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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump's Second Assassination Attempt Suspect Wrote a Letter Detailing His Plans; North Carolina's Mark Robinson Defiant After Staff Resigned; Trump Turns Down Harris's Debate Invitation; Lebanon Reports Deadliest Attack from Israel. Deadliest Day Of Israel Strikes In Lebanon Since 2006; MI Attorney Gen Prosecutes Univ. Of Michigan Protesters; RFK Jr. Floats Possible Trump Admin Public Health Role. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 23, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, a defiant Mark Robinson, the North Carolina Republican nominee for governor, returns to the campaign trail after that damning CNN report uncovering disturbing comments he made on a porn website in which he called himself a black Nazi and expressed support for slavery and much more. And now that multiple top staffers for his campaign have just quit, what comes next for Mr. Robinson?

Plus, notorious anti-vaxxer Robert F. Kennedy Jr., who regularly peddles medical lies, says he's going to get to help pick the nation's top health officials if Donald Trump wins the election in November. I'm going to be joined live by one of the nation's top vaccine experts, who has directly spoken with Kennedy about these dangerous beliefs.

And leading this hour, brand new details about the man accused of trying to assassinate Donald Trump earlier this month, investigators say Ryan Routh left a chilling and disturbing letter detailing what he planned to do eight days ago at the former president's golf club, which he addressed to the world and wrote, quote, "This was an assassination attempt on Donald Trump, but I failed you. It is up to you now to finish the job" unquote. CNN's Randi Kaye joins us now from West Palm Beach, Florida. Randi, walk us through what else was discovered.

RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jake, just a little bit more on that letter that was given to federal prosecutors via -- federal investigators. That came from a witness who said that Routh delivered a box to his home a while back. And in that letter, just a bit more on it, and he said, "I tried my best and gave it all the gumption I could muster." And then he went on to offer $150,000 to anyone who could finish the job.

Also in court today, Jake, we learned that the defendant in this case, according to federal investigators, had a clear line of fire to the sixth hole putting green. And as you know Jake, Donald Trump was on the fifth hole putting green when this went down they said that that would have been -- would have put Donald Trump about 12 to 15 minutes away from that sixth hole putting green, behind the sixth hole putting green, so.

There wasn't a lot of time before he would have arrived there. They also said that from where they believe Routh was, there was about a hundred feet in distance between where he was and that sixth hole putting green. We also learned that there was a piece of tape on the scope that they found on that rifle. It was a piece of electrical tape that was holding the scope to the rifle, and they found a, preliminarily at least, a fingerprint that they say belongs to Ryan Routh on that electrical tape, not on the firearm itself.

Also, Jake, it came out in court today that there was a letter at the scene that was discovered that was addressed to the "New York Times." They tested it for DNA. They looked at it for fingerprints. They said, as of now, they haven't found any of Routh's fingerprints or DNA on there. But Jake, interestingly, they did find a fingerprint belonging to somebody else. They did not say who that person is or what the letter said. Jake?

TAPPER: What is -- what was found in the car, Randi?

KAYE: In that car they found that they caught him in, they found a Hawaii driver's license and passport in his name. They also found 12 pairs of gloves, six cell phones. One of them, they said, showed a search for how to get from Palm Beach County, where this all happened, to Mexico. They also said that the cell phone data puts Ryan Routh in this area for about a month, that he arrived here on August 14th based on pings from the cell phone tower from his cell phone. That would have put him here as of August 14th. And then that incident of course happened on September 15th.

And then finally, Jake, also in the car, there was a list of venues and dates where the former president was going to appear and that was handwritten and they say that is Ryan Routh's handwriting. Jake?

TAPPER: Randi Kaye, thanks so much. Joining us now is CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller, as well as former Secret Service agent Jason Russell. John, let's start with the letter. What do you make of this letter? How does it shape the investigation from here?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, the letter does two things. One, it makes clear if they can prove that it was from him that he intended to at least attempt to assassinate President Donald Trump. The curious thing is the letter seems to predict that he failed. So was this some arrangement? Don't open this unless you hear I've been caught by the police. Was it something else? But it's an indicator of intent, which is the legally important piece. The interesting piece, it's a prediction of failure at that.

TAPPER: Jason, prosecutors revealed that Routh had a direct line on the six-hole green, which was the next hole that Trump would have played. This man was able to get a direct line with his rifle pointed onto the course.

[17:04:58]

How much does that signal to you that this was a clear failure on the part of the U.S. Secret Service?

JASON RUSSELL, FORMER SECRET SERVICE AGENT: Yeah, I think they weren't treating it as they obviously should have treated it, right? The perimeter wasn't big enough. This is the second time we've seen this. So obviously some concerns there. His ability to stay there for 12 hours ahead of time and not being picked up by anybody because that area wasn't swept, I think is a significant concern for the Secret Service.

TAPPER: How surprising is it to you that there were these security vulnerabilities, given the fact that the first assassination attempt was just a few months ago?

RUSSELL: Extremely surprising. I think the Secret Service was treating this more like they would treat it off the record movement. So maybe there was a lot of heads up given that he was going to play golf even though there's some indication that he had said the night before that he was going to. So sweeping this area probably should have been done well ahead -- well in advance of and actually even getting to the course.

For the fact that this guy was able to get so close, had the rifle there, you know, within several hundred yards had he not been observed, he obviously would have been able to get a shot at him.

TAPPER: John, Routh also had a list of dates and venues where Trump was expected to appear in the lead up to the presidential election. And cell phone data shows that Routh was near this Trump golf course or Mar-a-Lago multiple times between August 18th and September 5th, the day he was arrested. Could this potentially open the door for additional charges, do you think?

MILLER: Oh, and it will. Federal prosecutors have telegraphed today that they intend to go beyond the charges that he's being held on now, which is possession of a firearm by a convicted felon and having a firearm with an obliterated serial number conspiring to attempt to assassinate the former president of the United States. It's covered under a number of laws about federal officials, former federal officials, and people under the protection of the Secret Service.

But that is based on the evidence that was outlined in the pretrial detention memo today. Certainly, a lot of indicators that A, he understood right from wrong, B, he did things to conceal his activities, C, he took overt steps in terms of planning, pre- operational surveillance, gathering equipment to show a strong intent to carry this out. His lawyer countered that by saying, what we have here looks more like a publicity stunt and he wasn't a serious player. Judge wasn't buying it.

TAPPER: And Jason, regarding these multiple visits that Routh apparently made near Mar-a-Lago, near the golf courts, do you assume he was scouting it out?

RUSSELL: Yeah, that's actually pretty typical of potential assassins that actually do some research to be seen in the area. He obviously was paying attention to schedules and had some indication of where former President Trump would be in terms of playing golf and things like that. But he was doing what's pretty typical of these people that actually make an attempt which is actually taking actions. A lot of people make threats. They don't ever do anything. It's the people that actually take some significant action in furtherance of that threat that are really concerning. Obviously, he took an extreme action, brought a rifle, and got within 600 yards.

TAPPER: And John, what questions do you still have in this investigation?

MILLER: Well, I mean, it still circles back to, did anybody else know where that letter was found in this box at a friend's house? Was the friend looped into this? That other fingerprint that was recovered in keeping with the rifle, who does that belong to? You always want to know whether you have somebody who may be unhinged, who's trying to do something irrational, or if you have someone who is taking that person and targeting them towards this mission. In most cases, it isn't, but in every case, you have to look.

TAPPER: Alright, John Miller and Jason Russell, thanks so much. As Israel increases its strike on Hezbollah targets in Lebanon, we're going to check in with a man who led both the Pentagon and CIA to glean what might come next.

And if you thought declaring yourself a black Nazi on a porn site might be enough to disqualify you from leading a battleground state, well, stick around. You're going to be surprised by the latest responses to the bombshell CNN report, first seen last week, right here on "The Lead."

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TAPPER: In our "2024 Lead," several top members of Republican Mark Robinson's campaign for governor of North Carolina have resigned, including his campaign manager and his deputy campaign manager and his finance director and a senior advisor. Their exit comes just days after a CNN report uncovered disturbing comments that Robinson made on a porn website, including when he called himself a black Nazi.

So could this governor's race impact how North Carolina votes in the presidential race? CNN's Tom Foreman has a look at how the Trump campaign is responding or not responding to the allegations against Robinson.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARK ROBINSON, REPUBLICAN GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE, NORTH CAROLINA: In order to put the people first, we've got to concentrate on this campaign. And that is exactly what we're going to do. TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): On a mild day in North

Carolina, Republican Mark Robinson is a man in a hurricane. After CNN's K-File unearthed a history of him posting graphic and sexual comments on a porn website, supporting the reinstatement of slavery, and calling himself a black Nazi, all of which he calls salacious false lies.

ROBINSON: We are not going to let CNN throw us off of our mission. Our mission is to win this race.

FOREMAN (voice-over): But the accusation seems to have former President Donald Trump's team on high alert. He did not mention his hand-picked candidate while visiting the battleground state this weekend, even though Trump had enthusiastically endorsed Robinson.

DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I said, I think you're better than Martin Luther King. I think you are Martin Luther King times two.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Trump's running mate, J.D. Vance's take on Robinson's denials.

J.D. VANCE, REPUBLICAN VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I don't not believe him, I don't believe him, I just think that you have to let these things sometimes play out in the court of public opinion.

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FOREMAN (voice-over): It's certainly playing out among Robinson's campaign staff, where several key players have resigned, and in Vice President Kamala Harris's campaign, which has rolled out a new ad scorching Trump's ties to the controversial Robinson.

ROBINSON: Abortion in this country, it's about killing a child because you aren't responsible enough to keep your skirt down.

TRUMP: I've been with him a lot. I've gotten to know him, and he's outstanding.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Democratic gubernatorial contender Josh Stein says it's all proof his opponent isn't fit for office.

JOSH STEIN, DEMICRATIC GUBERNATORIAL CANDIDATE, NORTH CAROLINA: Robinson exists because Donald Trump has lifted him up throughout.

FOREMAN (voice-over): And North Carolina's senior senator, Tom Tillis, has posted, "If the reporting is a fabrication, Robinson should take immediate legal action. If the reporting is true. He owes it to President Trump and every Republican to take accountability."

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on camera): Polls had Robinson well behind before this story broke. It's a little early to know what effect it might have on Robinson or on Trump at this point, but we do know this. Trump's team has said they need to win this state and this doesn't make it any easier. Jake?

TAPPER: Alright, Tom Foreman, thanks so much. Let's discuss with our panel. Ayesha, North Carolina has not voted for a Democrat for president since Obama in 2008, and it was a long drought before that. Trump won there in 2020, but barely under 75,000 votes. A new "New York Times-Sienna Poll" released today says Harris is only trailing Trump by two percentage points in North Carolina, well within the margin of error. This poll was conducted before the bombshell report by K-File about Robinson. Do you think it will have an effect on the presidential?

AYESHA RASCOE, HOST, NPR'S WEEKEND EDITION SUNDAY: I think that is difficult to tell, but I think because the race is so close, you don't want something like this dragging the ticket even further down, right? Like you don't want people who maybe are turned off by Trump and then also turned off by Robinson, who feel like, eh, maybe I just won't go out and vote, you know, maybe I'm conservative.

And also, I think it's a missed opportunity. Because like I said, I was in North Carolina recently, I'm talking to voters. And what the black men that I talked to said was not that they're Democrats and they'll always going to be Democrats, but if the Republicans put forward a serious candidate that they felt like was serious, that they would consider them. But they did not feel like Robinson or Trump were very serious candidates.

And so I think that it's a missed opportunity for Republicans when they have these types of candidates who are -- who have so much baggage and say all these outrageous things that it turns people off.

TAPPER: So, Kristin, Trump did not invite nor did he even mention, Lieutenant Governor Robinson at his North Carolina rally over the weekend. Then you heard his running mate J.D. Vance, Senator J.D. Vance, he didn't exactly defend Robinson. He said, I don't not believe him. And then the allegations aren't necessarily reality. What would you advise Trump and Vance to do? Should they distance themselves? They seem to be kind of just trying to have it both ways.

KRISTIN DAVISON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, I think not having Robinson at the rally was a huge, I mean, I think that's more than having in both ways.

TAPPER: Okay.

DAVISON: I think that's a step towards cutting him loose. I think Vance, the first thing he said on Twitter, basically saying, look, Robinson didn't tank the economy. He didn't cause the immigration crisis. That was more of where I would recommend, they go versus debating whether or not he's telling the truth. Look, he's a terrible candidate. The missed opportunity was back in the Republican primary when the $10 million spent did nothing to get a better candidate in the race.

So, I think that in North Carolina, there's probably not a whole lot of Robinson, not Trump voters. There's probably plenty of Trump, not Robinson voters. Right now, I think the risk is tripping while having to respond or react to Robinson, but ignoring is probably the best way.

TAPPER: What do you think, Mike?

MIKE MURPHY, GOP STRATEGIST: Well, Nazi porn freak, cut him loose. This isn't a hard one. The problem for Trump here is less North Carolina. That state is in play, but it's a bit of the stretch for the Ds. So they're in the hunt. The problem is there are only so many days left. And every day that Trump's not on offense, still in border and inflation is a wasted day. So Trump has this psychosis about never backing up and it's hurting him.

It's burning days. He needs to be talking about other things. So Robinson campaign, it's been dead for weeks. It's almost irrelevant. So the question is, what's the impact on Trump, not just North Carolina, but in the other even more key states?

TAPPER: So do you think it has an effect? Let me ask you, does it have an effect on a mom in outside Philly whose vote is up for grabs? Does she really care whether or not Trump distances herself from -- himself from Mark Robinson?

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think generally no. There's generally not such a thing as reverse coattails with someone below you. But and I think Kristin's right, Trump handled it well by just staying away. But then J.D. brought it onto the ticket, into that interview, I don't not believe him. Free talking points for Republicans. J.D., here's what you say, you quote, Jake Blues from the Blues Brothers. I hate Illinois Nazis. I hate North Carolina Nazis. I hate all Nazis, or say, gee, I think slavery was bad.

[17:20:00]

Come out, Donald Trump opposes slavery. Like this is a lay down deal. J.D. is so bad at this. I think Trump did the right thing. I think he should go further and not just cut him off, but disavow him. And that could help Trump in that state. But it's amazing to me how a guy can't say, I don't like Nazis.

TAPPER: So over the weekend, Kamala Harris accepted CNN's invitation for a debate, a presidential debate between the two of them. That will be the second on October 23rd. Trump is saying it's too late because people have already started voting. The Harris campaign responded to this by posting a video montage of Trump saying his first debate among President Biden -- first debate against President Biden was very fair and they have three chicken head emojis. What would you recommend to him? Why not debate Kamala Harris?

DAVISON: Well, you know --

TAPPER: On CNN, a place that he already has said he got a fair shake.

DAVISON: Yeah, I think, you know, if I were in either camp, I don't think I would push for a second one, because she won't be able to repeat the surprise of having an outstanding debate. She'll never be able to meet those expectations again. And for him, you know, right now, why give her the airtime to impress again. So if I were in either camp, I probably wouldn't be pushing for it. I

think we're going to see over the next 40 some days, this tango of will we debate or not. At the end of the day, there aren't even that many people who are undecided. They're more undecided on whether they're going to vote or not.

MURPHY: Ten days from now, Trump thinks he's losing, he'll get back in the debate business because he will have no choice.

TAPPER: But he's not right now, not in the battleground states.

BEGALA: No, but I think -- first of all, it is a tied race, right. But I think the way that the Harris campaign goes at Trump is so different from the Biden campaign did. Biden was always hair on fire. He's a dictator, he's a bully, he's a threat. Kamala's go to is always he's weak. He's old, turn the page, he's a chicken. That really goes at the fundamentals of Trump's brand, which is strength, right?

And I think it's a really clever way for her to take him on. She can't do better than the last debate, Kristin's right, but she can get some benefit the way she did in the first debate by reminding people she sees him as weak.

TAPPER: What's the advantage to him saying no? Doesn't it make him look weak?

RASCOE: Well, I mean, I think the advantage to him is not getting back on that debate stage and having a night like he had. I don't think it helped him at all. And I think that she showed that she can get under his skin. And I think that, you know, when you talk about Harris, you know, not taking risks, this is Trump's version of not taking the risk of getting back out there and having another very difficult night.

TAPPER: So Trump has been saying for a while that if you're a Jewish and you think about voting Democrat, you should have your head examined. He now just joined another religious minority into this saying that Catholics are being persecuted by the Biden administration, Biden-Harris administration, and saying, quote, "Any Catholic that votes for comrade Kamala Harris should have their head examined." We don't do religious tests here. Murphy, that sounds Catholic.

MURPHY: Yes, no, I am.

TAPPER: Okay.

MURPHY: It's madness. It's offensive to people to look at him through one dimension like that. And the communities are large and diverse. There are Republican and Democratic Catholics, and nobody's looking to Donald Trump for spiritual guidance anyway. I don't care where you're from, so. But I wanted to echo the point you made. If the weakness thing catches on, that's kryptonite for him. He will have to debate.

TAPPER: Yeah.

MURPHY: If he thinks he's losing and weak, he will have to debate.

TAPPER: I don't know your religion. Anybody other -- you're a Catholic.

RASCOE: I'm a Pentecostal.

TAPPER: Pentecostal. You're Catholic, right?

DAVISON: Yeah, Catholic. Yeah.

TAPPER: Okay, so what do you think of him saying that?

DAVISON: You know, the thing with Donald Trump is that I don't think it's going to move a number either way. People know who he is. They've known him for decades.

TAPPER: I know, but do you find it offensive? Do you find it -- if you're going to votes -- if you're thinking about voting for a Democrat and you're a Catholic, you ought to have your head examined, which he has said about Jews also?

DAVISON: Yeah, I mean, I wish he wouldn't say that. But again, we're not looking to him for spiritual guidance. I think we are not --

TAPPER: Paul, you're going to get your head examined.

BEGALA: Yeah, no. Well, I probably should. But President Bush used to say it's against my religion to judge other people's religions. And I love that. And it is against mine for me to judge his. So I have no idea. Okay, that's between him and the Lord. But I wish he would not judge mine because it is offensive.

TAPPER: Thanks to our panel. Really appreciate it.

Breaking news from the Middle East, the death toll in Lebanon from Israeli strikes is soaring. We're going to check in with a man who ran the Pentagon, the CIA, and held one of the top seats at the White House to help us understand what might be next and what role the United States might play in all this. Stay with us.

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TAPPER: We're turning to our "World Lead." In numbers updated during just the last hour, the Lebanese government now says that at least 492 people have been killed, including 35 children and more than 1,600 people injured by Israeli airstrikes today in Lebanon, by far the largest attack on Lebanon since the war between Israel and Lebanon in 2006.

The Israelis are targeting, they say, the Iran-backed Hezbollah militia, which the U.S. and other Western nations designate as a terrorist organization. Hezbollah fighters have been steadily firing rockets into Israel since October 7th, forcing more than 60,000 Israelis from their homes. We are joined now by former U.S. Defense Secretary and CIA Director Leon Panetta. Thank you so much for joining us, Secretary Panetta.

This latest escalation of Israeli attacks on Hezbollah on Lebanon comes a day before President Biden is set to speak before the United Nations General Assembly. What do you think he should say in that address? Is there anything you think he could say that might revive negotiations to end the fighting among Israel, Hamas, and Hezbollah?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Well, there's no question that the United Nations is going to be talking an awful lot about the war that's taking place now between Israel and Hezbollah and the fact that it's become a wider war. And I assume that the President will in his remarks, have to address that.

And again, have to urge that the parties try to strive towards some kind of ceasefire in order to be able to provide for the hostage exchange, provide for a path as to what happens with Gaza and the Palestinians, what happens with humanitarian aid.

I think those arguments need to be made. And President Biden is the person to try to make those arguments. He's been urging a ceasefire. I think he's got to continue to do that.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Both Hamas and Hezbollah are obviously supported by Iran, which is issuing its own threats after today's attacks by Israel. Do you think any solution is possible with Iran there? Since Iran really seems to be at the heart of the problem, funding all of these proxy groups, not just Hamas and Hezbollah, but the Houthis and these militias in Syria and Iraq and more.

PANETTA: Well, Iran has always been at the heart of the problem, because they have in fact, been supplying these proxy forces that do their dirty work. And they've been doing it for a long time. And Iran has stated very clearly that they're going to continue to support Hezbollah. Whether or not there's an opportunity with the new president in Iran to try to see whether, at least you can begin some -- some kind of dialog, I -- I don't know, but that's probably worth an effort.

But I think right now, to be truthful, we've crossed a threshold here, Jake, between a war that tries to apply some restraint and a wider war. We're clearly walking into a much wider war. And that makes it much more difficult for any of the parties to agree to any kind of solution.

TAPPER: Does Israel, in your view, have the military capacity to fight Hezbollah and Hamas two fronts at the same time?

PANETTA: Well, there's no question that it strains their -- their capabilities. They've now been had to move, obviously, some forces out of Gaza towards the north. And they're focusing pretty much on the war with Lebanon. They obviously are getting supplies from the United States. They're obviously trying to redirect some of their resources towards the north. But there's no question that the longer this goes on, the more pressure it's going to put on their capability to continue to be able to fight this war.

TAPPER: Can the U.S. keep supplying Israel with the weapons Israel wants if this war expands in the civilian death toll continues?

PANETTA: Well, I think -- I think the United States has to make clear what the constraints are here. Obviously the United States is going to continue to provide those supplies, as we have, because of our bond with -- with Israel. But at the same time, you know, I -- I do think that it's important to make clear that we cannot have an all-out war in the Middle East right now.

This is the wrong time, the wrong place, and frankly, it's going to -- everybody's going to pay a price that I think will be devastating in terms of the future. I think those are the points that the United States has to make to Israel and try to keep pushing the parties to try to move in the direction of some kind of ceasefire.

The problem, to be frank, Jake, is that if you look at the past wars in -- in the Middle East, both parties have to kind of exhaust themselves before they're going to be prepared to talk about any kind of resolution, and that may be the case here.

TAPPER: All right. Leon Panetta, thanks so much. Always good to see you, sir.

[17:34:07]

A feud between two Democrats in a critical battleground state is playing out in public. Stick around to hear it all right here.

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TAPPER: In the spring, anti-Israel activists took over part of the main thoroughfare at the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's scary. It's terrifying. They have a sign that says, long live the Intifada. And that's just, you know, a callback from the Second Intifada, and -- and not a comfortable feeling. When I woke up this morning, I went to walk to class. It was the first time this semester I had to walk around the Diag.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, the protests got more heated at different times throughout the year. And right now, 11 participants in the protest, some of them students, some of them not, are being prosecuted. Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel's office alleges among the crimes committed during the 30-day takeover of the school are, quote, are ethnic intimidation and assault of a police officer, resisting arrest, misdemeanor trespass, destruction of personal property and disturbing the peace.

Now, when those charges were announced a few days ago, Michigan Democratic Congresswoman Rashida Tlaib of Michigan said that the charges were, quote, fri -- frivolous and a, quote, shameful attack on students' rights. And then Congresswoman Tlaib said, quote, it seems that the Attorney General decided if the issue was Palestine, she was going to treat it differently. And that alone speaks volumes about possible biases within the agency she runs, unquote.

Now that comment left some in Michigan, including Attorney General Nessel, with the impression that Congresswoman Tlaib was accusing Nessel, who was Jewish, with letting her religion affect her decision to prosecute, especially given the bipartisan vote in Congress last November to censure Congresswoman Tlaib for her comments about Israel, that's part of the context here.

We asked Congresswoman Tlaib to come on the show today to clarify, she did not respond to our request. We asked her office to clarify, what bias does Nessel have or her office? And they did not give us an answer. But Attorney General Nessel joins us now, so let's get to the heart of this. You called Congresswoman Tlaib's reaction to your office's charges and her allegation that you and your office have bias. You said that was anti-Semitic. Why?

[17:40:22]

DANA NESSEL (D), MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, you know, look for her to say that I could handle a litany of other cases, and that was fine, but when it comes to anything involving pro-Palestinian protesters, I could not be fair, I could not be objective. And I don't think you have to be Angela Lansbury to figure this out, right?

Clearly, she's referencing my religion as to why she thinks I can't be fair. She also mischaracterized the charges. And I think quite in, you know, intentionally, I mean, she talked about this being peaceful protesters. No peaceful protesters were charged in this event. And, you know, Rashida is a lawyer. She had every opportunity to call me to ask to see the evidence in this case, but you didn't do that, you know.

I -- I have to rely on the facts, the law and the evidence when I go into a court of law. And that's what we evaluated in this case. And that's the only thing that we evaluated in terms of making a determination as to these charges.

TAPPER: I should note that I misspoke yesterday when asking a follow up of Governor Whitmer, who I asked about this, I was trying to characterize your views of Tlaib's comments. What do you make of those today, noting that Congresswoman Tlaib never explicitly said that your bias was because of your religion, and so it's unfair for you to make that allegation?

NESSEL: Well, a couple things. First of all, in 2022 when my opponent accused me of being a groomer and a pedophile, everyone understood that those were homophobic remarks because I -- I happen to be gay, right? I didn't have to explain it to people. Rashida Tlaib is an individual who is well known for making inflammatory -- inflammatory and incendiary remarks that are anti-Semitic in nature. So this isn't the first time that we would have heard these words out of her mouth.

I think it's very clear to everybody exactly what she was saying, but I -- I have to say this, you know, it is my job to keep communities and campuses around the state of Michigan safe. And that is exactly what we're doing. Understand that the congresswoman has very strong feelings about what's happening in the Middle East, so many people do here in the state of Michigan.

But, you know, that doesn't excuse criminal behavior. And the -- the answer to what's happening in the Middle East, clearly, is not to have chaos and anarchy and lawlessness on our college campuses in a way that jeopardizes the safety of students.

TAPPER: It's my understanding that the University of Michigan is not displeased with charges being brought against people who were not peaceful protesters.

NESSEL: The university has not commented to me anyway, one way or another. These cases were submitted to my office. And we did a fair and impartial and extensive review. And again, this evidence will be presented in a court of law. But I don't think it's helpful to anyone to have the congresswoman commenting on the, you know, the merit of these cases when she's not familiar with the facts or the evidence.

TAPPER: So I just want to note that the governor of -- of Michigan, when I asked her about this disagreement between you and Congresswoman Tlaib, didn't really weigh in. She said that she -- she -- she specifically said she wasn't going to get into a disagreement. But today, she issued a statement saying, quote, the suggestion that Attorney General Nessel would make charging decisions based on her religion, as opposed to the rule of law, is anti-semitic. We must use our platform and voices to call out hateful rhetoric and racist tropes. What did you make of -- of what she said yesterday and her comment today, Governor Whitmer?

NESSEL: Well, I certainly appreciate her statement today. We'll say this about Governor Whitmer, we've had a very close, personal and professional relationship. I think we've worked really well together over the course of our time in these offices. She supported me and she also supported the Jewish community. So, you know, I -- I -- I just think it's important that we focus on maintaining safety, security, and, you know, frankly, make sure that people around the state of Michigan know that irrespective of what's happening in the Middle East, people are going to be protected here in the state of Michigan.

TAPPER: Thank you so much Attorney General Dana Nessel for clarity, Congresswoman Tlaib's office did respond to our original interview request, but did not answer any follow up questions. Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel, thanks so much.

[17:44:49]

Coming up next, what would happen if RFK Jr. got to pick the country's top health officials despite his history of spreading medical misinformation?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I know that I'm going to be deeply involved in helping to choose the people who are -- who are -- who can run FDA and NIH and CDC?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you imagine, if you're at FDA or NIH and Bobby Kennedy, listen, they must be dying.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: They must be dying is an interesting term for the notion of RFK Jr. being involved in healthcare decisions for the nation, overruling experts. Meanwhile, Trump ally Ted Cruz just tweeted that he had lunch with Kennedy Jr. And this past weekend, Trump himself said it's too early to quote, make deals yet, but he also said this about RFK Jr.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Bobby will do great on health and on the environment. What he's done on healthcare over the years, I mean, I've known him for a long time, and with him, it's eating what you eat.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The staunch anti-vaccine activist, RFK Jr., buddies up to Trump after he dropped out of his race this summer when he was running and then withdrew. Dr. Paul Offit, a familiar face who guided us through many COVID questions we had through the pandemic is here. And Dr. Offit, I first want to remind our viewers of some of what RFK Jr. has said about coronavirus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:50:10]

KENNEDY JR.: COVID-19, there's an argument that it is ethnically targeted. COVID-19 attacks certain races disproportionately. COVID-19 is targeted to attack Caucasians and -- and black people. The people who are most immune are Ashkenazi Jews and -- and Chinese.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What would the can -- first of all, let me just fact check that Dr. Offit, is it true that Jews and Chinese people are more immune to COVID than any other ethnic group?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: No. COVID was an equal opportunity employer. It -- it included all ethnic groups, racial backgrounds, anyone was susceptible from dying from that virus. I have no idea where he gets that from.

TAPPER: What might the country look like if there's another pandemic, and RFK Jr. is in charge or -- or has participated in picking the public health leadership, the scientific leadership for the Trump administration?

OFFIT: Well, he's already said if he was the head of the National Institutes of Health, he would eliminate their study of infectious diseases and only study chronic diseases, which he believes are caused by vaccines and a variety of other toxins in the environment. Eliminate the study of infectious diseases, we've had three coronavirus pandemics in the last 20 years. Let's assume there'll be another one. We've seen Ebola virus pandemics. We see Dengue as a as an increasing problem. I -- I mean, how much more information do we need that infectious diseases are very much part of our lives and need to be studied.

TAPPER: Anthony Fauci, obviously a career government virologist, told us to hunker down until there was a vaccine. In contrast to some elected officials who suggested taking Ivermectin to ward off COVID- 19, what happens when all these lifelong experts are driven out of their roles? Where might the public turn for help? Obviously, nobody is infallible. Obviously the government was learning, as it went with the COVID vaccine, nobody would say that everything said was perfect. But what happens in a world where there really are no experts like yourself, like Dr. Fauci?

OFFIT: And -- and that's the goal of Project 2025, regarding statements they make about the FDA, the CDC and the NIH, which is, let's eliminate expertise. Let's eliminate government expertise. I mean, you have the Advisory Committee for Immunization Practices to the CDCs was founded in the early 60s. You have the FDA vaccine Advisory Committee, which has been making advice on vaccines that has been enabled us to live longer, better lives.

I mean, when I grew up, the -- the bacteria like pneumococcus and Haemophilus Influenzae B, when I was a resident was -- was a routine killer of children, causing meningitis and sepsis. Rotavirus, you know, cause 75,000 children to be hospitalized every year, but because of the expertise of those committees that have guided us to use the kind of vaccines that live us, to you -- that have allowed us to live 30 years longer than we did 100 years ago, we live better lives.

And the notion of just eliminating it, eliminating expertise, the notion that everybody is an expert is -- is obviously a very dangerous and ill-informed thing to do.

TAPPER: So Robert F Kennedy, Jr. says, I know I'm going to be deeply involved in choosing the people who can run the National Institutes of Health, the Food and Drug Administration, the Centers for Disease Control. And former President Trump says, Bobby will do great on health, what he's done on health care over the years, I know for a long time. What do you -- what do you -- what does that make you think of was going to be like if -- if Trump wins, as certainly might happen?

OFFIT: Bobby Kennedy, Jr., ignores data. I mean, so -- so he came up with the notion, or it was -- it was, the notion was that the measles, mumps, rubella, MMR vaccine caused autism. Study after study after study showed that wasn't true. You were no more likely to develop autism if you've gotten that vaccine or if you haven't. He knows that. Yet, he continues to put that notion out there, continues to scare parents, continues to allow those parents, or encourage those parents, to put children in harm's way.

What he did in Samoa, which was claiming that the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine was killing children, caused a drop in immunization rates in that company which he visited, country, rather which he visited, hung out with anti-vaccine activists, wrote a letter to the president of Samoa, immunization rates dropped. There were 5,600 tastes of measles and 83 deaths in children in Samoa, all less than four years of all -- of age as a direct consequence of his lobbying efforts. That's what disinformation does. It kills. And I think that were he in a position of authority regarding health, we would be in serious trouble.

TAPPER: So it would be like Samoa, except at the scale of the United States?

OFFIT: Right. Samoa is a small island nation of 200,000 people. We have 300 million people. So imagine what it could what that could be.

[17:55:02]

TAPPER: Dr. Paul Offit, thanks so much for your time today. Appreciate it. We have some breaking news just in a major hurricane now predicted to hit parts of the southeastern United States in just a few days. We're going to have more from the CNN Weather Center, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Breaking news, the National Hurricane Center now predicts a major hurricane will hit Florida in just a few days. Let's get right to Chad Myers in the CNN Weather Center. Chad?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Potential tropical cyclone number nine, way too many words, Jake, for this little storm. But by Wednesday, it will be a hurricane. And by the time we're talking about landfall, it could be, and it's forecast to be a major hurricane.

Tampa, you're not really out of the cone, neither are you Panama City. But look where it's going, right where we already had another one earlier this year. But a rapid intensification model now, over the past couple of runs now indicate that this will likely be category three or possibly higher hurricane as it makes landfall.

[18:00:04]

The waters are very warm. We're talking upper 90s, some spots to the south, upper 80s, where the water is right now, where the storm is, all of this very deep, deep moisture for this storm to get stronger quickly.

Well, watch the American and the European models will have crews on the ground. All of this coming up this week, this will be making landfall in less than 72 hours. Jake?

TAPPER: Chad Myers, thank you so much. And the news continues on CNN with one Mr. Wolf Blitzer, right next door, in a place I like to call the Situation Room. See you tomorrow.