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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Signs New Executive Orders In Oval Office; Judge Blocks Trump's Order Ending Birthright Citizenship; Fire-Ravaged California Grapples With New Infernos; Austin Tice's Mother Visits Syria In Search For Her Son. Aired 4-5p ET

Aired January 23, 2025 - 16:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: -- over the next couple of days, and we'll see.

[16:00:02]

But hopefully that can be worked out without having to worry about it. It would be nice -- it would really be nice if that could be worked out without having to go that further step.

REPORTER: And who are you going to meet with --

TRUMP: Well, I'd rather not say that, but very high level people. But hopefully that can be worked out. You know, look, Iran hopefully will make a deal. And if they don't make a deal, I guess that's okay too.

REPORTER: Hey, Mr. President, just to follow up. You said you think the Fed should listen. Can you elaborate on why you think it should?

TRUMP: With regard to interest rates?

REPORTER: Correct, yes.

TRUMP: Because I think I know interest rates much better than they do. And I think I know certainly much better than the one who's primarily in charge of making that decision. But no, I'm guided by them very much. But if I disagree, I will let it be known.

REPORTER: Sir, your tariffs plan for China and Mexico are much tougher. The ones for Canada and Mexico are much tougher than the one for China. Why is it softer for China?

TRUMP: Well, China is already paying a lot of tariffs because of me. And when you add them up, I would say, you know, they're paying a lot. They've paid hundreds of billions of dollars. They never paid 10 cents until I came along. When I came along, they pay hundreds of -- they've paid hundreds of billions of dollars, never paid anything.

And so they've already started at a higher base.

(CROSSTALK)

REPORTER: The date for the Chinese tariffs as well, sir? February 1? Or was that just Mexico and Canada? TRUMP: It's Mexico and Canada, but we're talking about China, too.

Look, China is sending us tremendous amounts of bad drugs, fentanyl, really bad stuff. Most of it comes through Mexico and we're losing, I think, 300,000 lives a year because of that. People say 150, 100, 120. I think 300,000 lives a year. Those are old numbers.

The other, the lower number is a low number, and we can't have that. They've got to stop sending it. I had a deal with President Xi, but it was a deal that wasn't followed up by Biden. Of course, where they were going to issue the death penalty to people that make fentanyl, and that would have stopped it. But, we'll have to stop it with tariffs.

Okay. Thank you very much, everybody.

(CROSSTALK)

REPORTER: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President.

REPORTER: Thank you, Mr. President.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, guys.

Hey, press. Let's go.

Thanks, guys.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And you have been listening to President Donald Trump speaking in the Oval Office about a range of topics in the oval office, asking -- being asked questions by reporters about many matters, including Russia's war on Ukraine, the border, and on and on.

Let's go straight to CNN's Jeff Zeleny, who's at the White House for us.

Jeff, walk us through what stands out to you.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, one of the things that stands out is the president responding for the first time to that ruling by the federal judge in Seattle about his executive order on birthright citizenship. The president said, obviously, we'll appeal. And he suggested that this was taken to a certain judge, in his words, of course, that is a judge appointed by Ronald Reagan.

But look, I mean, it was always clear that this was going to be litigated in the courts, likely the Supreme Court and the ultimate end. So he did not express surprise by that. He was also asked about the Republican senators, Susan Collins and Lisa Murkowski voting against a Pete Hegseth his defense secretary nominee. He said he's not surprised by that, but expressed support for him.

He was in the Oval Office to sign about five executive orders. This is one of the things that he has been doing during his first week in office. These executive orders were not nearly as consequential or as weighty. We don't believe, although we've not seen the exact text of them as the ones signed earlier in the week. One was to -- to declassify some records on the JFK assassination. We'll have to look deeper into that to see actually what is being a declassified, he said. Everything will be revealed. We will see exactly about that.

But also, he went on to answer a variety of questions there about his speech earlier at Davos. And interestingly, Jake, he was also asked about his plans for January 6th, defendants and convicts, if he would have them here to the White House. And he said, I would -- I'm definitely open to seeing them here. He said if they meet with members of Congress, he would be definitely open to having them here at the White House.

But there are no plans yet to do so. And he said so far, he's spoken to none -- to none of them, of course. Those are the ones that he issued a blanket pardon for in one of his first actions earlier this week.

TAPPER: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thank you so much.

Let's bring in CNN's Daniel Dale to help us fact check what President Trump said there in the Oval Office.

Daniel, a lot of golden oldies there in terms of false claims by President Trump. What stands out?

DANIEL DALE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: So, Jake, I missed a bunch of that, honestly. So forgive me if I omit some golden oldies, but I'm told that he repeated the story he's been telling a lot this week.

This claim that former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi has admitted on tape that she rejected an offer of 10,000 National Guard troops for the Capitol on January 6th, 2021, that is not true at all. That's not what the tape shows.

So it is true that Pelosi has a filmmaker daughter who was filming her on January 6th and showed Nancy Pelosi saying on that tape, she said, I take responsibility for not having them prepare more. Talking about Capitol security, but nothing in that general statement saying, you know, I wish I had done more to prevent this from happening is a specific admission that Trump made some sort of offer to her. In fact, she has steadfastly denied that he ever made such an offer to her, not admitted it, denied it.

And a lot of observers have said it wouldn't even have made sense for Trump to have offered her the opportunity to accept or reject such an offer, because it is the president, not the House speaker, who is the commander of the D.C. National Guard.

So if even if he had made such an offer to her, she would not have had the power to turn it down.

Trump also said that January 6th rioters were there because they were protesting a crooked election. You hardly need me to fact check this. But no, they were rioting because they were denying the results of a legitimate election, Jake.

TAPPER: Daniel Dale, thank you so much.

Pardon me.

Now, let's go to one of this afternoon's big headlines in the law and justice lead. A federal judge today describing Donald Trump's executive order ending birthright citizenship as blatantly unconstitutional. And he issued a temporary restraining order to block it. To refresh, Section One of the 14th Amendment reads, quote: All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside, unquote.

Let us go to CNN chief legal affairs correspondent Paula Reid and CNN's senior legal analyst Elie Honig.

Obviously, a lot of comments from President Trump there about the 14th Amendment.

Paula, this order also comes amid a rash of lawsuits already filed by the ACLU and dozens of state attorneys general from Washington state to Massachusetts. The federal judge in Washington state today said it boggles his mind that the lawyers around this considered Trump's move constitutional.

Break this down. What does this delay from this judge do?

PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: So, this is a temporary delay of Trump's policy restricting birth right citizenship and, Jake, this was very much expected. I think the president even alluded to this, the Trump team has told me for weeks now they would expect that his executive orders would be challenged in court, these challenges against these executive actions are filed in jurisdictions where the challengers think they have a pretty good chance of at least winning, initially, getting that policy placed on hold while the larger legal arguments play out.

Now when we talk about birthright citizenship, you just went that section of the 14th Amendment, but the Trump lawyers, they are arguing that the courts have misinterpreted the 14th Amendment, and they want the courts to revisit this really, for the first time in 100 years.

Now, they also have other political arguments about the national security risks of birthright citizenship, as well as pointing to abuses by wealthy foreigners who are able to afford to fly here and have their babies here. So they have that citizenship. But today, this Reagan appointed judge did not see it their way and put a temporary hold on this policy because he bought the plaintiffs argument, which is that this is in the constitution. And they warned of widespread and severe harm, saying, quote, babies are being born today here and in the plaintiff states and around the country with a cloud cast over their citizenship.

Now, we'll note that this policy wouldn't actually go into effect until February 19th. But look, ultimately, this will be up to the Supreme Court, whether it wants to offer a new interpretation of the 14th Amendment. And this is the first big test for the Trump Justice Department.

And tonight, they are vowing to fight on saying the Department of Justice will vigorously defend President Trump's EO, which they say correctly interprets the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution. And we look forward to presenting a full merits argument to the court and to the American people who are desperate to see our nation's laws enforced.

But look, legal experts say this is going to be a real uphill climb for the Trump administration, but certainly one to watch.

TAPPER: Elie, I kind of just assume this is going to end up in front of the U.S. Supreme Court, right?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I'm sure it will, Jake. And I'm sure Donald Trump will lose this in the appeals court and in the U.S. Supreme Court, because at its core, this is really not a liberal versus conservative, Democrat versus Republican issue. This is just a, can you read the law issue?

Section one of the 14th Amendment, you put it up before, Jake. It says any person who is born or naturalized in the United States and subject to U.S. jurisdiction is a citizen. On top of that, Congress passed a law in 1940 and then reaffirmed it in 1952, saying the same thing. And on top of all that, there is a U.S. Supreme Court decision from 1898, but it's still good law, essentially saying the same thing. A person who was born here of noncitizen parents is a citizen.

And these defenses that Paula just laid out, these responses from the Trump team saying, well, it's bad policy or it's bad for national security, that doesn't matter.

[16:10:09]

It's a constitutional provision. It's not about whether does it serve us well or not. It's in the Constitution. It's been reaffirmed by Congress, reaffirmed by the Supreme Court. And I think Trump will fail here.

TAPPER: Right. And we should note also that there are exceptions built into the amendment. So I mean, this has been hashed out over decades. For instance, the children of a foreign diplomat born in the United States are not automatically American citizens, et cetera, et cetera. Like whether if Donald Trump can like it or not. And obviously, he doesn't. But this does seem to be established law.

HONIG: Absolutely. There are various exceptions. For example, certain people who are Native Americans and not subject at all to certain federal laws have been carved out of this. As you said, if there was an invading force who came in here and had babies here, theoretically they would not be subject to this. But this has been hashed out. These are core questions. It's not about what's good policy or good politics. It's about what the constitution says, what the Supreme Court has said. TAPPER: All right. Elie and Paula, thanks to both of you.

More in our politics lead now, where two Republican senators, Lisa Murkowski of Alaska and Susan Collins of Maine today both announced that they are voting no on Pete Hegseth, President Donald Trump's pick for secretary of defense.

CNN's Manu Raju is live for us on Capitol Hill.

Manu, why are these two senators opposing Hegseth?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they raised serious concerns about Mr. Hegseth's temperament, whether he can actually do the job, and as well as his past comments about women in the military. Remember, just before he got the nomination as a Fox News host, he reiterated his view, criticizing and really opposing the idea of women in combat. He has since revised that view.

But that was not in Susan Collins' opinion, enough for her to feel satisfied with his nomination. But that was not the only concern. Some of them have even raised questions. Lisa Murkowski in particular, about some of the allegations of his past misconduct, suggesting that that undercuts his character and suggests that he's not qualified or the right person for this absolutely critical position in the federal government.

Now, in the statement, Susan Collins said, while I appreciate his courageous military service and his ongoing commitment to our service members and our families, I am concerned that he does not have the experience and perspective necessary to succeed in the job. She went on to say he and I had a candid conversation in December about his past statements, and apparently evolving views.

I am not convinced that his position on women serving in combat roles has changed. Now, Senator Lisa Murkowski, also issuing a very lengthy statement, really siding with a lot of the concerns that Democrats had raised as well. She said in that statement: While the allegations of sexual assault and excessive drinking do nothing to quiet my concerns, that past behaviors, Mr. Hegseth has admitted to including infidelity on multiple occasions demonstrate a lack of judgment that is unbecoming of someone who would lead our armed services.

And Jake, despite their opposition, that was not enough to stop his nomination from going forward, it did clear a key hurdle overcoming a Democratic-led filibuster on a 51-49 vote, an incredibly narrow vote for a nomination. Typically, defense secretary supported widely along both sides of the aisle, but not on this one. Hegseth, though, poised to be confirmed as late as tomorrow night -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much.

Let's bring in former senior adviser to President Obama, David Axelrod, and former Trump White House communications director Alyssa Farah Griffin.

David, President Trump was dealt two smaller setbacks today. The federal judge blocking Trump's attempt to end birthright citizenship, although that will ultimately be appealed, probably end up before the before the Supreme Court, then the two Republican senators against Hegseth.

What's your reaction?

DAVID AXELROD, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, look, in terms of the birthright citizenship, I'm not sure. Honestly, as a matter of politics, whether winning ultimately is all that important to him because he's trying to make a statement to his base, and that statement will be received. And if he fights it all the way up to the Supreme Court, he'll just denounce the decision when it comes. But he'll have fought the fight.

In terms of Hegseth, look, I think that his main qualifications, so far as I can see to the president is that he is good on TV and he is loyal, and that loyalty is to him, which is a problem he had with his two past defense secretaries that they -- they were loyal to their oaths and said so and refused to do some things that he wanted them to do. In terms of his qualification, Hegseth, in terms of this issue of his attitude toward women and allegations of sexual assault, and his and allegations of excessive drinking, these should be big red flags for anyone voting on a guy who's going to run the most important agency in the United States' government, second most -- probably the second most weighty job to the presidency, the presidency itself.

So this is a measure of the loyalty of the Republicans in the Senate to President Trump.

[16:15:07]

TAPPER: Alyssa, so people know probably that Hegseth cheated on wife number one with wife number two. Then he cheated on wife number two with wife number three. I think its wife number two -- it's one of his ex-wives, gave a new statement to the FBI about what she alleges was Hegseth's excessive drinking. A source familiar with that statement said she told the FBI, quote, he drinks more often than he doesn't, unquote.

We should note, Pete Hegseth vehemently denies all of these allegations.

Take a listen to Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Now, I'm going through this last allegation. But unless I can point to specific, firsthand corroborated testimony, I'm not going to cave to pressure. I'm going to vote for his confirmation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Alyssa, what do you think? ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, listen, I

think Pete Hegseth is going to be confirmed by the Senate. I don't anticipate any more no votes other than Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins. It sounds like Mitch McConnell will likely be voting to confirm him.

And listen, President Trump is entitled to his cabinet picks and the Senate has an advise and consent role to do. Did they go far enough? It's hard to say. I mean, I think it was a massive strategic error by Democrats in his confirmation hearing to focus so heavily on the more salacious allegations, sexual -- allegations of sexual misconduct or some of his past relationships with women in his life, rather than focus on what I think having worked at the Pentagon for the previous secretary of defense, that he just lacks some basic qualifications, to know how to do the job on day one.

And frankly, if I was still advising Donald Trump, which I certainly am not, I think he's entitled to somebody who wants to execute his agenda there, but also has the know-how and the skill to do it. And my instinct says, based on a fairly thin resume that Hegseth has, he's going to have a hard time navigating the bureaucracy that is the pentagon. A 3-million-person-plus workforce with troops in over 100 countries around the world.

So I think he's gearing up to get through, but I think he's going to find the job quite challenging.

TAPPER: All right. Alyssa Farah Griffin, David Axelrod, thanks to you.

As noted, more from President Trump and his big plans for the economy. Coming up next, more on that demand that he says he can make to lower gas prices. One, he says, will in turn bring down your interest rates.

And later, a must-see special report a mother's quest to find her son. That son, American journalist Austin Tice, has been missing more than 12 years. The convincing clues leading her to believe that he is alive. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:21:24]

TAPPER: In our money lead, President Donald Trump today delivered an America first message from America virtually to the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. Mr. Trump often took a combative tone in his virtual address to the international audience of business leaders and politicians. He pressured NATO countries to increase their defense spending, and he delivered this tariff threat.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But if you don't make your product in America, which is your prerogative, then very simply you will have to pay a tariff, differing amounts, but a tariff.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump also said he would press the crown prince of Saudi Arabia and OPEC to bring down the price of oil, claiming lower oil prices could hurt Russia's economy enough to help end the war in Ukraine.

He also said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: With oil prices going down, I'll demand that interest rates drop immediately and likewise, they should be dropping all over the world. Interest rates should follow us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: A reminder that U.S. interest rates are set by the Federal Reserve, which is, at least theoretically, for now, an independent entity.

Let's dive into this with CNN's Phil Mattingly and Catherine Rampell at "The Washington Post".

Phil, for Trump, this was about putting America first on the world stage in front of the world's wealthiest people. What did he want this wealthy audience to hear? And what did he want Americans to hear?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CHIEF DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, to simplify it on some level, Jake, it's basically make your products here or else. And I think it's a threat that certainly the president, after 72 hours in office, feels emboldened in the sense that he has delivered in several fronts on his campaign promises that he can do through executive action. And he feels like the response has been positive. He feels like he's actually been able to, from a bureaucratic standpoint, do things that he never was able to accomplish in his first term very quickly and maintaining a level of support that he simply never had in his first term, trying to almost transition that into the global economy here.

The issue when he walked through things throughout the course of his remarks in Davos, is he unilaterally can basically implement the stick here. He can't implement the carrot on his own. And what I mean by that is he's promising the lowest tax rates for corporations and saying he can get it from 21 percent, which he was able to accomplish in his 2017 tax overhaul, down to 15 percent. He can't do that on his own. He needs Congress to actually pass a tax overhaul to do that.

When it comes to interest rates, he said, just a few moments ago that he does believe the fed will listen to him, that he'd even be willing to have a direct conversation with Fed Chair Jay Powell. The Fed obviously does not have to listen to the president. It is an autonomous operation.

And then when it comes to OPEC and gas prices, I think there's a little bit of a conflict here in terms of pressing OPEC or pressing Saudi Arabia, which really controls the OPEC cartel, to lower prices, means you're pressing them to increase their output, which somewhat challenges or runs head on into the energy revolution he's trying to push for, for oil producers here at home, particularly when the U.S. is already producing more oil than any country in the world. So how this all plays out over time is going to be fascinating to watch.

One thing that is very clear, though, the market seems to have exhaled a little bit and world leaders as well, because he didn't deliver on those tariff threats, particularly Mexico and Canada and China on his first day, like he claimed he was going to. I think when you talk to officials on his economic team, Jake, one thing they make very clear is he doesn't feel afraid to do anything right now in the sense of he's not bluffing.

And so the effort right now, you're going to see from foreign leaders and foreign businesses as well, try and get in good and figure out a way to get onto his good side.

TAPPER: Catherine, Trump talked a lot about wanting to extend his 2017 tax cuts. And also he wants to bring down the price of oil. And he's demanding that the Fed cut interest rates.

Is -- is any of that realistic. And what would it mean for Americans if any of that happens?

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN ECONOMICS COMMENTATOR: It is certainly possible that the Republican controlled Senate and Congress would accede to Trump's demands on taxes, extending the existing Trump tax cuts and potentially cutting corporate tax rates down to 15 percent. It will be extremely expensive for any of that to get done. It doesn't mean that they won't try.

On the other things. Much more challenging. So, for example, on interest rates, as you pointed out before, rightly, the Federal Reserve sets interest rates. The Federal Reserve is politically independent. It is. It needs to not only be politically independent, but be perceived as politically -- politically independent in order for its policies to actually work. And we have seen counter examples throughout the rest of the world that when central banks look like they are being controlled by politicians, that leads to much worse inflationary outcomes. So, very bad idea for Trump to be pressuring them.

And in fact, Trump may be on a crash course with the Federal Reserve precisely because a lot of his own policies will be inflationary and will be -- will make it much harder for the Fed to continue to cut rates.

TAPPER: All right. Thanks to all.

President Trump says he's, quote, been through four years of hell while out of office. I'm going to talk next with a reporter who has great sources within the Trump administration. I'll ask her what Trump's tone could mean for the next four years.

Plus, this time yesterday, we were telling you about a brand new wildfire raging, burning large swaths of Los Angeles County. What's the situation now with the Hughes Fire? We'll go to L.A. live next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:30:42]

TAPPER: In our national lead, exhausted southern Californians are facing new wildfires after weeks of deadly blazes caused some of the worst devastation Los Angeles and the surrounding area have ever seen. Although one of the newest has stopped spreading, thankfully, another already has burned through more than 10,000 acres in Ventura and Los Angeles counties.

The National Weather Service has issued a red flag warning for parts of L.A. until Friday.

Let's get to CNN's Veronica Miracle in northern Los Angeles County, where the Hughes Fire was spreading fast this time yesterday.

Veronica, are those fires the Hughes fires contained now?

VERONICA MIRACLE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's looking a lot better, 24 percent containment here. And firefighters aggressively fought this last night and this morning when winds were a little bit calmer and temperatures had dropped significantly. Right now, you can see massive gusts. This is definitely something firefighters don't want to see. And we actually have not seen some of the helicopters dropping in the water. I think because the winds are so strong right now.

But we're hoping that this ends by this evening. They're expecting this high wind to end by tonight at 6:00 p.m. local time. And things should get better. They're focused on these containment lines and making sure that the perimeter remains strong -- Jake.

TAPPER: Everyone must be exhausted, physically and emotionally. How are people handling this latest red flag warning?

MIRACLE: I mean, it's kind of like Groundhogs Day at this point, Jake, and you talk to a lot of people who are just packed and ready just in case something happens in their backyard. So many people are really on edge and just kind of waiting for these wind events to be over, and then also anticipating that their home could be next, that they could be evacuated next. Schools are closed in this area. So, it seems to be kind of a groundhogs day daily routine at this point. A lot of people exhausted -- Jake.

TAPPER: Rain is forecast for the weekend, thankfully, but is there any concern that that rain might trigger mudslides, as also happens in that part of the country?

MIRACLE: Of course. And actually, this is a really good example of how that would work, because all of this has now burned. This hillside is a perfect example. The fire came through here yesterday, so any rain that touches this is just going to, you know, cause this potentially to slide down.

A lot of the crews are working around here to secure these power poles to make sure that they're okay, because they did burn as well. And some of them broke in half. So that is definitely a concern. And that's why firefighters and utility crews are asking people to just be very vigilant as the next storm system comes through, Jake.

TAPPER: Veronica Miracle, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Just moments ago, President Trump signed an executive order allowing for a slew of documents that have been classified for more than six decades to finally become public. What else might we expect in this new administration, that's next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: To the forefront, right?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[16:37:38]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I went through four years of hell by this scum that we had to deal with. I went through four years of hell. I spent millions of dollars in legal fees, and I won.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Fact check: true. He did win.

We're back with the politics lead. President Trump there talking about his last four years of legal drama. He's charged in multiple criminal cases in New York, Georgia, two federal cases from the Department of Justice. But most of the most serious cases were essentially canceled. And then he wasn't punished for the Alvin Bragg case involving hush money cover up.

Let's bring in Maggie Haberman, White House correspondent for "The New York Times", author of the book "Confidence Man: The Making of Donald Trump and the Breaking of America".

And let's start there. Trump did ultimately emerge punishment free. That's not to say guilt free, but punishment free. And he's clearly very upset that so much of the last four years were caught up in these legal entanglements.

How much do you think that's going to motivate what Trump does in his term?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, Jake, time will tell. You know, he spent a number of months in the lead up to Election Day insisting that success would be his retribution, after initially suggesting retribution would be retribution and at various points, posting on his social media website suggesting various people should be punished or jailed or so forth.

We won't know until time goes on. So far, he is taking pretty aggressive moves that are clearly targeting people who he perceives as enemies, even if it doesn't relate to the investigations he was just talking about. But for instance, stripping the protective security details from Mike Pompeo, John Bolton and another aide at the State Department. Those are, you know, hard not to see, as, you know, some form of retribution.

But we won't know for a bit. He is clearly, as you say, very angry. And he is signaling that he believes somebody should pay.

TAPPER: President Trump was also asked about these last minute pardons by his predecessor, Joe Biden, and he had this note. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: This guy went around giving everybody pardons. And you know, the funny thing, maybe the sad thing is he didn't give himself a pardon. And if you look at it, it all had to do with him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So I don't know that he needed to, Mr. Biden, given the fact that there was this expansive immunity ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court about Trump that now applies to Biden.

[16:40:10]

But do you think Trump's Department of Justice will investigate Biden?

HABERMAN: It remains -- again, remains to be seen, Jake. I will say that, you know, Trump is not the only person who has expressed a lot of outrage about some of those preemptive pardons, especially the ones for President Biden's own family members. You know, preemptive pardons, not what happened with Hunter Biden. A lot of former Biden officials have been pretty surprised by it from folks I've been talking to.

But Trump seemed to be unless I was misunderstanding him, talking about activities that were taken before Biden was in office. You are correct. Biden has the same broad protection from the Supreme Court for official acts as president that President Trump now has that other presidents going forward will have, although that may be challenged going forward, depending on the presidency.

He seemed to be referring to moneymaking efforts by the Biden family prior to the presidency, and we'll see whether that turns into an investigation of some kind.

TAPPER: Yeah, the influence peddling by Hunter and James and others. And although it is possible, we don't know, but it is always possible for a president to pardon somebody and not announce it.

HABERMAN: That's true. That's true. TAPPER: I mean, so its possible Joe Biden pardoned himself and we

just don't know about it. Who knows? Joe Biden said a lot of precedents on his way out the door.

President Trump just signed an executive order declassifying files on the assassinations of Martin Luther King, Jr., former President John F. Kennedy, and Senator Robert F. Kennedy.

Let me first of all say, hooray! I'm really in favor of declassifying and really in favor of transparency. Trump has been really invested in these cases, especially the JFK assassination. Tell us why.

HABERMAN: So Trump, as you remember, Jake, partially did this in his first term, and then he wanted to allow, after the urging from some intelligence agencies for additional review time. And then that just sort of stretched on.

He has been urged by a number of people, but especially Robert F. Kennedy Jr., his choice to lead the Health and Human Services Department agency that he -- he should release everything, he should make everything public. You know, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. has privately told a number of people and he has, you know, alluded to this publicly that he believes that there is, you know, some information that the government has that the government had some role in what happened to his uncle. You know, his father was also assassinated. And so I think that that is why President Trump is going ahead with this.

I mean, listen to your point. There are a lot of people who would like to see full transparency. The government sometimes has arguments why that shouldn't happen, but this also should not be a surprise that Trump is going ahead with it.

TAPPER: Yeah. Bravo released it all and do the alien stuff, too. Area -- what is it? Area 51? Whatever it's called. Get to -- get that out.

HABERMAN: One of them.

TAPPER: Yeah. Maggie Haberman, thanks so much.

For more than 12 years now, American journalist Austin Tice has been missing. He is thought to have been abducted in Syria in 2012. His mother went to Syria following clues leading her to believe that her son may still be alive.

Coming up next, we're going to have a CNN special report. Clarissa Ward follows along with Austin Tice's mother, on this extremely emotional search.

Stay with us.

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[16:47:14]

TAPPER: Our world lead now, a powerful CNN report on a mothers search to find her son. That son being 43-year-old Austin Tice, a U.S. Marine Corps veteran who was in law school at Georgetown working as a freelance journalist in the summer of 2012. He was in Syria working on a piece of journalism when his family says he was detained at a checkpoint.

And more than 12 years later, Tice's mother is not only convinced her son is still alive after he disappeared that day, but that she will find him.

CNN's Clarissa Ward, in this report, went to Syria to join her mother, to join this mother in a heartbreaking search.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: This is the story of the lengths a mother will go to, to find her son. It's the story of so many Syrian mothers and one American.

For 12-1/2 years, Deborah Tice has not stopped looking for U.S. journalist Austin Tice. Taken at a regime checkpoint in Syria in 2012, he has been missing ever since. One of many thousands who disappeared in the prisons of Syrian dictator Bashar al-Assad.

Six weeks after Assad's ouster, Deborah is now going back to Damascus, joined by the head of Hostage Aid Worldwide, Nizar Zakka, who is coordinating the search.

DEBORAH TICE, MOTHER OF MISSING JOURNALIST AUSTIN TICE: Almost ten years since --

NIZAR ZAKKA, HEAD OF HOSTAGE AID WORLDWIDE: When was the last time, which was --

TICE: The last time I was here was in 2015 in May.

ZAKKA: Wow.

WARD: At the hotel in Damascus, a group of journalists eagerly await her arrival. But for now, there are more questions than answers.

TICE: It's hard for me to think about how -- what is my way forward here, you know? Austin has been held by the Syrian government all this time. Who -- who is holding him now? Where is he? How -- what is the approach? I mean, it's like it's first grade again.

WARD: And where -- where do you think he is? What do you know? What can you share?

TICE: I feel like he is still in Syria. And I do think its most likely he's in a safe house.

WARD: Are you saying that based on what you feel or what you know?

TICE: There's some of each. There's some of each.

WARD: Faith has played a vital role inward Deborah's journey. First thing Sunday morning, she heads to Saint Anthony's Church, the place she came to pray on an almost daily basis. When she first visited Damascus in 2014 and ended up staying three and a half months trying to gain Austin's release.

[16:50:03]

Prayers are needed by so many here dotted around the city. Fliers with photos of those who disappeared under the Assad regime, leaving devastated families desperately looking for answers.

For Deborah and Nizar, the prisons where they believe Austin was detained hold important clues. They visit Al-Khatib prison, where Nizar's team has discovered some graffiti that the Tice family is convinced was written by Austin.

Deborah has been stealing herself for this moment for weeks and is intent on seeing it for herself.

TICE: Okay.

WARD: Take a minute. Take a minute. Take a minute. Okay. Take a minute.

TICE: Okay.

WARD: Okay.

TICE: You want to hold that for me? Okay. I'm going to take this.

WARD: I'm going to hold the light for you.

TICE: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

WARD: All right. I'll hold the light for you.

TICE: Okay.

WARD: Okay, I'll go in first.

Okay, it's very small in here.

TICE: Okay.

Thank you.

WARD: The Tice family asked us not to show the graffiti itself out of respect for their privacy.

TICE: I'm going to stay in here for a minute, okay? Okay. I just want to be here in here for a minute. Just for a minute?

WARD: Sure.

TICE: I hardly even know what to say about that experience. It was beyond anything I could have imagined. These pictures don't even begin to tell you how. And unbelievably, unbelievably horrible, awful, terrible nightmare they are. WARD: At a press conference the next day, Deborah talks about her

experience visiting the prisons.

TICE: For all the mothers whose sons were disappeared in these dungeons, our hearts are joined. For all those looking now for answers about their family members, I am here with you in solidarity. We share --

WARD: Unlike those Syrian mothers, Deborah and Nizar were able to meet with Syria's new leader, Ahmed al-Sharaa, who offered support and confidence.

ZAKKA: He believes, like, all of us, that Austin is alive and he's going to be joined with his mom. And we promised him that when he's back, were going to come visit Sharaa again with Austin.

WARD: A lot of people will think after the fall of the Assad regime, after the prisons were opened, more than a month later, the fact that Austin doesn't turn up hasn't turned up is not a good sign. And there are many people who assume that he was likely killed.

How do you know? Or do you know with conviction that he is alive?

ZAKKA: We have enough information collected that. Austin is alive and is in a safe house, is controlled somehow by the regime.

Everybody, we are receiving this information from the highest sources, confirming what -- what we believe in. So we don't see any reason, any reason to think differently. In fact, we didn't have one thing. No, ever, nobody provided one single evidence that Austin is not alive.

WARD: It's Monday afternoon, the day of the inauguration of President Donald J. Trump. Have you been in contact with the Trump administration? Do you feel optimistic?

TICE: Oh, I feel hugely optimistic. And one of the main things is that his people reached out to me. I mean, they are in. They are ready. They want to go with it. They want Austin home.

WARD: Looking out at the city as the sun starts to fade, Deborah's hopes are high.

TICE: You remember the feeling of the babies almost. Do you know that kind of thing? Of just waiting, you know, when are we going to be together again? I have very much that kind of feeling.

WARD: Do you feel when you look around that you're closer to him?

TICE: Yes. I feel like I'm closer to him. I feel like he knows that I'm here.

All right.

WARD: The next morning, it's time to leave. But Deborah is certain she will be back and soon.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WARD (on camera): Jake, the Trump administration has not yet said publicly anything about where they believe Austin to be.

[16:55:00]

We did hear last week from former Secretary of State Antony Blinken in his final press conference. He said that they didn't have any updates, but that they had people on the ground who were leaving no stone unturned in the search for him.

For Debbie Tice and Nizar Zakka, they're really pinning a lot of their hopes on that meeting that they had with Ahmed al-Sharaa, the new leader of Syria. They spent two hours with him, which is a notable amount of time. They said he was confident that Austin is alive, that he is going to work very hard to make sure that he is reunited with his family.

But certainly, Jake, the next few weeks will be crucial because if someone was potentially holding Austin from the previous regime, waiting for a new administration in order to make some kind of a deal, and I say that very much hypothetically, then these next few weeks would be the likely time that we would start to hear or see some kind of rumblings as to where he may be and who might be holding him -- Jake.

TAPPER: Let us hope and pray. Clarissa Ward in Beirut, Lebanon, back from Damascus, thank you.

Just hours after taking office Monday, President Trump signed an executive order that will set its sights on ending birthright citizenship. Today, a federal judge blocked that order. Ahead, I'm going to talk to a U.S. attorney who went to court to stop the order and ask, what's next knowing Trump plans to challenge today's decision.

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TRUMP: It's ridiculous. We're the only --

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