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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Federal Judge Pauses Some Parts Of Trump Aid Freeze; Member Of "Tren De Aragua" Gang Arrested Overnight In NYC; Caroline Kennedy Accuses Cousin RFK Jr. Of Being A "Predator"; "Super/Man: The Christopher Reeve Story" Airs Sunday Feb. 2 At 8PM ET/PT; Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA), Is Interviewed About Stephen Miller Defends Trump's Federal Aid Freeze. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired January 28, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, a new show of force from the Trump administration as they crack down on illegal immigration. The new head of the Department of Homeland Security is on scene as agents carried out operations in New York. The mayor of Denver, another city reported to be a top priority for this crackdown, is going to talk to us ahead.
Leading this hour, we just heard from a key White House official, Stephen Miller, who has President Trump's ear as the White House tries to clear up exactly what President Trump's pause on federal grants and loans means and whom it affects. Despite any new guidance, many organizations are still quite confused and concerned about how this could impact their services. The head of Meals on Wheels, which feeds millions of vulnerable seniors, is going to join us live in moments to talk about how this could affect them. But we're going to start with CNN's Kaitlan Collins, who's at the White House for us.
KC, Miller -- Mr. Miller had a lot to say on actions that the administration is already taking. What did you make of what we just heard? One of the things that struck me is the fact that they're still keeping the door open for using the Insurrection act to use the military to go after undocumented immigrants in cities. But that's not the plan right now.
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, and that would obviously be notable, Jake, because to take people back down memory lane about a, I guess, four or five years ago when Mark Esper was the Pentagon secretary, he refused to carry out that and to invoke that. That was something that he said he believed was not necessary in should only be used as a last resort. So that would obviously be quite a change to see a defense secretary who would be willing to carry that out. Obviously, we've seen how closely they are tying the military to this mass deportation effort. Right now we haven't seen a huge change in the numbers. That is something that we are keeping an eye on as this is going out.
In terms of the number of people who are being deported, in terms of the number of flights that are going out, we are seeing them use military aircraft even though it's a lot more expensive for the taxpayers than it is for a chartered flight. Tom Homan told me last night that's because they can get more people on those flights, he argues. But, Jake, really the focus here at the White House today, and certainly in that briefing earlier, was this pause on federal funding for trillions of dollars in the federal government that came out last night. And Stephen Miller argued that there is no confusion over this, but we are seeing that from a lot of states, not just from Democrats on Capitol Hill, who believe this is an unlawful encroachment on what exactly is their purview, which is the purse. I mean, Congress is what allocates the spending here and the president signs it into law.
And all this money that is frozen right now is money and the Congress has already allocated. That was the question earlier that I had for the press secretary in terms of who advised on the legality of telling these government agencies they don't have to spend money right now that Congress has already said, here's the money to spend on X, Y, Z. And that's a real big question about the legal challenges that this is going to face. We've already seen people threatening to sue. We know there's a court case coming up.
How does a judge see this? And do they believe -- and do they agree with the White House that Trump does have the authority to do this and to cause this entire funding freeze? I think that's still a big question right now, Jake.
TAPPER: You were in the room, the briefing room, when the brand new White House press secretary, Karoline Leavitt, gave her first briefing to reporters. You pressed her on the legality of these sweeping executive actions, including the federal funding and grant freeze. Tell us more about that.
COLLINS: Yes, Jake. You're seeing how the White House counsel, which played a big role in Trump's first term, is also playing a big role in his first week this time around in terms of the funding freeze, which they talked about, him getting advice from his White House counsel on that matter, but also on two other big actions that he took in the last few days. There's been a lot to keep up with, obviously. But on Friday night, multiple inspectors general, the government watchdogs of multiple agencies, more than a dozen were summarily fired without giving Congress that 30-day legally required notification about why they are firing an inspectors general. That's why, as you noted, even allies of this White House, Republicans up on Capitol Hill are asking questions to the White House about it.
People like Senator Lindsey Graham have said that they do believe that they broke the law in doing that and that they need to follow the law next time. But also about these career prosecutors that were fired, Jake, the ones who were on the investigations into Trump himself. I asked Karoline Leavitt about whether or not they believe they do have the authority to do so earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COLLINS: On what happened on Friday night, the administration fired several inspectors general without giving Congress the 30 day legally required notification that they were being fired. I think only two were left at DHS and the DOJ. And then yesterday, we saw several prosecutors, I believe 12 fired from the Justice Department who worked on the investigations into the president. As you know, they are career prosecutors. Therefore, they are afforded civil service protections.
How is the administration deciding which laws to follow and which ones to ignore?
KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: So it is the belief of this White House, in the White House counsel's office that the president was within his executive authority to do that. He is the executive of the executive branch, and therefore he has the power to fire anyone within the executive branch that he wishes to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:05:05]
COLLINS: Now, Jake, that is up for discussion and a real question, because there is a chance that some of those people who were fired file lawsuits here and they are afforded civil service protections. There are certainly people at the Justice Department that Trump can come in and fire. Every president gets the right to do so. But there are other attorneys who are supposed to be insulated from politics and supposed to remain in those positions despite whether they worked on sensitive negotiations or sensitive investigations or not. And they were all fired.
So that is still an open question of what this looks like, given that, Jake. And also I just think it speaks to over this last week, what we are seeing between the federal funding freeze and what is happening with the inspectors general and these prosecutors. Is the White House being willing to push the rule of law, essentially, and to test that even if it winds up in front of the courts? That seems to be something that they are welcoming here, Jake.
TAPPER: Yes, I mean, Stephen Miller said they don't think the law is constitutional, so they just ignored it, which is an interesting way to deal with Congress. Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.
And you probably didn't get enough of Kaitlan just now. I mean, I know I didn't. She's going to have much more tonight on "The Source." That's tonight and every weeknight at 9:00 Eastern only here on CNN. Thanks, KC.
We've got some breaking news for you now on President Trump's pause on federal aid. Let's get straight to CNN's Paula Reid.
Paula?
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, just moments ago a federal judge ordered an administrative state. So that is a temporary pause on the Trump administration's move to free of various federal aid programs. Of course, there's been a lot of chaos and confusion since they said that they were going to do this. So right now most of this policy is on hold until Monday while the courts allow both sides to weigh in and fully brief their arguments.
Now, this was the first hearing challenging Trump's administrative freeze on federal aid programs. It was brought by several nonprofit organizations who were asking the judge to block this program. They were saying that they only had about 24 hours notice that this was going to happen leaving some of their organizations, they said, in, quote, "disarray."
They also argued separately that they believe that this policy is a violation of the First Amendment because they believe the administration will only give additional money to organizations that align with their political beliefs. Now, the Justice Department also had a chance to weigh in here. They argued that a lot of this confusion should be settled by the guidance that was released by the government. They also insisted that these nonprofit organizations had not shown clear harm from this policy. But clearly the judge, a Biden appointee who was recently appointed to the bench, disagreed.
So she said she's going to put in place this temporary pause on any money or funds that have already been awarded that were already expected. But she is not blocking the administration's ability to stop granting new funds to new organizations. So again, this is a blow to the Trump administration, but it is only a temporary pause while they argue the larger constitutional questions at play here.
TAPPER: All right, Paula Reid, thanks so much.
Let's go to CNN's Chief Congressional Correspondent, Manu Raju, who's live in Doral, Florida, right outside Miami. That's where House Republicans are currently holding their annual policy retreat. What a, what a coincidence that it's a Trump resort.
Manu, is there clarity among the House Republicans with whom you're speaking about whom this federal spending pause might impact if it goes into effect?
MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: There really isn't. In fact, Jake, most Republicans down the line were defending Donald Trump's decision to do this even though they themselves passed the legislation appropriating this money that Donald Trump decided to hold back on. And that includes the chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, Tom Cole, who suggested to me that this was not a violation of the law.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: What is the law?
REP. TOM COLE (R-OK): Well, an appropriation is not a law, you know, it's directive of Congress. But regardless, again, I don't mind slowing things down.
REP. ANDY BARR (R-KY): I think that's an overblown concern. Those kind of horror stories or scenarios, that's not going to come to pass.
RAJU: What are the implications long term if this --
REP. DON BACON (R-NE): This means people will have to shut down their programs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RAJU: So that last comment coming from one of the three Republicans who represent districts that Kamala Harris won back in November, Don Bacon, raising concerns about if this were to go on for the long term and calling for this to happen on a short term basis. Now, we have not heard from the speaker himself, Jake. We do expect to hear from him in a matter of moments. I did catch up with the number two Republican, Steve Scalise, just moments ago and he also defended Donald Trump on this move. So, very little dissension from this House GOP, even though they themselves are the ones who control the purse strings of this federal money that Donald Trump's White House tried to temporarily hold back that led to all this outrage today, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Manu Raju, thanks so much.
Joining us now is the president and CEO of Meals on Wheels America. It's a nonprofit organization for thousands of local affiliates that deliver food to seniors in their homes. Ellie Hollander joins us now.
Ellie, thanks so much. So just a few minutes ago, a federal judge apparently blocked some of this aid freeze. What is your reaction to that?
[17:10:07]
ELLIE HOLLANDER, PRESIDENT AND CEO, MEALS ON WHEELS AMERICA: Well, I think what -- Jake, hello and thanks for having me. I think what we really are looking for is clarification about what programs are really being looked at as being paused. Are these programs delivering what they should? Are they saving taxpayer dollars? Are they efficient?
And I think the uncertainty, the chaos that has happened since last evening when we heard about this has caused a lot of grave concern on the part of older adults who rely on Meals on Wheels as a lifeline and the providers who were there day in and day out to provide this service, which is good nutrition, but also a friendly visit, a check in, a wellness and safety check.
TAPPER: So Stephen Miller, the domestic policy advisor to President Trump was on the show a few minutes ago and he said Wheels on Meals. I think this is what he said. The Wheels on Meals shouldn't be accepted -- shouldn't be affected. Wheels on Wheels would be fine because it provides a service and that this is all just a lot of confusion because of liberal media spinning out of control.
I don't know how to get a reaction from you on that, but what is your response? How did you first learn about this? Was it from the memo from the Office of Management and Budget?
HOLLANDER: Yes, through the memo. But also there is a spreadsheet that was circulated by OMB that listed programs that are grant funded. Now, a lot of people don't realize that Meals on Wheels, 37 percent of that funding comes through the Older Americans Act, specifically the Older Americans Act Nutrition Program. And that is on the list as a grant funded program, which it is because the actual support for Meals on Wheels goes from the federal government to the states down through eventually to Meals on Wheels. Providers who deliver provide those meals to seniors in need.
So, it is not directly provided to the senior. The funding is not going directly to the individual, which is what I think the memo said that programs would be exempt if the funding is going directly to an individual like Medicare, Social Security.
TAPPER: Right.
HOLLANDER: But in the case of Meals on Wheels, I think there's just a lack of understanding of how the where the funding comes from.
TAPPER: I think it's pretty clear that the memo was confusing. Did this affect anything today? Did seniors not get fed today because of this or no?
HOLLANDER: Look, I can just tell you that our Meals and Wheels providers will do everything in their power because they're first frontline, first responders to make sure that they are doing everything to serve seniors in need. But what's important, Jake, is that already we have had in our country waiting lists where programs on average have seniors on waiting lists for up to one to three months because they have not had the resources to meet the need, the growing need, the senior population as well as inflation, which affects, of course, the two things that keep us running, food and fuel, which has increased tremendously. So already we've had seniors on waiting list. What we want to do is make sure that we're actually investing in those programs that are delivering value and that are saving taxpayer dollars.
TAPPER: All right, President and CEO of Meals on Wheels America, Ellie Hollander, thank you so much and God bless you and what you and your workers do. Appreciate it.
For more reaction, let's bring in our panel. So in Manu Raju's report, we heard from Republican Congressman Andy Barr, who said, quote, that -- he said the concern is, quote, "overblown." Here is the other side of the aisle, Democratic leader Chuck Schumer earlier today talking about the Trump administration's federal aid freeze. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY), MINORITY LEADER: It's a dagger at the heart of the average American family in red states, in blue states, in cities, in suburbs, in rural areas. It is just outrageous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent, what's your take on all this?
CHARLIE DENT, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: My take is this, that these funds have been authorized and appropriated by the Congress. The Congress does not tell the executive these funds are -- they're not acting in an advisory capacity. This is a command. When the Congress passes an appropriations law, the executive shall spend that money. The executive has very little authority to impound money or even freeze it on a temporary basis.
So I think that the Trump administration is in trouble. This actually reminds me, this actually reminds me of the travel ban from Trump one where they issued an executive order, created mayhem at the airports and it took a while to sort it all out. I feel like that's what's happening right now. And in fact, there's lawyers in Washington, I'm sure, are just salivating right now because everybody's calling their lawyers and they're going to be lawsuits flying every which way. Who was exempted from this order, who is not?
There is a lot of ambiguity here. We're not sure how pervasive this pause is, but it's creating -- it's wreaking havoc. And so I suspect, you know, the judge's order may have helped, but Congress's authority here is clear in the Constitution. In Article 1 authority, the president cannot impound funds.
[17:15:11]
TAPPER: Bakari, you're an attorney, I don't know if you were listening to Stephen Miller earlier today, but he basically just said he doesn't think that it's constitutional for Congress to mandate that President Trump give a 30-day notice as the law would require before he fires inspectors general. And I'm wondering if you think that that is emblematic of kind of the Trump administration's posture here, just we're going to do what we're going to do and we'll see if anybody challenge us.
BAKARI SELLERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think so. And I think whether or not you're looking at the firing of the inspector generals or this chaos caused by this governmental freeze, you're seeing that Stephen Miller is putting his thumbprint on, you know, the future of what this country looks like. And Project 2025, which people talked about till they were blue in the face, is actually coming to fruition. This is chaos.
And I actually applaud Congressman Dent for going back to the Muslim ban because we were told that this was going to be a different Trump administration, that you weren't going to have the chaos that we saw in the first one. But here we are again and you're talking about the devastating effects of this on SNAP recipients, WIC recipients, federal aid and grant recipients. But Democrats apparently have been caught flat footed, Jake. And that's the most disappointing thing. I mean, the House Democrats have a meeting tomorrow over something that's urgent today.
And then we rolled out Chuck Schumer. I mean, I think that when you have institutions and places that are affected, we need to go to our constituents quickly. Those voices need to be up 15, 30 second ads talking about how this affects them. My daughter actually receives federal grant money to go to Howard University. Benedict College, right down the street, 95 percent of their $65 million budget is from federal grant and aid money.
The uncertainty, old folk who can't get meals on wheels, we don't need to hear from Chuck Schumer. We need to hear from people who are actually affected. And it's so -- it's just malpractice that Democrats suck at this so bad that we're allowing Donald Trump and Stephen Miller to run roughshod on what our government looks like. And people are running the wrong -- learning the wrong lessons from what happened in November 5th.
TAPPER: Bakari, Congressman Dent, good to see both of you. Thank you so much.
Coming up, the chilling effect we're already seeing in one major city as the Trump administration's crackdown on undocumented immigration plays out. Plus how the Trump administration is trying to draw attention to what's going down. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:21:23]
TAPPER: The Trump crackdown on undocumented migrants led to a major arrest in New York City. Federal agents arrested a high ranking member of the Tren de Aragua gang overnight. The gang member has a criminal history that includes burglary, kidnapping, extortion, firearms possession, and other charges. Officials say he has committed multiple violent crimes in New York City as well as in Aurora, Colorado.
Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem was on scene as the New York crackdown happened. And she splashed these images on social media, essentially making something of a show of it. So far, more than 24 undocumented migrants are in custody, but the operation is still ongoing. CNN's Gloria Pazmino has more on this crackdown for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Fear and uncertainty in New York City's immigrant community as federal law enforcement agencies launch immigration enforcement operations expected to last several days.
SARAHI MARQUEZ, DACA RECIPIENT: I feel scared. I feel nervous. I feel anxious.
PAZMINO (voice-over): Sarahi Marquez, a DACA recipient, was brought to the United States by her parents when she was six years old. She has degrees in psychology and biology and helps run the family restaurant here on Staten Island. For the past two weeks, workers have become increasingly panicked.
MARQUEZ: We work long days. We're just trying to make a better place. And I wanted to speak out and not let fear intimidate me.
PAZMINO (voice-over): Since Trump signed his executive orders, Marquez has instructed her workers to memorize her phone number. Some are arranging transportation to and from work to avoid walking on the street.
MARQUEZ: It feels like we're hunted down. And I say to myself, what more can I do to prove myself? TOM HOMAN, IMMIGRATION POLICY ADVICER: We're sending a message. It is not OK to be in this country illegally. It is not OK to enter this country illegally. It is a crime. And there's going to be consequences.
PAZMINO (voice-over): More than 200 federal law enforcement officers fanned out across the city on Tuesday. Secretary of Homeland Security Kristi Noem joined early morning enforcement operations. Fear is also spreading across the city's migrant shelters. Parents declined to speak on camera, but some told us they've kept their children from school in recent days out of fear ICE could show up at school or that they will be picked up in any operations. Others told us they have no choice.
Hennessy Romero (ph) says she takes her daughter to school so she can go to work. She feels some comfort thanks to her temporary protected status after fleeing Venezuela. But she worries some bad apples will ruin the American dream of many.
It's selfish, she says of President Trump's directive. We're here to work and provide for our families and the future of our children, she says.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PAZMINO (on camera): Now, Jake, the city's Department of Education tells us they have not yet recorded a significant drop off in attendance, but they are closely watching the data. As you said, today's operation here in New York City led to 24 arrests, including that well known Tren de Aragua gang member.
And the many migrants I spoke to today told me that they agree that people like him should be arrested and deported, but they worry that this administration will not know the difference or care between the criminals and people trying to make an honest living. Jake.
TAPPER: They said that. They said they don't see a difference at the White House press briefing today. All of them are criminals if they're in the country illegal, the press secretary said.
[17:25:00]
Gloria Pazmino, thanks so much.
Cities across the nation are vulnerable to raids just like the one we saw in New York City. Let's bring in the mayor of Denver, Colorado, Mike Johnston.
Mayor Johnston, good to see you. So we know a high ranking member of the Tren de Aragua gang who has committed crimes in your area was arrested by federal agents during that raid in New York City. Are you relieved that he was caught?
MAYOR MIKE JOHNSTON, (D) DENVER: We're happy to see any enforcement against gang members. Our police department is working on that here in Denver. We'll work in partnership on that. So yes, whenever we're getting violent criminals off the streets, we're supportive of that, no matter where they're from.
TAPPER: CNN has previously reported that Denver is one of the top targets for ICE under President Trump, who spoke about the metro area in his remarks last night that make it clear Denver metro area is a priority for the president, including the city of Aurora, which was targeted over the weekend. So take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to get him the hell out of here. And members of the savage Venezuelan prison gang known as Tren de Agua and MS-13, including 50 violent individuals who were rounded up in Aurora, Colorado, which the Venezuelan gang took over. The governor, who's a radical left governor, was petrified. He didn't know what to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: How is Denver planning to respond to any future such raids in the metro area?
JOHNSTON: I mean, to be clear, Jake, we've been very aggressive on enforcement around any of this activity. We were early with covert and overt operations in Denver to identify TDA members, arrest them, prosecute them. So we've been very aggressive on this. I think we know and are prepared for the fact that there may be ICE operations here. If they're targeting violent criminals, we'll support that and we'll collaborate.
I think what we're worried about is we don't want people targeting schools or churches or hospitals. We think it fundamentally infringes on the public safety of a city if you can't go to the hospital and feel secure there or take your kids to school. So we really want to make sure they're not targeting protected populations or protected places.
TAPPER: Right. And that's the issue, right, because it does seem that House Republicans, inspired by President Trump and led by Congressman James Comer are calling on mayors of sanctuary cities that don't cooperate with federal authorities for cases like the ones you just mentioned involving hospitals or churches or schools to testify next month about the sanctuary city policy's impact on public safety. Given the refusal to cooperate with federal Immigration enforcement, have you been invited? Do you plan on attending the hearing? And what is the argument against what Comer and Trump are calling you to do?
JOHNSTON: Yes, we've been invited. We've been in contact with their staff and their team. You know, look, we're open to a conversation about comprehensive federal immigration reform and what Congress can do to help make the situation in cities much easier to manage. I think what we know is the biggest challenge here is not crime. We've seen a decrease in crime during the increased arrival of newcomers.
We know the incidence of crime is lowest among our population, almost any of our populations. When it does exist, we address it quickly and resolve it. The real question is, what do we do with the dreamers who are here and have been here for 10 or 20 years? What do we do with folks who came in and played by the rules and are waiting on their day in court asylum seekers or TPS recipients? You want to make sure those populations get their fair day in court and make their case.
And those folks are right now on the job contributing to our economy. We don't think any employers in the city want them pulled off the job and deported when they're contributing.
TAPPER: As you saw, new Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem joined with federal law enforcement overnight in the raid in New York City. She posted a number of pictures and videos to Twitter or X showing law enforcement executing warrants for undocumented migrants. Secretary Noem, front and center in many of the pictures. What do you make of her handling of these raids and the photos she shared with the American people?
JOHNSTON: Yes, we know that some of this is substance and some of this is theater. But I think what we're focusing on is how we run cities that are smooth and safe for the folks that live here. And we want to make sure that there's order and not chaos. We don't have any incentive for chaos. As mayors, we want folks to get regular access to public services.
So, we'll help collaborate on folks that are violent criminals. We're going to help protect our churches and schools and hospitals and our populations that are waiting on a fair day in court to make sure they're not targeted unnecessarily.
And Jake, that's we saw in places like Chicago, almost half the folks that they detained were not criminals. They were folks that just happened to be in the house or in the neighborhood when they did actions. We think that's not what America is looking for or expecting.
TAPPER: Mayor Mike Johnston, thank you so much. Appreciate it.
On the eve of the confirmation hearings for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. to be Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, RFK Jr.'s cousin, Caroline Kennedy, is calling him a predator. Hear her warning message to senators before tomorrow's testimony.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:30:53]
TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, President Trump's pick to be Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., is accused of being a, quote, predator. And amazingly, that accusation is coming from Caroline Kennedy, his first cousin, the daughter of former President John F. Kennedy. Caroline Kennedy read her warning letter to senators in a new video.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAROLINE KENNEDY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO AUSTRALIA: He lacks any relevant government, financial, management or medical experience. His views on vaccines are dangerous and willfully misinformed. These facts alone should be disqualifying. But he has personal qualities related to this job, which for me pose even greater concern. I've known Bobby my whole life. We grew up together. It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets, because Bobby himself is a predator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's bring in CNN's Arlette Saenz on Capitol Hill. Arlette, I mean, stunning, stunning. And this is the first time we're hearing Caroline Kennedy speak so publicly about her cousin, RFK Jr. Of course, she was an ambassador last year, so she said she kept her mouth shut. Tell us more about what she has to say.
[17:35:05]
ARLETTE SAENZ, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, this really was a stark and scathing, very personal warning from Caroline Kennedy about her cousin, Robert F. Kennedy, on the eve of his confirmation hearings up here on Capitol Hill -- Hill. In that six minute video, she spoke at length about troubling behavior she has seen and also accused him of taking hypocritical stances on vaccines. Here's a bit more of her warning to lawmakers tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KENNEDY: Bobby is addicted to attention and power. Bobby preys on the desperation of parents of sick children, vaccinating his own kids while building a following, hypocritically discouraging other parents from vaccinating theirs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SAENZ: Now, this is a very rare moment. You haven't heard from Caroline Kennedy out there publicly criticizing her cousin, Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. Though there have been other family members in the Kennedy clan who have spoken out about some of his political ambitions over the last year.
Now, it's unclear whether this letter that she sent to these lawmakers urging them to oppose his nomination will actually carry any sway with Republicans who might be on the fence about Kennedy. But that issue of vaccines is one that we have heard from Republican senators up here on Capitol Hill, some who have expressed concern saying they want Kennedy to be more clear about his stances.
There's also the issue of abortion. Senator Joni Ernst is someone who has said she wants to hear a public commitment from Kennedy about his views on abortion. All of this will come up in the upcoming hearings that are set to take place over the next two days, tomorrow in the Senate Finance Committee and then on Thursday at the Senate Health Committee as well as Kennedy is one of the vulnerable Republican nominees that President Trump has put forward.
TAPPER: His position on vaccines is -- is very clear. He spouts complete nonsense that's been discredited by the medical community and he's been doing this for -- for 20 years. Arlette Saenz, thanks so much. I hope that cleared -- I cleared that up for the Republican senators out there.
Senator Elizabeth Warren is here in studio. I'm going to get her reaction to my big interview moments ago with Stephen Miller. Plus, the funding freeze now blocked temporarily by a federal judge. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:41:04]
TAPPER: In our Health Lead, actor Christopher Reeve became a spokesman for the disability community after his tragic spinal cord injury, bringing the Americans with Disabilities Act to the forefront of people's minds. CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, now explores how Reeves advocacy for the ADA continues to impact lives long after Reeve's death.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): You're watching 18-year-old Brandon Simmons first time back in public since last November. That's when a car accident left him with a C5 spinal cord injury.
BRANDON SIMMONS, SPINAL CORD INJURY PATIENT: I was excited to get out be -- because that was my first trip, but also I was kind of afraid because I didn't know how it was going to be my first time being in a wheelchair out in public and how people was going to look at me.
AVERY BLANKENBURG, RECREATION THERAPIST AT SHEPHERD CENTER: That's OK. You're allowed to have a bag.
SIMMONS: OK. OK.
BLANKENBURG: You just have to say it's medically necessary.
SIMMONS: Yes, ma'am.
GUPTA (voice-over): But that is exactly why the Shepherd Center here in Atlanta uses outings like these to help people reintegrate back into daily life and navigate physical spaces in a new way.
BLANKENBURG: In public places, there has to be an -- an accessible entrance.
GUPTA (voice-over): Today he has the help of Avery Blankenburg, a recreation therapist.
BLANKENBURG: We get our patients out here in the aquarium specifically because, one, they have to navigate crowds. The more comfortable they can get out and about then the more they'll likely do it at home.
This is an accessible mat so that wheelchair users can get up to the front.
SIMMONS: I was thinking, like, people going to look at me different places.
BLANKENBURG: Yes.
SIMMONS: It feels the same.
GUPTA (voice-over): But nearly 35 years ago, this would have been more challenging.
SIMMONS: Look at that tail.
BLANKENBURG: Yes. I know.
GUPTA (voice-over): Or even nearly impossible.
GEORGE H. W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I now lift my pen to sign this Americans with Disability Act.
GUPTA (voice-over): But in 1990s, the Americans with Disability Act, the ADA, set out to change that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody's looking for a hero.
GUPTA (voice-over): And it would soon find a champion, a hero, who like Brandon, had to adapt to a new way of life.
CHRISTOPHER REEVE, ACTOR: It must be honored everywhere. It is a civil rights law that is tearing down barriers both in architecture and in attitude.
ALEXANDRA REEVE GIVENS, CHRISTOPHER REEVE'S DAUGHTER: We internalized it when we tried to go out with our dad to restaurants for dinner and he couldn't get in the door because the restaurants hadn't adapted yet.
GUPTA (voice-over): Alexandra Reeve is Christopher's daughter.
GIVENS: Our dad fought really hard to kind of put a human face on that and help people connect to it.
GUPTA: The Americans with Disability Act, I mean what is it today versus what was it intended to be?
GIVENS: I think the reality is the ADA is about a lot more than just the accessibility of buildings. What it really needs to continue being is people when they're hiring folks for a job or insurance companies when they're thinking about whether or not they're covering someone's physical therapy, there's so many different ways that these barriers manifest that end up holding people back unnecessarily just because others aren't necessarily thinking about how it's going to impact them.
GUPTA (voice-over): But the impact for someone like Brandon is very real.
SIMMONS: My dad always tell me, don't ever say you can't do anything. You can always do something. It just may take time. GUPTA (voice-over): Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN, reporting.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: Our thanks to Sanjay Gupta for that report.
Tune in, the BAFTA nominated documentary Super/Man: The Christopher Reeve Story airs Sunday, February 2nd at 8:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on CNN.
[17:44:29]
There's a lot to discuss about the actions of this brand new Trump administration and Senator Elizabeth Warren from the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts is coming up next on The Lead to discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, more fallout from President Trump's decision to fire inspectors general from 18 offices without giving Congress the required 30-day notice. I asked top White House official, Stephen Miller, about that just a few minutes ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The law says 30 days, Stephen. The law says, you have -- you have Congress 30 days.
STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: And I'm telling you what the Constitution says with respect to the president's authority.
TAPPER: Do you think the law is unconstitutional?
MILLER: Absolutely it is. I don't even think it is. I know it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts is here. So they didn't abide by the 30-day notice because they don't think it's constitutional.
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D-MA): You know, but think about that definition of Constitution. If I don't like it, he seems to be saying, then it must not be constitutional. Look, Congress writes those laws. We pass them with majorities in the House and the Senate. They are signed into law by a president of the United States and they become law.
And we do put constraints on the ability of a president of the United States to be able to fire someone. And evidently Mr. Miller and President Trump just think rules are for other people, not for them.
[17:50:11]
TAPPER: So let's talk about the Trump administration's freeze on federal aid, which went into effect 49 minutes and 46 seconds ago. I asked Stephen Miller about that as well. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILLER: There's zero impact on public benefit programs, full stop, as OMB has made clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So because I was specifically asking about Meals on Wheels.
WARREN: Sure.
TAPPER: And he said that should not be affected. That's a public benefit program. Is -- is that your understanding?
WARREN: You know, I don't know where he gets that. I've read the two- page order. And all it says is in effect, stop spending federal money. So I'm getting calls right now. We've got an organization, soldier on out in western Massachusetts, they provide meals. They're trying to do transitional housing for homeless vets to get them into permanent housing, doing really great work. They got to pay the rent in five days. They don't know if they can use some of the federal funding. They have to do that.
In fact, they're trying to put on dinner right now for these folks. You know, head start, there's a federal program. Mamas and daddies want to know, can I still drop off my little one tomorrow? Is that still possible? Seniors who are in nursing homes, you realize about half the folks there are funded through federal programs. That's where a lot of our Medicaid dollars go, are seniors who need that support to be in nursing homes.
So we're being flooded with calls from people who are trying to do their work, from community health centers that are trying to keep the doors open. And these are people who run their operations on the thinnest possible margins. And they just want to know, can they open up again tomorrow morning.
TAPPER: Miller says that the -- that the executive order and the OMB memo were crystal clear. And the only people are confused is because of the liberal media reporting this incorrectly, inaccurately. That's what he said.
WARREN: Look, we've got people who try to keep community health centers open, day care centers open, nursing home centers open. And they are literally trying to read off social media what the heads of agencies or other people in the government are telling them to do. It is chaos. And look, Miller can say whatever he wants. He can say up is down, he can say in is out. But that's not the reality. People are struggling with the fact that they can't figure out what they're supposed to do.
But here's the bigger point, Jake, do understand this is DOGE and the President saying that they want to cut money and look at how they want to do it.
TAPPER: Well, you're getting a little bit ahead of me because I'm bringing you in DOGE --
WARREN: OK.
TAPPER: -- for people who haven't been paying attention, is the Department of Government Efficiency. It's Trump and Elon Musk trying to get rid of wasteful spending. You wrote an op-ed for "Fox" of all places about cutting federal waste, agreeing with Elon Musk and Trump that it needs to happen. You write in quote -- in part, why give up so quickly on beating back the defense contractors, health insurance giants, and other huge companies that are ripping off the American people? If Musk and Trump have the courage to cut this waste, I've got a plan and 30 specific recommendations to get it done, unquote.
So, I mean, first of all, you know, kudos to you. There's fat all over the place, and why not trim it from everywhere? You sent your recommendations to Mr. Musk last week. Have you heard back?
WARREN: No, have not yet heard back. But here's the deal. You can watch what happened today along with the suggestions I sent. On the one hand, what Donald Trump, Stephen Miller and Elon Musk are all saying is let's make life a little harder for homeless veterans, for little kids, for seniors living in nursing homes, for people at community health centers. Let's give them a little less money so that they can do the cuts for billionaires.
And let's not do the kinds of cuts that I had suggested. I gave them a list of 30 cuts that would fall on defense contractors.
TAPPER: Give me one. Give me one of your cuts.
WARREN: Oh, easy defense contractors. Here's a good thing.
TAPPER: I love it when I give you a pop quiz.
WARREN: Do you. Do you. Yes. Here's a good one. So here's a product. These soap dish dispensers. Think of a soap dish dispenser that costs a dollar to make. Put that in your brain.
TAPPER: A dollar.
WARREN: OK. So how much does the federal government get charged by a defense contractor for that soap dish?
TAPPER: I'm guessing it's not a dollar.
WARREN: It is not a dollar. It is $7,900. There is room to cut in the defense budget that plenty of waste and fraud to get rid of. Same kind of thing over. Can we do a quick one on --
TAPPER: Yes, real quick.
WARREN: -- on Medicare advantage?
TAPPER: Yes.
WARREN: Estimates are that it's about $83 billion of fraud every year. Think about that over 10 years, we could cut a trillion dollars in fraud out of that system.
[17:55:07]
TAPPER: All right. Well, Elon Musk --
WARREN: Lots to do.
TAPPER: -- President Trump, Secretary Hegseth, whatever you got, there's some ideas right there. Senator Warren, good to see you as always.
WARREN: Good to see you.
TAPPER: Thanks so much. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: The Trump administration is set to offer buyouts to federal workers who do not want to return to work in the office. Trump ordered federal workers to return to in person work. Many have had flexible work arrangements since the COVID pandemic. A Trump administration official tells CNN that workers who accept the buyout will need to quit by February 6th, and they will get severance pay through September.
In our Sports Lead, the remarkable human feet deserving of this roaring crowd cheer. That's Kim Caldwell, head coach of the Lady Volunteers at University of Tennessee. She was back on the sidelines as her team faced South Carolina last night, just one week after Caldwell gave birth to a baby boy and she had the flu. After the game, South Carolina coach, Dawn Staley, said, quote, women have the strength of 10 men, no doubt about it.
[18:00:22]
The news continues on CNN with Boris Sanchez in for Wolf Blitzer right next door in a place I like to call The Situation Room. I'll see you tomorrow.