Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

NYPD Believes Suspect In CEO Shooting Left NYC; Daniel Penny Jury To Consider Lesser Charge; Hegseth Starting FBI Background Check Process; Rebel Forces Move Toward Syrian City. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired December 06, 2024 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:00:03]

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Yeah, she always does that. The next thing you know, we wake up in the morning and something happened at 3:00 a.m., she always leaves us guessing.

Nathan Hubbard, Nora Frinciotti, thank you so much to both of you. We're going to be watching. We're going to have some conspiracy theories just like you, Nora. Thank you.

NATHAN HUBBARD, FORMER CEO OF TICKETMASTER: Thank you.

KEILAR: And THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we do have some breaking news for you in our national lead right now, that manhunt for the murderer who could be anywhere.

The New York Police Department's top brass just told CNN's Shimon Prokupecz moments ago that the suspect in the murder of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare has likely left New York City. They cited video of the alleged suspected shooter entering a port authority bus terminal after the Wednesday morning shooting and not leaving the terminal. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSEPH KENNY, CHIEF OF DETECTIVES, NYPD: Eventually, we have him on 86th Street and Columbus Avenue walking. He loses the bike, and then from there we have him in a taxi cab, and the taxi cab takes him up to 178th Street and Broadway which, as we know, is a port authority bus center. Those busses are interstate busses. That's why we believe he left. He may have left New York City.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Police are still banking on someone recognizing the man grinning in this picture. That smile sources tell CNN was captured during a flirtatious moment with a female employee at the hostel in the Upper West Side, where the suspect stayed prior to his carefully planned brazen attack. As of this hour, police have not found the suspects gun or his

backpack or the bike he used.

Let's get right to CNN's Shimon Prokupecz, who's in New York City and just interviewed the New York police departments commissioner and chief of detectives.

Shimon, a lot of news that came out of this interview.

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, certainly a lot of news. And it's the first time were hearing from the police chief and the commissioner since the shooting, really, in the hours after. They have not said a word. And finally today we got some an opportunity to ask them some questions. They are really working very hard to try and figure out who this individual is. They are receiving constantly, receiving a lot of tips.

Take a listen to some more of what they told me about their investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNY: We have him on video prior to the incident for almost a half an hour, walking and wandering around the hotel area before he committed this act.

So, you know, do I think it was planned? Yes, I do. Just in the mere fact that he knew what time the victim was going to be walking by, he knew what hotel this conference was going to be in.

JESSICA TISCH, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: We had to go through lots of video evidence to get that one money shot of him with the mask down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PROKUPECZ: And, Jake, the chief there, telling me that a times detectives are literally sitting, sitting in front of monitors, watching video for hours and hours sometimes up to eight hours for just an eight second clip.

And that's how painstaking some of this work has been for these detectives to just try and figure out where this suspect went, where he was before. And they have gathered a lot of evidence, and certainly the key for them now is trying to find him.

TAPPER: Shimon, what did they tell you about how close they are to naming the suspect?

So they're running through -- in talking to different officials here and talking to the investigators, they are running through different names. They are getting a lot of tips. Some of them are serious. Some of them are not so serious. But that is one of the things that they are working through.

They are also going through the bus manifesto to figure out if there are any names that they could glean from that, to try and figure out who this person is.

TAPPER: What's the latest on the search for his backpack, which is I guess suspected to have been left in Central Park?

PROKUPECZ: Yeah and that's based on, they believe based on video that they have obtained. They don't see him with the backpack leaving Central Park. So they believe somewhere in Central Park he got rid of it. They said that today, just as we were doing this interview with them a short time ago, they had investigators and police officers back out in Central Park.

They have drones up across Central Park trying to find this backpack. It's a really, really important key piece of evidence for them because it links him. It could be a key part of this that links this individual to the crime also. Obviously, they're very concerned about what might be inside the bag. You know, they have not been able to find the gun that was used in this case. So that obviously is something that they will want to find as well. So they said they're going to keep searching. But for now, they're asking for people all across the country to keep their eyes out.

They see this guy to call 911 because there is a really desperate rush now for them to try and identify him.

TAPPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz in New York, thanks so much. Let's bring in CNN chief law enforcement analyst John Miller, who also served as deputy commissioner of intelligence and counterterrorism of the New York City Police Department.

[16:05:07]

We also have with us, Tom Verni, a retired NYPD detective.

John, the NYPD says the suspect got in a cab, went to the Port Authority bus terminal, went in the building, and then they didn't see him come out. Just generally speaking, I would suggest -- suspect that means he got on a bus somewhere. Theoretically, he could be anywhere.

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: Well, he could be. And that is why you're seeing what were seeing this afternoon, which is Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch, Chief of Detectives Joe Kenny out there doing interviews because what they're trying to do is shift the focus from -- if you saw him in New York, if you think you know who he is, you know, contact us to look, we know he was in New York from the 24th of November until he left the day of the shooting.

And so if you recognize him and you're anywhere in the country, you know, look at this face. Do you know this person? And by the way, if you're a close part of their world were they gone from your town, from you know, just before November 24th through just, you know, this week that would be another clue that its a person of interest.

So they're trying to stir the pot and widen the aperture to get more calls from more places on the general leaning that he's not from here. TAPPER: And, Tom, there are a lot of -- a lot of cameras in Port

Authority. How likely is it that he was able to get on a bus without one of those cameras catching him, and revealing which bus he got on?

TOM VERNI, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE: Yeah. Well, we had -- it's interesting because we had actually talked about this yesterday. I think it was either on your show or with Abby last night, and I suggested I said, you know, if the guy took a bus up here from Atlanta, what's to say he wouldn't just have a round trip ticket and go right back down.

So, you know, the fact of him going to the Port Authority bus terminal seems completely plausible that he would go there with the assumption that he had a round trip ticket or a ticket to go somewhere else, and to have his face plastered in as many places as possible and as John just alluded to, you know which -- which is a great point, you know think about for those who are watching this whole thing unfold of someone you know, that hasn't been around for the last couple of weeks, you know, had some sort of an issue with the UnitedHealthcare or maybe the CEO, you know specifically and maybe had access to weapons.

You know, once you start to piece together all these different pieces of the puzzle and you get a good look at this guys face, I mean, how many people could there be that, that, that sort of fit this match, right? So someone out there I'm sure knows who this person is. You just have to try to connect all these dots together and figure out who it is and where they are.

TAPPER: So, John, the shooting took place two days ago. A little over two days ago, and NYPD acknowledges that there's a ton of evidence, but they also say they don't have a name yet. Are you surprised that they say they don't have a name yet?

MILLER: I am not surprised because this is the kind of case and I've been in cases similar to this one involving serial killers, involving serial bombers where you could solve the case because three lucky things happen in rapid succession that throw things into high gear and you finish it off on, you know, in three days. There are other versions of that where that luck doesn't come through, and then its just painstaking detail work and it can be three days, three months, just you know, it can go on.

So here is the X factor -- today, the NYPD delivered the evidence from the people you're looking at the screen right now. The NYPD crime scene unit, they took the swabs of DNA from the bottle that they believe he drank out of which would be a really good chance at getting a DNA sample from that from the phone, which he handled, including where a print was left and they delivered those samples to the office of the medical examiner. The medical examiner will extract those, and they will get the DNA down to basically a chart which they can put into CODIS, the national database.

If his DNA is in there, that will help put a name and a story to this person if its in there with an identity or if the DNA is in there because it was found at another crime it may not come with a name, but it's going to be a step forward whether -- whether that rings a bell down there. So this could speed up or it could be more of what they've been doing which is keep pushing that picture out, keep developing that video canvas, and keep developing the evidence in this case, until you get that break.

TAPPER: Tom, how tough is it really for somebody just to disappear after a crime like this? It -- in the movies and in TV, it's not that difficult. But what's the reality?

[16:10:04]

VERNI: Well, I would say if you were, you know, committing a crime like this in Fargo, you know where the population is very small, it'd be, you know, harder to do, right? Because there's only so many people there. In New York, it's like finding, you know, where's Waldo? You know, to disappear into the streets of New York or into Central Park and then jump into the subway could be in any, anywhere in the five boroughs within a matter of minutes.

So it's very difficult unless there are officers literally around the corner and they could, you know, and they saw what happened or gave immediate chase. You know, once this guy fled and was able to make it into the park and subsequently to wherever else he went, that that made it very difficult.

However, you know because this is New York City, and they are in the midst of retrieving and reviewing tons of video footage. That's how were able, again, to connect these dots, right, to just go and work our way. Even backwards to see where he came from. And that's where they wound up at the hostel and then got this, this photo of him.

So, it's -- you know and just a quick point that I know there's a rush to, to want to catch this guy, right and, and I and I totally get that and there's a sense of urgency and there should be. This -- this individual is armed, potentially armed and dangerous. We already know he's dangerous.

So but these things don't get settled in 43 minutes without commercials, like on TV. You know, these investigations as John had mentioned are painstaking in trying to piece together all these different pieces of -- pieces of evidence to figure out who were looking for and where they are. And then bring them to finally bring them into justice.

TAPPER: Tom, John, thanks to both of you. Police just moments ago told CNN that those photos from the hospital showing the suspect with his mask down is what they call a money shot, that took hours to find.

My next guest says the suspect understood New York's wired web of surveillance cameras and was pretty good at avoiding it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:15:57]

TAPPER: And we continue to follow the breaking news, the NYPD commissioner in an interview with CNN Shimon Prokupecz says the suspect in the shocking killing of the UnitedHealthcare CEO is likely no longer in New York City, a revelation after a review of additional surveillance images that showed the suspect eventually made it to the northern Port Authority bus terminal in Manhattan after the shooting.

The NYPD chief of detectives also revealing why investigators believe the killing was planned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNY: We have him on video prior to the incident for almost a half an hour, walking and wandering around the hotel area before he committed this act.

So, you know, do I think it was planned? Yes, I do. Just in the mere fact that he knew what time the victim was going to be walking by, he knew what hotel this conference was going to be in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Let's bring in the former assistant secretary of homeland security in the Obama administration, CNN senior national security analyst, Juliette Kayyem.

Juliette, you wrote an article in "The Atlantic" magazine titled the UnitedHealthcare gunman understands the surveillance state, in which you write, quote, if you can't beat surveillance overwhelm it, intentionally or not, the killer has underscored the flaw in. If you see something, say something and approach that floods the system with too much information.

Why do you think too much information is a problem here?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: So we spent the last sort of 2 or 3 days talking about what the police are doing, and I wanted to address the question, what did the killer do to make it possible that we're still talking about a massive manhunt three days after a brazen murder in early morning sunlight in the most surveyed city in this country. And what -- what it was clear to me then in examining both what the police have told us and in our reporting, is, is both before, during and after. The killer was keenly aware of -- of how he might be surveyed and adapted to it accordingly. It's not only how we got to New York City or the masking -- the silencer, for example, wasn't done because he wanted to hide the murder. He -- it's happening in on the street.

It was so that passersby did not recognize that there was a shooting going by. And we've seen that in the videos where -- where bystanders just seem to stand there. In the money shot as, as Commissioner Tisch noticed, a number of senior law enforcement agents told "The New York Times" that even in that instance, it looks like he's camera savvy in the sense that the way that he is even sort of hiding his face, that they cannot seem to get a match.

So it seemed to me that, you know, the more technology we have, the more savvy murderers like this may be -- may become to eluding it. TAPPER: So if you think he's savvy in terms of his understanding of

the surveillance state, what does that tell you about who he might be?

KAYYEM: Yeah. So, I mean, look like everyone this was I believe that he was clearly motivated and a planned killing. I'm not convinced about the motivation. And I just say out loud, people are pretty disgusting to view this as an opportunity to have a long discussion about health care at this stage. For all I know, those -- those words on the bullets were also a decoy.

What -- what I do know in terms of both what he did and what the reaction is that the system now and our previous panel said so is really painstakingly spending time, if not overwhelmed by the amount of images and tips that are coming in. So he seemed very aware that the system could get overwhelmed. He only needed time. He only needed time to get out of the state.

Now he could be anywhere else. And so I just wanted to try to explore that question, not -- not to blame the police, to say here's the best police department in the United States, in the most surveyed city in the United States.

[16:20:03]

And we're entering day three.

This is a different kind of murder. And it's a different kind of exit by this murder.

TAPPER: The chief of detectives for the NYPD says that the department is not using artificial intelligence to sift through the mountains of video evidence. Is the A.I. technology not at that phase yet? Not at that stage where it could be used in such a way?

KAYYEM: I think that's right. I mean, we've always been concerned in safety and in private safety and security. The facial recognition -- recognition is not ideal. It is not perfect matches. It can miss things because it's looking it -- you have to tell it what its looking for and sometimes you don't know.

And it's that human expertise that human touch that is really important, that takes a lot of time. And that's what you're seeing with the New York police department. This is not at all me saying they should hurry up. It is literally that that is what's happening is you have a murderer who is evading the surveillance that was put in place to minimize harms and murders. And he's doing so in a way that shows the sophistication of and his knowledge about the surveillance state.

TAPPER: Juliette Kayyem, thanks so much.

Also breaking this afternoon, a major update in the Daniel Penny case. He, of course, is the former U.S. Marine charged with the New York City subway chokehold death of Jordan Neely.

Let's go straight now to CNN's Gloria Pazmino outside the courthouse in New York. A jury has twice said they're deadlocked over one of the charges.

Gloria, tell us more.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, the judge in this case agreed, just a short while ago to dismiss the top charge in this case, Jake, and the simplest definition of what that means is that Daniel Penny in the span of a day has gone from facing 15 years in prison if convicted of the top charge to now facing a maximum of four years, if convicted on the second charge, criminally negligent homicide.

As you said the jury said they were hung twice throughout today while -- while the judge in the case sent them back to deliberate, they still came back, asked for more legal definitions, said we cannot get to a deal. That's when the prosecution began to say we are willing to dismiss the first charge. But the defense has fought this at every turn. They have said that allowing the first charge to be dismissed and telling this jury that they have to deliberate on the second charge is essentially a coercive instruction to this jury.

So, they have motioned for a mistrial, but the judge has not approved that motion as of yet. He sent the jury home for the day, but they are going to be back here on Monday morning to continue to deliberate on that second charge.

But for now, Daniel Penny now only looking at a maximum of four years in prison if he is convicted on that second charge -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Gloria Pazmino in Manhattan, thank you so much. We're going to be monitoring that case.

Plus, the New York City manhunt as brand new information continues to come in. We're also following the Trump transition, of course. What Pete Hegseth starting his FBI background check might mean for his fight to be confirmed as secretary of defense.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:27:09]

TAPPER: We continue to follow the breaking news out of New York City.

The police commissioner there says they are currently processing a tremendous amount of evidence as the city continues to hunt for the suspect who killed UnitedHealthcare CEO, Brian Thompson. We're going to bring you more on that.

But first, in our politics lead, President-elect Donald Trump and Vice President-elect J.D. Vance today, both publicly standing by Pete Hegseth to lead the Defense Department as Hegseth works to win over support from Republican senators on Capitol Hill. The former "Fox and Friends" weekend co-host has taken another step to answer questions around accusations of sexual misconduct and drinking, allegations that he denies. Hegseth is now officially undergoing a background investigation by the

FBI.

Here's Democratic Senator from Oregon Jeff Merkley on Hegseth submitting to an FBI background check.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JEFF MERKLEY (D-OR): It indicates that the gears are turning, going forward, that there's -- that he's not yet been completely derailed. But I think were going to continue to have anxiety here on Capitol Hill, on both sides of the aisle.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's Evan Perez joins us now.

Evan, explain how these FBI background checks are conducted. With whom will the FBI speak? What are they going to be asking?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, this is a very intrusive process. I talked to someone who has done them before, and they compared it to a colorectal examination while awake. I mean, this is very, very in-depth. And it goes all the way back to someone's to -- in the case of Hegseth or someone who's not been in government all the way back to their 18th birthday, the FBI investigators will be talking to previous employers people that they worked with all the way back to. They were to age 18.

And part of the issue there is to try to get to -- to talk to people who know these, these applicants, people like Hegseth, people who are going to be filling these thousands of government jobs that Donald Trump wants to fill. Obviously, as part of his -- his incoming administration.

We're told that this is an investigation that can take as many as 60 interviews, some -- some of them take 10 to 14 days to conduct and all of this obviously is done by the FBI. They produce these reports and it's very important to underscore this, that all of this goes back to the White House and the White House is the one that adjudicates it. That makes the decision whether someone essentially has passed the background check.

I think there's a lot of misunderstanding that the FBI is rejecting people. That's not the case.

In this case, Jake, one of the questions for Pete Hegseth, of course, when they sit down with him, will be to go over all of these allegations that have dominated the news. Its unclear whether the FBI will be able to go talk to the woman who made those allegations against him back in California but obviously, those are among the things that they will that they will look at as part of this checking, which includes by the way, any credit issues, any tax liens anything in the criminal system that that the FBI might be able to find -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Evan Perez, thanks so much.

Let's jump right in with Tom Dupree, the former deputy assistant attorney general at the U.S. Justice Department during the George W. Bush administration.

Also with us, Nancy Erika Smith, a lawyer who works on cases involving workplace harassment.

One of the allegations dogging Hegseth's nomination is from when a woman accused Hegseth of a sexual assault or a rape in a hotel room back in 2017, which he denies. Police investigated they did not file charges.

Hegseth's attorney told CNN's Kaitlan Collins that the accuser is no longer bound by the settlement agreement, the NDA, and she's free to speak out.

Take a listen to what Parlatore said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM PARLATORE, ATTORNEY FOR PETE HEGSETH: However, if she doesn't tell the truth, if she repeats these false statements, then she will be subject to a defamation lawsuit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So I don't understand, is that actually a green light for her to tell her version of her story, Nancy or no?

NANCY ERIKA SMITH, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY, SMITH MULLIN: Well, it sounds like a threat to me. It actually sounds like witness tampering, trying to intimidate a potential witness in front of Congress which is specifically against both state and federal laws. We know that Parlatore lied to "The New Yorker" and claimed that this same victim was found guilty of lying about a previous rape allegation and when "The New Yorker" contacted the police, they completely denied it.

It sounds like this is following the Trump in "The Apprentice". We learned how Trump learned deny, deny, deny, attack, attack, attack. Well, this is a real attack on a woman that he paid money to. He won't tell us how much money he paid, but this is a guy who wants to lead the United States military, the largest military in the world, and he claims that he already succumbed to extortion. That's pretty scary.

TAPPER: Tom, as the FBI reaches out to people currently anonymous, launching these allegations about drinking or whatever those potential witnesses, if they talk to the FBI, will be legally bound to tell the truth. I mean, lying to the FBI is a crime.

TOM DUPREE, FORMER PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY, GW BUSH ADMIN: It sure is, Jake. And look I have read hundreds of these FBI background investigations in my role at the Justice Department. I have gone through FBI background check, my own. And these are exceedingly thorough investigations. Evan's reporting was spot on. They go back and look at things you did

in college, things that you did decades ago. They really boil the ocean particularly when it comes to a senior official such as the secretary of defense and I think actually, the fact that they are now going to go through the traditional FBI background check is good for both sides, to be honest I think from the pro-Hegseth side, it's good because these questions are going to be answered by the professionals. All these allegations will be examined by FBI agents and not litigated in the press.

I think for opponents of Hegseth, I think they have to be heartened that the FBI is going to follow up with these people and really get to the bottom of the things that we've been reading about in the newspapers, whether these allegations are true.

TAPPER: Well, let me ask you just to piggyback on what Nancy said by Parlatore and Hegseth's own description, they say they paid money to this woman, even though he didn't do anything, but that does suggest perhaps a certain susceptibility to extortion or blackmail. Do you agree with that?

DUPREE: Well, I'm not sure I would go so far as to say it makes them susceptible to blackmail or extortion, at least the way that Hegseth has explained it is. He said he didn't want to lose his job at Fox News if this all came to light, and that's why he paid it off. I'm not sure I would take that and then say, well, therefore he's vulnerable to blackmail.

But look, I will say that the fact that they are threatening defamation claims against the accuser in my opinion, is not well- taken. Lawyers love to threaten defamation suits. They are not as enamored of actually filing them. And that's because the number one defense to a defamation claim is truth.

And so regardless, you are going to have these allegations litigated in a courtroom as to what happened in that hotel in California, I cant imagine that something that Hegseth or his supporters would want to see happen. So I do think this defamation threat at the end of the day is an empty one.

TAPPER: So, Nancy, let me ask you, there's also this complaint against Hegseth by a former employee at that veterans organization alleging misconduct by him. And do you think that that information, that accusation should be made public or are there concerns that that could thrust the person who spoke up then, who's anonymous there into a very public battle?

SMITH: Well, it was more than one person. The New Yorker article is very clear that even the author of the New Yorker article spoke to numerous whistleblowers and they -- the whistleblowers who did speak, provided information that other whistleblowers brought forth about Hegseth's excessive drinking and his harassment of women.

So this is somebody who's supposed to lead the military and luckily, the FBI is going to go back to age 18. They'll find that Mr. Hegseth, when he was at Princeton wrote a commentary that it can't be rape if you have sex with an unconscious woman and that's exactly what he's accused of.

So I think taking all of this together, its actually shocking that we're even having this conversation.

[16:35:03]

All of these people are lying about Mr. Hegseth for some reason. They were lying in 2017 when they didn't -- she couldn't have known that he was going to be nominated. What's the -- what do they get out of it?

And if -- and if his claim is what they get out of it is money, and his own lawyer calls it extortion, then he's admitting that he's available for extortion, and they won't tell us how much he paid. Everything should be on the table with this man, but it's already -- his own mother calls him an abuser of women. How can he lead the military?

It's unbelievable we're even having this conversation.

TAPPER: Yes. We should note that the mother apologized and went on Fox News the other day to say she didn't mean it. And she stands by her son. But I take your point.

Nancy Erika Smith, Tom Dupree, thank you.

And a reminder that Pete Hegseth has denied all of these allegations.

Coming up next, a CNN exclusive interview with a rebel leader in charge of an uprising that caught even many experts completely off guard.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:40:15]

TAPPER: We continue to follow the fast breaking updates from New York. A manhunt intensifying and expanding as investigators say they now have reason to believe the person of interest has left New York City. We'll have more from police in a moment.

But first, in our world, lead the mother of American journalist Austin Tice says the family has new information indicating that he is alive and being treated well. They met with the Biden administration just a few hours ago.

He disappeared from a checkpoint west of Damascus, Syria, about 12 years ago. He surfaced in this hostage video back in 2012. His family is now demanding that the Biden administration, quote, bring him home. And they took their concerns directly to Jake Sullivan, Biden's national security advisor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JACOB TICE, BROTHER OF AUSTIN TICE, JOURNALIST DETAINED IN SYRIA: I asked him directly for a commitment for President Biden in a pursuant to his prior commitments and his sentiments that he has explicitly expressed about Austin to reach out directly to Assad on Austin's behalf.

I asked for that commitment explicitly and directly, and I did not receive it. I heard that that -- that Jake Sullivan was not in a position to make that commitment. He did not say yes, and I found that to be a striking response.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The family has tried to work with the Obama and Biden administrations, as well as the first Trump administration to secure Austin's release.

The Syrian government has denied it is holding any American citizens hostage.

Rebel forces in Syria, meanwhile are taking control of more territory in the northern part of the country as they move closer to claiming the city of Homs. CNN obtained video showing armed fighters marching down a road by the Nasib border crossing near Jordan after wrestling it away from the government.

The advance is being led by Abu Mohammad al-Jolani, a former member of al Qaeda, who has been designated by the U.S. as a terrorist organization, Hayat Tahrir al-Sham or HTS, has a $10 million bounty.

CNN international correspondent Jomana Karadsheh spoke exclusively to al-Jolani about his ties with al Qaeda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOMANA KARADSHEH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Once an al Qaeda leader, your group has had affiliations with al-Qaeda with ISIS and now you are projecting this image of a moderate leader and a moderate group.

What is HTS right now?

ABU MOHAMMAD AL-JOLANI, LEADER OF HTS: Hayat Tahrir al-Sham is one of the factions in the region, just like all the others. Now, we're talking about a larger project. We're talking about building Syria. Hayat Tahrir al-Sham is merely one detail of this dialogue, and it may dissolve at any time. It's not an end in itself, but a means to perform a task confronting this regime.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Jomana Karadsheh is on the ground in Aleppo with rare access to the HTS group and she brings us this look at the aftermath of the rebel offensive.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KARADSHEH: This is the Bassel roundabout, named after the deceased brother of the Syrian president, Bashar al-Assad, and one of the first things that people did when rebel forces took over the city of Aleppo was toppled the statue of Bassel, a symbol of the Assad regime. This is an area where there were fierce battles with regime forces and

since then, in the past few days, there's been an airstrike that killed many people. You can still see the aftermath of that, the blood on the floor here.

And speaking to people in the city, this is what they fear. They fear that there will be more Russian and Syrian regime airstrikes that they will be back for the city of Aleppo.

Speaking to people here, you get this sense of joy and relief to see the regime of Bashar al-Assad gone but also there's this apprehension and anxiety, fear of what might be coming. People don't really know what to expect from these rebel forces who've taken over Aleppo.

But most people that we've spoken to say that their biggest fear is what the regime and its allies are going to do a real fear of going back to the bloody days of the civil war in Syria.

Jomana Karadsheh, CNN, Aleppo, Syria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: Joining us now to discuss, Lieutenant General Mark Hertling.

General Hertling, what do you make of this rebel offensive happening in Syria?

LT. GEN. MARK HERTLING (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, we've got to be careful about calling it a rebel offensive, even though it is Jake, because those rebels as Jomana just mentioned, have some really unique and nefarious ties to al Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood and everything. One of the things I learned about this area in terms of fighting in the Middle East, it is always about history and religion.

[16:45:06]

She was standing on a on a square that had that toppled statue that that dating back to the 1960s, the 1980s, and the religious disputes between the -- the Sunnis and the Alawites and the Shia just continue to just fester and cause these kind of concerns this -- the towns that were talking about, that the fighting is taking place in Hama as an example, in 1982, Assad killed allegedly 10,000 to 40,000 people, most of them non-fighters.

The revolutions occurred in that area and the people, as Jomana just said are fearful of whenever they feel like there is a more representation or they have a new government that doesn't -- isn't run by one of the Assad family that they can rise up but at the same time, they're worried about what may happen tomorrow in terms -- tomorrow in terms of barrel bombing or the atrocities that the Assad regime has executed over the last several decades.

So it is just a back and forth between various gangs. They have names for themselves, like HTS or some of the other Muslim Brotherhood groupings. But it's very difficult to separate the good from the bad in this area. And that's the kind of thing were talking about, is these rebels go down the M5 highway, potentially even into Damascus and if they make a right turn and head toward the coast, they threaten the naval -- the Russian naval bases at Tartus. So this is a very dangerous area. And what might happen next is very confusing to people who don't understand the history and the religion of the people that are fighting there.

TAPPER: All right. Retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Next, after more than a year after his mysterious hospitalization, actor Jamie Foxx is revealing more about what he calls a near-death experience and why he's talking about it now.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:50:59]

TAPPER: And we're back with the breaking news.

The hunt for the gunman who killed UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson in cold blood. Detectives in New York say they're testing possible DNA evidence from a water bottle and a cell phone recovered at the crime scene. Police also tell CNN that they have reason to believe the suspect left New York City shortly after the shooting. We'll have more from New York in a moment.

But first, in the pop culture lead today, a different mystery. Actor Jamie Foxx is now talking about that terrifying health scare that left him in the hospital. You might remember last year, the veteran actor suffered a mysterious medical scare, and then he disappeared. For weeks, Foxx has been silent about it ever since, only to share details in this new Netflix special.

So what happened? What went wrong?

CNN entertainment correspondent Elizabeth Wagmeister has the scoop.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAMIE FOXX, ACTOR: First of all, I want to say thank you to everybody that's prayed, man, and sent me messages.

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Jamie Foxx, speaking to his fans last year, three months after he collapsed while filming a movie in Atlanta.

FOXX: I know a lot of people were waiting, you know, or wanting to hear updates, but to be honest with you, I just didn't want you to see me like that, man.

WAGMEISTER: But now --

FOXX: What had happened was --

WAGMEISTER: Foxx is ready to tell all. In a Netflix stand up special out Tuesday.

FOXX: I'm so glad to be here.

WAGMEISTER: -- where he shares new details on his mystery hospitalization in 2023, which CNN as now learned was a near death experience.

DEMECOS CHAMBERS, ATTENDED FOXX SPECIAL: He was talking to somebody personal to him, and then he just passed out on an elevator.

WAGMEISTER: Demecos Chambers is a longtime Foxx fan. He was in the audience for the Netflix taping in Atlanta back in October, the first time Foxx has spoken about his unknown condition since this brief clip surfaced on social media last summer.

FOXX: Bad headache, asked my boy for an Advil, I was gone for 20 days.

CHAMBERS: Jamie didn't know, but actually his -- his health was declining greatly while he was in the hospital, like he was literally on the brink of death.

WAGMEISTER: Chambers says Foxx explains how one of his doctors unknowingly kept him alive playing their special song on a guitar as he was in a coma. It's the sound he woke up to weeks later.

CHAMBERS: His heart started picking up and his responses on the medical devices started increasing and his health came around. He eventually woke up, was literally due to his daughter playing a song that was kindled to them -- kindled to them both.

WAGMEISTER: Chambers says Foxx seems strong on stage, not just speaking, but singing and dancing and playing the piano. And, of course, joking that he woke up from his coma with a beard looking like Django, one of his most famous roles.

FOXX: Just like old times, baby, just like old times.

WAGMEISTER: Foxx was filming the aptly titled "Back in Action" with Cameron Diaz at the time of his medical emergency. That movie is now complete. It comes out on Netflix next month.

For chambers, though, its his up close and personal moment with Foxx that will mean the most.

CHAMBERS: I just wanted to see Jamie. I just wanted to see my -- the guy that I grew up off of perform on stage. It takes a lot to move me and that moved me.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WAGMEISTER (on camera): You know, for Jamie, this special is a really big deal, Jake. In fact, he's not doing any interviews with the press before. Of course, that's highly unusual. Usually, if you are launching a high profile project, you want to promote it. You want people to tune in. But, Jamie, really wants this to speak for itself because its the

first time that he is going to be addressing fans in this impactful way.

TAPPER: When will we find out what happened to him? And what else are we going to see in this special?

WAGMEISTER: So I can tell you that you are going to find out what that horrifying medical diagnosis was. Jamie is going to talk about that in this special and he also, I hear, is going to talk about Diddy. A lot of people have been wondering, and I hear that he will.

TAPPER: All right. Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much.

[16:55:01]

Coming up, new details in the New York manhunt. Police now say for about 30 minutes Wednesday morning, the suspect wandered around the very hotel where he shot UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson. What other new information are police revealing?

Plus, I'm also going to talk about the case with the former NYPD police chief. That's all next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

We're going to start this hour with breaking news. New York police saying the suspect in the killing of the health care CEO earlier this week could now be anywhere in the United States. Top NYPD -- NYPD officials told CNN this afternoon that they have reason to believe the alleged gunman has left New York City because investigators have video footage showing him entering port authority bus terminal.