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The Lead with Jake Tapper

White House Rescinds Controversial Federal Aid Freeze Memo; RFK Jr. Says He Is "Not Antivaccine" Despite Past Statements; RFK Jr. Grilled At Department Of Health Confirmation Hearing; Trump To Prepare Guantanamo To House 30,000 Migrants; Defense Secretary Hegseth Pulls Security Detail And Clearance For Trump Critic Gen. Mark Milley; Poor Test Scores Among U.S. Students Raise Concerns. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 29, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Making little improvement in math. Why? And are there any silver linings in the results at all?

Plus, President Trump announcing a new phase of his crackdown on illegal immigration, saying the government is preparing to house tens of thousands of these undocumented migrants at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the Navy base well known for its detention camp where the United States holds terrorism detainees. But does it have a migrant processing center there? We're going to go live to Cuba ahead.

And leading this hour, that sweeping freeze on federal aid that confused millions of Americans and sent cities, nonprofits and organizations scrambling yesterday was rather short lived. The White House has now rescinded the memo detailing that funding pause, reversing course less than two days after it was released.

CNN's chief White House correspondent and anchor Kaitlan Collins live for us at the White House as is our treat to have her every 5:00 p.m. at the top of the show. Kaitlan, the White House insisted that this memo was straightforward, clear as day, not at all confusing. So why'd they rescind it?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, obviously, they were getting a lot of feedback, Jake, here at the White House, not just from reports that it was confusing. They were getting calls directly from lawmakers and state officials, from people saying there were questions about health, hospitals and schools and nonprofits that did not know what that freeze that was put in place on Monday night meant for them and a lot of questions about the impact that it was going to have and even what was affected.

And just to give you a scope of how big this was on Monday night, it was so large that White House officials were still going through it to see everything that was affected, to be able to tell lawmakers and state officials and governors who were calling, no, this program isn't affected or yes, this one is.

And so it just really did prompt a lot of confusion from Capitol Hill, certainly a lot of pushback from Democrats who were saying that it was an illegal move on Donald Trump's part when he signed this or when he signed the executive orders and then put this memo into place on Monday night out of the Office and Management and Budget.

So it was that memo that was issued on Monday night that they received earlier today in about a two-sentence memo that was also issued by the Office of Management and Budget. But the White House is pointing to executive orders that Trump signed to argue that this is still in place. And while several of those do freeze some funding pools, it is not as big as the trillions of dollars that were frozen on Monday night.

So the impact of this is still unclear. And it's also notable, Jake, because this is not a president who is backed down very much, if at all, since he took office just a little over a week ago. This is a sign that they did understand the clarity that was needed when it came to this memo and the confusion over that.

The question after a federal judge temporarily blocked it yesterday afternoon is what they do going forward and if they try to reinstate, institute these freezes on this federal funding to make sure it aligns with his agenda.

TAPPER: Kaitlan, you also have some new reporting on the settlement President Trump just reached with Mark Zuckerberg social media company Meta, which owns Facebook. What can you tell us about that?

COLLINS: Yes, everyone noticed that Mark Zuckerberg was there at the inauguration. He had donated $1 million to the inauguration. He had been at Trump's Mar-a-Lago club after Trump won election in November. And now I am told today that President Trump here at the White House also signed a settlement agreement with Meta, the company that he sued, of course, after in the early days, aftermath of the January 6 riot at the Capitol that had suspended his Facebook account, Trump sued the company, sued several others.

But on Meta specifically, they have signed a settlement agreement to end that lawsuit that he brought against Meta. I'm told it is to the tune about roughly $25 million, $22 million of that, Jake, which I'm told is going to go to President Trump's forthcoming presidential library fund. The rest of that is going to basically just legal fees and other plaintiffs in this case.

But it is a notable development because this is something that Trump and Mark Zuckerberg discussed back in November when Zuckerberg went down to Mar-a-Lago to have that dinner with the president. This lawsuit was a focus of his. And now it has come to an end with this settlement agreement that Trump signed earlier here at the White House today. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Tonight on The Source, Kaitlan is going to be joined live by Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren from the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts, who earlier today questioned Trump's pick to lead the Department of Health and Human Services. RFK Jr. The Source is tonight and every weeknight at 9:00 Eastern on CNN. It is Must See TV. Speaking of Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., he faced senators in his first of

two confirmation hearings today. RFK Jr. who has been making demonstrably false comments about vaccines for 20 years, try to appear more palatable today, saying, quote, I believe vaccines have a critical role in health care, unquote.

CNN's congressional correspondent Lauren Fox is on Capitol Hill for us. Lauren, RFK Jr. might be Trump's most controversial cabinet pick, either him or Tulsi Gabbard. I'm not sure which one. What are you hearing from Republican senators?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this was really an attempt during this confirmation hearing today to rewrite history, rewrite what he has said about vaccines in the past.

[17:05:00]

And also clarify for a lot of conservatives what he would do at HHS when it comes to abortion because of the fact that so many people are concerned about his past stance. He repeated over and over again when it comes to that issue, he will follow what Donald Trump wants to do, clearly trying to separate his past commentary with where he is today.

But what you're hearing from a lot of Republicans is many of them are staying mom (ph), I just caught up with Senator Susan Collins, a Republican from Maine who has often, you know, defied Trump on some of these critical votes, including on Hegseth just a couple of days ago. And, you know, she told me that she has not made up her mind yet that it would be premature to do so.

She's expecting to question him tomorrow during her hearing. But it's also really illuminating that others, including Senator Bill Cassidy, told me earlier today that he also is not commenting about RFK's future. He's going to be leading that hearing tomorrow in his own committee. And he asked a series of questions today about Medicaid and Medicare. And it was very clear throughout that questioning that RFK Jr. had a lot of questions still to answer about whether or not he understood the differences between those two programs at the agency that he would oversee.

So that is a key concern. Meanwhile, you have Republicans who are arguing that Democrats were too harsh on RFK today during his questioning. Here's what they said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RON JOHNSON (R-WI): I think Bobby did great. Again. I was -- as I stated in the hearing, I was disappointed that the Democrats were so hostile toward it. I mean, this is, you know, what I found in terms of my advocacy for, you know, vaccines, that type of thing. This is a completely nonpartisan issue. There's no reason for partisanship here.

FOX: What do you think his chances are of getting a single Democratic vote tomorrow or not tomorrow

SEN. RON WYDEN (D-OR): I don't see it right now. I think particularly his stumble that indicated he really doesn't understand the various health care programs that are relevant for seniors and folks who are vulnerable really hurt him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And a refresh on the math. If every single Democrat voted against this nomination, that means Republicans could only lose three members. We have not heard from Senator Mitch McConnell. We have not heard from Senator Lisa Murkowski, Susan Collins, Bill Cassidy. Obviously, a lot of questions still about whether or not he has the support that he needs to get the support on the floor in just a couple of days. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill, thanks so much. Here now is one of the senators who questioned RFK Jr. today Democratic Senator Raphael Warnock of Georgia senator, good to see you today. You pressed RFK Jr. on whether he viewed the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the CDC, which is in your state, as a critical agency for public health. Here's part of what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY NOMINEE: I support the CDC. My job is not to dismantle or harm the CDC. My job is to empower the scientists if I'm privileged to be confirmed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you believe him or what did you take from his answer?

SEN. RAPHAEL WARNOCK (D-GA): Well, you know, he doesn't serve in the Senate, but he's pretty good at the filibuster. The problem that he has is that he's made some very provocative and extreme statements about the CDC. He compared it to a Nazi death camp, and it's worked. Compared it to the sexual abuse scandal in the Catholic Church. When I asked him about it, he said he didn't say it. The problem is I had a transcript which shows that's what he said.

So I think that the people of Georgia and the American public, who count on the CDC to keep all of us safe, deserve to know what RFK really believes about their health care.

TAPPER: So you're not going to vote for RFK Jr. You just announced that. Some of your Democratic colleagues in the Senate have, at least in the past, expressed an openness to supporting him, talking about his focus on chronic health, talking about his focus on processed food. Do you think any of your Democratic colleagues will vote to confirm him?

WARNOCK: Well, I won't try to speak for them, but I don't see much evidence that he'll have support. And look, let me be really clear. This is not a political issue. This is not a partisan issue. If there's any nomination where politics should be sidelined, it is in the nomination of the HHS secretary.

The problem with Robert Kennedy is he has spent the last 20 years or more chasing out after conspiracy theories and the ways in which he is focused on that has actually had life and death consequences for the people of Samoa and in other places. And I'm deeply troubled about what he thinks about the work of the CDC and the 10,000 Georgians who work there and how important their work is to keeping all of us safe.

We are dealing right now with bird flu, and we need someone who's going to be focused on the science, who actually believes in science.

[17:10:00]

And we need someone who's going to be focused on the science, who actually believes in science and will do everything that they can do to support the important work of the CDC. It's something that all of us need. And when these pandemics show up, they don't ask, are you a Democrat or a Republican?

TAPPER: I know I don't need to do the math for you, but Democrats only control 47 seats in the U.S. Senate. And even if all Democrats vote against Kennedy, and I'm not sure where Fetterman is on this yet, do you think there are four Republicans who will vote against him?

WARNOCK: Well, we will see. But I'll tell you this. The eye of history is on this moment. More importantly, the people of our country are counting on the CDC to keep us safe. We've got issues confronting us right now. The tax credits that keep health care at a rate that makes it affordable, not nearly affordable enough. But those tax credits are about to expire. And I wasn't satisfied on his answer for that.

I can tell you this. The people of Georgia can't afford for their health care costs on average to go up $500 per month. And so I'll be fighting for them. And I'm going to vote no on this nominee.

TAPPER: Senator Warnock, thanks so much for your time. Appreciate it. Joining us now, Dr. Greg Poland. He's the president and co-director of the ATRIA Research Institute. It's a global network of distinguished fellows and researchers focused on strategies to prevent and mitigate chronic disease. Also joining us, Dr. Paul Offit, the director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's hospital of Philadelphia.

Dr. Poland, today, RFK Jr. said he supports measles and polio vaccines. And I want to play part of an exchange where Democratic Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon pressed him on previous comments he made about measles. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WYDEN: In a book called "The Measles Book," you wrote that parents had been, quote, misled into believing that measles is a deadly disease and that measles vaccines are necessary, safe and effective. So my question here is, Mr. Kennedy, is measles deadly, yes or no?

KENNEDY: The death rate from measles, historically in this country, in 1963, the year before the introduction of the vaccine was 1 in 10,000.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He didn't exactly answer the question there. So I'll ask it to you, Dr. Poland, is measles a deadly disease and is the measles vaccine necessary, safe and effective?

DR. GREG POLAND, PRESIDENT AND CO-DIRECTOR, ATRIA RESEARCH INSTITUTE: Absolutely. This is very clear science that has occurred over decades. Measles can be a deadly disease. It can lead to a lot of complications. In contrast, the measles vaccine, when used appropriately, is safe and prevents those deaths and complications.

TAPPER: Dr. Offit, you and I have something in common. Beyond that, we're rooting for the Eagles. You have been lied about by RFK Jr. He's lied about me, too. That both of this has to do with vaccines. You advocating for them, me covering it. What did you make of his testimony today?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Well, he is exactly who he has been for the last 20 years. He tells you who he is. He said no vaccine is safe and effective. He says the polio vaccine has killed many, many more people than it saved. He said HIV doesn't cause aids.

And so what happened here and Senator Warnock alluded to that, this when they challenged him with things that he said written. He said, Wyden said that. Right? I didn't write that. I think the most amazing thing he said, sort of fantastic thing he said was when he said that when he in May of 2021, when he asked the CDC or the rather the FDA to withdraw its emergency use authorization for the COVID vaccine, he said, well, I really just wasn't talking for everybody. I was just talking about children, because children have zero percent chance of getting COVID.

Really? 1,600 children died of COVID. Our hospital was flooded with children with COVID. Is there any virus that affects adults but not children? It was an amazing claim.

TAPPER: It is the time of the year where anyone who goes to see the doctor will be asked if they want to get a flu shot. I want to play something RFK Jr. said about the flu shot during an Internet debate back in 2020. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY: There is zero evidence that the flu shot prevents any hospitalizations or any deaths. Number three, the flu shot transmits the flu. In fact, if you get a flu shot, you're six times more likely to give somebody else the flu. And if you didn't get the flu shot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Dr. Poland, is that true?

POLAND: It's absolutely not true. We give flu vaccine and we measure the effects of giving the flu vaccine at a population level, in fact, in its efficacy to prevent infection, to prevent hospitalizations.

[17:15:00]

And no, you cannot get the flu from the inactivated injected flu vaccine. It's impossible.

TAPPER: Dr. Offit, just a final word. You must just be like sitting there like we're in the Upside Down. How is this even remotely happening?

OFFIT: Exactly. It's amazing that a man who is a science denialist, a conspiracy theorist, and basically somebody who doesn't believe in the germ theory, which he wrote about in his most recent book, is being considered as head of HHS. I would like to think there are minimum requirements for being head of HHS. One of them is believing in the germ theory, which is pretty established. Specific viruses and bacteria do cause specific diseases and preventing or treating them can be life-saving. It's amazing we're even considering this.

TAPPER: Dr. Offit, Dr. Poland, thanks to both of you. Appreciate it. President Trump signed the first law of his new presidency today, the bipartisan Laken Riley Act, aimed at enforcing immigration laws. What it includes and what Laken Riley's family said at the White House today, that's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:20:10]

TAPPER: Back in our politics lead, the confusion over that freeze on federal aid. The Trump White House rescinded the memo from Monday night, directing people to freeze federal grants and loans for thousands of nonprofits and charities.

Here now is our panel, CNN's Alayna Treene, Republican strategist Brad Todd, and former Biden official Meghan Hays. Alayna, let me start with you. How much did the response from Republicans on the Hill play into the Trump administration rescinding the memo, which is implicitly or not an acknowledgement that it was confusing?

ALAYNA TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, well, first of all, I just want to point out how this is so out of step and not common for Donald Trump. He never backs off anything. He doesn't ever want to do reversal. If anything, he tries to deny and double down. That is not what happened here.

But I think you're absolutely right. Republicans played a huge role in this. And we know, I know from my conversations with Republicans on the Hill, from even people with inside the administration, new political appointees put there by Donald Trump, there was a lot of angst about this.

We know, I know Kaitlan spoke about this, that a lot of Republicans were getting calls from their constituents, very concerned about whether they were affected, very confused on what exactly the freeze meant, if it would rob them of funding that they relied on, that played a role.

But I also think they just recognized that a lot of what was in that memo and all of the confusion that stemmed after. And then, of course, also what we saw from the federal judge with that temporary block on it was something that they needed to deal with and not something they could just continue to let stand on its own.

But again, this is very rare for Donald Trump's administration, especially when I will say with a lot of the other executive orders, many of them are controversial. Many of them received a lot of backlash, including from some Republicans on Capitol Hill. And many of them are facing legal challenges.

This one was different. And part of the reason I'm told it was different is because they recognize that one, this isn't the way that they could move forward. They always thought it would be temporary, but it ended up kind of getting a lot further than I think it was meant to.

TAPPER: Yes, the executive orders are still there.

TREENE: Right.

TAPPER: The ones calling for the end of DEI programs and stuff having to do with the infrastructure bill and stuff like that.

TREENE: And foreign funding.

TAPPER: And foreign funding and NGOs. What's your take on what happened the last?

BRAD TODD, FOUNDER, ON MESSAGE INC.: Well, I think first off, the administration has been very prepared much, especially compared to 2016. They came in with a very good plan to do a lot of things that are very popular. On this one, it felt like it was a little clumsy. I think they tried to hit the easy button. I mean, cutting spending is popular and Donald Trump is going to cut a lot of programs and a lot of grants and loans are going to be suspended from things that don't match up with his agenda. This is going to come back, but I think it will come back in a much more surgical way.

I was kind of surprised they did this before Russ Vought got in office. You know, he's going to be the new director of OMB. The vote to confirm him is tomorrow. This came out of the OMB office, the Office of Management and Budget. I think it could have waited. I think it could have waited until after Russ Vought was there, his team was in place, and it was a little bit more surgical. But cutting spending is popular and Democrats should not take away from this that defending all spending is going to be a good thing for them.

TAPPER: Cutting spending is popular until you get to the details of the programs and then it depends on what the program.

TODD: There's plenty to cut in the federal government that would be popular.

TAPPER: 100 percent. Yesterday, Meghan, I asked Stephen Miller, Trump's deputy chief of staff for policy, about this confusion. Here's part of that exchange.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STEPHEN MILLER, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF OF POLICY: I can't help it if left wing media outlets published a fake news story that caused confusion. If you read the OMB guidance memo, it is --

TAPPER: I don't know what you're talking about.

MILLER: Well, if you read the OMB guidance law --

TAPPER: Well, I don't know what left wing is --

MILLER: It is clear as day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, as clear as day, he says. But I mean, the honest truth is that Republican Senator Susan Collins of Maine said the order was too sweeping. A lot of confusion caused in her state. Congressman Don Bacon was on the show yesterday also talking about. This isn't personal against Stephen Miller or Donald Trump. People just, they got the memo. It seemed sweeping and people were confused.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yes, absolutely. And then OMB put out another memo or two other memos to try to clarify. She tried -- Caroline tried to clarify in her first press briefing. It just created more confusion.

TAPPER: She couldn't answer if it applied to Medicaid or not.

HAYS: Correct. And so asked -- so I appreciate what Stephen Miller is trying to spin here, but it just wasn't working. And you can see that today. You can see it when the judge put -- the pause on it. And then also you can see it again today that they rescinded the memo, which is again creating more confusion because I think people are now where does this leave us. But the messaging on this has been completely botched and I think that Democrats and Republicans are very aligned on that. This is process.

TAPPER: Let's turn to the hearing today with Robert F. Kennedy Jr. nominated to be secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services. Senator Bernie Sanders showed two infant onesies bearing anti vaccine slogans sold by an organization founded by RFK Jr. asked him about it. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Can you tell us now that you will now that you are pro-vaccine, that you're going to have your organization take these products off the market?

KENNEDY: Senator, I have no power over that organization. I'm not part of it. I resigned from the board.

[17:25:02]

SANDERS: Are you supportive of these. This closing, which is militantly anti-vaccine? KENNEDY: I am supportive of vaccines. Well, I want good science.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So I've talked to Republican senators in the last week who are pro-vaccine, pro-childhood vaccine, and this is the issue for them. They're very worried. I'm not saying his nomination's in trouble. I would never say that. But is this a real issue, do you think?

TODD: I think it is an issue, but I think a bigger issue is where he is. Ideologically, a lot of Republicans are very uncomfortable with the fact that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. was completely pro-abortion. He was anti-gun, he was for affirmative action, he said all fossil fuels should be shut down. Not a conservative in any stretch of the imagination. Donald Trump even said he's less -- he's more liberal than most of the Democrats who run for president. So I think that's his real problem.

Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders did this hearing all wrong today. If they want to seek his nomination, they should have praised how liberal RFK is because in the end, Republicans are going to vote against or for Robert Kennedy because they're concerned about ideology.

TAPPER: That's interesting. What do you think?

TREENE: No, I actually, I totally agree with you. And this was actually the concern back, you know, even before Donald Trump and his team, when they were in the transition period, before they offered Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. the job, this was the concern, one it was vaccines, but even more so his comments on abortion. And they knew that was going to be a very difficult hurdle with Republicans. And we've seen that play out.

Obviously, during the hearing today, he tried very hard to stick to saying he will support Donald Trump's policies on this. He will be aligned with the president. He agrees that it's a state issue. But this has been one of the things behind the scenes that they were working on for months prior to his confirmation hearing with senators to make sure that they could give them the assurances they needed.

I think ideologically, absolutely. That's where a lot of those.

TODD: But you said you saw Elizabeth Warren raging, wagging her finger and raising her voice. That is a sure way to make Republicans want to vote for.

TAPPER: Meghan.

HAYS: Yes, there's a lot of grandstanding. And let's not forget that he was running for president as a Democrat. So I don't think he -- but he's an opportunist. Right. So he is trying to be part of HHS and kowtow to Donald Trump. So I do think -- I don't think Democrats are going to vote for him. So I don't know how much work he's doing here for the good. And if there are Republicans that vote against them, it could sink his nomination for his ideology. TAPPER: Thanks to one and all. Tens of thousands of migrants deported

from the United States could soon be housed at Guantanamo Bay. What President Trump said today about these plans and how it would work logistically, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:31:34]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, President Trump signed his first piece of major legislation in his second term. Today, it's called the Laken Riley Act. The law is named after the 22-year-old nursing student killed last year in Georgia by an undocumented Venezuelan immigrant who had previously picked up -- been picked up for crimes and released. The President was surrounded by lawmakers and Riley's family, including her mother, Allyson Phillips, who spoke moments before the bill became law.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLYSON PHILLIPS, LAKEN RILEY'S MOTHER: We also want to thank President Trump for the promises he made to us. He said he would secure our borders and that he would never forget about Laken. And he hasn't. He's a man of his word.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump framed the bill as a major step toward tougher immigration enforcement. The new law expands the criminal charges that can lead to detention and deportation of undocumented immigrants picked up in this country, including being picked up for certain misdemeanors such as shoplifting. Critics argue it undermines due process. Supporters say it will prevent tragedies like future Laken Riley's murders.

At the same event, President Trump announced he is signing an executive order to prepare a facility at Guantanamo Bay that would hold 30,000 beds for the purpose of detaining criminal migrants. Here's Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem earlier today responding to CNN, moments after Trump made that announcement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: Well, President Trump did talk about that a little bit at the ceremony. Just talked about the fact there might -- might be some resources that could be established for the worst of the worst at Guantanamo Bay. And that's something that he is evaluating along with our team at the Department of Homeland Security.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us from Havana, Cuba, CNN's Patrick Oppmann. Patrick, what are you hearing about this facility Trump mentioned?

PATRICK OPPMANN, CNN HAVANA BUREAU CHIEF: You know, it's one of the most closely guarded places in the world still. You know, it's known as the Cactus Curtain because of course, you have the U.S. military there and on the outside you have the Cuban military guarding the U.S. military. So a very, very difficult place to escape, even if, as the Trump administration claims. They're going to be sending the worst of the worst there.

And certainly over the years, Jake, different administrations, the Clinton administration have used Guantanamo Bay to house migrants, typically Cuban migrants trying to go by boats or Haitian migrants trying to go by boats to the U.S. This is the first time that I can remember that they're talking about sending migrants who have come from other countries, not necessarily from the Caribbean, by plane, one assumes, to the Guantanamo Navy Base to essentially be housed there indefinitely in what is essentially sort of tent camp conditions.

That's what we've seen over the years. Of course, the George W. Bush administration picked Guantanamo to house some of the 9/11 terrorists, hijackers and whatnot, because it's something of a legal no man's land. That's why so many of these people, you know, 30 there -- that are so accused terrorists that remain there have -- have never really been tried because it is not technically a place that U.S. jurisdiction, U.S. law applies to.

So essentially we would see soon if this goes forward, plane loads of migrants that no country wants touch at the moment start to land in the Guantanamo Navy Base. Cuban government is lashing out, the Cuban government, which I should say is no stranger to its own human rights criticisms, saying this plan to house tens of thousands of migrants in Guantanamo in U -- U.S. Navy Base in -- in Cuba is an act of brutality, they say.

TAPPER: All right, Patrick Oppmann in Havana, Cuba, thanks so much.

[17:35:02]

To our World Lead now and the real time implications for all those migrants considering making the treacherous journey to the United States as they watch Trump's sweeping immigration policy actions unfold. Will the arrests have -- will the images of the arrests and the deportations force these migrants to reconsider their final destination? CNN's David Culver is in Guatemala City. David, how are people reacting to what they're seeing?

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, they're following these headlines really closely, Jake. That's been surprising to me to see migrants here in Guatemala who are coming from all over, really, and they are following each of these headlines and trying to then reassess their next steps. But it is not stopping them from migrating, however, it is forcing them to reroute.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER: So by 8:00 in the morning, the Casa del Migrante, this migrant shelter, is basically empty. You've got migrants who have left to go to try to make money here in Guatemala City. And then you've got those who are back on the road, except when in years past, basically everyone would tell us our destinations of the U.S., here you've got folks who are naming almost every country where they think there might be opportunity, but the United States.

FRANCISCO FORTIN, HONDURAN: Mexico. Mexico.

CULVER: The dream, of course, is the U.S. But they said the reality is Mexico, that's their destination.

Even folks who have been deported from the U.S., we've met here who have come back to Guatemala, and they have said yes. In the detention centers, there were experiences that were uncomfortable at times. They felt like there were communication gaps. They said the treatment ranged from guards who were incredibly kind and nice to those who treated them as less than human.

ORLANDO CHAJCHIC, GUATEMALAN DEPORTED FROM THE U.S. TO GUATEMALA: They were ruthless. They will -- they will call you names. Not all of them. Not all of them. Some of them were nice and saint.

CULVER: Yes.

CHAJCHIC: But we got a few bad apples.

CULVER: And so even amongst these migrants, you hear that there is concern for who has gotten into the U.S. This one young family from Venezuela, they say that they're certain there are gang members in the U.S. (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE).

WALESKA VELIZ, VENEZUELAN: (SPEAKING IN FOREIGN LANGUAGE)

CULVER: She's saying that she understands what President Trump is doing from one perspective, because there are criminals in the U.S. I asked Tren de Aragua, a Venezuelan gang, she said yes.

And yet for them, they're hoping that the U.S. will find a way to start vetting more specifically who's trying to come and for what reasons and what intentions. Perhaps then they'll have a gateway to actually enter legally and be able to make a life in the U.S.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER: Out of the 60 or so people, Jake, that we saw in that shelter, we found two who still had the intention of crossing into the U.S. but they both hoped they could do so legally. As of now, there doesn't seem a pathway viable for them to do that, so they say they'll just wait it out. But that shows you just how folks have really changed their tone as -- as to where they want to go and -- and how they're going to get there.

TAPPER: David Culver in Guatemala City, thanks so much.

What The Nation's Report Card says about the state of American schools and American students and whether kids are making up for those skills that so many lost during the COVID pandemic. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:17]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, the presence of another Trump critic is now noticeably missing from the Pentagon, the depiction of a presence at least. Today CNN reporters noticed that the portrait of former Secretary of Defense Mark Esper marking his time as secretary of the army no longer hangs in the Pentagon's army secretary hallway.

This just one day after President Trump's new Defense Secretary, Pete Hegseth, revoked the security detail for retired Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman General Mark Milley. Hegseth also removed General Milley's security clearance and ordered an investigation that could reduce his military rank. This all comes after a year's long contentious relationship between Trump and General Milley.

The first sign that General Milley was standing up to Trump was in June 2020 when he apologized for appearing in that photo op with Trump following the forceful dispersal of protesters amidst the Black Lives Matter movement across the street from the White House.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARK MILLEY, JOINT CHIEFS CHAIRMAN: I should not have been there. My presence in that moment and in that environment created a perception of the military involved in domestic politics.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: More obvious signs of their deteriorating relationship came in September 2023, the month Milley retired as a chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, to which Donald Trump had appointed him. Days before Milley's retirement ceremony, Trump posted on Truth Social accusing General Milley of treason for having phoned a Chinese counterpart in the last months of Trump's presidency. As first reported by Bob Woodward, Milley testified before Congress after that book came out. He said he was worried about, quote, concerning intelligence at the time, that China was worried about the U.S. attacking China. So he told his Chinese counterpart to, quote, stay calm, steady, and deescalate. We are not going to attack you, unquote.

Trump wrote, quote, this is an act so egregious that in times gone by, the punishment would have been death, unquote. To which Milley said this to "CBS News."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLEY: You know, as -- as much as these comments are directed at me, it's also directed at the institution of the military. And there's -- there's 2.1 million of us in uniform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In his 2023 departing speech as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Milley said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MILLEY: We don't take an oath to a king or a queen or to a tyrant or a dictator, and we don't take an oath to a wannabe dictator. We don't take an oath to an individual. We take an oath to the Constitution. And we take an oath to the idea that it's America and we're willing to die to protect it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Less than a month before the 2024 election, Woodward also reported that General Milley had called Trump, quote, fascist to the core, unquote. CNN's Natasha Bertrand is at the Pentagon. Natasha, did the Pentagon explain why an investigation is being launched against General Milley?

[17:45:09]

NATASHA BERTRAND, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY REPORTER: Well, Jake, that's exactly the question that we shouted at Pete Hegseth here at the Pentagon when he was emerging from an interview that he had just given to "Fox" where he did make some comments indicating that the reason why the acting inspector general is going to be looking into whether demoting Mark Milley and perhaps even removing a star. He was a four star general is warranted is because he allegedly subverted the chain of command.

That is something that the President and his critics have accused Mark Milley of because of those phone calls that he had with China. Now, Hegseth did not specifically point to those calls as the reason why he was accusing Milley of subverting that chain of command. But that is previously what the President and his allies have accused him of. But here's a bit of what Hegseth told "Fox" about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: Accountability is back. This is a demonstration that inside President Trump's Defense Department we're going to hold not just ev -- not just, you know, junior levels or mid levels, the highest levels possible, accountable for actions. And that's what the signal this is meant to send.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERTRAND: Now this is an administrative process. Obviously, Mark Milley has received a pardon from President, from former President Biden, so nothing can be done legally to him. But in addition to this administrative review, they are also pulling his security detail even though are currently still very active threats against his life by the Iranians, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Natasha Bertrand, thank you so much.

Do we finally have answer as to why all those drones were flying over New Jersey late last year? That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:51:23]

TAPPER: Our National Lead now. The Nation's Report Card may be cause for concern for parents across the country, results of an exam given every two years show American students continue to fall when it comes to reading and they made little strides in math. CNN's Tom Foreman joins now. Tom -- Tom, what are the results showing?

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They're showing the kind of test results that no parent wants to see. As you note, they're worse in reading, barely hanging on in math. Let's look at the key measures they have here. They measure fourth graders and eighth graders. If you look at reading proficiency, those who are at or above proficiency in fourth grade, look at that in 2019, 35 percent, 2025, 2024, only 31 percent. And for eighth graders, look at that 34 percent in 2019 after the pandemic, 30 percent now. So trying to crawl back but really not getting there.

And important to note in all of this, Jake, when you look at those numbers, one of the other concerns is the reason those averages are where they are, is because the top students are doing considerably better and the worst students are doing considerably worse. So the gap is getting wider.

TAPPER: And we know, obviously, we've covered this. The -- the pandemic was a real turning point with the schools closing --

FOREMAN: Yes.

TAPPER: -- remote education.

FOREMAN: Right.

TAPPER: Schools staying closed longer than they should have, frankly. What other underlying problems are there?

FOREMAN: Well, when you look attendance is a big part. Obviously the pandemic pushed people out. They weren't there to attend. The school has never really recovered from that. Attendance continues to be low. They're having trouble getting people to simply be there. You're not there, you're not going to learn. In addition to that, they noted in this that fewer kids are reading for fun. They're just not reading, so their comprehension is lower. And then there have been other studies that have looked like an increase in depression and mental problems, kids struggling with things, anxiety. So it's all part of it.

But I do want to get to that -- that second part you brought up there about the states. It is unclear from this exactly what that means. The pandemic hurt everyone. Yes, it looks like some of the blue states that stayed closed longer suffered more initially. But in the recovery, New York, Los Angeles, they have recovered much faster, even though they were in worse place. And places like Florida and Arizona, red states, they -- they shut a shorter period of time, but they're having a harder time coming back.

TAPPER: You know, one of the big problems, these things. FOREMAN: That's -- that's all -- that's the lack of reading thing.

TAPPER: That's all the kids --

FOREMAN: Everything drawing you away from reading --

TAPPER: TikTok --

FOREMAN: -- reading a magazine, actually.

TAPPER: Instagram. Yes.

FOREMAN: Yes.

TAPPER: Thanks, Zuckerberg. Tom Foreman, thanks so much.

[17:53:51]

New Jersey residents spent weeks at the end of last year reporting mysterious drones in the skies. Police were sent to investigate potential sightings. Now we might finally have answers. The truth is out there. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: And we're back with our Out of This World Lead, which turns out is not so out of this world. New answers for so many of you had so many questions about all those drone sightings in the Northeast last month -- last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: An update on the New Jersey drones. After research and study, the drones that were flying over New Jersey in large numbers were authorized to be flown by the FAA for research and various other reasons. Many of these drones were also hobbyists, recreational and private individuals that enjoy flying drones.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: First of all, thank you for clearing that up, Karoline. Second of all, CNN's Pete Muntean is here. This explanation, I mean, what are we going to make of this?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: It really seems now like a distraction from the White House taking it on the chin yesterday about the short lived federal funding freeze. And really what Karoline Leavitt said is more of what we already knew, that this drone hysteria that took off in New Jersey in November really took hold in December was mostly things that were legal and in many cases, cases of mistaken identity, things that were actually airplanes and helicopters over New Jersey.

There was this rare statement from the Biden administration by the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI which said back on December 12th that this was not of a foreign nexus, that these drone sightings did not pose a real threat and that many of them may have actually just been airplanes and helicopters. In fact, I saw some of the video, I was poring over it at the time, and a lot of these were simply 737s going into Newark.

TAPPER: But isn't her saying that a lot of these were authorized by the FAA for research? Isn't that new?

MUNTEAN: That is a little bit new.

TAPPER: Yes.

MUNTEAN: But I think what she's sort of saying is kind of misconstruing the idea here that -- that the FAA was and always has had authority over consumer drones flying in places that people would be otherwise in. So this is something where she's saying that the FAA was legally authorizing drones to be flown. The real telltale here is that the FAA pot -- posted tons, dozens of temporary drone bans over critical infrastructure in New Jersey and New York, places like nuclear plants. All of those temporary drone bans have now expired. So it seems that the concern has really faded from --

[18:00:25]

TAPPER: Sorry, sorry to give you the wrap. But I got to throw it to Wolf. Pete Muntean, thanks so much. The news continues. Jim Sciutto is in for Wolf today.