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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Recovery And Investigation Underway In Deadly Aircraft Collision Over D.C.; President Trump Talks Deadly Plane Crash, Tariffs; White House Still Claiming DEI Policies May Have Played Part In D.C. Plane Crash; NTSB Officials Give Update On Deadly D.C. Plane Crash. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired January 31, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Officials this afternoon said efforts to remove the pieces of the plane from the water should start no later than tomorrow. CNN's Pete Muntean has all of the latest details.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It is the best view yet of the worst aviation disaster in decades. The Army Black Hawk helicopter flying down the Potomac River and directly into American Airlines Flight 5342.

BRAD BOWMAN, FORMER COMMANDER, 12TH AVIATION BATTALION: That's 67 people losing their lives right there. I mean, that's hard to watch. This isn't a video game.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Brad Bowman was a company commander in the very same black Black Hawk unit and flew this flight path often.

BOWMAN: The helicopter pilot at this point should be scanning aggressively.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): The exclusive videos show no sign of evasive maneuvers, and new flight tracking data suggest the Black Hawk may have been above the area's maximum altitude for helicopters.

BOWMAN: If it's higher than 200 feet, that's a decisive error that should not have happened.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): The chopper was flying on a special helicopter path skirting the airport, regularly used by the military to train for missions like evacuating leaders in an emergency.

BOWMAN: You have the Washington Monument left and the Jefferson Moore on your right. And then, and then you're flying right here by Reagan National Airport. It's one of the busiest aviation spots in the country, if not the world.

MUNTEAN (voice-over): Less than 48 hours after the crash, the Federal Aviation Administration has now shut down the routes for the foreseeable future. A source familiar with the investigation tells me more permanent changes are being discussed.

Investigators have recovered the so called black boxes from the passenger plane and are reading them at a laboratory only a mile from the crash site. Recovery crews on the Potomac River braved rain Friday as they turned their focus to the wreckage of the helicopter.

CHIEF JOHN DONNELLY SR., DC FIRE AND EMS: This has been a tough response for a lot of our people. We've had over 300 responders operating at one time and I think we've got about 500 people that have worked through the site.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

MUNTEAN: The latest update from first responders, Jake, 41 victims have been recovered from the icy Potomac River. 28 of them have been identified so far, although most of the work cannot continue until more wreckage is removed and that project really begins in earnest tomorrow. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Pete Muntean, thank you so much. I want to bring in CNN anchor and chief White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins. And Kaitlan, President Trump just spoke at the White House minutes ago about the crash investigation. Tell us what he said.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, this comes after he has been weighing in heavily on what he believes is the result and the reason that this crash and this collision occurred. He's been doing that, of course, since that press conference yesterday where he came out to address the tragedy in his first camera comments on camera but he's continued to do so on Truth Social.

Jake, this morning he was saying that he believed that the helicopter was flying too high as a result of what happened here and why it was in the path of that plane, that American Airlines plane that was landing. And just now, as he was signing this commission inside the Oval Office, he was asked again about his comments and whether or not they are interfering with this investigation as it is very much still underway. And this is what the President said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, on the crash, do you have any concerns that your commentary about things you have described as common sense or your observations could in any way interfere with the thorough investigation of the crash?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: No, I think they'll do an investigation. It'll probably come out the way I said it. I like to put it up front.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: And Jake, of course this is a real question because the NTSB is very much still investigating. They still haven't even pulled all of the people out of the water yet. You heard the first responders earlier talking about how they feel like they have to move the fuselage out of the water in order to see if they can recover those other bodies.

It just speaks to how much this investigation is very much still happening. We're just learning the names of the people who were not just on that plane, but also on that helicopter that were released by the Pentagon earlier today.

And a question here is, as the NTSB is doing its investigation, you know, what happens if the results of that investigation don't align with what the President has been saying.

That is really the concern that people have had about him getting out ahead of this. And he keeps saying that he doesn't want it to wait to take months or even years potentially to find out. We've heard from the NTSB talking about this and whether or not they will find out at least the preliminary results of this.

That, of course, is coming from Jan Hammondi, who has been at the White House. She's been briefing the President. She was actually in the room with us yesterday, Jake, but she did not get up to speak and instead talk took questions from reporters. Later on at the NTSB briefing.

TAPPER: The President was also asked about his tariff threats and about Vladimir Putin. Tell us about that.

COLLINS: Yes, of course he is saying that he is going to impose tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China tomorrow, starting with 25 percent on Canada and Mexico and 10 percent on China. That could affect a lot of prices that people and Americans pay on everything from lumber to electronics to other goods that the United States imports from those countries.

And Kelly O'Donnell, who is the pool reporter in the room, rightfully asked Trump about how part of his election message, a huge part of that election message, was that prices were too high in the United States.

[17:05:07]

And as everyone has warned, even if they are a proponent of tariffs, they do. They are costs that are passed on to the consumers. And therefore you could see Americans paying more for these goods that they enjoy. And so that was a question of how that's going to affect those Americans. He said that he was going to bring down prices. That's a real question of what that looks like or if he backs off of these tariffs or brings them down from the numbers that they're at right now.

As far as President Putin, he was asked about this yesterday as well, because we know there were Russian citizens on that flight that crashed inside the Potomac. And he was asked yesterday if he had spoken with him yet. He said he had not today. Again, just now, he said that he does plan to speak with him in the future. He didn't say exactly when that's expected to happen.

Jake, it would be notable because it would be their first call since Trump took office. We get readouts from the White House whenever he does have a call with these world leaders. But many more things to talk about than just what happened, of course, with this plane and these citizens who were killed as a result of this crash. The president also there mentioned the Ukraine war that is still very much underway.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thank you so much. And of course, don't miss Kaitlan's show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins airs tonight at 9:00 p.m. her guests tonight include a first responder who's been working the crash scene in that frigid Potomac River. That's tonight and every weeknight at 9:00 Eastern only on CNN.

Here now is Democratic Congressman Don Beyer from Virginia. He represents Arlington County, which includes Reagan National Airport. Congressman, thank you for being here.

REP. DON BEYER (D-VA): Thank you.

TAPPER: Sorry under these conditions. What are you learning about how this collision happened?

BEYER: Yes, there's so much new information coming in. Just this afternoon, there's a lot of talk about not obeying the 200 foot ceiling that may have been up as high as 300 feet.

TAPPER: The helicopter.

BEYER: The helicopter. The indication the helicopter may have been as much as half a mile off course, but it really speaks to the larger issue of a very complicated airspace. We already know that National Reagan is, you know, 25 million passengers last year when it was designed for 14 million.

Here in the Congress, we've been fighting again and against the slots and perimeters bringing ever more planes in. We just sent a letter to my office this afternoon saying no more training flights in that space indefinitely. Can really sort out whether the training flight should be next to the airport to begin with.

TAPPER: Let's bring out -- I want to just show that image as we had those live images. Guys, if you could bring it back. Control room, I just want to show people that we've been talking about the crane arriving to bring the remnants of the plane, the fuselage, up from the bottom of the Potomac as they continue to search for, I think there are 26 or so passengers who are remaining in that water. And getting that out is important.

Let's talk about that letter that you wrote to the secretary of defense and the acting secretary of the army requesting a continued operational pause or redirection of the Black Hawk helicopter training route near Reagan Airport. Have you heard from the Pentagon and should it be a permanent pause?

BEYER: Well, I think so. We have a temporary pause from the FAA right now just along the paths one and four, which are right along the river. And that's for all helicopters. But we think we should look at it from the defense standpoint. We've always argued that you do need to have helicopters in that space because of the ability to bring the president, vice president, other folks out of town in an emergency.

What's not clear is that those training flights need to be done right next to the airport. Why not move them out someplace, southern Maryland, out into Virginia? And that's what we're asking the Defense Department to do, pause it for the meantime. But then look, you know, significantly over the weeks to come about whether it should be there at all.

TAPPER: You voted against last year's FAA reauthorization bill, which expanded flight traffic into Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport. You cited safety concerns and the overstressed airport. We had Congressman Larson on earlier in the show. He said those additional flights have not yet been added. That's what he said. Maybe that's not true. I don't know. You tell me.

BEYER: No, that is true. They have not yet been added. And I don't want to say that the additional slots that they got, the extra five, had anything to do with this accident.

TAPPER: Right. But do you think that they should -- that there should be a reconsideration? I know you voted against it anyway.

BEYER: Yes, absolutely. Otherwise. Otherwise a perfectly good bill. But yes, absolutely. Just because it is way too crowded. It's the most -- it's the busiest Runway in America.

TAPPER: Right.

BEYER: And we saw, you know, another near miss yesterday with a helicopter, a couple of near misses in the last six months of airplanes you know how many -- most of us have had an incident where you come into national and then you have to take off again before you touch down because it's so complicated.

TAPPER: Yes. All right. Congressman Don Beyer of Virginia, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it, sir.

Joining us now is Elizabeth McCormick, a former US Army Black Hawk helicopter pilot. Also joining us, Peter Goelz, former NTSB managing director and a CNN aviation analyst. Elizabeth, first to you.

[17:10:00]

Since we spoke yesterday, CNN has obtained this new video which we're now going to show our viewers again. It gives a new perspective of the final moments before the fatal collision. As a former Black Hawk helicopter pilot, what stands out to you, if anything, in this new video?

ELIZABETH MCCORMICK, FORMER U.S. ARMY BLACKHAWK HELICOPTER PILOT: Well, originally we thought that they had crossed more vertically. In this case, it looks like the Black Hawk flew straight towards them and towards the airliner that was on approach. You know, of course, that shouldn't happen. Of course they were too high. You know, I've received questions about was this intentional? And

other things, which I totally -- I do not believe that at all. It's just really, really tragic. And I think that maybe they -- as the plane was descending, the rotor system was blocking a clean view. If they had night vision goggles, the light might have blared it out. We don't know for yet if they were wearing their night vision goggles that close to the airport when there was so much light. There's just a lot of unanswered questions.

TAPPER: Peter, you've had a lot of experience working on these types of investigations. We're learning that the helicopter may have been flying 100ft above the maximum allowed altitude, which is 200ft. What questions does that raise for you?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, I think there's two broad areas. The first is the incident itself. You know, why were they -- if they were 100 feet high, was it because the altimeter wasn't properly calibrated, because they weren't paying attention? You know, there are lots of questions that will be raised about that.

And then secondarily is the broader question that you brought up with the congressman, why is this corridor still in place? You know, and I'm calling for the Air Wing to release its flight logs for the last 90 days to show what kinds of flights are taking place. Are these essential to national security or continuance of governing? I mean, I think it's a -- it was a dangerous intersection that had been there for a long time and the luck just ran out.

TAPPER: Elizabeth, an army pilot who's flown this route told CNN that these flights are routinely planned down to the smallest detail. What factors do you think could have caused this crew to go off their standard route?

MCCORMICK: Under night vision goggles with that much ambient light, it's easy to lose track. You're basically looking through two toilet paper rolls at everything that's going on around you and scanning underneath the goggles to see your instruments. Between that heightened multitasking mode of scanning, it's possible they missed something.

It's hard to speculate exactly what went wrong, if they were wearing their goggles, if they weren't, if the lighting blew them out, the goggles out and temporarily blinded them. I really -- there's a lot of different factors that could have been in play with this.

TAPPER: And Peter, we know the flight data and voice recorders, the black boxes were recovered from the American Airlines plane in the Potomac River. What will investigators be able to learn from that data?

GOELZ: Well, I think very little. I think it appears that the PSA flight was, you know, on a precision approach. They were where they were supposed to be. This was a dramatic and tragic instantaneous crash. I don't think you'll pick up anything in the voice recorder, and I think the data recorder will show, you know, that all systems were normal. I think the real issue has to be focused on the Black Hawk's data

recorder. And as I understand it, they don't have a voice recorder. So there's going to be a certain amount of challenge to try and figure out why this flight crew performed the way they did.

TAPPER: Elizabeth, just quickly, Peter referred to whether or not the altimeter, which gives an idea of how high the helicopter is, whether it was not calibrated correctly, how common is it for an altimeter to not be calibrated correctly?

MCCORMICK: Well, before every flight, we get the current barometric pressure reading with an update with our weather, and we would turn the little dial on an altimeter to make sure that it's at the correct calibration at every single flight. So short of a large pressure change in the middle of flight, that if they did not take that step, that might have been an issue that could have put them off 100 feet, maybe even more, depending on this change of barometric pressure, that's something that will come out in the investigation.

TAPPER: Yes. Elizabeth McCormick and Peter Goelz, something to keep an eye on. Absolutely. Thank you so much to both of you.

Weather is further complicating the recovery efforts at the Potomac River today, efforts that were already challenging for the divers in that cold, murky water. Coming up next, I'm going to be joined by two experienced rescue drivers to discuss what these crews are likely facing underwater.

[17:15:04]

Plus, Hamas, the terrorist group in Gaza, is set to release three more hostages tomorrow, including an American. But after the chaotic scenes during the hostage releases earlier this week, what exactly will we see play out tomorrow?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: And we're back bringing you some somber new video as the search continues in the Potomac River from that plane crash two nights ago. This is just some of the debris crews are finding. There are items such as an American Airlines -- as American Airlines sugar packets, a landing gear checklist, parts of a passenger seat, some of the jarring items the crews are finding after Wednesday's deadly crash.

Officials say the recovery operation in the Potomac river has been difficult. 67 victims. Of course, they've recovered more than 40. They need to remove parts of the fuselage in order to get out some of the remaining victims. So far, 41 bodies have been recovered.

[17:20:07]

This is a crane, and two Coast Guard gutters are now at the crash site. Let's bring in former Navy seal and rescue diver Jake Zweig. Also joining us, rescue diver Butch Hendrick. Butch, to you first. Explain what it's like for divers to be operating in extremely icy, extremely murky waters where there is still debris from a plane crash.

BUTCH HENDRICK, RESCUE DIVER: Yes. First you have to deal with the temperature and the fact that no matter what, wearing dry suits and thermal underwear, they're going to be cold based on the amount of time they're spending. Then on top of that, there's no visibility and we have a current, and eventually they're going to be, as they enter the fuselage, they're in an overhead environment, a confined space. It's a debris field.

So just moving anytime, just a few inches -- anytime they move even a few inches, they have to be very careful of what they're touching because they're going to be cutting their gloves. They may get entangled on something.

TAPPER: Can they see anything? I scuba and I remember when I got certified in, like, the quarries of Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, I couldn't see a wall.

HENDRICK: Like springs.

TAPPER: Yes. I couldn't see a thing.

HENDRICK: Yes. This would be closing your eyes and putting on a pair of blinders over the top of that. There's no visibility. Everything is done in braille. But on top of that, every time they move, based on the sediment and the mud that's in that portion of the river, it's just filling the space. There is no seeing. Everything is done by touch and feel.

They may physically feel something on the side of their thigh, reach back and suddenly realize they just touched a human. But they did missed it with their hand 30 seconds sooner. Every time they move, they got to be worried about what is in front of them. Anything that is in front of them, everything has to be removed.

So if I come across another suitcase, it's not push it out of the way, because it's now going to be possibly in my way as I get ready to exit. So everything has to slowly come out as you're moving forward. The dangers are extremely high. Again, you're in a confined space. You only have one way in and one way out.

TAPPER: Yes.

HENDRICK: It's an overhead environment.

TAPPER: I can't even imagine the sharpness of the metal of the plan. Jake, you know, someone involved in the recovery effort for this crash, how is your friend or colleague processing this? And I would imagine something like this stays with you long after the operation's over.

JAKE ZWEIG, FORMER NAVY SEAL AND RESCUE DIVER: Yes, it's nightmare level stuff. You don't ever sleep again well, and it reappears at inopportune times for the remainder of your life.

TAPPER: And Butch, how do divers train for a situation like this? And how do they keep themselves safe as they're going around like, trying to figure out what's in front of them? How do they, like, not slice their hand?

HENDRICK: Well, first of all, we're not able to train for something of this level. There's no budget for almost any department other than the military to be able to train to this type of a program. That's one.

Two, to being able to deal with the metal and the sharp edges. Again, we're not teaching people how to do that anywhere in the world. They're learning how to work in water that they cannot see in. Learning how to work in water that is cold, possibly ice, an overhead environment. And they're learning how to work in a bus or a fuselage of a plane that's been put there and prepared for them.

So preparing for this is not going to happen. And as said, anyone who tells you they've ever done this for real and were never scared is lying.

TAPPER: Yes.

HENDRICK: And the amount of therapy that's going to be required for some of these divers is going to be enormous.

TAPPER: And Jake, not only have you --

HENDRICK: You never sleep.

TAPPER: Jake, not only have you flown in military helicopters before, but you also know people who have been in helicopter crashes. Are there any procedures for how to handle a crash, particularly when you're relatively close to the ground, 300 feet or so?

ZWEIG: So there's an individual down at SEAL Team 8 in the 90s who had survived five helicopter crashes. He was a sole survivor on three of those. And he was in training with me. And I talked to him and he said the pilot was doing Whoopi do, so just, you know, going up and coming down.

[17:25:00]

And he said, he woke up in the water. And I said, you know, didn't -- what happened? He said, I don't know. I woke up in the water. There was nothing around me. I was floating. I started treading water and I survived.

Now I'm going to tell you this down to Seal Team 8. Anytime went anywhere in helicopters, no one rode with him. So when I first got there and I was a new guy, I tried to get on a helicopter with him and they were like, no, he rides on his own helicopter.

So even in the SEAL teams, there's a bit of suspicion and I guess I would say, you know, staying away from the bad things. And he had a bad helicopter ride journey with him.

TAPPER: Butch and Jake, thanks so much for your insights. Really appreciate it. HENDRICK: If I could add --

TAPPER: I'm sorry, I could do the whole hour with you guys, honestly. And I want to have you back. We'll book you back. But we're expecting this briefing from the NTSB at any moment.

HENDRICK: Thank you.

TAPPER: We're going to bring that to people live. The U.S. is set to put tariffs on Canada and Mexico in just hours as well. We're going to tell you about the impact this could have on your family and what else we heard from President Trump at the White House this afternoon. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:30]

TAPPER: And you're looking at live pictures from Ronald Reagan National Airport, where any moment we expect an update from investigators, including the National Transportation Safety Board, about the accident that took place two nights ago.

Crews have spent the day in the murky, frigid Potomac River. A large crane has just arrived this afternoon to help with those recovery efforts. And we're going to bring in the news conference live when it begins.

But for now, before that, until that begins, let's turn to our politics lead, because we're now just hours away from the United States. Trump administration enforcing new tariffs on Mexico, Canada and China. This cap's a consequential and at times, perhaps, you know, a little confusing second week of the Trump administration.

The president is disrupting how government normally functions and how power is normally wielded from the Oval Office. That was part of his pitch, to be frank. Let's jump right in with our panel. Gentlemen, thanks so much for being here.

So we've seen Trump respond to a disaster in a remarkably different way from former presidents. He almost immediately blamed Democrats and diversity, inclusion and equality programs for the tragic plane collision and crash. Take a listen. This is from, I believe, yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm trying to figure out how you can come to the conclusion right now that diversity had something to do with this crash?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Because I have common sense. OK. And unfortunately, a lot of people don't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, to be clear, are you saying race or gender played a role in this tragedy? TRUMP: It may have. I don't know. Incompetence might have played a

role. We'll let you know that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that was from yesterday, and then the one in the Oval Office was from today. It's hardly Ronald Reagan's saying the astronauts slipped the surly bonds of earth touch the face of God after the Challenger disaster. How do you see this? Is this a risk for President Trump?

RICK TYLER, FORMER NATIONAL SPOKESMAN, TED CRUZ 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I think it's very disturbing. I mean, the president started out with two natural disasters earlier in the week. He took that opportunity not to bring the nation together. He said explicitly that he wanted to be a uniter. And then immediately, within seconds of doing having all the right comments, showing compassion and empathy for the victims of the strategy which we should really be talking about, and secondarily why this should never happen again. He immediately turned it into an agenda item.

And, you know, why should we have an NTB investigation? After all, Trump declared what the cause was when he speaks the truth, and we should just believe him. I mean, it's all nonsense. These regulations that were apparently to blame. Apparently there was a regulation because we know now that the helicopter was 200ft out of the regulation. Right. So you have a regulation.

He's saying the regulations cause it, but there's no regulations. And then he's saying, but they're all diversions, Jake. They have nothing to do with reality. And people need to focus on what happened and so we can't prevent it again. And then we need, as a nation to mourn and to have some humanity about people who died.

TAPPER: Is there any political risk for President Trump here? I mean, he started office with his approval ratings just under 50 percent, but pretty high for him. He won, sure. He won the popular vote.

CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Absolutely.

TAPPER: People want him to do things on the economy, they want him to do things on the border, et cetera, et cetera. But is there a risk or is Trump reacting this way, just kind of baked in?

ROCHA: No, there's definitely a risk. And we have elections in less than two years with the midterms and just we haven't talked about this, but last week there was a special election, the only election that's happened after the election in a state Senate race, Iowa, where Donald Trump just a month earlier won the district by 21 points.

Well, a Democrat wins that seat a month after he's locked in, which doesn't tell me everything, but it tells you that something is happening out there where there's already starting to be a reaction. And I think that he's acting like the Rick's point that he's not going to ever run again and he's going to break all the rules. And I get it. There's a lot of frustration out there. A lot of people want cheaper products, A lot of people want to feel heard.

But I don't think this, especially in a moment of tragedy, is how you do that.

TAPPER: Moments ago, Trump spoke more broadly about DEI in response to a reporter's question. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Government websites, excuse me, will be shut down this evening to scrub them of DEI content. Can you confirm whether that's accurate and if there are any concerns?

TRUMP: I don't know. It doesn't sound like a bad idea to me. DEI is -- would have ruined our country, and now it's dead. I think DEI is dead. So if they want to scrub the website, that's OK with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I mean, I can certainly understand people opposing DEI programs. It's a political issue and has been ever since affirmative action or diversity efforts were begun. But the idea that it's ruining our country, that seems a little strong.

TYLER: Well, look, I think that you want to build into any hiring process that some inherent built in biases are don't affect certain type people.

TAPPER: Sure.

[17:35:03]

TYLER: But we should not have quotas. If that's the objective of the Trump administration, then I agree with it. We should not, we shouldn't have quota, it should be merit based. But we should exclude. We should make sure that those processes don't inadvertently or overtly exclude certain people. And there's all kinds of processes to do that. I don't know what those processes are, but to assert that this accident was caused by that policy is absurd.

TAPPER: What do you see about going on in the Senate right now with the confirmation hearings? Tulsi Gabbard, for example, who is the nominee to be Director of National Intelligence? She used to be a Democrat.

ROCHA: Sure.

TAPPER: She was very critical of the Deep State back when she was a Democrat. I think we have a clip of Republican Senator Lankford asking her about Edward Snowden who leaked all those documents. Let's play that clip.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JAMES LANDFORD (R-OH): Was Edward Snowden a traitor? TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE NOMINEE: Senator, my

heart is with my commitment to our Constitution and our nation's security.

LANDFORD: Was he a traitor at the time when he took America's secrets, released them in public, and then ran to China and became a Russian citizen?

GABBARD: Senator, I'm focused on the future and how we can prevent something like this from happening again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So that's a yes or no question.

ROCHA: That's a Republican too. And she needs every Republican in this committee where there's just one more Republican on this committee, particularly that they have to get out of, to say that they're approving her to move to the next level.

As I just said, there's midterms in two years, there's 33 senators, many of which we determine will really determine who wins and who don't. Thom Tillis is up in two years. The main senator who voted against Pete Hegseth is up in two years. I think this is where you're going to see politics.

Let's not throw in Mitch McConnell, who I think is all out of give a damn when it comes to Senate because him and Trump's already bumped heads nonstop. That's why I think she's in lots of trouble here.

TAPPER: What do you think about a Republican nominee to be Director of National Intelligence not able to give a yes or no answer about Edward Snowden being a traitor?

TYLER: Well, no, I mean, it's very, it's disturbing. But she doesn't want to say he's a traitor because that's her belief that he wasn't a traitor. But it's pretty clear to me that he was.

TAPPER: Thanks to both of you. Authorities are giving an update on the plane and helicopter crash. Let's listen in.

TODD INMAN, NTSB MEMBER: The board member on scene and we'll be briefing tonight where we're at in the investigation in regard to the CRJ accident with the Sikorsky helicopter. Let me just start with it. As usual, our hearts go out to all the families of the victims.

In fact, I just spent the last several hours with them before we came here and I apologize that we had to move this back but they are one of our primary concerns along with making sure we get factual information out. They are having a very -- it's a hard time for them. Obviously. We want to do everything we can to make sure they get the most accurate information and factual and has always been at the core of the NTSB mission.

Our job is to just come out with the probable cause but then more importantly make recommendations so that this type of tragedy never occurs again.

So today I know yesterday you saw the chairman, myself and all the board members here. I just want to let you know they are still actively involved with this. We're just trying to make sure we're dividing and conquering. The chairman and I have had multiple conversations today. She's helped out a lot in making sure we're getting the investigative needs we have. She's at the command post right now working with some of our people.

I'd like to start by just thanking the first responders. When this first happened, a unified command was set up and we had a lot of important people that came and worked with us.

In Virginia, the Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department, Arlington County Fire and Rescue, Arlington County Emergency Management, Arlington Police, Alexandria City Fire, Alexandria Police, Virginia State Police, the NCR Incident Management Team, the Virginia Department of Emergency Management, the Virginia Department of Transportation, the Virginia Senator Warner's office, IMWA's Fire and Rescue Team, IMWA Police. A special shout out to every one of them. IMWA has been amazing in helping and working with us and we're truly appreciative. Along with D.C. Fire and Rescue. Just extraordinary. Taking the lead.

Prince William Fire and Rescue in Maryland, the Montgomery Fire and Rescue, Prince George's Fire and Rescue, Charles County Fire and Rescue, Baltimore Fire, Baltimore Police, Anne Arundel Fire Department, Maryland State Police, Maryland Natural Resource Police, MPD, DCFD.

From the federal side, the U.S. Coast Guard, U.S. Army, U.S. Air Force, FBI, Secret Service, Customs and Border Patrol, Park Police, DoD, Naval District, Washington, American Medical Response, and yes, the U.S. Department of Labor.

[17:40:08]

All of those have been amazing partners and are one of the reasons why that this investigation continues to progress the way we want it to.

As I said, we did family briefings last night and today there are over 100 family members that are now in the area receiving briefings and as part of a legislative requirement, receiving family assistance. They have been briefed by the medical examiner, the fire chief, NTSB Chairman and myself, along with the Family Assistant unit from PSA Airlines.

In regard to NTSB staff, all staff are now on scene that have been requested and I want to point out one specific staff member because we're doing a joint NTSB and DoD investigation.

The NTSB actually has a Black Hawk certified pilot on staff, on our personal staff based out of Alaska. Once we realize the dynamics and the intricacies of the Black Hawk, we have brought that member in. They are on scene now providing direct technical assistance to the NTSB. That does not mean that the DoD is not working and helping with us, but in order to maintain our independence, we have our own Black Hawk certified pilot in the working group for helicopters.

Regarding salvage, at this point, the Navy Supervisor of Salvage is conducting salvage operations at the current time. Barges are en route from Virginia Beach and we anticipate them to be on scene early tomorrow morning. After their arrival, they will be secured, located and then significant salvage operations will continue. They are ongoing right now, but this will be the main lifting.

It's being done in conjunction with the D.C. Medical Examiner's Office in order to make sure simultaneously that any additional victims are recovered and immediately turned over to them for identification and return to their families.

SUPSALV, which is the Supervisor of Salvage, is also conducting a debris mapping right now. This will help in our post-accident analysis of how the machine actually reacted to the incident. It'll also help us with understanding some of the airworthiness and crash worthiness and human factors. We have right now two distinct debris fields. One that houses the Sikorsky, which is in comparison to the CRJ, a little bit smaller. The CRJ is in another distinct area and we consider a little bit larger.

The good news is based upon the initial mapping, while there are some small aspects of that debris field, there are large chunks that will be easily recoverable and it will aid in the investigation when we bring it into the secured facility that will be located here on MWA, that will help us in the close proximity to be able to review and evaluate.

Yesterday we outlined for you a number of groups that have been stood up. A few of them in particular, I want to call out, although every one of them have been working very hard. For your edification, the ATC group, Air Traffic Control has been conducting interviews today. They're ongoing tonight. They will be ongoing for probably the next few days. We've had full cooperation in getting the witnesses that we need to gain those interviews.

We will then take that information and match it with other data that we're receiving and if necessary, conduct follow interviews at a later time. Our operations group now has on site an exemplar airplane similar to the CRJ 700. It's on a hard stand here at MWAH. They will use that to evaluate cockpit configuration, seating, things like that. So whenever the salvage comes up, we're able to use an exemplary aircraft to match it against examples such as where maybe switches are navigational aids, electronics. It is almost the exact same configuration as the incident aircraft.

I want to clarify one thing. There's been a lot of questions and discussion regarding manifest. Let me make this very clear. The NTSB will not and has not released a manifest. We have not in our history, not in our past. We will not be in this accident.

In fact, there's specific congressional language that whenever it is in our possession, it is not available through the Freedom of Information Act.

[17:45:07]

It will not be included in our report. We will not be putting any names of any of the victims. Any release of that information will come from other individuals or groups.

Regarding the recorders, as many of you saw last night, we recovered from the CRJ two separate recorders. One was a FDFR, that is a flight data recorder, FD, that was actually in what we consider good condition.

As part of that process, it was soaked in alcohol overnight. It was then open today, and we have a high level of confidence that we will be able to get a full download in the very near future. Now, once we do have that download, we will not be releasing immediately the information regarding it.

We will have to go through correct the data sets, make sure they're synchronized. This has approximately up to possibly 2,000 data points. Is that right? So all of that has to be synchronized and looked at. It's a very laborious practice, takes a lot of time.

Regarding the CRJ's cockpit voice recorder, once it was recovered and opened, we found that it had water intrusion. That is not uncommon. It is not an unusual event for us to receive a recorder with water intrusion. We deal with that all the time. Our recorder division is one of the best in the country, in the world, actually. We have recorder sent everywhere. So there's a step.

The CVR was soaked overnight in ionized water, at which point the team put the CVR into a vacuum oven in order to extract moisture. They are still checking electrical connections to determine if they are ready to try a download. It is one step of many steps that we will take in order to get that data, but we have a very high level of confidence that we will have it. We just have to work through a number of steps.

Lastly, on recorders, the Sikorsky, where the CRJ has two separate recorders, the Sikorsky has a combined cockpit voice recorder and digital flight data recorder. It's in one box. I can report to you now. We have recovered the Sikorsky black box. It is safely at the NTSB headquarters. It will begin an evaluation just as the other two recorders did last night, to determine when and how to take action.

I can tell you from a visual inspection, we saw no exterior damage that would indicate that it was compromised at this time. So we have a high level of confidence that we will be able to have a full extraction from that as well.

Those are some of the significant updates we have right now. Obviously, we'll be doing some more in the essence of time and making sure our team gets back, I think we're going to be able to take maybe four or five questions.

I'll call on you and I'll repeat it. So we'll try to play that game a little bit. Please, right here. Your name and outlet, please.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) incident on the Hudson said that -- he has said we absolutely should be reviewing airspace (INAUDIBLE) not just here but in other places where there a complex mix of traffic. Is he right? Is there time for a permanent shift in D.C. and across the country to keep airspace safe, separated between military (INAUDIBLE).

INMAN: So un so the question for those watching is it this time now for us to possibly deconflict or change some of the airspace where military aircraft operate with commercial aircraft? I can't give you a definitive answer on that.

What I can say is in this incident, it should not have happened. We have in aviation what's called a Swiss cheese approach, wherein if something fails, a backup should catch it. Multiple layers of redundancy. It's been a very long time since we've had a major aviation incident in the United States. And that's the reason why it's one of the safest forms of transportation in the country.

But the only way they do that is by investigating what happens now and then making recommendations in the future.

[17:50:03]

Again, the NTSB has made done 100,000 aviation investigations. We've issued 15,000 recommendations. Over 84 percent have been accepted. Once this investigative report comes out, we will be advocating probably for years for changes that need to be made, but will not speculate on what needs to be done until we have the facts. Hey, I'm calling people. Sir.

DAVE SHEPARDSON, REUTERS CORRESPONDENT: Dave Shepardson from Reuters. Can you talk about how long you think it will take to recover the debris, how long you plan to be on site and have you got any early data yet off the ATC tapes?

INMAN: I think that was three or four together. How long the debris will take, how long we'll be on site and have we gotten any information off of the air traffic control tapes. The debris, we are hopeful once the mapping is done, that it will be done in what I will call quick order. I can make no guarantees of that because first and foremost we need to make every effort and to make sure we're recovering every one of the people that perished in this accident.

We'll have some cranes that'll be coming up, and once that happens, you'll see a lot more activity and we'll be moving that in. But I don't want to give you a definitive time. I would say it will start in earnest probably on Sunday, and it will go through next week. And some of that's contingent upon weather and other things.

Regarding the ATC tapes, we've received a lot of different information on ATC and so I'm going to be let people -- I'm just going to preempt it off the shelf. Software programs are not always as accurate as the data we specifically get from ABSD, from the black boxes. All of that are factors that come into our investigation. So we will not speculate about ATC tapes that you may have heard and seen online or snippets.

We are getting the full cooperation that we need to be able to make an accurate assessment and to make sure what we are saying is factual and that it will help and aid in the entire investigation. You.

STEVE COOPER, REPORTER, CHANNEL 7 BOSTON: Todd, Steve Cooper from Channel 7 in Boston. Is there anything glaring from the videos that we've all seen that would tell you that the pilot and the Black Hawk Telemont had made a mistake?

INMAN: The question is, based on the videos, have we drawn any conclusions? We have not. We know that there was a significant incident in which the two aircraft collided. Pretty significant fireball. If you will recall even after the first day, we only had maybe one or two grainy images that were coming out. We're seeing more and more at this time. So we're still collecting data, but we are not going to opine until we see a lot of other things in there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A couple more.

INMAN: Yes, sir.

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Pete Muntean with CNN. How critical is it to interview the controller and the tower pad, and how concerning for you the reports that the controller is working through decision at the same time?

INMAN: So the question was how critical are the air traffic control interviews and basically staffing? So air traffic control interviews are critical. That's the reason why there's a process in place that began immediately after the accident. It was preservation of that evidence, was immediately taking down notes, getting logs, all that information.

We will go back and look at any air traffic controller that was involved in this. We'll go back and look at their past, probably 72 hours, even two or three weeks. We'll look at their training, their hiring, everything, what they probably ate that day. But it is not one point that tells us everything. It's layered into a lot of other information that's very critical.

Regarding staffing, the FAA has had a very robust plan in looking at staffing. Obviously, we'll be looking at not only staffing that day, but progressively staffing. How many people, what job functions they were doing, were they being combined, were they not? What was the weather outside? What was the number of landings?

I recall back during COVID one runway was being used. Only one. That was the only one. 33 as traffic came back, started being opened up. So we would look at changes in traffic patterns, construction at the airport, all of that. It all paints a very big picture. Who are you? Sorry?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry, DoD (INAUDIBLE).

INMAN: The question is, have we interviewed air traffic controllers? Yes, I think I started with. Sorry. I'm sorry, clarification. Was it an air traffic controller that was working at the time of the accident? Yes. Yes. Now, I'm not going to speculate. Sorry. No. Sorry, I'm not going to

speculate. The next question is, was there one, two, three? I don't have the answer for that right now. I know that the controller that was working at the time has been interviewed and his interviews are ongoing throughout the day.

[17:55:09]

Yes, ma'am. Last one. The question is, has anyone from the White House reached out to me or other board members? I won't speak for other board members. I know that the chair did a briefing yesterday. It was publicly discussed and gave some information. I have not received any contact. I'm going to go back to something we talked about earlier.

The NTSB is an independent, bipartisan board, 58 years as the gold standard. Our job is to find the facts, but more importantly, our job is to make sure this tragedy doesn't happen again. Regardless of what anyone may be saying, our investigators never want to see this happen again. And I never want to have to go back and brief another set of family like that. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much.

TAPPER: You've been listening to the update from the National Transportation Safety Board. I want to bring back Peter Goelz, who formerly was the managing director for the NTSB. Peter, thanks for sticking around. What is the headline there, from what you just heard?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, the most important piece of information was that the Black Hawk had a newer combined data and voice recorder and that's been recovered, that it's in good shape and they will start accessing the information over the weekend. That is the most critical part of this investigation.

TAPPER: We need, you know, what are you expecting that they can get from that new recorder?

GOELZ: Well, the most important thing is what was the crew looking at? What were they doing? You know, you'll be able to pick up an explanation of their routing and what was, you know, what were they focused on? Why did they miss this airplane? And I think I can't tell you how important it is that they've got that voice recorder because the voice recorder from the plane, from the PSA plane will unfortunately not be very helpful.

TAPPER: It sounds like. And obviously these investigations take some time, but it sounds like what we have learned just in the last couple days are that the Black Hawk was at least 100 feet over the maximum level. So instead of at 200, what's the max? It was at least at 300 feet --

GOELZ: Yes.

TAPPER: -- that it was veering off course away from the route that it was allowed to be on, that it had three people in the Black Hawk instead of the preferred four. That's according to the Black Hawk helicopter pilot we had on earlier in the show. She says that having four people gives you a better line of sight about everything around the helicopter. And then also she had speculated that something said by one of the air traffic controllers about the commercial aircraft coming maybe wasn't as conveyed as specifically as it could have been in terms of where that commercial flight was because there was one taking off and one landing at the same time.

Am I warm here? Are these some of the most important data points?

GOELZ: Absolutely. You know, the question is -- and the other point that your guest made was that if they were wearing the night vision goggles, their peripheral vision could have been severely impeded. But I think, Jake, you've touched on all the critical points and this investigation, I think in terms of the incident will be quick. They will be able to get to the bottom of this fairly quickly. The question is, how do you stop it from happening again? Is this corridor essential to national interest?

TAPER: Yes. We had the Democratic Congressman, Don Beyer on earlier talking about how he thinks that it's time to reconsider the entire route of having military helicopters or helicopters in general, especially at National Airport in this corridor because it is the busiest airport in the country.

We also heard in that briefing just now about water damage to the voice recorder. They've tried to dry it out. Have you had any experience with anything like that before? Is information still salvageable?

GOELZ: Absolutely. I mean, I've seen recorders that have, you know, sat in fires that are with 3,000 degree heat, recorders that have been at 10,000 feet of depth in the ocean that the water has penetrated. The NTSB technicians are skilled. They've dealt with these before. This is not going to be a challenge.

[18:00:00]

TAPPER: Peter Goelz, thank you so much. We always appreciate your expertise and your insight, even when it comes to such a horrific tragedy. We're going to sign off now.