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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Secret Service Agent On Leave Over Alleged Sexual Misconduct Against A Harris Staffer; Sen. Mike Rounds, (R-SD), Is Interviewed About Election Interference, Election Security, Secret Service, Secret Service Agent; Intel Officials Brief Senators On Election Interference; Senators Briefed On Election Security By FBI, NSA; Senate Report: Secret Service "Failure" Were "Preventable"; N.C.'s GOP Candidate For Gov. Remains Defiant After KFile Report; Speaker Johnson Asked About GOP Lawmaker's Controversial Post; Missouri Executes Marcellus Williams Despite Calls From Prosecutors And The Victim's Family To Spare His Life; In New Interview, Romney Braces For Another Trump Term. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired September 25, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:00:37]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, a new interview with a Republican who says he's worried that he'll be on the public enemies List if Donald Trump gets reelected, and is even musing about whether or not he might need to flee the country.

Plus, stunning failures by the U.S. Secret Service detailed in a new report from the lawmakers investigating the first attempt to assassinate Donald Trump and allegations that so many of those failures were not only, quote, "preventable," but the agency has not done anything to address them.

And leading this hour, a brand new update just in to CNN as Hurricane Helene gains strength in barrels toward the United States with landfall expected tomorrow. It's a massive update. Let's get straight to meteorologist Chad Myers in CNN hurricane headquarters.

And Chad, you tell us this is pretty serious.

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: It is. Now we're up to Cat four. We are category four hurricane making landfall in that Big Bend area of Florida. And I know there's not a lot of population there, but you don't have to go more than 20 miles inland to get to Tallahassee, a big population center with big trees, lots of areas there that are going to have power outages, and continues to move to the north from there. It is, right now, an 85 mile per hour storm.

The same real hurricane warnings are in effect. Jake, the water is 85, 87 degrees there. This thing will still gain strength. And there you see 130, 130 miles per hour with still more runway to get there, more water even to get before we get to landfall tomorrow night. There will be wind gusts across all of Florida. And even in northern parts of Georgia and the Carolinas that exceed 60 to 70 miles per hour. There will be, likely, millions of power outages with this storm. Driving across I10 will be virtually impossible. You shouldn't even do it. And I hope they shut it down, because when you get winds like this going across that roadway, it's just going to be trouble.

Here is where we are now. Watch the orange one. Watch the red, and that's how much of the entire state of Florida covered in tropical storm warnings, tropical storm winds. And then we could have winds here in Atlanta to 60 or 70 miles per hour after going through Macon, after going through Statesboro, after going through all those other little towns in South Georgia and then into the Carolinas.

I looked at one of the models, Jake, and I saw a wind gust in Asheville. The possibility of a 71 mile per hour wind gust in Asheville in the mountains that far away. What is that, 500 miles away from landfall and you're going to get almost hurricane force gusts? This is going to be a big event for all of the southeast. Yes, I know Florida, but for Georgia, the Carolinas, even toward Tennessee, and it's going to rain for a lot of the time, even into parts of Kentucky, there will be places that will have a foot of rain.

TAPPER: Chad Myers, thanks so much.

Back to Capitol Hill now, where we're following another major breaking story. The director of national intelligence is briefing senators on what the United States Government knows about hostile actors trying to influence the 2024 election, trying to influence your vote. CNN's Manu Raju is back with us.

Manu, what are the senators learning?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, they're actually senators from both parties are deeply concerned about what they're learning from top national security officials at this classifying briefing. In fact, Senator Mark Robert Warner, who chairs the Senate Intelligence Committee, just came out and briefed reporters about what he's there saying is foreign interference in this November's elections. He said Russia's goal is to undermine Harris, Iran's goal is to undermine Trump. And China is more focused on down ballot races. He says that is a challenge.

He believes the election integrity system that the United States has put in place can withstand some of these efforts to interfere in the elections, but there's still some deep concerns. What Warner said he's in particularly concerned is the moments after the November elections, to try to sow some distrust about the election results. He told reporters he is especially concerned about that 48 to 72 hour period after the election. He said, unlike in the past, this kind of misinformation will probably not end on election night. There is that concern that this misinformation that has occurred throughout this election season could intensify in October, in the run up.

But as you heard from what I just said about for Mark Warder, right there, concerned about what may happen afterwards, as well, this briefing, though, Jake, still ongoing as members trying to learn about efforts to try to safeguard the election, trying to prevent those adversaries from influencing voters in the run up to November.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju on Capitol Hill for us. Thanks so much.

An embarrassing report out today revealing new details about the moments right before that gunman in the first attempted assassination hit former President Trump in the ear during a rally in Butler, Pennsylvania. This was just in July. U.S. Senate subcommittee found several security failures, including one counter sniper who saw local law enforcement running with guns drawn shortly before the shots rang out but, quote, "did not alert former President Trump's protective detail to remove him from the stage." This is Trump just announced he's going to return to Butler, Pennsylvania for a rally in October, and the Secret Service is scrambling to respond to multiple breaking stories about other possible incidents. CNN's Paula Reid filed this report.

[17:05:42]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONANLD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Take a look what happened --

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Stunning Secret Service failures around the first Trump assassination attempt detailed in a newly released bipartisan Senate report, citing interviews with top Secret Service officials and local law enforcement who provided security at the July rally. The report concludes failures were foreseeable and preventable, and found that many of the problems identified remain unaddressed by the Secret Service.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): There was nobody in charge on the ground in Pennsylvania.

REID (voice-over): Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal heads a committee that worked on the report. He says change needs to come from the top.

BLUMENTHAL: The buck definitely stops with the head of the agency, the Department of Homeland Security, Alexander (ph) Mayorkas, has to take charge, clean house, replace this leadership and provide full disclosure.

REID (voice-over): Among the failures highlighted in the report, failure to set up visual barriers, lack of a plan for how to secure the building where the shooter took aim, and general chaos of communications around the shooter's movements. The United States Secret Service lead advanced planning agents could not answer questions about who specifically was responsible for determining the perimeter and who approved the designation of the perimeter. And at least two documents the Secret Service created detailing security for the event contained errors regarding the positions of the local counter snipers at the event. Multiple officials, including acting Secret Service Director Ronald Rowe, have acknowledged the issues that day.

RONALD ROWE, ACTING DIRECTOR. U.S. SECRETE SERVICE: It's important that we hold ourselves accountable for the failures of July 13, and that we use the lessons learned to make sure that we do not have another failure like this again.

REID (voice-over): As criticism of the response that day has been a rare area of bipartisan consensus.

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), RANKING MEMBER, HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: There were multiple failures of the Secret Service, and things have to be better, you know? We were -- the ink was not even dry on the report until it was a second assassination attempt.

REID (voice-over): Even as former President Trump continues to praise those responsible for his security.

TRUMP: I give Secret Service a hell of a lot of credit.

REID (voice-over): While criticizing the Justice Department, which has brought criminal cases against him over his handling of classified documents and efforts to subvert the 2020 election.

TRUMP: The upper echelon of the FBI is all talk while they focus on the sitting president's political opponents. That's what they're doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID (on camera): CNN has learned that several high ranking Secret Service officials plan to step down in the coming weeks. Sources tell us the retirements were planned before the July assassination attempt. These departures will leave a gap in the experience leadership of the service's top ranks at a critical time. Jake.

TAPPER: Paula, while I have you here, what can you tell us about the story that CNN has reported about Susan Crabtree broke earlier today that a U.S. Secret Service staffer is under investigation for an alleged sexual assault on a campaign staffer for the Harris campaign.

REID: Well, Jake, CNN has confirmed that a secret service agent is on administrative leave over alleged sexual misconduct against a staffer for Vice President Harris. The incident allegedly occurred during an advanced security planning trip for a visit to Wisconsin. CNN is working to confirm details about exactly what happened. The Office of the Vice President said they have a zero tolerance policy for sexual misconduct, but they will not be releasing any further information. A Secret Service spokesman said in a statement that their Office of Professional Responsibility is investigating this alleged incident.

TAPPER: All right. Paula Reid, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

One of the senators who attended that election security briefing is going to join us in just moments, he's going to share what he learned today and what you need to know as you decide who you're going to vote for. Plus, the new response from Mark Robinson, that Republican candidate for governor in North Carolina after that damning CNN report. Stick with us.

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[17:13:55]

TAPPER: Back to our 2024 lead on Capitol Hill, senators, Democrats and Republicans, just wrapped up a briefing with the director of National Intelligence, the director of the FBI and the director of the National Security Agency, among others. The focus protecting American elections from bad faith actors abroad. Republican Senator Mike Rounds of South Dakota was in the briefing. He sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Senator, thanks so much for joining us. Tell us what you learned.

SEN. MIKE ROUNDS (R-SD), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: We've had this same message now for the last two days in multiple briefings. What we're finding out is that we have multiple actors from outside of the United States that have been trying to influence our election, the same as they have in the past. They use propaganda to influence the American public, trying to get them to sway the election one way or another, but in most cases, more to cause problems with the election. To make less trust in the elections is that's their primary purpose here is just to make us question whether or not democracy works. The American people can't fall for this.

Our elections are safe. They are working. We do have safeguards in place, but they'd love to have the American public lose confidence in democracy.

TAPPER: In the last 24 hours, we've heard former President Trump repeatedly warn about the threat that Iran poses in this election. Take a listen.

[17:15:07]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I want to make that statement because we are under threat. I have been threatened very directly, and I appreciate the agencies that we've been meeting with, but we've been threatened very directly by Iran. And I think you have to let them know, because the best way to do it is through the Office of the President that you do any attacks on former presidents or candidates for president, your country gets blown to smithereens, as we say.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That, of course, is not just a threat about a threat to the election, that's also about a physical threat to President Trump himself. His campaign has been briefed by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence. What do you know about what he's talking about, President Trump there?

ROUNDS: Most of it is public knowledge. Now I feel comfortable talking about it. Iran has very clearly targeted American officials primarily in past administrations, but nonetheless, they have also threatened the president -- the former president of the United States. He is absolutely correct in the way that you take care of this. You send a very clear message to the Ayatollah and to his people that this simply will not be tolerated, and that if they ever want to have hell to pay, they should continue down in this course of action.

That message has got to be sent very, very clearly and directly.

TAPPER: Let's turn to the new Senate report out today that identified sweeping failures by the U.S. Secret Service ahead of that first attempt to assassinate former President Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania. These failures include not properly planning, poor communication at the actual rally, and not executing crucial decision making in the moment. If you can narrow it down, what is your primary concern from this report?

ROUNDS: It would appear that they did not have a chain of command with someone who was in charge, someone on the site that had been briefed beforehand, that had done his due diligence that was being communicated to by local law enforcement officers and by their own staff. It seems to me that they had a breakdown in communication and a real breakdown in the chain of command. We know that they probably needed some additional individuals there. We know that the drones that normally they would use, they wanted more. It was pretty clear that they'd asked for that and that that response was denied, and that they had someone on it who apparently did not have a lot of knowledge or understanding about how to use a drone, even though it was part of the plan to keep the former president safe.

So they've got a number of issues here that have got to be addressed. And if this is the way they're running the safety and the operations for other candidates, we've got real, serious problems in protecting all of our candidates. Then they've got to get to the bottom of this thing here, but they got to talk about that chain of command that clearly failed in this particular case.

TAPPER: We also learned today that a secret service agent is now on administrative leave as the agency investigates these alleged sexual misconduct allegations that he conducted against a staffer for the Kamala Harris campaign. There's an investigation underway. Have you been briefed at all about that? What have you learned?

ROUNDS: I have not been briefed on it. I'm aware of the news article, and I can just tell you that there has to be a zero tolerance for this type of behavior. The Secret Service has got to be beyond reproach. We need team members who can trust one another and who are capable of doing the job at all times. And even when they are off duty, they still have to have a higher standard that they need to hold themselves to.

I'm sure that there are other members of the Secret Service that are ashamed of what this individual did. What I want to know is, why did he get away with it this time? How did he get in that position in the first place, and why wasn't he singled out and eliminated a long time ago?

TAPPER: If you were president right now, what would you do to improve the U.S. Secret Service?

ROUNDS: You have to go to the top and you have to say, look, you have to tell us what your plan is now in order to bring this back up to speed. What are you going to do to -- with the resources necessary to see that this has not happened? And I want to know with every single candidate, tell me who it is that you got to be protecting, tell me what your plans are. Share with us the due diligence that you're doing, and then I would have somebody else following up with them, so that it's not just that person, but other people can take a look at it and find out whether or not there are better plans and whether or not the thought concepts behind their approach is actually working.

You have to -- look, they've got some really good people in the Secret Service. The former president has applauded their work in the past, the current president has, other officials have. This isn't everybody, but if you got a few bad apples, you have to weed them out, and then you have to provide them with an appropriate chain of command and the ability to have the due diligence to make sure that the plans that they are looking at have been second guessed and that they have reaffirmed that they're doing the right thing in each particular case.

TAPPER: Yes, it's a good reminder. There are so many excellent people at the U.S. Secret Service who are willing to literally lay down their lives for the individuals that they're entrusted with protecting. But a chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

[17:20:05]

ROUNDS: Yes.

TAPPER: Republican Senator Mike Rounds, thank you so much. Appreciate it, sir.

The man at the center of the bombshell report right here on the lead last week is trying to clean it up. Guess what Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson is saying now. That's next.

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TAPPER: And we are back with the politics lead. A defiant North Carolina Lieutenant Governor Mark Robinson, the Republican nominee for North Carolina governor is trying to quiet the uproar after that damning CNN report six days ago. You might recall CNN's KFile unearthed a slew of inflammatory, racist, bizarre comments that Robinson made years ago on a porn site. He called himself a Black Nazi, he express support for the return of slavery. So here is some of what Robinson has been saying about that CNN report on the campaign trail this week.

[17:25:14]

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LT. GOV. MARK ROBINSON, (R) NORTH CAROLINA GOV. CANDIDATE: This is what we have been focused on.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don't --

ROBINSON: We have not been focused on lies based on salacious stories from 15 years ago.

You folks want to focus on tabloid trash, and quite frankly, I am sick of it. And every time I get in front of you, I'm going to cut you off and tell you, you need to refocus yourself on the issues that matter to people. And 15-year-old sensational Lies don't matter to people.

They don't want to talk about what's going on right now. They want to talk about what possibly happened 15 years ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that's interesting, that last little thing that things that have possibly happened 15 years ago. So he was calling it lies. He's calling it lies. And then one point he said possibly happened 15 years ago. We should note that a lot of people who would otherwise have supported him have withdrawn their support, including every Republican governor in the surrounding states, his campaign manager, his deputy campaign manager, his finance director, et cetera. What do you think of this all?

MARC LOTTTER, CHIEF COMMUNICATIONS OFFICER, AMERICA FIRST POLICY INSTITUTE: Well, his name's on the ballot. There's nothing that can be done about that. So he's got one of two ways to go. Apologize, try to move on. Be defiant and try to move on. I think he's obviously tracing the defiant mode and hoping that it passes. But he was already trailing before this even broke, and so it's very difficult to come back from.

TAPPER: What did you make of the things that possibly happened 15 years ago?

ALENCIA JOHNSON, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, there's no admission that he didn't say though. I mean, like this is what the Republican Party first of all, thinks of black men. They run candidates like this and like Herschel Walker. And also, it's very interesting this double standard where Republican Party didn't get rid of Donald Trump in 2016 when those tapes came out, when he was found liable for sexual assault and the list goes on and on and on, but oh my goodness, Mark Robinson is now where they draw the line when, quite frankly, the leader of the party is, I think, just as egregious. And so, it's really interesting that they're willing to throw away the governor -- the lieutenant governor, in this race, when, quite frankly, you know, North Carolina now is more in play with --

LOTTER: Oh, absolutely not. Come on now. Political coattails don't work that way. Donald Trump --

TAPPER: You mean, it's not for the presidential race?

LOTTER: Right. No. Donald Trump is -- provides coattails. He doesn't ride with them. Mark Robinson was down before that, and he's still going to be down.

JOHNSON: No, but he was your candidate, right? And he spoke at the RNC. You touted him out like this is our Republican Party.

LOTTER: No, this is not going to -- this is not going to put North Carolina in play for the president.

JOHNSON: No, I actually think so. We'll see what will happen. It will be closer than I think you all wanted it to be.

LOTTER: Donald Trump won the state twice with a Democrat running and winning the governor. I don't think this is going to change.

JOHNSON: Sure. That's the different way. That's a different race.

TAPPER: Shira, the current governor of North Carolina, Democrat Roy Cooper, has had an interesting response talking about Robinson's position on climate change and some of the outrageous things he said related to that. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ROY COOPER, (D) NORTH CAROLINA: Mark Robinson has said, in talking about climate change, which he denies that it exists, he said that people working on climate change in his administration, he would put in chains, is what he said about that. So, look, you have to find a way forward.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In Chains, kind of an allusion to the pro slavery sentiments that Mr. Robinson apparently posted on a porn website, as one does.

SHIRA STEIN. WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, SAN FRANCISCO CHRONICLE: Yes, this story is just so strange. The question that I came back to when this all came out was, did Governor Cooper have an inkling of what was going on? He pulled himself out of the vice presidential race for Vice President Harris for her running mate, wondering how much did he know or did he just think have these concerns about the running of North Carolina? But this is just a wild story, generally.

And I mean, the -- I saw some reporting today that half of his staff at the Lieutenant Governor's office has resigned. I don't --

TAPPER: Oh, not just campaign staff.

STEIN: That's I saw some reporting about that this morning, and I think just going to continue. I don't know how he can keep going on if he keeps bleeding staff and bleeding money and bleeding Republican support.

JOHNSON: I mean, but there's nothing they can really do. He's -- I'm going to agree with you on this, he's on the ballot. Like, there's -- like, nothing else they could do.

LOTTER: (Inaudible) last week.

JOHNSON: So. TAPPER: Yes. So speaking of outrageous comments, Congressman Clay Higgins of Louisiana tweeted -- there was an article about how a Haitian group in Springfield, Ohio was filing criminal charges against Trump and Vance for their comments, in their view, put their community at risk, these fake stories about eating cats and dogs. So, Congressman Higgins tweeted, "Lol, these Haitians are wild, eating pets, Voodoo, nastiest country in the Western Hemisphere, cults, slapstick gangsters, but damned if they don't feel all sophisticated now filing charges against our president and VP. All these thugs better get their mind right and their ass out of our country before January 20th."

Speaker Johnson, Republican Speaker Johnson, was asked about this tweet earlier today.

[17:30:14]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), HOUSE SPEAKER: Well, look, he was approached on the floor by colleagues who said that was offensive. He went to the back. I just talked to him about it. He said he went to the back and he prayed about it and he regretted it, and he pulled the post down. That's what you want the gentleman to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Thoughts?

JOHNSON: Well, when is the Republican Party going to root out all the xenophobia and the racism that is spewing from a lot of their elected officials? But the interesting thing is, Johnson is going after this congressman, but this all started with Donald Trump, and Republicans are sticking beside him, even the Republican governor of Ohio, as he is denouncing these comments. He's still talking in his op-ed.

TAPPER: Are you talking about the dog eating? Yes.

A. JOHNSON: Yes. he's still talking about supporting Donald Trump, who is the reason that these children, these babies, are scared of going to school, because these bomb threats of these egregious takes. And so I just don't understand the double standard that the Republican Party has to hold certain members of their party accountable when it's the person, Donald Trump, who is the one pouring gasoline on the fire?

TAPPER: Well, they can control Congressman Higgins. I mean, that's -- that's a --

A. JOHNSON: And they can't win without Donald Trump, right?

TAPPER: And Donald want -- Trump is the number one vote getter in the Republican Party and possibly the next President of the United States. Your thoughts on Mr. Higgins?

MARC LOTTER, FORMER DIRECTOR STRATEGIC COMMUNICATIONS, 2020 TRUMP CAMPAIGN: Well, this is why I -- I would say to all politicians, don't tweet yourselves. Have staff -- have professional staff do.

TAPPER: Everybody except for Donald Trump.

LOTTER: Have -- have someone tweet on your behalf. Take it down. And it's good that he did that, and he'll learn that lesson.

STEIN: Yes, this reminds me of the days of 2016 when reporters would wake up at 4:00 a.m. in the morning, like jolt out of bed. Oh God, what did President Trump tweet today. So or I guess then who's still a candidate. But even when he became president, it was still on and on and on. It sort of feels the same. I don't love though we're having to have conversations about what some politician said on Twitter, some crazy thing.

TAPPER: It's pretty hid -- hideously racist. I'm glad it's down, but I mean, it was said. In the I guess this panel is Republicans behaving badly. Republican Congressman Anthony D'Esposito, also under fire. A "New York Times" report said that he might have violated ethics rule -- ethics rules by hiring not only his lover, allegedly, but the daughter of his fiance.

Today, the congressman told CNN's Manu Raju that neither relationship that -- that putting any -- any of the either of these people on staff, neither of them violated any ethics. Although yesterday, when he was asked if he had hired these people, he said, Anthony, absolutely not. Again, very curious first, absolutely not the next day, yes, but it didn't violate ethics rules.

STEIN: Yes. I -- I don't think he's figured out the right way to handle this yet. I think we may end up seeing this going, maybe not the exact same path, but he was part of the -- the ousting of George Santos. I don't think we'll go that far, but we could see some -- some repercussions from this -- from this action. I hope -- I hopefully we do, because if -- if that is against how the ethics rules, it's not OK.

TAPPER: Thanks. One and all, appreciate it.

Last night in Missouri, a man was executed despite the prosecutor's office arguing that his conviction should be thrown out. Coming up, we're going to look into what do we know? What are the facts about this case? And -- and what do they raise in terms of questions about our legal system? Stay here.

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[17:37:26]

TAPPER: The state of Missouri, executed a man named Marcellus Williams last night despite two major factors. One, the prosecutor wanted his conviction overturned. Two, the family of the victim in the case did not want the execution to go forward. There were serious questions about the integrity of the trial. But once that prosecutorial train of the legal system starts moving, it's very difficult to stop.

I want to tell you right now a -- a little bit about why there were so many reasons to question what the state of Missouri just did. It starts, of course, with a horrible crime the August 11th, 1998 murder of a woman in suburban St. Louis, a woman named Felicia Gayle. She was stabbed 43 times with a butcher knife during a burglary of her home. Gayle was only 42 years old. She was a social worker, and she was a former journalist with the St. Louis Post Dispatch.

Now, Marcellus Williams was convicted of first degree murder in 2001 based on the testimony of his girlfriend at the time, who said that she saw the victim's purse and laptop in his car, and the testimony of his cellmate, who testified that Williams admitted to the killing. Williams' defense attorneys argued that both witnesses were unreliable and had other motives, including reward money.

There was no forensic evidence linking Marcellus Williams to the horrific crime. And his DNA was not found on the murder weapon. Since his conviction, questions have been raised about whether a trial prosecutor wrongfully excluded a potential juror who was black, and whether that was done for racial reasons. But the state denied that in a recent hearing.

On Monday of this week, the Missouri Supreme Court rejected a request to cancel the execution so that a lower court could review -- review this. There were also questions about evidence. The prosecuting Attorney's Office, which handled the trial, argued that DNA testing of the murder weapon could actually exclude Williams as Gayle's killer.

They called for the state to vacate his conviction based on that but that argument unraveled last month after new DNA testing revealed that the murder weapon had been mishandled by prosecutors before the trial, and that meant that the evidence was contaminated. The evidence meant to exonerate Williams. Missouri denied that appeal, saying that standards for handling evidence were different back in 2001.

Without DNA evidence pointing to another suspect or exonerating him, there was a new compromise on the table, Marcellus Williams would enter a no contest plea. Instead of saying he didn't do it, he would say no contest in exchange for a new sentence of life in prison. So his life would be spared, but he would stay in prison. The victim's family signed off on that. But it was blocked by the Missouri Supreme Court.

[17:40:15]

Then yesterday, as you recall when we -- if you watched the show yesterday, just one day after the Missouri Supreme Court and the governor of Missouri refused to grant a state of execution, the U.S. Supreme Court also refused to intervene. I was speaking live on air to one of Marcellus Williams' attorneys as we learned that her client was definitely going to be put to death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRICIA ROJO BUSHNELL, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MIDWEST INNOCENCE PROJECT: We spend months and months and how much sort of money just trying to get back into court when, if they just heard them, if they just looked at the evidence that was there, we could avoid this in the first place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It is possible that Marcellus Williams was -- was guilty of this hor -- horrible crime. I'm not here to tell you that I know for certain what happened. But I am here to ask you this, shouldn't we as a society be 100 percent sure that all legitimate questions have been answered before we, as a society, inject poison into the bloodstream of an American citizen and stop his heart from beating.

Real questions remained about Marcellus Williams guilt and about the integrity of his trial. You know, we, as a society, tend to defer to prosecutors and to law enforcement, those whose mission is to try to keep us safe, perhaps understandably so. But if you think our legal system is infallible, if you think our legal system always arrives at justice, then you are not watching the same legal system that we are.

We have some big breaking news for you on a story that we follow very closely here on The Lead, a federal judge has approved a massive $600 million class action settlement in last year's disastrous train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio, this crash sent more than a million pounds of hazardous chemicals into the soil, water and air, leading to mass evacuations and countless health problems among residents.

Settlement checks from Norfolk Southern Railroad should be mailed out before the end of the year, about 55,000 claims were filed in total. The majority of residents of East Palestine supported this deal, according to attorneys. Those who did object say it's too soon to settle without knowing what the potential long, lasting health impacts will be.

Coming up, in a stunning new interview, a former Republican nominee for president weighs in on the potential of another Trump presidency, that's next.

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[17:46:50]

TAPPER: In a stunning new interview in "The Atlantic," we find Senator Mitt Romney bracing, bracing for another Trump presidency. In the new afterword of the book, "Romney: A Reckoning" the author McKay Coppins writes, Romney knew that he was likely to appear on any enemies list kept by the former president, and he'd privately mused to friends that it might be time for him and Ann, his wife, to consider moving abroad.

Joining me now is McKay Coppins, a former Republican presidential candidate, says he may need to re -- move abroad if -- if Trump wins, because he might be prosecuted, or his family might be prosecuted. How -- how tongue in cheek is it?

MCKAY COPPINS, AUTHOR, "ROMNEY: A RECKONING": Yes, I mean, I -- I should say up front that this is not something that Mitt Romney wanted to talk about. You know, for this book, I talked to him for two years. We talked about a lot of stuff. He was usually very candid with me. When I came to him to interview him for this due afterward in the paperback, I -- I asked him, because I had heard from people in his circle that he was really worried about what a Trump reelection would be for him and his family.

And I asked him about it, and he -- he didn't want to go there at first. And I think it's in part because he didn't want to set himself up as a martyr. I think he also has understandable security concerns about talking about this stuff too much in public. But once I did get him talking, it was clear that he had thought through the ramifications of a president being reelected who has said that he will use the office to visit retribution, revenge on his political enemies.

And Mitt Romney knows that he is would be on that enemies list. He -- he's worried about protecting his family. He -- he said, you know, I have 25 grandkids.

TAPPER: Yes.

COPPINS: How do you protect 25 grandkids?

TAPPER: Right.

COPPINS: It's a -- it's a real concern. And I think it's a pretty stark reminder of where we are as a country, that the 2012 Republican presidential nominee is so worried afraid about what it would mean for his personal safety, his family safety, if the current Republican nominee wins.

TAPPER: Well, think about the safety of Donald Trump's own vice president.

COPPINS: Yes.

TAPPER: Mike Pence.

COPPINS: Exactly.

TAPPER: Not exactly -- not -- who hasn't endorsed Donald Trump either. So when Romney was asked about this election, you write quote, still throwing his support behind a president whose policies he'd spent decades fighting against was a difficult thing to do. He told me he wasn't ruling it out. What do you think he's like, I -- I know that this, you don't know and like use to it, but in your gut, how do you think he's going to vote for president?

COPPINS: Oh, it's a -- it's a good question. I mean, look, when I interviewed him, it was in the spring, Joe Biden was still the Democratic nominee. He actually has a good relationship with Biden. They've become friends. I write about this in the book. He told me he wasn't ruling out at that point endorsing Joe Biden, but he said, you know, the problem is so many of Joe Biden's policies drive me crazy, and I don't want to be seen as endorsing those policies.

I haven't gotten to talk to him about Kamala Harris on the record. He's kind of gone quiet as you know. He's not really giving a lot of interviews anymore. TAPPER: We're interviewing a guy who talked to Mitt Romney.

COPPINS: And I'm -- I'm happy to be here.

TAPPER: You're like, you -- it's like a Bigfoot sighting in the wild.

COPPINS: I, you know, I think that, if I was, you know, the last two elections, he's written his wife's name in on -- on the -- on the ballot. Is it possible that he votes for the Democrat? It -- I think it's possible. I don't know if we would hear about it publicly. But he also believes, and I think this is important context. He does not think his endorsement would make a difference.

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TAPPER: Yes.

COPPINS: He thinks he is so alienated the Republican voters out there that his -- his decision to endorse Kamala Harris would make no meaningful difference.

TAPPER: We don't know that that's true. I mean, I don't -- I wouldn't tell him what to do one way or the other, but I mean, Dick Cheney and Liz Cheney have endorsed Kamala Harris, essentially, and you could argue there farther to the right.

COPPINS: Sure.

TAPPER: And neither one of them is in office, and Mitt Romney is.

COPPINS: You know, one question that I -- I have, and I think I'm going to do some more reporting on this, is whether Mitt Romney or other Republicans like him, have heard from the Harris camp. You know, my -- my impression is that he is not, at least, you know months ago, when we talked that the Democratic campaign wasn't knocking down his door asking for an endorsement. Maybe that's changed, and -- and -- and I'll look into it. But I would be curious if Kamala Harris would welcome that endorsement from Mitt Romney.

TAPPER: Interesting. So Romney says in this afterward that he is looking forward to a post Trump era. Who leads that party? Who leads the post? Let -- let's assume, just for the sake of argument, and I -- I'm not saying I think this is what's going to happen. Let's say Donald Trump loses and actually decides to go softly into that good night. Who leads the Republican Party after that?

COPPINS: No. I don't think we have any idea. The -- the question that people like Mitt Romney have is, does the fever break, to use an overused cliche in Washington these days, when Trump finally does --

TAPPER: These days, Obama was talking about --

COPPINS: That's right. That's right.

TAPPER: -- because of Mitt Romney. COPPINS: That's right. The Tea Party, yes, yes. But, no, but look, like, I -- I think that Mitt Romney is hopeful that if Trump goes away, a lot of the kind of personality cult stuff in the Republican Party will go away with it, that a lot of the -- the outrageous defenses of everything that Trump does and says that will at least go away. But the Republican Party is also ideologically transformed under Trump.

TAPPER: Yes. They like tariffs now.

COPPINS: That's right. It's more isolationist.

TAPPER: Yes.

COPPINS: It's more nationalistic. It's more populous. They're not very concerned about the size and scope of government anymore. That's the stuff that brought Mitt Romney to the Republican Party.

TAPPER: Right.

COPPINS: And, you know, I think that he and Republicans like him are going to have a hard time if that ideological transformation stays in place after Trump.

TAPPER: I mean, maybe Cheney and Romney and the others can form a new conservative party.

COPPINS: I think Mitt Romney would be very interested in that.

TAPPER: All right. McKay Coppins, great stuff. Thank you so much. Always good to have you on the show.

Curious about the growing trend of Americans drinking less alcohol. Dr. Sanjay Gupta answers your questions about that topic. Don't go anywhere.

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TAPPER: And we're back with our on call series. And our Health Lead, a growing number of Americans are looking to cut back on their alcohol consumption and are turning to non-alcoholic or zero proof drinks. You submitted your questions about this movement to CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and he's back with some answers.

So Sanjay a lot of viewers all had concerns about children and younger adults consuming these zero proof drinks. Eileen wrote, quote, it's almost like they're practice drinks for young people until they can do the real thing, unquote. What are the concerns about minors having access to these types of beverages?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So I think there's two -- two major concerns here. First of all, non-alcoholic drinks don't necessarily mean no alcohol in the drink. That -- that may surprise people, but you take this, for example, Athletic Brewing, it's considered a non-alcoholic drink, but if you read the label, you'll find it can have up to 0.5 percent alcohol. So if you're trying to really be abstinent or a young person, you got to be careful. Read those labels.

A little different than, for example, zero proof alcohol, zero -- zero proof drinks here, this has no alcohol in it whatsoever. So read those labels. But, you know, it's interesting, this -- this notion of priming. Jake, this surprised me, but in Japan, 20 to 30 percent of school aged children are drinking these low or no alcohol drinks now.

And we find that they are more likely to drink when they get older. In Australia, there's a lot of non-alcoholic drinks also being consumed by school aged children. They're two and a half times more likely to drink versus those who don't drink those drinks when they get older. So there is this notion of priming that goes on. It's a -- it's a fair -- fair point, fair question.

TAPPER: Lisa writes quote, I turned 60 recently, and have noticed that when I drink, I lose my balance and get tired more quickly, even though I haven't drank that much. What's going on? Does alcohol hit us harder as we age?

GUPTA: The short answer is yes, and being closer in age to Lisa now myself, I -- I think there's three things that are going on here. First of all, your muscle mass goes down, therefore your metabolism of alcohol goes down, your liver, which -- which actually processes the alcohol, the -- the liver function starts to decrease a bit as you get older. And there -- there may be certain medications that people take as they get older, they could also interact with alcohol.

So keep those things in mind. It can be stronger and it can seemingly last longer. You know, one -- one thing, Jake, falls are a big concern for people as they get older, and 65 percent of fatal falls are associated with alcohol. So you know, beware, as you get older, it can hit you a bit harder.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much for that helpful advice.

We have a very happy note to close out our show today. You might remember C.J. Rice. Viewers of this program have been hearing about his stories for years. He's a graduate. You might remember, C.J. spent more than a dozen years in prison for a crime he physically could not have committed that my dad, C.J.'s pediatrician testified, C.J. could physically have not committed at the time.

That crime, that shooting, was actually on this day in 2011. In any case, C.J., after 12 years in prison for a crime he did not commit, is a free man. And today, this morning, he graduated from Georgetown University's paralegal program. C.J. has dreams of helping other people that have experienced the injustice of our legal system.

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We're so proud of C.J. at this show. I can't even explain it in words. Our deepest congratulations to CJ, his family and the wonderful people at Georgetown who have that wonderful program, 13 people graduated from that program today.

The News continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. I'll see you tomorrow.