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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Mangione Pleads Not Guilty To Murder, Terror Charges In My Court; House Ethics Committee Releases Bombshell Matt Gaetz Report; Trump On Giving Up Power To Musk: "That's Not Happening"; President Commutes Death Sentences For 37 To Life In Prison; Blake Lively Accuses Co-Star of Harassment and Retaliation. Aired 4-5p ET
Aired December 23, 2024 - 16:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[16:00:11]
DANNY FREEMAN, CNN HOST: Love that so much.
ERICA HILL, CNN HOST: Good stuff.
Danny, it's a pleasure being next to you. There's a wall separating us, but I can -- I can feel that we were really working together today.
FREEMAN: Yeah, likewise. Your energy is right through the wall.
HILL: Yes, yes, we should do it again tomorrow.
FREEMAN: Sounds good.
HILL: All right. Stay tuned. THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER starts right now.
PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: The alleged killer being treated like a human ping pong ball, so says his attorney.
THE LEAD starts right now.
More dramatic scenes in New York as Luigi Mangione was back to court today, this time to face state charges. What Mangione's lawyer is accusing prosecutors of and why she's going after New York City Mayor Eric Adams?
Plus, flood gates open. The House Ethics Committee releases its damning report about former Congressman Matt Gaetz. The findings he spent tens of thousands of dollars on drugs and sex, including sex with a 17 year old girl. Could this open gates up to potential criminal charges?
And -- sovereignty? What sovereignty does President-elect Trump really eyeing a land and water grab? A major pushback from foreign leaders, one of whom says Trumps purchase plan is, quote, absurd.
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MATTINGLY: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Phil Mattingly, in for Jake Tapper.
We start with our law and justice lead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Luigi, will you say something?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: That, of course, was murder suspect Luigi Mangione, after a significant day in a New York City courtroom, back in the city where he allegedly shot and killed the CEO of UnitedHealthcare, Brian Thompson, just three weeks ago. Mangione pleaded not guilty to the New York state charges, including terrorism, first degree and second degree murder. His attorney argued the state and federal prosecutors are playing political ping pong with him, adding this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAREN FRIEDMAN AGNIFILO, MANGIONE'S ATTORNEY: I'm very concerned about my client's right to a fair trial. Like every other defendant, he is entitled to a presumption of innocence. But unfortunately, the way this has been handled so far, his rights are being violated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Meanwhile, dozens protested outside holding signs with phrases such as people over profit and free Luigi.
CNN's Shimon Prokupecz brings us to New York, where prosecutors have mountains of evidence to sort through.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
COURT OFFICIAL: The crime of murder in the first degree and other related charges. How do you plead to this indictment, sir? Guilty or not guilty?
LUIGI MANGIONE, ALLEGED CEO KILLER: Not guilty.
SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice- over): Accused killer Luigi Mangione back in court. This time for the charges he faces in New York state. Wearing khakis and a maroon sweater shackled at the wrists and ankles, the camera in court capturing the 26 year old as he faces 11 state charges that include murder in the first degree and murder in the second degree as a crime of terrorism for the alleged killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson.
AGNIFILO: He's a young man and he is being treated like a human ping pong ball.
PROKUPECZ: His attorney slamming the way Mangione was paraded before cameras when being brought back to New York City from Pennsylvania.
AGNIFILO: They are literally treating him like he is like -- like some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle.
PROKUPECZ: During the arraignment, with rare camera access being allowed to record the proceedings, prosecutors disclosing just how much evidence they have.
JOEL SEIDEMANN, PROSECUTOR: I have never seen a case with such volume of evidence, aside from the issue of the quality of the evidence. This is not a usual case in terms of the thousands of hours of video tracking and the like.
PROKUPECZ: Mangione seen smiling at times while talking with his legal team.
Outside court, a small group of protesters gathered to voice their support for Mangione.
(CHANTING)
PROKUPECZ: The hearing ended with Mangione casually folding some papers before police escorted him away.
REPORTER: Luigi, do you have anything to say?
PROKUPECZ: Mangione also faces federal charges that include murder through the use of a firearm. The state trial is expected to come first. Mangione faces a maximum sentence of life in prison for the state charges, and prosecutors could decide to seek a death penalty in the federal case.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PROKUPECZ (on camera): And Phil, he'll be back in court on February 21st on the state charges. As for the federal case, we believe there's a chance he could be back in court for that in January. We're waiting to see when he's indicted on the federal charges. Of course, his lawyer today signaling quite a fight, as she says that her client is being treated unfairly and certainly unhappy with how law enforcement has behaved in this case.
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MATTINGLY: Shimon Prokupecz live for us in New York, thanks so much.
Let's get right to our panel of experts. CNN's chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst John Miller, criminal defense trial attorney Stacy Schneider, and former prosecutor in the Manhattan D.A.'s office, Jeremy Saland.
Jeremy, I want to start with you because Shimon just mentioned this. We had it in the piece as well. Mangione's lawyer arguing that he might not get a fair trial and said the state and federal jurisdictions are treating him like a human ping pong ball. Is there merit to what she's laying out here?
JEREMY SALAND, FORMER PROSECUTOR: You know, she has to make that argument whether that's going to win the day. And actually, from a legal standpoint, be, pardon me, be the foundation for this, to say this is not going to be fair. I don't think it reaches that point.
But to her -- her statement about being a ping pong ball and having this choreographed absolutely, unequivocally, this is a player. We called it bigfooting by the by the federal government. This is a play for them to see something that really they shouldn't be in. It's a state case, but it becomes something far, far more in terms of a spectacle to the public.
MATTINGLY: Yeah, there's no question about that.
Stacy, you've made the point that the first degree murder and terrorism charges, they could -- could be overreach on some level. Do you think throwing the book at the suspect here may actually backfire on the district attorney? Could actually amp up public support for Mangione that we've already seen on some level?
STACY SCHNEIDER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE TRIAL ATTORNEY: Yeah, we've seen unusual public support for someone who is charged with murder. But the thing is, the district attorneys office has to present a case, and they've done so in front of a grand jury based on the evidence they have. Why? I think this is amped up. And also, you know, sort of political as was just discussed is because they went into a grand jury, they certainly have enough evidence from what they've signaled to the public about having matching DNA or, excuse me, forensic evidence on -- on the water bottle allegedly found at the scene, on the kind bar wrapper found at the scene.
Then law enforcement and the das office has signaled that they did a test firing of the 3D gun that was confiscated, allegedly from Luigi Mangione, and the firing of those bullets matched the casings at the scene. This case is so unusual. The behavior of law enforcement is so unusual, and the district attorney's office and the mayor's office of the city of New York that they are signaling this information about the strength of their case.
It's not normal. It's not the way things are done. And to go into the grand jury and charge this as an act of terrorism, where the only way that we know that the insurance industry was allegedly targeted, or that the victim, Brian Thompson, was allegedly targeted because of his role at, at an insurance company is because law enforcement told us that through the media.
Luigi Mangione allegedly did not publish his alleged manifesto. That's what the law enforcement is calling it. So far, we don't know that there's some kind of hit list here where he was going to allegedly take out more people.
This might have been the -- a single act by someone who is mentally unstable, allegedly. Again, he's charged and innocent until a jury proves it. But they didn't need to go into the grand jury and charge this as a terroristic act. They could have charged this as a straight murder to without a terrorist component.
MATTINGLY: John, to that point, the information that we have from law enforcement, obviously the kind of public optics of the perp walk, the photo we had from last week, the new video of Mangione being slowly walked into and out of court today, flanked by several officers. What's the strategy? What's your sense of the strategy behind these very public displays and efforts?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANLYST: Well, first, Phil, this is a case of extraordinarily high public interest. We can't kind of avoid that. That is the elephant in the room, which is the press has been looking for these pictures. They want these pictures.
They staked out the Pennsylvania locations. They staked out the airport where the plane landed. They staked out the heliport where the helicopter landed.
The policy of the police department is that they neither encourage nor discourage the photographing of defendants in public areas. So, some of that is the natural course of this. And I mean, lets not pretend we remember the perp walk of the Son of Sam, of Frank James, the guy who shot the ten people on the subway a couple of years ago of the Zazi case and the terrorism thing.
We've seen these big perp walks before. What we generally don't see is the mayor being present. And I think that was a signal from a politician who is fighting every day to remind people that New York is the safest big city in the country against the backdrop of the regular crime New York experiences, and something like this, a high profile assassination in its streets.
So his presence there was basically the symbol of saying, if you do a major crime here, you're going to get caught.
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And that was purposeful.
MATTINGLY: Jeremy, if you're a prosecutor on this case, I take yourself back to your former life. Do you does that create problems for you, or are you okay with that?
SALAND: Well, I think it's really rich. And what John is not saying, but also I'm sure recognizing is that you also have a mayor who's there trying to distract from the fact that he's been indicted by the Southern District, which now has Mangione's case.
All of this is a distraction. Joel Seidmann, I've known him. I served with him for seven years in his bureau. He's an incredibly bright. He's a prosecutor's prosecutor. He knows that evidence inside and out.
And he pointed out something, as we were listening to before about the quantity of evidence. This is not a quantity of evidence issue. And frankly, it's not a quality of evidence issue.
It's whether just because you can doesn't mean you should. And what I mean by that is you can go into a grand jury and charge anything you want within reason, and a grand jury will likely indict within reason. But this is not the appropriate case. Meaning this first degree felony, this first degree murder, just as it's not appropriate for the federal government to be involved, whether that means there was pressure by the insurance agency, whether they're sending a message.
All this may be true, but that does not change the elements of the crime. And I will say the good thing about Joel, and which will be difficult to overcome, is he's not going to pay any attention to what's happening outside the courtroom from inside baseball perspective. He's going to do his homework and make sure it's presented properly.
Karen has a big uphill battle. Not for all of the charges, because I really believe ultimately, DNA aside, video aside, he may have committed the acts, but did he commit the crime? Is there an insanity defense? Is that going to be something successful?
And I would say one less thing, one other thing here. You know, the federal government, the southern district is claiming or potentially pursuing this, this felony complaint to an indictment, to a possible trial. Will they seek the death penalty? Well, their current president, who the current runs the show here now, at least through the rest of the year, just granted clemency to, I believe, 37 or 40 people on death row. What's going on here?
This is really a power grab on the outside for a case that deserves attention, but no more than a domestic violence homicide and murder either. So let's be clear what were looking at.
MATTINGLY: Yeah, we're going to dig a little bit further into the clemency that we saw earlier today from the White House, that you brought that up. It's a nice little segue, a nice little teaser, Jeremy.
We appreciate you guys very much for the expertise and sharing a lot more to get to hear.
Of course, the other major story today we're following the bombshell from Capitol Hill, the House Ethics Committee releasing its highly anticipated report on Matt Gaetz. The findings involve sex, drugs and a whole lot of money. Could this put the former congressman in legal jeopardy? That's next.
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MATTINGLY: Back now with our politics lead and that bombshell report today from the House Ethics Committee. It details damning allegations against now former Republican Congressman Matt Gaetz. The report accuses Gaetz of paying for sex and drugs on at least 20 occasions, including allegedly paying a 17-year-old for sex in 2017. Those payments, totaling tens of thousands of dollars.
The committee says it found evidence of statutory rape, drug use and violations of House rules. Allegations Gaetz vehemently denies.
Gaetz unsuccessfully sued to block the reports release this morning, claiming a lack of due process.
CNN crime and justice correspondent Katelyn Polantz joins us now.
And, Katelyn, you've been going through the report throughout the course of the day. What really stood out to you?
KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the committee here not only has testimony from more than a half dozen people, including the victim, the girl now woman who in July of 2017 had sex at a party with Gaetz twice. The committee highlights that she was going into her senior year of high school, and that she did receive $400 in cash. So that's one thing that they have documented with this witness testimony, but they've also documented a lot of the other pieces of these allegations against Matt Gaetz.
They have things like text messages, text messages where Gaetz is asking an unnamed woman for what appears to be drugs, calling them cartridges, vitamins, complement of party favors. There's another text messages text message where he says he needs cartridges. And so, the -- the House Ethics Committee in this report brings together all of these allegations.
We have so long been hearing about Matt Gaetz, saying, we believe that these allegations show that when he was a sitting member of Congress, he was engaging in prostitution. He was statutorily raping this 17- year-old in the state of Florida. And also that he was using illicit drugs. And then they go as far to put the environment of these parties together. And right.
While all the women that the committee interviewed stated that their sexual activity with Representative Gaetz was consensual, at least one woman felt that the use of drugs at the parties and events they attended may have impaired their ability to really know what was going on, or fully consent. Indeed, nearly every woman that the committee spoke with could not remember the details of at least one or more of the events they attended with Representative Gaetz, and attributed that to drug or alcohol consumption.
And a reminder, this isn't just a random member of Congress. This is a prominent, powerful member formerly of the House, of the conservative movement that Donald Trump wanted to be the attorney general in a very short lived proposed nomination.
MATTINGLY: Who spoke at a very high profile conservative rally this weekend, where the president-elect also appeared.
I do want to ask about the lawsuit this morning from Matt Gaetz, trying to, I think, shut off the committee's ability to post the report. I think didn't work clearly.
POLANTZ: Right.
MATTINGLY: Yeah.
POLANTZ: There were three different things he was doing in that filing in federal court in Washington. It came in not even a couple hours before the house publicly posted their report, as well as the evidence that they had gathered. But what he was alleging in it was that he said the House was defaming him, the House was invading his privacy and that the House should be stopped from making the report public.
Obviously, that was a nonstarter. The courts were very unlikely to get involved, especially on that short term notice.
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And then just a few minutes ago, he had his lawyers went to court and said, it's all moot now. The reports out there, but we're going to have to see if he does more. We're in a litigious age where people are filing things all of the time, claiming defamation to see how far they can go in court.
MATTINGLY: Yeah, it's a really great point. Katelyn Polantz as always, my friend. Thanks so much.
Well, here to talk about all of this. Kedric Payne, former deputy chief counsel at the office of congressional ethics, and Tom Dupree, former principal deputy assistant attorney general in the George W. Bush administration.
Tom, I want to start with you. The ethics report, it not only outlines the substantial evidence of state law violations, as you heard, Katelyn, kind of roll through, including statutory rape, prostitution also raises the question of potential charges at the state level in Florida. Do you see a scenario where state prosecutors pursue charges based on this report?
Well, I think the state prosecutors have to take a look at this report.
TOM DUPREE, FORMER PRINCIPAL DEPUTY ASSISTANT ATTORNEY GENERAL, GW BUSH ADMIN.: Look, I mean, this report is exceedingly serious. It recites a litany of vice, including conduct that could potentially be criminally charged. I think the state prosecutors would have to wrestle with a few things. One is they would have to make sure there's not a statute of limitations issue, because some of this conduct occurred allegedly 7 or 8 years ago.
The other thing they'd have to do is just make the decision whether or not they could prove their case against Gaetz beyond a reasonable doubt. The House committee isn't bound by any sort of standards of proof. They can put their accusations in the report.
But for a prosecutor, you have to make sure you have the evidence. You have to think about what witnesses am I going to put on? How will I build a case? How will I ultimately persuade a jury beyond a reasonable doubt, the highest standard known to American criminal law that they could convict Matt Gaetz for this conduct?
MATTINGLY: You know, Kedric, to that point, you had the lawyer for two women who testified in this probe now saying the ethics committee report vindicates their accounts. The testimony and the detailed filings in the report -- you would kind of to toms point, potentially strengthen a state level case. Could these corroborated accounts help drive at least prosecutors taking another look at this potentially going further?
KEDRIC PAYNE, VP AND GENERAL COUNSEL, CAMPAIGN LEGAL CENTER: Absolutely. I think the importance of the release of this report is that it shows the public clearly what happened. And you would think that the public also wants the state officials to do something about it. You can't have this much evidence that's just flowing out of this report, sit there in the public's eye, and the state prosecutors decide to do nothing.
So I do believe that all of this evidence, especially the text messages and all of the witnesses, over a dozen, 12 to 15 witnesses that testified before the committee, shows that something should be done with the violations of state law.
MATTINGLY: You know, Tom, we've said multiple times and repeatedly over the course of the last several months,
Gaetz has vehemently denied what's being charged or what is laid out in this report. He's been very active on X blasting the report, for example. What more testimony you won't see in the ethics report? This is clearly not prostitution under any conceivable definition, which is why I was never charged with a crime. Then there's his answer where he said, no, we never discussed money.
What impact could this have on public opinion, both for the ethics process ethics committee, but also for Gaetz?
DUPREE: Well, I'm not sure its going to influence public opinion a huge amount. In other words, what we saw in the house report today was direct testimony, including, ironically, from Gaetz himself in the form of text messages. They show the precise communications that he was having with these people.
And you're right that his story is look, he says, I kind of led a wild life. I womanized, I drank to excess, I used drugs, and I'm a different man now. Maybe that will resonate in the court of public opinion. But I think there were a lot of people today who said, look, you know, kind of I'm willing to take him at his word. But when we see these texts, when we see the evidence of the financial transactions, when we hear what witnesses who were at these parties observed and the direct communications they had with the Congressman, it's pretty sobering.
MATTINGLY: Kedric, in terms of precedent, obviously, on Capitol Hill, Congress, particularly the ethics committee, operates with a very strong element of precedent to what they do or don't do. This was part of the reason why some Republicans said this shouldn't be released, since Gaetz ended up resigning.
I know that there is a specific case back, I think in the mid '70s, where a Tennessee House member who had resigned to go run for mayor. His report was eventually released as well. I guess my question is, precedent-wise, how significant is this in terms of a committee that tries to keep their work secret and bipartisan?
KEDRIC PAYNE, VP AND GENERAL COUNSEL, CAMPAIGN LEGAL CENTER: I think its very significant that they released the report. But the true precedent that was set here was that this was a thorough investigation by the House ethics committee.
People should not lose sight of the fact that typically, this House Ethics committee does not conduct a long investigation, have this much evidence, and then find that the Congress person actually violated the law. Therefore, usually the person doesn't have to run from Congress. They can remain in Congress and not deal with any potential consequences.
So it's a big deal that they released the report. But that has happened before. And it just further establishes that there is a time when these reports must be released so that the public is fully aware of what their elected officials are doing.
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MATTINGLY: Tom, that's such a great point that Kedric just made. Having covered Congress for a decade plus, we often were aware of investigations ongoing. Never really saw the end of them, heard the end of them, didn't really know what they entailed. Certainly didn't know the scale that ever matched something like this.
Does this change how that committee, how its investigators operate going forward?
DUPREE: It probably does. But look, I think were in a bit of a different world now. I mean, historically, you're right. This is a committee, the ethics committee that traditionally has operated shrouded in secrecy. But I think here we had a situation where Matt Gaetz, even though he had resigned from Congress.
And look, I mean, when he says that typically the ethics committee doesn't release these reports after people have left Congress, as a general rule, I think that's true. And the house committee itself acknowledged it. But I think were in a different world here because Gaetz not only was the nominee for attorney general, but he said that he intends to remain involved in politics in Florida in the future.
And so I think from the perspective of the committee, and there were Republicans who voted to release this report, there were Republicans who were involved in the preparation of the report, simply said that no matter what our precedent, no matter what the historical practice of the committee is, the public deserves to know what we found.
MATTINGLY: Yeah, great points by both.
Kedric, Tom, really appreciate your time. Thanks so much.
PAYNE: Thank you.
MATTINGLY: Well, Donald Trump campaigned on America First. Now he's looking to take America abroad, calling to take over two different areas outside of U.S. borders. Why one prime minister says it's absurd.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Nice to win the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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MATTINGLY: In our politics lead, now that the salacious details of the Matt Gaetz ethics report are out in public for anyone to read, what does it actually mean for his political future?
Let's jump right in with our political panel.
Shermichael Singleton, Kate Bedingfield, thanks so much for joining me.
Shermichael, I want to start with you, because what I was struck by, given the timing of this report release, was what we heard from Matt Gaetz yesterday at a big conservative rally down in Arizona. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT GAETZ (R), FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: My fellow Floridians have asked me to eye the governor's mansion in Tallahassee.
Maybe special counsel to go after the insider trading for my former colleagues in Congress.
It seems I may not have had enough support in the United States Senate. Maybe I'll just run for Marco Rubio's vacant seat in the United States Senate and join some of those folks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: At any other moment, Shermichael, in history, you would say after a report like this, that person probably doesn't have much of a future in politics. I take what Matt Gaetz was saying there quite seriously. What do you see about his future down in Florida in elected politics?
SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yeah, I think maybe he may run for governor. I'm not exactly sure if DeSantis would appoint him to the Senate. I think the governor is probably eyeing a couple other individuals.
But look, you know, I think there could be a point to be made about what Mr. Gaetz just experienced. I don't know if you recall the reporting a couple of years ago that suggested that there was a secret slush fund of funds in Congress that they would sort of issue out to a slew of potential victims of alleged sexual abuse or harassment by members of congress. And that reporting kind of went nowhere. And so I'm sort of the mindset, I think what is alleged here is, is
troubling. But I would also like to see how often are members of Congress paying out individuals that they have alleged to have harassed or sexually assaulted in some type of potentially illegal way. And so I don't think the mail should stop here, if you will. I think we should go forward. Open up the door, let us see what these guys are doing and let us see how they're paying off individuals with taxpayer dollars. I think it's a big problem.
MATTINGLY: I mean, look, as the reporter on this panel, I welcome all of the ethics documents being released publicly as quickly and as often as we could possibly get them.
You know, Kate, am I overstating kind of Gaetz's role? And I understand you're the Democrat here. This is not necessarily a role, but boy, you have witnessed it and been fighting against it in a campaign perspective and from a White House perspective over the course of the last eight-ish or nine-ish or 10-ish years, maybe.
Do you think that this ends his political career? Is there a real future for him?
KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, (AUDIO GAP) cover that. Look, I think that there -- what you saw here from Congress was a committee that historically kind of to Shermichael's point and to the point of the reporting from your previous discussion -- in your previous segment has historically not really been forthcoming in -- in putting out the results of these kinds of investigations here.
You had somebody whose behavior was so egregious and somebody who had rubbed so many people on Capitol Hill the wrong way and made so many enemies, frankly, here (AUDIO GAP) and out of its way, to be transparent about what it found, including Republicans on the committee, as we've seen in the reporting, voting to make the -- to make the results of the report known.
So, look, I think obviously in the Donald Trump era, I guess you can never say never say never about somebody's political futures. We've seen a lot of people who in previous times would have been down for the count, have comebacks, including, many would say, Trump himself.
I think it is very hard to see a world where Matt Gaetz, who as we know from reporting from his colleagues on the Hill, has openly bragged about some of the behavior that he's now trying to suggest, you know, is -- doesn't comport with what the report found.
I think it's going to be very, very hard for him to run for any significant elected office moving forward.
MATTINGLY: I think that statement alone guarantees he is the next governor of Florida. No, that's a joke.
Shermichael, I want to ask you about --
BEDINGFIELD: The only problem. MATTINGLY: I want to ask you. The government is open today. Big high five for everyone, continuing resolutions, rocking and rolling over there. In terms of functioning as a federal government, at least one branch of the government.
I think what was fascinating about the entire process was not just the kind of Trumpian effect as president-elect. We went through several shutdowns during his time period, including one of the longest in history. It was the role of Elon Musk and how they kind of work together in tandem.
[16:35:01]
And I think that confused some Republican members as well as Democrats, including Congressman Tony Gonzalez. This is how he described it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): It's kind of interesting. We have a president, we have a vice president. We have a speaker. It feels like as if Elon Musk is our prime minister.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: And I think Democrats have tried to leverage that a little bit and try and create some space in between the two of them, which Trump seemed to respond to yesterday at that event in Arizona. This is what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The new one is President Trump has ceded the presidency to Elon Musk. No, no, that's not happening. But no, he's not going to be president. That I can tell you.
And I'm safe. You know why? He cant be. He wasn't born in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: Constitutionally accurate assessment of things.
Shermichael, Musk's role here and how he works with the president to amplify messages, but also if he differs with him, what's your sense of it?
SINGLETON: Well, you know, to the congressman's point, I mean, I wonder how many times he's asked or offered up his opinions and interviews about the current president, Joe Biden, where he's been or hasn't been in all of these conversations about keeping the government open and funded. And we saw that "Wall Street Journal" reporting that recently came out several days ago, that pretty much indicated that its been the presidents aides and advisers that are kind of running the White House. That's very concerning. Now, as it pertains to Mr. Musk, there have been other incredibly
wealthy individuals in the past in our country's history who have played major roles in helping keep the country alive and moving forward. I remember about 100 years ago, give or take, you had a super wealthy individual. I think it was Rockefeller, if I recall correctly, who helped save the country from going bankrupt. I could be wrong with the name here.
My point is, though, that we have seen highly successful people in this country who have been some of the wealthiest people in our country's history that have done significant things to help move the needle forward in terms of governance. For the average American person, I don't think Mr. Musk is any different. He shouldn't be treated any differently.
And I welcome some of his suggestions based off of his expertise, expertise and his obvious success. But look at the amazing things this guy is doing that no one else has done in terms of changing the way we travel, changing our ability to get to space in a more effective and cost effective ways. Those things shouldn't be discounted.
If he can get a rocket to the moon and maybe even to Mars, why not take his advice in terms of cutting some of the government waste and making sure that we actually have a budget, which we haven't had in a very long time?
MATTINGLY: It will be fascinating to watch. I think its one where Democrats acknowledge, hey, there's some areas here we may be able to work together on.
I do want to ask, though, Kate, before I let you go, the president- elect was pretty into Greenland, which seemed a little bit random, but there was some foreign policy basis of it when you talk to conservatives back in his first term, that's back. But so too is the Panama Canal being an issue that really became something he was concerned about and threatened to take back.
I guess I'm interested is what's the -- what's your read on the point here? Is he just kind of throwing chum out as he often does? Or do we think we should take him seriously on a foreign policy basis?
BEDINGFIELD: Well, I think there's certainly you can see the rhetorical muscle behind this. Its kind of a it has an America First sort of beating your chest sense of America has a right to take and do whatever it wants. I can see the messaging value behind saying Panama is charging these exorbitant fees, and were going to do everything we can to prevent that from happening.
I think there are a couple of issues with this from a substantive perspective. One, there's not a lot of mechanisms available here to achieve what Trump claims he's trying to achieve. I don't imagine he wants to send, you know, American boots on the ground to Panama to forcibly take the canal. I can't imagine that's something he's interested in doing.
You know, so is this a realistic, thing that he's putting out there? Not really. And then secondly, there's a China component to this. I mean, the Panama Canal is a neutral zone. That was part of the reasoning behind the signing over of the canal to Panama. And the treaty that did so was to ensure that it would remain a neutral zone. And there's concern and debate about the increasing influence of China in the region.
So there's also, you know, there's reasons to think about how provocative behavior in that area could potentially move the Panamanians toward China, which is presumably not an outcome Donald Trump wants to see.
So there are real policy impacts behind what he's saying here. You know, to me, this feels a lot more like a big messaging moment and a very kind of classically Trumpian one than a real policy priority for his team moving forward. But I suppose we will find out, wont we?
MATTINGLY: Distinguishing between the two. We've had a lot of practice trying to figure it out. We could probably all feel better real quick, real quick.
SINGLETON: Really quickly. It wasn't Rockefeller. It was J.P. Morgan in terms of helping the U.S. government stay afloat about 100 years ago. I just want to be accurate for our viewers.
[16:40:02]
MATTINGLY: I -- you know what? That, Shermichael, that's why we love you, man. Like you're going to get -- you're going to get it. I don't even need to correct. I knew you were going to come back around. I knew you were going to come back around.
Kate Bedingfield, Shermichael Singleton, we appreciate you guys. Thanks so much.
BEDINGFIELD: Thank you.
SINGLETON: Happy holidays, Phil. Thank you.
MATTINGLY: Well, a major move today by President Biden commuting the death sentences of almost all federal prisoners on death row. The new reaction just in from Donald Trump's team.
Plus, the criminal justice advocates who say more can be done.
Stay with us.
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MATTINGLY: In our politics lead, an early morning surprise today, President Biden ordering the commutations of 37 of the 40 people currently on federal death row, changing them to life sentences. The president moving before Donald Trump, a proponent of capital punishment, takes office. The president-elect's team calling Biden's move a, quote, abhorrent decision benefiting, quote, the worst killers in the world. Now, there are three men still on death row, Robert Bowers, who killed
11 people at the Tree of Life Synagogue in Pittsburgh in 2018. Dylann Roof for gunning down nine people in 2015 at a historically Black church in Charleston. And one of the Boston marathon bomber, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev.
Now, despite the commutations, there are calls for more to be done. The NAACP strongly supports abolishing the death penalty.
And joining me now is Derrick Johnson. He's the president and CEO of the NAACP.
You released a statement today praising the president's actions, but calling for more.
[16:45:01]
There's a lot of levels to what more you're calling for here, what should be done, what more could be done by the Biden administration?
DERRICK JOHNSON, PRESIDENT & CEO, NAACP: Well, first of all, we commend President Biden and the administration for taking this bold step. This was absolutely necessary. You know, the data doesn't lie here, that for every eight person that is executed, there is one person on death row that's exonerated because they never committed the crime.
We should not be playing a game of chance with individual lives. But more importantly, the extraordinary power of the clemency and pardon power of the president is something that we urge him to continue to use. We have sentencing disparities. We have the crack powder cocaine disparity. We have marijuana charges. That's no longer a crime.
Now, the clemency power for federal convictions should be used before he leaves office. And then you have some amazing individuals who are contributing to society and could do even more if they receive the pardon. So we commend the president on this bold step, and we encourage him to do more.
MATTINGLY: When you talk about the sentencing disparities as it pertains to what was known as the war on drugs, I think a lot of administration officials have acknowledged the wrong in how many of them were actually doled out. Have you gotten any word from the White House that that may be coming, that that's something they're working on, given I think, the import to many of the people in the administration.
JOHNSON: You know, this power is in the sole discretion of the president. Our job as an advocacy organization, we are presenting information, talking to the staff, doing the necessary research. But ultimately, it will be his decision. Were going to do all we can to provide any information, answer any questions, and hope that it land well.
The beautiful thing about the announcement today, it was rooted in his moral values. He spoke to the pope. He's Catholic. He's a devout Catholic, and he took a position as a result of understanding the moral arc of what we must do for humanity, and we're asking him to stay in that space to give people second chances, to allow opportunities and address disparities that should have never been created in the first place.
MATTINGLY: One of the individuals who sentenced was death. Sentence was commuted today is Billy Allen. The NAACP has worked on his case that they say is a wrongful conviction. Do you are you going to continue to work to try and, essentially have his advocate for his release at this point?
JOHNSON: You know, the best thing about the decision was for an individual like that, as opposed to be executed and everything is done, it gives an opportunity that if, in fact, he did not commit the crime, it still gives an opportunity to be exonerated.
But once you execute someone, it's the end of the conversation. Because even if you find that the person didn't commit the crime, you cannot bring that person back. And that's what our criminal justice system should be allowing for all opportunities to be exhausted. But even then, if were going to be pro-life, let's be pro-life.
MATTINGLY: NAACP president and CEO, Derrick Johnson, thanks so much for your time.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
MATTINGLY: Well, fellow actors today rallying around one of America's biggest stars, Blake Lively, after she accused her costar of harassment and retaliation. The legal action she's taking when we come back.
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[16:51:48]
MATTINGLY: In our pop culture, lead actress Blake Lively is accusing her costar Justin Baldoni of sexual harassment and retaliation. Lively is alleging that her "It Ends With Us" costar coordinated a public relations campaign designed to destroy her reputation. Those allegations are contained in a civil rights complaint lively filed after she took issue with his behavior on set.
CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister has been following this story is joining us now with more.
Elizabeth, I got to be honest, I was at an Ohio state game, which was the dominant thread in my text chains this weekend. But just -- just underneath that was this story. What are some of the details of the campaign Lively is alleging here?
ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: This story really has captivated the public and really feel ever since this film came out, fans of both of these actors and of the book on which this movie was based, were obsessed with the fact that these two stars were never photographed together during the press tour. That was the first clue that something had gone amiss here.
And now, according to Blake Lively, this was much more serious than just an on set feud. She alleges that she was subjected to a hostile work environment and sexual harassment by Justin Baldoni and another male producer on the film. She says that there were unwanted sexual comments made that some kisses within the film were prolonged when they weren't scripted to be, and she says that Justin Baldoni and this other male producer, who is named in this complaint, came into her trailer numerous times when she was undressed or breast feeding her newborn.
Now, aside from those accusations of sexual harassment, what's making this really a talking point in a really interesting case is that Blake Lively says that she was now subjected to retaliation. She says that Justin's team coordinated a sophisticated smear campaign behind the scenes. Now, Justin's team is denying this. They say in part, it is shameful that miss lively and her representatives would make such serious and categorically false accusations as yet another desperate attempt to fix her negative reputation. That is what her attorney told me over the weekend, Phil.
MATTINGLY: Do we know how bad the hit was to Lively's reputation in the wake of the initial reporting here?
WAGMEISTER: Look, make no mistake, there was not good press about her and there was a lot of negative chatter across social media. Now, of course, it is impossible to know. Is that because fans were taking issue with things that she said on her own during this press tour, there were quite a few unsavory videos that had repopulated, whether it was from the past or things that she said in promotion of this film. So it's impossible to know if people took issue with her or if it actually was this alleged smear campaign.
But the final point I want to make, Phil, is that in Blake Lively's legal complaint, her team says that they actually hired an outside contractor who tracked this and found that she was the subject of a targeted attack.
MATTINGLY: Elizabeth Wagmeister, great reporting as always, my friend. Thank you so much.
Well, whether you're traveling this week or staying home for the holidays, some stormy spots could impact your plans. That frosty forecast coming up next.
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[16:59:01]
MATTINGLY: In our national lead, a series of storms packing heavy, wet snow and freezing rain threatening holiday travelers.
CNN's meteorologist Chad Myers joins us now.
Chad, we're talking from the Rockies to the Northeast here.
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yeah, I mean, really, the Rockies are going to get snow, great for skiing, so are the Sierra.
But for the meantime, for the next, maybe, I would say 12 to 24 hours. Were looking at the northeast because a little clipper coming across Canada not going to do a lot, 1 to 2 inches of snow, but maybe an eighth of an inch of ice. That could be the problem by morning. So we're talking like 8:00 a.m.
That could slow down the airports. We may have to do a little bit of deicing across some of those big Northeast airports. This is what 8:00 a.m. looks like, at least with the computer model thinks, look, there's snow all the way from Boston through New York and all the way down to D.C. and around D.C. there could even be this mix into an icy event.
Be careful with the first step that you take out the door tomorrow, because it could surprise you on this little accumulation. Now, were not talking ice storm. We're not talking trees down. We're talking a thin glaze on your sidewalk, on your driveway, or maybe on your deck. Maybe you go out slowly with the dog. The first couple of steps to see what's out there. If it's just wet, we're fine.
A lot of people are going to be driving, so keep your eyes on the road and please clean the inside of your windshield. If you're driving into the sun. Helps a lot -- Phil.
MATTINGLY: Important points as always. Chad Myers, appreciate you, my friend.
You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of the lead, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts.
The news continues now on CNN with Wolf Blitzer, "THE SITUATION ROOM".
