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The Lead with Jake Tapper

VP Harris Certifies Trump Election; Trump Wants to Pass One Big, Beautiful Bill; January 6 Rioters Seek Trump Pardon; At Least 4 Killed In Massive Winter Storm System; Jason Carter Speaks About Grandfather's Life & Legacy; Watchdog Group Warned Of Problems In Afghanistan For Years. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 06, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead, I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, snow totals getting even higher as a second wave of this deadly winter storm starts to pick up. The area is keeping watch as nightfall sets in.

Plus, we're following the money. A man who tracked down where U.S. funding really went in Afghanistan. His warning for the incoming administration. President-elect Donald Trump dictates what role the U.S. will play in global conflicts.

And leading this hour, the wheel's already in motion for the new Trump agenda 14 days out from him taking office. Earlier here on CNN, Congress certified his election win and in 14 days, once he's officially back in office, Mr. Trump is calling on Congress to take up his plans on energy, the border, taxes, and much more all wrapped up into one single bill. Mr. Trump says it's his preference. How's that going to work? Good question.

Let's go straight out to a trio of CNN reporters who have been covering today's election certification on Capitol Hill, as well as the prosecutions that resulted from the violent attack on the Capitol during the last counting of electoral votes four years ago. First to you, CNN's Manu Raju, live on Capitol Hill. With President-elect Trump's election officially certified by Congress, Trump's now obviously looking ahead, getting his ambitious agenda passed.

It includes immigration, it includes closing the border, tax cuts, energy reform, it's what Trump is calling one big, beautiful bill. He also wants to get a ton of his nominees confirmed, some of them quite controversial. Does Trump have the votes for all of this?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It remains to be seen, Jake. The policy is gonna be enormously complicated and they have to deal with complex rules, particularly the United States Senate to try to do it in the process that allows them to pass this along party lines, not rely on Democrats, but they also have the slimmest of majorities, particularly in the House. So all of this raising major questions.

Now, what Trump wants to do is, you're right, he wants to put energy policy, immigration policy, a complex tax overall, also raising the national debt limit with spending cuts as well. All part of one big package. Any of those specific issues would divide Republicans about how to proceed on the specifics of the policy.

And then there's also division about the strategy. A lot of Senate Republicans are concerned about this big approach who want to break it up into smaller pieces, including the Senate Majority Leader John Thune. Now, one key Republican, Senator Lindsey Graham, who I caught up with earlier today, is also concerned about the big approach and says that the border needs to be secured first and not just sacrifice that for tax cuts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Is it a risk to put it all in one big bill?

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I think it's a risk to our country to delay border security. So if you're a tax cutting person, which I understand, and you're holding the border bill hostage, I think that's a dangerous thing.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON, SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The Senate has a little different opinion and perspective on reconciliation and what the wisest strategy is than the House, and that's okay. I wouldn't get too wound up about what the exact strategy is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: And Johnson there indicating that he plans to have a meeting with Senator Thune in the days ahead to hash out that strategy, downplaying the disagreements. But he has laid out an ambitious calendar, Jake. He wants to actually have this passed in the United States House by the first week of April. Wants it potentially by the president's desk by late April, early May. But in talking to Republicans alike, that is incredibly an enormous undertaking to try to get this through, Jake.

Not only because of the complex rules in the Senate, but also because this would require a two-step approach. They have to pass a budget resolution first in the House and Senate. Then they can actually try to pass a policy agenda. So a lot of questions about whether this can get done. But Donald Trump has weighed in, Jake. He says he wants it done quickly, but that's about to meet the realities of Capitol Hill, Jake.

TAPPER: CNN's Paula Reid, when we talk about the January 6 prosecutions, let's put this on the screen now if we can, 1,580 more of them rioters have been charged, 1,270 rioters have been convicted. About 310 cases remain pending. We should note on the convictions, a vast majority of these individuals pleaded guilty. What can you tell us about potential pardons that Mr. Trump keeps talking about?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, earlier today, Enrique Tarrio, he is a leader of one of the far-right groups. He actually asked Trump for a pardon. Now, he was sentenced to 22 years in prison after being convicted of seditious conspiracy for his role in January 6th. The judge who sentenced him called Tarrio the ultimate leader, the ultimate person who organized the right-wing group on that day. Today, the fourth anniversary of the attack, Tario's lawyer is asking President-elect Trump for a pardon.

Now, as you just put up on the screen, January 6th prompted the biggest prosecution the DOJ has ever done. But Trump's return to power is totally thrown into question. The future of all of these cases because he has promised pardons in the first day of his presidency. But he's sort of given these conflicting statements about who will get a pardon and whether there should be any exceptions for people who were especially violent.

Now, I've spoken with Trump advisors who are working on this and they tell me they definitely want to move quickly so there's not going to be like an individual application process that you usually see with clemency. They don't want this to take too long. One thing that they are weighing is possibly pardoning certain offenses, but it's complicated because even if someone's charged with assault.

[17:04:56]

There's a huge range of conduct that can be charged as assault and Tarrio is really the perfect example of the challenge here because he was directing the violence. He was not participating in it. So I'm told clemency is definitely coming for many of the people who participated in January 6th, which is unclear if everyone is either gonna get a pardon or a commutation.

TAPPER: Interesting. Donie O'Sullivan, you're live on Capitol Hill for us too. You were at an event earlier today where people were campaigning for the release of the J-6 convicts, the January 6 convicts. Tell us about the event.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: That's right Jake and a much quieter scene here tonight than there was this time four years ago when the city was about to go into a total lockdown under curfew as I'm sure you remember. The event today, a small amount of people, about a couple of dozen people who are family members, who have family members serving time for their actions on January 6, who are campaigning for those pardons that Paula mentioned.

These are some of the reddest of the MAGA base and they want Trump, one, to pardon their loved ones and let them out of prison and jail, and also to pardon everybody. They want absolute blanket pardon from the Proud Boys and the Oath Keepers on down with no exceptions.

And I think what we're going to see in the first few weeks of this Trump presidency is these J-6 families, as they're known within the MAGA universe, they won't stay quiet if Trump does not act quickly and does not act very decisively on pardoning all these folks. So these are some of his most die-hard supporters and they're hopeful, but they are nervous that he may not pardon everybody.

TAPPER: And Paula, you have some new reporting for us. Tell us about it. REID: That's right. We've just got a response from Judge Juan

Merchan. This is the judge overseeing the Manhattan hush money case where Trump was convicted of 34 counts of falsifying business records. And Trump has been trying to get the sentencing that is now scheduled for Friday delayed. The judge has just rejected that request. So unless another judge stays at the sentencing, as of now, Trump is scheduled to be sentenced this Friday in New York, though Trump did get a concession out of Judge Merchan last week who said, look, I know there are a lot of demands, both physical and mental on your time as president-elect, so you can appear virtually.

Jake, he's also made it clear that he's not going to sentence Trump to any jail time or really appears any penalties, but this is significant because earlier today the Trump team tried to get that sentencing delayed.

TAPPER: All right, Paula, Manu, Donie, thanks to all of you. I want to bring in someone who was at the Capitol on January 6th of 2021, retired U.S. Capitol Police Officer Harry Dunn. Harry, thanks so much for being here. So first of all, when you hear people doing this revisionist history, Donald Trump calling it a day of love, that congressman from Georgia saying it was just a bunch of grandmas taking a tour of the Capitol. Obviously, it's not true. What goes through your mind?

HARRY DUNN, FORMER U.S. CAPITOL POLICE OFFICER: Well, that's not all that it was. There were some grandmas walking through the Capitol.

TAPPER: Sure.

DUNN: Those aren't the people that are sitting in prison right now. Those are the people that got a fine, a probation. They're not hostages. They're not prisoners sitting in the D.C. Gulag jail. Those people that are sitting in jail, obviously like Paula said about Enrique Tarrio, the organizers, the ringleaders, and the people that committed the most violence toward police officers.

They attacked police officers; they savagely beat them. Those are the people that are in jail. So putting them back on the street, they were there on January 6th because Trump emboldened them to be there. Arguably the most powerful person in the world said go to the Capitol. So they're gonna do it. Now, if he pardons them, that arguably says, hey, the most powerful person said, it's okay, I can do this again and again and be forgiven as long as we do it in his name. And that sets a bad precedent going forward.

TAPPER: And how has your life changed, personally and professionally since that day?

DUNN: Well, I thought I was gonna retire as a Capitol police officer. I wanted to; I wanted the opportunity to fulfill my career there. I left because I felt like Donald Trump was a threat to our democracy. I did whatever I could do to try to stop him to make -- bring awareness to people. I ran for Congress, helped their campaign with Kamala Harris, just doing whatever he can. And now I just feel like I'm in this space now where I'm searching for

what's next. So many people's lives, like the last correspondent just said. People's families are out there. People are -- real life people, real life -- they have real consequences. And it's really unfortunate that so many people's lives were ruined because of what happened that day.

I'm not going to say mine's ruined, I just -- I pivoted. You know, I'm making a whole new approach at what's needed in this country. And democracy is worth fighting for, and I'll continue to do that.

TAPPER: What about the other officers with whom you served that day who were traumatized or physically wounded? You talked to them, tell us about them.

DUNN: I got some co-workers, actually, one of the most profound things that you look and see the snow outside said this snowstorm is four years too late. Imagine if this snowstorm was happening on January 6, 2021. How things would be different?

[17:10:00]

How many people would not have shown up in D.C.? But a lot of people, I saw footage from when they were walking escorting the votes down in the chamber today. And I just recognize so many of my co-workers who were there that day on January 6, 2021, and they're still there today and will be at the Capitol providing a safe haven for Donald Trump to be inaugurated, the person who's responsible for January 6th.

So, those are the most professional group of men and women that I know. They do their job proudly. And I'm proud to know most of them.

TAPPER: Did you ever talk to any -- because you were a Capitol Hill police officer, not just a Metropolitan police officer. So you were specifically charged with protecting --

DUNN: Yeah.

TAPPER: -- House Republicans, House Democrats, independents, whoever. And I'm wondering, did you ever say anything to any of the people who denied what happened that day?

DUNN: Sure. Shortly after when we were awarded the Congressional Gold Medal, Michael Fanon and myself went around to the 22, 21 members who voted against that. And we wanted to know why did they not think we were worthy of that recognition. We got various answers from -- they didn't like the language in it, it was referred to a temple and a synagogue. And then they said, well, why not acknowledge the other police officers from Minnesota and Portland and, you know.

There were few and far between the people that we actually got through to talk to. A lot of them said, hey, we'll call you back or we'll get back in touch with you. But it was just a bunch of political talk and giving us the run around. But I would have talked to anybody. This has been four years in the making and I've been attempting -- we had to beg, like I had to get national coverage for Kevin McCarthy to give us a meeting.

Michael Fanon called and got hung up on multiple times. And even some of the conservative networks that we tried to reach out to them, we wanted to talk to any and everybody. We begged Republicans and Mitch McConnell said do me a favor and vote against this Bipartisan Commission. We were lobbying for that Commission to happen. We met with Mitt Romney, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski. We met with those senators in the Senate, the Republicans, to get them to do the investigation. And when they didn't do it, that's when Nancy Pelosi formed into the January 6th Commission.

TAPPER: All right, Harry Dunn, thank you so much. Best of luck to you --

DUNN: Thank you.

TAPPER: -- and good to see you, sir The video from January 6, 2021, it's hard to forget, yet as mentioned, a sitting congressman earlier today described the event as a gathering of quote, "thousands of peaceful grandmothers." CNN caught up with the congressman. Take a listen to how he defended his words and some video just in. This is President Biden arriving moments ago in New Orleans, six days now after the horrific Bourbon Street terrorist attack that killed 14 people.

Biden is scheduled to meet with families of some of the victims. Also, we have some live images for you from Atlanta, Georgia where the late president Jimmy Carter lies in repose at the Carter Center. His grandson is going to join us ahead. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I do believe very strongly that America's democracy is only as strong as our willingness to fight for it. Every single person, their willingness to fight for it and respect the importance of our democracy. Otherwise, it is very fragile, and it will not be able to withstand.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That's outgoing Vice President Kamal Harris today after overseeing President-elect Trump's victory certification in Congress that's heard this afternoon. A stunning contrast from how the process played out four years ago in events some Republicans are now trying to completely rewrite, such as Republican Congressman Mike Collins from Georgia who was elected in 2022.

He called the violent siege on the U.S. Capitol a gathering of, quote, "peaceful grandmothers" who took a, quote, "self-guided albeit unauthorized tour of the U.S. Capitol building," unquote. That's obviously not what happened. Take a listen to what Congressman Collins said when pressed by CNN's Lauren Fox.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Are you sensitive to the fact that this was a scary day that many of the police officers on Capitol Hill were --

REP. MIKE COLLINS (R-GA): I am sensitive about how many people came up here to peacefully protest, and they got labeled the way that they did, including some grandmothers. And I understand if people broke the law that they need to be held accountable for, but to blanket people like they did, no, that's not fair.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: All right, here now is our panel and Tia, you also talked to Congressman Collins, who was one of yours from Georgia.

TIA MITCHELL, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, THE ATLANTA JOURNAL- CONSTITUTION: Yeah.

TAPPER: What is he doing? Look, obviously there were a lot of people here that didn't do anything violent and great. But nobody's talking about that. They're talking about the attack on the Capitol.

MITCHELL: So, and to quote, I also spoke to Congressman Hank Johnson, who's also from Georgia, a Democrat. And he said what -- he had not known about the tweet, but he said in general, what a lot of Republicans are doing is whitewashing January 6th by only focusing on those who were not violent, by only focusing on the grandmothers and the people just walking around aimlessly.

And so that's what you see from Mike Collins' tweet. It's a selective telling of what happened on January 6th that leaves out references. Now, again, when Lauren pushed him, when I pushed him, he said, yeah, there was violence and those people should be punished. But when you read his tweet, he doesn't talk about that. You've got to pull that out of him.

So a lot of Republicans don't want to talk about the violence instead, that whitewashing is to make January 6th look like an injustice upon those who entered the Capitol and maybe did nothing else.

TAPPER: Not only is the whitewashing predictable, I literally predicted it. Here's me four years ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I want people out there to remember how they feel right now as they watch these images live because there is going to be an attempt by the people who were part of this effort. President Trump, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, Senator Ted Cruz, Senator Hawley, et cetera. There is going to be an attempt to whitewash what's going on right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP) [17:20:04]

TAPPER: By the way, they didn't take any pressions. I mean, just paying attention in Washington, D.C. David, you're one that's been clear-eyed about what happened January 6. Why can't people just say that was a horrible day that should never happen again and move on?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, you look a lot younger.

TAPPER: I was gonna say I look a lot heavier.

URBANN: I don't know (inaudible). Listen, it was an abomination what happened. You don't beat police officers, okay. You don't do it. Just don't do it. America, you don't beat the police, okay. No matter if you're a Democrat, if you're a Republican, if you (inaudible), or you're BLM, you're January 6th guy, police are to be respected. Now, the point that you made earlier, there is an East Front story and there's a West Front story to this tale, right?

The people on one side of the Capitol were beating people with flag poles and fire extinguishers. And on the other side of the Capitol, the barriers are pulled aside and they were let in, right? And so I think that this is a tale of two protests right here and I think that what you're saying is the whitewashing is trying to take place on some of it. But those people that beat police officers, when Officer Fanon was dragged out of there.

TAPPER: Yeah.

URBAN: That's just important. It should be decried, but which also be decried because we shouldn't put -- there are a lot of people who are being prosecuted probably that should not have been prosecuted. They should get a speeding ticket been sent home. And I think that there needs to be a clear eyed look at this all. And if we really want to get past it, the people that beat the police should go to jail and the grandmothers that walked in or were let in should be let go, be pardoned.

TAPPER: On the subject of pardoning, I want to ask you, Meghan, the -- President Biden right now is talking about doing preemptive pardons to people who were on the January 6th committee, maybe even some others, maybe even people in his administration, who knows. We heard Senator Adam Schiff earlier today saying he's kind of uncomfortable with that, even though he, you know, theoretically might benefit just based on the committee. What do you think?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: I think that I understand why they're looking at it and I think that it's a smart thing to look at. It's a hard thing because then it says that they broke the law. And I don't think any of these people who did the January 6th committee actually broke the law. So I don't think that the people who participated are going to want the pardon.

But I do understand why they are looking at it, because some of the folks that Trump has nominated for these positions are looking for retribution. And I do think that the more Trump is looking backwards, the more people who participated in trying to find justice for the people on the East side or the West side, whatever side you want to say, I think that they are going to be persecuted publicly, if not, in the courts. And I do think it's not about their actual -- what they're actually going to do to them if they did break the law. They are going to have to go defend themselves and that will cost them a lot of money.

TAPPER: Millions.

HAYS: Yeah.

URBAN: Let me just be the voice of contradiction here. You know, I sat here at the beginning of the Trump administration in fear. I woke up every day, fear to getting a subpoena. I told my wife, if the FBI shows up at our door, here's what happens. Because of Russiagate. Yeah, because of

TAPPER: Oh, Russiagate.

URBAN: -- because of Russiagate, right? I was on the campaign. Tons of friends of mine got subpoenaed. And we know it was all a bunch of BS now. It cost Republicans, young Republican staffers, tens of thousands of dollars. He did absolutely nothing wrong. And so, you know, where's the justice for those folks' way back then? Where's the justice for all that? When Donald Trump was sworn in the first time, "The Washington Post" said we're gonna impeach. The resistance movement. Trump never got -- in that first two years --

TAPPER: Yeah.

URBAN: -- never got a chance to be president because of this Russiagate hoax that was perpetuated on his administration.

HAYS: A hundred percent, but knowing that it's still not right to do it again. So I don't think --

URBAN: I'm not advocating it. Somebody who's gone through it I'm saying it's a terrible thing and it shouldn't happen.

HAYS: A hundred percent.

TAPPER: Did you get subpoenaed?

URBAN: No, I didn't get subpoenaed.

TAPPER: So you didn't --

URBAN: It's amazing. Amazing. I didn't.

TAPPER: Okay. So, Tia, let me ask you because let's look a little forward now. Incoming White House Chief of Staff Susie Wiles was interviewed by "Axios." And this is part of what you had to say about wanting a drama-free White House, quote, "I don't welcome people who want to work solo or be a star." Obviously, in the first Trump White House, there were people who didn't fit that definition. MITCHELL: Yeah.

TAPPER: So she's going to have a task on her hands.

MITCHELL: Yeah. I thought it was interesting because part of me, when I saw the interview in, you know, God bless "Axios," and I go way back with Susie Wiles. What else is she going to say? I welcome chaos. I welcome drama. I welcome self-centered people to the White House. So in a lot of ways, she's saying the right things, and she's, again, challenging what I think Trump's team wants to challenge is that they will -- he will be more disciplined in this second administration. His team will be more disciplined and more focused.

The question is, what will be the reality that Susie Wiles faces and will she be able to keep a tight grip with all these personalities that Trump is surrounding himself with? Well, you know, we don't have to look any further than Elon Musk. I mean, she's saying she wants no stars, but Elon Musk literally is trying to make himself a player, not just in U.S. politics, but in so many other nations. And is that something that Susie Wiles thinks is helpful to Donald Trump? And if not, can she control that? That's the question.

URBAN: Now, listen, I think well be it the person that crossed Susie Wiles. Elon Musk, be wary. Be wary. Where's the camera? Which one we're looking at? Be wary, Elon.

[17:25:02]

TAPPER: Meghan, what do you think?

HAYS: Yeah, I know. I agree. I do think the people who are not being paid, who you cannot fire, how do you control those people? And I think that is going to be hard to do and I think every administration faces this. There's always those people who are out there on their own and want to write their books for afterwards and I do think she's going to have a tough (inaudible).

URBAN: Yeah, but this -- let's admit it. I mean, going into this administration right now feels completely different than it did in 1670, right? In 1670, there was a lot of infighting, a lot of different tribalism, right? A lot of -- it felt like "Survivor" a little bit. This is a lot smoother.

TAPPER: Yeah.

URBAN: It's the same hallmark of the campaign, it's now just transferring over to the administration.

TAPPER: Although, I mean, Elon Musk is uncontrollable.

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: You can't control him.

MITCHELL: Things are a lot smoother because Trump continues to remake the party in his own image. So he just has fewer people willing to stand up and question him --

TAPPER: True.

MITCHELL: -- and a lot more Republicans are trying to go along with, you know, this Trump juggernaut. So to me that's a big difference between the first administration and the second.

TAPPER: A hundred percent. Thanks one and all. And the backdrop of all the D.C. drama today, a major winter storm is blanketing the region. Four people have been killed. Thousands don't have electricity. We're tracking a second band of snow tonight and how the days ahead could bring even more dangerous weather. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:35]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, we are hearing there are more than 2,000 flights that have been canceled as a result of this current major winter storm. And there is more snow on the way. The system spanning 1,300 miles, leaving more than 300,000 homes in the dark without power in this bitter cold.

Let's get right back to CNN's Gabe Cohen as well as Chad Myers. And Gabe, to you first on the national mall in D.C. How is it out there? Has the snow started to pick back up?

GABE COHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, we've really seen it pick back up over the past couple hours. But even as it's getting dark, we're seeing a lot of people coming out here to the National Mall to experience what is a really rare snowstorm here in D.C. The biggest one we have seen in years.

There are at least, at least 5 inches of snow right now on the ground. We're expecting a couple more tonight. And that's why that -- that snow warning is still in effect here in D.C. as well as those emergency declarations here in Washington and in at least six other states. There is a lot of concern right now about safety in this region. That's why we're seeing a lot of school districts just go ahead and preemptively say they are going to stay closed tomorrow because even as clears -- crews clear all of this snow, Jake, they're concerned about ice and about those frigid temperatures.

TAPPER: Chad, how dangerous is this Arctic blast?

CHAD MYERS, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Yes, the air behind this is going to be the coldest we've experienced since last year. But we're not talking about historic cold temperatures. We're not talking about significant record breaking temperatures, Jake, but we're talking about our temperatures that are going to stay below freezing for a long time. It's going to be breaking water pipes. You're going to be very careful across the upper Midwest when temperatures are down to the single digits.

When this happens, Chicago or any town anywhere USA, the water pipes are going to be a real problem freezing, bursting. And then all of a sudden, entire apartment complexes may not have water for days on end because it's not going to thaw, naturally, Jake.

TAPPER: Gabe, what's the -- the message from officials that you're hearing as the storm keeps moving?

COHEN: Well, Jake, what we have repeatedly heard from officials from Kansas all the way here to the nation's capital is stay off the roads. They want people to stay home and stay safe. Roads are treacherous right now for travelers. And airports are also experiencing this. You mentioned the 2,000 cancellations. Well, we've just gotten word from Reagan Airport here in the D.C. area that they are going to be shutting down all of their runways tonight to try to clear any snow or ice that may be accumulating. It just speaks to what crews are dealing with right now. And the best thing you can do is stay home and stay out of your way so that everyone stays safe.

TAPPER: Chad, how unprecedented is it for some of these places to be dealing with this much snow and -- and these frigid temperatures?

MYERS: Oh, sure. I mean, once in a decade, once in every two decades for some of these areas. But the unprecedented part is the stripe. All the way from the Atlantic Ocean, it snowed on the beach and it snowed all the way back to Salina, Kansas. The Salina area out there picked up in some spots over 20 inches of snow. And then right along Louisville, that's the area that picked up again, 8 to 10 inches and it's still snowing in spots.

And then the wind, the snow going to pick back up for D.C., going to pick back up for Baltimore tonight, at least another 1 to 2 inches. It's dark. There is ice, as Gabe mentioned, and it's going to be slick by morning because as soon as the sun sets, all those things start to refreeze. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Chad Myers, Gabe Cohen, thanks to both of you.

Some live images now from the Carter Center at Emory University in Atlanta, Georgia. Mourners there are getting their last chance to -- to pay their last respects to the late former President Jimmy Carter. Tomorrow, Carter's remains will be transferred here to D.C.

[17:34:18]

Coming up next, Carter's grandson is going to join us. He's going to share some personal stories you may not have ever heard about his grandfather, the former president.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our national lead, James Earl "Chip" Carter, one of former President Jimmy Carter's children, sharing a touching moment from his childhood while eulogizing his late father, President Jimmy Carter, during Saturday's memorial service. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES EARL "CHIP" CARTER, PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER'S SON: And so the next morning he came into my room and said, we were on Christmas vacation. He said, you -- you have your Latin book? I said, yes. He said, let me have it. He went to work at Carter's warehouse. When he came home that night, we spent an hour and a half him teaching me Latin that he had learned from my book that day.

He did that every day of Christmas vacation. And the first day of the school year after Christmas, I went to my teacher and asked her if she'd let me take the final over again that she had given us the midterm test. And she said yes. So after school that day, I took that test and I made 100. I owed it to my father who spent that kind of time with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We have some live pictures of people paying their respects to former President Jimmy Carter in Atlanta right now. Tomorrow, the 39th president will come here to Washington, D.C. for the very last time, where he will lie in state at the U.S. Capitol. Let's talk about President Carter with his grandson, Jason Carter, as -- is our want, as we've been doing now for years. Jason, it's good to see you. As I said to you via text on the day he passed, my deepest condolences. To many of us, he was the 39th president of the United States and perhaps the greatest former president in the history of the United States.

[17:40:12]

But obviously to you he was grandpa. And I want to talk about that side of him. Let's bring up this photo of you two together at a baseball game, a Braves game, and the Phillies. Hopefully the Phillies won, but I hope you had a good game. You were a Georgia State Senator. I know it's one of your favorite photos of you and your grandfather. What was he like as a grandfather?

JASON CARTER, PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER'S GRANDSON: You know, he -- he was great, Jake. And -- and you know the one thing he would probably complain about -- about you is that you're a Phillies fan, right? I -- I mean I think his -- his love for the Braves, you know, those -- those things that we shared that are the same as so many other people, right? Like he took me fishing all the time, taught me how to clean a catfish, taught me how to tie a fly, you know, walked around in the woods with us and, you know, picked wild plums on the farm.

I mean those things that anybody can do with their grandfather, you know, those were the things that we cherished the most. And it's -- it's amazing on these last few days to sort of for my family to see how much we share him with the world. But we always still had him as -- as papa.

TAPPER: So I remember your dad as president. I was seven when he was elected. And I also remember his -- his presidency came also at the time of like Southern Rock was big, Lynyrd Skynyrd, the Allman Brothers. They coincided. And there was this great essay in "The Wall Street Journal" last year or two years ago rather titled, How the Allman Brothers Band Helped Make Jimmy Carter President. And you see him there as a -- as a candidate wearing an Allman Brothers Band t- shirt. How did music shape him? Were there any songs or -- or music that -- that you shared with him? CARTER: Oh yes. I mean look, we shared the Allman Brothers. I remember, you know, coming on the way to spring break when I was in college and I was like, hey guys, we're halfway down to Florida. Do you want to stop at my grandparent's house and spend the night? And so we pulled in the planes and my -- my -- my buddies from college and were all sitting in there. And at 7:45 in the morning he starts blaring Allman Brothers to get us up out of bed, right?

I mean it -- it's just, you know, just both -- both to make us feel lazy and also to let us know he was cool. But, you know, I went to Willie Nelson concerts with him. I went to Bob Dylan concerts with him. We shared a ton of music together. And he's -- he was a cool guy then. And -- and he stayed that way for a long, long time.

TAPPER: There's another interesting fact about -- about President Carter. In '79, he installed solar panels on the White House roof. He really -- he -- he -- he didn't just talk the talk, he walked the walk when it came to energy and the environment.

CARTER: Look, I mean, he was basically a climate warrior in the 1970s, right? I mean, he was talking about limiting our reliance on fossil fuels. He was expanding renewables. I mean, that -- that placing of solar panels on the White House, if you read the speech from that day, you could almost give it again today about the importance of renewable energy and solar.

It was -- it was really far ahead of its time, or actually, it was probably on time. We just didn't get it done until -- until recently. So, you know, it's -- it's something that matters to him. And those unfortunately, those solar panels are now a museum piece. But I think there's a lot could be said for those moments. Go ahead. I'm sorry.

TAPPER: Absolutely. Yes. No, I'm sorry. So you're chairman of the board at the Carter Center. I don't know if you knew this. I was an intern at the Carter Center when I was in college. I was chasing a girl at Emory, but don't be too impressed. But what is your hope instilling the legacy of not just your grandfather, but your grandmother, former First Lady Rosalynn Carter?

CARTER: Well, look, I think the Carter Center is this embodiment of that legacy, right? They took that time and, you know, they relied on people. They were -- I was an intern, too, so we share that in common. But it's -- it's a -- it's a place where they built on their -- their -- their belief and the -- the way they lived out their faith and their love for the world put together to tackle projects that other people weren't tackling, and they ended up, you know, having programs all over the world.

Today, there's 3,500 employees at the Carter Center, only a couple hundred in Atlanta, and the rest are scattered throughout villages and, you know, some of the poorest parts of the world changing their own communities the same way that Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter did. And that -- that legacy that you're a part of as an intern and that all these other people are a part of, you know, one of the great aspects of them is that's going to continue long after their physical presence is -- is gone. TAPPER: Lastly, I was really floored by the expressions of admiration by some very, very conservative Republicans after his death. I don't know what your response was.

CARTER: Look, I mean, we have really been gratified both by sort of the -- the volume of -- of the outpouring of love and support, but also just the cross section of everyone. I mean, to your point, we -- when his funeral procession left Plains and traveled through middle Georgia up through to Atlanta, it was all kinds of people from all kinds of political persuasions.

You know, some of them standing, you know, on the side of the road next to their pickup trucks, saluting as it went by. It's been amazing to see how sort of the human being transcended whatever politics or political differences they had. And in this moment in our country, that idea of transcending those politics, it just -- it just gives me hope and certainly pride and excitement.

[17:45:18]

TAPPER: For anybody at home, if you -- if you want to see how much a country's changed since President Carter was elected in '76, go Google what the electoral map looked like in 1976 when you have deep red California and a swath of blue from Texas through the south for President Carter. Jason, you -- it's always a pleasure to have you on. Our deepest condolences as I -- as I've said to you. You got to have a pretty good grandpa and you got to have him for a long, long time.

CARTER: I did. And I appreciate all the outpouring from you and everybody else to celebrate him.

TAPPER: Thank you so much. Good to see you, Jason.

Coming up next, a warning --

CARTER: You too.

TAPPER: -- for the incoming President Donald Trump as he gets ready to decide what role the U.S. is currently to play in war zones.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:36]

TAPPER: And we're back with our World Lead. Later this year, congressional created -- congressionally created watchdog group is going to release its final report detailing what went wrong in the more than 20 years in Afghanistan and what could have been done differently to secure a better future for the Afghan people as well as eliminating the threat of terrorism.

The man who leads that group is the special inspector general for Afghan -- Afghanistan Reconstruction, John Sopko, who's out with a preview of sorts detailing a major failure in a new op-ed in "The New York Times" called America, Afghanistan and the Price of Self- Delusion. And John Sapko joins me now. And John, I've been following your -- your reports, your inspector general reports for -- for years.

In your -- your op-ed you write, quote, to win promotions and bigger salaries, military and civilian leaders felt they had to sell their tours of duty, deployments, programs and projects as successes, even when they were not, unquote. So what is the degree to which some of these failures were -- were driven purely by greed versus the army spirit of, yes, we can do that, yes, we can accomplish it? Do you know what I mean, like, is it one or the other? Is it just the greed?

JOHN SOPKO, SPECIAL INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR AFGHANISTAN RECONSTRUCTION: No, it's far more than just the greed. I think it's you -- you hit upon it with the sort of gung ho attitude that our military has and that's something we respect. But the problem was that the people in Washington and particularly Congress and the American people didn't hear the truth.

And -- and it wasn't just the military. I mean, the State Department, USAID, the -- the ambassadors, you know, they're telling us that, oh, we knew 20 years ago, 10 years ago, 15 years ago, it was going to fail. But I don't recall hearing anybody in a senior leadership area over those years actually telling the American people there was a pretty good probability we were going to lose.

And right up to the bitter end, you had statements being made by the White House and by State and by Defense Department, which were totally untrue. It -- it defies the reality on the ground. So it's -- it's not just money, it's the -- we have -- we have disincentivized telling the truth. You're not going to get a promotion. You're not going to get a new contract IF you actually say what's actually been happening.

TAPPER: It's a problem not just in the military, we should note, or even in the U.S. government. I mean, corp -- incorporations it's the same problem. The -- the whale that spouts gets harpooned, as they say. And you write about this never ending cycle of spending and the returning money was not an option. You described the perception of equating spending with success and surplus is a failure. That's -- that's a real problem.

SOPKO: Oh yes, oh yes. I mean, we gave our people in Afghanistan really a box of broken tools. Our personnel system is broken, our -- our contracting system is broken, our incentive program is broken. And no one's held accountable. I mean, you know, check your -- your clips, Jake. I mean, how many people lost their job for, you know, the failures in Afghanistan? How many people lost their job for, you know, purchasing the wrong airplane or building the wrong building that wasn't used?

I mean, we identified some of the people who should have been held accountable, but particularly with DoD, they said, oh well, that's not an issue. We -- we can't -- we can't do anything about that. Airplanes that didn't fly, buildings that melted, buildings that were built because 64,000 square foot headquarters down at Camp Leatherneck that nobody wanted.

The commander didn't want it, but the general who OK'd it said I got to spend the money because it was in a supplemental appropriation, cost millions of dollars. I mean, it's ridiculous what we've really created. And the fear is this is going to happen again unless we do something about it.

[17:55:11]

TAPPER: John, come back when you file your final report. We'd love to talk more about this. It's a -- it's a real tragedy. Thanks so much. We'll be right back.

SOPKO: Thank you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Our last leads start with the Health Lead. The Louisiana Department of Health today reports the first human death due to bird flu in the United States. The patient was more than 65 years old and reportedly had underlying medical conditions. Officials say the overall risk to the public remains low as of now, but people who work on farms or keep chickens or other birds are at higher risk.

Also in our Health Lead, Ted Turner, business mogul and the founder of CNN, is recovering from pneumonia. A spokesman says the 86-year-old is now doing well. He was just moved from the hospital to a rehabilitation facility. We certainly hope Mr. Turner is back home on his Montana ranch in no time.

[18:00:07]

In our National Lead, the must see video of the day. While the snowstorm has paralyzed much of D.C., some are enjoying it. How about this? The two giant pandas at the National Zoo rolling around relishing in their first snowfall since they arrived here in the U.S. in October. Those pandas make their public debut at the zoo later this month.

The news continues now on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. I'll see you tomorrow.