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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Joins Georgia Governor Kemp To Discuss Hurricane Relief; Biden Takes Questions For First Time Ever In Briefing Room; Obama Kicks Off Battleground Blitz For Harris Next Week; Harris, Trump Fight For Votes In Battleground Michigan. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired October 04, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And right now, the recent poll came up, we're up seven.

[16:00:01]

So I think were pretty far up and we seem to be going up and she seems to be going down. So I hope we're going to keep it that way.

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you very much. I appreciate it. Thank you.

BORIS SANCHEZ, CNN HOST: Former President Donald Trump there answering questions from reporters in Evans, Georgia, making a number of false statements about a quote, terrible response from the federal government, making accusations that money was misspent on the response, also responding to comments for President Biden?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: Yes, so FEMA has put out a response to this not exactly to what he was saying, but because he has said in the past. No money they say is being diverted from disaster response needs. So that is just a quick fact check there.

SANCHEZ: We'll turn it over to THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER. Thanks so much for joining us today, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: My pleasure. Have a great weekend.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And you just heard former President Donald Trump making remarks in Evans, Georgia, after listening to a briefing on the damage caused by Hurricane Helene.

Let's go to CNN's Steve Contorno. He's in Fayetteville, North Carolina, where Trump is going to head later tonight for a town hall.

And, Steve, what do you make of what we just heard from Trump in Georgia.

STEVE CONTORNO, CNN REPORTER: Well, Donald Trump wasted little time politicizing this tragedy even further than he already has, and he criticized the White House for what he said was a terrible response. And he said that -- well, he went on to boast about his own performance during previous hurricanes when he was president. He said -- he reminded people that there is an election coming in this, in the state where it's obviously very, very close, and that he promised that if he is elected, he is very committed to this state. That was his direct quote.

He also at one point said, I'm not thinking about voters. I'm thinking about lives, but obviously he was also plugging what he would do as president if he were elected.

So notable as well that Brian Kemp, the governor of the state, spoke right before Donald Trump, and he did not mention any issues that he has had with the Biden administration or FEMA's response and that has been sort of a thread line through Donald Trumps criticism of the Biden administration response, the Harris-Biden administration, as he puts it, that many local officials, many state officials have said so far that the response has been adequate, that they have received what they have asked for, that the emergency declarations were made early then advance of the storm, and that they have had a open line of communication with the Biden administration.

But Donald Trump appearing in a swing state that has been affected by this storm to immense proportions, making it known that he believes that the Harris and Biden team has done a terrible job at the end, terrible was the word he used -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Steve Contorno in Fayetteville, North Carolina, thanks to you.

In the politics lead, a surprise at the White House earlier today. President Biden stunning reporters this afternoon, showing up unannounced at a White House press briefing. This is the very first time he's ever taken this podium in his presidency. Mr. Biden touting today's jobs report and the state of the economy.

He then took questions on a slew of topics including the election, which is now just over four weeks away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES: I'm confident it would be free and fair. I don't know whether it'll be peaceful. Things that Trump has said, and the things that he said last time out when he didn't like the outcome of the election were very dangerous. If you notice, I noticed that as vice presidential Republican candidate did not say he'd accept the outcome of the election. Have you been accepted outcome of the last election?

So I am -- I am concerned about what they're going to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN senior White House correspondent Kayla Tausche joins us now.

Kayla, what have you learned about what led to this surprise appearance? I guess there was a critical piece that appeared in "Axios" earlier today talking about how absent President Biden and Mrs. Biden have been from the public stage. Was that part of what happened?

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly that had to have been taken into custody consideration when his press team was looking at the days news and how they're planning to respond to some of these questions and certainly putting the president out there himself would have seemed to have knocked down any questions that they would have gotten about his schedule and his whereabouts for the day because he had no public events on his schedule today.

But there's also the rare double header of good news today and no president ever wants to be the face of bad news which President Biden often has been in his term, whether its inflation in the cost of living or more recently the conflicts in Ukraine and the war simmering in the Middle East.

But today, the president had a very surprisingly strong jobs number to talk about, as well as a temporary pause in dockworkers strike. For 90 days, as dockworkers will go back to work up, halting any supply chain snarls and advance of the election as they work out a deal that will work for both parties.

But President Biden was also asked about those jobs numbers which were exceedingly positive compared to what economists had expected and bristled when asked about a suggestion by Florida Senator Marco Rubio that the job -- the jobs numbers have been doctored. Here's how Biden responded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: If you notice, anything the MAGA Republicans don't like, they call fake. The job numbers are the job numbers are. They're real. They're sincere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: But he also took several questions on the Middle East where he said that he doesn't believe that the Israelis have decided how and when to respond to the Iran missile strike from earlier this week, he said he expects to talk to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu when that conclusion is drawn. He suggested that there been no better friend to Israel than his administration and that as he's thinking about it, even though he seemed to leave the door open to the Israelis, striking Iran's oil deserves. He said that if he were them, he would look at different alternatives.

But also issuing that warning, Jake, that you mentioned in the introduction to President Trump about the peaceful transfer of power. You know, often when -- when members of the administration field questions about the election from that podium, they deflect and cite the hatch act and are unwilling to engage in those lines of questioning. But, clearly, President Biden is still worried that history will repeat itself, which was one of the major themes when he was the candidate at the top of the ticket.

TAPPER: All right. Kayla Tausche. Thanks so much.

Let's get into this with the panel.

You know, one of the most interesting things about this appearance today is I heard from the anchor, one of the anchors before me, Boris Sanchez, who says that they were about o go to Michigan, where Vice President Harris was going to speak live, trying to shore up support among union members, talking about how the longshoremen strike has been avoided and all the rest, lots of work to be done with working class voters in Michigan for Vice President Harris.

But instead of cutting away to Vice President Harris talking to voters in Michigan, they instead cut to the White House briefing to cover President Biden speaking. I mean, are they not even communicating?

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL CONSTITUTION: Yeah. I mean, to me, it indicates that there wasn't a lot of coordination today on Biden, probably making an 11th hour decision to go into the press briefing, which was pretty unprecedented as you've noted, and it didn't matter --

TAPPER: Not among presidents, among -- for him. For him, yes.

(CROSSTALK)

MITCHELL: Yeah.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. But I mean, I don't think anyone was anticipating it, even President Biden, quite frankly, when he woke up this morning, it seems that when that decision was made perhaps on a dime, either they didn't think to notify the vice president or maybe those lines of communication weren't as open to get that message to her quickly, and it seems like she just went ahead with her campaign stop as scheduled, perhaps if there was more coordination, she might have held back for 15 or 20 more minutes. So that they didn't overlap.

So again, it just looks like they weren't talking on today. Don't want to read too much into it, but at least today.

FINNEY: I don't think it's that deep on things, that I really don't think it's that deep because as we all know, those events, we're starting, we're not starting. It's five minutes. It's two minutes. It's ten minutes.

And the president just decided, I'm going to go into the briefing room. I've got good news to talk about and I'm going to talk and I think they probably recognized that we were going to cover her speech, will cover it probably the one this evening that'll probably be pretty similar. So I don't think it was that deep and I think it was personally it was nice to look up and see President Biden and him talking about a positive jobs report and again, seeing the economy moving in the right direction.

That is good news and that is good news she could have also talked about in that speech.

MATT GORMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, TIM SCOTT PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I mean, they're pretty insular. It's no secret. The Biden team is in pretty been insular for a while now, and they can also move quickly when they want to. We saw this with the Hur report, right? He hasn't been out talking to the press for months. All of a sudden, three hours the Hur report, he's in the Oval Office taking questions, right?

And I also think this was a way of proverbial proof of political life, a little baffling. The Alex Thompson report, 43 days out of the last 75, no public events, coming on the heels of spending a lot of time in Rehoboth when these storms are happening and the optics of that, along with also coming back to the White House last night saying what storm zone and saying everybody's very happy there.

So he needed to kind of get out on its front foot a little bit. I think this is what you saw there.

TAPPER: So Biden's big headline is that he said he was confident the election will be free and fair, but he didn't know if it would be peaceful.

Obviously, he has reason to wonder if it will be peaceful given what happened on January 6 and the fact that Trump is continuing to cast doubt about that election, and this election but pretty still a pretty striking thing.

MITCHELL: Yeah.

[16:10:00]

And I think he's articulating, A, what has been a main message from when he was running for reelection and a main message of his throughout the year that you just cant trust that Trump won't attempt to overturn the election. And quite frankly, things that Trump continues to stay cast.

You don't need Biden to say it. You can hear Trump in his own words create doubt about the integrity of our elections.

TAPPER: Everyone, stick around. We got a lot more to talk about, and we're going to have more from Biden in the briefing room. What he said about Israel's pending retaliation on Iran.

Also ahead, the uphill battle for Vice President Harris, as she makes a play from Michigan. We're going to go inside the numbers and talk to a longtime Democratic strategist, James Carville. But what's at stake in that state.

Plus, the high-profile help she'll be getting soon on the campaign trail from former President Barack Obama.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our 2024 lead, with 32 days to go, Democrats are unleashing arguably their biggest heavyweight and chief surrogate, former President Barack Obama. Obama is set to join the campaign sprint for Vice President Kamala Harris and kick a 27-day battleground blitz across America.

Our Tom Foreman has the details.

[16:15:00]

Tom, where's he going to go first?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: To your home state.

TAPPER: Well, I would assume so. Yes.

FOREMAN: Which Biden won by 80,000 votes a little more in 2020. And he's hoping you can make the same thing happen for Kamala Harris.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on camera): President Barack Obama, is on a mission to make sure his successor, former President Donald Trump does not make a return to the White House.

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: We do not need four more years of bluster and bumbling and chaos. We have seen that movie before, and we all know that the sequel is usually worse.

FOREMAN: Kamala Harris backed Obama early in his historic bids for the presidency and for reelection.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES & 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: President Obama will fight for working families.

FOREMAN: Now fighting for her, he will be storming battleground states starting in Pennsylvania, making good on the pledge he and former First Lady Michelle Obama offered just days after Harris became the da facto nominee.

OBAMA: Michelle and I couldn't be prouder to endorse you and to do everything we can to get you through this election and into the Oval Office.

HARRIS: Oh my goodness.

FOREMAN: Obama is a triple threat, task with rousing complacent Democrats to show up and vote, continuing to raise funds for the home stretch of the campaign and recording ads for other down ballot Democrats, like U.S. Senate candidate Elissa Slotkin in Michigan, who is battling it out with Republican Mike Rogers.

OBAMA: Elissa is a true public servant who has dedicated her career to serving the American people, no matter who is in the White House.

FOREMAN: Obama's push right up to Election Day could be very consequential, but not just for one side.

DANA MILBANK, AUTHOR, "FOOLS ON THE HILL": He really drive turnout among Democrats, but there's a flip side. He also really drives turnout among Republicans. FOREMAN: The former president fully aware of that, has pushed his

party's outreach to non-Democrats all along.

OBAMA: If we want to win over those who aren't yet ready to support our candidates, we need to listen to their concerns.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on camera): When you look at that to do lists, though, Jake, I have to say I think the number one concern -- the number one thought out there is that rousing of Democrats and anyone in the middle saying, you got to show up, remember the message from Harris from the beginning has been and were still the underdogs.

They want to keep playing that way, even with Barack Obama on the trail.

TAPPER: They are the underdogs.

FOREMAN: Yeah, it's a challenge for them, but they want to remind people of that. They want their voters to show up and not have any doubt of I can sit home like, no, you got to get out there.

And as you point out, not only in the Democratic Party in American politics right now early figures that are bigger than Barack Obama in terms of exciting the public. Question is, what are the results.

TAPPER: Yeah, interesting.

All right, Tom Foreman, thanks so much. Appreciate it. That unannounced briefing today, President Biden weighed in on Israel's likely retaliation against Iran. Donald Trump's former national security adviser John Bolton we'll be here. We'll talk to him about the recent escalation and what might be next to come.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:22:24]

TAPPER: Our world lead also begins with something else President Biden said during this afternoon surprise appearance and the White House briefing room, when asked about Israel's possible retaliation for Iran's missile attacks on Tuesday, prison Biden told reporters that Israel is not going to make a decision immediately. He also cautioned to the Israelis against striking Iran's oil fields.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: The Israelis have not concluded how -- what they're going to do in terms of a strike. That's under discussion I think there are if I were in their shoes, I'd be thinking about other alternatives than striking oil fields.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: Let's discuss this further with John Bolton, the former national security advisor during the part of the Trump administration.

Thanks so much for joining us.

So, President Biden was asked the same question yesterday and he his offhand answer yesterday sent global oil prices up and stock the stock market down. Let's play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Would you support Israel striking Iran's oil facilities, sir?

BIDEN: We're discussing that. I think -- I think that would be a little -- anyway.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPER: What he said now is clear. He doesn't want them to. He's suggesting that they should consider other alternatives.

What do you think?

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: I think the president making a huge mistake talking about any of Israel's possible options.

Let's be clear Iran is an enemy of the United States. It's been a state sponsor of terrorism since Ronald Reagan's administration. It's pursuing deliverable nuclear weapons which could threaten us, Israel, and many of our other allies. It has armed and equipped units that have gone after Americans in Iraq for decades. It's currently trying to assassinate American citizens on our territory. Iran is an enemy of the United States. Israel is an ally of the United States.

And what the president's doing is publicly telling an enemy what he thinks an ally should do. He should put a sock in it and stop talking about it. He may have his opinions on what Israel's response to the ballistic missile attack from Iran should be, but it should be a communication among allies.

There's one explanation for this, and that's to put pressure on Israel and to try and create an echo chamber, ala, the Obama administration that he thinks can force Israel into action. I don't think that's going to happen.

When Israel took out Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, there was a poll in Israel that asked Israelis, do you think Israel should have consulted with the United States before killing Nasrallah, 83 percent said no.

[16:25:02]

And I think that's what Netanyahu is going to do. I don't know what his decision will be, but I don't think he's going to listen to Joe Biden.

TAPPER: What do you think Israel should do?

BOLTON: I think it should take out Iran's nuclear weapons program. I think the United States should assist them. This is the moment to do it. This is the threat, the real existential threat to Israel. It's a small country.

Six, 8, 10 nuclear weapons, there won't be an Israel and nobody can say with confidence, when Iran will have that capability, when the next ballistic missile coming from Iran toward Israel will have a nuclear weapon under the nose cone.

TAPPER: Biden also was asked if he thinks Netanyahu has not agreed to any diplomatic solutions because he wants to, because Netanyahu wants to influence the U.S. presidential election. Here's what Biden had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BIDEN: No administration has helped Israel more than I have. None. None. None. And I think Bibi should remember that. Whether he's trying to influence the election, I don't know, but I'm not counting on that.

(END VIDEO CLIUP)

TAPPER: What do you think?

BOLTON: I think the president should put two socks in. This is -- this is the kind of conversation that you'd have about an adversary. It's the kind of conversation John Kennedy had when he suggested Ngo Dinh Diem maybe ought to look around to see what might happen to him that led do a coup in Saigon.

You know, if you treat adversaries that way, that's one thing. But to do this to an ally is just incomprehensible to me unless its part of that effort to pressure Israel, keep the story off the front page, keep American oil prices down, that's not thinking strategically in America's interests. It's thinking in Joe Biden's party's political interest.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about the 2024 elections just over a month away, you are a member of the Bush administration before you remember the Trump administration.

BOLTON: Two Bush administrations.

TAPPER: Two Bush administrations. And I -- George W. Bush has not endorsed in this election. His Vice President Dick Cheney has. He's endorsed Kamala Harris. Liz Cheney has endorsed Kamala Harris. Paul Ryan, and Mitt Romney have not endorsed.

What's going on? I mean, it seems like the part of the Republican Party from which you come, traditional Republican, conservative, strong foreign policy, et cetera is not behind Donald Trump. And some members, including, I mean, Dick Cheney is a pretty conservative guy, are supporting Kamala Harris because they you think Donald Trump poses such a threat to democracy.

BOLTON: Yeah, I don't agree with that. I think Donald Trump's going to cause enormous harm in a second term but he's not an existential threat. That overstates it. It's better, you don't want to understate it. You want to get an accurately.

I'd say this generally, there a lot of Republicans that don't like Donald Trump one little bit, and what they're going to do about it falls into three categories, some like Dick and Liz, although we haven't heard from Lynne, Dick's wife, who is a strong minded woman. I'm kind of curious what she's --

TAPPER: She might actually even be more conservative than Dick.

BOLTON: Could be.

TAPPER: Yeah.

BOLTON: Some are going to vote for Harris as a matter of conscience, I respect that. Some of us and I'm one of them are going to write in somebody. That's a matter of conscience, too.

And a lot of people are going to grit their teeth and unwillingly vote for Donald Trump because they think Harris is a greater threat to the country than Trump is. That's a matter of conscience, too.

All the people who are criticizing the decisions people make should recognize that this really is hard decision for a lot of people. And grant them that they're doing it on the basis of conscience. I don't agree with voting for Harris. I don't agree with voting for Trump, but I've respect that people are going through agony because of Donald Trumps inadequacies.

TAPPER: If you lived in a battleground state, would you write somebody in?

BOLTON: Yes. Because I don't think either one or qualified. I think you have to make a threshold judgment whether somebody should even be close to the Oval Office. And I don't think either one qualify.

TAPPER: What about January 6? How important do you think that that should be to people when they vote?

BOLTON: Well, I think it's not just January 6. It's a whole range of things Trump has said over a long period of time, including we should suspend the Constitution. I think he's very dangerous. I think its going to be a retribution presidency if he wins.

I think it's going to be a struggle. I think he could cause damage and we're just going to have to be ready for it if he does win.

TAPPER: All right. Former Ambassador John Bolton. Good to see you, sir. Thank you so much.

Coming up next, we expect to see Kamala Harris in Flint, Michigan. What her campaign may see in this particular battleground, and knew the numbers in this state -- why the numbers in the state matter so much.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:34:01]

TAPPER: And we're back with our 2024 lead. It's a mad dash until Election Day in both President Trump and Vice President Harris are out on the campaign trail.

Right now in key battleground states, Trump is heading from Georgia to North Carolina. Harris is in Michigan.

I want to bring in CNN senior data reporter Harry Enten.

Harry, we talked a lot about battlegrounds, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Arizona. I'm hearing Democrats expressing a lot of concern right now about Michigan.

Where do Harris and Trump stand in Michigan right now?

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Yeah, I think there's good reason for Democrats to be concerned with what's going on in the Wolverine State. And we can see it right here in the polling average.

Look, if you look at the Democrat versus Trump margin in, of course, the great state of Michigan, what do we see in the polling average? We see Kamala Harris only up by a point, right? Compare that to the 2020 result when Joe Biden won, of course, in Michigan by three.

Joe Biden at this point in the polls in 2020, was up by six, no matter what way you splice it, one point is significantly less than six points. It's a race at this particular point, Mr. Tapper, that is far too close to call.

[16:35:01]

And, of course, Michigan is so pivotal both for Kamala Harris and for Donald Trump, but even more so for Kamala Harris because this is the chance they win the election if they lose in the great state of Michigan. The chance that Harris wins the election if she loses in Michigan is just 7 percent. For Trump at 16 percent slightly higher. But I think the key nugget that you can take away from this data is Michigan is a must-win, but it's especially a must-win for Kamala Harris.

TAPPER: There's also a lot of a lot of union members in Michigan and we know union leadership's endorsement of a presidential candidate only goes so far. It really comes down to the rank and file members who might be in favor of Trump because they're worried about electric vehicles. There might be cultural issues, et cetera, et cetera.

Where does the union vote stand in Michigan?

ENTEN: Yeah. So let's take a look. Look at this year and then we'll compare it to where we were back in 2020. So this is union households in Michigan presidential lecture margins.

Look at this. Joe Biden won that vote by 15 points back in 2020. Look at where the margin is now, Harris is ahead in union households, but that number, that lead for her, it's down to just six points -- down six points. And this mirrors something that we've seen nationally, and that is at least among union households, Kamala Harris is right now showing the poorest, showing for any Democrat you'd have to go all the way back since 1984 and the Reagan landslide when ,Mondale won union households by even less than, right now at Harris this is ahead by.

But the bottom line is yes, Harris is ahead among union households in Michigan, but that margin is considerably slimmer than what Joe Biden won amongst them back in 2020.

TAPPER: And in this perfect storm in Michigan for Harris, Democrats are also worried about losing strength with Arab American and Muslim American voters in places such as Dearborn because of what's going on in the Middle East right now, what does history tell us?

ENTEN: Yeah. What is history tell us about Dearborn? It can basically change at a moments notice. You know, Joe Biden won in Dearborn by 39 points last time around. But history is not always prologue because I want you to take a look back at the beginning of this century.

Remember, George W. Bush won in Dearborn by eight points, then four years later, if the war, the war on terror start, a lot of Muslims turned against the Bush administration, John Kerry won in Dearborn by 19 points. Remember, uncommitted and the Democratic primary this past time around, won a majority of the vote in Dearborn.

So the bottom line is Dearborn and the Arab Muslim vote very much up for grabs in Michigan, not a good sign for Kamala Harris.

TAPPER: All right. Harry Enten, thanks so much.

Let's continue this conversation with Democratic strategist James Carville.

And James, you just heard Harry Enten lay out what's at stake and battleground Michigan. Are you confident Harris can win Michigan?

JAMES CARVILLE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, if I -- if I listen to you and Harry, I think she ought a quick, okay? I mean, I just never seen anything like the piling oh, wow, she's behind union households. She's behind in Dearborn. She's behind here, there. She's behind everywhere.

I'll go ahead and make a prediction. There are seven swing states, the least likely outcome is they break for three. But it's also, Jake, a gospel rule that every piece of information has to be interpreted in emotion, negative light for Democrats, but I don't know if she's behind and everything. Why is she ahead?

I -- you know, maybe I'm just too stupid, not sophisticated enough to figure this out, but I don't think she ought to quit. I think show to play through Election Day. TAPPER: Well, no one is suggesting that she quit, but she does have

challenges in Michigan.

CARVILLE: Well, I listening to your segment, it sounds like she should.

TAPPER: I'm hearing from top Democrats today, today, who's say that they're worried about Michigan, they're not saying they're given up. They're saying they got, you know --

CARVILLE: Right, every -- you think Trump's not worried about North Carolina.

TAPPER: I --

CARVILLE: You think Trumps not worried about Wisconsin? I mean, but all I'm saying, Jake, there is an ironclad rule that every data point has to be interpreted in the most negative light for the Democrat. And I'm just challenging that ironclad rule. That's whole --

TAPPER: Well, I give you the -- I give you the data points so shoot down and explain why Democrats should feel more confident.

Let me -- let me -- let me ask you about something. So, one of the challenges for Harris, sure, is right now the Arab American and Muslim American populations in all over, but especially in Michigan, where there's a sizable population, are very negative about Biden and less so, but also not feeling excited about Harris because of the war in the Middle East, because of Israel going after Hamas.

Now I want to play a clip from a local NBC affiliate from Sunday this is the publisher of the Arab American news talking on a local NBC station and I want to get your view on what he had to say. It's a full-screen.

Okay. I'm saying we -- as he said, we've been living lies in America propaganda that says that Hamas is a terrorist organization, that says that Hezbollah is a terrorist organization. They're going to kill the Jews. They're going to throw them in the sea. That is all nonsense. That's a quote from him, Osama Siblani.

[16:40:01]

And then when he was asked if Hamas's attacks on October 7 invited the misery that Gazans are now experienced, this gentleman, the publisher of the "Arab American News", said, quote, what you expect people to do, stay under occupation, what are they supposed to do? They're supposed to fight back. It is a legitimate right under international law. You have the right to fight your occupier, especially if your occupier, is oppressor, unquote.

So this is a prominent member of the Arab American community in Michigan. How can Kamala Harris get the support of somebody who thinks that way?

CARVILLE: So let's back up. Trump say I'll let Bibi do whatever the hell he wants to do. Harris and Biden are saying we need -- we need to have a ceasefire. We need to sit down and do that.

So then they as these people that are protesting Biden, who's actually more favorably disposed to their point of view and they said, well, we can't do anything about Trump, but that, that doesn't make any sense. And I think Arab in Michigan everywhere around the world, a very smart and savvy people.

So I don't know why you would say were not going to vote for the people that actually wanted to try to effectuate a very difficult solution. And to the problem here is opposed to somebody says, I'm just for whatever Bibi wants, I'm going to give him.

It -- at some level, it doesn't make any sense, but again, it is an ironclad rule that we have to interpret everything in the most negative light for Democrats.

TAPPER: You have a new CNN film debuting tomorrow night. It's called "Carville: Winning is Everything, Stupid".

CARVILLE: Right.

TAPPER: Let's play a little preview.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARY MATALIN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Cheeno is now my travel dog. That's as hideous as our pictures are.

PAUL BEGALA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They both passionate love their country. They both passionate love politics. They're both really expert and are students of the game. But they're on different sides.

They have such a famous -- I know it's like a cliche, such a famous mixed marriage. She's a devout Republican. He's a reptile, and yet they've made it work over the years.

MATALIN: I'm really a conservative. He's really illiberal.

CARVILLE: These are things I ain't changing. I ain't changing wife. I'm not changing sexual orientation. I'm not changing the political parties. We're going to go to the house with what we got here, okay?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They have a deep love and a deep respect, there's no question. And the secret I believe, what do I know, but the secret I believe to their marriage is they don't talk about politics.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: What is it like living with you two? I mean --

MATALIN: Friday night, if we weren't with you, we've probably be having a good steep drink, which we're about to go do right now anyways.

COOPER: All right. I'll let you go do that. Mary, thank you. James Carville, thank you.

CARVILLE: You bet.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: James, I hear your wedding anniversary's next month. Congratulations.

So given how you've learned to navigate political differences in your own life, what's - what advice you'd give to people at home when the country's so politically divided?

CARVILLE: Well, one of our secrets is she's in Sicily right now, and I' in Mississippi, so it works that way.

You know, there's so many other things that people have to their lives. They have children, they have family, they have community. With just so many things that we agree on, and we're compatible with and, you know, we're not come off the road or she's doing something. I just don't want to get a fight about the minimum wage, all right?

And, you know, every -- every couple has something that they have to work through. Most couples have multiple things they have to work through and we've been together in married since Thanksgiving of '93, and, you know, we're really enjoyed our lives together. We have enjoyed our children, enjoyed our family.

And I'm both very excited about this film. Hopefully it'll give profession that I love and that you spent your life covering a good name because we've demeaned politics to such a point that I'm afraid we're not going to be able to get young good people, talented people like yourself involved in this again, and that's my great fear.

TAPPER: All right. James Carville, well, love to marry and congratulations on the film and more importantly, congratulations on your anniversary.

CARVILLE: Thank you, sir. Thank you.

TAPPER: And don't forget, the new film, "Carville: Winning is Everything, Stupid" premiers tomorrow night at 7:00 Eastern, right here on CNN.

Allegations of a stolen election are nothing new in American politics. We're digging into the archives with CNN's Chris Wallace next here on THE LEAD.

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[16:48:51]

TAPPER: In our politics lead, an incumbent vice president running for the big job in the Oval Office, fears of a contested convention, allegations of a stolen election sounds familiar, but I'm not talking about 2024. Those are just some of the parallels with the 1960 presidential election between then Vice President Richard Nixon and Senator John F. Kennedy, the subject of the project of my next guest. The book is "Countdown 1960: The Behind the Scenes Story of the 312 days that Changed America's Politics Forever". And here now is the author and CNN anchor, Chris Wallace.

Chris, congratulations. The book is great. It's your third book in the countdown format.

I think I know the answer to this question because I too am fascinated by this election. But what drew you to the Kennedy-Nixon showdown in 1960?

CHRIS WALLACE, CNN ANCHOR: Well, as you as a student of old elections, it's a great election. I mean, you've got these two seminal figures of 20th century politics, Jack Kennedy, first Catholic president, youngest elected president at 42, the scion of this extraordinary family that Kennedys. His father basically said, you're going to be the president.

[16:50:04]

And he did everything, including spending big time money to get them there.

And Richard Nixon, who probably was the dominant political figure of the second half of the 20th century. So it's a great story in itself. First debates for his televised debates, as I say, first Catholic elected decided by less than 1 percent of the vote.

But the other thing about it was, I think its so relevant to 2020 because everything that we understand about the 2020 election, the false allegations that the election was stolen. Donald Trump refusing to accept that and trying to interfere with the transition of power, 1960 just puts all of that on its head. This was an election that may really have been stolen.

And Richard Nixon, who a lot of people don't consider a hero, actually did the right thing and accepted the peaceful transfer of power.

TAPPER: You know, I asked Bill Daley about that because he, you know, his dad gets blamed for stealing the election for Kennedy and he said, first of all, it wasn't true. Second of all, that whatever votes were stolen in Chicago, they were stealing them for Nixon and in other parts of Illinois.

But your point is well taken because Nixon said after all this happened, our country cannot afford the agony of a constitutional crisis and I damn well will not be a party to creating one just to become president.

What a difference from today.

WALLACE: Well, just look at the two January 6. By the Electoral Count Act of 1887, the president has to -- the vice president has to certify the counting of the electoral vote. In 1960, Vice President Nixon, is there and for the first time in a century since 1860, the vice president is certifying the election of the person who beat him and has now the president. And he does it in the most fulsome some way, in the most gracious way, even Democrats who hated him gave him a standing ovation and then, of course, you've got January 6 of 2021 where Mike Pence says the Constitution doesn't allow me to try to overturn this election. There's a riot that they say let's of hang Mike Pence, they even put up gallows.

So, it's a great story in itself, and it couldn't be more different from the politics of 2020 and really the politics of today, because we are still hearing Donald Trump talk about this election is going to be stolen. I'm not sure I'm going to accept it. It just stands at all on its head.

TAPPER: And you touched on one of my favorite subplots of the 1960 election which is this love triangle or quadrangle, it depends how many of the woman's lovers you include. That includes Frank Sinatra. Tell us more about it.

WALLACE: Well, Frank Sinatra and this woman, Judith Campbell, who was an L.A. party girl and very attractive, same people who said she was an Elizabeth Taylor lookalike. They'd had a relationship for awhile, and in February of 1960, Kennedy and Sinatra knew each other and Kennedy went to stay for a night in Las Vegas just to relax on the campaign trail. And Sinatra into introduces them to Judith Campbell.

Well, about a month later, Sinatra introduces Campbell to Sam Giancana, Momo Salvatore, Giancana who was the head of the Outfit, which is the Chicago mob. And this Sinatra wasn't involved in that part of it. But there are interesting romantic, and frankly, I think some payoffs, money going from the Kennedys to the mob to be spread around particularly in the primary in West Virginia, that helped Kennedy get the nomination.

TAPPER: That's right. And it was I believe the father, Ambassador Joseph Kennedy, who it was more intimately involved in helping Mr. Sinatra's union friends, shall we call them, in West Virginia, helping to beat back the challenge from Hubert Humphrey in the presidential primary.

There's even a story which is extraordinary, but this gives you a sense of how politics was played back then. So the archdiocese of Boston gives, you know, all of their contributions to the church and Richard Cardinal Cushing, the cardinal of Boston, gives all of that money to Joe Kennedy, untraceable cash. Kennedy then gives a check covering that amount to the church, accepts a donation, and then takes that cash and gives it to the mob to hand out to preachers in West Virginia and Cushing actually brags about it to the man who got beaten that primary, Hubert Humphrey says, it was good for the church. It was good for the cardinals -- I mean, for the preachers, and it was good for the candidate.

TAPPER: So as also as you noted, this was not only the first year of a televised presidential debate, this is the first time and that there was a presidential debate between the two party nominees? No, that's right and just extraordinary and Eisenhower did not think that that Nixon should debate Kennedy because there was a big stature gap. I mean, Kennedy certainly had glamour and he had more money, but Nixon had been vice president for eight years.

[16:55:03]

He had faced off in the face Moscow kitchen debate with Khrushchev.

But once Kennedy accepted the offer of the networks, Nixon felt he couldn't say no, and he went in and he had been suffering from the staph infection. He was ten pounds underweight. He was sick, he had a fever, he banged his knee, which is where he got the infection on a limousine door going into the debate, he got clobbered in the debate.

I mean, it just like some of the debates we've seen this year and the whole statute gap left. I really think that changed the whole momentum of the campaign and probably is what precipitated John Kennedy being the president of the United States.

TAPPER: Fascinating election and a fascinating, fascinating book. The book is "Countdown 1960: The Behind the Scene Story of the 312 Days That Changed America's Politics Forever". It'll be released this Tuesday.

Chris Wallace, thank you so much. Best of luck with it.

WALLACE: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: And we saw quite the online unlikely pairing just last hour, Donald Trump with Republican governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp, whom Trump has been bashing for years because camp had the audacity to refuse to help Trump steal Georgia in 2020. Guess the calculations have changed. We'll get into that next.

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