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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Harris Accepts CNN Invitation For Town Hall; 12 People Dead, 3 Million Without Power After Hurricane Milton; U.S. Supreme Court Weighs Fate Of Richard Glossip. Harris and Trump Campaign in the Battleground States; Auto Workers in Michigan on They are Voting; Steve Bannon Out of Prison Next Week. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 21, 2024 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper. This hour a new fight is brewing over a Texas death row inmate whose life was spared at the last minute last week. We've told you all about him, Robert Robertson, the man at the center of a shaken baby syndrome case. He was supposed to testify today before a bipartisan group of lawmakers, but his chair was empty. So what happens next in this case?
Plus, voters consistently rank the cost of living as one of their biggest concerns headed into the election, so we're digging into both the Harris and Trump plans for making life for you more affordable, to see if they would, in fact, save you any money.
We're going to start this hour, however, in two key battleground states where Vice President Harris and former President Trump are making closing arguments of sorts to voters today. For Trump, it's three stops in North Carolina. For Harris, it's a series of town halls with former Republican Congresswoman Liz Cheney in three swing counties and three battleground states.
Let's go straight to CNN's Priscilla Alvarez, who's following the Harris campaign. She's in Brookfield, Wisconsin. And Kristen Holmes is following the Trump campaign in Concord, North Carolina. Priscilla, let me start with you. How exactly would you describe Harris in terms of how she is utilizing Liz Cheney as they try to appeal to independents and Republicans in these three must-win battleground states?
PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, these moderated conversations are less about policy proposals, more about democracy, that bigger idea and what both the vice president and Liz Cheney have described as country over party. Now, the hope by the Harris campaign is that they can target a small but decisive group of voters. Those Republicans you talked about those moderate Republicans, Republicans who are turned off by former President Donald Trump.
And what they are doing over the course of these conversations is trying to appeal to those voters in these key suburban areas. The vice president starting in Pennsylvania with Liz Cheney, now in Michigan, where she had this message for those in the crowd. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: My one fear I have is I hope and I pray that we the American people understand not only what is at stake for us in this election, but how much we mean to the rest of the world. There is so much at stake in this election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ALVAREZ: Now, the vice president will be coming here to Wisconsin shortly. This is Waukesha County. This is a long-time GOP stronghold, but it is also a county that President Biden did better than most Democrats in the last several decades. Now, he still lost the county, but the vice president and her team think that they can make inroads here, especially with white college-educated voters, by issuing this warning of a potential second Trump term.
Now, another issue that sources tell me will be featured prominently over the next several days is also reproductive freedom. That is yet another issue that when paired with democracy, they think that they can start to peel off these GOP voters from former President Donald Trump. Jake?
TAPPER: Kristen, meanwhile Trump is holding three events in battleground North Carolina. Which group of voters is the Trump campaign focusing on in the Tar Heel State as they try to lock it down?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, right now the big focus is on driving out whoever they can, any Republican, any Trump supporter, to the polls. Early voting has started here and what you have heard Donald Trump say over and over again on his various stops today is that people need to go out and they need to vote now. Part of this is he says they need to swamp the vote by getting as many people as possible.
We just heard a video playing behind me at the stage at Concord about how they wanted to get people out there to vote, giving them the rules of early voting. But another way that Donald Trump appears to be trying to push people out there to vote and to vote early is by using fear tactics, essentially claiming without evidence at his last stop the Democrats were trying to cheat in the 2024 election, even in deep blue California. Take a listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, REPUBLICAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: They said millions and millions of ballots out there don't know what the hell's happening. And no matter what happens, they say, well, California is not available. You ever hear the expression that the vote counter is far more important than the candidate. And unfortunately, we can't let that happen. We've got to take it back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, I'm not sure what kind of phrase or saying that is that is not one that's common. The vote counter is more important than the candidate. We often hear much more that the candidate or the policies are more important. But you also talked about various groups that Donald Trump is trying to reach. You should look for this.
Donald Trump and his team targeting women, moderate women, suburban women with a very increased effort in the coming two weeks. We've seen it for the last week. They have really come to the realization of how big this gender gap is. They're going to be deploying people like RFK Jr. who they think plays well with specific moms, suburban moms, people who are possibly anti-vaccine or into more of their children's health organics.
[17:05:04]
Also, Nikki Haley, there are conversations about Nikki Haley hosting some sort of town hall with the former president. These are all an effort to reach that specific group as we have seen that very wide gender gap in all of those recent polls, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Kristin Holmes in Concord, North Carolina, Priscilla Alvarez in Brookfield, Wisconsin. Two huge battleground states. Thanks to both of you. Joining us now, Jeff Flake, former Republican Senator from Arizona and former US Ambassador to Turkey under Biden.
Senator, ambassador, I guess I should call you now, you were one of the most conservative members of the Senate. I used to have you on to talk about your conservative views. For example, you were very focused on supporting limited government. You opposed abortion. But now you say you're okay with Kamala Harris, who disagrees with you on a lot of those issues. How do you look past what are very serious policy differences?
JEFF FLAKE, FORMER U.S. SENATOR: Well, as a conservative, first and foremost, I believe in the rule of law. And the bedrock principle in the rule of law is respect for elections. And we have a former president who ran an election, lost, and then tried to overturn the will of the voters. How in the world, as a conservative, can I support a candidate who does that?
TAPPER: You also say that you want to bring the Republican Party back to its true conservative values. You opted not to run for reelection in 2018, saying that it became clear that your opposition to Trump would make it impossible to get through a Republican primary, which I think has been proven correct, given who they've put up in the Republican Party of Arizona. How do you bring the party back to true conservatism? And how do you do it if people like you or Bob Corker for example, aren't willing to be out there running as candidates?
FLAKE: Well, one is to vote in Kamala Harris this time. If we have President Trump again, then the Republicans will be under the illusion that we can keep this going, when this is really kind of a cul-de-sac that we've entered. If you look, you mentioned Arizona's politics. We Republicans can't seem to get a Republican through the primary who can win the general election.
And so the five top, you know, offices in the state are held by Democrats. I think for, you know, Republicans at some point will get tired of losing. And we are certainly losing in Arizona, unless we can get back to the principles of limited government, economic freedom, individual responsibility, free trade, strong American leadership abroad. That's what's defined the Republican Party over the years, and that's a winning issue today.
TAPPER: Well, let's talk about Arizona, because right now, according to polls, Democratic Senate candidate Ruben Gallego is leading significantly and beating Kari Lake. I don't know if this is her second or third time running statewide, and she obviously is rather untethered to facts and reality. But the Arizona polling I've seen for the presidential race is very competitive if not Trump leading. How do you explain that?
FLAKE: What is very competitive? Arizona is still a red state. And if you have an R behind your name, that's usually enough, if you don't talk about election denial or whatever else, to win statewide. But with President Trump, it's different. Arizonans, you know, are more in the mold of, you know, independent voters who don't like Republicans or Democrats who deny elections.
And so I think that, you know, it's a close race now, but last time it was close as well. President Biden won by about 10,000 votes. That's a very slim margin. I suppose this will come about that close as well.
TAPPER: And what do you say to an Arizonan right now who says, I hear what you're saying about democracy, but cost of living is just out of control. Why should that person vote for Kamala Harris?
FLAKE: Well, obviously when you -- if people are hurting out there, and I think we need better policies going forward. I think we're going to have that. But if you look at what former President Trump is proposing, tariffs in particular, anybody who believes that that's going to bring down inflation or bring down the cost of goods is kidding themselves. That's not conservative policy or Republican policy at all. President Harris's policies in that regard are much more close to where Republicans generally are.
TAPPER: All right. Mr. Ambassador, good to see you. Thank you so much for your time today.
FLAKE: Good to see you.
TAPPER: My panel joins us now. Kristen Soltis Anderson, let me talk to you. How many voters like Jeff Flake, like Liz Cheney, are there out there?
[17:09:56]
Does the Harris campaign focusing on taking Liz Cheney to these counties in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, Michigan, make more sense than rallying young people or African-Americans or Latinos in those states? KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So there may not
be that many of them, but their turnout percentage is very high. If you are the kind of person who's really overthinking this almost, you are really torn up inside about what you're going to do at this stage of the game. If you are one of those, you know, Nikki Haley Republicans, even though she said she supports Trump, you're definitely turning out to vote. And so switching you from Trump to Harris is a pretty big deal.
Meanwhile, for those other voter groups, maybe they're not available to the other candidate, but they may not be turning out. And so that's part of why I suspect the Harris campaign is making such a big play for them.
TAPPER: I asked your former boss, Bernie Sanders, yesterday, why is Kamala Harris campaigning with Liz Cheney and not with you, Senator Sanders? He gave a very politic answer, smooth guy in his Brooklyn way. But I have to say, like, does it make sense to you?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Seventy-six thousand people voted for Nikki Haley in Wisconsin. That's well within the margin of what she needs right now. And I think they can walk and chew gum at the same time. You've got to have, to your point, the turnout model for these voters are three times higher than they are for these young people we keep talking about, but you can do both at the same time.
This weekend in Philadelphia, other than having a good night on a football game, they were walking door-to-door at the steelworker local 19th. So I had a buddy of mine who's a retiree from there who said they had over a hundred guys out there walking door-to-door in Philly showing that they can walk and chew gum at the same time.
TAPPER: So let me, Michael Bender, let me bring you in. You have a new article on the "Times." We tick through Trump's recent remarks. And there have been analyses in the "Times" about his comments just comparing them word for word and length for length and how he is getting darker and more meandering, et cetera.
One of the things you write here is, quote, "one of the truisms of Trump world is that being viewed as boring is a sin more deadly than being wrong. On the campaign trail, former President Donald J. Trump often takes that to mean he must go off-script and veer off message. His critics say such detours are a troubling sign of his incoherence and raise questions about his age and cognitive health." But his supporters don't see it that way.
MICHAEL BENDER, POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Yeah, there's a couple things going on here. One is -- I've been writing about this with Trump for the past year, even when he was running against Biden. He makes some of the same mistakes that Biden used to make on stage. He's talked about running against Obama in 2016. He gets the dates wrong for World War II, so on and so forth.
That kind of meandering is worth bringing up. He would be older than Biden if he was sworn in next January, older than when Biden was when he was sworn in. And you know, this lack of focus through these speeches is important. You know, I know a lot of people talk about his stamina getting through two-hour rallies.
You've covered policy, you know. I mean, it can take months, if not years, of singular focus to get big, broad ideas embedded into law. And Trump is going from topic to topic, not finishing stories within two hours. There's the other issue of staying on message.
TAPPER: Yeah.
BENDER: This is a problem for him in 2020 where he was sort of all over the place. It wasn't clear what his message was, and even that internally within Trump's allies and his own campaign is growing worrisome for him. Today in North Carolina, the news release was all about the economy in North Carolina. Trump is up there on stage saying immigration is more important than the economy, contradicting his own campaign. That's a problem for people trying to figure out who to vote for, why they would vote for Trump at this point.
TAPPER: Do you think this has any impact? Obviously not on his base. They love him. They think he's entertaining. They love how he talks like a real guy, et cetera, et cetera. But let's just take the Arnold Palmer anecdote that he told yesterday about I'll just say seeing Arnold Palmer -- people seeing Arnold Palmer naked in the shower and being impressed.
Now, I've never heard anything like that. I'm not offended. I don't care. But I do wonder, how many voters does that get you of the people that are in this undecided pool?
KRISTIN DAVISON, PRESIDENT, AXIOM STRATEGIES: Well, I think, you know, the undecided poll is shrinking. We really don't have that many undecided voters. It's really, are you going to vote or you're not? This is really becoming the stranger things election. We have two different realities going on. We have one campaign that's running to win people to the team, to persuade them. We have another campaign that is really just trying to gin up base turnout.
And so in that instance, I don't think it wins over the Nikki Haley voter. There's 158,000 of them in Pennsylvania. That's a huge number. You know, and I think, you know, Harris went to Bucks County and had a pretty decent event, was quoting Ronald Reagan.
TAPPER: Yeah, last Friday. Yeah.
DAVISON: So it's almost like the Bernie Sanders -- with Bernie Sanders' voters just -- they already know it's a wink-wink, nudge- nudge, let her get through this. Let us get at least half of the 158,000 Nikki Haley voters. And she'll do all the progressive things when she's in office. Those comments, you know, Trump is at 99 percent name ID. Everyone knows who he is. He was on our TV on "Home Alone" and "The Apprentice" way before he ran for office, so everyone knows who he is.
[17:14:59]
Nothing is really shocking, but that's not the campaign that they're running. It appears the campaign they're running is to bring that turnout and seeing early vote in places like North Carolina and Georgia and Virginia and Nevada. It might be working for them.
TAPPER: What do you think? I mean, do you think it turns off voters, the weirdness, or like, let's take something more serious than the Arnold Palmer comments, this whole enemy from within. He keeps on saying it, the military needs to be used, Republicans like Glenn Youngkin and Speaker Johnson keep coming on the show and telling me he's talking about the marauding hordes and then Trump, like inevitably always, no, no, I'm talking about Democrats. Does that hurt voters that are still up for grabs?
ANDERSON: I mean, I can't imagine it's a helpful message, but I do think that ultimately -- I like this stranger things analogy you raised because it does feel like half of the country's voters feel like the other half is living in the upside down. I think that fundamentally this election is about Americans thinking that things feel like they have gone off the rails. And it is only their preferred candidate winning that will get things back on the rails.
So that's not just about the economy, that's not just about immigration, it's about Trump voters thinking totally lost and only someone with his unique qualities can get things back on track at the same time that Harris folks, very understandably, think that if Trump is back in charge, things will only get more off the rails.
TAPPER: What do you think?
ROCHA: This is my first time in 35 years where I've seen somebody give a campaign speech and then play their opponent's video at the campaign speech.
TAPPER: Kamala Harris does that for Trump, yeah.
ROCHA: Absolutely. And what she's doing that far is to remind people how disconnected he is to your point in your articles about his detachment with reality. All of this is very baked in. I get that every day I run campaigns. We see it in our polling and focus groups. But reminding people and then the clips going viral, that's when you start engaging people who are normally not engaged in politics.
TAPPER: Thanks to my panel, including Michael Bender, who instead of letting him speak a second time, I'm going to tell you about, he has a new book out. It's called, "Frankly, We Did Win This Election: The Inside Story of How Trump Lost." Pick it up today. It's -- what is it? The paperback version?
BENDER: Oh, yeah. There's (inaudible) you.
TAPPER: Yeah, okay. I love -- I've plugged this excellent book before. Don't miss CNN's town hall with Vice President Harris later this week. Anderson Cooper's gonna moderate it Wednesday night 9:00 Eastern here in CNN. Me and my senior colleagues are gonna cover it too, special coverage before and after the town hall.
All signs point to Michigan playing a huge role deciding next president and CNN's John King visited one key suburb to catch up with voters we met earlier this year and see how their thinking has changed as Election Day draws closer.
Plus, we've heard Harris and Trump talking about their economic plans on the trail. Will they actually be able to do anything to save you money? We're digging into the numbers, stay with us.
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[17:20:00]
TAPPER: And we're back with our 2024 lead in the battleground state of Michigan. CNN has a new look at voters in the all-important Detroit suburbs. That's an area that's seen massive changes to its key industry, automobile manufacturing in recent years. And though President Biden comfortably won those suburbs in 2020, some voters there tell CNN's John King they think it will be much, much closer this time around.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN KING, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bill Govier is a 30-plus year union worker at Ford and he has this side business cleaning car underbodies. When we first visited four months ago, he was a fan of Robert Kennedy, Jr. Now, he will cast his third ballot for Trump.
BILL GOVIER, MICHIGAN VOTER: RFK joining Trump effectively, I couldn't script it any better the way I would like it to be. I love the idea of Donald Trump being the commander-in-chief. I love the idea of how Donald Trump handles the nefarious characters in the world.
KING (voice-over): Govier believes more than half of UAW members at his Ford plant will vote Trump. He says Harris laughs too much and he can't take her seriously.
GOVIER: So what is it? You're the incumbent who wouldn't do anything different. Or are you the underdog that wants change?
KING (voice-over): And he says critics take Trump too literally.
GOVIER: You know, he does it for effect. I don't believe that Trump really believes someone's eating cats and dogs. I don't believe that he's going to call the National Guard out at gunpoint round up every migrant and force them across the border. I don't believe that for a second.
KING (voice-over): Count this early vote in Wayne County for Harris. And count Tonya Rincon as a Democrat who long ago lost patience with Ford co-workers who shrug off Trump attacks on immigrants, on judges, on vote counts, on critics.
TONYA RINCON, MICHIGAN VOTER: There's a lot of people that they just take the crazy with Trump as its baked in the cake and we're just willing to ignore it. Whereas if we heard that out of our loved ones, we'd be like, okay, Grandpa, it's time to take your keys.
KING (voice-over): Rincon just retired from the Wayne Assembly plant and is helping the UAW register and turn out voters. She says her June bet that her local would split 50-50 in a Trump-Biden race is still about right, with Harris now atop the Democratic ticket.
RINCON: There's a little bit more enthusiasm among some of my female co-workers. A couple of my male co-workers are pretty ambivalent about Harris. We may have lost a tiny margin of support because sexism is a real thing, you know? They're just like, you know, I'm not sure she can do it. I don't think the country's ready for a female president.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KING (on camera): And Jake, this is one of those margins within the Democratic coalition, one of the groups within the Democratic coalition where the margins can really matter. Hillary Clinton was plus 13 points. She won the union household vote in Michigan in 2016 by 13 points and she lost the state and lost the presidency. Joe Biden had a 25 point advantage, almost double that of Clinton in 2020 among union households.
He, of course, won Michigan and won the presidency. So can Harris get anywhere close to the Biden number as she tries to put together a coalition in Michigan? At the moment, that looks dicey.
TAPPER: So you visited these same voters before President Biden dropped out of the presidential race. What surprised you, given what you heard last time?
KING: On the floor -- on the factory floor, they say there's more racism and sexism now. Before it was just Biden's too old. We don't like -- the Trump voters within the union auto plants were saying Biden's too old or Trump will bring back jobs or they don't like the EV mandates. Now the workers who support Harris say they're hearing more racism and more sexism.
[17:25:00]
The sexism they say reminiscent of 2016 where a lot of men who work the assembly lines said we're not ready for a woman president or she's not tough enough or not strong enough. The racism that, you know, one voter who's not in this piece we've talked to several times, Walter Robinson, a black man, he says he starts to engage, sometimes they realize he's not going to change their mind.
This is a lot of disparaging racial talk about the vice president. He says they're just parroting what they have to Trump.
TAPPER: Yeah. It's a lot of memes on Facebook you see along those lines as well. John King, thanks so much. This is just in our "Law and Justice Lead." Former Trump advisor Steve Bannon is going to serve his entire 120-day prison term despite pressing for an early release and learning that he may have been eligible for one. Let's go right to CNN senior crime and justice reporter Katelyn Polantz. Katelyn, tells us more.
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE REPORTER: Jake, October 29th, that's next Tuesday. That is the date of Steve Bannon's release from federal prison. He had been convicted of thumbing his nose, criminal contempt toward the House Select Committee whenever he failed to testify to them. And so recently, he's been trying under a way that you're able to get leniency in the Bureau of Prison system.
He's been trying to get out of jail early because he's a first time felony offender. But even though his lawyer have done quite a lot to say to the Bureau of Prisons in the federal system that Bannon should be released early, that he even got some approval, the warden at the Federal Correctional Institution in Danbury, Connecticut, where Steve Bannon is serving his time, he said, you know, we just don't have enough time to release Steve Bannon early. He's not going to be able to serve the end of his sentence on home confinement.
All of this is coming at a moment where Bannon is trying to reemerge as a voice behind Donald Trump. He hasn't been calling into his podcast, though that podcast is still out there. We know too, before he went to prison, he wanted to try and remain in touch with Donald Trump. We don't know the extent if that's been possible or even if he's made any calls with Trump, but Bannon is out there ready we know and having other people heard them on his podcast say he's going to get out on the stump and be campaigning for Donald Trump.
But instead, Jake, he's been spending his time in prison as an orderly. A 120 days was the full sentence that he will ultimately serve.
TAPPER: All right, Kaelyn Polantz, thanks so much for that update. Appreciate it. After donating millions of dollars to help get Trump elected, Elon Musk has reportedly found a new way to get involved in the 2024 race. The reporter behind this story investigating Musk's ties to a dark money network joins me live next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:30:28]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our 2024 Lead, just 26 days until Election Day, many of you probably already voting. CNN is reporting a record breaking haul for the Kamala Harris campaign, which has raised 1 billion with a B dollars since the Vice President entered the race officially just in July. Despite all that cash, Democrats are far from celebrating. Instead, there's a lot of hand wringing.
New Quinnipiac polls in three blue wall states show Harris and Trump still deadlocked in a tight race with no clear leader. The Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Harris is slightly ahead of Trump, 49 percent to 46 percent within the margin of error. In Michigan, it's the former president who holds the edge over Harris. Trump also narrowly leads Harris in battleground Wisconsin, all of those states, all of those polls within the margin of error, indicating it's basically a tie.
Here now to discuss our political panel, we have talked a lot about how both campaigns have been trying to appeal to white men. One Democrat is concerned there isn't being enough done by the Harris campaign to win over black male voters, specifically in Michigan. Jamal Simmons, who we all know, he's a panelist, quite often, a former communications director for Vice President Harris. He told Politico, quote, I am worried about turnout in Detroit. Do they have the machine to turn people out? There are concerns and they're not insignificant.
Karen --
KAREN FINNEY, CNN COMMENTATOR: Yes
TAPPER: Are you concerned?
FINNEY: Of course, I am. I'm I mean, always, I'm always nervous at this -- at this point in an election. I'll also point out that Jamal is from Detroit, so he does know the area quite well. Look, I mean, the polls are all over the place. We've seen the data showing that she is a little bit behind the Joe Biden 2020 coalition in a number of places with black voters. So yes, I mean, look, she's trying to do something that has never been done in 100 days, and trying to maximize every minute of every day in communicating with voters.
I hope, and I'm glad she's going to do a town hall with CNN. I think it's really important to do as much as you can and going directly to voters. I would love to see her do more, going directly to talk to black men and Latino men. And let's have it out and let them, you know, talk to her about what their concerns are, and make sure that they see themselves in the policy conversation that we're having.
TAPPER: Do you -- she did -- she did do a town hall today with Univision that's going to air --
FINNEY: Yes.
TAPPER: -- this evening. But are you surprised that she's not doing like five events a day, like barnstorming? I mean, there's only 26 days barnstorming every battleground state, three or four events a day. Forget the interview thing. OK? I -- I -- I realize I'm biased as a reporter. I want interviews --
MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: With local news, though.
TAPPER: With the local news interviews --
FINNEY: Yes.
TAPPER: -- town halls round, like it just seems like it doesn't feel like October with the schedules, I'm looking at for both of them, but I kind of think he has the edge right now.
FINNEY: Well, I -- I don't know if I agree with that. I mean I --
TAPPER: Forget the edge thing. But what about, like, what about like how active -- but what about how active the campaign?
FINNEY: Yes. I -- I think they're being very active. And look, she also has her day job. We do have -- we did just have tremendous storm come through Florida. She was here in Washington to help deal with that to some degree. But I think you're going to see that activity kick up over the next several weeks, as it should, by the way.
TAPPER: So Ramesh, I'm not the only one who thinks this. New York Times columnist Charles Blow says the Harris campaign needs more unscripted moments in, quote, Harris has to come down from the rally podiums for more personal interactions with individual voters. She's obviously doing the CNN town hall. It's going to be October 23rd. But what do you think?
RAMESH PONNURU, EDITOR, NATIONAL REVIEW: I think it's a very controlled and cautious campaign. And at a certain point you wonder whether, does -- does the campaign not trust Harris enough to comport herself well in these interactions. Does she herself not trust herself at this point? Is she too worried that -- that some mistake or gaffe is going to happen?
FINNEY: Wait, she just did, I'm sorry, a little bit over an hour with Howard Stern. She just did the Call Your Daddy Podcast. She just did, you know, late night --
DUBKE: All hard hitting news --
FINNEY: Not the point. Trump -- Donald Trump just did a podcast with some folks sitting around talking about whatever.
DUBKE: Yes.
FINNEY: The point is, they know just as well as we know, voters now decide where they get their information, when they get their information, and through what channel. And you do need to be everywhere and have conversations with people who aren't watching hard news.
DUBKE: You can make the argument -- you can make the argument that her early success in her rollout the -- the -- the convention and then the debate.
TAPPER: Which was pretty, we should note, it's pretty phenomenal --
DUBKE: Pretty phenomenal.
TAPPER: Yes, yes.
DUBKE: And -- and, I -- absolutely, and that's exactly the point I'm making. You could make the case that part of her caution comes from the fact that she was cautious and she had this phenomenal rollout, and now they're stuck. They're mired right now --
TAPPER: Yes.
DUBKE: -- in these poll numbers. And they -- they don't seem to be able to -- to figure out the way out.
[17:35:03]
TAPPER: So she was asked about running the shortest presidential campaign in modern history by Stephen Colbert.
FINNEY: Yes.
TAPPER: This is a couple nights ago. We didn't run any of this yesterday because we were all in hurricane coverage. Here is some of what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's a lot of catching up to do. You know, my opponent, the former president, has been running since 2020, and, you know --
STEPHEN COLBERT, COMEDIAN AND WRITER: Literally filed like --
HARRIS: Yes, right. So we, like, have a lot of time to -- to make up for.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So there is a fierce urgency. But I guess just, and -- and yes, she's increased her appearances with Colbert and -- and I'm not begrudging any of that.
FINNEY: Yes, yes.
TAPPER: Look, what people are --
FINNEY: Well, they were, so I'm just --
TAPPER: -- 3 billion media outlets. And, yes, Donald Trump does --
FINNEY: Donald Trump gets to do a podcast.
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: Go ahead.
TAPPER: They should go wherever they -- they -- both of them --
FINNEY: Yes.
TAPPER: -- should go wherever there are ears and eyes, absolutely.
FINNEY: Yes.
TAPPER: But is she doing enough of it is my question.
DUBKE: No, I don't think she's doing enough of it. And I think she does need these, going back to your original question, she does need these unscripted moments, because the American people know who Donald Trump is. They don't know who Vice President Harris is. And she needs to interact, whether it be local news, whether it be a debate, which isn't going to happen again, the town, all of these things.
FINNEY: Well, yes, because Trump won't do it. DUBKE: The -- well --
FINNEY: He said he wouldn't do a debate, that's not on her.
DUBKE: She needs to been -- yes, but -- but it is on her and her campaign to then create the moments in order to introduce herself --
FINNEY: She's doing the town hall.
DUBKE: -- to the American people.
TAPPER: She is, we should note, she's bringing out some heavy hitters. Former President Obama is going to stump for her in Pittsburgh. Former President Clinton is going to hit the trail this weekend, starting in Georgia.
DUBKE: -- spring momentum but -- and -- and attention, but they don't -- they don't bring what the American people are looking for. They don't give -- they can vouch for her, but the American people want to know who she is. And so --
PONNURU: And nobody needs to hear more from Trump to form an opinion of him. There still are some voters who are forming their opinions on Harris.
DUBKE: Absolutely.
FINNEY: But we are having an asymmetrical conversation here, right? Because we're talking about what she needs to be doing. We're not talking about him. We're not talking about the fact that he literally put lives in danger people in the southeast.
PONNURU: -- do know what they think about him, and they don't know --
FINNEY: It doesn't mean we shouldn't be talking about him. It doesn't mean we shouldn't be talking about the --
(CROSSTALK)
TAPPER: -- is right, so last night, an event in Pennsylvania, Trump continued to push these attacks against the federal response to Hurricane Helene. A lot of these are just completely false. Let's run that clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Families desperately tried to escape the rising flood waters, and they climbed onto roofs. They did anything they can to live, but Kamala didn't send any helicopters to rescue them. And when people sent helicopters, they turned them back. It was disgraceful what they did. So she didn't send anything or anyone at all. Days passed no help as men, women and children drowned.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I mean, there's so many lies packed into that clip. I don't even know what to say.
PONNURU: Trump is obviously willing to repeat anything he's heard without doing any due diligence on whether it's true, particularly if it allows him to slam his opponents. He's always been like this.
TAPPER: All right, happy?
FINNEY: Yes, thank you.
TAPPER: All right, thanks to all of you.
Since last night, my next guest has been rescuing people stranded by Hurricane Milton. An update on those search and rescue efforts, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:42:06]
TAPPER: And we're back with brand new drone video showing cars stranded in Tampa flood waters after Hurricane Milton hit. Tampa police say even though the storm has passed, there is a lot of work that remains to be done. Officers continue, for example, working in rescue operations. The non-profit organization Aerial Recovery has been on the ground helping in recoveries after both Hurricane Helene and Hurricane Milton. Let's go to Jeremy Locke, who's the co-founder of the group. Jeremy thanks for joining us. How many recoveries and rescues have you done so far? What was the scene like when you arrived down there last night?
JEREMY LOCKE, CO-FOUNDER, AERIAL RECOVERY: Yes. Last night, I mean, any -- anytime you're actually in the heart of the hurricane, it's -- it's very intense and I'm sure a lot of residents in the Florida and -- and southeastern United States can talk in the last -- last couple weeks especially. But I mean it was really intense. It's dark, it's -- it's rainy, it's super windy and fortunately we were able to get out there and -- and get in to Tampa and we're able to rescue seven individuals who found themselves in a -- in a very bad situation last night.
TAPPER: How does your team know how to find the people who need help?
LOCKE: Yes. Well, we've been doing this for a while now, been doing it about six years. We have a -- a pretty good following and we get most of our information actually from social media, Instagram, Facebook, people that know that we're out there on the ground and we're looking and they can reach out to us. They can go on our website, AerialRecovery.org. They can go on our -- our Instagram and Facebook and basically just say that they need help or they know someone who's in a bad situation and -- and we'll vet it and we'll push a team out there and -- and get them out of harm's way.
TAPPER: How does the damage look now?
LOCKE: Well, last night to be honest with you, I was expecting when I got down to Sarasota after we went through Tampa and -- and the sun to come up, I was expecting things to be a lot worse than -- than it is. I'm not saying that the area has not been affected because it has very heavily been affected out here. But the storm did slow down. It did lose a little bit of it -- of its power as it made landfall just south of Sarasota.
And to be honest with you, there's -- I mean there's a lot of power out, there's a lot of trees down, a lot of things you'd expect from a great wind damage and -- and some surge waters. But I think we were -- we were a little lucky with this one, to be honest.
TAPPER: What's the most shocking thing you've seen?
LOCKE: Last night that rescue, I mean we went in there. It's after midnight, it's -- it's -- it's cold, it's wet, it's rainy, we got the water up to our chest and we're helping a, you know, a two-year-old -- a two-year-old toddler out of a window with his pregnant mother and -- and father. And I mean that was -- that was pretty -- that was pretty in -- incredible and intense. And you have fellow neighbors that are yelling for help and it so, that was a pretty intense situation last night.
TAPPER: I'm so glad you were there to rescue them. Can I ask a question? Why were they still there?
[17:45:00]
LOCKE: That's a good question. You know, I can't really speak on that. I -- I would -- my -- my best guess would be, you know, some -- some people they don't get the warnings or unfortunately they find themselves maybe in an economic situation or it's difficult for them to get out of those places, to find a place to go. But for people like that -- that for whatever reason can't get out there, we will -- we will go try to help and -- and find you. But we absolutely encourage when -- when those evacuation orders are put in, do your absolute best to get out of there.
TAPPER: Yes, thank God you were there. Last week, you were in Asheville, North Carolina helping victims of -- of Helene. Now you're in Florida, helping victims of Milton. How is this -- this recovery different from what you saw in -- in North Carolina?
LOCKE: Well, you know that -- that storm Helene as it made landfall, we were actually in Tallahassee as it made landfall. And our kind of M.O. is we follow these things, we'll hunker down and we'd follow behind them. And Helene was interesting because normally you'd seen the -- the vast amount of damage right there where it makes landfall. It kind of dissipates as it goes through but I mean North Carolina, Eastern Tennessee that was absolutely devastated by the flood waters. And that -- that storm actually was -- was worse as it went farther in land, so you normally don't see that.
TAPPER: What is it like personally, what's the toll on you I mean obviously, you're doing such good work but you see so much destruction, so much death in some cases I'm sure.
LOCKE: Yes. You know -- it is difficult but I spent 20 years in the Army and most of my team are, you know, prior special operators, prior veterans. And we do spend a lot of our time out there deployed and -- and working and following orders and we see a lot of people that are -- that are put in harm's way, that are vulnerable and need help and sometimes we can't help them overseas.
But what we're going to do now is we're going to focus on the human beings. We're going to focus on the humanitarian operations. And -- and actually to be honest, it's difficult but it is such a great feeling to be able to go out like this and serve our -- our brothers and sisters out -- out there all over the world.
TAPPER: It's so amazing that you and your brothers and sisters are -- are doing this. It's not surprising that so many of you are veterans. I wonder if you ever think to yourself, you know, the government should be doing this. That's what our tax dollars go for.
LOCKE: Yes. You know I do think that. But we were going to go out there and we augment them, right, like, the government can only do so much and we are the people, right? We -- it's our responsibility to take care of our country as well. And if we are capable I think everybody has a serving heart, has a serving ability and we should go out there and do the best of our abilities to help other people out.
TAPPER: That's a beautiful sentiment. How long do you think you're going to be there in Florida helping with the recovery effort here?
LOCKE: We're taking a look at that now. We're still doing assessments. I really believe that search and rescue operations stays at least on the western part of Florida is -- is drawing to a near to an end. We're doing a lot of health and welfares. I imagine team will be down here at least another 24, 48 hours. And then honestly, we'll probably push back up to North Carolina, they need -- they have a lot of need up there. But we're going to help out as long as we possibly can down here.
TAPPER: Jeremy Locke doing God's work, thank you my friend. God bless you. Really appreciate you.
LOCKE: God bless you too, thank you for having me.
TAPPER: We're getting word of another rescue operation happening across the country in a Colorado gold mine. That story is coming up.
[17:48:17]
Plus the life of an Oklahoma death row inmate that is in the hands of the U.S. Supreme court, even the States Conservative Attorney General is trying to come to his defense. We will give you an update on this case. Richard Glossip, which we've been telling you about for quite some time, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: We are back with breaking news and a tense situation in the state of Colorado. At least 10 people we're told are trapped 1,000- feet underground in a gold mine near Cripple Creek. That's about a hundred miles south of Denver. CNN's Camila Bernal is on the story. And Camila, what -- what happened and tell us about rescue efforts.
CAMILA BERNAL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hey Jake, so those rescue efforts are ongoing right now, there are local officials, the sheriff's department, the fire department, everyone trying to get these 10 people trapped out of these mines. So, we know that this was not an active mine. This is essentially a tourist attraction.
It has been preserved for people to go and take this tour. It's about an hour-long tour. And we were told that there was some equipment malfunction. Now, we do not know exactly what part of the equipment malfunctioned here. But they say this is not a mine that collapse. So, keep that in mind this is not an active mine. Again, this is a place where people go for tours and to really learn about the evolution of mining.
And so when you look at the website of this mine, what they say is this about an hour long tour. And in that tour you go down essentially what -- it's like an elevator, they call it a shaft, right, that goes down in two minutes. And they say it goes down about 500 stories every single minute.
After you get off that elevator, what happens then is that you ride this tram air locomotive. So again, we do not know what part of the equipment malfunctioned. But we do know that at least 10 people are underground and are now being -- trying to figure out exactly what to do or how to get them out.
We do know that about 11 people were already rescued and there is, again, all these resources trying to get everything out. This is seasonal. This only opens in the summer. And this was actually the last week that the mine was going to be open, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Camila Bernal thank you so much. Appreciate it.
It is a life or death moment in our Law and Justice Lead. Richard Glossip's life is in the hands of the U.S. Supreme Court. You might remember the story of Glossip who's on death row in Oklahoma. Though, there are serious questions as to whether he should be. Even the conservative Attorney General of the State of Oklahoma is arguing that Glossip should not be put to death.
[17:55:10]
Glossip was convicted of arranging the murder of a man named Barry -- Barry Van Treese in 1997. Glossip's lawyer for years has been raising questions because the key witness at the time of conviction they say, lied under oath. The key witness we should note, was the guy who actually killed Van Treese. There also remain questions about evidence possibly having been kept from the defense.
There are legitimate issues and that lead the case to the U.S. Supreme Court yesterday, where the Justices heard nearly two hours' worth of arguments before, they will ultimately decide Glossip's fate.
And joining us now, is the attorney for Richard Glossip, Don Knight. Don, thanks so much for joining us. So, you were inside the room as the U.S. Supreme Court Justices listened to oral arguments in the case. How do you think it went?
DON KNIGHT, LAWYER FOR RICHARD GLOSSIP: Well, you know first off. I just want to say thank you to the Court for, you know, agreeing to hear the case. The arguments were amazing arguments by some -- some truly great litigators. Seth Waxman and -- and Paul Clement and Chris Michel. Amazing work done by these guys and it was a lot of good questions from the -- from the justices.
And boy, they gave us a lot of time, about an hour and a half or hour and 45 minutes maybe for what was supposed to be an hour long argument. So obviously I think, everybody was really concerned and trusted in the issues the were raised.
TAPPER: Some of the justices appeared open to the idea of sending the case back to Oklahoma State Court for an evidentiary hearing. Explain what that would mean and how it would impact the case.
KNIGHT: Well, there were some questions that about what did people mean they wrote something down or when they said something. So, what that would mean is that the court would remand the case back to the Oklahoma Court of Criminal Appeals with an order to send it back to the Oklahoma County District Court.
And once there, a judge would be assigned to the case and witnesses could be called and witnesses could be questioned and cross-examined about what certain things meant and what they said. And once that evidentiary hearing was over, a transcript of that hearing would -- would be made. The judge there would make a ruling on what people have said, and what -- what maybe things meant, who was telling the truth, who wasn't telling the truth. And that it would go back up to the Court of Criminal Appeals, this time with a more fulsome record.
TAPPER: Do -- I mean would you rather there be a evidentiary hearing or have the U.S. Supreme Court decide whether to throw out Glossip's conviction and order a new trial all together?
KNIGHT: We think and it was argued well today that an evidentiary hearing is not necessary in this case. That there -- there should be a -- a remand for a new trial. That's -- that's the appropriate thing to do.
TAPPER: Glossip's case is happening in a point where there is a lot of scrutiny in how the U.S. Supreme Court approaches cases involving the death penalty. What kind of impact do you think Glossip's case might have on current cases, death penalty cases and future ones?
KNIGHT: Well, the thing about Glossip, the -- this case in particular is it's not really one that should end up with some kind of larger context, some kind of precedent. This is a situation where we have a -- a couple of bedrock Supreme Court principles. The -- the -- the first being what we call braiding material which is information that is supposed to be disclosed to the defense before trial.
The prosecutor has a duty to do so, if it's helpful to the defense. And the second principle, is -- from the Pooh versus Illinois which says that when a prosecutor calls a witness and that witness lies and that prosecutors knows that that witness is lying, the prosecutor has a duty to stop the lie and to expose it right then and there.
Those are a couple of bedrock principles that were violated here. And those are the kind of things that if -- if the court says that, you know, the OCCA was wrong not to give us new trial. The court can base its decision on those principles and that's not setting forth something new. That's just holding to what the court has said in the past.
TAPPER: All right, Don Knight thank you so much for joining us. Appreciate it.
KNIGHT: Jake, Thank you so much.
TAPPER: And we will continue to cover the Richard Glossip case in all of its future endeavors. Ethel Kennedy we should note, died today at age 96. Ethel Kennedy suffered a stroke last week. She was the widow of Senator and former Presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy. She was with him when he was fatally shot by an assassin during the 1968 presidential race. She -- she was -- they were both in Los Angeles. At the time, she was pregnant with their 11th child.
Among her children are former Congressman Joseph Kennedy II, former Maryland Lieutenant Governor Kathleen Kennedy Townsend, former Presidential candidate Robert Kennedy Jr. Ethel Kennedy devoted her life to the causes that her husband and she believed in, especially human rights. She received the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2014. May her memory be a blessing, our deepest condolences go to all of the Kennedy family and her friends and admirers.
[18:00:10]
You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X formerly known as Twitter, and on TikTok at JakeTapper. You can follow the show on X at TheLeadCNN. You can also listen to the show whence you get your broad -- your podcasts. The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer right next door on a place we'd like to call The Situation Room. See you tomorrow.
