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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Tests GOP Loyalty With Controversial Cabinet Picks; Trump Picks Criminal Defense Attorneys For Key DOJ Posts; Trump Picks Rep. Matt Gaetz As Attorney General; Sen. Amy Klobuchar, (D-MN), Is Interviewed About Trump's Cabinet Picks; Checking In With Michigan Voters Who Went For Trump; TX Supreme Court Says Robert Roberson Can Be Executed. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired November 15, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:01:04]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, a major ruling from the Texas Supreme Court clearing the way for the execution date for Robert Roberson, a death row inmate convicted in the death of his two-year-old daughter. We've told you about this before, a conviction that even the lead detective in the case now thinks was wrong. It's a story we're continuing to follow here on The lead and we're going to talk to Roberson's attorney coming up.

Plus, CNN back in the swing state of Michigan, which Trump won, what do voters there think of the direction set so far by President-elect Trump and some of his Cabinet announcements? And let's start this hour there with the running list announced just today. The president-elect has tapped North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum to be interior secretary. He picked Steven Cheung, his former campaign communications director, to do the same at the White House. And he named Sergio Gore to serve as director of presidential personnel.

Let's go straight to CNN's Kristen Holmes, who's covering the Trump transition in West Palm Beach, Florida for us.

Kristen, what's the reasoning here for giving Cheung and Gore these White House staff rolls and what more can you tell us about them?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, he's clearly rewarding people who have been loyal to him, particularly over the last two years. Cheung has been by his side. One thing to note is that some of the most unhinged statements we saw come out of the Trump campaign came with the name Steven Cheung on them as spokesperson. He was always willing to put his name on anything that the former president wanted to say. And now he is being rewarded with a top communications job.

Sergio Gore is incredibly interesting, particularly given the post that he will be taking over, which is the head of the personnel department. Gore is a longtime ally of the former president, is close to the Trump family. He actually started a publishing company with Don Jr. They've published three of Donald Trump's books, as well as a number of other high profile Republicans. And he was responsible for a super PAC line with Trump this campaign cycle that raised roughly $80 million.

Now, the reason why Gore is so fascinating is the job itself. We know that the last year of Donald Trump's first time in office, that office was run by John McEntee. He was the one who was responsible for essentially starting the loyalty tests for all of the people entering the administration, as well as trying to purge the administration of anyone who is disloyal to Donald Trump. This time around, that job will go to Sergio Gore.

The important thing to keep in mind here is that despite the fact that this isn't one of these top tier, high profile jobs, it could be one of the most powerful jobs in Donald Trump's government, as one of his biggest goals has been to essentially get rid of a number of career officials and anyone who could be deemed as not in favor of Donald Trump and Gore will behind that.

TAPPER: Are there any names that we know of that Trump is considering for Treasury Secretary? It's usually State, Pentagon and Treasury are considered the big three. We have Marco Rubio for State, Pete Hegseth for Defense. What about Treasury?

HOLMES: I was told we're going to get Treasury Secretary today. It is -- time is ticking. But I think that might because of what I'm hearing is going on behind the scenes, which is it's really come down to two candidates. Now, I have to obviously give the caveat that we thought we had the short list of attorney general and then Donald Trump went on a plane ride and came out with Matt Gaetz. So, anything could happen in the meetings that are happening today.

But what I had heard is that the two big names to look at are Scott Bessent and Howard Lutnick. Scott Bessent is a hedge fund guy. He had been in a series of meetings with Donald Trump. It seemed as though everything was going in his favor when Howard Lutnick threw his name into the ring. He's the head of the transition and he's very close to Donald Trump.

So what exactly plays out today behind the scenes? We'll wait and see. We do know again that Scott Bessent had been, at some point, in front -- in the front there. But there's some drama going on here, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. We can do a wager at the break. I'm going to put my money on Lutnick just because he and Trump are pretty close.

HOLMES: I'm not going to win.

TAPPER: All right. Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

Let's go now to CNN's Kyung Lah, who has new reporting on Trump's pick for Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth.

[17:05:03]

Kyung, Hegseth, in addition to being a decorated veteran and a Fox and Friends weekend co host, we're hearing that he was involved in a police investigation in 2017. What more do we know about that?

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: We are hearing that from the city of Monterey, California. That's just south of where I am here in the city of San Francisco. And what we are hearing in a news release from the city is that police did investigate, quote, "an alleged sexual assault." It dated back to October 8, 2017, in the early morning hours taking place at the Hyatt Regency in Monterey, California. And that police began their investigation four days after this alleged assault when they were notified that something had taken place on that date.

I want you to take a look at this picture. This comes from a Facebook post from the California Federation of Republican Women. And you see there, it does show Pete Hegseth. He is a speaker at their conference on and around that time in October 2017. Now, the city statement does not specifically identify Hegseth as an alleged assailant.

It does say that he was involved. It also cites an unnamed victim and an injury, describing it as, quote, "contusions to right thigh, but not being very specific about who sustained that injury. The police will not be releasing a full report, according to the city. We also did check with the county courts and Hegseth name does not come up as a defendant in any criminal case starting from 2017 to today.

As far as Hegseth's camp, we are getting denials from them. We checked in with his attorney. His attorney says that, yes, an allegation was made, but there were no charges filed. We also reached out to Trump's spokesman who says, quote, "He has vigorously denied any and all accusations" and, quote, "we look forward to confirmation." Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kyung Lah, thanks so much.

Let's bring in the panel now. So Trump's attorney general pick, Matt Gaetz, he seems to, at this stage right now, have the potentially the most difficult path to getting confirmed publicly. Most Republican senators seem to be calling for the process to play out. But today the Wall Street Journal is reporting, quote, "One person familiar with the conversations among Republican senators said, quote, "significantly more than four" of them are opposed, which would be enough to tank Gaetz chances. People are pissed, the person said.

Other estimates range from more than a dozen Republican no votes to more than 30. It won't even be close, another person said."

SE, I don't know how much -- I'm sure -- I mean, the Wall Street Journal is great and I don't doubt they're reporting. I don't doubt somebody told them that. But I think they might have a lot more faith in the courage of Republicans off the record or on background than in front of the camera or on the phone with Donald Trump. What do you think Gaetz's chances are?

SE CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think they're slim. For one, I agree with you. But the House is really where there's no courage, zero courage. In the Senate, there is still some. You know, senators tend to be a bit more sober and contemplate their legacies at moments like these. And Matt Gaetz is not a well-liked person even inside Republican circles. And to me, this smells like the art of the deal. I have to imagine Gaetz approached Trump on that plane and said, listen, this bad stuff's about to come out. Let me leave. Let me leave Congress with some dignity.

If we do it this way and I avoid jail time, I'll go away. And, you know, I assume we'll see him pop up on Fox, maybe filling Pete's seat on Fox and Friends.

TAPPER: And John, you recently posted this on X, quote, "The difference between respected Marine General Jim Mattis," who was Trump's first Secretary of Defense, "and Fox News weekend Pete Hegseth as Secretary of Defense perfectly illustrates the likely difference between these two Trump administrations." Talk a little bit more about how you see the difference between the first Trump administration and what we're going to experience in the second.

JOHN AVLON, AUTHOR, "LINCOLN & THE FIGHT FOR PEACE": Well, I think you can just see it in these four nominations that are getting blowback not only from Republican senators but from Republican papers. I mean, you know, Jim Mattis is revered among Marines. I mean, he's a revered figure. And that had a centering effect that gave folks a lot of confidence. Now he became one of many generals and top administration cabinet secretaries to become fiercely critical of Donald Trump. Now he actually more muted than most.

But to go from, you know, Marine General Jim Mattis to Pete Hegseth, a Fox News weekend host, is a big delta, particularly with the specter of purges of generals potentially being set up. And you go down the list, Tulsi Gabbard as DNI versus, you know, the person previously. You know, you've got Bobby Kennedy Jr., somebody who the New York Post weighed in against saying he violates sort of the Hippocratic Oath, first do no harm. And then, you know, you just see it on and on. Then Matt Gaetz sort of is the cherry on that particular, you know, putrid Sunday where you seeing Republicans kick back for all the right reasons because they understand that someone like Matt Gaetz who's under serious ethical investigation is not fit to run the DOJ, particularly in an administration where that position has been primed to lead a revenge tour.

[17:10:22]

So, you're just seeing all those independents and late breaking undecideds who went for Donald Trump this time, I'm not sure they signed up for this. And so I think you're going to see a significant blowback.

TAPPER: I'm going to leave that Matt Gaetz cherry metaphor where it is. As Democrats plot their way out of the political wilderness, Alex Thompson of Axios is often a guest at this table, posted on his Twitter or X today, quote, "Rahm Emanuel is weighing a bid for DNC chair, three people with knowledge tell Axios. Axelrod, David Axelrod, has been an early booster this week."

Karen Finney, Rahm Emanuel, he's a political animal. He loves to win. KAREN FINNEY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes.

TAPPER: Not a favorite among progressives.

FINNEY: No.

TAPPER: What do you think? Do you think that's a good pick for Democrats? And if not him, then who?

FINNEY: I don't think he's a good pick. And I say that as someone who has known Rahm for about 30 years. Look, remember that the way this works is that the person -- these people will come forward, there will be a process. The DNC members will actually get to vote. And critical to that are the DNC party chairs, the state party chairs.

So the person who wins is going to be someone who has to win the confidence of the DNC membership and the state party chairs. And Rahm does not, like you said, he is not a favorite of progressives. And I don't see him being willing to go around and, you know, make peace with and talk with the state party chairs. And that's what it takes to win.

I think we need to actually have a process by which we figure out independent of Donald Trump, how do we win? What are we lacking? What did we miss in the electorate and the way that we reached out to voters? And then I want to see people come forward with a vision of how to implement that.

TAPPER: A Democrat calling for a process. I like it. I haven't seen it in a little while. Thanks to all of you.

The Senate Judiciary Committee will have a major role in deciding whether or not to confirm key Trump Cabinet picks. A Democratic member of that committee will be here coming up. Plus the former Trump defense attorneys now tap to serve in Trump's incoming administration, specifically in the Justice Department. Someone who knows them well, next.

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[17:16:23]

TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, President-elect Donald Trump's personal criminal defense attorneys are the ones he is tapping to serve in key roles at the U.S. Justice Department. Trump announced Todd Blanche as his pick for Deputy Attorney General and Emil Bove to serve as Principal Associate Deputy Attorney General. Both men played a central role in defending Trump in the losing New York hush money cover up case. Also, he tapped John Sauer, who won the presidential immunity case at the U.S. Supreme Court. He has been picked for U.S. Solicitor General.

Let's discuss these picks with one of Trump's former attorneys who was once part of Trump's defense team in the New York Hash Money cover-up case, Joe Tacopina. Joe, thanks so much for joining us. So, do you think all of these individuals from the defense team now asked to serve in the Justice Department in one way or another? Do you think they're all qualified to serve in the Justice Department? Or do you think this, as his critics would have it, is more about serving Donald Trump's interests?

JOE TACOPINA, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: No, I mean, listen, I mean, I'd like to break that down by individual --

TAPPER: Sure.

TACOPINA -- instead of painting with a broad brush because they're different individuals and certainly have different qualifications, Jake. If we're talking about someone like Todd Blanche in the position of Deputy Attorney General, I couldn't really think of someone more qualified. Todd's a terrific lawyer. He's a friend of mine but he's someone who has prosecutorial experience at the highest levels in the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Southern District. In my workings with him, he's clearly an intellect.

He's a smart individual. He's well-reasoned. He's not someone who flies off the handle, and he's just an all-around good person. And I think that's really one of the key ingredients you want when someone has such an important role.

TAPPER: Then there's Emil Bove as Principal Deputy Assistant, attorney general at the Justice Department. And then also, of course, Mr. Sauer as Solicitor General.

TACOPINA: Yes, I mean, those are all good lawyers. I mean, Emil I don't know as well as Todd, he worked also in the Justice Department in the Southern District with Todd. Todd brought him into his firm and he wound up trying that case when I stepped out with Todd in Manhattan, good lawyer. Again, my experience with him is limited. But you know, if Todd entrusts him to be his partner in his law firm, I'm sure he's qualified.

And again, he's someone who has experience, and that's what I think is important here, right? Someone with experience. So I think Emil would be great in that role. Again, it's not just one individual, it's a group, it's a team. And so he'd be working under Todd.

And again, they both come from probably the most prestigious federal prosecutorial office in this country, the Southern District of New York.

TAPPER: Has anybody from the Trump transition team reached out to you to see if you'd be interested in serving in the government in the next Trump administration in some facility?

TACOPINA: Oh, that's -- yes, that's not a possibility. I could not. I could not leave my day job. The president actually early on talk to me about, you know, joining him one day back in Washington and sent me a nice note to that effect, which I still have, but it's really nothing that I could have ever considered. We never furthered that discussion. I have a practice that has a lot of clients that depend on me, and I have fiduciary obligations to those clients. It's my days in government, and they were there, but that was a long time ago. Those are over. So no one's approached me. And I think they all know what the answer would that question would be.

[17:20:03]

So, no, I'm staying right where I am.

TAPPER: What do you make of the pick of Congressman Matt Gaetz to be U.S. Attorney General? Obviously, Mr. Gaetz has been mired for years in a Justice Department investigation, a House ethics investigation. Do you see him as the most qualified and appropriate person to lead the Justice Department?

TACOPINA: Look, again, that's a very personal decision that the President-elect will be making and has made. I'm not going to criticize that decision because I've only dealt with Matt in a matter where he was tremendously helpful to me, and that had nothing to do with President Trump, by the way. It was a matter of an innocent individual who was ultimately freed from custody in the United States and brought over to Italy. The Italian Prime Minister was involved, and I was involved in that, and Matt Gaetz was very helpful. So, my experience with him has been more than positive.

Look, he's bombastic. He's someone who speaks his mind. But I think that's consistent with the personality of the President-elect, right? So I don't know if that's -- look, he may not be everyone's cup of tea. He certainly, you know, is colorful, and he is someone who -- but, you know, when you say investigations, I -- that doesn't mean anything to me, Jake. And the reason it doesn't mean anything to me is because he's not been charged with anything.

And, you know, many people are under investigations. And if they're not charged, I don't -- to me, I don't want to hear about it. You know, there's no proof that he has done anything wrong, and there's no, absolutely no evidence that's been made public anyway that I know of that he's done anything wrong. So people could be under investigations. Allegations can be thrown around.

Especially in this day and age, allegations seem to be tossed around like lollipops. I think you have to be measured before you cast judgment on someone. And, you know, Matt Gaetz is someone who the president is relying on. But don't forget, it's not just Matt Gaetz, it's going to be Todd Blanche and Emil, and he's going to have some very seasoned prosecutors around him. So, I think it'll be just fine if he's confirmed.

TAPPER: Joe Tacopina, thanks so much for your time today. We appreciate it, sir.

TACOPINA: OK, Jake. Thank you.

TAPPER: What are Democrats saying about the controversial names picked for Trump's administration? A Democratic senator on the Senate Judiciary Committee is taking this all in. She'll be questioning cabinet selections and confirmation hearings and she's going to join us next.

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[17:26:41]

TAPPER: And we're back with more in our politics lead. In reaction to President-elect Trump's picks for his incoming administration, let's bring in Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota, who is on the Senate Judiciary Committee, which will take up confirmation hearings for key members of Trump's incoming administration. That is, if they are actually formally nominated and confirmed, not appointed during a recess, which we shall see.

Senator, good to see you. So, let's start with --

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): Hey, Jake.

TAPPER: -- the nominee to be attorney general, former Congressman Matt Gaetz. First, your initial thoughts on Gaetz as the nation's highest law enforcement officer.

KLOBUCHAR: This is an absurd choice given that he has been outwardly under investigation by the House Ethics Committee, and then he resigns right before the report is to be released on charges of everything and allegations of sex trafficking and illicit drug use. And it appears as though a number of House members on both sides of the aisle has information about this. So that is why I am not surprised that senators like Senator Cramer from North Dakota, who is a conservative, said that his nomination is a long shot. You have Senator Cornyn, a well-respected member of the Judiciary Committee, saying that he must see this report, that he wants to see this report. And so a group of us asked for this report and unfortunately it appears as though the House speaker doesn't want to release this report.

And I just think this is absurd because we will have to recreate this report now, Jake. And I don't know why the speaker or the Republicans would want us to use taxpayer dollars. You have to recreate a report and use the FBI to investigate all of these various allegations of a position so important overseeing 115,000 law enforcement, FBI agents, prosecutors. There couldn't be a more important position in the U.S. government when it comes to public safety.

TAPPER: So let me just do a little devil's advocating here.

KLOBUCHAR: OK, Jake.

TAPPER: One, allegations and investigations are not convictions. The Justice Department did look --

KLOBUCHAR: Correct.

TAPPER: -- into this case and they did not bring charges against former Congressman Gaetz. And two, Speaker Johnson might say he's no longer a congressman, he resigned, and it is not the tradition of the House Ethics Committee to release reports on people who are no longer members of Congress.

KLOBUCHAR: Well, first of all, this has happened a number of times with a Republican senator when he left for the good of the public, the report was released. And a Democrat in the House of Representatives once left and the report was released after. So that's not true. These reports have been released.

Secondly, this is our job in the U.S. Senate and how the Founders of our country set this up was a system of checks and balances. That's why we have to have hearings. That's why we have to get to the bottom of this. And these are clearly allegations. While they may not have at the time risen to the level of criminal, these are allegations we need to know when this person would be overseeing an agency that does things like investigate fentanyl crimes, take on major sex trafficking rings.

[17:30:05]

I think we need to know this. And I just keep looking at like conservative commentators like Ben Domenech, who said that he considers Matt Gaetz vile. OK, I don't know Matt Gaetz, but I have heard more negative things about him from the Republican side than I don't think I've heard ever before for a nominee.

TAPPER: Trump --

KLOBUCHAR: So clearly, they would -- they have to -- it's going to be on them to make this decision.

TAPPER: So Trump is also reportedly considering Kash Patel to be, FBI Director Patel worked in the Defense Department during Trump's first term. He's promised in -- in the past to essentially go after Trump's enemies and including people in -- in the media. He has not been formally nominated, but it is definitely true that Trump is considering making him FBI director. Do you have a take on him?

KLOBUCHAR: I don't know him. But I'm concerned when I read that Bill Barr, at the time when he was being considered for another position in justice, that Trump's own former attorney general said, over his dead body would he put this person in.

What I would like to see happen, I would like to see Christopher Wray serve out his tenures. Let's not forget Christopher Wray was a Donald Trump appointee. And we have FBI directors terms for 10 years, so they overlap presidents. In this case, a Republican president, then a Democratic president, now we're back with a Republican president.

You know, that is my hope. Maybe that won't happen, but I think that would best for an agency that I believe that Christopher Wray has greatly enhanced morale in the FBI. They're out there doing their jobs. They are handling cases of a -- a -- a major, major white collar cases all the time. They have taken down gangs. They have taken down drug rings.

And I am proud of a lot of the work that Christopher Wray has done even though he was a President Trump appointee. I did support him, as did I think, 97 senators. So, you should look back at that bipartisan vote that he got when he was chosen when Jeff Sessions was Attorney General. And I'll think -- I think you'll see the kind of support that he's had in the past.

TAPPER: It seems like a simpler, quainter time. Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar, always good to see you. Thank you so much.

KLOBUCHAR: It was great to be on, Jake. Thank you.

TAPPER: It's been 10 days since Election Day. That's right, just 10 days. And still one Senate race has yet to be called. It's under a recount, an official act triggered because of the closeness of the race. The actions by Democrats in one county has Republicans crying foul. Stay with us.

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[17:36:35]

TAPPER: More in our Politics Lead. Donald Trump won in the state of Michigan 10 days ago, including Dearborn, which has one of the largest populations of Arab-Americans in the entire United States. Many there, outraged by the Biden administration's alliance with Israel in Israel's war on Hamas in Gaza after the October 7th attack, either voted for Trump or went third party or did not vote at all.

Trump has already named former governor and pastor, Mike Huckabee, ambassador to Israel. Huckabee's on the record saying the U.S. might support the idea of Israel annexing the entire West Bank. It's a stance that no Democratic named U.S. Ambassador to Israel has ever held. So how do Arab American Dearborn residents who voted for Trump now feel about what they did and their pick? CNN's Danny Freeman went there to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Dearborn, Michigan, the campaigns and the candidates have gone, but the politics linger.

ALBERT ABBAS, VOTED FOR TRUMP: I think that the community is going to continue to be engaged and polarized.

FREEMAN (voice-over): In the final days of the race, Lebanese-American Albert Abbas welcomed former President Trump to his family's restaurant in Dearborn.

ABBAS: I, along with many others, truly appreciate that you made it a priority to visit Dearborn.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Abbas agreed to host Trump only after he pledged to bring peace to Lebanon in the Middle East.

ABBAS: We're very Optimistic and hopeful and -- and quite frankly, I'm excited about a -- a second term of a Trump presidency.

FREEMAN: What was your reaction to some of these Cabinet announcements? You see someone like Mike Huckabee as Ambassador to Israel, someone like Elise Stefanik looking to go to the U.N. Marco Rubio, all pretty hardline when it comes to the Middle East?

ABBAS: I'm not going to judge his -- his appointees right now. We'll hold his feet to the fire once he's president.

FREEMAN (voice-over) President-elect Trump won the state of Michigan by about 80,000 votes. In the majority Arab American city of Dearborn, Trump won with 42 percent of the vote. While Vice President Harris only received 36 percent. Jill Stein, the Green Party protest choice of many antiwar voters, got 18 percent of the vote here.

FREEMAN: What was the perception that you thought Donald Trump would be doing?

DALAL BAYDOUN, VOTED FOR THE GREEN PARTY: So as Donald Trump told us he will stop the war, but now he's putting people in office that are with the war practically.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Dalal Baydoun voted for Jill Stein. She couldn't bring herself to vote for Vice President Harris because of the Biden administration's support for Israel. But, she feels Trump has already squandered his goodwill in the Arab-American community.

FREEMAN: How do you feel about voting Green Party now?

BAYDOUN: I feel good that I don't have blood on my hands because like I said, they're all with genocide. So having to be not a part of all that makes me feel good.

FREEMAN: Do you regret not voting for Harris?

BAYDOUN: No, because she's even worse.

FREEMAN: How are you feeling now that President-elect Trump won?

LEXIS ZEIDAN, CO-FOUNDER, UNCOMMITTED NATIONAL MOVEMENT: Yes, I'd say definitely a range of emotions. Disappointed is one, angry is another.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Lexis Zeidan is one of the leaders of the Uncommitted Movement and left the top of the ticket blank. She hears the criticism that voters like her helped elect Trump, but rejects it, saying they wanted Harris to work with them.

ZEIDAN: You could have added every single vote in Dearborn and Kamala still would have lost. You could have added every single Jill Stein vote across the country. Kamala still would have lost. And so this wasn't a referendum on Gaza policy. This -- this election was not lost because of Gaza or because of uncommitted voters. What it showed you is that she not only was sidelining uncommitted and Arab and Muslim voters, but she was sidelining other communities of color as well.

[17:40:16]

FREEMAN: Do you have any regrets? ZEIDAN: I have no regrets. Because what I did and, you know, what I believe Uncommitted did in the last, you know, 10 months is we did everything we could to offer the Democratic leadership something to save this democracy and to save Palestinian lives.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN: Now Jake, folks that we spoke with for this piece all acknowledged that their Arab-American communities are only growing and they're hoping that those communities are only more influential in upcoming elections. They all told me that they expect in years to come that neither party can afford to ignore them or break their promises to them, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Danny Freeman in Dearborn, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

In Pennsylvania, the Senate race between Democratic incumbent Bob Casey and Republican challenger Dave McCormick has gone to an automatic recount because of how close it is. CNN has yet to call this race, though other media organizations have. McCormick is right now ahead by about 21,000 votes. Casey is not conceding.

But now some Democratic officials in one particular county are taking action that has Republicans and other observers upset. CNN's Marshall Cohen is with me. Marshall, tell me what's going on here.

MARSHALL COHEN, CNN REPORTER: Jake, we're talking about Bucks County, one of those suburban counties outside of Philadelphia where Casey and McCormick basically split the vote. They're now dealing with those provisional ballots where people cast ballots on Election Day, not sure if they're eligible. Maybe they're in the wrong precinct.

And when there's a recount like there is now, those ballots matter. So, this was a pretty controversial situation in Bucks County. We're only talking about, about 100 ballots. This is not going to tip the race. But in a recount, every vote matters.

The Democratic election board in Bucks County, in defiance of a state Supreme Court ruling, decided yesterday to count these ballots that may not have signatures on every single spot where you need them. When you vote provisional in PA, you need to sign the ballot twice.

They said on this board, if it only has one signature, they'll allow it. That is in defiance of what the state Supreme Court said before the election. You're really not supposed to defy the state Supreme Court. And some of the comments from one of the Democratic commissioners have gone absolutely viral on social media for the pretty strong stand that she took. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE ELLIS-MARSEGLIA (D), BUCKS COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS: Not going to second that. Mostly because I think we all know that precedent by a court doesn't matter anymore in this country. And people violate laws anytime they want. So, for me, if I violate this law, it's because I want a court to pay attention to it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COHEN: And this will all end up in court, Jake. There are plenty of lawsuits across the country that across the state that McCormick is still pursuing.

TAPPER: So that woman's basically saying, well, Donald Trump is lawless. Nothing matters anymore. So I'm going to do what I want to do.

COHEN: Yes.

TAPPER: That's my interpretation.

COHEN: Sounded like it.

TAPPER: Yes. That's not allowed. That's not going to stand.

COHEN: Yes. It's not.

TAPPER: That's -- that's -- that's pretty sleazy. Marshall Cohen, thanks so much.

[17:43:17]

There was a major ruling today from the Texas Supreme Court that sets in motion the execution of Robert Roberson, the Texas man we've been telling you about now for months. He's -- he was convicted in the death of his two-year-old daughter, Nikki. It's a case we've been closely watching here in The Lead. And coming up next, his attorney is going to be here to push to stop that execution. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: A major update for you in our Law and Justice Lead, today in a controversial death row case that we've been watching very closely here on The Lead today. The Texas Supreme Court denied a state House committee's attempt to delay the execution of Robert Roberson. That clears the way for a new execution date for Roberson. Roberson as you may recall, he was convicted of murder in the 2002 death of his two- year-old daughter Nikki.

It's a case that turned on what is called shaken baby syndrome. Many people think that his murder convictions should be reconsidered, and that includes Brian Wharton, who was the lead detective who helped put Roberson in prison to begin with.

Today, Roberson's legal team says Whar -- Wharton believes Roberson was, quote, hastily and wrongly judged as guilty when he was an autistic father who was incapable of explaining his daughter's com -- complex medical condition. That it took highly trained medical specialists years to figure out, unquote.

Let's bring in Roberson's attorney, Gretchen Sween. Ms. Sween, what -- what was your reaction to the Texas Supreme Court's ruling? Have you been able to talk with Robert about it?

GRETCHEN SWEEN, ATTORNEY FOR ROBERT ROBERSON: I have not been able to talk to Robert yet, though I have sent word to him to make sure heard about it, although I'm -- imagine the news coverage reached death row in Texas, as it often does, faster than attorneys are able to talk to their clients. I'm -- I'm very sad about the opinion because it releases the temporary stay that was obtained through a lawful subpoena of Robert to obtain his testimony.

And I think the opinion today that's vindicated was a lawful subpoena and it was a legitimate exercise of legislative authority to try to hear from Robert himself. The stay, however, is lifted because they've decided that if a subpoena impinges upon a looming execution date, that is an overreach. But for -- and -- and -- now we're back in the position where the -- the local DA could go seek a new execution date essentially in any moment.

TAPPER: So Wharton, the lead detective, told me here on The Lead last month, quote, everything that we relied on for a conviction has been debunked as junk science. Are there other legal steps that you can take going forward?

SWEEN: One of the problems is, and I would say one of the errors in the Supreme Court of Texas decision today is the suggestion that courts have considered the new evidence, including declarations from Brian Wharton himself. And ordinarily, you would think all this new evidence would lead to courts slowing everything down and granting a new trial. But what happened in this case is the court kept declaring procedural bars to considering the new evidence.

[17:50:19]

So it is just simply inaccurate to suggest any court has looked at this evidence and concluded there's no merit actual innocence case. Nobody's looked at it. And the only people with any authority to grant a new trial are the courts. And if they don't look at the new evidence and conclude that -- that justifies a new trial, we're in a terrible predicament. But we're certainly not giving up. What I have to do a better job of is convincing them this new evidence really is new and wasn't available in previous attempts to get relief.

TAPPER: Yes. What is this overwhelming new evidence of innocence that you're referring to?

SWEEN: Partly what I'm referring to is a collection of comprehensive reports from medical experts in an array of disciplines carefully explaining the objective evidence that shows that Nikki died from an undiagnosed pneumonia. Both a viral pneumonia that was colonizing her lung tissue and a secondary bacterial pneumonia -- pneumonia that was causing the lung cells to die.

And this is not about someone's esoteric opinion. It's an expert in lung pathology looking at the lung tissue and seeing the disease and also looking at her medical records and seeing all the evidence that she had this respiratory illness that was missed. And instead of identifying the pneumonia, she was given severe medications that are, you know, for a child of two, codeine and Phenergan that suppress respiration. So you have a kid who is struggling to breathe, you give them medications that make it harder for them to breathe. It is not then difficult to understand why Nikki might have ceased breathing in the night and then been discovered by her father unconscious and turning blue.

Even more, Nikki's own medical records show she had a history of unexplained breathing apnea when she would have spells where she would cease breathing, collapse and turn blue and have to be revived. But the jury didn't hear any of that.

TAPPER: Right.

SWEEN: And so, this isn't just about lawyer's hunches. These are highly qualified medical experts looking at the objective evidence and explaining how she did die and how she did not die. Because that evidence also includes categorical proof that there was no inflicted head injury.

TAPPER: Yes.

SWEEN: There was a minor bump on the back of her head, proven by a CAT scan that the jury also never saw.

TAPPER: Yet more evidence that we have in this country, a legal system, not a justice system. Gretchen Sween, thank you so much we'll check in with you soon.

[17:53:06]

Coming up next, a new documentary from Dr. Sanjay Gupta about Ozempic and what you may not realize about the popular weight drug used for weight loss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Join me for a special fundraiser happening right now. It's the 8th Annual Homes for Our Troops Auction. You bid on items and money raised will help build specially adapted mortgage free homes for severely wounded veterans.

Several celebrities -- celebrities are offering to bid one on one zoom calls. These fabulous people include Julia Louis-Dreyfus and Adam Scott and Nick Offerman from "Parks and Rec," as well as creator Mike Schur, Jon Stewart, David Axelrod, Kevin O'Leary, also known as Mr. Wonderful from "Shark Tank," Connie Britton, Zach Levi, Ahmad Rashad.

I'm just naming a few here. I mean, look at that group. Elizabeth Banks, Pamela Brown. There's also autographed memorabilia, show tickets, much more. Check out the long list, more than 100 items featured. It's at eBay.com/HFOT, eBay.com/HFOT, Homes for Our Troops. The auction is open until next Thursday.

In our Health Lead today, within the past few years, we've all become aware of the so-called miracle drugs for those struggling with obesity. This Sunday night on CNN, our chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta will present his year-long investigation into these revolutionary medications. Here's a little preview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Over the years, the evidence has become increasingly clear on this. For so many people, obesity is not a choice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We now know of over a thousand genes that play a role in our body weight. It's sort of like a thermostat. OK, where for some people, a thermostat is set at whatever temperature it is in a house, whereas for other people, that thermostat is set slightly higher, slightly lower. And so if it's set higher and you end up having to eat more, you're going to be larger than someone else.

GUPTA: It's why obesity is now considered a disease not of the intestines or your stomach, but of the brain. It's a huge shift in the way that we think with huge implications for treatment. But these are still early days. And remember, at one time, even depression and addiction were seen as failures of willpower instead of a brain disease. Changing the perception of obesity, that's going to take time.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's definitely true that there are people out there who said time and again obesity is not really a disease. All you need to do is eat better and -- and exercise more and -- and you'll be OK.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Dr. Sanjay Gupta reports. Is Ozempic right for you? That's Sunday night at 8:00 Eastern only here on CNN.

[18:00:02]

Sunday morning. Join me on State of the Union. I'm going to interview House Speaker Mike Johnson, Democratic Senator-elect Ruben Gallego of Arizona, Democratic Senator John Fetterman of Pennsylvania. That's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern and again at noon only here on CNN.

The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer right next door in a place I like to call The Situation Room. I will see you Sunday morning. Go and bid on the Homes for Our Troops items on eBay. Thanks. I'll see you then.