, very highly charged.


And I think you'll see a lot of anger in the streets of Chicago.

TAPPER: And lastly, I mean, one of the things about the protests on the college campus is back then -- I mean, there was hostility between like ROTC students and the protesters, but I don't recall and I wasn't alive, but I don't -- I don't know of it being as divisive in terms of the anti-war protesters, then being accused of being anti any other students necessarily. But maybe I'm wrong.

WALLACE: Well, again, I made it. There was some and there were just the people who weren't at that point even in '68, there were a lot of people who get in particularly opposed the war or didn't care all that much.

TAPPER: They just wanted to study.

WALLACE: Yeah. And there was ROTC.

So I mean, there was some tension, but nothing like what you're seeing now between the pro-Palestinian protesters and Jewish students, and this whole thing of antisemitism.

There was not -- none of that kind of ugliness in '68 that you're seeing now in '24.

TAPPER: Chris Wallace, always great to have you here. Thank you so much.

And, of course, you can catch "THE CHRIS WALLACE SHOW" show Saturday mornings at 10:00 Eastern right here on CNN. And then, of course, there's his other show, "Who is talking to Chris Wallace?" streaming on Max, features actor Michael Douglas on these -- this week's episode. He's starring as Benjamin Franklin in a new series.

Coming up next, see the situation in Gaza right now with Secretary of State Antony Blinken today right across the border in Israel.

Stay with us.



TAPPER: Topping our world lead, you're looking at U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken on the Israel side of the key Kerem Shalom border crossing into Gaza. This was today. It was her seventh trip to Israel since the horrific October 7 Hamas terrorist attack.

In a remarkable increase this week, Israel says 351 aid trucks entered Gaza on Tuesday, 276 on Monday.

That's not enough, but still much more than the average of 190 trucks a day for the rest of April and about 160 days -- 160 a day in March, according to the United Nations.

Today, Secretary Blinken acknowledged the progress but pressed for more.


ANTONY BLINKEN, SECRETARY OF STATE: We have seen in recent weeks real meaningful progress that is starting to make a difference for people in Gaza. Yesterday, we were in Jordan. Some of you saw the trucks being loaded in Jordan, they went through Erez for the first time today. And that's very important because that's direct access to the north of Gaza.

We have our own maritime corridor that is probably a week away from being operational. Given the immense need in Gaza, it needs to be accelerated. It needs to be sustained.


TAPPER: He also met with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu for more than two hours today. The U.S. is trying to get the Israeli government and military to stall their planned military offensive in Rafah and to reinvigorate hostage and ceasefire talks.

Secretary Blinken insisted today that Hamas is the only party standing in the way of a ceasefire deal, the one on the table right now.

As "Axios" reports, President Biden has been quote, personally involved in negotiations in recent days.

CNN's Paula Hancocks brings us now the latest from Gaza as World Central Kitchen cautiously resumes operations for the Palestinian civilians, desperate for food a month after Israel admitted and IDF airstrike killed seven of their aid workers.


PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Children cued for food in Deir Al-Balah. For many in the Central Gaza City, it's the first nutritious meal they have had in weeks.

This child says, I haven't been given a meal for months because the kitchen team was struck. We only had canned food.

The World Central Kitchen has resumed operations in Gaza, saying its served 200,000 meals Tuesday, one month after seven of its workers were killed by an Israeli military strike.

ASHRAF AL-SULTAN, WORKING FOR WORLD CENTRAL KITCHEN (through translator): We can see people's desperation. People have no food and we are all displaced.

HANCOCKS: More aid is starting to get in. The U.N. group responsible for supporting Palestinians. UNRWA says, it is the most since late October. U.S. Secretary of State Antony Blinken calls it measurable progress. But both he and UNRWA say its still falls woefully short.

Last week, the World Food Programme said the flow of aid is still crippled by red tape.

MATTHEW HOLLINGWORTH, WORLD FOOD PROGRAMME COUNTY DIRECTOR FOR PALESTINE: Spending hours a day to get through a checkpoint is not good enough. Being able to only use checkpoints for a short period of the day is not good enough. We have enough food. It's, do we have enough access?

HANCOCKS: The Israeli army said Wednesday, it is expanding areas in the south of Gaza to which civilians can move and where they say humanitarian aid will flow its assumed to be part of Israel's plan to evacuate more than 1 million civilians from Rafah on the southern border before a long threatened ground offensive, a move that humanitarian agencies warn would be catastrophic. ANTONIO GUTERRES, U.N. SECRETARY-GENERAL: More than 1.2 million people

are now seeking shelter in Rafah governorates. They have very little to eat, hardly any access to medical care, little shelters and nowhere safe to go.

HANCOCKS: In Gaza, every day, it's a battle to survive the bombing injuries, the lack of food, water, or shelter.

And the situation is worsening by the day, according to the U.N., saying disease and starvation are on the rise.


GUTERRES: We must do everything possible to avert an entirely preventable human made famine.

HANCOCKS: U.N. aid chief Martin Griffiths warned this week, we are in a race to stave off hunger and death and we are losing.


HANCOCKS (on camera): Secretary of State Blinken also visited the Kerem Shalom land crossing today. This is one of the crossings where some of the aid has been getting into Gaza and really putting pressure on Israel to allow more in.

And once it is inside the Gaza Strip to allow it to be distributed to those who desperately it most -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Our thanks to Paula Hancocks for that report.

This just in from the state of Arizona, Arizona's state senate has just voted to repeal that civil war ii era, near total abortion ban, just one of several major developments on abortion in the United States of America, an issue that we're going to dive into next.


TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, here's a question.