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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Transition Team Signs DOJ Memo Allowing FBI Background Check; DOJ: FBI Can Now Start Background Checks On Trump Cabinet Picks; Some In GOP Raise Concerns About Hegseth Allegations; Bloomberg: RFK Jr. Would Be "Beyond Dangerous" As Health Secretary; White House Digs In As Criticism Of Hunter Biden Pardon Mounts; Jury Deliberating In NYC Subway Chokehold Death Trial; Jury Deliberating In NYC Subway Chokehold Death Trial; Rep. Sean Casten (D-IL), Is Interviewed About Dem Rep Moves To Force Release Of Gaetz Ethics Report; Delta Says Paris Stowaway Will Be Flown Back To U.S. Tomorrow. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 03, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: The Texans general manager has weighed in with some colorful language. Plus, the White House blindsided as chaos unfolds in South Korea. The country's president declaring martial law, troops marching on the parliament building. Protesters filling the streets. We're live on the ground in Seoul, South Korea, with the latest.

Leading this hour, however, a number of top Trump picks on Capitol Hill today as they prepare for their upcoming confirmation fights, and while many Senate Republicans seem completely on board with the president-elect's elections, others are raising potential concerns today. Let's bring in CNN's Kaitlan Collins, who's covering the Trump transition for us in West Palm Beach, Florida.

Kaitlan, we're just learning that the Trump team has signed a memorandum of understanding with the U.S. Justice Department, which means that Trump's nominees, including those on the Hill today, will start undergoing background checks. Tell us more.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR, "THE SOURCE": Yes, Jake, this is a notable development given the delay here. Typically, this is something that an incoming president does pretty quickly after they win an election. They do sign this agreement and others with the current administration so this process can start. And obviously, the Justice Department memorandum of understanding has been one of the biggest ones because it does allow the FBI to start conducting those background checks on the senior most aides that Trump is trying to put in his Cabinet or in his top positions inside the White House. It means that they can start looking at classified information as well as this begins to get underway.

And the reason, Jake, that this is so notable that it's happening now is because we are hearing from a lot more vocal Republican senators saying that they do want to see the FBI conduct background checks, that the ones that the Trump team had talked about having private investigators or private companies carry out just was not going to carry the same weight with these Republican senators, some of whom may be on the fence about some of these nominees when it comes to how they're vetting and looking at them. Because obviously the FBI background check process is done to make sure that these people have a full understanding of what is in their background and whether or not they should be trusted with the nation's most classified secrets.

And so looking at that from that perspective, Jake, this is announcement that came today from the Trump team with a statement from the incoming chief of staff, Susie Wiles, about getting this process going because there had been some concerns internally. One, the Republican senators were going to ultimately demand this, certainly those that are on the fence, and two, that it would delay the confirmation process because typically for the attorney general, for the secretary of state, for those top jobs, those are done pretty quickly after the incoming president is inaugurated because they need those people in place that those obviously those key and critical agencies, Jake.

And so a few things, though, to note here. One, it's not totally clear that they are going to submit all of Trump's picks to get background checks. That is something that we're still trying to determine from our sources of what this process is going to look like and if every cabinet pick is actually going to have to submit to an FBI background check for these senators who are going to be vetting them and what that looks like.

And Jake, I'll also remind you, this was a big issue in Trump's first term when it came to security clearances. It led to the ouster of his staff secretary, Rob Porter, after they found troubling information in his background in regards to women. But also when there was -- Trump was given advice by top officials in his administration not to grant Jared Kushner a security clearance, he overrode those concerns and granted him one anyway, even though he had said at the time that he wasn't going to be involved in that process.

So how this all shakes out still matters, Jake. But this is notable because it does jumpstart that process as we were hearing from key Republican senators saying that they did want to see background checks.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Kaitlan, of course, is working on new reporting on the Trump transition. And you can look for more of that on her show, "The Source," which airs tonight and every weeknight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern here on CNN.

Let's go to CNN's Manu Raju live for us on Capitol Hill.

And Manu, what are you hearing from Republicans, especially when it comes to Trump's pick for Defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, who's on the Hill pressing the flesh and meeting with Republican senators today?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, meeting that's about to start in a matter of minutes with Senator Eric Schmidt of Missouri. This coming after a number of Republicans are simply not saying how they would come down, whether they would support this nomination, but acknowledging that this could be a difficult road because Democrats are likely to be in unison opposing this nominee. And more than three Republican senators if they were to vote against him, that would mean that he could not get the votes to become confirmed. There are much more than three Republican senators who have concerns of questions about these allegations of misconduct that have come out in various reports. And what key senator earlier today, Senator Lindsey Graham, acknowledged a tough road ahead and for Hegseth to get the votes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Some of these articles are very disturbing. He obviously has a chance to defend himself here. But you know, some of this stuff is it's going to be difficult. You know, time will tell. I like Pete. I've known him for a very, very long time.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And other senators, including Senator Joni Ernst of Iowa, someone who has herself has been a survivor of sexual assault and has called for reforms at the Pentagon and how it handles those crimes, has been notably undecided about this nomination. In fact, she was asked earlier today by our colleague Ted Barrett about her concerns, and she indicated she was going to have a thorough and frank conversation with Hegseth later this week.

[17:05:16]

Now, it's still possible, Jake, that these Republican senators could ultimately fall in line, but there's little margin for error. One key senator, Senator Susan Collins of Maine, I asked her if she has concerns about all these reports and the allegations of misconduct involving Hegseth, she said she wants to see that full FBI background check, review all those allegations. She said those all need to be investigated by the FBI before she makes a determination here. So a long road ahead for Hegseth to get this job. There's a lot of Republican senators right now undecided, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju, thanks so much. Let's jump right in with our panel.

And, Mike, you heard Senator Lindsey Graham there saying Hegseth's confirmation will be difficult now that we know the FBI background checks are in process, although who knows if Hegseth is going to get one or not. Do you think Republicans are nervous about what might come forward from that process?

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: No, I actually -- and let's just assume that Hegseth is going to be one of the individuals that if not all of the nominees that will have background checks --

TAPPER: Well, it sounds like some Republicans are demanding and insisting on it. DUBKE: I think it's a game changer, mainly because at some point, with all of the allegations that are against Hegseth, they were going to have to go do a background check anyway.

TAPPER: Yes.

DUBKE: I just don't know politically how they would have avoided it. And if they had waited much longer, it would have delayed the confirmation hearing because they would have demanded. The Democrats will absolutely demand this, and I'm sure several Republicans will demand, if you're going to do it for one, you're going to do it for all. So if they had delayed this, we would not have had votes as soon as possible on a lot of these nominees, and that would have delayed the whole process.

So, I think what Kaitlan was reporting on today is going to be very helpful to getting these people across the finish line. Now, the individual allegations, that's something else to talk about.

TAPPER: So, Nayyera, Kristen Soltis Anderson, who's on the show frequently, her polling firm posted that Americans support most of the people Trump has nominated to key roles. You can see Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State nominee, receives the most net support, plus 9, followed by Vivek Ramaswamy at plus 5 for Doge (ph), I guess. Pete Hegseth has the lowest support at minus two. That's only after Matt Gaetz withdrew his nomination. Do you think that matters to this process?

NAYYERA HAQ, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF CABINET AFFAIRS, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: Oh, definitely. Because so much of how Trump has been picking his cabinet nominees is based on who presents well on T.V., who can help push the value culture war narrative that helped propel the campaign. But governing is fundamentally different. And the U.S. Military, the Pentagon is the largest employer in the country, the public has direct interaction with that agency, probably more so than any other of that some of these places can be very obscure. The challenge of coming out of the gate for Hegseth saying he doesn't believe women should serve is that they're 20 percent of the military already.

Nearly 20 percent. Recruitment is down in general. How do you suddenly go into this environment as effectively the CEO and then tell your people you believe in them, you want them to do better, but also discredit many of the people who are already serving, make it harder to recruit and strengthen your workforce while on top of that, facing all these other allegations.

TAPPER: You want to weigh in on Hagseth?

BILL KRISTOL, DIRECTOR, DEFENDING DEMOCRACY TOGETHER: I mean, I think he's ludicrously unqualified for the job. You know, he's never had a senior position in national security. He's ever run an organization of more than a dozen people. He didn't do very well in a couple of small organizations he did run. I don't even care.

I care about the personal stuff, but it's such an insult, honestly, to the entire national security community. Nominate him for a job that Bob Gates and Leon Panetta and so many optics chains. Whatever you think of each of these individuals, Bill Cohen, serious people have had. Of all -- some cabinet jobs, you give them to some political person, it's not a big deal. But defense, it's kind of an important job.

TAPPER: Speaking of serious people, former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg warned against confirming Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. as Health Secretary. Here's what he said at a health conference in D.C. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE BLOOMBERG, (R) FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Putting RFK Jr. in charge of that would beyond dangerous. It would be medical malpractice on a mass scale.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Why would President-elect Trump expend so much political capital on this guy who is really of the left, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.?

DUBKE: Well, I may take initial exception with the political capital. I don't know that he's spending a lot of political capital on these nominees. When some political capital needed to be spent on Gaetz, Gaetz withdrew. I think he -- you know, this election was a disruption election from the perspective of President-elect Trump. He is going to push as many nominees that may seem unqualified, may seem to the left as possible to see how far he can move the needle on all of this. And in his mind, the American people voted to change government as usual, and that's what these nominees represent.

[17:10:07]

TAPPER: Yes.

HAQ: And the challenge also with RFK is that he has not necessarily been of the left, right? The -- so many of the Democratic Party, so many of his family members discredited his work, but he is representative of a realignment of what politics looks like right now. And Trump has been able to capitalize on that.

TAPPER: Well, I just meant like, he ran for president as a Democrat before he ran for president as an Independent, before he endorsed Donald Trump.

KRISTOL: Such old fashioned thinking, Jake. You're really, you're living --

HAQ: (Inaudible), Jake.

KRISTOL: This is Donald Trump's America. Could you get with the program here?

DUBKE: We're bringing new thinking to the table.

TAPPER: I appreciate it. I want to turn to the fallout from the Biden decision to grant a sweeping pardon for his son Hunter. Just moments ago, CNN learned that Donald Trump's legal team is now using Biden's language in the pardon to try to get Trump's felony conviction in the New York hush money case thrown out. Not to mention, of course, the questions it raises about trust in the president. In June, you'll remember, Biden said, quote, "I said I'd abide by the jury decision and I will do that and I will not pardon him."

I want you to take a listen to how White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre is defending this -- let's call it a reversal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: First of all, one of the things that the President always believes is to be truthful to the American people. That is something that he always truly believes. And because he believes in the justice system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: OK, so the truthful thing, let's table that for one second. But believing in the justice system, in the President's statement pardoning his son, he says, quote, "Here's the truth, I believe in the justice system. But as I have wrestled with this, I also believe raw politics has infected this process and it led to a miscarriage of justice. As they say, when you have a sentence and the word but is in there, ignore everything before the word but. He obviously does not believe in the justice system.

If he thinks that this case was polluted, which I think a lot of people at the Justice Department would say it wasn't and he wouldn't pardon.

HAQ: Yes. The President's discretion to pardon is pretty broad. It's not like there's a -- I mean, there are many cases lined up for which the President could also grant pardons, whether they'll be, you know, victims of people who just swept up in outdated drug laws or miscarriages of justice like all of those are up for presidential discretion. But --

TAPPER: I think he's pardoned fewer people than any president in modern history.

HAQ: Yes. Yes. Around 20. And that's what I'm hoping to see from Biden. All right, I get it. This is a raw political moment and all the rules have changed and Trump is pardoning family members and then giving them ambassadors to France. And he wants to save his only son. I get that part --

KRISTOL: This is much worse.

HAQ: -- but tis --

KRISTOL: Trump pardoned Kushner, which is very bad. Kushner serve two years in jail.

HAQ: This is what I am saying, if you're going to use -- KRISTOL: Fifteen years before --

TAPPER: Yes.

KRISTOL: -- this is one of these pardons to clean the record. It makes people feel better. It doesn't change.

TAPPER: Putting the record so he can be an ambassador of France.

KRISTOL: This is in the middle of a criminal case. There's a jury that sat and found him guilty. It was on appeal. He has very good lawyers. If he believes in the justice system, they can go up the chain.

HAQ: Here's the thing --

KRISTOL: The judge might not send some --

HAQ: -- I'm not going to clutch pearls -- I'm not going to clutch pearls about Biden at the end of his term trying to do this for a family member. I don't like it. We all (ph) clutch pearls about that.

TAPPER: Yes.

HAQ: When the president united -- future president of United States isn't even going to get a sentencing because after 34 convictions, like the way that the law has operated --

KRISTOL: But some of us said to some Republicans that when there were 34 convictions by a jury in New York City, you should respect the judicial system. Joe Biden should have respected the system. It was very bad that he did this, in my opinion.

TAPPER: All right, thanks to one and all. Appreciate it.

New comments from the White House Just moments ago, after hours of chaos engulfed close U.S. ally South Korea, what comes next after the country's president agrees to lift martial law? Plus, the new push today to try to force the release of the ethics report into Matt Gaetz. Remember him? He's the former congressman who faced allegations of sexual misconduct. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:47]

TAPPER: And we're back with our world lead, confusion, chaos engulfing the South Korean capital of Seoul today after the president there declared martial law, claiming he was protecting the country from North Korean communist forces. South Korean troops then entered the parliament building and lawmakers rushed to an emergency session to block this move of a declaration of martial law.

The Biden administration says they did not get any sort of heads up. They're seriously concerned by today's event. CNN's Mike Valerio is in Seoul now with a closer look at how these stunning developments all played out. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIKE VALERIO, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Soldiers clashing with citizens in a shocking scene outside of South Korea's parliament as crowds chant, dismiss the martial law, after the country's president declared nationwide military rule, the first time since 1980 in an unusual late night T.V. address.

PRESIDENT YOON SUK YEOL, SOUTH KOREA (through translator): I declare emergency martial law to defend the Republic of Korea from the danger of North Korean communist forces.

VALERIO (voice-over): All this in response to a number of actions by the opposition, including rejecting a budget bill and attempts to impeach officials from Yoon's administration. Yoon Suk Yeol said the moves were intended to, quote, "incite rebellion, and accused opposition lawmakers of trying to destabilize the country."

CHO KUK, FORMER JUSTICE MINISTER/LEADER OF THE "REBUILDING KOREA" PARTY (through translator): This decision is a crime. Is this someone who we will let run this country? No. Will we let this slide? No.

PARK GEON-WOO, SOUTH KOREA CITIZEN (through translator): It doesn't make sense. As far as I know, this is the first martial law declared since the Gwangju democratization movement. It is really happening in the 21st century.

VALERIO (voice-over): Broken windows and rifle wielding soldiers standing at the national assembly building as tensions between the presidency and opposition lawmakers spills into mass protests.

VALERIO: We're here in the crowd and there are two military vehicles that are trying to get out of here. We're just a few blocks away from the National Assembly. There were some soldiers that were saying their military vehicles are trying to leave the area and get back to their base. Protesters, of course, voicing their huge outrage and dismay at this moment.

[17:20:04]

VALERIO (voice-over): The extraordinary measure, the president insists was to do away with what he claims are groups sympathetic towards North Korea. Hours later, Yoon forced into reversing his decision after lawmakers voted to overturn his order, leaving a rattled South Korean public reeling from the political chaos.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALERIO (on camera): So, Jake, in the past 30 seconds, we have protesters to my left and right who have been forcibly removed by police here in Seoul. They were standing and sitting right in front of the national assembly to make their point that democracy needs to persevere beyond this moment. But now we see protesters and police in a moment of chaos. They say that they're going to stay here for hours to come and they want to hear from South Korea's president. They say he needs to step down and they want to hear from him, Jake, as to why he took South Korea down this road.

Jake.

TAPPER: Certainly needs an explanation, that's for sure. Mike Valerio in Seoul, South Korea, thanks.

The jury now has the case in the New York subway chokehold death trial. CNN had a team inside the courtroom today, and that reporter is going to join us live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:31]

TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, we are on verdict watch in the Daniel Penny trial. Just moments ago, the jury went home for the night. They will resume deliberations again tomorrow morning. The jury will decide the fate of the Marine veteran accused of killing Jordan Neely with a chokehold on a New York City subway. CNN's Gloria Pazmino joins us now live outside of court in New York.

And Gloria, the jury's going home tonight. But what we're hearing, it came back earlier to ask the judge for a clarification. Tell us about that.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: They did, Jake, and it was actually pretty quickly after they had started deliberation. In fact, that note came within the first two hours of them deliberating. And they specifically asked the judge to once again read them the instructions as it relates to the law and the charges. Now that's interesting, Jake, and I'll tell you why. The judge in this case was very clear in his instructions. In order for the jury to find the defendant guilty, they have to find that Daniel Penny was justified in his actions.

And there are two charges here. The first count is manslaughter in the second degree. The second count is criminally negligent homicide. They cannot convict him on both charges. Now, if the jury finds that the evidence showed beyond the reasonable doubt that Daniel Penny was justified in his actions, then the jury must acquit.

Now, the assistant district attorney, Dafna Yoran, focused on justification during her closing arguments today, saying that Penny had, quote, "Needlessly, recklessly and unjustifiably killed Jordan Neely." She called the case tragic. At one point, even saying that Daniel Penny had the right intentions. But then she said, quote, "The defendant started out trying to do the right thing, as the chokehold progressed, the defendant knew that Jordan Neely was in great distress and dying, and he needlessly continued. The defendant was given all the signs that he needed to stop.

He ignored them and he kept going until a man died. He must be held accountable for that."

So it's in the hands of the jury now, Jake. And if Daniel Penny is convicted, he could face up to 15 years in prison on the top charge. The defense, as you know, has said that their client was simply responding to a threat posed by Jordan Neely and that his only intention was to protect his fellow passengers. We expect deliberations to continue tomorrow morning.

And there are some real political implications in this case to be considered. Some New Yorkers believe that Penny should not have been prosecuted and that Alvin Bragg, the district attorney here in Manhattan, was responding to political pressure when he decided to prosecute the case. Jake?

TAPPER: Gloria Pazmino in Manhattan, thank you so much.

Let's bring in criminal defense trial attorney Stacy Schneider and former federal prosecutor Jennifer Rodgers.

Stacey, walk us through what happens behind the scenes as juries deliberate.

STACY SCHNEIDER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE TRIAL ATTORNEY: So the 12 jurors go back into a jury room after they've been instructed by the judge and they have to take all the evidence, discuss it and figure out what the medical findings were in this case to determine if whether the death of the victim was reckless under the law, which would justify a manslaughter conviction in New York State, or if it was criminally negligent or neither of them, if there was a justification for the actions of Daniel Penny, which was a self-defense type of situation.

In New York, justification is the equivalent of self-defense. But the big component that the jury needs to focus on in this case is really what the medical experts testified to because there's a big discrepancy.

The New York City medical examiner, who is supposed to be the gold standard of medical -- forensic medical evaluations, said that Daniel Penny directly caused this death through the chokehold. But Daniel Penny's lawyers brought in their own forensic pathologist, who is well known and he testified that the New York City medical examiner did not evaluate the forensic pathology report that came out after, which showed that the decedent had K2 drugs in his system and some other underlying health conditions which the defense is saying were the contributing factor in the death and that their client, the defendant, Daniel Penny, did not, could not reasonably foresee that a death would occur by holding the decedent down during this incident in the train.

[17:30:16]

TAPPER: And Jennifer, this case of course raises questions about when a common citizen can use lethal force. Could this trial set a legal precedent? What might that mean for any future similar cases?

JENNIFER RODGERS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well Jake, it wouldn't set a precedent in the sense of that the jury's verdict would then kind of, you know, be the binding law in another case that was sort of like this.

But, you know, it certainly should give people pause right? I mean you had the George Floyd incident. You have this one. These are people. Of course, George Floyd was a much more egregious case, and it was a police officer. But when you restrain someone, if that person becomes unconscious or is in any event no longer the threat that was the reason for this restraint in the first place. You really ought to think about easing up.

I mean, you know, Daniel Penny of course, is not saying necessarily, at least out loud that he wishes it didn't happen this way because he has this causation argument that Stacy talked about. But you can bet that he does, right? That he wishes that he had eased up, let the other passengers help, just hold him down until they got to the station, and that would have been it.

So I do think you're right that in the sense that, you know, bystanders need to be careful because no one wants this to happen, both for themselves and of course, for the victims.

TAPPER: All right, Jennifer Rogers, Stacey Schneider, thanks to both of you.

Some news just in on the Trump transition, the President-elect's picked ahead. The U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, or DEA, is pulling his name from consideration. Let's go right to CNN's Kristen Holmes in West Palm Beach, Florida. Kristen, what is the reasoning here?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes Jake, this is actually one of the lesser known candidates that was put up for one of these big positions. He is the Hillsborough Florida sheriff and he just withdrew his name after a lot of controversy and a lot of pushback from different corners of MAGA world.

Now, he didn't mention that in why he withdrew his name. We're still trying to track down if that had anything to do with the withdrawal. But here's what he said online. He said, I -- to have been nominated by President-elect Donald Trump to serve as an administrator of the Drug Enforcement Administration is the honor of a lifetime. Over the past several days, as the gravity of this very important responsibility set in, I've concluded that I must respectfully withdraw from consideration. There is more work to be done for the citizens of Hillsborough County and a lot of incentives I am committed to fulfilling. I sincerely appreciate the nomination outpouring of support by the American people and look forward to continuing my service as sheriff in Hillsborough County.

Now, we had heard a lot of commotion from the MAGA wing of Donald Trump's Republican Party, essentially pushing back on, one, this sheriff had arrested a pastor in 2020 for violating COVID protocols. That was something that obviously ticked off a lot of people in that universe.

We also heard there were past things that the sheriff had said that indicated that the Republican Party might not be the party of Trump, that there was no place for people who didn't support Trump in that Republican Party. And they also seemed to be a indication that he was apolitical in various ways. So this was one thing that we had been tracking, but we hadn't really heard much about his appointment after Donald Trump announced it. Now clearly he is withdrawing his name.

[17:33:21]

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

Today there's a new push to release the ethics committee report into former Congressman Matt Gaetz. The Democrat behind this move joins us live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, former congressman Matt Gaetz might no longer be President-elect Trump's pick to be U.S. Attorney General. He may no longer be a member of Congress. Yet, that's not stopping a push to release this much discussed House Ethics Committee report. This afternoon, Democratic Congressman Sean Casten of the State of Illinois re-upped a resolution to get the entire House Ethics Committee report released. And he joins us now. Congressman Casten, thanks so much for joining.

You're calling for a vote to release the report. Matt Gaetz is no longer in contention to be Attorney General. He's currently not even in public office. Why should a report centered on allegations Gaetz is denied be made public?

REP. SEAN CASTEN (D-IL): Because ultimately, we have to hold ourselves to a higher standard. The -- there is an ample precedent. There have in fact, in going back to 1987, there have been at least four members of Congress we've identified who were under ethics investigation, who resigned. And that ethics report was completed and in three of those cases was then released to the public.

And that's important because the reason we have the Ethics Committee is to make sure that we hold ourselves to the higher standard. The American people look to us and say Congress comports themselves with a dignity. These charges against Mr. Gaetz, allegations to be sure. But these charges are -- are -- are damning and disgusting sex with a 17- year-old child.

If we say that you can simply resign from Congress and then all of these problems go away, then we would have to assume that this institution that I love will fall in public respect in the way that so many institutions that we are all aware of who have shuffled sexual assault allegations under the rug, who have moved people around, who have allowed them to resign their way out of disclosure, the way that the respect for those institutions have fallen. And I don't want and I don't think we as Americans can afford to have the U.S. Congress fall down to those levels of disrespect.

TAPPER: So what -- what is the status of this move, are -- is it going to hit the floor automatically -- like tell us how it works? And -- and what would you say to those who say maybe this is more about getting Republican congressmen on the record with a vote?

[17:39:47] CASTEN: So the process, we filed a privileged resolution under the protocols of the House that means it would need to come up for a vote within two legislative days. In terms of the calendar, that means Thursday.

The -- now to be fair, this could go away if the Ethics Committee released their report. I would remind your viewers that the Ethics Committee was prepared to release this in July. They were then prepared again to release it in November. They're now saying they're meeting on this Thursday as well.

So if they release the report, we have nothing to do. But we just need to make sure that Congress is saying that a closed door meeting of the Ethics Committee cannot be the last word if that last word is to shovel this under the rug.

TAPPER: So I -- I know you've said sensitive material should be redacted to protect witnesses, but once this is out, don't you -- don't you fear it could put some people who chose to speak with the committee in -- in -- in private, people who want to stay anonymous? Could it -- could it put them in danger at all?

CASTEN: Well, look, if the Ethics Committee had said two weeks ago that that was their concern, then I could imagine we'd be having a different conversation right now. What we saw, and I think you saw in -- in Congresswoman Wild's interview afterwards, was that was a straight party line vote simply not to release.

Yes, of course we are concerned. These, you know, these women who came forward very bravely in a private situation and disclosed fairly, you know, in -- intimate information to the committee, we want to make sure that we've got every ability to protect their information. I have every confidence that the Ethics Committee knows how to do that.

But what I am much more concerned about is that someone who is alleged to have -- have -- have taken these actions, if that person is then allowed to go get another job with other vulnerable people and continue that -- that alleged predation, that's vastly worse.

TAPPER: What about the precedent that some will argue you're setting that just House Ethics Committee reports should just all be released even if people are ultimately not found guilty? There might be messy details. Personally, by the way, I don't -- I don't care. I'd love to see all of it as a journalist and as an American. But this committee does exist with the understanding of a certain degree of discretion.

CASTEN: Well, I -- I think we need to separate -- separate out two separate issues there. I mentioned these examples before. You had Eric Massa as a Democrat, Mark Foley, Bob Bonner. I'm going to forget some of these names here. There's a number of these members going back over through our history who have had very significant allegations of misconduct where that information was released.

Yes. There are a ton of ethics cases where, you know, maybe it's a political, you know, somebody wants to file a political claim against somebody. The Ethics Committee investigates says there's no smoke there's no need to release that information. So I don't think that's a precise comparison. But where we have a situation where we know objectively that Matt Gaetz resigned from Congress in order to prevent this from becoming public, that is the precedent we need to protect ourselves from.

Because if that is the new rule, then we can't say that we're a country where the same rules apply to everybody, regardless. If you commit a crime, you should be held accountable, and that precedent matters.

TAPPER: So on Thursday, either the committee is going to release this report or there's going to be a vote on the floor of the House to release it or not release it. We look forward to Thursday. Democratic Congressman Sean Casten of Illinois, thank you so much.

CASTEN: Thank you Jake.

[17:43:03]

TAPPER: The new twist today in the case of the stowaway who somehow got past multiple security checkpoints to board a flight from New York to Paris.

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TAPPER: And we're back with our World Lead. And bizarre new developments in the case of the stowaway who snuck aboard a Delta flight last week from New York to Paris. The woman stowaway was due to leave France this morning and was in her seat on the plane when Delta refused to fly her. The airline has since announced she will be flown out tomorrow with two French security escorts.

Joining us now, pilot and CNN aerospace analyst, Miles O'Brien. Miles, what do you make of this latest twist in the saga?

MILES O'BRIEN, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well Jake, I -- I think Delta is a little concerned about the fact that she was rather difficult when they tried to return her over the weekend, to say the least, so much so that the pilot had her removed from the flight. So they want to make sure there's an appropriate amount of security around her.

It is the responsibility of the airline to return individuals who arrive in another country without the appropriate visa or passport, and they face all kinds of penalties and fines if they don't do it. And they have to be transporting them back to the point of origin. So it's on Delta to do this. But clearly they're concerned about their -- their other customers on the airplane at this point.

TAPPER: So investigators are -- are still trying to figure out how this woman got past multiple security checkpoints at JFK airport. How concerned should flyers be at safety and security at airports in airplanes right now?

O'BRIEN: I think the most important takeaway in this, Jake, is that she was in fact scanned, put through a body scanner and her luggage, to whatever extent she had luggage with her, went through the screening process that did occur. So no matter what happened after that, in theory, she was not a -- a potential threat on board that aircraft. She -- she was obviously a problem as a stowaway, but she wasn't able to smuggle anything on board. TSA did screen her.

Now, how she was able to check in and get to that point, perhaps she had just a random domestic ticket and used it to get inside the security bubble. Once you're inside the bubble, as you know, you can go to any gate you like. And if you want to try to get on, which this person apparently did, that's what happened. There -- there is another lay of security, of course, getting on the aircraft, but you can imagine busy Thanksgiving weekend. It is possible that in the scrum that occurs outside the Jetway, she managed to sneak her way on board.

[17:50:15]

TAPPER: How are pilots supposed to react if they find out midair that someone had -- had snuck on the flight?

O'BRIEN: Well, the most important thing is to make sure that that person is not a threat to the aircraft or others and they have to make a real time call. Where are they in the world if they're, you know, sort of past the halfway point to -- to Paris, you keep on going. If it was discovered much sooner, and as you know, it was discovered just before landing at Charles de Gaulle, which is kind of interesting on its own right.

But if it had occurred within a few hours of departure of JFK, they probably would have turned the plane back around to avoid, if nothing else, the penalties and fines which Delta now faces for allowing this individual to arrive in Paris without a visa to be inside the Schengen line.

TAPPER: All right, Miles O'Brien, thanks for sharing your expertise. Appreciate it.

The strong and colorful language from the general manager of the Texans football team today as the NFL hands down a punishment to one of his players for a late and illegal hit. That's next.

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TAPPER: In our Sports Lead, the Houston Texans general manager now lashing out following the suspension of star linebacker Azeez Al- Shaair.

[17:55:40]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK CASERIO, HOUSTON TEXANS GENERAL MANAGER: For the league to make some of the commentary that Dean made about lack of sportsmanship, lack of coachability, lack of paying attention to the rules, quite frankly, it's embarrassing. The picture that's been painted about Azeez, his intentions, who he is as a person. I mean, quite frankly, it's bullshit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Al-Shaair now suspended for three games without pay. This is after he hit Jacksonville Jaguars quarterback Trevor Lawrence in the head, giving him a concussion and triggering an all-out brawl. The NFL condemning the hit as unacceptable, calling out Al-Shaair's repeated violations. The NFL sent a letter to the linebacker saying, quote, your lack of sportsmanship and respect for the game of football and all those who play, coach and enjoy watching it is troubling and does not reflect the core values of the NFL, unquote.

For his part, Al-Shaair apologized Monday on social media saying he did not see Lawrence sliding and it happened in the blink of an eye. Let's bring in CNN sports analyst, Christine Brennan. Christine, what -- what are you hearing from insiders about the suspension of Al- Shaair?

CHRISTINE BRENNAN, CNN SPORTS ANALYST: The NFL feels very good about what it did. Obviously, the concern of course is a hit to the head. This is the second concussion or the second time that -- that Trevor Lawrence has been in concussion protocol in within a year basically. Happened a year ago and now again for this four-year quarterback, now second time and of course now we'll see if he plays again at all this year.

They're taking the hit to the head and concussions very seriously, as they should be, Jake. It's a topic you and I have discussed in the past. And, you know, it's all the way back nine years ago was the concussion movie. And I think that woke a lot of people up around the country, not even necessarily football fans, about the dangers of concussion.

The NFL has had players who have killed themselves, shooting themselves in the heart so that their brains could be studied. This is a serious issue. It has been. If it -- even if maybe public attention has waned a bit over the last few years since the movie and since the attention back about 10 years ago.

But the reality is the NFL has taken this seriously. And Al-Shaair has had punched a player, a Chicago Bear earlier in the year. He's had two instances of late hits. So this is about fourth now on the list of things that he has done, mistakes he has made, penalties or bad play in this season alone, Jake. And that's why I think the NFL feels warranted to be able to give out the three game suspension that it gave out.

TAPPER: So CNN has reached out to Al-Shaair. We have not heard back on what his next steps might be. Do you think he -- he might appeal?

BRENNAN: Yes, I do. In fact, absolutely every player has the right to do that and I think he will. The Texans are not playing next week, this coming weekend. So they actually have some time to -- to see if they might, you know, be able to win that appeal.

But it is three games right now. I guess I could see a scenario where that would be reduced to two or one. But this -- this -- this very strong talk both ways. I mean, you rarely see that in the NFL. I've covered the league for a long time where you would literally have a team arguing so publicly against the punishment that the NFL gave out.

TAPPER; Do you think he might be successful despite history of repeated violations?

BRENNAN: You know, I think the question is how much does the NFL want to throw the book at this guy, right? They came on very strong with this three game suspension. The Texans have replied, obviously they don't like it at all.

But I think the video and the tape shows very clearly that he has had some really bad hits on people this year. And of course the -- the hit on Lawrence, it -- it's just hard to watch. It is scary. Who knows if in fact Jacksonville might shut down Lawrence. They're two and 10 this year. They're having a terrible season. Maybe they'll just say, hey, you know, to -- to a young quarterback like Trevor Lawrence, you know, you're going to take the rest of the year off. We don't know yet.

I -- I would be surprised if they would reduce the suspension completely. I could certainly see a scenario, maybe they reduce it one game. I also could see a situation where the NFL says no way. We are definitely going to make sure that this punishment sticks.

TAPPER: All right, Christine Brennan, thanks so much as always. Appreciate it.

Before we go, a puzzling one in our World Lead, a group of grinches pillaged a pie van in northern England. Not just any pastries, these two -- 2,500 pies were baked by Michelin star chef, Tommy Banks, and apparently worth more than $31,000. Police say they've now found the van -- found the van, but the pies remain missing.

[18:00:11]

Taking to Instagram, Chef Banks addressed the thieves, pleading for them to donate the pies, saying, quote, I know you're a criminal, but maybe just do something nice because it's Christmas.

The news continues on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. I'll see you tomorrow.