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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Biden's "Garbage" Comment Creates Harris Campaign Distraction; Sen. Alex Padilla, (D-CA), Is Interviewed About Comment By Joe Biden, Immigration, Economy; Harris Spotlights Immigration Policy In Address; Rep, Dan Crenshaw, (R-TX), Is Interviewed About Elon Musk, U.S. Budget, Military, Border Security; Elon Musk Says He Would Cut $2 Trillion From U.S. Budget; Trump Proposed Using U.S. Military For Border Security; Extremely Tight Presidential Race With 6 Days Until Election; ProPublica: Texas Abortion Ban Leads To Deadly Medical Delays; Answering Your Questions About Foodborne Illnesses. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired October 30, 2024 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:01:02]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: And welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We're just six days away from Election Day, so please just humor me, just for a little bit longer crank up the CNN election jam. I mean, come on, you know you love it, too. You know you do. That sweet CNN election.
Both campaigns right now focused on just a handful of critical battleground states with former President Donald Trump, Vice President Kamala Harris both holding rallies in North Carolina earlier today. Harris right now in Pennsylvania. Tonight she heads to Wisconsin. Trump is also gearing up for another event in Wisconsin right now. As expected, with less than a week to go, we've heard both candidates speaking about issues such as inflation and immigration. Today, Harris and Trump have also both addressed these comments from President Biden, which have become a major storyline in the race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And just the other day, a speaker at his rally called Puerto Rico a floating island of garbage. Well, let me tell you something. I don't know the Puerto Rican that I know or Puerto Rico where I'm from in my home state of Delaware, they're good, decent, honorable people. The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters. His demonization is unconscionable and it's un-American.
It's totally contrary to everything we've done, everything we've been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Yikes. President Biden making those remarks during a Voto Latino get out the vote call meant to help Vice President Harris. Although I doubt that was the kind of help Harris is looking for. This morning she had to address what Biden said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENTI OF THE UNITED STATES: First of all, he clarified his comments. But let me be clear, I strongly disagree with any criticism of people based on who they vote for. I believe that the work that I do is about representing all the people, whether they support me or not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: And now sources tell CNN that senior campaign officials are hearing from Democrats who want President Biden to just disappear from public view for the next six days. One former Biden administration official calling the latest gaffe, quote, "infuriating," adding, quote, "nobody wants him out there," unquote. The White House is trying to clean up Biden's comments. They insist that he meant not that Trump's supporters are garbage, but that Trump supporter apostrophe s, as in one comedian who made the garbage joke rather than supporters with no punctuation. Either way, the most charitable interpretation of the Biden remarks is that he gave the strong impression that he thinks roughly 75 million Americans Trump supporters are garbage.
The least charitable interpretation, which he denies he meant, is that he actually thinks that Trump supporters are garbage. The comments do underline why Mr. Biden is no longer the Democratic nominee. They underline why the Harris campaign is reluctant to deploy him on the campaign trail. And they underline why, even for some elected officials who are Democrats, there are questions about Mr. Biden currently occupying the Oval Office. The Trump campaign is now, of course, fundraising off of Biden's comments, and Trump is using the remarks to try to rally his base.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Joe Biden finally said what he and Kamala really think of our supporters. He called them garbage. And they mean it, even though without question, my supporters are far higher quality than Crooked Joe or Lion Kamala.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's bring in our CNN correspondents covering the presidential race. Jeff Zeleny, you're with the Harris campaign in Madison, Wisconsin. How much have these comments become a distraction, a problem for the vice president?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, Jake, Vice President Harris and her team clearly wanted to be talking about the big speech she gave last night in Washington as she took her campaign back to the road. Instead, the first thing she had to do was disassociate herself from the president's remarks. But beyond that, there is no doubt when you talk to advisers privately, they wish President Biden wouldn't have said it. They do believe it's a motivating factor for Trump supporters, but they do not believe there is any significant long term political damage. Why?
[17:05:02]
Because this race is locked in. It is a turnout race. By now, people largely believe that President Biden misspoke once again. But it is cleanup aisle for the president. And that's not what Vice President Harris wanted to do.
What she wants to do in her closing days here is really try and extend a bit of unity. And that becomes much more difficult when President Biden said what he did. But when we saw the vice president earlier today in North Carolina, she again reiterated her message how she would be the president for those who vote for her and those who don't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Here is my pledge to you, as your president, I pledge to seek common ground and common sense solutions to the challenges you face. I am not looking to score political points, I am looking to make progress. And I, I pledge to you, I will listen to experts, I will listen to those impacted by the decisions I make.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ZELENY: So the question here in the closing days of this race, it is a turnout game. And for Democrats and Independents and even some moderate Republicans, the Harris campaign is all in trying to go after them. It is unlikely that President Biden's comments are going to damage that effort. However, it does motivate Trump supporters. So, Jake, the bottom line on this is, we are unlikely to see President Biden campaign in any major way between now and Election Day.
TAPPER: And Kristen Holmes, you're a little over 130 miles away in Wisconsin, in Green Bay. You're covering the Trump campaign. It is a little rich for Trump who suggested that people who are going to vote for Harris are the enemy within to take issue with this. But what are you planning -- what are you hearing about how they plan to try to capitalize on Biden's remarks?
KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jake, you just stole my line.
TAPPER: Oh, I apologize.
HOLMES: I was going to say that after I threw to my sound afterwards. So I'll have to get back to that later. But what I'm going to say is that Donald Trump, this is clearly somewhat of a gift from Joe Biden. Donald Trump's team is taking this and they are running with it.
Let's talk about how we spent the last three days. So the last three days talking about racist and vile remarks that were the pre-program leading up to Donald Trump's Madison Square Garden rally. This is the opportunity for them to try and flip the script, to try and change that narrative and to seize on this the same way that they seized on the similar comments from Hillary Clinton back in 2016 when she said that the Trump supporters were a basket of deplorables. So here's something else he said today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: You can't lead America if you don't love Americans. You can't be president if you hate the American people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HOLMES: Now, back to your original point, this is obviously Donald Trump, the same person who has said the Democrats are the enemy within, who have spent the last year and a half attacking Democrats and anyone who supports them. But they are trying to take this to push turnout. They are trying to motivate their base and Republicans to push them to the polls for early voting and on November 5th. And they are hoping this gives a little more incentive to those voters who might have been wanting to sit at home, Jake.
TAPPER: And MJ Lee, who reported on this last night and also brought us a great reporting on Democrats freaking out or upset, I should say, about the comments that Joe Biden made, people talking about how they wanted to go away. I mean, Biden has acknowledged, and this is long before he was in his 80s, that he's a gaffe machine. I mean, I've been covering him for 25 years. He is prone to this kind of remark, but really a horrible time for him to do this.
MJ LEE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, we are in the final stretch where plenty of voters are still making up their minds. And the Harris campaign does not want any distractions, unforced errors. They do not want to give the Trump team any fresh ammunition. And look, transcript or no transcript, apostrophe or no apostrophe, I think you put it best when you said, I think at best.
We saw a clear reminder last night of how the president is no longer a clear and effective and cogent messenger for the party. And that, by the way, is why he is no longer the nominee. It is why he is not campaigning every day really out there alongside the vice president. And what I have been picking up on is a lot of exasperation from Democrats. And most of it is quiet.
They're not out there trying to bash the president out in public, but they're exasperated, they're frustrated and they're concerned because, again, they do not want any kind of distraction like this when it is so late in the game. Some Democrats, I was told, have been actually asking the campaign seriously, is there some way to try to get the president to be out of the public spotlight for the remaining six days leading up to the election. One former administration official was saying, you know, they're furious. And they said nobody wants him out there. I think what is further fueling the sense of freak out and frustration is the sense that, yes, he may have misspoken, but are we seriously comparing what the president said to the years of racist, misogynistic, offensive comments that we have seen Donald Trump spewing for a long time?
[17:10:19]
I think they see this clearly as an apples to oranges comparison. TAPPER: I certainly understand that sentiment, but that doesn't mean we in the media don't cover it when the president seems to insult 75 million Americans.
LEE: Yes, I agree. I agree with you, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, MJ, Jeff and Kristen, thanks so much. Appreciate it.
Joining us now, Democratic Senator Alex Padilla from California, who's no doubt, excited to join this conversation at this particular moment.
Senator, your response to President Biden's comments and the reaction.
SEN. ALEX PADILLA (D-CA): Obviously, unfortunately, he clarified, as you mentioned just a minute ago, he's been known as the gaffe machine for years and years. And so let's move on, let's move forward and remind everybody entertaining this conversation who the two candidates are. Next Tuesday, if not beforehand, through early voting, people are choosing between Kamala Harris and Donald Trump. And so that's where the focus ought to be. Let's look at what their closing arguments are.
Let's look at what their track record has been. And if you ask me, the contrast and the choice couldn't be clearer. Clearly, Kamala Harris is my choice for next president of the United States, and I think in our country's best interest, Donald Trump just too dangerous.
TAPPER: Last night, Vice President Harris delivered an address with the White House as a backdrop. She had this to say about the issue of immigration. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: When I was attorney general of a border state, I saw the chaos and violence caused by transnational criminal organizations that I took on. And when I am president, we will quickly remove those who arrive here unlawfully, prosecute the cartels and give border patrol the support they so desperately need.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: You represent a border state in the Senate, do you think that's the right message? Is the answer to solve -- is that the answer to solve this major problem across the country?
PADILLA: By the way, the same border state that Kamala Harris represented in the United States Senate and as attorney general. The issue of immigration and the need for immigration reform is complex and we need some comprehensive action. But if the question is still out there in some people's minds whether Kamala Harris or Democrats are, quote, unquote, "soft on the border," you got your answer. We do need a safe border, an orderly border and a humane border. And she has the experience to make it happen.
Having prosecuted transnational gangs as attorney general is a great foundation for a thoughtful, strategic approach to immigration. Not the bombast we hear from Donald Trump. Remember, he's the one that killed that bipartisan bill that came to the Senate. He's the one that has been vilifying immigrants not just from Mexico, but from around the world. And he's promised mass deportations, the one that would wreck communities, tear apart families and wreak havoc on the economy. The choice once again can't be clearer, Kamala Harris is the way to go.
TAPPER: Perhaps the number one issue on voters' minds is the economy. Where Trump out polls Kamala Harris. We saw positive GDP numbers today driven by consumer spending. Gas prices are down in many parts of the country, below $3 a gallon in many parts of the country. But we regularly continue to see polls registering voter's dissatisfaction with the Biden Harris record and with how Harris would handle the economy compared to President Trump.
What do Democrats need to do to convince voters that Kamala Harris will actually be in their financial best interest?
PADILLA: Yes. So a couple of things, Jake. I think that misperception is a product of a lot of, you know, misinformation, the Republican propaganda machine, when the true data is clear. Record sustained low unemployment during the Biden Harris administration. Inflation is back under control.
But again, looking forward, what can we expect under Donald Trump? Tax cuts for the rich and the largest corporations in America. Tariffs are going to raise prices on everything for everyone. Or under Kamala Harris, a strategic, thoughtful plan to tackle grocery prices, to tackle the housing costs, to tackle, you know, all the things that we care about at the end of the month for most working families trying to balance their accounts and pay the bills.
TAPPER: All right, Democratic Senator Alex Padilla of California, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
Next, we're going to get a Republican response of sorts from Texas Congressman Dan Crenshaw. What does he think a second Trump administration might look like? Is he on board with his party's news plans? Plus, the Terminator weighs in, making an official endorsement in the presidential race. A quick break and then I'll be back.
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[17:18:57]
TAPPER: We're back with our 2024 lead with just six days left until Election Day. Let's talk about what could happen if Donald Trump wins the White House. Here now, Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw of Texas, who also served as an agency SEAL officer. Thanks for joining us, Congressman.
So at Trump's rally at Madison Square Garden, Elon Musk, big supporter of the president, was asked how much money he would cut from the Biden-Harris budget because Trump is going to allow him to be some sort of efficiency guru for the government if Trump is elected. Here's what Elon Musk had to say. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELON MUSK, ENTREPRENEUR, TRUMP SUPPORTER: Well, I think we can do at least 2 trillion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
MUSK: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So cutting 2 trillion. And then a user on Axe or Twitter said, quote, "there will be an initial severe overreaction in the economy, this economy propped up with debt generating asset bubbles and artificially suppressed wages as a result of illegal immigration. Markets will tumble." And to -- that's not Elon Musk, but Musk replied to that saying, "Sounds about right."
So, you are a member of Congress. You guys are the ones that get to decide what's in the budget, what's not in the budget. How do you feel about Elon Musk coming in? I'm sure that you support a more balanced budget, but this unelected official doing it.
[17:20:10]
REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX), INTELLIGENCE COMMITTEE: Well, I mean, he would have no power to -- I do think Elon would have an amazing role in the administration. Now, is it just kind of randomly looking around and cutting things? I'm not so sure it's that. But you look at a guy like Elon who's built such amazing businesses, taking such amazing risks, and he has a reputation for making whatever that business is a heck of a lot more efficient. And so, putting him in a position where he can create efficiencies is not the craziest thing in the world to think about.
It's a pretty good idea. I would love to see him work on things like how do we make our acquisition and contracting process in the Department of Defense more efficient so that we're not spending 10 times what we need to spend on whatever weapon system or even remodeling a bathroom cost 20 times more than it should when you're talking about government contracting. So, there's a lot of space for thinkers like him, honestly.
TAPPER: Last Friday, Musk said this about slashing the federal budget during a telephone town hall on Twitter or X. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MUSK: We have to reduce spending to live within our means, and, you know, that necessarily involves some temporary hardship, but it will ensure long-term prosperity.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So, I guess my question is, do you think that the people voting for Trump understand this, quote, unquote, "temporary hardship" that will come, at least according to Elon Musk?
CRENSHAW: I don't know, and I don't know what he means by temporary hardship, right? Look, this is a longer conversation, Jake, and I know we've talked about it before, but the true problem with our debt and our spending has to do with mandatory spending, things you don't even vote on. And that mandatory spending about is about 70 percent of our federal spending, and that's Social Security, that's Medicare, that's Medicaid. So yes, if you start to reform those or cut those, there's going to be pain. Now, I don't think that's what he's proposing because I know President Trump doesn't even support touching those programs.
But for people from my generation, we're worried we're never going to have those programs because -- and there's for demographic reasons and mathematical reasons why that's true. So there needs to be a more serious conversation in America about what our spending is, where it's going. The truth about where it's going. You know, everybody wants to think that it's in a program that doesn't affect them, but the truth is, it's not. Most of our mandatory spending is indeed in the form of payouts to our senior citizens.
And, you know, we decided a long time ago we want to keep those, but we have to make them sustainable. So look, there's so much devil in the details here when you talk about spending ways. I could talk about it for an hour and I don't know. -- I know we don't have that much time.
TAPPER: No, but it is something that I agree with you on. These are not sustainable programs as of right now.
Let me ask you about another idea more close to home. It's more close to Texas that President Trump has floated, which was added into the 2024 Republican Party platform, which says, quote, "Republicans will mobilize military personnel and assets as necessary to crack down hard on the cartels that traffic drugs and people into our country." President Trump said something about this the other day at Mar-a-Lago. We mentioned that you served as a Navy SEAL. You represent a border state.
How would it work to deploy military assets to go after cartels? I'm not saying -- I'm not judging it. I'm just wondering, how was that working in the United States, in Mexico? Explain.
CRENSHAW: Yes, and I'm trying to figure out where they got this idea from. Oh, yes, it was me.
TAPPER: Right.
CRENSHAW: I'm the one who introduced that bill and authorized use of military force against the cartel. So what does that look like in practice? Because all the headlines, you know, from provocateurs in Mexico that were, you know, on the side of President AMLO, thank God he's gone. And you're kind of far left activists here in the U.S. they said, well, we're going to invade Mexico. These crazy Republicans want to invade Mexico. Of course, that's not what we're thinking above. What we want is a same kind of relationship that we have with so many other allies across the world. Colombia is probably the best example. So, for 30 plus years, we've had a massive military presence in Colombia. We work alongside them, we train them, we give them resources.
We had a name for it, it's called Plan Colombia. And that turned from a, almost a failed state in the 90s to what it is now. And I grew up there, went to high school there, so I know it pretty well. That's the kind of thing that we envision with Mexico. We want a partner.
We want a partner. And this is actually is not a Democrat or Republican issue, this has long been a Mexican government issue, refusing to allow that partnership. We need to change that. I hope the new administration in Mexico realizes that. I think it'll better than the last one.
You know, they were just -- the new president, Claudia Sheinbaum, was just inaugurated in October. I do have some hope. And I've actually put an amendment into this year's NDAA that asks NORTHCOM. So NORTHCOM is the military command in charge of North America, which includes Mexico, I've asked them to put together a report on -- look, if Mexico would let us help them, what kind of resources would best suited for that mission and how would we do it? We already work with them a lot, but we need a lot more because we need to actually deter the cartels.
[17:25:21]
The cartels need to think that Navy SEALs are actually coming after them. That's the bottom line. That's deterrence. And when we create that deterrence, we get the cartels to rethink their business model and we get them to rethink putting fentanyl, a poison into our streets and lacing our drugs with it and killing our kids. That's the ultimate end goal here, a more prosperous, safer Mexico, not infringing on their sovereignty.
Any kind of military action would be done by, with and through the Mexican government. There's no question about that. But we need to act because there are too many places in Mexico that are simply not governed by the government.
TAPPER: Republican Congressman Dan Crenshaw of Texas, thank you so much. Good to see you as always.
CRENSHAW: Thanks, Jake.
TAPPER: Every day there are at least a handful of new polls in the presidential race. Plus, you've got polls for the House races, the Senate races, the governor's races, races on the state and local level, we're breaking down just how accurate they are. Stay with us.
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[17:30:34]
TAPPER: And we're back sticking with our 2024 Lead. Poll after poll show just how exceedingly tight this presidential race is according to polls, especially in critical battleground states. Polls, of course, are not 100 percent far from it. CNN senior data reporter, Harry Enten, is at the Magic Wall. Harry, some polls in past races have been way off the mark. Why?
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR DATA REPORTER: Why? Because as I say here on this slide, polls are a signal. They ain't Nostradamus, my dear friend. They ain't Nostradamus. They take a sample of the population. You don't necessarily know who's going to turn out and vote on Election Day. And so, I want to put in some simple stats for you. Get your audience to understand that polls are far from perfect.
All right, so how much was the average state polling average missed by since 1972 in the key battleground states? Well, the average error is 3.4 points. My goodness gracious. All the polls right now are well within the -- the poll averages in the key battleground states. How about your, quote unquote, margin of error that your 95 percent confidence interval. It's even wider than that.
Get this 5 percent of polls in the key battleground states, those polling averages, get this, missed by more than 9.4 percentage points. So even if you have say a 6 point lead in a -- in a -- in a key state, that ain't necessarily safe. But the 3.4 points I think is very key because I want to apply this 3.4 points to the electoral map right now.
So let's say we have an average polling miss and the polls are understating Kamala Harris and she benefits from an average polling miss. Well, what happens? Well, she carries all these Great Lake battleground states. She carries the key states down in the Southeast. She carries Nevada and Arizona out here in the Southwest and she gets to get this. It's a blowout. It's a relative blowout, Jake. It's 319 electoral votes for Kamala Harris compared to 219 electoral votes for Donald Trump.
Of course, we remember the last two times, right? We remember 2016. We remember 2020 when the polls understated Donald Trump. What happens if the polls do that again and we have an average state polling this that benefits Donald Trump? Well, get this, Donald Trump gets up to 312 electoral votes. He's the one that gets over 300 electoral votes. Why? Because he carries all the Great Lake battleground states, he carries the Southeast battleground states, and he carries Nevada and Arizona out here in the Southwest.
The bottom line is poll after poll after poll have shown this race to be way too close to call. But polls are imperfect. If we have an average polling miss, don't be surprised if either Kamala Harris wins easily or in the case of this battleground map, Donald Trump wins rather easily. Jake?
TAPPER: That's why I stopped using polls last week. Harry Enten, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Let's bring back Chuck and Jonah. And Jonah, you know what was not on my bingo card today was Arnold Schwarzenegger, who has never publicly endorsed a Democrat for president. He came out and said he's voting for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz. JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I don't know who it moves. I don't know what anything other than ground game stuff moves in any way. Endorsements generally don't matter. So, I -- I don't know. I'm still -- I just realized that Harry Enten Sounds like a 1930s Hollywood gangster movie character. You see? You see, I've -- I -- I've never noticed it before. I was mesmerized.
TAPPER: He is rather mesmerizing. I -- I -- I agree. Do you think Arnold Schwarzenegger moves anybody? Do you think any of these endorsements we're seeing whether it's Buzz Aldrin, the astronaut, endorsing Donald Trump, one of George W. Bush's daughters, Barbara, endorsed Kamala Harris. She's door knocking. Do -- do -- does any of it matter?
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: No. In my 35 years of doing this work, I've never seen something really move somebody from a star perspective. But speaking of polls, there was a poll done of men, registered men. We know Democrats have a problem with the men vote of 1,351 registered men in the country, the number one most popular star is Samuel L. Jackson. Number two is Shaquille O'Neal. And number three is Arnold Schwarzenegger. So, I'd rather have somebody in the top three than nobody.
But in reality, the real help that we need are moderate Republicans who voted for Nikki Haley. He was a Republican. Arnold -- what does it move? Somebody to know. But I'd rather have his endorsement than not have his endorsement.
GOLDBERG: There was an academic study on this and basically, with the exception of Oprah's endorsement of Obama, which gave all sorts of permission structure to leave Hillary, endorse -- celebrity endorsements have not mattered.
ROCHA: Also, I'd give the anomaly of Bad Bunny and Puerto Rican voters. You've never met a Puerto Rican in my life who did not love Bad Bunny.
TAPPER: Is that right? Do you think it actually could have an influence?
ROCHA: Absolutely. The --
[17:35:01]
TAPPER: OK. Well, let me ask you about Nikki Haley, because you just brought up Nikki Haley. And -- and -- why -- where -- why wasn't Nikki Haley in Madison Square Garden?
TAPPER: Like what -- I -- I -- I -- Megyn Kelly had a really interesting point, which is you've gotten the bros to the Trump campaign. You've got the men. And that event was, there was stuff there beyond just the insulting jokes by a roast comedian. It was very bro was her argument. It was very male. Very -- and like you got them.
GOLDBERG: Yes. TAPPER: You should be reaching out to the people who are, you know, who are likely to maybe not follow the lead of, but they care about Liz Cheney or Nikki Haley. What do you think of that?
GOLDBERG: Yes, I was talking to somebody who follows this stuff pretty closely recently and his theory is that this was a Don Jr. joint and that, you know, you could probably, on the -- in backstage, Don Jr. was probably chest pumping people with all those great jokes and all that kind of thing. And they have a theory. It's -- it's the theory that brought them, that made them pick JD Vance is that they have -- they think that the voters they need to get are the low propensity dudes who are on a couch and convince them to -- to actually vote.
I think, you know, Nikki Haley's position is politically smart. She's like, I'm happy to help, but you got to ask me.
TAPPER: Right.
GOLDBERG: Which basically guarantees she will not be at that or that she won't help because Trump will never ask her.
TAPPER: And Nikki Haley went on "Fox" and basically said what Megyn Kelly did, which is you got to reach women.
ROCHA: She wants to go out there.
TAPPER: Yes.
ROCHA: And for Democrats, there are 47,000 people in Wisconsin who voted for Nikki Haley. We all know the margins there, was like 10,000 votes. It matters in Pennsylvania was even more. And she had dropped out for a month and still got like 60,000 votes. Those folks vote too. These are not like low propensity folks of color are these young 20- year-old men who ain't going to vote. Working middle class women in the suburbs of Philly, they're going to go vote. And that's her voters.
TAPPER: Why --
GOLDBERG: Go ahead.
TAPPER: No -- no just why aren't they reaching out to Nikki Haley and asking her, the Trump people?
GOLDBERG: They've got a theory that they don't need to, that they are not looking. Both campaigns are looking for completely different universes of voters. The theory of the Harris people is that it's sort of centrist, moderates, suburbanites, Nikki Haley voter type. And the Trump people have a theory that it's this hidden, you know, proletariat that they -- that only they can arouse.
TAPPER: The YouTubers, the Joe Rogan listeners.
ROCHA: Yes. And let's not fool ourselves, it's Donald Trump. He -- she ran against him. It hurt his feelings. It's not what he does like -- he don't apologize and he don't like people who run against him. TAPPER: I guess we'll see whose theory is correct. Thanks to both you for being here.
Coming up next, a devastating story from ProPublica about a woman in Texas who died after doctors delayed medical care as she suffered a miscarriage. The reporter behind this story joins us live next to explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:41:48]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So I believe in the fundamental freedom of Americans to make decisions about their own bodies and not have their government tell them what to do.
I will fight to restore what Donald Trump and his hand-selected Supreme Court justices took away from the women of America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: That's Vice President Harris there from her speech at the Ellipse last night, trying to draw a contrast between herself and Donald Trump on the issue of abortion rights after the fall of Roe v. Wade. In Texas, a tragic story highlights the impact of some abortion laws. ProPublica chronicled a mother named Josseli Barnica who wanted nothing more than to bring a second child into her family. But she died of sepsis.
ProPublica reports this was after hospital staff waited 40 hours to intervene in her miscarriage. They believed any treatment they gave her could potentially be considered a crime, according to Texas law. Here to talk more about this is Cassandra Jaramillo, who reported on this case for ProPublica. Cassandra, thanks so much. So walk us through what you learned about the treatment delays that ultimately led to Josseli's death and -- and why this happened under Texas law.
CASSANDRA JARAMILLO, REPORTER, PROPUBLICA: Yes, Jake, thanks for having us. Josseli Barnica in her 17th week of pregnancy went to the hospital in Houston complaining of cramping and -- and bleeding. And very quickly the doctors realized she was having a miscarriage and she was admitted into the hospital. And at that time, when she's getting evaluated, her cervix is dilated to 9 centimeters. It's a very complicated miscarriage happening.
And yet at the same time, the doctors waited for 40 hours. By the next day, they knew that this was going to be an inevitable miscarriage. And the important thing to note here is that there was no saving that pregnancy in -- at 17 weeks, that fetus was not going to be viable. And we talked to more than a dozen experts who reviewed the facts of this case that said that when you have a patient in these circumstances, there's one of two things you offer, you either speed up the delivery or you provide an abortion to -- to take out the pregnancy tissue that's within the uterus. And that clearly did not happen here and led to a tragic death of a 28-year-old mother --
TAPPER: Yes.
JARAMILLO: -- and wife who was very loved.
TAPPER: Sepsis is -- is so horrible and -- and kills so many people, especially in these circumstances. But I have to ask you, were the doctors actually barred from performing an abortion according to Texas law, or were they because of confusion about the law, were they worried that they were barred from providing that care, but not actually barred?
JARAMILLO: It's a good question, Jake. We made several attempts to reach the doctors that were a part of Josseli Barnica's case to ask them to shed light on what happened here. We do know that two days before Josseli goes to the hospital that the Texas abortion ban law goes into effect which states that if there is cardiac fetal activity in a pregnancy after six weeks, it is against the law to terminate that pregnancy.
[17:45:12]
And so -- the timeline here with Josselli's tragic miscarriage and then death certainly raises questions about what was going through the minds of these doctors at the time when she's in the hospital. She is not facing an imminent medical emergency, which is the medical exception in Texas law. She's technically stable. Now, the law doesn't account for emergencies that can happen, which is tragically what occurred in Josseli Barnica's case in a big picture sense.
TAPPER: In a big picture sense, how have these new Texas abortion laws and bans impacted maternal healthcare across the state? And -- and what are doctors and hospitals saying about their role under these laws? The role is to save lives.
JARAMILLO: I think one thing is really important about Josseli Barnica's case and also the other story that ProPublica will be reporting here is that these are women who did not want abortions. They wanted these pregnancies. However, because as they are miscarrying, the fetus technically still has a cardiac, a -- a heartbeat. And it's noted throughout her medical records in that case. So the Texas law does not specify this gray area of miscarriages.
Now, after Josseli's death, the Texas Medical Board did provide some guidance with ectopic pregnancies and a condition known as PPROM, which is when a woman's water breaks earlier than expected. However, there's -- there's no indication even with the clarified guidance that that would have done anything for Josseli. Because again, that fetus still had a heartbeat. But medically speaking, the doctors know that -- that -- that fetus isn't going to survive.
TAPPER: Cassandra Jaramillo from ProPublica, thank you so much. Really appreciate your time. We'll be right back.
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[17:51:25]
TAPPER: In our Health Lead slivered onions are likely the source of E. coli in McDonald's Quarter Pounders. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention announced today. The outbreak which has sickened at least 90 people, has many of you asking questions about foodborne illness. Thankfully, we have Dr. Sanjay Gupta on call to give us some answers. Sanjay, many of our viewers, such as Melissa, wanted to know how to decrease one's chance of getting a foodborne illness.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this is probably the most common question we got. No surprise again, given as we talked about yesterday, nearly 50 million people deal with this every year. It's an extraordinary number, Jake, if you think about it.
The -- the basics really do apply here and we can tell you what some of those things are, obviously in terms of clean -- cleanliness, cleaning your own hands, cleaning fruits and vegetables, making sure you separate proteins versus vegetables. I think the -- the key is when you look at this to make sure that you remember that just a small number of bacteria can actually cause illness. And the longer the food stays out -- it really can sort of multiply exponentially these bacteria. So that's really the key thing to remember as you look at the list of things.
One other thing, most foodborne illness that we find now, looking at the data, Jake, is occurring outside the home. It's in restaurants, delis, buffet -- buffet halls, things like that. There is such a thing known as the danger zone in the food preparation world. And that's really between 40 and 140 degrees.
So, if you're getting cold food, it should be colder than 40 degrees. If you're getting warm food, it should be steaming hot, greater than 140 degrees. Do those things that will go a long way towards keeping you safe.
TAPPER: Let me ask you about this one because Debbie asks about what she calls not me, an old wives tale. For the record, that's Debbie's term, not mine, that says you should stay away from seafood in any month without an R in it. She says on the four occasions that I did eat outside this rule, I got sick every time. Is there any sort of -- of -- of proof to this? For instance, eating seafood in June because it doesn't have an R in it?
GUPTA: Yes, I guess May, June, July, August, right? I guess those are the months that we're talking about, the warm weather months. And -- and what I would say is that there -- there used to be some truth to this and it was primarily around oysters as opposed to all seafood. But I guess you could see how all could apply and that really had to do with refrigeration. That -- that's the big concern.
If you were pulling out oysters in the cooler months, they were less likely to actually become contaminated with a particular bacteria known as Vibrio bacteria. So people still develop this infection, although a lot less nowadays because of refrigeration. That goes back to the basics again, Jake, in terms of preventing foodborne illness.
TAPPER: Right. And maybe don't get clams casino at a truck stop. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
[17:54:23]
Big news for the Menendez brothers in their quest to be re sentenced. That story's next.
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TAPPER: Last Leads now. And we start with our World Lead. Flash floods in Spain have killed at least 95 people and dozens more are reportedly missing. A year's worth of rain fell in a day in Valencia, Spain's third largest city, where the majority of the death happened. Streets turned into rushing rivers. Cars were piled up and flipped over. It was Spain's deadliest flood in decades.
In our Law and Justice Lead, an update now on the Menendez brothers, a hearing has been set. A hearing date has been set for them and they're pushed to be re-sentenced. They are serving life for killing their parents in 1989. Last week, as you might recall, the Los Angeles district attorney requested that they get the possibility. Today a judge announced he will hear the case on December 11th. Under California's youthful parole law, they could go free relatively quickly since the brothers were under the age of 26 when the murders were committed.
And by now, you've seen this video from last night's World Series game two stooges, I mean, Yankees fans egregiously mishandling Dodgers right fielder Mookie Betts in the middle of the play. Yankees fan's going to Yankee fan. Now we know the punishment. It is not a lifetime ban. They're only banned from tonight's game. Damn Yankees. But if the Dodgers win tonight, they win the World Series effective -- effectively banning all Yankees fans from at least a happy subway ride home.
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You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, formerly known as Twitter and on the TikTok at JakeTapper. You can follow the show on X at TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show whence you get your podcasts. The news continues now on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. I'll see you tomorrow.
