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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Whirlwind Campaign For VP Harris As Race Hears 100-Day Mark; Trump Meets With Israel's Netanyahu At Mar-A-Lago; Israeli Athletes Under Heavy Police Protection As Games Kick Off; Kamala Harris Praised "Defund The Police" Movement In 2020 Radio Interview; Vance Claims Democrats Are "Anti-Family" And "Anti-Child"; U.S. Arrests Alleged Drug Cartel Leaders. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired July 26, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:05]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: I mean, LeBron's nervous about meeting you, Coco.

Don't you think?

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Also, if you look at that picture of him on the boat, it looks like some people are nervous about being on the boat. It seemed very jam-packed.

KEILAR: I'm nervous about them being on the boat.

SANCHEZ: I feel like they should've walked or done different, I don't know.

KEILAR: Less people on the boat, maybe, hmm?

SANCHEZ: Different boats. Look at his face. Does that look like joyous (ph)?

We wish Coco and the rest of Team USA the best of look in chasing a gold.

THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Vice President Kamala Harris today on defense about her comments on Israel.

THE LEAD starts right now.

The vice president's office pushing back, rejecting the idea that her comments about Israel could harm ceasefire talks. What the Harris team is saying today, after striking a notable shift in tone.

Then, at Mar-a-Lago, Donald Trump touting his meeting with Benjamin Netanyahu, just one day after saying Israel's war with Gaza is, quote, not good for P.R.

And brand new details on the dramatic arrest of two suspected Mexican drug lords captured in Texas. How a fig trip to the U.S. and some help from El Chapo's son led to the arrest.

(MUSIC)

HILL: Thanks for joining me this afternoon on THE LEAD. I'm Erica Hill, in for Jake Tapper.

And we begin with our 2024 lead. It may be hard to believe, but it's only been a mere five days since President Biden dropped out and Kamala Harris emerged as the likely challenger to former President Donald Trump.

Democrats enthusiasm in response, undeniable. Thousands of new TikToks, the campaign seizing on the Gen Z brat summer -- brat summer trend, some even calling stars like Taylor Swift and hopes that she will endorse Harris.

Zooms for Harris filling up fast, too. Hundreds of thousands joining calls to offer their support. Last night, more than 150,000 joining Zoom with lawmakers and celebrities, including soccer icon Megan Rapinoe, Sue Bird, and also actress Connie Britton.

It ended with more than $2 million raised. But as all this money rolls in, reality is setting in after seeing so much change in just the past five days, much more can we expect with a little over 100 days to go until the election?

We begin with CNN's MJ Lee at the White House, who has been following the ins and outs of Harris all week.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm ready. Let's go.

We're going to have some fun with this two, aren't we?

We are not playing around.

(CHANTING)

HARRIS: Bring it on.

MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A whirlwind five days for Kamala Harris, who is swiftly marching towards the Democratic nomination for president. Since President Joe Biden's decision to drop out of the 2024 race, Harris, working at breakneck speed to raise a stunning amount of cash lock in major Democratic endorsements like this one on Friday.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT (via telephone): We call to say, Michelle and I couldn't be prouder to endorse you.

HARRIS: Thank you, both. It means so much.

LEE: And hitting the road to court voters who will determine the outcome of the 2024 election. HARRIS: You helped elect Joe Biden, president of the United States and me as the first woman vice president of the United States.

(CHEERING)

HARRIS: Our nation needs your leadership once again.

LEE: Harris also turning to weighty matters of foreign policy this week in her first days as a presidential candidate. The vice president meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu at the White House as U.S. officials are pushing to try to finalize a ceasefire agreement.

Afterwards, Harris issuing the White House's most forceful comments yet about the Israel-Hamas war.

HARRIS: I also expressed with the prime minister my serious concern about the scale of human suffering in Gaza, the images of dead children, and desperate, hungry people fleeing for safety. I will not be silent.

LEE: Those comments clearly unsettling Israeli officials with one telling local media outlets, hopefully, the remarks Harris made in her press conference won't be interpreted by Hamas as daylight between the U.S. and Israel, thereby making a deal harder to secure as Netanyahu met with former President Donald Trump in Florida on Friday.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's actually worse than him.

LEE: The prime minister himself also questioning Harris's remarks about the war.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER: To the extent that Hamas understands that there's no daylight between Israel and the United States, that expedites the deal. And I would hope those comments don't change that.

LEE: The vice president's office quickly rejecting that suggestion, with an aide to Harris telling CNN in a statement, Friday, I don't know what they're talking about.

President Biden and Vice President Harris delivered the same message in their private meetings to Prime Minister Netanyahu. It is time to get the ceasefire and hostage deal done.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[16:05:05]

LEE (on camera): And, Erica, this weekend marks 100 days until Election Day, which really means that the vice president has a full sprint until Election Day. And I am told by a source that she has just called into a meeting of our national financing thinking donors on the call for all of their support in the past few days. I'm also told and we know from the campaign that's tomorrow, she is

going to be calling into a youth forum. We've seen so many different ways in which the Harris campaign has really tried to forcefully do outreach to younger voters. We certainly expect that flurry of activity and traveled to continue in the coming days and weeks as her candidacy and her campaign are really beginning to take shape -- Erica.

HILL: They are. MJ Lee, appreciate it. Thank you.

I want to bring in Democratic Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey, joining me now.

Congresswoman, nice to have you with us.

As we look at where things go and it's been a very eventful five days which feels perhaps a little bit more like five years for a lot of people, there are still questions about what's going to happen in the next two weeks or so.

The vice president has promised to choose her running mate, her VP, in that window. Who do you think should be on the ticket with her?

REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Well, you know, I think it's almost a travesty of riches. We have the strongest Democratic bench that I've seen in my lifetime. So there are a lot of great choices out there, and I know the vice president, she has so far run such an incredible campaign.

I mean, taking over in such a quick time raising so much money, but even more importantly, getting so much support out, having the zooms that are as some of the -- some of my kids are saying, breaking the Zoom because she is getting so many people on board to come forward and support her.

So the excitement on the ground is palpable and I can't wait to see who she picks because I know this ticket is going to be fantastic.

HILL: So you're not pulling for say, a fellow sailor?

(LAUGHTER)

SHERRILL: I -- you know there's -- there's a great fellow sailor in the race originally from West Orange, New Jersey, who would be a fantastic pick, but there are other ones as well. So I'm really excited to see her pick.

HILL: All right, so we're watching that.

You know, you mentioned the momentum, too, I'm just curious as you look at that momentum, 100 days is a lot time, a lot can happen. Certainly in five days as we just saw this week. Do you have any concerns about maintaining that momentum?

SHERRILL: You know, I will tell you, it doesn't feel like a long time to get this going to make sure that we get everyone out the canvassers out there, the phone bankers, the fundraisers, doing everything we need to do to put on the strongest possible campaign to defeat Donald Trump, it feels like we are going to be sprinting to the finish, but I have to tell you, I think that's great because the momentum, excitement will only build and we have seen in a very short time, Kamala has closed the gap with the former President Trump.

I think pretty soon, we'll see her take the lead. We're certainly seeing some great results in our swing states, our battleground states. She is a fantastic candidate and I think this is going to be a great race.

I am, like I said, so incredibly excited. I think, too, what we've seen now is in hindsight I think unfortunately for him, Trump has picked a pretty poor running mate, not really a ticket that is set to meet the moment. And I think we've seen some real problems there as well.

HILL: Speaking of his running mate, J.D. Vance, looking to clarify some of his comments that had resurfaced about Democrats who don't have children. What he says that implies about the party and its stake in the future.

Take a listen to what he had to say earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This is not about criticizing people who for various reasons didn't have kids. This is about criticizing the Democratic Party for becoming anti-family and anti-child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So he says his comments were misunderstood. That it's about the party, and that your party is anti-family and anti-child.

SHERRILL: You know, I have not seen the GOP come out with a plan for the child tax credit. I've not seen their plan to make sure that every kid has opportunity and access to great education. In fact, what I have seen is their plan to get rid of Head Start, their plan to get rid of the Department of Education. I mean, it's just really breathtaking to see the attacks on children that are being lobbed by the GOP right now with Project 2025.

And I think to see somebody like J.D. Vance who has said there -- you know, there needs to be a federal solution to women traveling for abortions, shocking really shocking and to think that there might be some federal ban on my ability to travel. He is so far out of step with people across this country. And I think that is just going to highlight the flaws, the real flaws in Trump's presidential campaign.

[16:10:01]

HILL: Republicans on the hill are pressing for investigations over the president's health and whether the White House has actually been transparent. Specifically, those -- those around him, including the vice president. And do you have concerns at this point that information may have been withheld?

SHERRILL: You know, I have not seen that and the concerns I think I do have now, now that we have Kamala Harris at the top of the ticket, I've really been concerned about president Trump, the rambling speech he gave at the RNC, that almost incoherent speech about Hannibal Lecter and that the lessons to be learned from him.

I think there are some real concerns there and I think if I want to see transparency, I would really like to see some quality medical records of the Trumps and to see what kind of work up his hat and what kind of shape he's in right now.

HILL: Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey, thank you.

SHERRILL: Thanks so much.

HILL: Well, just hours ago, a new statement from the doctor who treated Donald Trump after this month's assassination attempt. Plus, how election officials in 48 states maybe undercutting GOP threats to legally challenge the new campaign of Kamala Harris.

And new today, Trump's VP pick, Senator J.D. Vance, looking to explain what he really meant by that childless cat ladies comment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:18]

HILL: Continuing with our 2024 lead and the big question from South Florida this afternoon. Did Donald Trump smooth over his relationship with the Israeli prime minister? You may recall Trump was not too happy with Netanyahu when he congratulated Biden on winning the 2020 election.

CNN's Kristen Holmes is in West Palm Beach, Florida.

So what more do we know? What came out of this meeting with Donald Trump and Benjamin Netanyahu at Mar-a-Lago?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, if you asked Donald Trump, which I did when I went over there for just a brief second what are if this mood over the relationship, he basically said, what do you mean? Everything has been great.

I asked specifically what the relationship would look like if they spoke about what it would be like when Donald Trump or if Donald Trump were to secure the presidency in the fall and he said, we don't need to talk about that because everything has been great.

So that kind of swept under the rug there and I will say the men were interacting as though they had been friends for a long time. Obviously, they were close in the White House as you said. But had that falling out over Netanyahu congratulating Joe Biden on winning the election.

But the other thing that I asked about was these remarks that were made by Kamala Harris. I know that you played them with MJ earlier. Netanyahu saying he hopes they didn't hurt the ceasefire conversations and then on top of that, Donald Trump really using the opportunity to go after Kamala Harris unsurprising, of course now, his likely opponent, but saying that she was a California liberal and saying that these remarks were insulting to not only Israel, but to Jews everywhere.

Now, one other thing I want to point out here is that they appear to still be meeting. This has been much longer than we had originally no anticipated. We have not seen Netanyahu's motorcade departing from Mar-a-Lago. We did get a readout of the meeting from the campaign, which said probably exactly what you would imagine, which was that Bibi, Bibi -- Prime Minister Netanyahu came in and thanked Donald Trump for everything he did while he was in office and Donald Trump said that he stood by Israel fully.

HILL: So as all of this is going on, Kristen, I also want to ask you about former White House physician, now Republican Congressman Ronny Jackson actually pushing back today over questions about whether Trump was shot in the ear during the assassination attempt.

What more -- what more can you tell me about that?

HOLMES: So, Erica, I mean, just to give a little some context, he was Donald Trump, but also Barack Obama's White House physician. And he was very close to Donald Trump. And in fact now he is one of his staunchest allies. And since Donald Trump was shot in that assassination attempt, there has -- Ronny Jackson has been by his side almost nonstop. He issued a medical statement about him. Obviously, he is not currently his doctor.

But it's not surprising that Ronny Jackson is coming to a full throated defense of Donald Trump. Here is what he said in a statement. He said: FBI Director Christopher Wray suggested it could be a bullet, shrapnel or glass. There is absolutely no evidence. It was anything other than a bullet. Director Wray is wrong and inappropriate to suggest anything else.

Of course, Christopher Wray has said that they believed it was either a bullet or some shrapnel that had hit his ear, but this was an ongoing investigation.

And, Erica, I will note that Donald Trump himself has now pushed back on that. It clearly this got underneath his skin and all of his allies' skin. A lot of pushback saying these are all conspiracy theories, again, reiterating the Donald Trump himself said that he was hit by a bullet and that's what the hospital records show.

But of course, Erica, no one has seen those hospital records. In the same statement, Ronny Jackson says he has seen the hospital records, but outside of that, none of us have seen them. So that's where some of those questions had come into play.

But definitively, Donald Trump has said it was a bullet that grazed his ear.

HILL: Kristen Holmes, appreciate the reporting as always. Thank you.

House Speaker Mike Johnson, warning of potential legal challenges for Democrats for switching their presidential candidate from Joe Biden to Kamala Harris. Here's what Johnson told CNN's Manu Raju on Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: They are violating democratic principles. And I think that's a real problem and I think there'll be a lot said about that in the days ahead.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So you expect lawsuits plenty?

JOHNSON: Well, look, if it violates the rules some of these states I expect that there will be litigation over that, so we'll see how it develops.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So, CNN dug into those state rules and in an exclusive survey election authorities, at least 48 states say there are no obstacles that would prevent Vice President Harris from appearing on their states election ballot.

I want to bring in now my colleague, Paula Reid.

So, Paula, in terms of this survey that you did, what more did you find in your reporting? What did the states tell you?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Erica, after the speaker made those comments signaling there could be forthcoming litigation, we reached out to 50 states, 48 replied all saying there'll be no issue with Vice President Harris potentially appearing on their ballot.

Now, the two that did not respond, Florida and Montana, we did an analysis or their rules and regulations,, and it looks like there, there'll be no issue either.

[16:20:05]

Let me give you a sample of what some of the states said when we ask them this. For example, Georgia said, quote, Biden dropping out will not impact Georgia ballots. Kentucky said, no issue. West Virginia, the candidate that will appear on West Virginia ballot in November will be the candidate that is nominated by the DNC. Also in Alabama, they told us that the parties have until August 23rd to tell the state who should appear on the ballot.

Now, we've reached out to the speaker's office to ask for clarification about exactly what he meant when he said there could be the legal impediments. They did not respond.

HILL: Paula Reid, appreciate it as always. Thank you so much. Well, today, Senator J.D. Vance was asked to explain that childless

cat ladies comment that sparked so much outrage. Hear what the VP pick says he meant by it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:25:20]

HILL: In our world lead, coordinated attacks, arson, and quote, sabotage on France's railway system early today, attackers across several cities damaging critical train cables in the middle of the night, French authorities say nearly 1 million travelers could be impacted throughout the weekend, which of course coincides with this start of the Paris Olympics.

As of now, no group has claimed responsibility for the attacks. Crews are working to repair the damage. But as the Olympics kick off, of course, this was casting a shadow over today, the opening ceremony, which is a mix of exciting fanfare. You see there basketball legend LeBron James and tennis great Coco Gauff, they are the official team USA flag-bearers but there is already some scandal for these summer games.

Canada's women's soccer coach suspended over accusations she was spying on another team with a drone. And, of course, there are extensive security preparations.

CNN's Fred Pleitgen reporting now on the heightened security for Israeli athletes in particular, as painful memories of 1972 Munich Olympics resurface.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): As Israeli athletes arrived in France, making their way to the Olympic Village under heavy French police protection, protests against Israel's participation the 2024 games had already erupted in Paris. France has government acknowledging the threat level for Israeli athletes is extremely high.

I proposed to the president of the republic that the Israeli delegation be fully protected by the French police 24 hours a day, the interior minister said.

Security forces are on high alert. French and international police patrolling the area around the Olympics, trying to prevent mistakes made in the past.

We took this decision because the Israeli athletes and we've known this since the Munich Games, of course, but more recently again, are particularly targeted by attacks.

Munich, West Germany at the Summer Games, 1972, Palestinians from a militant group named Black September stormed the dormitory housing the Israeli team. They immediately shoot and kill two athletes and take nine more team members hostage. The games continue as the hostage crisis drags on, the gunman often seen on the balcony of the Olympic dormitory.

German police finally, attempt and completely botch a rescue mission, leaving all of the Israeli hostages, a German cop, and five of the terrorists dead.

Esther Roth-Shahamorov was on Israel's 1972 track and field team.

ESTHER ROTH-SHAHAMOROV, FORMER ISRAELI TRACK AND FIELD ATHLETE (through translator): I was sitting in the plane transporting the coffins of my coach and comrades I had trained with. They returned with you in coffins. That was the thing I couldn't understand. And I kept thinking, what's going on here.

REPORTER: At this moment, eight or nine athletes of the Israeli team are being held prisoner.

REPORTER: These guerillas are called Black September.

PLEITGEN: Israel's intelligence service, Mossad, soon launched a campaign of assassinations targeting those connected to the Munich massacre, depicted in the 2005 Steven Spielberg film, "Munich", which also depicts the botched German rescue attempt.

And while 1972 isn't 2024, the trauma remains and so do the lessons learned.

Israel sports minister recently met with the country's domestic security service, Shin Bet.

Since October 7 of last year, when Hamas attacked Israel, killing more than 1,100 people and taking roughly 250 others hostage, Israel has launched a punishing military campaign in Gaza, killing many Hamas fighters, but also scores of civilians.

Israeli athletes say they're well aware of the anger they face.

INBAR LANIR, ISRAELI OLYMPIC JUDOKA: It's something that we're used to. And I'm feeling really safe. My part is to connect with everyone by sports.

PLEITGEN: French authorities say they will do their part to try and make sure violence doesn't disrupt the games that are supposed to be above politics.

Fred Pleitgen, CNN, Berlin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HILL: And our thanks again to Fred Pleitgen for that report.

[16:30:01]

HILL: Just ahead here, CNN's KFILE digging up some past comments by Vice President Kamala Harris related to defund the police. Where she stood on that and what her campaign says about those remarks now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: Continuing with our 2024 lead now. The Trump campaign is already attacking Kamala Harris over liberal positions she embraced during the 2020 presidential primary.

KFILE's Andrew Kaczynski joins getting me now with some of those comments that could make her vulnerable to criticism.

So what did you find me?

ANDREW KACZYNSKI, CNN INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: That's right. In the summer of 2020, when there were protests across the country after a police officer murdered George Floyd, many progressives and liberals were talking about defunding police departments nationwide.

[16:35:11]

One local radio show asked then-Senator Kamala Harris where she stood on the "defund the police" movement. Take a listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THEN-SEN. KAMALA HARRIS (D-CA): Defund the police, the issue behind it is that we need to re-imagine how we are creating safety and when you have many cities that have one-third of their entire city budget focused on policing, we know that is not the smart way and the best way or the right way to achieve safety.

This whole movement is about rightly saying we need to take a look at these budgets and figure out whether it reflects the right priorities.

For too long, the status quo thinking has been, you get more safety by putting more cops on the street. Well, that's wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KACZYNSKI: Now, in another interview that same week, Harris praised Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti for removing $150 million from the police budget and investing that money in social services. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIS: That's a legitimate conversation and it requires a really critical evaluation. I applaud Eric Garcetti for doing what he's done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KACZYNSKI: Now, some important context here is that polling showed that reducing police budgets was never really popular even in 2020. A pew research poll found that year that just 25 percent of adults supported reducing police budgets that year, and by 2021, that support had decreased to just 15 percent.

But it is also important to note that the Biden administration, which, of course, included Vice President Harris, passed the American Rescue Plan and that did put billions of dollars to cities to boost their budget for local police.

Still as Harris runs, trying to use that history as a prosecutor, Republicans are going to use some of this to try to portray her as soft on crime.

HILL: So to that point, how is the Harris campaign responding?

KACZYNSKI: Right. So after Harris was selected by Joe Biden to be VP, we really did not see her mentioning defund the police, the defund the police movement at all. That campaign actually clarified to say that she did not support defunding the police. They said it was a lie to suggest that she did.

Now, we reached out to the Harris campaign to ask about all of this, and here's what they told CNN. They said whether as a district attorney, attorney general, senator, or Vice President Kamala Harris has led the way to keep our community safe, take on violent crime, and helped lead the nation to historic drop in violent crime to a 50 year low.

HILL: Andrew Kaczynski, appreciate it. Thank you.

Let's jump in now with our panel.

Nayyera, when you look at these comments, right, this idea of defund the police and even just that as a slogan, even if the vice president at the time was not fully saying you should defund the police. She was talking about, maybe we should look at the way things are done, that statement and that sentiment is going away. How damaging has it been for Democrats?

NAYYERA HAQ, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF CABINET AFFAIRS, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Well, the defund the police was not a popular slogan and frankly not embraced by the majority of Democrats and certainly not the ones who have to navigate districts that are big cities or districts where there are a mix of voters.

And so it became a deeply left title that got put onto Democrats by some really great messaging and campaign efforts. And in fact, you know, Mayor Eric Adams of New York City was elected as a police officer and as somebody who talked about being tough on crime. That's going to be a challenge, right, is getting out of the rhetoric that has developed over time and getting back to what are the policy decisions that have actually been made and what are the conversations that America still needs to have.

Clearly, the conversation over Black Lives Matter over racism, over sexism is now coming back, given Kamala Harris and her identity. And it's a conversation this country did not resolve.

HILL: We'll see if the conversation is taken up as we move into this final hundred days of the campaign.

David, look, we are seeing these comments from the past pop up for both candidates. This is nothing new in a campaign season. I want to get your take on J.D. Vance earlier today was clarifying, defending what he said, some past comments about people who don't have kids.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Becoming a father, becoming a mother, I really do think it changes your perspective in a pretty profound way, but this is not about criticizing people who, for various reasons, didn't have kids. This is about criticizing the Democratic Party for becoming anti-family and anti-child.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So he's saying about the party, what he sees as it being anti- family, anti-child. I agree as a parent, it does change you.

But the way he was laying it out, it made it a lot for good and bad. He made it sound as if you can't be an effective legislator or lawmaker in a position of power if you don't have kids. Is that an effective message?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah. So, you know, listen, if you're explaining a position, we all know this, if you're explaining, you're losing, right?

[16:40:03]

So, but if you listen to the whole -- if you listen to the whole interview with Megyn Kelly, it's pretty enlightening and I think if people take the time which nobody does in politics anymore, unfortunately, people would take the time to listen the whole thing --

HILL: I watched the whole thing this afternoon, my friend.

URBAN: No, no, Erica, listen, I'm not saying you. I'm saying people -- our viewers, I'd encourage you to go -- go -- go listen to it, right? And that's the problem in politics. Everyone gets caught in these gotcha moments, right? Where you say one thing, 23 years ago when it comes back and bites you and it's running a different context.

Look, I think that, of course, you can be an effective legislator if you don't have children, gives you a different perspective. Kids, as you said, Erica, give you a different perspective, whether you adopt kids, whether you have them, whether raising adopted child, whether you are blended marriage -- look, kids are blessing in life and everybody I think agrees to that and they change how you look at the future and worry about the future.

And I think what J.D. Vance is talking about is some extreme positions in the Democratic Party, on the environmental front and others, they say, look, maybe a world's not -- we shouldn't have kids. The world is not fit for children. We shouldn't have children in the future.

The American population growth is declining rapidly. We have less and less children each year, and I think if you listen to the whole interview, go back and led to it and you have -- I don't think what he was saying was taken accurately are fairly. But again, as we all know, if you're explaining, you're losing.

HILL: If you're explaining, you're losing.

It's interesting as you point out, you have something you said, whether three minutes ago or 30 years ago, as it comes back, Tia, I think it raises an important question in terms of where we stand in 2024 and whether a candidate can actually change their position on anything. Can they evolve in where they stand? How to voters take that, Tia?

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION: Well, I think there's a difference between evolving and kind of having complete 180s and also if the evolving -- for J.D. Vance, the evolving has been perceived as kind of politically expedient. So I think that's why some of his -- the different ways he frames his politics is I think something that people have found problematic.

Again, its not just I -- particularly about President Trump. He seemed to have very clear and very negative viewpoints about President Trump before he decided to seek elected office, and that is the part of his evolution on Trump coincided with him becoming this national political figure.

So it's not that he can't evolve. We've seen politicians evolve particularly on things like LGBTQ rights, for example. That's been evolving. Quite frankly, a lot of conservatives have evolved on how they approach abortion, for example, and they haven't necessarily been told you know, this evolution is not sincere, but for J.D. Vance, it's because he was so strong in one way and again, its coming across as political expedient. This what he calls an evolution on Trump particularly, just one person.

HILL: There is a swirl of speculation I think to put it mildly around Harris's pick for her eventual running mate. You know, everyone from Arizona Senator Mark Kelly, North Carolina Governor Roy Cooper. Nayyera, how much do you think this pick matters? I would say it matters in perhaps maintaining momentum over the next couple of weeks, but how much do you think the ultimate pick of her running mate is going to matter to voters.

HAQ: Oh, I think it makes for that combination of what looks like it brings together not only the Democratic Party and its various elements, but also what looks like what the country looks like today.

And that's, you know, the joke about how it has to be a boring white man and nobody calls that the DEI pick. But in many ways of vice presidential pick, even Barack Obama picking Joe Biden at the time, your VP is supposed to round out what you as the top candidate may not bring to the table and unfortunately doesn't seem like Donald Trump picks somebody very different from him. I think we could welcome some more diversity from the Democratic side of the ticket.

HILL: David, how do you think Donald Trump is feeling? I mean, there's a whole lot of speculation, right? But how is he feeling at this point do you think about J.D. Vance as his pick on the ticket and the impact he's had?

URBAN: Listen, so he's had a tough news cycle, but I look, I think the former president is pleased with J.D. Vance. I think he's going to get out and my former state of Pennsylvania, home state, and talk to working class people and an ask people -- how many people in this room have had somebody affected by substance abuse, raise your hand, I have.

How many people who have worked three jobs and gone to bet hungry at night? I have.

How many people were unsure about their future and so they enlisted in the military to give themselves a more positive future? I have.

I think he's going to be able to do those things very effectively, and connect with people in those really important states of Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and others, and a lot of blue-collar all our communities across America.

Listen, we've talked about evolution, J.D. Vance said, I was wrong. I blew it on Trump.

[16:45:01]

I totally got them wrong. I thought it was a terrible guy. I evolved. He's -- I think he's explained away it as best he can. I think people accept that.

What I'd like to hear is going to -- what I would like to hear the evolution of is the vice president on her position on fracking in Pennsylvania. Governor Josh Shapiro is a friend of mine. Maybe I shouldn't say that, maybe that doomed his chances for being the VP, but he's a very effective legislature, a good guy and I don't know how he's going to run as vice president in a state where fracking is really big when the person at the top of the ticket says she's committed to banning it.

HILL: You know, it'd be a great place to have that discussion debate. In a debate, you could bring that up.

Tia, though, there's now a debate over debates. Thank you for the transition, David Urban.

Donald Trump now -- I don't know where he stands. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FOX NEWS REPORTER: If Kamala Harris does end up being the Democrats' nominee, will you commit to debating her at least one time?

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Oh, yes, absolutely. I'd want to. I think it's important. I would be willing to do more than one debate actually. Well, I

haven't agreed to anything. I agreed to a debate with Joe Biden, but I want to debate her and she'll be no different because they have the same policies.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

HILL: So, he's in but then he's not in. We're putting some caveats in.

Tia, at this point, look, the debate was agreed upon for September 10, I believe, on ABC. Is there a sense that it's going to go forward?

MITCHELL: I think until some of the more wishy-washy statements from former President Trump lately, yes, there was the expectation it will go forward, perhaps not on ABC. Trump had made some statements saying he would like Fox News to host it.

I think it -- I think it will not be a good look for President Trump if he could continues to be perceived as moving the goalposts and if he does not debate Vice President Harris. But it's hard to guess where Trump will ultimately land.

I think he's constantly making a political calculations. He made a calculation that debating his primary opponent its, wasn't a good thing to do, so he didn't do it. He made the calculation that it was good to debate Biden, so he did. Now, he's making calculations about Harris.

(CROSSTALK)

URBAN: So, let's get back on CNN, let's get back on CNN, Erica, what pretty good the first time for Trump, I'll work on them.

HILL: Okay. You do that and you report back, David Urban. We're counting on you.

Guys, thank you all for being here this afternoon. Great to see all of you. Enjoy the weekend.

We are learning some new information at this hour about the shocking arrest of two suspected Mexican drug lords captured in the United States, including how El Chapo's son actually helped investigators in the capture.

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[16:51:39]

HILL: In our national lead, a pretty wild story of crime fighting and apparently betrayal. Two of Mexico's most notorious drug lords are in U.S. custody today. They're allegedly responsible for sending a flood of illegal drugs into the U.S. We're talking about cocaine, heroin, methamphetamine, and especially fentanyl.

But get this U.S. official says one of the captured men actually helped with the operation. CNN's Polo Sandoval has been following this story for us.

So we had heard at one point there was some help on the inside, didn't realize it was one of the two men who were arrested.

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There was actually on the plane that was greeted by federal authorities, Erica, and you said it best, betrayal. That is the prevailing theme in this case here.

Oftentimes these drug lords, Erica, they have to make that decision. Do they run from authorities and get hunter? The down by them or do they cooperate with them. And this case, based on multiple sources, it seems that it was the latter.

According to a law enforcement official that's been briefed on the investigation and the takedown from yesterday afternoon, it seems that one of the sons of Joaquin El Chapo Guzman, a 38-year-old by the name of Joaquin Guzman Lopez, who again was on that flight, this is him, reportedly worked with U.S. authorities and provided them with that inside help to lead to lead to the arrest of this massive narco boss, El Mayo Zambadia, a man who had been on the run for decades from authorities here.

According to what we've heard from federal sources, they tell us that Mayo was led to believe that he would be flying out to see a property to purchase a plane. I heard from Mexican officials today, actually left from Mexico yesterday morning. However, it landed near El Paso. These are some pictures from the scene in the air perhaps that they were flying in and it was greeted by U.S. authorities that Mayo was led to believe that he would be flying out to a property and definitely did not expect U.S. authorities to be greeting that flight.

He's in custody. He has entered a plea of not guilty. Joaquin Guzman Lopez is the 38-year-old son of Chapo. It is still unclear at least sources have not confirmed any sort of deal that they may or may not have actually worked out with them. And like Mayo, he too is accused and multiple indictments in various jurisdictions, Erica, accusing him. And also Mayo of actually leading this organization responsible for massive amounts of narcotics that are made their way to the U.S. in the last -- since the '80s.

HILL: In terms of those massive amounts of narcotics, is there any sense of these arrests will have an impact on what's still coming across the border?

SANDOVAL: I can tell you this, Erica. This will absolutely not lead to the end of the Sinaloa cartel. Over the last several decades, we've seen that criminal enterprise really sort of splinter out into other factions and we've seen these kinds of operations, manufacturing these drugs again, most recently, fentanyl making it here to the U.S. and this leaves behind a massive void.

However, Mayo was definitely sort of the older generation of narco boss, the younger generations, including the Chapitos, which many of them are the sons of Guzman, they are ruthless. So the concern is we could see more bloodshed south of the border. HILL: All right. CNN's Polo Sandoval, appreciate it. Thank you.

SANDOVAL: Thank you.

HILL: Just ahead here, the new defense from Justin Timberlake's legal team as they dispute his DWI arrest last month on Long Island.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:39]

HILL: In our national lead, check out this video of a fire tornado. This a strong winds continue to fuel the northern California Park Fire. More than 164,000 acres now burned. That covers an area larger than the city of Atlanta. The flames right now at zero percent containment, and this fire showed no signs of slowing down.

Officials say was started by a burning car pushed into a gully and they made an arrest over that.

Justin Timberlake's attorney at a hearing today now says the pop star was not intoxicated when he was arrested last month for DWI. His attorney says police actually made a number of significant errors. According to police, Timberlake failed to stop at a stop sign and also failed to stay in his lane. Timberlake told officers he had had one martini that night and followed his friends home.

Coming up Sunday on "STATE OF THE UNION", Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren, and Republican Senator Tom Cotton, Minnesota Governor Tim Walz, will also join that Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

Stay tuned. The news continues on CNN. Pamela Brown in next for Wolf Blitzer in "THE SITUATION ROOM".