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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Markets Sink Over Weaker-Than-Expected Jobs Report; Trump Campaign Struggles As Harris Energizes Democrats; WSJ: Evan's Mother "Worked In The Shadows" To Secure Release; Urgent Warning To Protect Democracy From Authoritarianism; U.S. Secret Service: "We Will Earn Back Your Trust". Aired 4-5p ET

Aired August 02, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:13]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Phil Mattingly, in for Jake Tapper.

We are just moments away from the closing bell on Wall Street on what's turned out to be a significant day for economic news. So far, the markets have taken to the bell right there at the slide, a reaction to two big developments in the last two days, the Fed's decision yesterday to hold their rates and a two decade high, and today's new jobs report that showed only 114,000 jobs were added last month.

It's all underscoring fears the job market is slowing too quickly and could trigger a recession.

A recession that, of course, would have major implications on the presidential race, the economy, the top issue for voters in the presidential election and in this election, while there's now officially a presumptive Democratic nominee. In just a few hours ago, the Democratic National Committee said Kamala Harris had earned enough delegate votes to seal the deal.

(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are excited about the future, but we also know that we got lot of work to get there and we have a lot of work to do. It's good work. We like hard work. I am honored to be the presumptive Democratic nominee for president of the United States.

(END AUDIO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Now this all comes at a pivotal moment for the Harris campaign as the vice president is set to meet with her top vice presidential contenders this weekend, and announce her running mate, and just the coming days. We'll have all the latest reporting and analysis cover for you over the course of the next two hours.

But we begin with CNN's Julia Chatterley, who is closely watching what has been a rough day in the markets.

Julia, what are we seeing right now?

JULIA CHATTERLEY, CNN INTERNATIONAL HOST: I think you said it and its red across the board. Phil, good to see you. It's been an ugly day. It's been a pretty ugly week, quite frankly.

But context matters, too. It's still a great year if you own stocks. We've got us a triple whammy effect going on here. You've got one, some of the big A.I. tech stocks have lost ground this week, which has hurt this.

The second thing its summertime, remember, lots of investors, unlike other, on the beaches. So that makes things choppy.

And then as you pointed out, the third thing is economic data and those jobs numbers today, which has raised all sorts of fears of a broader economic slowdown. And more pressure on the Federal Reserve to cut rates, which as you pointed out, they didn't do yesterday.

Look, I think we need to take a pause. No one is talking about some kind of imminent recession here. I think what was confirmed by this data is that you can pretty much guarantee there will be a rate cut in September.

Yes. This was a weaker than expected jobs report. We've seen the jobs market weakening now for a number of months but we did add jobs, net overall. And I think that's important.

We also saw the unemployment rate rise, which is a worrisome trend too. But again, its because as well that more people are entering the jobs market. You've just got to make sure that you've got enough jobs available for them to go to. And that's why a lot of people looking around today and saying, look, the Fed needs to ease rates back. They need to give room to the economy to breathe.

Now, I'll be the first person to say that before this jobs number we saw weakness in the manufacturing sector, consumers, all of us, we're spending less. Starbucks is saying that McDonalds is saying that. And, of course, I think we're all arguing endlessly, the price has remained too high.

But growth is still solid, Phil, and three weeks ago, stock markets were at record highs. So the key really for the Federal Reserve is what do you do now to try and maintain it and keep jobs growing. And that is cutting rates.

You've got JPMorgan today, Citi saying, were going to see interest rates come down by around a percentage point, if not more this year. Some are saying we could see an entire market cut, that will cause panic.

My message as a true Brit is keep calm, carry on. Don't panic about imminent recession and rates will come down in September.

MATTINGLY: Look, I respect your nationality, but we have to panic at all time, isn't that kind of the model here on some level? No, it's very, very good advice and just how quickly people are

looking at what happened yesterday at the Federal Reserve and saying, man, maybe they should've cut yesterday.

We'll obviously have to keep watching in the months ahead.

I want get straight to the panel and I want to start with CNN's Kayla Tausche.

Kayla, I got to be honest. As a former CNBC person, a former Bloomberg person, and I want to nerd out about the A.I. stuff and the Nasdaq correction right now but --

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: That sound you just heard with people putting us on mute, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Exactly. We're going to bring him back with this. You've got new reporting on the vice president and the economy. And it's been one of the big questions, not just will she change course from where the Biden team has been, but also who's around her? Who's making decisions in this moment?

TAUSCHE: Well, first, I just got off the phone when I was coming to set with some people inside the White House about how they're thinking about this jobs report and they're saying, you can't draw a trend from one report. They point back to April and say, said we have 108,000 jobs created in April, no one was calling the recession alarm back then, and they said its too early to say exactly what that means for the fall.

And, of course, they will not touch anything about the Federal Reserve with a ten foot pole because of the independence of the central bank. That being said, it does raise a lot of questions about where Vice President Harris stands and how this is going to inform her economic agenda.

[16:05:03]

I spoke to friends of hers, longtime colleagues of hers about exactly where her North Star in the economy is, and they said she's pro- business. She's centrist. She's pragmatic.

That was a word that came up in many conversations. But that she really cares about working families, small business, and underserved communities, that she's going to use the Biden budget, the blueprint that was put out earlier this year, sort of a starting point and pull a handful of policies from there to build her economic agenda.

She's just in the early stages. She's just beginning to staff up on the policy side. We really haven't seen that much yet and so there's a tendency on one hand to say, here are all the things that I can do for you if I'm elected.

But on the other hand, if you are running on continuing the administration in the words of one person, who's advising her, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Just stay the course and don't say anything or over-promise and potentially under-deliver, or do anything that's seen as too novel, too new, too different.

MATTINGLY: You know, David, to that point, we've all heard from Biden administration officials for three-and-a-half years that people like the things that we've done, they just don't necessarily understand them. When you pull them in isolation, they liked them a lot.

This has not been a winning issue for the former Biden campaign or this White House up to this point. Can Harris really do that, stay the course? This is what we've done, and people just need to understand.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Yeah, and that's not currently winning issue of Kamala Harris in the early polling either on the issue of the economy, this is still a Trump advantage category, and it is still the top issue for voters. So this clearly will be a dominant focus.

You know, remember, you all remember, Build Back Better. I don't know if you remember that, but that was --

MATTINGLY: Rest in peace.

CHALIAN: But all of those programs that actually didn't make it through Congress and that deal, Kamala Harris was behind a lot of them inside the administration. And I think if you want to look to some of the policy pieces that you're going to hear from her on the campaign trail, look to what didn't get done when Joe Manchin sort of scuttled that. And during the Biden years and that'll get left on the cutting room floor, she's going to try to pick some of those pieces back up, and put that into her overall economic proposal.

MATTINGLY: That's really interesting point because the proposals that were scrapped, things like universal pre-K, I think more expansive paid family leave, obviously, the child tax credit wasn't made permanent over time.

To you, Ashley, on that point, on the policy side of things, it has been such a good few weeks for Democrats.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

MATTINGLY: I think even Republicans would grudgingly acknowledge that fact. Is that the important thing here? Does she need to be rolling out agenda items? Does she need to be talking about policy or you just ride this wave on some level?

ALLISON: I think it's a little bit of both. I think you ride the wave as long as the energy is there, don't turn off the faucet and it might start to dissipate and it will week or two just because that's how human nature works.

But I think that there's an opportunity here for the vice president to introduce her platform, who she is going to be as the president United States. Yes, she is Joe Biden's vice president, but she does not dictate -- she's not the decider at the end of the day. She is his support. She is his number two. So talk to the American public, talked to her, you them about the future, the vision, what it looks like to try and build an economy with A.I. being -- taking away the job my hometown, where will we go through the term pike, its all computers now, what happened to a good term pike job in Youngstown, Ohio, talk to them about how they're going to -- she's going to protect the labor unions and make sure that if you go on strike, you have collective bargaining.

Talk to women, which is such an important constituency in this election about how you want, we want you to be able to stay in the workplace, but also get paid family leave.

So, there is an opportunity. Today is not a great jobs report, but I think you can use this as an opportunity to say, and this is why I'm going to have this agenda to move America forward.

MATTINGLY: You know, Bryan, the vice president, obviously becoming the presumptive nominee today, has a pretty big decision that's hanging over her right now. She's going to proceed with the meetings over the course of this weekend.

I'm interested how are Republicans looking at that selection right now? Is there somebody -- you know, Republicans are particularly nervous about, or would really rather her not pick?

BRYAN LANZA, FORMER DEPUTY COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP-PENCE CAMPAIGN: Well, listen, first of all, thank you for having me. I think our challenge would be Shapiro, Governor Shapiro. I mean, he carries -- he carries Pennsylvania. That's a big state. We need that to win.

It would be a huge loss for us, we invest a lot of resources. We have offices all over the -- all over the state. And so that would, you know, it's not a slam dunk. They still have to -- you know, VPs at the end of the day don't have that big of an impact, but it will garner some noise for probably at about a week, and then the sugar-high of all these things come back together, and it's -- it is the economy as we discussed, we saw the unemployment numbers creep up now for I think the fourth month in a row.

They still haven't resolved the inflation issue. We'll know where the inflation rate is in mid-August, and that will determine whether there's going a rate cut. It's not going to be anything in between.

And until they solve this inflation issue, you know, doubling down on those policies that lead to use the wiping out of the working class, wiping out of the middle-class with respect to resources, there's -- it's going to be a tough sell for them.

MATTINGLY: You know, Kayla, I think you and others have reported Jamie Gangel as well, our colleague, that the vice president will meet over the weekend with the top finalists to join that Democratic ticket, likely explains why they all canceled their weekend plans.

[16:10:06]

I did as well to try and throw my name into the running, see what would happen. Not in a political sense, filling up an interesting thing to do this weekend.

TAUSCHE: I've learned in the past four weeks not to make weekend plans?

MATTINGLY: Yes. Also, yes, we haven't had a weekend for about a month.

ALLISON: I feel like I know because I didn't have any weekend plan.

MATTINGLY: I don't know that any of them did, did just say you're canceling on any way, and all of a sudden, you're in the game. But what's your sense of what Harris is looking for in these interviews?

TAUSCHE: Well, there are a few criteria that she's looking for. I mean, of course, there has been an exhaustive vetting process. They're looking for a good complement to her, someone who could not only be a good governing partner, but also a person who can bring attributes that maybe she is a politician doesn't necessarily have.

They're also looking for someone who is squeaky clean, a close friend of hers told me no one wants a John Edwards-like situation that could have been avoided if you just read that last piece the paper.

But they're also looking for someone who can control the map as you're just mentioning. I mean, Pennsylvania in the words of one person close to the campaign, is a tipping point. And so, it's a critical state, but so is Arizona. And while Kentucky might not necessarily be a critical state, they say will perhaps he could bring some of that -- bring some of that muster to Georgia, say, with the knowledge of the American South.

So they all bring certain attributes. But I think it's that. I think it's the governance. It's the record. Do they have any skeletons? And it's the map.

MATTINGLY: Can I say were going to dig into all this stuff at length over the course of the next couple of hours. But the vice president announced hire -- staff hires today, expanded the team, kept most of the team in place, kept the top leadership of the Biden campaign in place, but brought on David Plouffe, brought on Mitch Stewart, brought on Stephanie Cutter, expanded David Binder's role. It's like the Obama campaign all over again on some level.

What do you see is the impetus of this?

ALLISON: It's game time. She's now at the top of the ticket. This is not the Biden campaign, and more, this is the Harris campaign.

And so, I think she has done this well because she has kept folks on who have been on the team before, Julie Rodriguez, who was a former colleague of mine, is an excellent campaign manager as well as veterans like JOD, Jen O'Malley Dillon, Stephanie Cutter, the gang is back together, I will say, and it's exciting to see.

But I will also say that there is just this new invigoration of people who also want to work on the campaign. I get text all day long about submitting their resume to someone and I'm like -- I only have so much full, like, I can, you go to kamalaharris.com and you submit your resume the same way and most everyone else does.

I also think though that is because of the short runway of her campaign, you can't learn on the job right now. You have to know what you're doing. You have to know the different pieces but also in 2020, I didn't join the Biden campaign until June of 2020.

So this is a natural course of a campaign, in the summer, you ramp up. I hired probably 500 people in my department in July. The campaign, here we are.

Its business as usual, bringing these senior heavy hitters on, make sense, as long as they can all work together, and they pretty much know each other the pretty well and can.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, it's a super charged effort. We've got a lot more to get to. If you want a job, Ashley Allison's email, no, you don't -- don't email -- everybody stick around because, you know, money. It's a pretty important thing, and the Harris campaign announced it's fundraising numbers and they're huge.

But how do they keep that momentum up over the course of the next three months.

Plus, tears of joy as families are reunited. Thanks to that massive prisoner swap that included "The Wall Street Journal's" Evan Gershkovich, a close friend and current roommate, will join me live to share what it's been like to see Evan finally walked free.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:17:41]

MATTINGLY: Keeping with our 2024 lead, just two weeks ago, Republicans were feeling darn good about their odds in November. President Donald Trump, riding a huge wave of momentum, as he accepted the Republican nomination just days after surviving an assassination attempt.

But now that Vice President Kamala Harris is on the top of the Democratic ticket, that party definitely feeling the momentum shift.

Back with me to discuss is our panel.

And if you want an example of a momentum shift, David, these fundraising numbers are bonkers. Harris campaign, on it, bring it up -- brought in $310 million. The Trump campaign raised $138.7 million. Harris campaign is about $50 million more in the bank on hand at this point in time.

I want to be clear: the Trump campaign numbers are not bad at all. Those are good numbers. The Harris campaign numbers, wow.

CHALIAN: Well, I mean, they say $200 million of that $310 million was just in the seven-day period after Joe Biden got out of the race and endorsed Kamala Harris. So, two thirds of that was just in one week of the month and

obviously, it was a total dramatic shift in the race and we so the enthusiasm, not just in the fund-raising numbers, in the volunteer sign-ups, in the polling, you can see the enthusiasm on the Democratic side.

What I think people should just be aware of though that is not -- the momentum shift does not mean that Kamala Harris is in the drivers seat on this race right now. I mean, what that has done is snapped this race back two a margin of error race because Joe Biden was losing this race and the switch on the ticket and the switch and enthusiasm on the Democratic side has now brought Harris -- the Harris campaign sort of back into contention.

But that she says, and I know she says that for energizing purposes, but I think her analysis right. She's the underdog in this race, heading into this battle for 270 electoral votes.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, Democrats now feel like they have a chance. This by no means, means that Democrats, you laugh, but --

LANZA: There was panic, there was panic.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, there was panic, but I do want to ask, though, because, you know, to David's point, this is a moment where it is becoming erase. That is very clear. We don't know how this is going to end. There's a lot of time left.

Peggy Noonan had a -- her column at "The Wall Street Journal" this morning brought up something that I think a lot of Republicans have been saying quietly over the course last couple of days, which is: What is remarkable is how surprised the Trump campaign seems to have been by Ms. Harris. Why? Smart people understood Joe Biden would eventually have to step aside and she was his most likely replacement. Why have they responded as if as if shock?

[16:20:00]

Does Mr. Trump know that he's fighting for his life?

But one thing I'll quibble with is the last part, people were talking to the president and his team and said, he's not going to drop out because he's saying he's not going to drop out.

But that aside, it feels like the Trump campaigns on the back foot here.

LANZA: Listen, I feel the surprise was how quickly the party unified around Kamala Harris. I think we -- you know, from our standpoint, we know what the targets have been, we've seen the oppo file since 2019. It's not a new oppo file. Maybe have a lot more video errors through that, but we know where she's always stood.

What we were -- what I would say we were shocked over just how quickly the momentum shifted towards her. We actually expected some type of contentious convention. We still -- we still expected to get tough with them because at some point, the sugar high that that Kamala Harris and Democrats are feeling will end when you sort of dissect her record and how it married up against the issues that voters care about.

And that's a losing position. That's why at the end of the day, you have these numbers this week that a great, but we have to see what it looks like in a month from now or even two months from now, where it gets closer. And that's where we feel confident that we can define her regardless of how much money she has, she really is a San Francisco liberal, which is outside the mainstream of American politics.

MATTINGLY: And what's been interesting though, is it's been a very good two weeks for Democrats. And then they had this hostage swap yesterday, which regardless of your view on things Americans coming home is a good thing, I would think, people would think.

The former president was asked about it. This is what he said, take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: As usual, it was a win for Putin or any other country that deals with us. But we got somebody back, so I'm never going to be challenging that.

It wouldn't have happened with us. We would have gotten them back. We wouldn't have had to pay anything. We wouldn't have had to let some of the great killers of the world go, because that's what's happened as you know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Ashley, first off, the former president had multiple prisoner swaps while he was in office. They did not pay anything in this case. His White House also encouraged the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners for ceasefire talks in Afghanistan.

That aside, your reaction to how the former president is reacting to this?

ALLISON: I want to take bumpers, advice from Bambi, if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

In a moment, like last night I cried about the just seeing the unity of the families -- I thought about the hostages that are in Gaza right now and how those families, it brought up so much emotion. And so -- and I think it brought up a motion for people regardless of your party affiliation because families were reunited it and it was beautiful to watch and it was under President Biden's leadership.

And I think Donald Trump could have just simply said, I'm so glad their home and not need to take any shots or make it about him, but that's not who he is. And so I guess I should just give up hope on that. But it was I'm so thankful -- grateful for the president's leadership on that. I know there are other people that we still want to get home. But that was what being patriot looks like last night and Donald Trump couldn't match that moment.

MATTINGLY: You know, to that point, David, you can have disagreements with the policy decision-making in terms of pursuing prisoner swaps like this, there has been a shift in this administration. They have gotten results, but there are downsides to it as well, which many Republicans have pointed out.

What's been striking because the former president was so upfront about, I would get this done long for this happened, I would get this done. This would happen. Putin would just send Evan Gershkovich back and I'm wondering what -- how he's watching this right now?

CHALIAN: How Trump is watching right now?

MATTINGLY: Yeah.

CHALIAN: Well, I think -- I think he understood everything Ashley said, which is what kind of moment this is. And need -- as is his usual course of action, wanted sort of rain on that parade that Joe Biden was having. I mean, it was obviously a good day.

And you heard the president say he's not going to challenge the former presidents not going to challenge someone coming home. But then, of course, added in this rhetorical language to draw a contrast with Biden on a day where it was quite unifying to be an American, and it really did not need any kind of contrast. But, you know, he certainly put one on display.

MATTINGLLY: Yes. As he often does.

(CROSSTALK)

MATTINGLY: She's very good at that.

All right. Thank you, guys very much.

An urgent new warning today about the upcoming election, but it's not just from Democrats or just from Republicans. What this bipartisan group is calling for ahead of N November. That's next.

(COMMERICAL BREAK)

[16:28:47]

MATTINGLY: Back with our world lead. You are looking at that incredible scene from last night when American "Wall Street Journal" reporter Evan Gershkovich finally set foot back on American soil after 491 long days, unjustly detained in Russia, a huge hug for his mother, Ella Milman, who "The Wall Street Journal" reports worked in the shadows to advance the swap.

And that in-depth article with incredible new details, "Wall Street Journal" recounted how Ella directly pled with President Biden, with German chancellor Olaf Scholz, and even traveled to Moscow to be interviewed by Russia interrogator in the hopes of attesting to her son's character, despite warnings from the FBI that she could be arrested while doing so.

She also wrote weekly letters toto her son, quote, recounting the history of a family that had survived the Russian civil war, World War II, Soviet antisemitism, and now this is our term, she wrote.

Joining us now is Jeremy Berke, Evan's good friend and former roommate?

I can't imagine what you're feeling in this moment. But I was struck last night. And, you wrote an amazing piece last year I think at "The Wall Street Journal" that really kind of gave such a great personal insight into who Evan was as a person.

And what was hilarious about last night, maybe not the word I would have thought I would be using right now is when he walked off the plane, and there was like this weird pause because President Biden was talking to a family member and hadn't come over yet.

[16:30:08]

And you've tweeted about this where he literally does the like, holds out the hands is like, eyyy, Vice President Kamala Harris, and it was the funniest thing that I've seen in a very long time. But also that moment of being like in what world would anybody have done that except for somebody who I think you called a, quote, absolute goofball.

EVAN GERSHKOVICH, WALL STREET JOURNAL REPORTER: Yeah. Look, well, first of all, thank you so much for having me on, Phil. It's just a pleasure to be talking about Evan coming home for once first time, the first time in 16 months.

Secondly, that was Evin to a T. I expected nothing less to see him come off the flight and do that like big hug thing to the vice president of the United States. And that was just Evan through and through and through. And we were so thrilled and so happy to see that.

And I also thought it was even more hysterical that he went up to speak to the press. I mean, there's plenty of "Wall Street Journal" reporters there that workers, colleagues, and, he was so talkative and chatting so much that his parents actually had to pull him out of there and get him into the car to go home.

And so, we are just thrilled to see that Evan has his personality and his spirit and thank you for talking about that piece that he wrote because I hope there he really captured who Evan is person. Now, all of America can see that last night.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, it provided such a full picture of him as a human being, not just a great reporter whose work we all knew so well, we understand you spoke with Evan's sister since he came back. How is the family doing right now?

GERSHKOVICH: Yeah. I mean, it was a very brief text exchange. They obviously had a lot going on. But I can say that they're thrilled and there over the moon, they had a good result for the 16 months of hard work that they all put it and especially his mother, Ella, put in, moving mountains to get their side on home.

And so, you know, we're eternally grateful to his family for being so strong through this whole process. And they're thrilled. They're over the moon and we just cannot wait to give Evan a hug when he's ready to see us.

MATTINGLY: Yeah. The hug with his mom where he picked her up was about his predecessor moment you can imagine. I referenced that this amazing "Wall Street Journal" piece that they have kind of going through everything that's happened in as part of that very end of it, the best kicker and a piece I've ever read in my life, where it says Evan was filling out a technical form to request the clemency from Vladimir Putin, he filled out the optional comment section and asked for an interview with Vladimir Putin.

Did that surprise you?

JEREMY BERKE, FRIEND OF EVAN GERSHKOVICH: Look on the one hand, we're like, come on, man, like just -- just get home. You know what I mean? Like don't -- don't rock the boat like you're almost out there on the other hand, like we expected, nothing less like he was sitting to paint the picture. He was sitting for over a year, 23 hours a day in a cell, in a horrible, forlorn prison in Russia.

And the first thing he does when he can taste freedom is asked his captor for an interview. I mean, he's so dedicated to his job, so dedicated to telling the truth and it's just incredible and remarkable to watch from afar and look like were just so, so proud of him. I mean, getting emotional, just thinking about how strong he has to do that.

MATTINGLY: Yeah. It was definitely one of those you read that -- you're like, man, I wish I was that cool to do that myself.

You know, Paul Beckett, we spoke to him yesterday as "Wall Street Journal" assistant editor was really the driving force behind the whole "Wall Street Journal" response to this, keeping it front and center. He said this morning, it's totally up to Evan to decide what he's going to do next once he's recuperated.

It's too early to figure out like, what is it going to get back on to be? What's he going to do is going to report. Clearly, he wants to interview President Putin.

What do you think is next here?

Yeah, look, I mean, I want to let Evan speak for himself. I mean, when he was in prison, we could sort of feel that airspace and speak on his behalf. And now, it's up to him and were going to follow his lead. I will tell you this. I think it was quite remarkable that the first thing he told the press when he got off the flight was that there are other political dissidents. There are other political prisoners still in Russia who don't have the resources and the leverage of "The Wall Street Journal" and the Dow Jones. So, you know, if he wants us to help in that fight and continue that fight, we're there at the drop of a hat to do it? Other than that, you know, I think and I hope that he takes couple of days off, he takes a little break to kick his feet up a little bit because he deserves to crack a beer and sleep for 14 hours, I think.

MATTINGLY: Yeah, I think its sort of his family, so folks like yourselves who have been living through this as well, from the state side.

Jeremy Berke, really appreciate your time, thrilled for you and everybody around Evan and mostly just thrilled and grateful for Evan and those who returned home yesterday. Thanks so much.

BERKE: Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

MATTINGLY: Well, they are sounding an urgent alarm, calling for a fight to defend U.S. freedom. The two leaders behind this bipartisan push will join us live, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:39:21]

MATTINGLY: In our law and justice lead, as protecting democracy remains a central issue in the 2024 campaign, two leading voices are warning about the threat of authoritarianism and what the U.S. can do to protect its freedom.

Retired federal judge, J. Michael Luttig, and former secretary of homeland security, Jeh Johnson, are sounding that alarm.

They both join me now. I appreciate your time.

The decision, Judge Luttig, to do this with a bipartisan group of lawyers. Can you explain the threat you see here?

J. MICHAEL LUTTIG, RETIRED FEDERAL JUDGE: Phil, thank you very much and Secretary Johnson joins me in thanking you and CNN for your interest in that Democracy Summit here in Chicago and for joining us this afternoon.

[16:40:07]

For reasons that we all know, Phil, American democracy and the rule of law are the issues of our time and today, the American Bar Association and the nation's 1.3 million lawyers are rising to the moment and they are answering the call to defend and support Americas democracy and the rule of law in this moment, especially between now and the election in November.

American lawyers are uniquely qualified and they are uniquely obligated to support and defend Americas democracy and the rule of law and they are answering that call from the country to do that today. Our Founding Fathers feared this very moment in American history when the nation would be swaddles in demagoguery and it would lead to Americans abandonment of democracy itself and the rule of law.

And that's why I believe that the election coming up in November is a test of Americans commitment to American democracy and the rule of law.

MATTINGLY: Secretary Johnson, the threat itself, the warning that you're outlining here, how -- how does it potentially undermine U.S. democracy?

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER OBAMA HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, first, Phil, thanks for having us on as Judge Luttig said, and we should be clear, this is not a campaign issue. This is an American issue. It's about our American democracy.

The way I see the threats, given my security background, when Americans are losing faith in their democracy, there's an open flirtation among some political leaders with authoritarian forms of government fueled by overheated, rhetoric irresponsible rhetoric, frankly, and we're also seeing rhetoric that condones and supports violence in some instances, and correlate with that, there's an actual rise in incidents of political violence in this country.

Just over the last four or five years culminating, of course, with the attempted assassination of former President Trump on July 13th.

So Judge Luttig and I are here as leader of a task force at the ABA Convention in Chicago, sending the call to lawyers that lawyers should be involved in tamping down the rhetoric in volunteering to support election workers, in volunteering to be poll watchers themselves, in volunteering to speak to community groups about correcting misinformation, misimpression, about how elections work, and a number of other things.

Given the background and the training of lawyers, given their scale at conflict resolution, we think the lawyers are uniquely positioned at this critical moment in the history of our democracy to step up and support and defend the Constitution, the rule of law.

Just like doctors step forward during the COVID crisis, it's now a time for lawyers to do the same when it comes to supporting and defending our Constitution, the rule of law and our democracy.

MATTINGLY: You know, Judge Luttig, you are a well-known and respected conservative lawyer, Secretary Johnson obviously served in Democratic administrations. What's striking to me is lawyers are not a monolith. There are different views of legal theories of the case to some degree, we can see it in the court system you see it a nominations, not to make things political.

And you can also see in the fact that there are a lot of lawyers that surrounds the former president, his team would like to be in a second administration who have a far more expansive view of what they believed the executive branch should do, of what they believe is allowed in an election or around an election. They were lawyers involved in the effort to overturn the 2020 election.

How do you explain this message in reaching those individuals?

LUTTIG: Well, that is not our message. Our message is this: that American democracy and the rule of law are not political issues at all, let alone partisan political issues. These are the fundamental values and principles upon which this nation was founded, and has been the envy of the world for almost 250 years.

[16:45:13]

Of course, the politicians, they will politicize anything but American democracy and the rule of law are in incapable of being politicized. That's our message, and together with the message that they ought not be politicized, one day longer, that's our message not only to do the 1.3 million lawyers in America, but to the American public.

MATTINGLY: Secretary Johnson, before I let you guys go, kind of your thoughts in this moment. You know, you mentioned kind of the political violence of what we've seen, including the assassination attempt on the former president given your career, your history, this taskforce, your efforts here -- what are your thoughts right now?

JOHNSON: Well, it's important to touch upon what you said earlier, Phil. Judge Luttig is of a certain judicial and political philosophy and I'm of another. But we both took an oath to support and defend the Constitution when we entered public office at various points in our career. The very same Constitution we have the exact same view of the rule of law and they're just certain arguments certain assertions of law that are beyond the pale that have no good faith basis in any reasonable legal interpretation.

And we saw that on January 6, and this man to my left here had the courage to tell the vice president notwithstanding some legal advice, he was getting elsewhere, that no, he did not have the authority to set aside the Electoral College count on January 6. That's not a liberal or conservative or progressive interpretation of the Constitution. That is a plain reading of the Constitution that every responsible lawyer should come to.

MATTINGLY: Judge Luttig, Secretary Johnson, really appreciate your time and very important statement from your group. Thanks so much.

JOHNSON: Thanks.

LUTTIG: Thank you, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Well, there were admissions today from the acting head of the Secret Service. What he told reporters about the roof where the shooter was positioned, and how often they actually send counter- snipers to these types of events.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:51:33] MATTINGLY: In our law and justice lead, the acting director of the U.S. Secret Service tried once again to clean up his agency's reputation in the wake of all of the mistakes and oversights leading up to last month's attempted assassination of former President Trump.

CNN's Whitney Wild joins us now.

Actor Director Ron Rowe answered reporters questions this afternoon. At length, it seemed like.

What did he say?

WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, there were a bunch of new revelations in there, Phil. In one of them, it really focuses on some of the communications.

And so what we learned today was there's a growing some growing clarity that the radio situation on the ground was pretty scattered and that's a problem, Phil, because what we know is that local law enforcement had been tracking that gunman for quite some time, but the information was at times being passed over text message at times being passed over the radio, of what the acting Secret Service director described was to command level sites, and one was this unified command post were local law enforcement was on the radio.

They could hear each other and then there was a security room where the Secret service was positioned with a Pennsylvania state trooper and what he said was that in the urgency it appears that there was radio traffic that the Secret Service just didn't get. They just it just got missed and so those are the things that they're trying to nail down, but its important, Phil, because that the radio communications simplifying that is an actual fixable problem and something that they're moving forward to try to change as they continue to do protective cites.

The other thing, Phil, is that this was the first time that they used Secret Service counter-snipers at the former presidents events. That was a piece of new information we learned today.

And then finally, Phil, there were a lot of questions about accountability and so what reporters were asking is when are we going to know if anybody is going to be disciplined or fired because of this. And here's what Director Rowe said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALD ROWE JR., ACTING U.S. SECRET SERVICE DIRECTOR: Every single person within the secret service feels the weight of what happened. We are in an unprecedented threat environment and high operational tempo during this presidential campaign. The men and women of the Secret Service are working incredibly hard and doing their jobs under difficult circumstances. They need to focus on their work and they need to know that I have their backs, and that is my commitment to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP) WILD: Phil, Director Rowe made very clear that we will not find out about that in real time, but he said at some point he may be able to make a high level statement about the accountability here -- Phil.

MATTINGLY: With these officers, you know well, these officers -- these events are often led by local Secret Service offices, the Pittsburgh office was in charge of this specific rally.

What do we know about the officers' experience?

WILD: Certainly, there are a lot of very tough questions here, Phil, what Director Roe said and this was in response to a question asked by our Holmes Lybrand. He said that this was an experienced office and that they are taking this very hard and they plan to cooperate with all of the investigations going on, and particularly the one that the secret service is doing internally to try to figure out what happened.

MATTINGLY: All right. Whitney Wild for us, thanks so much.

Well, Vice President Harris gearing up for a weekend meetings with her potential running mates, but there's one name that Donald Trump and J.D. Vance keep bringing up. Who is it? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:59:28]

MATTINGLY: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Phil Mattingly, in for Jake Tapper.

This hour, it was an incredibly emotional reunion for the Americans released from Russia, including journalist Alsu Kurmasheva, who made it home just in time to celebrate her daughter's birthday today. So, what comes next and what about the others unfairly held behind bars? Alsu's boss joins us live in minutes.

Plus, he's accurately predicted the winner of nine of the last 10 presidential elections. So what does Allan Lichtman think is going to happen come November? Is he picking Harris or leaning towards Trump? I'll ask him live.

And leading this hour, Vice President Kamala Harris on the clock. It's just has a few days to pick her running mate if she's going to meet her self-imposed deadline of next Tuesday.