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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Hurst Fire Burns 671 Acres, 10 Percent Contained; Rep. George Whitesides, (D-CA), Is Interviewed About California Wildfires; Nearly 180,000 L.A. County Residents Under Evacuation Orders. Aired 5-6:00p ET

Aired January 09, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[17:02:17]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is CNN Breaking News.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We're going to start this hour with breaking news out of Southern California where we are witnessing the most destructive wildfires to hit the Los Angeles County area in recent history. The Palisades and Eaton fires are two of the five major wildfires and they are still, as of this moment, zero percent contained. Both of those fires have scorched nearly 30,000 acres.

Los Angeles county sheriff described the destruction in some areas is, quote, "like a bomb was dropped on them." CNN's Anderson Cooper is live in Topanga near the Palisades area.

Anderson, tell us what you're seeing.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: Yes. So we've moved a little bit from the position we talked to in the last hour. We are still in Topanga. We're basically just following the fire. We're now in this residential community that firefighters are working very hard to protect the buildings which have not burned here at this point.

I just want to point out a couple things. There's active fire there on that ridge. We have seen -- I took some video just about five minutes ago, which I think you have, which you could play, of two helicopters coming, dropping water on that location. But as you can -- and I believe a number -- a couple of helicopters had already dropped water on that location, which is just, you know, it's a sight for sore eyes in a community like this to see water. And it seems to douse the fire at first.

But as you can tell, Jake, that now has restarted. So you've had at least two helicopters dropping water just on that spot fire, but that has restarted. So they're going to have to try to bring in more assets. Other thing I want to point out, you have fire crews on that ridgeline. Those are -- they're wearing orange uniforms.

Those are inmates who have volunteered to learn firefighting skills. They're playing an integral role here as well. I mean, it is all hands on deck. This battle has been joined today. And I got to tell you, being up in Topanga, the number of helicopters coming, putting water on the ground, putting retardant on the ground is remarkable.

But this is still, as you said, zero percent contained, very active. Look over here, this other ridge, you see some of the houses there. There's obviously fire there. You see the large smoke. So there are these -- you know, every ridge you go over, every road you go down, you'll suddenly see blue skies, then all of a sudden it's shrouded in smoke.

I want to bring in Captain Robert Foxworthy with Cal Fire. Just talk a little bit about what is going on here. Obviously, the attempt is to protect these houses. This is the northern edge of the Palisades fire.

CAPTAIN ROBERT FOXWORTHY, CAL FIRE: Absolutely. So we're above the community of Topanga, and this is a more populated area next to the state park. So, what you see in the background with the hand crews and the dozers we saw earlier and the aircraft, they're all working together to stop the progress of the fire. We use the aircraft to cool the intensity and slow the advance, and then those hand crews can come in along with the dozers and put line around the fire to stop that progress. So basically, it's all the different pieces of equipment working in unison to try and stop the fire and keep it from moving into more populated areas.

[17:05:27]

COOPER: I just want to show, Chris (ph), if you can. So, look, let's watch this drop. Here's another helicopter coming in. Looks like they're not going to be dropping on that area just yet. But again, it's remarkable to see just the number of helicopters still in the air.

Can you just explain what that crew is doing? Because they're essentially building a road there. Clearing a road.

FOXWORTHY: Yes. So if you see there was most likely a large road put in by the bulldozers previously, then what we'll do is we'll have our hand crews coming and thin along the edges. So, basically, if the fire was to advance and come up to that edge, it's successful for the crews to hold that fire from jumping the edge, and it lowers the intensity of that fire so it doesn't flare up right on --

COOPER: On a fire on a location which I didn't even know was a fire, just to our right. So that's the situation here, Jake. It is very active, very dynamic, and there's a lot of crews on the ground.

TAPPER: All right, Anderson Cooper in Topanga near the Palisades area, thank you, and stay safe.

I want to get right to CNN's Natasha Chen, who joins us from an evacuation shelter in Pasadena.

Natasha, I understand you just spoke with a woman whom firefighters had to remove from her home. NATASHA CHEN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, she told us that her house, which is more than 100 years old, or was more than 100 years old, was part of a neighborhood where all her neighbors had evacuated. She just really wanted to do everything she could to protect it. I think we have some images that she shared with us to show you of the flames just approaching her property. And she was very emotional in describing how she had built her entire life here. This was three decades that she spent in this house.

And she tried for hours to do what she could, but firefighters ultimately said, you have to go now. She said they allowed her to get into her own car to bring her pet with her and follow them out of the way. And of course, hours later, she found out that her house burned to its foundation. There's nothing left. And that is a similar story to what we're hearing from other people here.

And she is telling us about what was left behind, that she cannot recover even if she rebuilt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAYA REYNAGA, EVACUATED DUE TO WILDFIRES: Everything I've ever worked for my entire life was there. My work equipment, my brother's ashes, my daughter's momentums, my keepsakes, my deceased mother's photos and belongings that she passed down to me. It's all I have. I have nothing. I can't even teach.

And I'm a first responder. I teach people to save lives, and I couldn't even save my house. And I'm just shattered. I'm broken for my family, the community.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CHEN: This is what so many people across Los Angeles are feeling right now, this shock, just having their lives completely shattered. She mentioned, you know, her job is teaching first responders how to do CPR and such, and she feels like she couldn't save her own house that was right there. It's so difficult to hear these stories.

We also took a brief tour inside the shelter with an escort from the city here. Twelve hundred people currently staying at this Pasadena location, mostly coming from the Altadena fire in the northeast part of the metro area. Even more people, hundreds more are coming here during the day to try and just get some resources, even if they have somewhere else to stay tonight. That person that you just saw, she actually came here just looking for some underwear and socks because she has absolutely nothing with her. She was -- the clothes on her were actually her nephew's sweatpants and sweatshirt.

So, just a lot of people in need, a variety of resources here, and just a lot of volunteers hoping to help. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Natasha Chen, thank you so much. Stay safe.

Let's bring in Congressman George Whitesides of California. His district includes Santa Clarita, other parts of the San Fernando Valley, which is where the Hurst fire is burning right now. That fire is about 10 percent contained.

Congressman, first give us a sense of how hard your district has been impacted and what sources you need.

REP. GEORGE WHITESIDES (D-CA): Well, Jake, we are, I think, in a relative sense, lucky that the amazing firefighters in Los Angeles County have been able to largely contain the Hurst fire. We are in relatively good shape. It has stayed on the north side of the local highway.

[17:10:16]

We are very concerned that the fire could move to the other side of the highway. So far that has not happened, but obviously we still have several days to go in this high wind event.

TAPPER: You've talked to the first responders. What are they telling you?

WHITESIDES: They're telling us that this is one of the most horrific events that they've ever experienced. Many of them, this is the most horrific event that they've seen. The amount of resource that they have called in is hugely, you know, welcomed by folks on the ground. We still need more, but, you know, right now we're getting to the levels that we need and I think, you know, we have a long road ahead to rebuild Los Angeles County.

TAPPER: You participated in a press conference earlier today involving a number of L.A. County and city officials, including the Los Angeles Mayor, Karen Bass. I want our viewers to hear how Mayor Bass addressed a reporter's question explaining the city's lack of preparation and the city's response. Take a listen.

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MAYOR KAREN BASS, (D) LOS ANGELES: We will absolutely do an evaluation to look at what worked, what didn't work, and to correct or to hold accountable anybody, department, individual, et cetera. But my focus right now is on the lives and on the homes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you believe that Los Angeles County and Los Angeles City had the resources, had the plan, had the wildfire prevention measures needed to handle such a seismic disaster?

WHITESIDES: Well, look, I would make two points. Number one, the event that we are going through still is an event of historic scale. The wind event that we have experienced is, you know, an incredibly rare event. So, you know, Jake, when these fires start hitting in an environment where you have 80 to 100 mile an hour winds, there's almost nothing that humans can do to stop that flame front right?

Now, are there things that could be done differently? Perhaps. But I think the main thing is to stay focused on helping folks today because these fires are not out yet. And then we need to start a national conversation about how we're going to preserve our Western communities in the face of growing fire risk in a world in which global warming is going to make these catastrophic fires more frequent and more intense over time.

TAPPER: One of the things, we've been interviewing survivors of these blazes now for several days. My cousin and his family are among them. They had to flee their home in Palisades. He's got three kids. One of them is in high school, the high school is burned.

One of them is in junior high, the junior high is partially burned. What happens to these communities, to these families after the fires are contained? Obviously, getting these fires out, contained, job number one, making sure that these people have a place to go in terms of shelters. I understand that, but I'm sure there are discussions right now about what comes next. And just speaking on behalf of all these people, what will come next?

WHITESIDES: Your phrase earlier about refugees is not misplaced. We've seen it in Santa Rosa, we've seen it in Lahaina, we've seen it in Marshall. We have an entire communities that are displaced now. And you are going to see terrible dislocations for those families as we try to, you know, provide the housing that we need to keep these folks in the same geographic area. Many folks will be forced to move outside of their home area to find new schools, to find new places to live while we rebuild these areas.

This is a multiyear of recovery effort. And, you know, we just need to make sure that these resources are going in as quickly as possible and we're knocking down any barriers to rebuilding quickly. But there is no doubt that it will take months for these families, months and years for these families to recover.

TAPPER: I guess my question is more not theoretical, but I'm grasping for words, but like, is there going to be a Palisades in the future? I mean, is it going to be rebuilt?

WHITESIDES: I think the answer is yes. But I think what you're pushing on is a crucial issue, which is that around the country and around the world, we have homes in places that are going to have increased risk from natural disasters that are driven in part by climate change. And we need to put in place both the mechanisms to keep those places relatively safer. We have a set of things that we know we need to do with wildland fire risk places like dealing with fuels management, hardening communities, increasing technology to deal with, you know, the rapid onset of these fires. You're going to have a different set of things in Florida for hurricanes and then you're going to have a third set of things related to the insurance behind these communities.

[17:15:35]

This is a national discussion because it is something that involves millions of people and literally hundreds of billions of dollars of value. And so that's a big conversation. And that's frankly part of the reason why I ran for Congress because I think if we don't step up to this issue honestly, what we're going to be dealing with is more paradises, more fires that destroy communities like we're seeing in paradise -- sorry, in the Palisades. And it's going to be a very tough time ahead for our country.

TAPPER: Congressman George Whitesides of California, thank you so much for spending your time and answering our questions. We really appreciate it.

WHITESIDES: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: CNN is compiling a list of resources where if you have the means, you can help the many, many thousands of victims of these fires who will need financial assistance. It's called Impact Your World. To find it, go to cnn.com/impact, cnn.com/impact. You can also donate by texting the word wildfires to the number 707070, 707070.

We have some new images from actress and singer Mandy Moore after she returned to her home in Altadena, California, after evacuating yesterday. She said parts of her house were destroyed and every house on her street is gone. What the response to these fires could look like in the weeks and months to come. Up next, I'm going to talk to a woman taking shelter with her parents, grandparents, aunt and uncle, all in a one bedroom home. Stay with us.

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[17:21:08]

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going out. There's no water. There's no (BLEEP) water.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We're back with the breaking news internationally. The sound of anguish and frustration for our next guest's family seeing their home in the Pacific Palisades just go up in flames. Joining us now is Caitlin Doran, whose entire family is now sheltering together with her in her one bedroom residence after her parents and her grandparents and her aunt and uncle all lost their homes.

Caitlin, how are you feeling? How's your family coping?

CAITLIN DORAN, EVACUATED DUE TO WILDFIRES: We are -- I mean, I'm in my bedroom right now, but I hear lots of laughter in the living room. The boys actually just got back from checking out the Palisades and seeing what's left. So they just spent some time there. So we're all getting updated, but I feel like we're all in the same boat and just happy to all be together. Quite a few of us in here, but we're happy to be together.

TAPPER: Well, I'm glad they're all safe. Your family's lived in the Palisades for almost a century. Tell us about the community that you grew up in.

DORAN: The Palisades. Growing up there is like your ideal situation. I mean, it's a small town in a big city. Everybody knows each other. It is so close knit.

I mean, my friends from elementary school are my friends now. Our parents are friends. Everybody is -- you know it's just a very community driven area. And my family, they've lived there since the 1930s. So we know -- you know, we know all the families, we know everyone getting affected.

Everybody's house that we know so far is no longer there. It's just, it's devastating.

TAPPER: What part of the Palisades are you from?

DORAN: We are in the Alphabet Streets, the 1100 block. So, you know, close to Chautauqua, closer to the Santa Monica Mountains that unfortunately just abs that took over yesterday. We were watching the smoke from about 10:30 in the morning to about 3:30 when we decided that it was time to evacuate the 175 pound tortoise tiptoe that we have. And once that started we just -- I mean we had hoses out at 8:00 p.m. My 84-year-old grandfather did what he could to protect his property but we ran out of water and they just -- the boys that just got back from checking out the Palisades, there's a ton of firemen there but there's no water.

TAPPER: Yes.

DORAN: So they're just watching the rest of it. There's where -- I mean, everyone's doing what they can but resources are limited beyond belief.

TAPPER: Yes.

DORAN: We were in like I said, the upper Alphabet Streets and we didn't have one fire truck from 10:30 a.m. until my dad left at midnight.

TAPPER: I asked because my cousin David (ph), his family, they live in the Highlands and they had to evacuate and flee too. They feel like -- I think they think their home is gone as well. We heard --

DORAN: Highlands is pretty 50-50, though.

TAPPER: Yes, right? They're not sure.

DORAN: Crossing fingers for you guys.

TAPPER: Yes, they're not sure yet. We heard the heartbreak --

DORAN: Yes.

TAPPER: -- from your dad in that video and you wrote on GoFundMe quote, "In an instant three generations of memories and everything we worked so hard to build were gone. It's not just property, right. It's a home, it's memories.

DORAN: Right.

TAPPER: It's a world.

DORAN: Absolutely. And the house that I grew up in, 11:18 Iliff, it's actually across the street from my grandparents house where my mom grew up. So, we have my uncle three blocks down. I mean we are smack like we are right there. So we got three generations in the house right now.

[17:25:04]

We have six dogs including three 75 pound pit bulls. We have 175 pound tortoise, my boyfriend, a couple of my friends that evacuated, my roommate. You know, we've got a full house. But everybody has been so supportive and I mean, given the situation that we're in, I feel like to see the community come together already, it hasn't even been a full, you know, three days and it seems like people are really putting their nose to the ground and figuring out what these next steps are.

TAPPER: Well, Caitlin, stay in touch with us. God bless you and your grandparents and your parents and your aunt and uncle and your boyfriend and your friends and the pit bulls and your 175 pound tortoise. And thank you so much and I'm sorry this is happening to you all.

DORAN: Have a good day, you guys. Stay safe too.

TAPPER: Los Angeles officials say the Palisades fire is one of the most destructive natural disasters in the city's history. We're going to go back on the ground there with another incredible damage report, that's next.

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[17:30:33]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Back with our breaking news International Lead. We've been telling you about the five major fires burning in and around Los Angeles, and we're now just learning of a six, a six fire. It started in the Angeles National Forest. That's where the Eaton fire is also burning. It's called the Creek fire, the sixth one.

Officials say it is moving at a moderate pace, which is not as fast as some of the other recent fires. Let's go now to CNN's Nick Watt, who's on the ground in the Palisades area where the fire there is still officially considered zero percent contained. Nick, tell us what the damage you're seeing.

NICK WATT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, I would say in parts of the Palisades, the damage is absolutely total. Spike (ph), if you pull out, you can see we're on a residential street, what used to be a residential street. Nothing left. Steel beams buckled under the heat.

That's a old Land Rover, as old as I am. So that's vintage. That's gone. All of these houses are gone.

What we've been noticing, Jake, is, and this is not scientific, this is anecdotal, the houses that are still standing tend to be the newer builds. Now, arson investigators are now on the ground here in the Palisades, Jake, trying to figure out if this was intentionally started. They have a dog that will sniff for accelerants.

As for the death toll here, no confirmed deaths yet in the Palisades, but the sheriff's department still needs to come in with those dogs, those cadaver dogs. Jake?

TAPPER: Have you seen any residents trying to go back to their neighborhood to see what's left of their home, what's left of their community?

WATT: Yes, we have. And some of them are angry. Some of them are asking questions, why wasn't there water in the hydrants? We saw Governor Gavin Newsom accosted on the street. He did not want to be there.

This woman was saying, why was there no water? Why was there no water? Another guy said that he only built his house two or three years ago, so he's hoping that he'll be able to rebuild quicker because the plans were approved so recently.

Somebody else moved into a house that his grandparents first bought after the Second World War. Generations have lived in it, raised their kids. He was raising his kids in it. It is no more. He's picking through the ash looking for anything that he can find.

Also, Palisades High School here wasn't due back in session until Tuesday. So there are a lot of people still on vacation. I spoke to, on FaceTime last night, to people in Thailand and showed them what was left of their home, which was nothing.

Now, the good news is the wind is a little lower now. The planes have come in. They're going to try and contain this fire a little bit before the winds pick up again. You know, last night when we first heard those planes, it was a very reassuring sound because you know that is a huge, huge help in trying to fight these flames.

Wind going to pick up again next week, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nick Watt in the Pacific Palisades, thank you. Stay safe. Much more ahead on these destructive fires. We're going to squeeze in a quick break. We'll be right back.

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[17:37:37]

TAPPER: Live pictures right now from Plains, Georgia. This is a private service for the family of the late President Jimmy Carter after his official state funeral here in Washington, DC earlier today. Shortly after this, the family will hold a procession through the town of Plains, Georgia before the president's interment at the Carter residence.

There were several notable moments earlier today as the rare event of all five living US presidents gathering at the National Cathedral to remember President Carter at the service. Perhaps we shouldn't read too much into any of the body language or what we saw since this was a funeral, and the tone was somber and individuals were quiet.

But what we could witness with our eyes, President-elect Trump and Vice President Harris were in the same room together for the first time since Trump beat her in the election, the results of which were the vice president certifying his election victory just a few days ago. The two did not shake hands.

It also, again, I don't want to read too much into it, but it didn't seem like a particularly warm welcome between Vice President Harris and her husband and President Biden and his wife. President Biden, of course, just said to USA Today that he would have been able to beat Trump if he had been the nominee.

There was this remarkable handshake, however, between Donald Trump and his former vice president. This after Pence said he couldn't endorse his former boss during the last election. Not to mention, of course, what happened four years ago on January 6, 2021.

And to be a fly on the wall, to hear what former Presidents Obama and soon to be President Trump were saying one to another during their lengthy conversation. Here now to talk about these moments or more are former Trump White House Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin, Democratic Strategist Karen Finney, and former Capitol Hill Communications Staff and Republican Strategist TW Arrighi. Am I pronouncing it correctly?

TW ARRIGHI, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Nailed it.

TAPPER: Oh, my goodness gracious.

ARRIGHI: One of the rare ones.

TAPPER: Alyssa, what was your reaction to that moment with Trump and Pence shaking hands the first time they've been in the same room for four years?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, can I just say, Jake, it's actually remarkable that in this fraught political moment, in a divisive time that we can get all living presidents together peacefully. A lot of nations on earth would not be able to do that. So I think it's a testament to the American spirit and the fact that we move forward despite things that are often challenging and divisive.

[17:40:10]

But I was paying close attention. Mike Pence, of course, was going to shake Donald Trump's hand. He's a class act. I think he sees it as his duty to be a stabilizing force, similar to how he showed up to Joe Biden's inauguration after January 6th.

I did notice that his wife, Karen Pence, did not stand up and greet the Trumps. And I don't -- I would certainly not speak for her, but I think any wife who children and herself were in danger with her husband on January 6, that would be challenging to shake the hand of the person responsible for that. But I think it was a good moment for Mike Pence to show that he can be the bigger person in this situation.

TAPPER: Karen, what did you make of the -- again, it's a funeral or at a distance.

KAREN FINNEY, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Yes.

TAPPER: But still, I would have expected a warmer greeting between the Bidens and Doug Emhoff, and Vice President Harris, no?

FINNEY: Although it's not like they don't see each other. I mean, who knows, they may have already been in a hold together before they came out. We don't know.

But, you know, I was more struck, actually, Jake, both from the ceremony and the images, by the arc of history, the idea that you had Pence, who just made those amazing comments about how he had thought about Al Gore in those moments four years ago, and the very moving tribute from Gerald Ford, talking about his relationship with Jimmy Carter, in my experience --

TAPPER: Read by his son, Steven --

FINNEY: Read by his son --

TAPPER: Yes.

FINNEY: -- Steven Ford, so beautiful. And when you think about the impact that these individuals, the opportunity that they have to have an impact on the world, on our country, on human beings. It was just -- I was sort of more struck by that and sort of the opportunity that they have when they lead.

And, you know, I agree with Alyssa. I mean, I think for as rough and tumble as a campaign can be, the fact that they were gathered together. I hope Americans take some comfort in that. Even though, you know, look, tomorrow we'll be talking about whatever the latest crazy thing Donald Trump said or criticizing, you know, what something Democrats did.

But this was a really important moment. And again, this idea that how will history remember you.

TAPPER: Yes.

FINNEY: We, you know, and I was trying to think about what would we be saying a hundred years from now or 50 years from now about any of these men.

TAPPER: Yes, because it's weird. There's going to be those same state funerals for all five of them.

FINNEY: Yes, yes.

TAPPER: What was going through your mind? ARRIGHI: Well, look, tough, tough campaign. You know, I was struck by

the Obama and Trump conversations quite drastically, because I think we sometimes look, especially me at politics, like hockey, right? You see guys drop gloves, chuck knocks (ph), and then two hours later they're having beers at the bar. And you're like, what?

I think there's other times that other folks look at that and say, hey, wasn't Barack Obama the one who called Donald Trump a great threat to democracy? Wasn't Trump, according to some Democrats, Hitler? And they say, well, where's -- there's something going on here.

But I agree with you, Karen. It does bring me some solace that we are -- that people can still get together in a polite way. And as a presidential history buff, it brought me great joy to see all those men together, politely sitting there.

TAPPER: Yes. And, Alyssa, I don't know what you were thinking, but I really personally was immensely touched by the relationship between Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter. You know, they had a very bitter campaign. All these campaigns are bitter, right? Obama, Romney, whatever. They're always bitter, some more bitter than others.

But Gerald Ford and Jimmy Carter actually legitimately becoming friends, almost reluctantly, after stuck on this plane together to and from the Anwar Sadat funeral in 1981, and just really became very close. And it would be nice to think of that being possible again.

GRIFFIN: Well, it's a reminder that the presidency is bigger than any one man or woman who may someday hold it. And the stakes of the office, the things that they will encounter. It is this unique and small club that is different as Barack Obama and Donald Trump may seem. They've actually had to encounter some very similar things.

Obama, the rise of ISIS when he was in office, Donald Trump dealing with essentially eliminating the ISIS caliphate. These things that nobody wants to deal with and that they have to. So I think it's a reminder that perhaps there is more that unites us than divides us. Even at our most divisive moments in American politics.

TAPPER: Thanks to one and all. Another live look now at the private funeral happening in Plains, Georgia for the late President Jimmy Carter. The 39th president of the United States is at his home church. And after this, the Carter family will lead procession through town. More on the enormity of this day coming up.

[17:45:14]

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TAPPER: Welcome back to our show, "The Lead." Right now, a funeral service is being held former president Jimmy Carter. It's a private service underway at his home church, the Maranatha Baptist Church in Plains, Georgia. It's being led by the Carter family's personal, Pastor Tony Lowden. Joining us now to discuss CNN's Eva McKend, who's live for us in Plains, Georgia. Arthur Milnes and Jon Ward are in studio with me. They both have written books on President Carter.

Eva, first to you. You've spent a lot of time in Plains. Talk a little bit, if you could, about Jimmy Carter's faith and his relationship with his pastors over the years.

EVA MCKEND, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, Ashley Guthas, she is now the pastor here at Maranatha Baptist Church. And she says that President Carter lived a life in which he hungered for God. And I think that is really appropriate because you can see that.

[17:50:10]

It informed every aspect of his life and really was the guiding force, his faith, and how he treated people. It was so powerful when the pastor was standing at the head of the church as the casket was arriving, because she perhaps would not have been in that position if President Carter, during his life, didn't advocate for women to be pastors in the church, to be viewed as on equal footing as men throughout the faith tradition.

And then, of course, another history making moment at this church when Pastor Tony Lowden ascended to leadership here as the first black pastor. He is now giving eulogy where he is talking about President Carter's historic life. And we got a piece of that remembrance.

And something that stuck out to me is that, there is a part of it where he is going to talk about President Carter's time in public housing here in Plains, and how Carter really was able to connect with the poor in this country based on his own life, his own experiences and his faith tradition. Jake?

TAPPER: Jon Ward, you wrote a great book about the race. It's called "Camelot's End: Kennedy vs. Carter and the Fight that Broke the Democratic Party," about the 1980 race. What do you make of his hometown send off to him?

JON WARD, "CAMELOT'S END" AUTHOR: I was at that church a couple years ago with a daughter of mine. We saw him teach Sunday school. And watching the ceremonies today has been a jolt of faith for me or a jolt to my own faith.

I also wrote a book about grown up evangelical. And it's puzzled me why Jimmy Carter is not a patron saint of American evangelicalism. The fact that he's not that American evangelicalism has instead I think become more of a political movement, more oriented around political pragmatism and dominance.

And the pursuit of power has caused a lot of, you know, heart wrenching seeking on people, part of people like me. So watching the ceremony today made me think there's something real behind the faith that Jimmy Carter profess because he lived it out.

TAPPER: He certainly lives his faith, absolutely. And Arthur Milnes, you wrote a book, "98 Reasons to Thank Jimmy Carter." You spent a lot of time in Plains, a lot of time with the Carters. You recently wrote there's one spot you always visit when you go to Plains

"It's the town's small public housing complex that is still in service. One of the apartments has a large historic plaque on it. In this unit 9A, the future president lived with his wife and children for a year when their family's money ran out." It used to be not that uncommon for -- that a president would have had public housing or modest housing. Today, it's a little bit more to the man or born.

ARTHUR MILNES, AUTHOR: Yes.

TAPPER: But tell us why it's so important.

MILNES: Well, I just have always found it inspirational that a man from a small rural town in Southwest Georgia went from public housing all the way to the US presidency and the White House, a certain humility there.

And he lived that life. And I can't think of another president in my lifetime that would have had that experience, which is humbling and also, I would argue, made him a better president.

TAPPER: What was his home that he lived in after his presidency that you visited him? What was that home like?

MILNES: Well, it was just your regular home. They bought it in the '60s. The only house the Carters ever owned. You know, he used to joke he lived in public housing in Washington as well, right, so.

TAPPER: But that's incredible when you think about it, Jon. I mean, we're so used to former presidents becoming multimillionaires, joining corporate boards. The Obamas obviously have a deal with Netflix, et cetera, et cetera.

WARD: Right:

TAPPER: And I'm not judging it. That's certainly one option, Carter went a different way.

WARD: Ambassador Young at the funeral today talked about how Carter was a combination of antitheses, and how he combined his background in poverty and a rural life with his pursuit of power and his acquisition of power. And Ambassador Young quoted Martin Luther King Jr., such a powerful moment talking about how that was -- that combination of opposites is often what makes people great.

TAPPER: Just fascinating stuff. Thanks to both you. Really appreciate it. Eva McKend, thank you to you. We'll be right back.

[17:54:42]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Our last leads now. At midnight this evening, Vice President- elect JD Vance will resign his US Senate, a necessary move before he and President-elect Trump are sworn into office.

Just days from now, on January 20th, Ohio's Republican Governor Mike DeWine gets to appoint Vance's replacement. We're told that a leading contender, according to our reporting, is Ohio Lieutenant Governor Jon Husted.

An update in our breaking news coverage of the wildfires in Los Angeles. Sixth death has just been confirmed, this one in Malibu in the Palisades fire. Officials earlier today said they expected the death toll to continue to rise. There are so many other victims of these fires who have lost practically everything.

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The news continues now on CNN with Wolf Blitzer in The Situation Room. And I will see you tomorrow.