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The Lead with Jake Tapper

First Trump Cabinet Picks Could Be Confirmed Monday; Sen. Kirsten Noem, (D-NY), Is Interviewed About Trump Cabinet Picks, Joe Biden; Biden Works To Cement Legacy In Final Days As President; U.S. Supreme Court Upholds Law Banning TikTok As Of Sunday; Trump Plans Immigration Overhaul On Day One. Aired 5-6:00p ET

Aired January 17, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Stop working. Is there anything -- anyone can do at this point to stop the ban? Plus, with Donald Trump set to become the 47th president on Monday, CNN has brand new reporting about his plans for the very first day, very first few hours in office, including an aggressive crackdown on undocumented immigrants.

But we start this hour with major changes to the inauguration plans. The iconic scenes that we have come to expect with the new president swearing on a Bible outside the U.S. Capitol are not what we are going to see this year, at least not outside. The ceremonies are moving indoors because of an Arctic blast heading for Washington, D.C. Preparations are already underway inside the Capitol Rotunda as the Secret Service and other agencies scramble to put together a new security plan. Let's go straight to CNN's Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, what are you hearing from the Trump camp about these changes?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, Jake, not exactly. Every advanced staffers dream here to try to assemble something that they have been planning for months and in days. They are now changing what this is going to look like. But because it's going to be one of the coldest inauguration days in decades that we are seeing on Monday, that is why you're seeing everything moved inside. I feel bad for whoever put all those chairs out on the National Mall earlier for people to come and watch and now they're dismantling them.

But this is because of the weather, Jake. And this is something that people inside Trump's team had been talking about and looking at this week as they were looking at to how cold it was going to be with the wind chill on Monday, especially knowing people come in around 6:00 and 7:00 a.m. to get in line to be able to watch the inauguration. So now you are going to see something that we haven't seen since 1985 when Ronald Reagan was sworn in, where it'll be happen inside in the Capitol rotunda. That's where President-elect Trump and Vice President-elect JD Vance will be sworn in on Monday. They're bringing in dignitaries and lawmakers inside. They are trying to figure out seats for all of these VIPs that we know are coming to this.

And we're expected to sit up top near the cabinet officials and the cabinet nominees. And so, we'll see what that looks like, Jake. They're very much still sorting through this. But it is going to change the dynamic of this. You know, typically you would see that parade happen afterward where the president and the first lady come down.

They were expected to get out and walk and wave to the onlookers. Now all of that is going to be taking place at the arena just a few blocks away, several blocks away from where Capitol Hill is. And so, a lot of moving parts, Jake. But, but certainly this is -- because of just how cold the weather is going to be on Monday.

TAPPER: Kaitlan, once he's inaugurated on Monday, how does the new president plan to spend his first few hours in power? Traditionally, it's a bunch of executive orders by any new president.

COLLINS: And expect that as well on Monday afternoon. It is going to be when Trump gets into the White House and they walk for the first time back inside the East Wing, he'll then go over to the Oval Office, I'm told, and things will start moving very quickly, Jake. And obviously one of his biggest priorities during this campaign and going into this administration is immigration. And so we are told that there's a lot of executive orders that are being planned and written. A lot of them are being very closely held among aides right now.

But we do know that a lot of this will focus on immigration, whether that's starting to conduct raids that they -- the Biden administration halted the workplace immigration raids as well as to surging resources to the southern border. And this mirrors what Trump told lawmakers when he went and met with Republican senators last week, I believe it was he was, was saying, you know, I'm not going to wait for Congress to move on immigration to start trying to enact my pledges to secure the southern border. That's something he's going to start doing right away.

So, that's something very close to keep your eye on Jake. But obviously a lot is going to be going on with the TikTok ban set to go into effect hours before he's sworn in and other executive orders as well as potentially pardons for those January six rioters, Jake. There's a lot that's going to be happening once he's actually sworn in inside the rotunda on Monday.

TAPPER: Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. And don't forget to join Kaitlan for her excellent show, "The Source," tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

Let's focus more on Trump's first day in office. One of the people who will be responsible for implementing Trump's large scale immigration plans testified on Capitol Hill today. I'm referring, of course, to South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem, Trump's pick to lead the Department of Homeland Security. This afternoon, Republican Senator Rand Paul, the new chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, predicted that Noem will get bipartisan support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): You know, I think that the questions had a lot of comedy amicability. I don't see a reason why the Democrats would maybe not let it go on Monday. I think that Secretary of State Rubio is there's a chance we'll vote on him on Monday.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And Democratic Senator Gillibrand, Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, joins me now on Capitol Hill.

Senator, this has been a busy week. South Dakota Governor Noem capping off the latest hearing for President-elect Trump's cabinet nominees. You sit on the Senate Armed Services Committee. You questioned defense secretary nominee Pete Hegseth earlier this week. Let's take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): Do you agree anybody should be able to serve in the military if they meet the standards?

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY NOMINEE: Senator, as the president has stated, I don't disagree with the overturn of don't ask, don't tell.

[17:05:05]

GILLIBRAND: Great. Because I don't want you thinking can't serve if you're a mom, can't serve if you're LGBTQ. And then last, can't serve if you're a leftist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So I don't sense that you're going to vote for Hegseth. But I wonder -- it appears that all of Trump's nominees who have had hearings so far will be confirmed. Do you agree?

GILLIBRAND: I think that's generally true. There's a couple who I don't yet know if all Republicans support. I don't think some of the nominees have had the chance to meet with all Republicans yet. But there's some that Democrats will vote for, but most, I think will pass only with Republican votes.

TAPPER: I assume when you talk about you're not sure, you're talking about Tulsi Gabbard and Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

GILLIBRAND: Yes, those two. I don't know if RFK Jr. can get all Republican votes. I know he won't get some Democrat votes for sure. And I don't know where people are on Tulsi yet. I don't know that she's met with enough people for people to have opinions on her.

TAPPER: David Brooks wrote a column for the "New York Times" about the confirmation hearing saying, quote, "In our culture, you don't want to focus on boring policy questions. You want to engage in the kind of endless culture war that gets voters riled up," unquote. Brooks was basically saying that it would have been more effective if Democrats had gone after Hegseth when it comes to exposing his policy ignorance in Brooks's view, instead of focusing on issues like women in the military or his past, all these allegations about his past, what do you think? GILLIBRAND: Well, the statements that he's made does show his ignorance of the military. He will be Secretary of Defense in charge of 3 million people to denigrate the service of women and women in combat, women who have had children, to denigrate LGBTQ service members who, as we know, because of don't ask, don't tell really hurt the military. It hurt our access to foreign language speakers and hurt access to mission critical service members. So it showed a lack of knowledge about why you want to value the men and women who are already serving and you want to lift up their service and sacrifice as a good thing and not denigrate them just because of who they are.

TAPPER: How are you planning to work with members of Trump's Cabinet once they've been confirmed?

GILLIBRAND: I intend to work with his entire cabinet on a bipartisan basis to work on legislation. I just met with his nominee for Treasury Secretary. I've met with his nominee for the SEC. These nominees are doing very serious things that are important for the U.S. economy, important for New York. I intend to work with all of them on legislation that can make our economy stronger and help New Yorkers.

TAPPER: President Biden was on his favorite channel, MSNBC, last night saying that his biggest regret, the biggest regret of his presidency was not promoting himself and his policies more that he should have been more of a huckster, in his view. Is that your biggest regret from his presidency?

GILLIBRAND: No. And I'm not sure I understand what he means.

TAPPER: I spoke to you last month about your ongoing push to get President Biden to adopt the Equal Rights Amendment. Finally, in these waning days, after four years, President Biden did say that is -- the ERA is the law of the land. What does that mean? And can Trump just undo it on Monday?

GILLIBRAND: No. What President Biden has essentially done is notify the country, notified the states that the things that Article 5 of the Constitution requires have been completed. And his statement as the highest law officer in the administration, as the highest commander in chief, he's in charge of the entire administration, obviated the need for a statement from the archivist or anyone else. And so, the truth is now plaintiffs across this country can try to assert their rights. If they feel they have been discriminated against on the basis of sex, they have a right of action to sue in the court of law and to have the protections of a federal Equal Rights Amendment.

Ultimately, this will get up to the Supreme Court. No matter what avenue we took on this, it would get up to the Supreme Court. And that's the norm. After many constitutional amendments were made, lawsuits were filed, precedents were tested, and people fight about it. But it's important that it gets through the court system now because this can guarantee not only things like equal pay, but access to reproductive care, access to life saving care.

When women are bleeding out in parking lots because they can't get a DNC after a miscarriage, they are being violated in their basic human rights. And so restoring constitutional rights for equality would be the first step in really protecting women across the board.

TAPPER: What are the Democrats going to do now? I mean, you guys don't have the White House, you don't have the House, you don't have the Senate. It doesn't seem like your party has a leader who is out there forcefully taking the fight to Donald Trump. I guess my question is, whither the Democratic Party?

[17:10:02]

GILLIBRAND: Well, we are going to be here serving the American people. And in the Senate, we are already a very bipartisan body. We will be working on common sense bills to get the cost of things down. I'm going to be pushing President Trump to make good on his promises of addressing inflation. Right now his agenda seems solely to be tax cuts for the ultra-wealthy, not helping the middle class, not helping everyday people afford their food and their housing.

And so, we're going to hold his feet to the fire on these campaign promises that agree to put the American people first.

TAPPER: New York Democratic Senator Kirsten Gillibrand, thank you so much.

Could attempting to save TikTok also land on Trump's day one agenda? What exactly happens if he doesn't take quick action? We're going to break down what all of this means for the popular app. That's next.

Plus what CNN is learning today about Trump's plans for the first hours after he takes office and the immigration crackdown his team has already prepared to roll out. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:03]

TAPPER: In our tech lead, the TikTok, the clock is now counting down to the end of TikTok here in the U.S. on Sunday. This morning, the usually divided U.S. Supreme Court noted no dissents. They all agreed with the bipartisan decision of a usually divided Congress which said that TikTok poses a national security threat because of the app's ties to China and the ban would be permitted. Let's break down this with CNN's team of reporters, Marc Stewart's in Beijing, Hadas Gold has the tech world impacts. We're going to start with Paula Reid on the U.S. Supreme Court ruling in reaction.

So, Paula, the Supreme Court actually pointed out in the ruling that Trump once wanted TikTok banned as well, although he's done a 180 on that. So how is he going to handle this as president?

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, he's asking everyone to, quote, stay tuned because he wants to do something, but he's not made it clear exactly what that is. Now, shortly before this decision came down, he spoke with Xi Jinping and he said that TikTok was one of the things they discussed along with trade and fentanyl. So it's clearly top of mind. Now after the Supreme Court's decision, the clearest path forward for Trump if he wants to buy more time or save TikTok, is to establish that there are good faith negotiations for the sale of TikTok, because the law said that if you can sell this to U.S. approved buyer, the ban won't go into effect. But at this point, it's unclear that he's going to be able to do that.

Any other move would likely face some legal challenges because we're talking about a law that was passed with broad bipartisan support in Congress and upheld by the Supreme Court. Now, interestingly, the CEO of TikTok has weighed in here, appealing directly to the president- elect, reminding him of all the views he's gotten on TikTok and urging him to come up with some sort of solution to keep TikTok alive, but the CEO gave no indication that it's for sale.

TAPPER: Yes, that's the real issue here. Marc, let me go to you. Trump says he and Xi Jinping talked about TikTok today, but the U.S. has major underlying distrust of China's government. TikTok is just one symptom of the problem. Is China willing at all to sell TikTok to anyone and talk about the tricky foreign relations here?

MARC STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right, Jake. We should point out this is not just a business deal for China in its eyes, this is about politics, this is about position. And when it comes to TikTok, it is not going to do anything that would make it appear weak on the global stage or appear as if it's taking orders from the United States, especially at a time when China is really trying to assert itself as a leader in a new world order.

As far as China's next step, well, there is this question about government involvement. How much, say it has on what a private company like ByteDance does in its day to day operations. It's a point I brought up in a recent conversation just last week with the outgoing U.S. Ambassador to China. Take a quick listen to part of my conversation with Nicholas Burns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: How much influence does Beijing have in this debate?

NICHOLAS BURNS, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO CHINA: We make the assumption, I certainly do as ambassador here, that the Chinese government has ultimate complete authority and access to convince a state enterprise here in China or a private company to do what they wish them to do. This is an authoritarian government in an authoritarian environment. So that is an issue.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEWART: I've asked the Chinese government this question several times. Just how involved are you? And at this point, no clear response.

As Paula mentioned, Xi Jinping and President-elect Trump did hold a phone conversation in the recent hours. It's interesting, if we look at the readout from the Chinese government, there is absolutely no mention of TikTok. Instead, very positive diplomatic language asserting that right now this relationship is at a new starting point. Jake. TAPPER: So Hadas, not only is TikTok popular among users, its income for so many content creators, what happens to them? And is it possible they just move to other apps that could also have similar national security issues?

HADAS GOLD, CNN MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, TikTok is big business. According to some estimates, including one from eMarketer, TikTok generated more than $12.3 billion in ad revenue in 2024. And as you noted, for some creators, this is their livelihood. And most of their followers are on TikTok. When you compare their follower on other places like Instagram, it just doesn't match up.

And if you've been on TikTok today, which I have been, it is just full of creators talking about this ban. Some of them are lamenting it. Some of them are making kind of funny goodbye videos. Some of them are coming off as really angry about this ban and some of them are trying to convince their followers to follow them elsewhere.

We've even seen some of them go old school, trying to convince their followers to send them their e-mail so that they can blast out on e- mail where to find them next. We are seeing the rise of some other apps. If you go into the top apps on the App Store for Apple, for example, you're going to actually see, interestingly, some other Chinese social media apps getting popular as well. But one thing that I am finding really interesting from the response from the TikTok CEO this today is how he was trying to really cater to Donald Trump's obsession with ratings. Take a listen.

[17:20:22]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHOU CHEW, CEO, TIKTOK: We are grateful and pleased to have the support of a president who truly understands our platform, one who has used TikTok to express his own thoughts and perspectives, connecting with the world and generating more than 60 billion views of his content in the process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GOLD: Now, the TikTok CEO ended that video with more to come, so we'll have to see if something somehow gets resolved by this Sunday. Jake.

TAPPER: That's some shrewd stuff from the TikTok CEO there, 60 billion. That's a number that somebody like Donald Trump might remember.

Hadas Gold, Paula Reid, Marc Stewart, thanks to all of you.

So how exactly will Trump's sweeping immigration proposals be implemented starting on day one? I'm going to ask his former Homeland Security chief next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:25:25] TAPPER: In our politics lead, we are just days away from President- elect Donald Trump taking the oath office, and one of his top priorities in the first few hours of his new administration is immigration. Here now is CNN White House Correspondent Priscilla Alvarez.

And Priscilla, you have new reporting on what Trump's day one immigration agenda might look like. What are you learning?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's going to include a series of executive actions on this signature issue for the president-elect. And they really fall into three different buckets. Interior enforcement, that's what we're thinking about. ICE sweeps, particularly in major metropolitan areas. The reason being that we know that many of these areas have had to grapple with an influx of migrants in recent years.

Think of Denver, Chicago. Then, too, they want to focus on the border. Now, we should note here that the border numbers have dropped pretty dramatically over the last several months. But all the same, they want to clamp down further by invoking that national emergency declaration. That might sound familiar to viewers because they did it the first time around, too.

But this is a way for them to shore up Pentagon resources along the U.S. Southern border and also add asylum restrictions. Again, there are some already in place.

But the third is also legal immigration. So the travel ban, an iteration of that coming back. Those sources tell me they're still working through who exactly would fall under this ban, but certainly something that many folks will be watching. Though I have been told not to expect the chaos that we saw at the airports back in 2017. They do feel more practiced, more ready to roll out these executive actions.

And I shortly go spoke to the Denver mayor who the incoming border czar, Tom Homan, has verbally sparred with public saying, for example, that he should be jailed. And the mayor told me that they have been doing tabletop exercises with their team to try to determine what they do in these various scenarios. For example, if ICE is going door to door, if they go to schools, if they go to hospitals. So they have been having to sort of think through how exactly they're going to respond to this as a lot of questions remain as to how many resources they have to actually come through with these lofty ambitions.

So certainly a lot still in play. But what sources tell me is that they are very ready to roll out these executive actions in a way that would ultimately dramatically shift immigration policy in this country again.

TAPPER: All right. Yes. Priscilla Alvarez, I know you're going to be covering this for us in the months and years to come. We're looking forward to your coverage.

Let's bring in two different former Department of Homeland Security secretaries. Let's start with Chad Wolf, who was acting secretary of the Department of Homeland Security during Trump's first administration. Good to see you, sir.

So Trump has promised on day one to launch the largest deportation program in American history. He says he'll do this to, quote, "get the criminals out." Can you give us any idea of what you think this is going to look like?

CHAD WOLF, FORMER ACTING DHS SECRETARY, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: Well, I think it starts with probably in executive orders, making sure that he's giving manner's intent to the Department of Homeland Security so they can change informant priorities, obviously from the Biden administration and making sure that they are targeting and prioritizing those resources for enforcement and eventually removal. But I think our part is taking the proverbial handcuffs off of ICE removal agents so that they can enforce the law while prioritizing their targets, making sure that they're going to focus on the worst of the worst, which are criminal aliens, but also sending the signal that no one above the law, and so no one's exempt from the law. And so -- but overall, Jake, what I would say is that builds over time. It builds over a number of weeks and months, and so that those numbers continue to increase as far as enforcement, detention and then removal.

TAPPER: Secretary Wolf, we're having some audio problems with you, so I'm going to go to my next guest and hopefully my control room can fix that. I still have a couple more questions for you.

Let's go now to Jeh Johnson, who was secretary of the Department of Homeland Security during the Obama administration.

Secretary Johnson, what is your reaction to what we heard from Priscilla on the immigration measures Trump plans to take within the first few hours of taking office, including what looked to be maybe some dramatic sweeps by ICE.

JEH JOHNSON, FORMER OBAMA HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Right. Well, with regard to Interior Enforcement, Jake, the thing that I used to tell my people at DHS, including Tom Homan, who was in enforcement and removal operations at ICE when I was secretary, is Interior enforcement is a laudable goal, obviously. But let's not do something in a particular community that is so controversial that it drives local law enforcement in the opposite direction, such that they don't want to work with us anymore. You can undermine your entire mission in a community by doing something controversial, like, you know, pulling somebody away from church or school or something of that. So -- so you have to go about the interior enforcement mission with a bit of common sense and -- and humanity.

And on the issue of border security, the numbers have been down since the summer. And in my experience, and I learned this lesson the hard way, numbers of illegal immigrants crossing our southern border react sharply to perceived changes in our enforcement policy.

But so long as the underlying conditions in the source countries persist, the poverty, the violence, the drought, the corruption, they're going to keep coming and they're always going to revert back to their longer term trend lines. We saw this in Obama, we saw this in Trump, we saw this in Biden, and it's going to continue so long as the underlying push factors persist.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: So you worked with Tom Homan or he worked under you. He is going to be --

JOHNSON: Yes.

TAPPER: -- Trump's border czar. What do you think of him?

JOHNSON: Yes.

TAPPER: He sounds a little bit more outspoken these days than I'm sure he was when he worked under you. Although maybe not.

JOHNSON: Well, I have two thoughts, Jake. One, I never made a -- I never made a significant enforcement policy decision in immigration without consulting four key people. Tom Homan was one of them. He was very definitely pro enforcement. Kevin McAleenan, who was number two at CBP. But I also had two advisors, one of whom worked for Ted Kennedy, the other one worked for Zoe Lofgren.

And between the four of them, I thought we devised smart, balanced policies. The other thing, I'll say I was very interested in your interview with -- with Senator Andy Kim, my senator. He asked her -- he asked the nominee, Kristi Noem, today. All right, are you going to take orders from Tom Homan? He's White House staff. He's not a presidential appointee. He's not Senate confirmed. What is the relationship? And I think that's a good question.

You know, the -- to the extent we have a border czar in this country, in this government, it's the Secretary of Homeland Security. It's not a person on the White House staff. So that's an issue that she and he and President Trump are going to need to work through.

TAPPER: On the politics of this, you as DHS secretary and President Obama were more aggressive on border enforcement than President Biden was. And do you think that played any role in paving the way for the reelection of Donald Trump?

JOHNSON: Tough to say. People have perceptions about border security. When I was in office, the numbers were the lowest they had been in almost 20 years. But if you polled Americans about border security, they would -- they -- they come back and say, we think it's worse than it was 20 years ago. So perception matters a lot. Donald Trump made full use of -- of this rallying cry about mass deportation. Our border is not secure.

But in fact, the numbers have been down. But again, Jake, you've got to -- you've got to deal with this problem at the source. Otherwise we're going to just keep banging our head against the wall on the defense side and they're going to keep coming.

TAPPER: Today, 10 Democrats joined all Republicans in the Senate, a vote to advance the Laken Riley Act. That's a key step for the bill becoming law. The bill would require federal detention of immigrants without legal status who are accused of theft or burglary, other crimes. Are there other areas where you think Democrats agree with Republicans on immigration reform? It seems like the Overton window on this issue has shifted. It's become -- Americans have become more conservative on this issue, I think it's fair to say.

JOHNSON: Well, absolutely. The -- the -- the equilibrium, the political equilibrium between Democrats and Republicans is very definitely shift to the right. The Jim Lankford-Chris Murphy bill from last year, for example, was a very pro border security bill, though it was -- it was bipartisan. My hope is that we can achieve border security but also do something for the people who've been in this country 10, 20 years who want to be accountable, who want to get on the books, who want to pay taxes, who have committed no crimes and at this point have become de facto Americans.

We ought to be able to deal with this problem in a comprehensive way, separate and apart from the politics. The problem is it's such a red meat issue that the politicians in Washington are -- in Washington are more content to scream about the issue and blame the other side being weak or evil and inhumane. But there are solutions to this problem, Jake.

TAPPER: Yes. Former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson, thanks so much. Our thanks to former Acting Secretary of Homeland Security Chad Wolf. We were not able to resolve his audio issues, but we will have him back soon to talk about this important issue.

[17:35:11]

The ceasefire and hostage agreement between Israel and Hamas is expected to take effect on Sunday. How exactly is it going to work? Is fighting going to stop in all of Gaza? Which hostages will be released first and how many? That's next.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT KELLY, FEATURED GUEST, SPACE2SEA ANTARCTICA VOYAGE: I'll tell you what. You know, that's one of the coolest things I've ever done in my life. And I've done some pretty cool shit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our World Lead, our next guest has done some pretty cool shit. He spent 520 days in space. But his most recent adventure exploring the uncharted was back here on earth in a 10-day voyage to Antarctica. And joining us now, former NASA astronaut, Scott Kelly. If he looks familiar, if you shave him, you'd see his brother, Mark, who is a senator from Arizona. But he's -- Scott's done -- he's growing the beard people. So like let's take the hint. Commander, last time we spoke you were in Buenos Aires getting ready to go to Antarctica to travel through the Drake Passage. How was the trip?

[17:40:15] KELLY: Well, the trip down there was what they refer to as the Drake Lake. Coming back, it was more the Drake Shake, which is like 15-foot swells but not -- not too bad. It could be -- it could be a lot worse, but really an extraordinary journey. And like that video showed, you know, I've done some pretty cool things in my life and, you know, going down there was definitely a highlight.

TAPPER: There are people curious about seeing Antarctica but also concerned about traveling there. What did you learn after seeing Antarctica and the snow, desert up close?

KELLY: You know, that's a really good point. And -- and there's this -- there's a saying that everyone should go to Antarctica once, but no one should go twice. And I -- I kind of believe that because it's -- it's really, with the exception of the -- the research stations, it's really a pristine environment and a -- and a place that if you can imagine what this planet was like hundreds of years ago, that's what you're seeing there.

So it kind of gives you a sense of what we once had on this Earth. But we've, you know, as humans we tend to -- to pollute and -- and destroy things. So it was an incredible journey and an incredible learning opportunity to just see that extraordinary place that really should be precious to all of us.

TAPPER: The organization you traveled with, Space2Sea is meant to inspire exploration. What do you want others to take away from your trip? Our viewers right now, for example.

KELLY: You know, this was an interesting group of people because it was a diverse group, but similar in how everyone was like minded with regards to explorate -- exploration, the environment, you know, science, a sense of community and -- and connection to the planet. And I -- I would just encourage people, you know, to find these kind of opportunities when you can to, you know, to learn about the Earth, which is really should be the most precious thing to -- to all of us. And there are opportunities out there to, you know, to join in this conversation about how to protect this planet because we do have a lot of challenges.

TAPPER: So I want to ask you as a former astronaut, we also had some major space news yesterday. SpaceX Starship booster had a successful chopsticks catch. However, the spacecraft itself was lost, creating huge de -- debris field across the sky. What -- what do you make of SpaceX's most recent launch?

KELLY: You know, unlike what we are told in the movies, especially about space, failure is an option. I mean, that will happen especially when you're doing something as complicated as space flight. You know, the flight was a partial success in that they were able to catch the -- the first stage. The second stage had an issue. But, you know, that's what we do in space flight. We -- we fly, we test. Sometimes things fail, we learn from it, we fix it, and we move on.

You know what I was excited about, though, and seeing that reentry, you know, as Elon, I think calls it, a rapid unscheduled disassembly, essentially a spacecraft blowing up and then reentering the Earth's atmosphere. It got me really excited for when the International Space Station is going to deorbit, you know, in the next five or -- or so years. And I hope this future space group is going to plan a trip to the Pacific Ocean to see that. Because if you thought what, you know, starship reentering, if you think that was pretty amazing. I mean, the space station is over a million pounds.

TAPPER: All right, Scott Kelly, thanks so much for joining us. Really appreciate it. What a cool life you lead. Really appreciate it.

[17:44:04]

In just two days, some hostages who were taken by Hamas 469 days ago could return home if all goes according to plan. We'll tell you how this might all unfold as the Israeli cabinet continues to debate the ceasefire deal. Stay with us.

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TAPPER: Back with our World Lead. If everything goes according to plan on Sunday afternoon, hostages held in Gaza for more than 15 months will start to return to their homes, part of the ceasefire and hostage deal which Israel's cabinet is still deliberating at this hour. Let's get right to CNN's Bianna Golodryga, who's in Tel Aviv, Israel. And Bianna, during the first ceasefire, dozens of hostages were released. This is after roughly seven weeks in captivity. It's going to be different this time. It's going to be far -- far worse.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, far worse, Jake. That was 50 plus days in captivity back in November of '23. We're talking about what will be 471 days in captivity. Another difference is 105 hostages came home alive during that last hostage ceasefire release deal. This time they're hoping that many hostages will be coming home alive. But there's also deep concern that some hostages will be coming home in body bags.

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Doctors, however, and medical staff are -- are prepared for everything as the six hospitals where these hostages are expected to go before they go home. Ultimately, they've been preparing for this moment for months. And we had a chance to visit one of those hospitals to see firsthand how they are preparing to treat these hostages as soon as they come back, hopefully starting this Sunday.

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GOLODRYGA (voice-over): As Israelis anxiously await the release of hostages, six hospitals have spent the past several months preparing for this moment.

PROF. ELI SPRECHER, CEO, TEL AVIV SOURASKY MEDICAL CENTER: We had some large exercise where were simulating the arrival the -- of hostages.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): The Tel Aviv Souraskly Medical Center says they treated 17 of the 105 hostages released during the last ceasefire hostage deal in November 2023.

SPRECHER: There is a lot of data suggesting that they may all be suffering from severe malnutrition and this requires very specific program.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): On hand will be emergency doctors, nurses and psychological support staff. Hospital officials are also prioritizing privacy for returning hostages and their families.

YAFFA HILLEL SHAKAROF, NURSE, TEL AVIV SOURASKY MEDICAL CENTER: We learned to give them their whole privacy.

GOLODRYGA: But there was not enough privacy --

SHAKAROF: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: -- when the last hostages were released.

SHAKAROF: Yes.

GOLODRYGA: And what was the consequence of that?

SHAKAROF: Well, a huge pain.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): What was a dermatology unit has been transformed to a private returnee floor. The first among the hostages to be released are female civilians who will be treated in rooms like this one. Also expected to be released in the first phase is 20-year- old Agam Berger, along with four other female IDF soldiers taken captive from their military base on October 7th.

Video of their capture released by their families show the physical violence they experienced that day. Agam's cousin speaks to the anxiety families are experiencing and preparing for.

ASHLEY WAXMAN BAKSHI, COUSIN OF ISRAELI HOSTAGE AGAM BERGER: We know what they did on October 7th. We also know from released hostages who came home what they did to hostages in captivity. That's the biggest fear, the physical aspect of it, but more importantly the mental and emotional aspect of what kind of trauma something like that can do to a young girl who's 20 years old, who has her whole life ahead of her.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Sixty-five-year-old American Israeli, Keith Siegel, is also expected to be released in the first phase of the deal. His brother, Lee, still out rallying for the return of the hostages, is worried about Keith's health.

LEE SIEGEL, BROTHER OF AMERICAN-ISRAELI HOSTAGE KEITH SIEGEL: Our last formal sign of life for Keith was nine months ago, a Hamas video clip, where he appeared 65 years old. He was not yet 65, he was 64, looking almost 84, very worn.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): With hostages ranging in age from two-year-old Kfir Bibas to 86-year-old Shlomo Mansour, medical staff are prepared to treat each hostage case by case. For family members, the thought of a reunion with their loved ones is almost too much to bear. GOLODRYGA: Have you thought about what you will say to Agam when you do see her face to face?

BAKSHI: I have been doing everything to get you home. Thank you for making my dream come true, for coming home.

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GOLODRYGA: And Jake, we can tell you that the Israeli cabinet has been deliberating over the ceasefire hostage deal for seven hours now. It is expected to be approved. And here's the TikTok we can expect to see on Sunday at 12:15. That is when the ceasefire would go into effect at 4:00 p.m. local time here is when Hamas would hand over those three female civilian hostages to the Red Cross. And it is the moment when the Red Cross then hands these hostages to IDF when they are in IDF custody, is when you'll start to see Palestinian prisoners released here in Israel. That -- that is where things stand right now. Of course, this is a very fluid and fragile peace fire -- ceasefire talk that we're dealing with now.

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TAPPER: All right, Bianna, thank you so much, Ciana -- CNN's Bianna Golodryga in Tel Aviv. Our last leads are next.

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TAPPER: Our last lead today, welcome to the dark side of the ocean. A new super giant bug has been discovered off the coast of Vietnam. It's nicknamed the Darth Vader Bug because of its, well, look at it, its helmet like head shape. This -- this -- this is one of the world's biggest sea bugs, or isopods. The -- the diet is less Skywalker, more bottom dweller, we should note, mostly snacking on dead animals at the bottom of the sea. But don't say eww too quickly. A similar species has actually become a delicacy in Vietnam. Some even likening its meat to the taste of lobster. So who knows? The Vader bug could make a great Seekh kebab.

Coming up Sunday on State of the Union, incoming National Security advisor, Mike Waltz, Former White House Chief of Staff and U.S. Ambassador to Japan, Rahm Emanuel, Republican Congressman Jim Jordan of Ohio. That's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern and again at noon only here on CNN.

And don't miss CNN's live coverage of Inauguration Day. Do join me Monday morning, bright and early, as the 45th president becomes the 47th president. Our teams will be spread across the nation's capital to cover these historic events. We should note earlier this show, one of our guests said that there were no original Village People performing at the inaugural events under the name the Village People. But that's not true. That wasn't accurate. We've learned there are actually two original members of the Village People performing, including Victor Willis. Young man, there's no need to feel down.

[18:00:14] You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, and on the TikTok at JakeTapper. You can follow the show on X at TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of The Lead, you can listen to the show once you get your podcasts.

Wolf Blitzer picks it up. See you on Monday morning.