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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Aftershocks Rattle California After 7.0 Magnitude Earthquake; New Images Of Person Of Interest In CEO's Shooting; Musk Ramaswamy Hold First DOGE Meetings On Capitol Hill; Trump Takes Credit As Bitcoin Smashes Records. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 05, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:04]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: And topping the charts of music and mispronunciation espresso. It's not espresso, even though it makes you feel that way. Not for music not for coffee. I think espresso is the vibe.

ALEXANDER MARQUARDT, CNN HOST: You hear a lot of espresso. I admit -- I would have said Zendaya.

KEILAR: I did, too, for the longest time and it's still difficult for me.

MARQUARDT: That just shows my age.

But anyway most of you out there probably would get Keilar and Marquardt wrong as well. So you know we're in the clear.

KEILAR: That's right.

We would not get Jake Tapper and THE LEAD wrong. It starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper and we are following breaking news on two fronts right now.

First, in the New York City manhunt, brand new surveillance video appearing to show the man who killed the UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. The video was taken about a half hour before yesterdays shooting.

Also new today, new photos from NYPD of an unmasked man whom NYPD says is a person of interest. We're going to go live to New York in a moment where this intensifying manhunt is underway.

But first, several powerful aftershocks after a major 7.0 earthquake off the coast of California.

Let's go right to CNN meteorologist Chad Myers.

Chad, the tsunami warning has thankfully been lifted, but there is still a threat of more aftershocks. Tell us more.

CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Oh, no question, Jake. I mean, we've had over 30 aftershocks already from 2.5 up to about

5.1, but 7.0 was this big quake. So we were in for a shock. Now the jolt felt very heavy by only about 15,000 people.

This is Bigfoot country. This is Redwood country, not a very populated area there. And that's the good news. But when I saw this 7.0, what we didn't know was how much the ground had moved under the ocean and did the ground move up or down or just back and forth.

And so that's why this really statewide, all the way from Oregon, all the way down to San Francisco, significant tsunami warning went out and it went out for a lot of people. And the phones were going off. Get away from the shore. This is possible but now the tsunami warning has now been canceled.

This was a big quake, no question about it. But it was offshore. It wasn't very deep, which concerned me because that told me that this could be a real water mover and it didn't do that. And that's the good news. It slipped sideways and not up and down but 7.0 between strong and major.

Now there are 15 of these worldwide over the year, but just not usually so close to land. That's the good news, and certainly not so close to California or anywhere in the U.S.

So, yes, it was a big quake and there was a severe threat of tsunamis but now that threat is over. It didn't happen.

TAPPER: All right. Chad Myers, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Let's bring in seismologist Chris Goldfinger to understand what exactly is going on.

Chris, a 7.0 earthquake is a sizable earthquake. What is your assessment of this one?

CHRIS GOLDFINGER, SEISMOLOGIST: Well, Jake, this -- this earthquake was on the Mendocino fault, the fault that bounds the Cascadia subduction zone and the San Andreas Fault. Very complicated area called the Mendocino triple junction, where these three things come together.

And this earthquake was one of many. There have been about 7 or 8 of these earthquakes of this size or larger in the last hundred years or so. So they're not super common, but they're not super rare either. This -- this earthquake is a -- is an effect of the Cascadia subduction zone, the Juan De Fuca plate slipping forward toward a future great earthquake.

But it also has very little chance of generating a tsunami because the blocks move side by side instead of up and down and its the up and down motion that generates water motion for a tsunami. This was side by side, so very little chance of generating a tsunami from this type of earthquake, which is the good news.

TAPPER: Obviously, there's still talk of California being long overdue for the big one, a major earthquake that could cause significant damage are you surprised that that the big one hasn't happened yet?

GOLDFINGER: Well, yeah, the San Andreas Fault is sort of the culprit that everyone knows about, the southern half of it and the northern half of it seem to operate a bit independently. The southern half may well be a bit overdue, the northern half, which is involved with this a little bit with this earthquake. Probably not overdue yet since we had the 1906 earthquake, you know, a bit over 100 years ago. And it made the average repeat time for them may be something in the neighborhood of 200 years.

But definitely, the southern part in the L.A. area is considered by most people to be either due or maybe a bit overdue.

TAPPER: Does climate change play any role in the increasing severity of earthquakes?

GOLDFINGER: Well, that's a -- yeah, that's a good question. A lot of people are trying to work on that. Sea level change could have some effect on it, but there's really no -- no evidence that that it has much effect at this point. But there's a lot of people digging into that question. It's a really good question.

TAPPER: Chris Goldfinger, thank you so much for your expertise. We appreciate it.

Turning now to our other breaking news story, the manhunt in New York City after the brazen -- brazen killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. The NYPD released their clearest images yet of what they're calling a person of interest wanted for questioning. Police are working to determine whether this person of interest is a possible suspect.

CNN geolocated these pictures from a hostel in upper Manhattan, where police believe the gunman may have been staying.

Enforcement sources also tell CNN that the word "depose" was written on a shell casing of a round that was fired at and into Brian Thompson. The word "delay" was written on a live round that was not fired, but was ejected when the shooter appeared to clear a jam in his gun. Why those words could be key in revealing a motive, we'll bring to you in a second.

Also found a burner phone and a bottle of water with a smudged fingerprint. Police say the shooter may have dropped these items as he fled through an alley before getting on an electric bike and heading towards Central Park, where he was last seen yesterday morning.

All of these clues as authorities work to find a killer who may still be in the most populated city in the United States.

CNN's Brynn Gingras has more now, on the new evidence discovered in this manhunt that has rattled the streets of Manhattan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): New chilling images of a person who may be the focus of a massive manhunt, a person of interest to police seen here smiling. These pictures put out by the NYPD. And sources say they come from an upper Manhattan hostel where its believed the shooter may have stayed a couple of days before the Wednesday morning murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.

You can see this person has no mask on. It's a clearer image of his face and police hoping this along with a collection of photos released, will help name him.

New York City Mayor Eric Adams commenting on the case.

MAYOR ERIC ADAMS, NEW YORK CITY: Pieces of the puzzle there are still coming together. We feel that we're moving at a steady pace and we're going to have someone apprehended.

GINGRAS: Sources say they believe this person tried to hide his identity by wearing a mask. For most of his visit, even while rooming with two strangers. But for this one moment, at least, at the hostel's front desk, police were able to obtain this image.

The new development comes as investigators continue tracing the known movements of the gunman before and after the murder. Authorities say they have video of the suspected gunman on New York City's Upper West Side early Wednesday morning, then later exiting the 57th Street Subway around 6:15. He enters a nearby Starbucks roughly two minutes later, where sources tell CNN he bought a water and two power bars.

And at 6:30, this surveillance video from a nearby garage shows the suspected shooter on the phone walking down the street toward the midtown hotel where, minutes later, he carries out the brazen attack.

ADAMS: In all my years of law enforcement, I have never seen a silencer before. And so that was a really something that was shocking to us all. And so, we on the right path and we believe we're going to apprehend this person.

GINGRAS: The gunman makes a quick getaway, but not without leaving behind some crucial evidence. Investigators found a burner phone and that water bottle bought from Starbucks. Sources say a fingerprint was lifted from the items but hasn't yet pointed to a name.

Police are also searching for a motive. Sources say at the crime scene, they found a shell casing and live round etched with the words "delay" and "depose". They're asking, was this retaliation over a health care issue? As a popular health care industry phrase is delay, deny and defend.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GINGRAS (on camera): And, Jake, we've been showing you images and pictures from all around New York City that police are sort of piecing together, like a puzzle, a new one that we're learning about, according to sources, that shows possibly this gunman coming out of the subway system on 85th Street. That would be on the upper west side of Manhattan. I gather again, another clue for detectives to look into.

Another thing I want to mention is that photo that was released by police where their mask is down and that person considered right now a person of interest. We're told by the NYPD that that was released at 11:30 this morning. And since then, they have received a number of tips.

So, of course, police chasing all those down, hoping maybe that could be the break in this case -- Jake.

All right. Brynn Gingras in New York, thanks so much.

I want to bring in chief -- CNN chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst, John Miller.

John, so new photos, a smudged fingerprint, "depose" and "delay" written on ammunition. This all seems like a lot of information that could help police identify a suspect.

I would guess that they're close, but what do you think?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, I think that they may go from being far away to very close because of what Brynn just reported and it was Brynn who broke the story this morning about police searching this hostel and coming up with these videos.

[16:10:08]

But now that you've got a face, it's not the kind of face that if you bumped into him yesterday, you would remember, oh, I saw that guy. But if you knew him, if he was a coworker or a relative, you'd recognize him from these pictures right away.

So that's what's generating more and more of these tips that are coming in. And history has shown us when you do this with the detectives and you do your best to investigation, you might get lucky. But when you crowd source it with millions of people through the media, generally, that speeds the process up. And that's what they're hoping.

TAPPER: And the words "depose" and "delay" found written on the ammunition that certainly seems like it could point to a motive.

MILLER: And that's what they are thinking the message is. It means depose, delay deny. You know, the three Ds of the insurance industry, as critics sometimes frame it when they're trying to not pay or lowball on claims. This would be a variation on those terms, but they think that that may be the message.

So where's the third word? It could be in a bullet that was not fired, or it could have burned off in a bullet that was fired through the gun and ejected and just not be visible writing on a -- on a 9 millimeter round, which is very small, is a pretty tedious process so to go to the trouble to do that, you know he certainly wanted to tell us something. One more thing, Jake, as you look at these pictures, you got that gray

backpack. He's wearing it in the Starbucks. He wears it during the shooting. But when you look at the pictures from the hostel that police have where his face is shown, you see that the gray backpack is gone. It's a black strap and a black backpack that he's got.

The gray backpack is seen going into Central Park yesterday as he's riding that e-bike. When he comes out of the park on 77th Street, its gone. They did a massive search of Central Park using mobile field forces trying to find it. And despite the grid search overturning garbage cans and looking in the bushes and behind rocks and that backpack is missing and we don't know neither do police what was inside of it, whether someone found it whether it contained the gun or other evidence but its still out there somewhere.

TAPPER: Right, and it also that opens up the possibility that he didn't operate alone, right? I mean, maybe there was an accomplice, who knows?

MILLER: Or, I mean, it could be the flip side of that which is he just got rid of it so that if he was stopped somewhere, he wouldn't be carrying the evidence.

TAPPER: Do you think police at this point have a sense of who this person is?

MILLER: I think they have a short list of suspects that look attractive because they -- they look like the individual. And there is something in their background that suggested. But I've been in these cases before and you can go through all of those people and you know you go into each one of those examinations with the idea of, let's eliminate this person, let's prove its not them until you run out of them or until you get down that path and it's -- you prove that it is one of them, and that's what they're doing.

TAPPER: Well, talk about the notion that this person wrote "depose" and "delay" on these shell casings. That suggests that he wanted the shell casings to be found, that he wanted there to be a message tied to this murder.

MILLER: And that is a rare and yet not unprecedented thing. I mean, we see that with serial killers where, you know, in the case of the son of Sam, you know, he left a letter at the scene taunting police. In this case, the clues really point to motive.

But look, Jake, you raise a really interesting question here, which is, are these clues the actual motive?

TAPPER: Right.

MILLER: Or is this something where there's another motive and they are trying to disguise this as a work-related killing.

Regardless, you know, police will have to keep an open mind and not -- not stay on one path. And at the same time, let me tell you that my friends in the security

industry say their phones lit up tomorrow and continue today asking to hire teams of people to act as security details for hospital chiefs, for health care executives, for people who have nothing to do with the industry, hedge fund bosses and financial people, CEOs. This has struck a chord out there.

TAPPER: John Miller, thanks so much. Really appreciate it. We'll bring you back on the show later with the latest.

New expert analysis on the forensics of the case, the messages on the bullets, the smudged fingerprint, the surveillance video, how all of this could help trace the killers steps.

Plus, a busy afternoon on Capitol Hill, including a major vote in just a few hours, as Democrats are pushing to get the House Ethics Committee report on Matt Gaetz released, the investigation into sexual misconduct allegations against Trump's first pick for attorney general, allegations Gaetz denies.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Breaking news out of New York City. Brand new video from a subway station of what appears to be the person wanted for the murder of UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson. The NYPD also today releasing these new photographs of what they call a person of interest, who they want for questioning.

At the crime scene, law enforcement officials are telling CNN that they found the words depose written on a shell casing and delay on a live round. Also found a burner phone and a smudged fingerprint on a bottle of water.

Let's get analysis now from former homeland security assistant secretary, Juliette Kayyem, and Stephen Gutowski, an expert on firearms and founder of Reload, which focuses on firearms policy and politics.

Juliette, we're inching closer to day three of this manhunt. What are investigators currently doing with all the clues they've gathered so far? It's -- it sounds like a lot of clues.

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, it is a lot of clues. And they are assessing across a variety of areas. One is, of course the surveillance. Lots of film coming in from both days before, hours before, and then, of course, the incident. They are looking at physical evidence. This water bottle, the camera, the bullets, the casings with the sort of these words on them that make it seem like it's -- this murder is about a claim.

[16:20:08]

But the third is also they're looking at the threats that either the company or the victim received and how specific they were. These CEOs for these -- these companies and John Miller was talking this a little bit about executive security, this world that a lot of people don't know about, they are getting threats all the time because they are the face of that company. People are mad at those companies for a variety of reasons, but they're looking back now where any of these quite specific seem to be more harassing than just the general, I don't, you know, I don't like you or I don't like the service and then can try to hone in on who -- who the person is.

TAPPER: And, Stephen, law enforcement sources tell CNN that the words "depose" and "delay" were written on a shell casing and a live round that apparently was jamming. Have you ever heard of such a thing?

STEPHEN GUTOWSKI, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: No. Honestly, I think as your previous guest mentioned, it's a nine millimeter round is --

TAPPER: Teeny.

GUTOWSKI: -- pretty small. So if you're -- if you're writing a message on there and, you know, intending to shoot someone with it and leave the casing behind for people to find, I mean, that you're definitely trying to send some kind of message by doing that, whether it's a truthful one or some sort of red herring.

TAPPER: Red herring, yeah.

GUTOWSKI: We don't know. But I mean, that's pretty wild.

TAPPER: Juliette, what do you make of the appearance of this person of interest.

KAYYEM: So this is the crowd-sourcing that is necessary at this stage, the further we get from the killing, it is -- it's going to be harder. For one, he may have moved. He could be very far away at this stage.

So we've seen this in the past. The Boston marathon bombings being the best example in which a couple days go by. They're trying to figure it out. They finally get a picture. They're going to crowdsource this -- source it and determine who he is.

I am -- I've been -- I want to say about this when I heard about this yesterday, I was a little bit calm about it. Not in a not to dismiss it, but just that it did seem quite targeted. In other words, it didn't seem like there was a greater threat.

But the more we go on and the more we're learning it, it's getting a little bit more eerie. And I don't mean that he was a professional hitman, but just the extent to which, you know, he clearly knew what he was doing. He has a motive that motive. He's preparing for this for many days, if not months or years. He's got a silencer that is that is uncommon. He's cold and calculating in the kill.

And then as importantly, his -- he seems to vanish into thin air quite successfully. Now, I think the NYPD will get him relatively soon but there is something remarkably, sort of disconcerting, I think, for many people and in particular people in leadership positions about this.

TAPPER: So, Stephen, you see right there the video of the horrible murder of the -- of the health care CEO, detectives say that they believe that he this murderer operated in a way that suggests he's an experienced marksman, a skilled shooter.

What do you think? You are an experienced marksman.

GUTOWSKI: Yeah. When I watched the video, what I take away from his actions is that he is an intermediate shooter. He has some experience with this firearm. He seems to understand that it's not going to cycle properly because when he takes that first shot, he immediately goes to manually cycle the gun.

Now we can tell from the video because of the way the gun recoils, that it is a semi-automatic firearm. So it should be ejecting and loading around every time he pulls the trigger. But it's not because it's not properly set up.

TAPPER: So he's experienced enough to know like, oh, this isn't working.

GUTOWSKI: Yeah, he's had experience with the setup. He knows it doesn't work, but also I guess either he was in too much of a hurry to fix the fact that it wasn't working properly. Or he maybe didn't -- wasn't experienced enough to know why it wasn't working properly and be able to fix that issue.

So, you know, to me, I see somebody who's an intermediate shooter, they know how to clear a malfunction but they didn't seem to know how to set up the gun.

They're using ammunition that doesn't make quite as much sense for what they're intending to do in this situation. They used full metal jacket, which is more of a target ammunition that you use at a range. Most people would use a hollow point ammunition for a situation where you're actually going to be shooting at people, either in self-defense or in this case to murder somebody.

And so, there's a number of things that get pointed out as -- he's an intermediate, maybe not expert or super experienced.

TAPPER: All right. Stephen Gutowski and Juliette Kayyem, thanks to both of you for your expertise. Appreciate it.

This special programming note a special edition of "LAURA COATES LIVE", "Manhunt: The Search for the CEO Killer". Laura and her team of experts are going to take you inside the dramatic search for the gunman and his motive. That's tonight at 11:00 Eastern here on CNN.

Next here on THE LEAD, the big day on Capitol Hill with Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy as real talks begin on cutting trillions of dollars from the federal budget.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:29:22]

TAPPER: And we're back as police in New York are using surveillance images to piece together a timeline of the gunman in yesterdays shooting of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. We're going to have more coverage on that manhunt ahead.

But first in our politics lead, the meeting that Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina is calling, quote, the art of the possible. Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy, the two men selected by President-elect Trump to lead the Department of Government Efficiency, D-O-G, D-O-G-E or DOGE on Capitol Hill, they laid out their plans for what seems an impossible task getting lawmakers to agree on nearly $2 trillion in federal spending cuts.

[16:30:01]

We're getting our first look inside the meeting, thanks to Republican Senator Mike Lee of Utah, who posted this photo on X of House Speaker Mike Johnson with Ramaswamy Musk and Musk's son.

I want to bring in a member of the new DOGE Caucus, Republican congressman of Florida, Carlos Gimenez, who just left that meeting with Musk and Ramaswamy.

Congressman, thanks for joining us.

What exactly are they telling you? They want to do? How to trim $2 trillion?

REP. CARLOS GIMENEZ (R-FL): Well, I think -- well, that that meeting is really to listen from us and try to elicit some ideas from us on where they should be looking. And so it wasn't so much with their -- they were -- they were going to do. They were asking us, okay, what should we be looking at and how would should we should go about it?

I know that they have some concrete plans of what they want to do, but this is more of a give and take session. What happened in there today?

TAPPER: So Republican congressman of Georgia, Richard McCormick, acknowledged that some hard decisions are ahead for anybody who wants to cut that much money from the federal budget. Take a listen to what he said a couple of days ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RICHARD MCCORMICK (R-GA): You have about 75 percent of the budget, 75 percent is non-discretionary. We're going to have to have some hard decisions. We got to bring the Democrats in and talk about Social Security, Medicaid, Medicare. There's hundreds of billions of dollars to be saved, and we know how to do it. We just have to have the stomach to actually take those challenges on.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: So how do you do that? Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, are they going to get cut? Are you going to raise taxes? What exactly is the way to deal with the programs? The way the congressman was talking about?

GIMENEZ: Well, I think that what we talked about today wasn't really talking about any of the benefits cuts. It's actually how those benefits are being distributed to the American people. And that we know that there are there's massive fraud with some of those benefits.

And also, there's a bureaucracy that distributes those benefits to the people. Can we streamline the bureaucracy? Can we make sure that the people that are supposed to be getting the benefits are getting the benefits, and those folks that aren't supposed to be getting benefits or maybe are getting too many benefits that they're not entitled to, also, all that comes into line.

So that's the first thing that I believe that that Musk and Ramaswamy are going to be looking at is just the actual structure of how these benefits are actually given and paid out to the American people, because we know there's a lot of money to be saved there.

TAPPER: Well, I mean, two things that come to mind is one, the average social security recipient, I believe receives much more than they have put into the program. And then two, it's difficult to argue that everybody needs Social Security to the same degree, somebody who has $5 million in the bank when they retire does not need it to the same degree that somebody who has no savings. Well, are those discussions going to happen?

GIMENEZ: Well, look, again, those are the discussions that we had today. Today was just the bureaucracy of how those benefits are being distributed to the American people, and that we know that people are getting some benefits that shouldn't be getting them. And people who maybe even from outside the country are getting benefits that they shouldn't be getting. And so we've discovered that, too.

Then on top of that, we talked about those things that the government has to do, the things that that we should do and the things that are nice to do and the things that we shouldn't be doing at all. And then those -- those agencies that are doing things that we shouldn't be doing at all, they probably need to be eliminated.

We also need to -- I believe we need to do a hiring freeze for the non-critical positions, and then do a top to bottom review of all the agencies and look at their bureaucracy and reestablish a new base for that bureaucracy, and that -- that's something that every organization, corporation needs to do every 10 to 20 years to reestablish that base, because bureaucracies as a norm tend to grow and grow and grow.

You've got to cut back that bureaucracy and reestablish a new base that also helps you save money not just this year, but in the years that are coming forward.

TAPPER: Republican Congressman Carlos Gimenez, thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Good to see you.

Also on the Hill, Pete Hegseth, Trump's troubled pick for secretary of defense. What he just told reporters about his critical meetings with the Senate Republicans that he will need for confirmation. Stay with us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S NOMINE FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY: It's been a great day, a great day --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:38:27]

TAPPER: At this hour, police are on the hunt for a masked killer who gunned down the CEO of UnitedHealthcare.

It's been more than 24 hours since the murder. What are the challenges for the NYPD as they try to trace the killers steps? What other companies are doing as they race to protect top executives? We're going to have more experts standing by to weigh in.

But first, we have some other breaking news in our politics lead, Pete Hegseth, Donald Trump's pick to lead the secretary of defense -- to lead the Defense Department, rather, is fighting to keep his nomination alive. Today, the former "Fox and Friends" weekend co-host and decorated veteran met with senators on Capitol Hill.

And if you ask Hegseth, everything is going great. How was the meeting?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: How are the meetings going?

PETE HEGSETH, TRUMP'S PICK FOR DEFENSE SECRETARY: Great.

REPORTER: How did the meeting with Ernst go?

HEGSETH: It was a constructive and candid. It was great.

REPORTER: Did she bring up the allegations?

HEGSETH: I'm not going to talk about private conversations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Senator Joni Ernst, a Republican of Iowa and the first female combat veteran elected to the U.S. Senate and a survivor of sexual assault, struck a somewhat different tone when describing her meeting with Hegseth on Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): We will continue with the vetting process. I think that that is incredibly important.

BILL HEMMER, FOX NEWS HOST: It doesn't sound on your answer that you've gotten to a yes. If I'm wrong about that, correct me. And if that is the case, it sounds to me as if the hearing will be critical for his nomination. Am I right about that?

ERNST: I think -- I think you are right. I think for a number of our senators, they want to make sure that any allegations have been cleared.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: My panel joins me now.

Jonah Goldberg, let me start with you.

So based on what we've heard from Republican senators these last two days, do you see Pete Hegseth's nomination getting through?

[16:40:08]

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think the -- let me flip the question around. Based on what we haven't heard from senators so far this week --

TAPPER: Right.

GOLDBERG: I feel like -- I think Bill Hemmer basically got it right there, the hearing is going to be make or break for Hegseth. And if I had to bet right now, I don't think he makes it. I think a lot of the senators basically are just keeping their powder dry. It's not in their political interest to commit against him at any really, and except for a few of them, it's not in their interest to commit for him particularly when you aren't confident that more information isn't coming out.

So we're just going to wait and see.

TAPPER: So one of the things that we keep hearing is about these allegations that he has an alcohol issue, although he says he doesn't anymore. And some senators have been trying to get him to promise he won't drink if he gets the job. And I think he said he -- he won't drink if he gets the job.

Donald Trump we know --

GOLDBERG: I won't drink if I get the job either.

TAPPER: Donald -- I'll drink if you get the job.

(LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: So -- but Donald Trump has -- he doesn't -- he doesn't respect people who have alcohol problems. I'm not saying that that's the right thing, but we know that from his brother who had an alcohol problem. How much do you think Donald Trump's going to stick by Hegseth?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first off, Washington is full of recovering alcoholics and alcoholics who need to recover. So I don't think --

TAPPER: I'm not disparaging it. I don't want anyone to think I am.

TODD: I think, first off, Roger Wicker, the chairman of the Armed Services Committee, asked him tough questions about that.

Kevin Cramer who expressed some reservations, ask him questions about that, the senator from Dakota. He --

TAPPER: Who's son -- he lost a son to alcoholism.

TODD: Correct. And he seems satisfied and says he's going to support the nomination.

And so, that's what -- this is what advice and consent looks like, right? Nominees come. They meet with senators. They get tough questions in private. If they don't get good answers, then they get tough questions in public.

I think the hearing will matter. Joni Ernst is on the committee. If she doesn't get her questions answered in private, you can bet she's going to fire away in the hearing. I think if he clears the hearing, he wins the floor.

TAPPER: So I spoke with Hegseth's attorney, Tim Parlatore, yesterday about the mounting allegations against his client. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Why do you think there are so many people coming out of the woodwork saying these things that have to do with either sexual or alcoholic impropriety?

TIM PARLATORE, ATTORNEY FOR PETE HEGSETH: This is unfortunately, one of the things that has happened in this country when people are going for a confirmed position.

TAPPER: Well, nobody is saying this about Marco Rubio. I mean --

PARLATORE: He's -- maybe he's going to be next. A lot of people and particularly people like Pete, that have that have lived, that have been out there -- I mean, yes, Pete is not an angel. Yes, he's been out there partying a bit. He hasn't done these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So one of the people he has met with today is your former boss, Senator Rick Scott of Florida. I also spoke with him yesterday. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RICK SCOTT (R-PA): This is a great nominee, and I'm disgusted that these anonymous sources say these things without willing to go on -- go on your show or some show and you know, have you asked them all these all the questions.

TAPPER: A point that you're making here -- the woman who accuses Pete of raping her in 2017, although the police, we should note, did not charge him with any crime. That woman Pete Hegseth paid her money and she signed a nondisclosure agreement so she cant come on my show to talk about it.

Do you think Pete should release her from the NDA so that I can ask her the questions that you want me to?

SCOTT: Absolutely not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Absolutely not. Even though he said that, you know, that I should be able to ask these anonymous accusers. What do you make of that exchange?

AMESHIA CROSS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, I think that he's trying to play both sides of the middle. At the end of the day, I think that the anonymous accuser who has the strongest legs is the one who has the nondisclosure agreement. But even with that, there's enough "there" there in questionable activity within Pete Hegseth's past, how -- how you know, close that pass is to his present is up for grabs. And I think that those questions are, you know, going to come out during the Senate hearing.

Clearly, he had an alcohol problem. Now, whether or not he wants to admit to how far that extended is a different story, we know that he also did an interview with Megyn Kelly where he kind of tried to square it off as something that never really happened, even though in previous years, he admitted to it.

But moreover, I think that in some ways the media is asking the wrong question. This is a guy who quite frankly, just is not qualified for the job. He's never managed a population that is the size of what he would do as secdef. He has no real leadership experience that showcases that he could handle the day to day activities of being the secretary of defense.

And for a Republican Party that stands on we want this, this meritocracy. We want to ensure that people are eligible for these things. We're anti DEI. Tell me why aside from him being a Fox News talking head who spewed a lot of things that were discriminatory and anti-DEI for the past three and a half years, every weekend, what makes him somebody who is qualified for this role?

TAPPER: So I just want -- I just want to note one thing that he denies that he has an alcohol problem. I just want to make sure that -- I mean, you might -- maybe they don't believe it. Certainly there are a lot of skeptics in the Senate. What were you going to say? TODD: I said there's a good reason for him to head the Department of

Defense.

[16:45:02]

Number one, we rely about one third of our fighting men and women are in the guard and reserves. Pete Hegseth is the guard and reservist who's been in combat. He's pulled the trigger. He's seen bullets go by people hundreds of thousands of those are people also qualified.

CROSS: Hundreds of thousands of people also qualified, if that's the case.

TODD: But he's led people in combat. Those are the people that have been bearing the burden, and their families have been bearing the burden of our foreign policy the last few years, many of which all of us as Republicans supported, but I think that the guards and guardsmen and women and reservists are going to be happy to see somebody who's way outside the Pentagon brass, somebody who's actually been on the line, worn the fatigues and done that job.

TAPPER: There is a managerial question here, though, that you raise, which is as far as I understand, he has run two small veterans groups, and I think both of them bid him adieu and there is no bigger, more entrenched complicated and confounding bureaucracy, perhaps in the world, but certainly in the U.S. government than the Pentagon.

GOLDBERG: Yeah. Look, I think if you take the -- just put all the messy drinking and sex life stuff aside, he's not the best pick. A big chunk of being secretary of defense is figuring out how to get pallets of toilet paper from Kansas City to Kandahar in 24 hours, and then it's a whole lot of manpower stuff.

I think there's a really strong case. I don't know if there is such a position but, you know, an undersecretary for recruitment and anti wokeness or whatever, that kind of thing, right? You could do something like that. That would make a lot of sense you could do it for a while. And then whoever you bring in first as secretary of defense, he could replace that person.

CROSS: The other thing is why does he keep choosing. So, you know, Trump's fielded other names now with the assumption that this guy may not --

TAPPER: Yeah, Joni Ernst. And Senator Bill Hagerty, Governor Ron DeSantis, keep an eye on Elbridge Colby, I think --

CROSS: People who all have more experience and who would be better suited for this role in the same way that he did, you know, once Matt Gaetz bid everybody adieu, these are people who would have been stronger in the beginning. So what is the point of choosing somebody who already has so much peril?

TODD: I think it's important to get somebody outside the current Pentagon establishment. For 12 of the last 16 years, everybody who's been promoted from colonel to general has been done so by currying the favor of a Democratic White House. There's a sense among Republicans that the military that the military brass, though, is pretty far left, and that that you do need somebody who comes from way outside that current system, that current hierarchy, to shake it up.

TAPPER: I don't know about the far left stuff, but certainly the military industrial complex would be good to have somebody from outside, that without question.

What about you?

TODD: Maybe the secretary of defense? I'd be terrible at that job.

TAPPER: You have my vote.

TODD: Terrible.

TAPPER: Thanks to one and all.

Coming up next, the bitcoin surge. What's behind it? Why is one of the biggest names in the financial industry, once said he tried to have it shut down?

Plus, the New York manhunt, the new video coming in as police try to track down a killer. More of our coverage next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:52:08]

TAPPER: The NYPD launched a massive search in Central Park looking for the missing gray backpack worn by the shooter, who killed UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. What investigators are telling us.

Plus, brand new video coming in ahead.

But first, the money lead and the kind of tone that helped push the price of bitcoin to $100,000.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: We will ensure that the future of crypto and the future of bitcoin will be made in America. Otherwise, other countries are going to have it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That was Donald Trump back in June all in on crypto when he was running for president.

Back, of course, when he was a sitting president back in 2019, he tweeted, quote, I am not a fan of bitcoin. He called it not real money. He said its value was highly volatile based on thin air.

Let's bring in CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich.

And, Vanessa, the $100,000 mark is a big deal. Why this recent surge?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, we've been watching this for about a week now wondering what was going to push the price of bitcoin over that $100,000 milestone. And it was President-elect Donald Trump's pick for SEC chair.

Yesterday, he nominated Paul Atkins. He was a former SEC commissioner. He is said to be a fan of cryptocurrency and he's expected to have a lighter touch in the position compared to current SEC Chair Gary Gensler, who has really fought to limit the scope of cryptocurrency in the U.S. That announcement pushed the price of one bitcoin over $100,000.

But as you mentioned, President-elect Donald Trump was not always a fan of crypto. But in recent months leading up to his reelection, he headlined the bitcoin 2024 event. He also started accepting cryptocurrency as campaign donation. He also started a cryptocurrency business with his family, World Liberty Financial, and he has surrounded himself, Jake, with crypto-friendly advisors.

He's even talked about, Jake, trying to appoint a crypto czar, which would be the first of its kind in any presidential administration, Jake.

TAPPER: So, Vanessa, we can't just go to the store and buy stuff with bitcoin. So what makes it so valuable?

YURKEVICH: Yeah. Don't we wish we could all spend $100,000 easily? But what makes it so valuable is like a stock, owning a stock. You're riding that high and you sell when you think it's at its peak. But a lot of analysts and also people in the U.S. financial banking system have talked about cryptocurrency as something used on the black market.

Listen to the CEO of JPMorgan, Jamie Dimon, who talked about this at a Senate Banking Committee hearing.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMIE DIMON, CEO, JPMORGAN CHASE: I've always been deeply opposed to crypto, bitcoin, et cetera. You pointed out the only true use case for it is criminals, drug traffickers, anti-money laundering, tax avoidance, and that is a use case because it is somewhat anonymous, not fully, and because you can move money instantaneously.

[16:55:02]

If I were the government, I'd close it down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH: Another powerful figure in the financial system is Jerome Powell, the Fed chair. He called cryptocurrency and bitcoin a speculative asset. So you have officials who are warning against what is a volatile cryptocurrency. But Donald Trump is really embracing it right now. And that is what has sent bitcoin across $100,000. And possibly keep going.

TAPPER: All right. Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much.

Up next, the New York City manhunt. We're getting brand new surveillance video showing after the killing of the UnitedHealthcare CEO.

Why the new images are so significant. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're going to start this hour with breaking news. CNN has just obtained new video that appears to show the gunman who killed the UnitedHealthcare CEO yesterday. New York police confirmed they have seen this video as part of this investigation showing someone riding a bike around 7:00 a.m. yesterday.