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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Senate Democrats Privately Signal Willingness to Dodge Shutdown; Today, Deadline for Federal Agencies to Submit Layoff Plans; Trump Instructed Aide to Discuss Concepts of Land With Russia. Right Wing Influencers' Impact On The MAGA Movement; Powerful Storm Causes Mudslides In California; See The Moon Turn Red During Total Lunar Eclipse. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 13, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, more than 100,000 federal workers have already been fired in Trump's massive cuts to the federal government, according to CNN's tally.

[18:00:02]

And tonight, federal agencies face a deadline to submit plans for even more mass layoffs. The secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs, Doug Collins, is here live.

Plus, Democrats facing what many of them see as a no win situation. Either let the federal government shut down or agree to a Republican deal to keep the lights on. Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez from New York is right here in the studio getting miked up. We're going to talk to her in moments.

Also, they're facing charges back in Romania of human trafficking and sexually exploiting women with physical violence and coercion. So, why are some members of the MAGA movement embracing the Tate brothers?

We're going to start with breaking news in our Politics Lead. The top Senate Democrat, Chuck Schumer, now signaling he is going to help advance a Republican bill to keep the government open.

Let's get straight to CNN's Lauren Fox on Capitol Hill. Lauren?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. We are learning new information tonight that during this Republican -- excuse me, Democratic Senate lunch earlier today, Chuck Schumer, the minority leader, made clear to his colleagues that he is going to vote for a procedural step that would help advance the Republican passed spending bill.

This is something that is obviously a huge signal of ultimately where Democrats may end up. Despite the fact that there are a number of members in his party who have said that they will not support this bill, that they will not even support a procedural vote to get onto this bill. Schumer making it clear to his colleagues in this lunch that he's willing to do so.

And what this really does is it tells a story of a Democratic Party that is really grappling with this first big moment of leverage that they have with the Trump administration. One of the key concerns that so many Democrats have is that, on the one hand, you don't want to keep enabling Donald Trump and Elon Musk, but on the other hand, shutting down the government might give the Trump administration even more leeway to make decisions that many Democrats say is damaging.

Here's Senator Tim Kaine, who says he is a no on this bill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM KAINE (D-VA): The House has written a bill that hurts the country. There's no reason that the Senate just has to accept it because the House left town Tuesday night. We are supposed to be a deliberative body.

We've never done a full year C.R. It not only hurts defense, it hurts all kinds of other priorities. So, why would we just casually accept it? What, because the House left town Tuesday night?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And right now, we expect that that procedural vote will happen tomorrow, sometime in the mid morning. Again, Democrats would need to provide at least eight votes in order for Republicans to be able to advance this piece of legislation. If they don't have that number of votes, obviously, that still puts that shutdown on the table. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Lauren Fox, thanks so much.

And Democratic Congresswoman Alexandria-Ocasio Cortez of New York joins me now in the studio. Congresswoman, thanks so much for being here.

So, on social media, you've been urging people to call their senators, tell them to vote no on cloture, which allows the bill to go forward for a vote of just a simple majority, and to vote no on the vote for a simple majority on the Republican bill. What do you say to the counterargument of like a government shutdown hurts the country, hurts the people you represent from Queens and the Bronx.

REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Absolutely, and that is why House Democrats have laid out a plan, as well as some several Senate Democrats laid out a plan to keep government open for another 30 days as Republicans negotiate a deal with Democrats in order to have an extended government funding bill.

TAPPER: But the House would have to come back into session, right? I mean --

OCASIO-CORTEZ: But House Democrats are in town. I mean, we're afraid of working? Is that the problem here? That the idea that, God forbid, members of Congress have to fly back and do their jobs? I mean, genuinely, come on. TAPPER: So, Chuck Schumer, I guess, the Senate Democratic leader, your Senator, said at this meeting that he is going to vote for cloture. He is going to vote to allow there to be a simple majority vote. Do you think that's wrong?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I believe that's a tremendous mistake, yes.

TAPPER: Why?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think, well, first and foremost, the American people, if anyone has held a town hall or has seen what has been happening in town halls, American people, whether they are Republicans, independents, Democrats, are up in arms about Elon Musk and the actual gutting of federal agencies across the board. This continuing resolution codifies much of this chaos that Elon Musk is wreaking havoc on the federal government. It codifies many of those changes. It sacrifices and completely eliminates congressional authority in order to review these impulsive Trump tariffs that he's switching on and off.

And on top of that, for folks who are concerned about effectiveness in government, this Republican extreme spending bill removes all of the guardrails and all of the accountability measures to ensure that money is being spent in the way that Congress has directed for it to be spent.

[18:05:12]

This turns the federal government into a slush fund for Donald Trump and Elon Musk. It sacrifices congressional authority and it is deeply partisan.

And so to me, it is almost unthinkable why Senate Democrats would vote to hand the few pieces of leverage that we have away for free when we've been sent here to protect Social Security, protect Medicaid, and protect Medicare.

TAPPER: You have expressed opposition to government shutdowns in the past. Here's your very first speech on the House floor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OCASIO-CORTEZ: It is not normal to shut down the government when we don't get what we want. It is not normal for public servants to run away and hide from the public that they serve. And it is certainly not normal to starve the people we serve for a proposal that is wildly unpopular among the American people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now, I get that you hate this continuing resolution, you don't think it's a good bill, but the alternative is likely a government shutdown.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, the alternative is to agree on a 30-day stopgap to keep government open, as negotiated. The proposal is in front of the House. The proposal is on the Senate. Republicans had time to seek Democratic votes and we can extend that time for them to seek that vote. Once again, we can come back. We can fly back. We can vote on this. We can get a stopgap measure, extend the amount of time to negotiate while we figure out a solution here for the American people.

And I also agree, again, I maintain that position that government shutdowns, we can keep the government open with a 30-day clean C.R. And on top of that, I also maintain the position that government officials and public servants should not be hiding from the public the way that Republicans are hiding and being instructed to not host town halls right now because of the outrage among the American public around their attempts to cut Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare.

TAPPER: My understanding is that your other senator, another Democrat, Kirsten Gillibrand, also thinks that the Democrats should vote to go forward with the spending bill, unlike Senator Tim Kaine that we just heard from. And my guess is, I don't speak for either Schumer or Gillibrand, but my guess would be if they were here, they'd say, you're being naive. It's really just a choice between voting for a government shutdown or voting not for a government shutdown. People aren't going to come back. It just doesn't happen that way. Again, that's not me. I imagine that that's what they would say to you.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I mean, I understand that Senate Democrats think that it is beyond while this convention for us to come back, but House Democrats have done that before. The House has reconvened in emergency sessions before. I've certainly voted on the floor of Congress when -- and we even called us back from August recess before this.

I mean, this idea that it is beyond the scope of imagination for us to come back from vacation is just not an acceptable answer for the American public.

TAPPER: I want to play something that President Trump said earlier today. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: If a shutdown -- it's only going to be -- if there's a shutdown, it's only because of the Democrats. And they would really be taking away a lot from our country and from the people of our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Your colleagues, House Republicans, are already using the term Schumer shutdown, which has that nice alliterative style. Are you not worried at all about Democrats taking the heat for the shutdown?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: We know and the American people are not going to have the wool pulled over their eyes. Everybody knows that Donald Trump is president, that Republicans have the Senate, and Republicans have the House. They have the keys to the entire United States government. And if Republicans wanted to avert a shutdown, they can. They can. If they need Democratic votes, then they can negotiate with Democrats to get those votes. It is simple. They have two options to pass it with their votes or to pass it with Democratic votes.

And we also see the data bearing this out. When you look at public polling from very reputable firms, we see that the American people understand that and they know that, that the party in charge of government is the party that's in charge of keeping government open.

TAPPER: What do you think of the job Democratic leaders are doing, not just Senate Democratic leaders, but also Hakeem Jeffries, the Democratic leader in the House, your fellow New Yorker, in terms of standing up to Trump?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Well, when we look at this vote around this government funding bill that we saw this week, Leader Hakeem Jeffries was able to keep the entire House Democratic Caucus united and together.

TAPPER: Except for Jared Goldman.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Right.

TAPPER: Except for one.

OCASIO-CORTEZ: Every single House Democrat, including every single House Democrat who won a Trump district, except for one out of over 200, voted against this deeply partisan, extreme Republican spending bill.

[18:10:09]

Not just because they're Democrats, but because they know it's bad for the country. This bill is bad for the country.

And so I think that in terms of Democratic leadership in the House, we've seen that result in the House. I think it's time that we see similar results in the Senate.

TAPPER: Would you -- what do you think of the job that Chuck Schumer is doing? Would you ever challenge him, do you think?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think that what we need right now is a united Senate Democratic Caucus that can stand up for this country and not vote for cloture and not vote for this bill. And I think that the strength that we have is in this moment. Reconciliation and all of these -- Republicans do not need Democratic votes for that. They need it for this.

And so the strength of our leadership in this moment is going to demonstrate the strength of our caucus. And I cannot urge enough how bad of an idea it is to empower and enable Donald Trump and Elon Musk in this moment. It is dangerous and it is reckless.

TAPPER: Well, you just talked about the strength of your leadership. Chuck Schumer just said that he's going to vote for cloture. Not only the Democrats can do it, but he's going to participate in it. Does that mean that you think he's a weak Senate leader?

OCASIO-CORTEZ: I think that that would be a mistake. But we have time between now and tomorrow, and I hope that individuals that are considering that reconsider it. I genuinely do. I don't think it's what New Yorkers want. I don't think it's what the country wants.

This is genuinely not about Democrats or Republicans. This is about deep cuts to Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid. This is about the evisceration of the federal government. This is about codifying the looting that is happening at the behest of Elon Musk in order to pay for his tax breaks for billionaires. And we have a responsibility to stand up for it. That is why people elected us and that is our responsibility to them right now.

TAPPER: All right. Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez from New York, thanks so much for being here, I really appreciate it.

Also on our Politics Lead, today is the deadline for federal agencies to submit plans to the White House on how they will enact large scale reductions in force, as thousands, if not millions, of anxious federal workers wait to learn if they'll be out of a job sometime soon.

CNN's been tracking President Trump's overhaul of the federal workforce. So far, we've found more than 100,000 people have lost their jobs.

And CNN's Jeff Zeleny is live for us at the White House. Jeff, what are you learning?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Jake, we are learning that across Washington and really beyond, the federal agencies have until today to respond to an executive order from the president to essentially reshape their workforces. This is something that has been in the works for all of the mass layoffs at the beginning of the administration. This is something that agencies have been working on for the last month or so to reshape and remake their agencies.

Now, this is something that employees have not yet necessarily heard about yet. That is why fear and confusion is rippling across the federal workforce what exactly these plans are. But we're talking tens of thousands of workers. So, this is the next step for an executive order signed on February 11th.

But, Jake, this is coming as a U.S. district judge in California actually dealt the administration a legal setback, saying that probationary employees who were fired a month or so ago have to be reinstated. The White House is appealing that ruling and pushing back tonight. The White House press secretary saying a single judge does not have the authority to overwrite a president's directive.

So, Jake, even as the workforce is being shrunken, if you will, one judge is saying some of these have to be reinstated. So, again, more moves we're seeing of the president's plan to reshape and remake and shrink the size of the federal government. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Jeff Zeleny, thanks so much.

He said his target is to cut 80,000 employees and Veterans Affairs Secretary Doug Collins is joining us live to explain who, when, and if this could have any impact on services for veterans in the U.S.

Plus, brand new reaction from Ukrainian President Zelenskyy as U.S. officials met with Russia's President Putin about a ceasefire proposal today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: What I instructed everybody, including Steve, what we're looking for, to discuss concepts of land, concepts of power plants because it's complicated. You know, you have a whole -- you're sort of creating the edge of a country

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Thankfully President Trump, they're referring to Special Envoy Steve Witkoff, not Steve Bannon. That was the president telling reporters about his mandate for Witkoff's trip to Moscow, discussing, quote, concepts of land in Ukraine, which in Trump's mind, Ukraine may need to give to its aggressor, Russia, in order to secure peace.

Let's get straight to CNN's Clarissa Ward in the capital of Ukraine, Kyiv. Clarissa, do Ukrainian leaders feel these talks are progressing in the right direction?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think they believe that these talks are progressing in exactly the direction that they expected, Jake. Essentially, President Zelenskyy saying in response to President Putin's comments in that press conference earlier that his words were, quote, very predictable and very manipulative. He went on to basically accuse President Putin of being too much of a coward to just come out and say that basically Russia wants to continue the war. He went on to say that Ukraine, unlike Russia, will not be getting in the way of peace and trying to make things difficult.

If you look at the actual content of what President Putin said during that press conference, he sort of seems to be wanting to like have his cake and eat it too, Jake. On the one hand, he said, yes, it's a great idea. It's a correct idea, the idea of this 30-day ceasefire, and we welcome it.

[18:20:00]

But, and it was a big but, and he went on to list a raft of kind of preconditions. Some of those including that during this 30-day complete ceasefire, Ukraine would have to stop training its troops, it would not be able to mobilize its troops, it would not be able to receive any weaponry. He went on to raise questions about what would happen in Kursk, that enclave that the Ukrainian forces had taken last August in Russia, which Russian forces are now poised to claim complete victory over, and a number of different issues he raised, essentially trying to really apparently slow this whole process down. But he was careful, Jake, to heap praise upon President Trump, to tell him that he was incredibly grateful for this opportunity because I think the Russians really don't want to risk alienating this kind of warm spirit that has been established between the two presidents. And I should say as well, it remains to be seen. We don't know yet what Witkoff will walk away with, what might have happened during those talks. He was expected to meet President Putin at some point tonight, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Clarissa Ward in Ukraine, stay safe. Thank you so much.

Let's bring in former State Department Spokesperson for the Biden administration Ned Price, and Senior Fellow at the Hudson Institute Rebeccah Heinrichs.

Rebeccah, is it inevitable, no matter who's in the White House, that to end this war Ukraine would have to cede land?

REBECCAH HEINRICHS, SENIOR FELLOW, HUDSON INSTITUTE: That's my view. But it matters on what terms. So, it can't be a du jour. recognition, legal recognition that this is rightfully Russia's, the current Russian occupied territory. It's going to be de facto. In other words, we're going to understand that this is just the reality, and that's going to be a frozen conflict. But I think the United States needs to be especially adamant that there's no international, you know, official recognition that it belongs to Russia. It's going to be important that we send that message so that you don't encourage further aggression.

And you're also going to have to have a Ukraine that is strong internally, that's its own domestic military capability, which is why Russia's demands at this point are completely dead on arrival. This is going to be a necessary condition for Ukraine, that they're going to be going to have a strong domestic military capability to prevent further Russian aggression.

TAPPER: Ned, do you agree?

NED PRICE, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESMAN, BIDEN ADMINISTRATION: I do, Jake. Look, I think the central question is not so much what land, and you can distinguish between land that Russia seized in 2014 versus land that they seized since 2022. I think there's a question about how they do this and the way they've talked about this, they being the Trump administration, I think has not been helpful in terms of airing this publicly, and I think prematurely in the way that we've heard from Secretary of Defense Hegseth.

But I think the real question and what Rebeccah was alluding to is the question of who and really who decides. This cannot be a decision that emanates from Moscow, neither can it be a decision that emanates from Washington or Paris or London for that matter. This has to be a decision that emanates from Kyiv. In other words, no other country can and should dictate what territorial concessions, if any, Ukraine needs to make. Any country, any entity that does that is in some ways no better than Vladimir Putin that has been trying to wrest this territory away by force. This is going to have to be a question for Zelenskyy and ultimately a question for the people of Ukraine themselves.

TAPPER: Rebeccah, President Trump was asked if he had leverage that the U.S. could place on Putin, such as sanctions, and take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I do have leverage, but I don't want to talk about leverage now, because right now we're talking to him and, and based on the statements he made today, they were pretty positive, I think.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What kind of leverage do you think would work on Putin?

HEINRICHS: Well, I think ultimately it's going to be, I think we're going to start with economic sanctions. And so there have been waivers placed on energy sanctions so the E.U. could continue buying certain countries that are very dependent on Russian energy. It's essentially funded Russia's war effort. So, I think cranking up sanctions and enforcing those and making sure there's not a waiver there is going to be really important to crush the Russian military's effort there.

But I think it's also going to be those peacekeepers, I mean, I think European peacekeepers with some kind of American security backing in some fashion or form is going to send a strong signal to Russia that the United States is still going to enforce this piece in some fashion to make sure that there's not continued aggression after this.

That's going to send a pretty strong message, message to Russia. We're a long way from that at this point. Obviously, President Trump doesn't want to reveal his cards, but those are the ones that are going to work.

TAPPER: All right, Rebeccah Heinrichs and Ned Price, thanks to both you, I really appreciate it.

How can the Trump administration guarantee that big cuts at the Department of Veterans Affairs won't cause serious issues for the veterans who serve this country? Well, I'm going to talk to the brand new V.A. secretary, Doug Collins, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, we are continuing to attract the developments across the federal government as today is the deadline for federal agencies to submit to the White House their plans to reduce their workforce. This comes as the Department of Veterans Affairs has been saying it plans to cut 80,000 jobs, not specific jobs delineated, but that's their goal, they said.

And joining us down to discuss is the secretary of the Department of Veterans Affairs, Doug Collins. Secretary Collins, thanks so much for joining us.

So, your office asked to respond to what Senator Tammy Duckworth had said on our show about veterans losing their jobs across the federal government and within your agency. So, let me play some of what she had to say and get your response on the backside.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TAMMY DUCKWORTH (D-IL): We finally, in a bipartisan way, passed funding to hire more people to take care of these veterans. And those new people are now all probationary employees because they've been hired within the last two years. And so those are the ones who are most likely being laid off on the frontlines of being laid off, and so veterans are going to find themselves waiting longer for care.

We already hear about veterans having had their surgeries canceled or postponed, longer wait times for caregivers.

[18:30:05]

These are people who -- family members who care for disabled veterans are not being able to get the support they need from the caregivers hotline.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: All right. So, what is your response?

DOUG COLLINS, VETERANS AFFAIRS SECRETARY: Well, I think the biggest thing is Senator Duckworth's entitled to her own opinion, but she's not entitled to the facts, her own facts, and here's the issue. You know, I love what she said is probably folks who recover the PACT Act, really one of the interesting information is probationary employees made up less than one half of 1 percent, and none of them actually involve frontline work with either healthcare or in claims and disabilities.

So, when we look at this picture in totality, the question is, is it really what's happened in the last few weeks is the problem or really is it the last ten years when the GAO is reported that the VHA of our veterans health and our services have been on a high risk list for ten years. And that means that they were susceptible to fraud, waste, and abuse, that they were susceptible to poor patient care.

What's really interesting to me, Jake, and it's really interesting, and I've known Senator Duckworth for the years we served in the House together, is it seems to me that she's saying that the V.A. was doing really well and perfect until just a few weeks ago when these changes all of a sudden occurred, and now people are getting their healthcare delayed. But you know something I didn't hear her say this in December. I didn't see it reported anywhere on media. I'm talking about surgeries and stuff that have been delayed, or regular. normal health care delays.

But we're working -- the V.A. is not perfect, but we're working it now to have a different focus. Instead of just throwing money and people at it, as we've seen during the last four years, we're actually looking for solutions to what actually works.

TAPPER: So, let me ask you, because you did note accurately that the VAO has been on the GAO, or Government Accountability Office high risk list for, as you note, programs and operations with serious vulnerabilities to waste, fraud, abuse. The GAO also cites failure of the V.A. to provide timely healthcare, cites them for programs overrun with delays and poor management. And I guess the question is, would laying off this goal of 80,000 workers, would that help provide timely services or would it hurt it?

COLLINS: Well, let's be open about the 80,000, which is a goal. Actually, we're taking V.A. career employees. We're taking our, all of our departments. We're looking at this on a case-by-case basis. We're saying, where do we have overlap? Where do we have things that could be moved? And here's where the interesting part is nobody wants to talk about. We've already done that when we actually looked at it and we cut out officially through contracts or probationary, and we've moved that to the frontlines of veterans healthcare by putting the money into prevention and other things that are needed.

Here's the interesting thing, and, Jake, you've been covering up here for a long time and you're a good reporter doing this, but have you ever noticed that it seems like the only answers seem to be, let's just add more money and time and that's going to solve our problem? Really, it's the management issue that you just mentioned from GAO that bothers me. Because what in the last few years we've seen from the previous administration, they moved away from the Mission Act, which was the Mission Act also not only allowed VA to have health care, but allowed the veteran to have choice in the community so they could get healthcare quicker.

But when you want to keep everything in and you believe that you're the only answer and you're hindering people from using the full healthcare that they have, which by the way, Donald Trump and the House passed back a few years ago, then you're actually hurting the veteran.

So, I'm bringing it back to the point where we follow the law. And I think, yes, we can do better if we get the right tools and the right hands. The V.A. employee is one of the best that we have, but we can make it better by giving them the right tools and attracting people in who want healthcare to take care of our veterans.

TAPPER: What is your message to the veterans out there who hear that number 80,000, that's a big number again, I know it's a goal, it hasn't been done, but it's a big number, who are worried that those cuts could make it harder to get the services they need? I want you to take a listen to a couple of veterans that we talked to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PATRICK MURRAY, WOUNDED IN COMBAT IN IRAQ: What I use V.A. for is things like my wheelchair. Wheelchairs can be thousands of dollars. If those services are reduced at V.A., if certain prosthetics, if certain other functions like that are rolled back, that's going to cost a lot for veterans like me. JACK FERGUSON, VIETNAM WAR VETERAN: I rely on them for all my vaccinations, my booster shots, my COVID shots I got there, my flu shots I get there.

REPORTER: Concerns that some of that may be curtailed?

FERGUSON: Absolutely, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, I get that these are fears. These are not facts. They're fears. But I know you're also concerned about veterans being afraid of these things. What's your response to them?

COLLINS: My response is this, is if you're listening to those out there, whether they be in what we've seen is the attacks coming from union reps, we've been seeing it come even from organizations of veterans who are supposed to be helping veterans sometimes with media. That's why I'm here on your show, Jake, to say, look, quit listening to those who are giving gloom and doom and trying to make out and scare you.

Look, I take an interesting perspective, especially the first one that you just had on there.

[18:35:00]

My daughter's in a wheelchair. My daughter was born with spina bifida. I understand probably better than anyone what the cost of wheelchairs are. And interestingly enough, nothing that either one of those veterans mentioned is even being remotely touched at the V.A., even remotely touched. In fact, if anything, we're going to put more money toward prosthetics care because we do that better than anybody. We're going to look at these ways.

So, if there's organizations, even if they're members of Congress, whoever is trying to tell you, be scared. then I'm telling you, don't be scared. We're trying to make it better. We're trying to actually put things in place that have been promised to you for years and never done because we'd rather take care of the organization than take care of the veteran. So, please bear with us, go to my social media, go to wherever you need to. I'm giving the true updates of what's happening here all the time.

And also let me touch one thing before we end.

TAPPER: Yes.

COLLINS: Senator Duckworth did something that frankly very much bothered me and I'm offended that she would go there because she knows better, and that is that veteran crisis line and others are not getting their calls done. If you're a veteran, you need help, you call 988, press 1, 24/7, 365, those lines have never not been answered during the last few weeks and even the last few years. And to say anything different is offensive and wrong. TAPPER: Let me -- I'm glad you brought that up because I was going to bring that up as well. Because I talked to a veteran with a veteran's crisis line who had been fired, I think, during some of these DOGE cuts and then he was rehired. Our understanding was about 11 people, but that's certainly -- and, look, if you stop those firings from happening, great, that's awesome, but that I think is one of the reasons why people are worried because it does seem like some of the DOGE cuts or DOGE-inspired cuts, some of them ones outside the V.A., such as the nuclear weapons experts or the pandemic detectives, you know, the air traffic controllers, and some of them, such as the veterans crisis line folks fired, then rehired, were also happy they're rehired, but that seemed to convey a certain recklessness.

COLLINS: Yes. One, Jake, I have to apologize. Your team cut your sound off. So, I only caught part of your question, but I see what you're headed this. Let me just clear the record on the veteran crisis line responders. None of them, period, none of them were fired. The inside the veteran crisis line, we had staff members who did not answer the phone, who are not front facing to the veteran, who were, in the first one, let go.

But when we found that out, which by the way, any employee who's been let go, what it meant was is their supervisor did not put in an exemption because we had many exemptions when it when it first came to light that they may be fired where they could ask for an exemption. So, their supervisor saw fit that their job wasn't forward-facing or mission critical and did not put in an exemption for them to be hired.

But in that crisis line issue, we hired those back simply because we did not even want to give the appearance that somebody in the bench crowd (ph), basically a senator, who would take the wrong information and try and use it against us.

TAPPER: Well, we're glad they have their jobs back. Veterans Affairs Secretary Doug Collins, come back anytime, sir. Thank you so much for your time.

COLLINS: Jake, take care.

TAPPER: Just hours before his confirmation hearing today, the White House yanked the nominee to be head of the Centers for Disease Control. What we're learning about why, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: Our Health Lead now, the White House abruptly pulled the nomination of Trump's pick to lead the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, or CDC. Dr. David Weldon said in a statement that he was notified just hours before his confirmation hearing was set to begin. Weldon's selection was severely criticized by doctors and people who are in the scientific community because he has been a longtime proponent of the long debunked theory that vaccines cause autism.

CNN's Meg Tirrell joins us now. Meg, can you walk us through how quickly this happened? I have to say, like why would he be nominated to begin with if he believes such nonsense?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, it's interesting. He disputes what some people he says say about him, but then his own statement kind of refutes that, refuting, if one can put it that way. But this all happened really fast. I mean, we heard that the nomination had been pulled about 45 minutes before his confirmation hearing was supposed to start this morning at 10:00 A.M. And what sources are telling us is a lot of this started to really go wrong earlier this week at a meeting with Republican staffers.

Now, according to a source who was in that meeting, Weldon came to that meeting pretty unprepared about the role of CDC director, not knowing basic facts about the authorities of the director or having a strategic plan for what he would do at CDC. I know we've reached out to Weldon for comment on that and haven't heard back, but he did send us a lengthy statement, three and a half pages long, about his perspective on all of this, where he said that there were issues with staffers for two Republican senators, Susan Collins from Maine and Bill Cassidy from Louisiana. He says, staffers of Collins' accused him of being anti-vax, where the source in the meeting actually said they were asking about how he would counter the perception that he's anti- vax. He also said of Cassidy that he was, quote, throwing around the claim that I was anti-vax or that I believe that vaccines cause autism, which I have never said.

But, Jake, check out this interview that Weldon gave in 2019 that CNN's Andrew Kaczynski found.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FMR. REP. DAVE WELDON (R-FL): Some children can get an autism spectrum disorder from a vaccine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TIRRELL: Now, Jake, as you noted, multiple studies have shown no link between vaccines and autism, but in his own three-and-a-half page long statement here, Weldon says that if he had been confirmed at CDC, he was planning on going back into the CDC database and quietly investigating the CDC'S claim from 25 years ago that a preservative in vaccines caused no harm. He also in this statement, defends Andrew Wakefield, who is the author of that debunked and retracted paper that initially brought up that false link.

TAPPER: I mean, if you're going to believe nonsense, at least stand up and admit it.

[18:45:01]

Meg Tirrell, thanks so much.

They're facing charges back in Romania of human trafficking. So, why are the Tate brothers being embraced by some members of the MAGA movement?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) TAPPER: A closer look now at the impact a pair of prominent influencers have in the MAGA movement.

Self-proclaimed misogynist Andrew Tate and his brother Tristan recently arrived in Florida. They had been in Romania, where they are facing charges of human trafficking.

Andrew Tate amassed a massive online following, peddling sexist content about male dominance and bragging about committing violent acts against women.

CNN's Brian Todd looks at why this is appealing to a certain segment of the MAGA movement.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A friendly bro hug --

[18:50:01]

DANA WHITE, CEO & PRESIDENT, UFC: Welcome to the stage, boys.

TODD: -- at a recent UFC power slap event in Las Vegas.

The man on the left, Dana White, CEO and president of the wildly popular Ultimate Fighting Championship, UFC. The men on the right in the beige and yellow sport coats who White is greeting Andrew and Tristan Tate, self-proclaimed misogynists who have developed a large online following and who are charged criminally in Romania with crimes against young women, including human trafficking. They have denied those allegations.

Dana White is a prominent ally of President Trump's, introducing Trump at last summers Republican National Convention.

WHITE: I know I'm going to choose real American leadership and a real American badass.

TODD: White is not the only prominent figure from Trump's MAGA universe to embrace the Tate brothers.

ANDREW TATE, RIGHT WING INFLUENCER: Good to meet you, sir.

TODD: They've appeared on recent podcasts hosted by two Trump supporters and another podcast hosted by an ally of Dana White's.

S.E. CUPP, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There is an effort to embrace folks like the Tate brothers in an attempt to bring them into the fold. But again, with seemingly, no care about the values that Trump, MAGA and the Republican Party are now representing.

DONALD TRUMP, JR., SON OF PRESIDENT TRUMP: It's Don Jr. How are you doing, buddy?

TATE: How are you doing, friend?

TODD: Last summer, Donald Trump Jr., in a discussion on X with Andrew Tate, expressed sympathy with Tate.

TRUMP JR.: You've got people attacking you as far as I'm concerned, for the same nonsense that they're attacking me. They just want to silence you.

TODD: Why have some in the MAGA verse embraced two brothers accused of violence against young women and girls.

REECE PECK, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, COLLEGE OF STATEN ISLAND: I think they recognize that the media power that Tate represents. He is one of the leaders, the thought leaders of the manosphere. And Trump really owes a lot of his political ascendancy to this alternative online video space.

REPORTER: Donald Trump helped get the travel ban lifted?

TODD: The Tates are in the U.S. because the Romanian government recently lifted restrictions on their travel. There have been reports that the Trump administration pressed Romanian authorities to do that, but the White House and Romanian officials say the U.S. government had no direct role in bringing them to the U.S.

The Tates continue to maintain their innocence.

TATE: We live in a democratic society where it's innocent until proven guilty, and I think my brother and I are largely misunderstood.

TODD: Some conservative media supporters of Trump, like the X account Misfit Patriot, have criticized Dana White for his embrace of the Tates.

Trump himself was recently asked about the brothers coming to the U.S.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I just know nothing about it. We'll check it out.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD (on camera): We reached out to the White House separately. They're not commenting directly on this controversy. We also reached out to representatives for Dana White for response to the criticism of his embrace of the Tate brothers. We have not heard back -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Brian Todd, thanks so much.

We're joined now by Matt Shea. He's coauthor of a book called "Clown World: Four Years Inside Andrew Tate's Manosphere".

Help me out here. What is the appeal of these folks?

MATT SHEA, CO-AUTHOR, "CLOWN WORLD: FOUR YEARS INSIDE ANDREW TATE'S MANOSPHERE": Andrew Tate and his brother appealed to young men because they project this kind of caricatured version of masculinity, fast cars surrounded by lots of women. But they, in reality, are just exploding those young men by selling them courses, which is how they made their money. And they've successfully gamed social media to become arguably the most famous men in the world.

TAPPER: They're pretty explicitly not only misogynistic, but I think Andrew Tate's been accused of antisemitism, too. How widespread is their influence in the MAGA movement?

SHEA: It's incredibly widespread, and they are allied to the highest levels of the Trump administration. I mean, for example, Paul Ingrassia, one of Tate's lawyers who defended him in the human trafficking case, he's being investigated for, is now a top White House official.

And so the alliance is there, and Trump probably thinks that the Tate brothers helped to radicalize a large portion of young men towards the MAGA movement and helped him get elected.

TAPPER: There's obviously a right of free speech, and they and their supporters have a right to express their views. However repugnant, misogynistic, antisemitic others may find them.

But one wonders, is there a risk for people in the MAGA movement, Don Jr., or whomever embracing them?

SHEA: A hundred percent. I mean, I think in terms of pure crazy factor, this might be the craziest thing the Trump administration has done so far. I mean, allegedly pressuring the Romanian government to release two people who are being investigated for human trafficking and serial rape, charges that they deny. But I've spoken to some of these alleged victims. There's at least 48 alleged victims in all of the cases against the Tates currently.

I mean, why is it not political suicide to align yourself with these people? That's the question. And it may turn out to be, but I think it's very surprising Dana White hasn't said anything about this yet. The UFC hasn't said anything about this yet.

I'm wondering if Mark Zuckerberg is worried because he, of course, recently added Dana White to the board for Meta, presumably because, you know, it gave him some sort of cool factor in his new drive to be considered more masculine.

TAPPER: Yeah.

Matt Shea, thanks so much.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:59:27]

TAPPER: Our last lead start with our national lead. Mudslides in California, trapping people in their cars after a powerful storm slammed to the West Coast. But the same storm that caused the mudslides is now sweeping across the United States, threatening wildfires and tornadoes in other areas. In our out of this world lead, you have the chance to see the moon turn red during a total lunar eclipse overnight. This happens when the earth is between the sun and the moon, lined up in a perfect row so that the moon passes into our planet's shadow. The maximum eclipse is expected just before 3:00 a.m. Eastern. Send us photos.

I have two books coming out. One is in May. It's called "Original Sin". It's about President Biden's decision to run for reelection and the cover up of his decline.

The other one comes out in October. It's "Race Against Terror", about the hunt to prosecute an al Qaeda terrorist who killed Americans and was out to kill more.

Check them out at JakeTapper.com.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.

Over to you, Erin.