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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Judge Denies Bail As Suspect Fights Extradition; Possible Use Of A "Ghost Gun" In CEO Killing Spurs New Concerns; GOP Senators Appearing To Fall In Line On Key Trump Picks; CEO Murder Suspects Attorney Speaks About Case; How Testing Milk Could Help Track Bird Flu. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired December 10, 2024 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:00:14]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we start with our breaking news. In moments, we're going to hear again from the defense attorney for 26-year-old Luigi Mangione, the suspect in the deadly shooting or assassination of the United Healthcare CEO. Thomas Dickey, the attorney explaining why he is fighting Mangione's extradition from Pennsylvania to New York.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

THOMAS DICKEY, SUSPECT'S ATTORNEY: Well, what happened today is he could have -- he -- there was a extradition proceeding. We did not, N- O-T, add that on there. OK. Because if you're reporting that earlier that we did, that did not happen. We did not waive extradition. We were contesting extradition. We are going to fight this along the rules and with the constitutional protections that my client has and that's what we're going to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Just moments before, we saw Mangione leaving court where he was denied bail. Inside the courtroom, prosecutors detailed a list of potential evidence found on Mangione when he was arrested, they say including $8,000, $2,000 in foreign currency, a passport and multiple masks. But the most dramatic moment came before the hearing as it Mangione was being escorted into court by the police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUIGI MANGIONE, SUSPECT ON KILLING UNITEDHEALTHCARE CEO: It's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people. It's lived experience.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It's completely out of touch and an insult to the intelligence of the American people. It's lived experience he said. We're going to bring you that news conference live. But let's start with CNN's Brynn Gingras who's in New York City.

And Brynn, we have learned so many new details about the suspect, his attorney and this case. In just the last few minutes, bring us up to speed.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. So I can tell you that Luigi Mangione left that courthouse a lot calmer than what you just showed your viewers when headed in, when he was screaming things. A different scenario when he was leaving that court hearing. He was also quiet during the beginning of this court hearing, only mentioning -- or only answering rather twice to the judge when asked questions. He said I do when he was sworn in and yes, sir, answering the judge when he asked if he understood his right to contest this extradition.

I can tell you that he was wearing an orange jumpsuit. Our reporter inside the courtroom said he had a disheveled collar. He was shackled at his hands and at his wrists.

And his attorney who you just mentioned, we have since learned, Jake, just in the last few minutes that he has been hired to represent Luigi Mangione that this was not a court appointed defense attorney. And during this hearing, he, as you just heard him say, fought this extradition. He also was trying to fight, basically trying to get Mangione out on some sort of bail, saying he's got no criminal history. He can be, you know, tracked by GPS if necessary, to which the district attorney there in Blair County basically lined some of the evidence that they have against him, including the fact that he was found with $8,000 cash, $2,000 of foreign currency, a passport, said that he was evading police for several days, was transient.

So, of course, as we know, he is still behind bars. The judge denying that request for some sort of bail and he is allowed to fight this extradition. That is his right. What we understand now happens is that his attorney, that defense attorney, has 14 days to file a writ of habeas corpus. This basically allows him to say, you know what, this is not the guy that needs to be extradited.

Of course it's a stretch, but it does basically extend these proceedings. And it also, if you think about it, gives the NYPD, gives investigators more time to sort of collect evidence, build their case against them, and then they will all be back in court to discuss next steps in this court process. Jake.

TAPPER: And Brynn, what more are we learning about the suspect, Luigi Mangione?

GINGRAS: Yes, so we are learning -- the "New York Times" is actually reporting that his family grew very concerned about him at one point actually filing a basic a missing person's report on November 18th with San Francisco. Now, we understand from the NYPD that he does have some ties to San Francisco. We're not quite sure of when that happened, but that is a key note. It also tracks with what we've been learning from his social media footprint is that, you know, he was very active on social media for quite a while, you know, posting pictures of friends, his travels, and then sort of went dark where people were reaching out to him, wondering if he was OK. One person asked, are you going to honor your RSVP to my wedding?

So it did seem that he went dark for a while. And it does appear the "New York Times" reporting that his family also very concerned, so much so that they filed this missing person's report last month, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Brynn Gingras, thanks so much.

Let's bring in CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller, former NYPD Chief of Department Ken Corey, and Elie Honig, former Assistant U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Elie, let me start with you. What do you make of the fact that this defense attorney was hired, not court appointed? And also, what do you make of what we just heard from him?

[17:05:00]

ELIE HONIG, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF N.Y.: Well, Jake, it means that the family has enough money to pay for a private attorney, and they've elected to do that.

Regarding the extradition, it's really important to understand this is a bureaucratic headache for prosecutors, but it's not going to actually interfere with the substantive prosecution in any way. What's likely to happen now is a few weeks from now, we will have a hearing. There will be a hearing in Pennsylvania State court. All the prosecutors have to show, basically, is this person sitting here in the courtroom is the same guy we've charged. It is Luigi Mangione.

It's a very low burden of proof. It's a hurdle prosecutors have to jump over. But once they do, he will wind up back here in New York to face murder charges.

TAPPER: So, Elie, why even do it?

HONIG: Well, A, you have a constitutional right to do it as a defendant, and B, sometimes you want to buy time as a defense lawyer, you want time to investigate. And sometimes your job as a lawyer is just to put the government and prosecutors through their paces.

TAPPER: Ken, what is the NYPD doing as this process plays out in Pennsylvania?

KEN COREY, FORMER NYPD CHIEF OF DEPARTMENT: Yes, so they're going to continue to do what they've been doing. Right? The arrest never ends the investigation. The arrest is really only the first piece of it. There is so much that has to be done here to get this case ready for a successful prosecution by the New York District Attorney.

They are still out there collecting video. That video is all going to be scoured and ultimately stitched together into a timeline to try to show as much of the 225 or so hours that he spent in New York City as possible, to really be able to almost show the jury a movie of his movements, to successfully conclude that this is, in fact, the same person who's responsible for this crime. At the same time, they're continuing to test the forensic evidence. They're going to start to get DNA results back. At some point, they will get a DNA sample from Mangione to do a direct comparison to any DNA that was recovered off that water bottle at the crime scene or the KIND bar wrapper at the crime scene.

And, of course, they're trying to match the ballistics on the firearm that was in his possession to any slugs that were recovered and the spent shells recovered from the scene.

TAPPER: John, what are you hearing from your sources today as this investigation plays out with Mangione in custody in Pennsylvania?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: You know, they're continuing to try, as Ken kind of indicated, to backtrack. There are gaps in the story. Of course there's gaps in that movie they're trying to make, which would really ideally show every place he went of every minute of every day in New York City. But there are larger gaps in the story before, which is when he went off the grid, where did he go off the grid? San Francisco seems to be a pointer there.

What, if anything, did that have to do with his, what appears to be, self radicalization? So they're working on that. But they have core responsibilities that hinge on this extradition, which is Pennsylvania has the gun, they have the body has the fingerprints in terms of the prisoner, also the DNA. So they may have to get warrants to travel to Pennsylvania to obtain their own fingerprints, their own DNA, to test fire that gun.

Pennsylvania can't simply hand all that over to them because if this process drags out and the judge, you know, says, produce the evidence of your crime, they can't say we lent it out. So there's a little codependency going on there. But it's all going to work because they've done this before.

TAPPER: Elie, what do prosecutors in New York have to show in this case? And why charge the suspect with second degree murder instead of first degree murder?

HONIG: Yes, Jake, a lot of people are asking that exact question. So under New York state law, first degree murder only applies to very narrow circumstances. For example, were the victim is a judge, a police officer, a first responder, or were the murder involves a murder for hire, or were there's torture involved in the case, or were the murders committed in the course of some other crime, like a robbery or a terroristic act. And as far as we know, none of those features apply to the murder so far. And so that's why it seems that New York prosecutors have charged a second degree murder.

What they will have to show is that Mr. Mangione intentionally killed his victim here. And if that's proven, he's looking at a mandatory minimum of 15 years behind bars, no parole. And he could behind bars for as long as life, depending if and when he ever does get parole.

TAPPER: And Ken, one of the reasons why this story is significant and we're giving so much attention to it, is because of the response we're hearing from many members of the public. An NYPD intelligence report obtained by CNN notes the positive online reaction to this murder of this United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson. The intel report says, quote, "Based on observed initial online reactions to the shooting, including celebrations of the killing of a health insurance executive, there is a risk that a wide range of extremists may view Mangione as a martyr and an example to follow," unquote. Have you seen this type of response for a suspected murderer before?

[17:10:03]

COREY: Yes, no, certainly not in these circumstances. Right? And as was indicated, the outpouring of support is really unusual and very shocking. Right? This isn't somebody who maybe is going to leverage a claim of self-defense, you know, where you could see that there was some sympathy involved or, you know, somebody who was being victimized, maybe with, you know, a long history as a domestic violence victim and you could see people sympathizing with the offender there slash victim. You know, this is very, very different.

And we saw that outpouring of support on social media. We see, you know, comments, really backlash against the McDonald's employee who called in the tip in the first place. So, you know, I think that there is a fear. Anytime you have a really notorious crime that gets this level of public attention, you're always worried about is this going to inspire somebody else to kind of do something similar.

TAPPER: Thanks you all. We're standing by for that live news conference from the attorney for shooting suspect Luigi Mangione. We're going to bring that to you live as soon as it happens.

And what exactly is a ghost gun? That's the type of weapon allegedly found on the murder suspect. And how easy is it to make one of these guns at home? We're going to take a closer look at that next.

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[17:15:02]

TAPPER: And we're back with our breaking news coverage. Any moment, we are expecting a news conference from the attorney who is representing the CEO shooting suspect, Luigi Mangione. We're going to bring you that live as soon as it begins.

As we learn more about the suspect in the murder of the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, there is one alarming detail we want to unpack right now, and that's the apparent use by Mr. Mangione of a ghost. That's a weapon that's untraceable, one that can even be made, manufactured at home. We turn to CNN's Josh Campbell now, who's a former FBI agent.

Josh, help us understand exactly what a ghost gun is. How are they made?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you mentioned, Jake, they're virtually untraceable. These are essentially self assembled firearms. And you know, the ATF says that they've collected tens of thousands of these so called ghost guns used in crimes in the last several years, including in homicides. The Supreme Court right now is currently weighing how much they can actually be regulated.

They come in forms. In one instance, you can go online and buy what's called a gun kit, where someone will actually send you the parts that you then assemble and you can make that into a fully functioning gun. There have also been times, including as is alleged here with this shooter, that there was some type of 3D printing that was involved as well, and that is using a home 3D printer to print specific components of that firearm, essentially making a fully functional weapon.

Of course, the big fear that I hear from security professionals is if someone were to make a firearm that had no metal parts at all, it could get that through metal detectors at airports or other public venues.

And then there are two big issues here with the ghost guns, Jake. The first is that they don't require background checks. You could buy these kits online. You don't have to go through a background check even if you have a criminal history. And second, perhaps most important, no serial number in any investigation, including this one involving the shooting of the CEO.

Serial numbers can help match a particular gun to a location, with these ghost guns, they don't have serial numbers. So that makes it very difficult. Jake, bottom line, these ghost guns are essentially invisible to police.

TAPPER: Josh, even if it was a ghost gun that was used to kill the CEO, the fact that police found it on the suspect obviously makes it a critical piece of evidence in tying him to the crime.

CAMPBELL: That's right. And again, there's the question why he still had it on him. We'll have to wait and see what we learned on that end from him. But having that critical evidence that police say is similar in nature to the one that was seen on video, that this gun -- a gunman used to shoot the CEO is going to be critical. The way they do that, and you can see here are some images, I went inside an ATF ballistics lab that they essentially take that firearm that they recovered.

They will do a test fire and recover both the bullet that comes out of the front of the gun and the shell casing that gets ejected from the side. And then they take that under a microscope. You know, these bullet shell casings, whenever they make contact with a firearm, it's almost like a fingerprint leaving that unique marking. And what they'll do is do a side by side comparison and look to see where the shell casings recovered from Manhattan at the scene of that shooting. Are they similar in nature to the test rounds that they will eventually fire from that gun that was recovered?

If so, that's really damning evidence.

TAPPER: All right, Josh Campbell, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

We're standing by for that live news conference from the attorney for the shooting suspect, Luigi Mangione. We're going to bring that to you live as soon as it begins. Plus, CNN is going to go inside the lavish palace of Bashar al-Assad, that brutal Syrian leader who fled his country as rebels advance. The stunning things we found inside ahead.

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[17:22:49]

TAPPER: Topping our world lead, horrifying accounts from serious prisons despite hopes that most of the people who disappeared during the brutal regime of Bashar al-Assad would be found. As of now, only a few thousand have been located, according to an official for the volunteer group the White Helmets, who says some prisoners have even forgotten their names while others have, quote, "lost their minds," unquote. CNN's Clarissa Ward takes us now inside Bashar al-Assad's palace, where the ornate halls and luxury cars serve as quite the stark contrast to the years of oppression and brutality and poverty inflicted by Bashar al-Assad on the subjects of his regime.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Outside the palace of Bashar al-Assad, Syrians gather to pose for photographs and celebrate the removal of its despised former owner. The public is not allowed inside the sprawling compound yet, where the courtyards stretch longer than a city block.

WARD: This is the driveway into Bashar al-Assad's palace, and you can see how enormous it is. There are still casings all over the ground from rebel celebratory gunfire as they swept in here and took control.

WARD (voice-over): At the entrance, an Iranian flag unceremoniously laid out for people to step on. Iran, one of the regime's staunchest allies. Where once foreign dignitaries roamed the halls, now rebel fighters have the run of the place.

WARD: You can see blankets on the sofas in here. It looks like this is where the rebels are sleeping. And in fact, over here, you can see they've got some kind of a makeshift dining area going. Some of their weapons here, a couple of rifles on this sofa.

So this gentleman here who is with the rebels has just ask that I put on my scarf. It's the first time since we've been here that anyone has asked me to cover my hair.

[17:25:00]

He says that he's from Idlib and that this is the first time he's seeing the palace.

WARD (voice-over): We feel that the injustice will break down one day and justice must win. This is the idea of justice in our religion, he says. In Islam, it is a must and a promise of Allah that Islam is victorious.

After nearly 14 years of a vicious civil war, to stand in this palace is a proud moment, capping off a seismic victory.

WARD: So the rebels here want to stress, they tell us, that it was not their group that ransacked this office when they first swept in. You could see, actually, some of the graffiti here that those first rebels wrote on the window. It says, Allah cursed Hafiz his soul. Hafiz al- Assad being the father of Bashar.

When you look at these ceilings and these chandeliers, the marble, the detail, this is the kind of opulence, this lavish lifestyle that engendered so much resentment from so many Syrians who have been struggling to survive for decades while the Assad family lived like this.

WARD (voice-over): In a warehouse, rows and rows of luxury cars, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and classic Cadillacs. This was a dynasty that will be remembered not only for its brutality, but its deep corruption.

Below the palace in the heart of Damascus, crowds gathered in Umayyad Square. Under Assad's rule, the Syrian people were forced to worship him. Now they finally have the freedom to celebrate his demise.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WARD (on camera): And, Jake, you know, there was definitely a different feeling on the streets today. Previously, people were staying at home. They were being very cautious. They were nervous about chaos, about looting, about further violence. But really, we saw people coming out in full force in Umayyad Square celebrating.

And I should add, Jake, it was people of all different ages. There were Christians, there were Muslims, there were women who were covered. There were women who were uncovered. And all of them really conveying this idea to us that, yes, we don't know what the future holds. Yes, there may be some reservations about these rebel forces, but let us have this moment.

Let us celebrate this victory. Jake.

TAPPER: And Clarissa, the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, says he wants to change the face of the Middle East after the fall of Assad's regime. Israel is being accused of making land grabs in Syria and struck Syria hundreds of times. Israel says they're doing a buffer zone to keep out terrorists from the region. What are other countries saying about this?

WARD: Well, we've heard today, Jake, from Iran that weighed in, basically calling on the United Nations Security Council to lobby some kind of action against Israel. We've also heard from the Arab League accusing Israel of exploiting the instability here. And I will say, Jake, that all night we could hear, this was the most strikes that we heard last night, just a relentless stream of strikes.

And obviously for people here in Damascus and around Syria, that is further destabilizing. It is frightening. But I would just add that there are so many things happening on the ground right now, so many different things shifting, that it's certainly not the primary focus of people on the ground in Syria right now who are just looking to ensure that this next chapter in their history gets off to a good start. Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Clarissa Ward in Damascus, Syria. Thank you. And please stay safe.

Are the tides turning for one of Trump's more controversial cabinet picks? The new signs today. The Republicans are falling in line to support Pete Hegseth for Defense secretary. Stay with us.

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[17:33:20]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, Pete Hegseth is back on Capitol Hill and appears to be making some progress in his attempt to woo over Republican senators who have been publicly raising questions privately too over the possibility of his becoming the nation's next secretary of defense.

Just hours ago, Hegseth posted these images showing his meeting with Republican Senator John Boozman of Arkansas and saying, quote, great meeting this morning with Senator John Boozman. We're thankful for your time and support of counsel.

But today's most consequential meeting was with Alaska's Lisa Murkowski. She's one of the senators who has expressed concerns about the allegations against Hegseth related to drinking and to sexual assault, allegations that Hegseth firmly denies.

CNN's Manu Raju is live for us on Capitol Hill. Manu, first, let's start with the fact that Republican leader Mitch McConnell suffered a fall at the Capitol today. How is he doing? What exactly happened?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, he's back to work, but he is wearing a bandage under his left eye and also wearing a brace on his left wrist, as you can see there from the picture on your screen. He was walking out of a Republican lunch and tripped and he fell. And that's what led to some paramedics coming to his office.

They ultimately said he was fine and sustained those minor injuries. His office says he is back at work. This comes, of course, McConnell, who's 82 years old. He's a childhood survivor of polio. He walks with a slight limp and has a weak leg. So sometimes he trips and falls. It's happened more recently as of late last year. He fell, hit his head, had a concussion, broke some ribs, was out from the Senate for some time. He had a couple of episodes that became, of course, viral moments that were freezing episodes both on Capitol Hill and back home.

He did return to his leadership position. He's -- he --he acts perfectly normally in the halls of the Capitol, typically, despite all of that, although, of course, Jake, he is stepping aside from his leadership position at the end of this year of being the longest serving party leader of any party in the history of the United States Senate. Paving the way for Senator John Thune, who I asked how McConnell was doing, he told me is, quote, fine and referred questions to his office and his office says the leader is fine and back at work. [17:35:25]

TAPPER: Manu, back to Pete Hegseth's nomination to be Secretary of Defense. It appeared to have been in serious jeopardy just last week. Some individuals, observers suggest that there seems to be some momentum in his direction. Just moments ago, Hegseth said that the meeting with Senator Murkowski was, quote, excellent. You spoke with Murkowski. Is she backing him? Is she on board? Is she going to vote for him?

RAJU: She's not on board yet. At least she's not saying if she's on board. I -- she -- we had staked out her office for -- for more than an hour outside, multiple exits, Jake. And she really went to lengths to avoid cameras, avoid reporters. But we did end up catching up with her after she voted on the Senate floor. And I asked her directly if she's ready to support Pete Hegseth as the next defense secretary. She wouldn't say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN: LISA MURKOWSKI (R-AK): I had a good exchange with Mr. Hegseth.

RAJU: Are you ready to support him?

MURKOWSKI: I had a good exchange and we'll see what the process bears.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What more are you going to learn?

MURKOWSKI: Well, he's got probably at least half the Senate that he's going to visit with. He's got a process that is going to involve full vetting through the administration and then ultimately a committee.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: So the question is, Jake, does he have the votes? Some Republicans believe things are moving in his direction in large part because Senator Joni Ernst, who's viewed as a key vote who she sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee. She had a meeting with Hegseth yesterday as her second meeting came out of that, and said that she would support the process.

She has not said she would support him, but support the process. He has another key meeting tomorrow with Senator Susan Collins, another key swing vote in the Senate. That's someone to watch, too. Remember, he can only lose three Republican votes, assuming all Democrats vote against him.

But is there another vote who would come out against him? Those are all big questions as senators are grappling with these allegations of misconduct, sexual assault allegations. He denies all that. And I asked Murkowski if she brought those allegations up. If she believed his denials that he did not commit sexual assault and that he did not engage in excessive drinking and the like, she would not say ultimately that she had only would say that she had an exchange with him, was a good exchange and wouldn't say how she would vote.

TAPPER: All right, Manu, thanks so much. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill.

My panel's here to discuss. Mike, let me start with you. So Senator Ernst, there is a T.V. ad from a pro Trump group running in Iowa, her home state, targeting her for not supporting Hegseth, suggesting that she's a member of the deep state. Now, this is a woman who served in combat.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Right.

TAPPER: As survivor of sexual assault. She has serious concerns about Hegseth, understandably so. She hasn't said she's a -- she's a no.

DUBKE: Right.

TAPPER: Do you think that there is any chance that -- that kind of pressure campaign on Ernst could backfire among Republican colleagues? Or -- or -- or no, is it more she's -- she's an example to be made of?

DUBKE: Well, I don't think she's an example to be made of. I mean, she is up for reelection in 2026. So she hasn't to my knowledge. I don't think she's made the announcement one way or the other if she's going to run in 2026. But President-elect Trump told Hegseth to fight. And I think part of fighting is these outside groups that are supportive of him running ads against senators that they view as maybe not supportive.

Ultimately, is it going to back -- backfire? For some of the senators, it may. There's other -- there are other senators who are out there who are wild cards. Mitch McConnell who was mentioned, John Curtis, new senator from Utah, Todd Young from Indiana. So it may backfire.

TAPPER: All right, everyone stick around because we have some breaking news. The defense attorney for the CEO killing subject is speaking now. Let's listen in.

THOMAS DICKEY, SUSPECT'S ATTORNEY: I'm pleased with our relationship. But I think we've made a strong bond and I'm looking forward to moving forward helping them out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How would you approach?

DICKEY: I really don't want to get into that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is he saying he's innocent at this point?

DICKEY: He hasn't indicated pleas of not guilty. The only charges that we've seen thus far have been the ones here in Pennsylvania -- in Pennsylvania. And we have pled not guilty to those charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what's his state of mind?

DICKEY: I really can't get into that. That -- that's too speculative. I'm not going to get into that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sorry, I couldn't hear. You said he has said he's innocent so far? DICKEY: Yes, we -- we pled not guilty, at least to the charges in Pennsylvania. Like I said, I'm not aware of any actual charges in New York. If you're in the hearing earlier, there was a proceeding where they introduced some documents which, as I complained about, didn't have enough information for me. So we're looking forward to, you know, getting that additional information.

[17:40:05]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When -- when did that plea happen? It's not something that at least I was aware of.

DICKEY: OK. Well, hopefully again, I wasn't -- I was not at the arraignment yesterday. I hope he pled not guilty. I assumed that's what happened. But today when I entered my appearance and for the record, he's -- he's pleading not guilty to those offense.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He is -- there was -- I was out there. He did not say that he was not guilty or make that plea. So right now though, you're telling us that he is pleading not guilty.

DICKEY: That -- that is correct.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He doesn't say he's -- you are under the impression or you're trying to defend the client on the fact that he is not the shooter.

DICKEY: Listen, I haven't seen any evidence that says that he's the shooter. So that's, you know, like I said earlier and I wasn't kidding around. A couple of things, if you're going to report something, report accurately. And remember, and this is not just a small thing, the fundamental concept of American justice is a presumption of innocent. And until you're proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt. And I've seen zero evidence at this point and so I'm not even aware of what any charges.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sorry, that's just regarding the extradition request.

DICKEY: Well, The only hearing today was the extradition. So you were going to take one step at a time. It's a long process, can be a long process.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The photos that police released. The NYPD release on him.

DICKEY: I'm sorry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The photos, the NYPD release after your claim.

DICKEY: I don't have any control over what the NYPD does and if they release something, I hope I can get my hands on them. And you guys get them, send them to me. I'd appreciate.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clarify something. You pleaded, you pled for him not guilty in the state of Pennsylvania about the charges here. Can you just -- when did that happen?

DICKEY: Well, he has a hearing coming up. I believe it's the 20 something if I -- I can't recall a lot happened today. And so until -- they even had a prima facie case established yet. So they have to have a prima facie state -- prima facie case established before they can even the case can move on to the court of common police. The burden -- the burden is always on the government, thank God. And that's their burden. And they're going to have to produce some evidence and we're anxious to see it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Understanding that you have said you have not seen charges coming out of New York yet that if -- if and when there are and you have seen them, will you be pleading not guilty to those involved?

DICKEY: That would be my expectation. That certainly would be my advice.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your client's demeanor the past two days with the arraignment and again today at the hearing, at some points he was, you know, smiling, laughing. You even have to actually tell him to stop talking. What is his -- what are his feelings right now? He seems outspoken.

DICKEY: Well, all -- all -- all I can -- well, you know, he's ob -- you know, I said earlier, use your common sense. If you -- you put yourself in you or loved one in that position, it's, you know, natural, I think, to go through many emotional states. As far as him not talking, as long as I want to be the lawyer, I'm going to do all the talking. My clients not going to say anything.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, a quick question about process. I -- I -- I was also at the -- at the hearing last night. I don't remember any plea being asked for or answered.

DICKEY: OK. As long as he hasn't pled guilty, that's all I care about, so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. In -- in -- in -- in the Blair County case, it just looks --

DICKEY: Well, I'm telling you as his lawyer, he didn't have any lawyer record and I was a little. He didn't have any representation until I got involved this afternoon. And I'm telling you, he's pleading not guilty to each and every.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When does that plea normally happen?

DICKEY: Like I said, normally that could happen at the -- that could happen at the --that the -- what happened last night at the, you know, informal arraignment, which is that the magisterial district judge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you're telling this is all some sort of awful mistake?

DICKEY: I'm not going to talk about anything he's told me. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do you end up in Altoona?

DICKEY: I'm not going to talk about that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has he been able to contact his family since?

DICKEY: Yes, I'm not going to get into that either.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you tell us when you were hired?

DICKEY: I can say sometime prior to the hearing this afternoon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You were hired and not appointed by the court?

DICKEY: That is correct.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If Governor Hochul side provides this governor's extradition thing, does that change the -- the timetable here? You still have the right to have these hearing, don't you?

DICKEY: Yes sir, we do. Like I said, and I'm not trying to be, I mean, it's 20, you know, 24. I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything, but when we see, we've got to wait until we see things. When things happen, we'll react to that and -- and proceed accordingly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Since cameras weren't allowed in the courtroom, which is normal and fine --

DICKEY: In Pennsylvania. That's the law.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- would you be able to give us a summary of what it is that happened in the courtroom today?

DICKEY: Yes, today is basically what it was, and it happened fast. There was a extradition hearing scheduled. I found out about that about an hour or so before the hearing. And the initial thing is a person can waive extradition. And it was my opinion and my advice under the circumstances that he not, and I emphasize the not because apparently there's news reports already going out that he waived his extradition. He did not do that.

[17:45:08]

DICKEY: And so that's why we wanted to make sure we're going to use the process and use the Constitution and the rights that are available to anyone of us in this room and any American citizen or person charged with a crime. So we're going to move -- move forward.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He should not be eligible -- I'm sorry, that he should be eligible for bail, excuse me.

DICKEY: Yes ma'am.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Talk about some of those reasons.

DICKEY: Yes so, in Pennsylvania, the -- the Constitution says that all crimes are generally a bailable offense. Bailable offense means you have to set some form of bail. The exception to that is if it's a capital case, which is a -- which means the -- the commonwealth or the government is looking for the death penalty. And I -- proud to say I'm one of the few attorneys in Pennsylvania that's qualified to do death penalty cases.

But those which, this is not a capital case, knock on wood, at least that I'm aware of right now. Or if a first degree murder, which carries in Pennsylvania life without parole, if the charge which you're faced with is life without parole, then you're not eligible for bail. Since the crime, at least what was set forth by the district attorney

was alleged to be a second degree murder, that's not life without parole. So I believe that bail should have been set.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But you also talked about the home monitoring system was a possibility, his lack of prior criminal history. I mean, you -- you really feel that your client should be out in the public. You do not feel that he's a threat to the community.

DICKEY: Yes. Now you got to understand, when you set bail, the judge could set a million dollar bail. It could be $5 million bail, but damn it, you get bail. That's what you do. And like I said, anytime you look at the criminal justice system, pretend you're that one in that spotlight, you're going to want to be out and, you know, so yeah, I think he was entitled to bail. And the judge makes it 100 million or 10 billion or 100,000, he's entitled to bail. But to simply say no bail, in all due respect to the judge, I -- I believe bail should have been set.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He implied that some of the cash that was found on him was wanted. Or he didn't know what it was to do with. Can you speak to that please?

DICKEY: I can't because I wasn't at that proceeding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is your claim being held in confinement?

DICKEY: I can't comment on that. I don't -- I do not know.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was the procedure in the next couple of days? What are you going to do? What is going to happen?

DICKEY: I'm not going to get in a lot of detail. I do have some things planned, but I can't get into that because I don't think that's what attorneys do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry. Are -- are there any other court proceedings in the next day or two?

DICKEY: Not that I'm aware of. I hope that since I'm the attorney of record that they let me know about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Earlier today you talked about the masks possibly being related -- TAPPER: All right, you've been listening to Thomas Dickey, the defense attorney from the great city of Altoona, PA, who is currently representing the CEO killing suspect Luigi Mangione. We're going to keep following the story and bring you more updates as they happen.

[17:47:59]

But next, the new steps that the U.S. government is taking after dozens of people got sick from a bird flu outbreak.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Health Lead today, an ongoing outbreak of bird flu in cattle that has resulted in dozens of people getting sick. That has put new attention on the U.S. Milk supply. The federal government now plans to test milk across the country to get a better idea of how this virus is spreading. CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta is here for his On Call segment. You can scan the QR code on your screen. You guys got to put it up there. There it is. And submit your question. Sanjay, should I be concerned about getting sick from drinking the milk in my refrigerator?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I -- I think the short answer is no. Thankfully 99 percent of the milk supply in the United States is pasteurized. That's sort of the key to -- to this. It's a high temperature, low duration paste. So 160 degrees for at least 15 seconds and that takes care of most of the problems. The concern is, Jake, you know, we have a -- a not insignificant about 1 percent of the population that is drinking raw milk every week.

So there's a demand for this. It's, again, a small percentage, but it's -- it's a thing. And I think part of the reason they do it is because of possible health benefits from the bioactive ingredients in raw milk. There's not a lot of evidence behind that, but what we know is that there can be pathogens since over the last 20 years or so, there's been about 200 or so outbreaks related to raw milk, pathogens like salmonella and E. coli and listeria. And now there's a concern about H5N1. There's not been anyone who's gotten sick from drinking raw milk because of H5N1.

But that is the concern now, Jake. So that's why this testing that you just mentioned is going to beginning next week. They're going to be checking the milk at lots of dairy farms. But again, pasteurization is a really effective technique for these pathogens. One reason, I'll tell you quickly, Jake, that H5N1 really gets the attention of epidemiologists. And I've covered this -- this virus in places around the world. There was a huge outbreak in southeast Asia in 2006. I want to show you just some global numbers.

If you go back about 20, 21 years or so, take a look the number of cases on the left and the number of deaths in each of those bar graphs. Not that many cases, but a really high mortality rate. If you do the math on this, about 50 percent of the people who got infected overall died. But what you see, though, is the number of cases overall going down and the mortality rate going down as well. Some, possibly some good news there, Jake. But still something that they want to keep an eye on in the United States. We've been talking about this since March, when a cow became infected. And now, you know, we're -- we're starting this more robust testing process.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. And don't forget to submit your questions to Sanjay. He'll be back tomorrow to answer some of them.

[17:55:04]

Another professional athlete becomes the victim of a crime while in the midst of playing his sport on national T.V. in primetime. Our last leads are next.

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TAPPER: In our Sports Lead, Joe Burrow is the latest pro athlete to be targeted by burglars. Local officials say the House of the Sin City -- Cincinnati Bengals quarterback was broken into last night while he was in Dallas for the game against the Cowboys. NFL players including Patrick Mahomes and Travis Kelce as well as other athletes in the NBA and the NHL have also experienced break-ins over the past few weeks. Last month, the NFL warned players that the organized thieves quote, appear to exploit team schedules to target athletes homes on game days.

[18:00:00]

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, and the TikTok on Jake Tapper -- at JakeTapper, Follow the show on X at TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show all two hours whence you get your podcast.

The news continues now on CNN with Wolf Blitzer right next door in a place I like to call The Situation Room. See you tomorrow.