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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Picks RFK Jr. For Health &Human Services Secretary; Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, (D-WA), Is Interviewed About Winning Reelection. Rep. Marie Gluesenkamp Perez (D-WA), Is Interviewed About Winning Reelection In Rural, Red District; "The Onion" Wins "Infowars" Auction With Backing From Sandy Hook Families; Republicans Split Over Trump's Call For Recess Appointments. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 14, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:01:11]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we're going to start this hour with the breaking or I say shocking news, the latest provocative pick from President-elect Donald Trump just moments before we came on air today, we learned that he was about to officially tap Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. And just a few minutes later, he made that announcement official. Let's go right to CNN's Kristen Holmes.

Kristen, Trump has praised RFK Jr. throughout the campaign, especially after he endorsed him. What's the thinking behind the pick? What are you hearing?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, I'm hearing the same thing about RFK Jr. that I had heard really across the board about many of these controversial picks, which is that Donald Trump feels emboldened and empowered by the fact that he won the popular vote. He feels that this has given him a mandate to actually deliver on the promises that he said he was going to deliver on on the campaign trail. What's so fascinating about this? There been much speculation about the relationship between Donald Trump and RFK Jr. particularly because many people close to Donald Trump believed that he needed the help of RFK Jr. to win over specific demographics, one of them being independent voters, one of them being suburban women. Because of the fact that RFK had focused so much on this Make America Healthy Again agenda.

Talking about vaccine. There is a population of the United States who believes that nobody should get vaccines. RFK Jr. has perpetuated that theory, saying at times, without evidence that vaccines lead to autism. Some of just the bare minimum of the controversial things that RFK Jr. has said. But on the campaign trail, Donald Trump often said that RFK Jr. was going to lead the health agenda for the Make America Great Again administration, for Donald Trump's administration.

And I'm told that this is him delivering on that promise. One of the things that Donald Trump has spent a lot of time doing is thanking the people around him, and that includes RFK Jr. who really spent an enormous amount of time campaigning for Donald Trump, both by Donald Trump's side and also just by himself out there trying to meet with voters.

Now, one interesting thing I want to point out here, there was a lot of speculation that he was kind of going to get pushed to the side, particularly given the fact that he's so controversial and many people think he can't get confirmed in Congress. And in fact, in an interview with our own Kaitlan Collins, Howard Lutnick, the head of the transition team, kind of laughed off the idea that he could be secretary, that RFK could be secretary of HHS. And that was just a few weeks ago. And now here he is as the actual pick. A lot of questions as to what this means for confirmation.

But again, when we ask those questions, I'm told that the Trump team doesn't really care. They're aware that some of these candidates that they're putting up for nomination are not going to get confirmed, but they say they're going to do everything in their power to try and get them confirmed. But again, this is surprising, particularly given the conversation we were hearing around RFK that it would be so hard to confirm him. They give him some kind of czar role over all the Health Department where he would be able to do some stuff with the health agenda, but not this. And this is obviously a confirmed position or a confirmable position that he has now been nominated for.

TAPPER: So does he think he's going to get them confirmed? And how much does the president-elect want to have the Senate adjourn so that he can then just do recess appointments for them as long as he wants?

HOLMES: Well, we've obviously seen him advocating for that. I mean, these recess appointments, it's something that Donald Trump has called for. He tried to get each of the people who are running for Senate leadership to agree to it. We saw that with Rick Scott, we saw that with John Thune pushing this idea of recess appointments.

[17:05:04]

But when it comes to whether or not they're actually going to do that and whether or not Donald Trump believes or his team believe or his team believes that these people can get confirmed, they still tell me that they understand that this is just a process, that this is the beginning of the process. And there is a chance that among these very controversial picks, particularly Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr. and Matt Gaetz, that someone is not going to get confirmed. At this point, Donald Trump is just throwing it all down at the table.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes in West Palm Beach right outside Mar-a-Lago for us, thanks so much.

Here's now our panel. Kate Benningfield, let me start with you. We're getting more reaction to this pick. Surprising support for the pick from Democratic Governor Jared Polis of Colorado. He posted a very long tweet, but part of it says, "I'm excited by the news that the president-elect will appoint RFK Jr. to HHS. He helped us defeat vaccine mandates in Colorado in 2019 and will help make America healthy again by shaking up HHS and FDA. I hope he leans into personal choice on vaccines rather than bans, which I think are terrible, just like mandates, but what I'm most optimistic about is taking on Big Pharma and the corporate ag oligopoly." How do you say it?

RAMESH PONNURU, EDITOR, NATIONAL PREVIEW: Oligopoly.

TAPPER: Oligopoly. Thank you, Ramesh. "To improve our health."

Kate, I get it. I get the taking on Big Pharma and I get the ag oligopoly. But the vaccines thing, I really have a tough time with that.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes, I was really surprised by this. I mean, I think coming right out of the gate with a statement that really embraces where RFK Jr is on vaccines is a really odd choice. I think it's a really odd choice for a Democrat. You know, I mean, RFK Jr. is somebody who has openly doubted, criticized work to undermine science that has been established in the health field for, you know, over 100 years. I mean, I think the thing that is interesting about this, as we think about the prospects for his confirmation, you know, I'm generally of a dubious mind that there are going to be a lot of Republican senators who are going to stand up to Trump on these picks. I think we've seen in the time of Trump, that is, you know, that's not how they operate.

And given the, you know, overwhelming victory he won last week, it's, you know, reasonable to say this is what people voted for. So I'd be really surprised, except on the RFK thing, I think the notion of vaccines is personal to people. You know, you think about, you know, senators have health issues in their own families. I think that issue is personal in a way that even some of the Matt Gaetz stuff potentially is not. So I have some -- you know, I think there is a potential opening there.

But look across the board, I mean, it sort of feels like each of these Trump announcements is better for the previous one. I mean, it's like Matt Gaetz was great for Pete Hegseth, and now RFK Jr. is probably great for Matt Gaetz. So, we'll see.

TAPPER: Yes, I mean, I can't help but think about Mitch McConnell, the former Senate majority leader, former Senate Republican leader who suffers from polio that he suffered as a child.

BEDINGFIELD: Exactly.

TAPPER: And I'm sure he has strong feelings about vaccines --

BEDINGFIELD: Exactly.

TAPPER: -- one way or the other.

Let me bring in former Congressman Adam Kinzinger. What's your take here? And do you think any Republicans will vote against any of these controversial nominees?

ADAM KINZINGER, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: I mean, I was -- you were talking about this with things like vaccines, and I'm like, you know, honestly, the dark ages, if they were alive, would be looking at this time period and going, you guys are losing your mind.

And I don't think on RFK Jr., you're going to see many Republicans oppose him. I'm hopeful, I guess, hopeful that they will oppose Matt Gaetz. I mean, this is -- I mean, yesterday, Troy Nehls, I think on to Manu Raju actually had said something like, we have to -- if Donald Trump says jump three feet high and scratch your head, we're going to jump three feet high and scratch our heads. Like, they have accepted, the House particularly, and I think the Senate, that they are not a check and balance on this administration. And so I think RFK is going to get through. Hopefully Matt Gaetz doesn't.

And the other thing I'd actually love them to conjure up some resistance on is Tulsi Gabbard, because it really puts our nation's secret at risk -- secrets at risk. But look, you know --

TAPPER: Wait. Let me just ask you why --

KINZINGER: Country voted for this.

TAPPER: Why do you think -- why do you think appointing former Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard as the Director of National Intelligence, why do you think that puts our nation's secrets at risk?

KINZINGER: Look, I mean, she's got a deep, deep affection for Vladimir Putin. She has a deep affection for Bashar al-Assad. She defended his using nerve gas on agents or on his own people. She actually when, what was it, something happened with Japan, and she had tweeted basically a reminder that Japan attacked us in World War II. I think Japan had helped Ukraine in this war. And she's been very clearly on Russia's side in Ukraine.

Does that mean she's going to reveal, you know, books of secrets? No, not necessarily. There are people that are concerned about that, I don't know enough to be concerned about that. But this will be damaging to our national security. It'll be damaging to the professionals that work every day to gather this intelligence.

[17:10:05]

And it's really just turned the government into a big game. I mean, you know, Elon Musk, naming this Department of Government Efficiency Doge because of Dogecoin. Everything is just like LOL to them. So, but you know what, America voted for it. So maybe, you know, at some point you just have touch the stove to see what it feels like when you get burned.

TAPPER: Ramesh?

PONNURU: Well, I don't think that Trump has a mandate actually to do any of this. I think, in general, the idea of a mandate is somewhat fictional. But the fact is, a lot of people who voted for Donald Trump. We're hoping that his worst instincts would be restrained. And there are two theories among Republicans about what to say anything went wrong in the first term what it was.

For Trump, it was, I was undermined by saboteurs. But a lot of Republicans think it was actually that a lot of the good in that administration came from people restraining him. Senate Republicans, if they believe the latter, they will be doing Trump a favor in the long run. They'll certainly be doing the country a favor in the long run if they say no to unqualified picks.

TAPPER: How many of the -- let's just say, take the most foremost controversial right now, Hegseth Tulsi Gabbard, RFK Jr. and Matt Gaetz. Do you think all four of them are unqualified, or what is your judgment?

PONNURU: I would put RFK Jr. and --

TAPPER: Gaetz?

PONNURU: -- and Gaetz in their own bucket. I think that there are objections to all of them, but I think those two in particular deserve the strongest opposition.

TAPPER: And Adam, Congressman Kinzinger, your expectation is that they're all going to get confirmed, or you think that some Republicans might actually stand up?

KINZINGER: No, I'd actually be surprised if Gaetz gets confirmed. That's why I was surprised he resigned the House, because he's not going to have anything to fall back on, but he'll go be a Fox News commentator or something. So I do expect that there will be resistance to him.

The rest of them, I don't know, maybe RFK Jr. I mean, is there enough -- you know, are there enough Senate Republicans left? Here's the thing. A lot of the sane Senate Republicans, particularly those that, like, voted to remove Donald Trump, they're up for reelection this year. So now it becomes a whole different ballgame. And, you know, will they resist RFK on vaccines?

I don't know. And -- but I certainly think Gaetz probably has the toughest hill to climb.

Look, you know, the dude from Fox News, Pete Hegseth, he will probably be confirmed. He'll go in there, he'll realize that a $900 billion Defense industry is different than running a platoon. And eventually, you know, he'll probably carry out all of Trump's worst instincts in the DOD that he wants and then resign for somebody that knows what they're doing. I don't know. But I don't think there's going to be any issue with Pete Hegseth getting confirmed.

TAPPER: Kate Bedingfield, is there anything Democrats can do?

BEDINGFIELD: I mean, they don't have the numbers, but so practically in the short run, no. But can they build an effective case? Can they sound the alarm where appropriate? Can they raise issues and concerns and help the American people see, you know, where they should -- where -- if these people are confirmed, they should direct their ire or blame as things unfold that people are maybe not happy with. You know, Democrats can do that and Democrats can start to lay out their own alternative positive vision.

It's never too soon to start doing that. So, you know, practically, can they do anything in the short term? No. But you know, can they impact the narrative moving forward? I hope so.

TAPPER: Well, America, I hope you like measles. Thanks to all of you.

This just in. President-elect Donald Trump has just announced a new name to be added to his incoming administration. You'll recall just 24 hours ago were telling you that Trump selected former Congressman Matt Gaetz to be his U.S. Attorney General. Next, we're going to lay out some allegations against the now former congressman which underscore one of the reasons why Gaetz is such a controversial pick. Stay with us.

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[17:18:03]

TAPPER: We have some more breaking news for you now. The House Ethics Committee is expected to discuss this long awaited ethics report investigating now former Congressman Matt Gaetz. Sources telling CNN that the committee will convene tomorrow. That's Friday morning. There are allegations of sex trafficking and sex with an underage girl.

Allegations of using his position to obstruct the investigation. The Senate will have its hands full confirming Matt Gaetz as the next U.S. Attorney General. CNN's Tom Foreman digs into all of this for us.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MATT GAETZ, (R) FORMER FLORIDA REPRESENTATIVE: It is a horrible allegation and it is a lie.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Having sex with a teenager, paying for sex, using illicit drugs, accepting improper gifts and dispensing special favors. Those are just some of the accusations that have swirled around the former Florida congressman. Matt Gaetz has always denied them, saying political enemies and even extortionists have pushed the claims.

GAETZ: I am the most investigated man in the United States Congress.

FOREMAN (voice-over): To be sure, a Justice Department probe into whether Gaetz was involved in sex trafficking produced no charges last year, even as another Florida politician in Gaetz's circle pled guilty. But there is more. Former Speaker of the House Kevin McCarthy says Gaetz helped push him out precisely because McCarthy would not derail the House probe into Gaetz's behavior.

KEVIN MCCARTHY, (R) FORMER HOUSE SPEAKER: A member of Congress wanted me to stop an ethics complaint because he slept with a 17-year-old. Did he do it or not? I don't know. But ethics is looking at it. There's other people in jail because of it.

GAETZ: Chaos is Speaker McCarthy.

FOREMAN (voice-over): A conservative firebrand, Gaetz was also a firm ally as Donald Trump faced his own legal troubles.

GAETZ: Supporting our friend, President Trump.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Standing with the embattled former president when he was convicted of dozens of felonies, which Trump also disputed.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: The people of our country know it's a hoax.

FOREMAN (voice-over): But lawmakers left and right are saying Gaetz is not Trump and they want to see the House investigation report into his behavior.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I think there should not be any limitation on the Senate Judiciary Committee's investigation, including whatever the House Ethics Committee has generated.

[17:20:06]

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Matt Gaetz has chosen to resign from the House, but he can't choose to conceal that information.

FOREMAN (voice-over): But he can choose, as he has in the past, to fight.

GAETZ: I face down tougher than these folks and I'll do it again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOREMAN (on camera): There were other allegations that Gaetz would show nude pictures and videos of women that he said he slept with on the House floor. Of course, he's denied everything, but it would be really interesting if this comes out on Friday to see if it makes any of those Republicans who are already squirming a little, squirm a lot. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Tom Foreman, thanks so much.

We have some breaking news from President-elect Trump. He's just announced who he wants to be the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York. That's a key role in the Justice Department. That pick is next.

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[17:25:15]

TAPPER: We have some more breaking news in our politics lead, another nomination from President-elect Donald Trump. On Truth Social, he writes that he's pleased to announce Jay Clayton of New York, the Chairman of the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission during my first term, where he did an incredible job, is hereby nominated to be the U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York or SDNY. Let's bring in CNN's Kara Scannell who covers SDNY quite a bit. What's the significance of this?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this office is a very important office within the Justice Department. It has a tradition of being independent and taking decisions -- making decisions that sometimes buck with what the attorney general wants to do. But this is the office that has prosecuted Michael Cohen. They're currently prosecuting Sean Diddy Combs. It's a significant post in the administration. And Jay Clayton would, if confirmed or if appointed during a recess, would be the first lawyer to lead that office who is not a prosecutor, has never been a prosecutor in that office.

And another significant individual that Trump is nominating or putting forward that would buck the tradition because SDNY, that long tradition in that office is to have an alumni run it. And Jay Clayton hasn't been that. And he is a respected lawyer. He's a corporate lawyer. He's represented financial institutions for years.

He did run the Securities and Exchange Commission in Trump's first administration without much controversy. He's been credited as being someone who is able to navigate the terrain of what can be sometimes complicated politics. So, you know, if he's likely to get the position, it seems, but, you know, a respected lawyer, but not someone who has worked in that office before. So how that is received by the prosecutors in the office and what decisions he makes on cases will obviously be very important going forward, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kara Scannell, thanks so much.

Let's bring in Congresswoman Marie Gluesenkamp Perez of Washington State. She's one of the few House Democrats who won in a district where Trump also won.

Congratulations on your reelection. I know it was tough. There's only three House Democrats that were elected that are from districts that Trump won also where you captor, and Jared Golden in Maine, second.

REP. MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ (D-WA): Yes.

TAPPER: How'd you do it? What's the lesson for the Democratic Party writ large?

GLUESENKAMP PEREZ: Well, where I live, I think we're really tired of having, you know, a set of talking points and priorities and values imported from Washington D.C. to our home. And we want to see our values and priorities reflected and advanced in Washington D.C. not the other way around. Like, we've got to flip that stream of influence because the things that we care about are not often talked about in national media.

Right now, in one of my largest hospitals, 40 percent of the babies born have at least one parent addicted to fentanyl.

TAPPER: Forty percent?

GLUESENKAMP PEREZ: Forty percent. It is ravaging a lot of rural America. And take people seriously like it is everywhere. Take it seriously, listen to them. That is real empathy.

We want good jobs that don't require a college degree. We want to get our family business to the next generation. You know, we want to have strong regional economies. In my state, Washington State, the second largest emitter of CO2 is wildfire. And one of my school districts just went down to a four day school week because of falling revenue from timber harvest, right?

So, talking about our issues, reflecting and respecting and showing up, being present, available, accountable. I live -- so before being elected, I ran auto repair in a machine shop, I live on a gravel road, my son was eight months old when I decided to run, I know how hard it is for people like me to feel heard and be heard. And so, I really focus hard on showing up. I go out to every county, hold in person town halls. It's OK to get yelled at, you know?

TAPPER: Yes.

GLUESENKAMP PEREZ: You got to listen to people and like lift up in the hood and see, like, what is the part of this argument we agree on?

TAPPER: So let me ask you a question about fentanyl, because it's certainly undercovered. One of the reasons it's undercovered is because it's tough to tell the story of people who are in the throes of addiction for any number of obvious reasons. What do you think needs to be done? Like, what do you think the government needs to be doing that it's not.

GLUESENKAMP PEREZ: Well, I was very clear that I thought the Biden administration was failing to secure the southern border. I think we needed to have --

TAPPER: I think a lot of people thought that.

GLUESENKAMP PEREZ: Yes, you know, and people where I live certainly, you know, and we felt like if this was something that was happening to people with more wealth and influence, they would have done something about it earlier.

TAPPER: Interesting. So you told the "New York Times" a story that was really interesting. It was an interaction you had with then vice president, or she's still Vice President Kamala Harris during her Naval Observatory Christmas party. And you said, quote, "I noticed that almost all the garlands were plastic. My district grows a hell of a lot of Christmas trees. I was strong armed into taking a picture. I said, Madam Vice President, we grow those where I live, meaning real, not plastic trees. And she just walked away from me. There was kind of an eye roll, maybe I didn't feel like she understood what I was trying to say."

Not to pick on Kamala Harris here in probably not her favorite month of her life, but is that emblematic of how you think Democrats in Washington look at issues that you and people like you bring up?

REP. MARIE GLUESENKAMP PEREZ (D-WA): Well, I mean, I'm not Harris and I'm not a strategist. You know, there's not like one weird trick that's going to fix the party. Like in some ways, what I'm arguing for is like a deindustrialization of politics. Like, we cannot talk about the same things to every person. We have to listen to our communities and reflect our values and our perspectives honestly and -- and -- and fiercely, you know.

And so I think there are a lot of people like me who could run and win in seats like this. We have to challenge the narrative of who is qualified and capable of legislating, you know. We want a representative body. We want people who have turned wrenches, changed diapers, you know, driven trucks. And that is how you get good legislation, and that is how you start to unwind this polarization that we're seeing.

TAPPER: I do want to ask you about one other thing, which is that not only in July did you call on President Biden to drop his reelection bid, but you suggested that if he couldn't do that, he shouldn't be president, which was a very bold and brave thing to say. And I think you're the only Democrat in Congress who -- who did it, even though there were lots of Democrats saying he needed to step -- not lots, but few -- a few Democrats and then everybody saying he needed to step down.

You said, I doubt the President's judgment about his health, his fitness to do the job. And whether he's the one making important decisions about our country. The President should do what he knows is right for the country, put the national interest first. I'm not taking issue with what you're saying. It makes sense to a lot of people, and I'm sure you heard from a lot of your constituents who said, I know what that is -- I know what that is. I have a mom, I have a dad, I have a grandma. Were you surprised that you were the only one that did that?

PEREZ: Yes, I mean, I -- I think somebody else -- I think Jared also --

TAPPER: Did Jared, do it?

PEREZ: -- placed concerns, you know.

TAPPER: OK

PEREZ: And -- and --

TAPPER: OK. So the two --

PEREZ: -- we -- we --

TAPPER: -- two people in Trump District. Yes.

PEREZ: Right. You know, what we're talking about primarily is not like political punditry. Like, I don't feel an obligation to insert myself into a national race. TAPPER: Sure.

PEREZ: I was talking about the role of presidency.

TAPPER: Yes

PEREZ: And saying that I am hearing at daycare drop off, at the grocery store. People have real profound, widely held concerns about whether the country was being properly governed. And so the -- the -- the sort of presidential race like that was not -- I did not feel a moral obligation there, but to talk --

TAPPER: You felt a moral obligation to your -- to your constituents?

PEREZ: That the -- Yes, that they were being -- that the person they voted for was the one running the show. That was the concern. And so, you know, I've -- I've been pretty committed to not inserting myself to a national presidential race.

TAPPER: No, you said that to a local newspaper. I should just point out.

PEREZ: Yes. And I -- and it wasn't about the campaign.

TAPPER: Right.

PEREZ: It was about the role of presidency.

TAPPER: Yes. No I hear you. But were you surprised that you were so alone?

PEREZ: Well, you know --

TAPPER: But to publicly say it when so many people thought it privately.

PEREZ: I -- I -- I guess -- I -- I -- I don't have a lot of preconceived like everybody should, you know, reflect their views, the views of their community. That's what I'm doing. And I -- it's not my job to tell other people how to do their jobs. I -- it's just my job to tell the truth as I'm hearing it and seeing it in my community.

TAPPER: So, you know that I think you're one of the most interesting members of Congress that we have. So, like, you want to be heard. Come here more. No -- more than once a year. OK. We would have you on every week if you wanted. Like, people need to hear from Democrats like you.

PEREZ: I -- I really appreciate that. Thank you. There's a lot of us out there. There are a lot of people just like me who could do this.

TAPPER: I don't know about that. But anyway, Democratic Congresswoman Marie Gluesenkamp Perez, thank you. Come back soon. OK. Good to see you.

Coming up, a technique President-elect Donald Trump could use to push through some of his controversial cabinet picks without Senate confirmation.

[17:33:43]

Plus, the new owner of Infowars, the website that helped Alex Jones peddle years of horrific conspiracy theories and lies. The Onion now owns Infowars. What are their plans for the site, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We turn now to our Law and Justice Lead where the story itself serves a kind of poetic justice. The Onion, the satirical website and newspaper, The Onion has taken over the website Infowars of Alex Jones, the very platform that Jones used to spread horrific conspiracy theories, including those really awful false claims about the Sandy Hook shooting being not real.

Those conspiracy theories led to tormenting people -- Jones's fans tormenting the -- the parents of -- of the people murdered in that horrific shooting, online abuse. They were trying to mourn their children's death. Some of them had to move. Eight of the Sandy Hook families who were maliciously targeted by Alex Jones' conspiracies actually backed The Onions bid, securing this victory in their long fight for accountability. Jones responded on social media today saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX JONES, INFOWARS HOST: I don't know what's going to happen. But I'm going to be here until they come in here and turn the lights off.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Lights off, buddy. The website shut down. This is what happens when you search for the site, quote, unavailable till further notice. With insights into that further notice, two of the leaders behind it all, Ben Collins, CEO of The Onion, and John Feinblatt, president of Everytown for Gun Safety, an organization works closely with the many of the Sandy Hook families to prevent future such tragedies. So, Ben, what is your -- what is your plan for the site?

BEN COLLINS, CEO, THE ONION: We're going to take it and take the universe that Alex created and just pave it over. We're going to create a new world where hopefully in a couple of years. If you think of Infowars, it will either think of this day where we pulled off this very ridiculous joke where we're able to purchase Infowars as is, or you'll think of this new site and we're going to go after all the conditions that Alex Jones creates to sell his supplements and do all of those things.

I -- I think, Jake, you know, we all -- we're all on social media, we're all on TikTok and Instagram, and there are a million little Alex Joneses out there. Each selling their own supplement or making you drink raw milk or something. They're trying to get you afraid of something and they're trying to sell you the solution. And our new website is going to tackle exactly that. And once we get it in our control, which is hopefully very soon, you guys can see what we have cooked up.

TAPPER: So, John, tell us what it's like for the families who lost their kids had to deal with Alex Jones lying about the shooting, his -- his fans and supporters tormenting them. And what's your response to Alex Jones saying he's going to be there until the lights are turned off?

[17:40:11]

JOHN FEINBLATT, PRESIDENT, EVERYTOWN FOR GUN SAFETY: Well look, I think that we all know that Alex Jones visited unspeakable harm to the Sandy Hook families. And from our point of view, if we could give them one ounce of satisfaction, one ounce of restitution, this was worth it to us. And look, some people think that the -- the alliance between Everytown and The Onion is strange bedfellows. We think just the opposite.

Look at our fingertips, Everytown's got the facts and the research and the stories and the data. But what The Onion brings is a creative way using new -- the medium of satire and humor to reach new audiences. And -- and that's how you fight misinformation. That's how you fight fear.

TAPPER: And Ben, you used to cover conspiracy theorists and misinformation at "NBC News." You've witnessed firsthand the -- the direct impact -- impact of -- of these destructive lies and toxic falsehoods. So, in addition to this fun media moment against an obvious bad guy, what is this like for you as somebody who used to fight disinformation?

COLLINS: Yes, I -- I mean, obviously it feels good. But I think in general, people need a little bit of hope right now. People need the idea that a good thing can happen. And, you know, Alex has made -- and people like him and the -- the general ecosystem that he's created have made it so the families in these situations don't even appear to be anything other than characters in his universe.

And what's great about this is the families can say, actually, you know, we're human beings. We have senses of humor. And this is a big cosmic joke to play on Alex -- Alex Jones. This is a big cosmic joke to play in that whole world. The Onion, which is known for making fun of everybody in the world, has purchased Infowars from him at a Storage Wars style auction. And boy, does that feel good.

And if -- hopefully, if you're a Sandy Hook family right now, there is, you know, a bit of cosmic justice happening here. That's why we did this thing. And we want people to feel that hope, too. We want people to feel like, hey, a good thing can possibly happen. How can we pay this forward?

TAPPER: And -- and, John, the acquisition obviously deeply symbolic for the families who -- who backed the bid. But are you concerned Alex Jones will simply find and make a new platform?

FEINBLATT: Look, I think that what our job right now, right in front of us, is to fight fear and fight misinformation. And by writing the new chapter of Infowars, that's exactly what we're doing. And that is, as you say, Jake, poetic justice. I would call it karmic justice.

TAPPER: All right, Ben Collins and John Feinblatt, thanks to you. And congratulations to you. And most importantly, congratulations to the Sandy Hook families for this moment of -- of justice in this dark, dark world.

FEINBLATT: Thank you, Jake.

COLLINS: Thanks, Jake.

[17:43:04]

TAPPER: Coming up next, the tactic that Donald Trump could use to get his controversial cabinet picks in place without having to go through that pesky Senate. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We're back with our Politics Lead in something of a head scratcher for you now. Once President-elect Trump takes office in January, he will benefit from Republic control of the House and the Senate. Theoretically, that means there shouldn't be any real issues passing his agenda, especially with the Senate confirming his cabinet still President-elect is -- is pushing the Republicans who control the Senate to forego longstanding tradition. He's asking them to recess. So he can just appoint his nominees without confirmation hearings or votes. That suggestion is getting some mixed reaction from Republicans responsible for confirming his Cabinet picks, some more controversial than others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TODD YOUNG (R-IN): It's our obligation to try and confirm these nominees quicker than we've seen in recent history.

SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): I don't think we should be circumventing the -- the Senate's responsibilities, but I think it's premature to be talking about recess appointments right now.

SEN: JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): Quite frankly, the Senate should be here, do its work. A -- a recess has to be more than two weeks already. That would say that Congress is not here already doing its task.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: All right, so Phil Mattingly, CNN's chief domestic correspondent, was following this for us. So first of all, Philip, for people at home who have lives unlike you and me, explain to them what a recess appointment is.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: It's -- it's important context because this actually exists in the Constitution. The President gets to select and nominate the officers and ambassadors, those types in his administration, and the Senate gets an advice and consent role written in there. Because of the time and because of how people traveled to the United States Congress back then. There was also a provision in the Constitution that for continuity of government purposes, if the Senate was in recess and the President needed his team in place, he could appoint them via recess. Maximum amount of time would be about two years. It would be the end of a session, which would be in this case, the end of 2026. But it was something that presidents pursued on a fairly regular basis until the first Trump administration.

TAPPER: Right. And -- and if Trump has control of the Senate, 53 votes, is that what Republicans have right now? What's the point?

MATTINGLY: So this is the question, right? You're asking the question I think a lot of Republican senators are asking right now because unlike legislation, there's not a 60 vote threshold for nominees anymore. They just need 50 votes and the Vice President to be able to confirm someone. So why, when you have the majority, your picks, your party should likely side with your picks, would you ask for this? And I think the reality is right now, as we've seen it, with two or three of his most recent picks that may not get 50 votes.

TAPPER: Matt Gaetz, RFK Jr.

MATTINGLY: Right. And -- and so what he's essentially saying is he may ask the new Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, to recess the entire Senate, something a president has never asked a Senate Majority leader to do before in order to do this. In order to do this because of the Supreme Court, they would have to be out for at least 10 days. And it would create -- in terms of separation of powers and the authority of the Senate, the advice and consent role, which you heard some of the senators take very, very seriously. It would create a massive issue for the Republican conference.

[17:50:17]

TAPPER: Have presidents used this method before, like this? Is there any precedent?

MATTINGLY: There's no precedent for a president asking the majority leader to do it just for the sole purpose of a recess appointment. Now, to be clear, before the Supreme Court decision during the Obama administration, this was done 100 plus times in both the George W. Bush administrations and in the Bill Clinton administrations.

Sometimes it's an end around for a -- a troubled nominee. A lot of times it was just to speed up the process to get a lot of people done at once. What the former president and President-elect is putting on the table right now is unprecedented.

And what he is doing is essentially challenging his new Republican majority, his allies ostensibly right out of the gate. And putting them in a position right now where they either have to move his nominees incredibly fast, even those that don't seem like they may have 50 votes right now. Or run up against a very -- very real blowup intraparty right off the bat. TAPPER: So just to be clear, other Presidents have made recess appointments. What's -- what's unprecedented is somebody doing this at the beginning of his term and specifically asking the Senate Majority Leader, please recess so I can make these appointments.

So two questions, one, has the President-elect said how many people he wants to do with this? How many, like, does he want to put his whole Cabinet there, just recess appointment, or is it just one or two? Has he made that clear at all? And -- and second, is there anything that Senate Democrats can do?

MATTINGLY: The first, we don't know what he means exactly. And I think this is part of the issues Republican senators that I've spoken to over the course of the last couple days are having, in this moment. We have a truth social post where he says that this is what he wants. He did it before the leadership elections, was trying to get commitments on what exactly --

TAPPER: And all three nominees said yes.

MATTINGLY: At least acknowledged --

TAPPER: All three candidates.

MATTINGLY: Scott said yes. Thune and Cornyn acknowledged they needed to move quickly and seemed to be open to it. Since then, I think you saw Cornyn right there and Thune has said similarly that we're going to take and process the nominations as we can.

Important context here, in about -- for the last 20 years, this has not been a practice that has been pursued often because there's been bipartisan agreement to never go into recess longer than three days, the 10-day kind of rule that the Supreme Court put in place. So this would be breaking precedent. There is no legal roadblock to this per se. Democrats would have essentially no authority.

The first challenge here would be if the president asks the Senate to recess, which again, no precedent. If Republicans have 50 votes plus the vice president, they can do so. I think the question is, given some of the prerogatives that Republican senators have already expressed wanting to maintain, would he actually have 50 votes for that?

If he doesn't, that fails. They don't recess. There is a provision in the Constitution that has never been utilized before where a president through using the House and Senate can actually unilaterally recess both chambers. I mean, it's on -- it's out there. Are -- are we going to go down that path? We don't know, but I'm -- it's out there.

TAPPER: He likes to disrupt the norms.

MATTINGLY: This would be a disruption of norms.

TAPPER: And also I would like to note that this would be a signal of thank you, sir. May I have another? Right out of the bat.

MATTINGLY: It's a challenge. He is laying out the gauntlet for Republicans right now and saying, let's see.

TAPPER: Let's see.

MATTINGLY: You want to come at me? Let's -- let's try it.

TAPPER: All right, eunuchs. Do what I want you to do. Phil Mattingly, thanks so much.

[17:53:30]

Next, an insurance scam that's straight up wild. People dressed up like bears to break into cars. See the video evidence that helped hunt down some suspected scammers. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our creative ways to get insurance Money Lead, how about dressing up like a bear and attacking cars? That's exactly what a group in Los Angeles is accused of now. CNN's Veronica Miracle has the wild story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the list of wild insurance fraud schemes, there's devious and then there's this. The California Department of Insurance released video of what maybe looks like a bear ransacking a Rolls Royce. But zoom in and you'll see the folds of fabric.

According to investigators, that's a person in a bear costume. Four people from the Los Angeles area are now accused of trying to defraud insurance companies of more than $140,000. Insurance fraud investigators say one of the suspects dressed up as a bear, used metal claws to tear up the interior and then they submitted the surveillance video as evidence.

It didn't take a team of forensic analysts to figure out this wasn't video of a real black bear. But just to be sure, investigators went one step further and enlisted a biologist for help who agreed with investigators. But don't just take their word for it. Here's the suit itself. Detectives found it while executing a search warrant.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MIRACLE: And the San Bernardino County district attorney's office says formal charges have not yet been filed, but they are expected. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Veronica, thanks so much.

You can join me -- join me for a special fundraiser happening right now, the 8th Annual Homes for Our Troops auction on eBay. You bid on items and money raised helps to build specially adapted mortgage free homes for vet -- veterans with severe wounds from Iraq and Afghanistan. There's all kind of stuff featured that you can bid on. You can have lunch with Phil Rosenthal or Erin Brockovich or showrunner David Weil or actor pretty -- Billy Crudup. Or how about dinner with Will Forte? You can do karaoke with him actually, or Lou Diamond Phillips. Check out the Featured items at ebay.com/HFOT. That's home for our troops, HFOT. The auction is open until next Thursday, November 21st. Bid, bid, bid.

[18:00:24]

If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show whence you get your podcast. The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room.