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The Lead with Jake Tapper

White House Says, Expect to See More Mass Deportations; Fed Warns of Uncertainty in U.S. Economy Amid Trade War; FBI Investigating Tesla Vandalism as Potential Terror Acts. Cuomo Campaign Reports $1.5M Raised Ahead Of June Primary. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired March 19, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead, I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, the White House continuing to lash out against federal judges who have ruled against President Trump, accusing them of being, quote, partisan activists who are trying to, quote, derail Trump's agenda, this as the judge who blocked the president's deportation flights, or trying to, is demanding more information by tomorrow at noon.

[18:00:08]

Plus, a significant announcement from the Federal Reserve today as the Fed decides how much you pay in interest rates. What these top economic officials are saying today about the chances the U.S. seems headed for a recession.

Also, right now, a CNN investigation shining a light on the heartbreaking reality for families of veterans who died by suicide. Why these families say they have to fight for years to get death benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs.

And Tesla booted from an upcoming auto show over security concerns after a string of attacks on Tesla facilities, including one this weekend that included Molotov cocktails and spurred an investigation into potential domestic terrorism.

Our Lead Tonight, the Trump administration says it will continue its deportation campaign against undocumented migrants as a federal judge considers a legal challenge to Trump's deportation authority.

Let's get straight to CNN's Priscilla Alvarez. Priscilla, what's the latest?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly, Jake, the White House is saying that all of this will continue insofar as the deportations of undocumented immigrants. Now, the question is, will they be able to continue these deportations, speedy ones, at that, under the Alien Enemies Act, that obscure 18th century law, that has only been used in times of war. In fact, three times during military conflict, in fact, most recently with World War II.

Now, the basis of this for the administration is Tren de Aragua. That's that Venezuelan gang that President Trump talked about repeatedly on the campaign trail. They also recently designated a foreign terrorist organization and they are using that as the basis for why they should be allowed to invoke this law and to use it on migrants.

Now, we are learning more details in court filings about who exactly we're talking about here. In fact, more than half of the 261 migrants who were sent to El Salvador over the weekend fell under this sweeping wartime authority. We're also learning from a senior ICE official how they were able to select the people they were going to send to El Salvador. They said that they used methods and techniques based off their own work with gang members.

But they also conceded that some did not have criminal records in the United States. I'm going to read that part for you. It says, quote, while it is true that many of the TDA members referring there to Tren de Aragua, were moved under the AEA do not have criminal records in the United States. That is because they have only been in the United States for a short period of time.

Now, the White House was asked today to shed more light on who exactly -- we do not have identities of those sent to El Salvador. And this was the reasoning provided by the White House press secretary.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And they had great evidence and indication. They have the highest degree of professionalism and they were 100 percent confident in the individuals that were sent home on these flights and in the president's executive authority to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: Now, part of the question she was answering there is why they're withholding these identities when they have also posted photos and videos with the names of people they've arrested in the interior of the United States. Her argument has been that this is a counterterrorism operation, Jake.

TAPPER: What is expected to happen to those migrants who are at that prison now?

ALVAREZ: Well, Jake, we really are in uncharted territory. These migrants are now considered to be in the custody of El Salvador. I've been talking to immigration attorneys who had clients that they believe have been sent to El Salvador. They have no idea what they're going to do next. They do have no sense of what the process is here because they are no longer in U.S. custody. The question is, after they complete a year, which is something that the El Salvadoran president said that they would be in this notorious prison for, what happens? We just don't have the answer to that, and that is what is so terrifying to the attorneys and the families.

TAPPER: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, thanks so much. Now to developments in another controversial deportation case, the undocumented parents of a ten-year-old American citizen. She's an American citizen. Her parents are not. She has brain cancer. And the family was deported to Mexico last month. The family has filed a complaint against the Department of Homeland Security. They're seeking humanitarian parole, not to come back to the United States for good, but just so the daughter can resume cancer treatment in the U.S., where she was getting cancer treatment, this, according to the immigration nonprofit called the Texas Civil Rights Project.

The parents chose to deport, to self-deport, with their five children. The children are all U.S. citizens except for one. They did this because they didn't want to be separated from their kids. The family was stopped at an immigration checkpoint when they were headed to a hospital in Houston where their sick daughter was getting this medical care. The parents' complaint also alleges civil rights abuses and accuses Customs and Border Protection officers of confiscating the child's seizure medication.

Now, CBP denies the claims. They tell CNN, quote, CBP remains committed to enforcing immigration laws with professionalism, compassion, and accountability.

[18:05:05]

So, let's bring in former Virginia attorney general and former acting deputy of the Department of Homeland Security during the first Trump administration, Ken Cuccinelli. Ken, I have a lot of things to ask you about in addition to this case, but let's start with it because I understand the parents are undocumented. They have chose to self- deport. They are seeking humanitarian parole for their sick daughter, who is an American citizen, so she can continue getting the cancer treatment in the U.S. that she was getting before they self-deported. Do you think that this humanitarian parole should be granted?

KEN CUCCINELLI, FORMER ACTING DEPUTY SECRETARY, DHS: I think that the secretary has the power, Secretary of Homeland Security, as well as state, as well as the attorney general, all have the power to grant waivers on an individual basis, including for short periods of time, like to come in and get medical treatment. Houston is a hub for both medical treatment and for America's relations with the rest of the Western Hemisphere to our south. I do not think that that would be a problem for a family that self-deported, to use your phrase, and they did so to stay together, which is an appropriate decision to make. That power exists for this purpose.

But let's face it, Jake, there's 20 million or so, we can debate the number, of illegal aliens in the country. As people leave they're -- some of them are in hardship and there are going to be some of these cases. That's not a reason not to deport illegal aliens. It is a reason for the existence of that waiver authority, an authority that was badly abused in both the Biden and Obama administrations to create whole new programs, which is part of why the use of it has become so suspect over the years.

TAPPER: But it sounds like you are just saying, and we can move on right after this, it sounds like you were saying that you would recommend to Attorney General Bondi or the DHS secretary or whomever, this seems like a decent exemption?

CUCCINELLI: It does seem like a decent exemption, again, to come back for the purpose of medical treatment and then depart again. It actually fits what Secretary Noem has been saying, look, if you leave on your own, you preserve for yourself the ability to come back into the United States in the future.

So, I think this fits very well with even the deterrent posture that Secretary Noem has taken. So, yes, I do think this is a good case for a waiver.

So, on the federal judge who's demanding more information from the Trump administration about the recent deportation of these alleged Venezuelan gang members from the U.S. to El Salvador, Judge Boasberg says he's considering a legal challenge to Trump's use of the Alien Enemies Act. The U.S., of course, is not at war with Venezuela. Only Congress has the constitutional responsibility to declare that. Do you think that this assertion that this law is being used, which does apply to invasions as well, but I don't know how the Supreme Court is ultimately going to decide whether this counts as an invasion, as written in the 1798 statute, do you think this is an overreach potentially?

CUCCINELLI: So, no, I think this is a very strategic use of this old law. You are correct, Jake. It hasn't been used outside of war, but as you noted, it has provisions that are available outside of wartime. It's at 50 USC Section 21, and some of the bases for its application do not require the existence of a state of war.

And Tren de Aragua is not like any other gang in the United States. It has, on occasion throughout the Western Hemisphere, done the dirty work of the Maduro administration. You can't say that of, say, MS13. They've never done the dirty work of an El Salvadoran government. You wouldn't say that of the Honduras equivalents or the Guatemalan equivalent gangs. They haven't done that.

So, the Trump administration has, from a legal standpoint, made a wise strategic decision in terms of who they enforce the Alien Enemies Act on first to work their way through this legal challenge, and the judge has questions, as one would expect, and this will work its way through the process.

And I think if you look at the four circuit courts of appeals that have considered the question of the federal government's role in invasions, all four of them across the country have found that that is not a justiciable question. So, for the non-lawyers, the courts have decided that the courts don't have jurisdiction over determining this question. It is a question exclusively for the determination by the executive branch. And I think, ultimately, that's what you're going to find here.

TAPPER: All right. Ken Cuccinelli, thanks so much. I appreciate your time.

CUCCINELLI: Thank you.

TAPPER: The Federal Reserve did not cut interest rates today, but its leaders did speak about the possibility of a recession in the United States. We're going to bring you their comments next.

[18:10:00]

Plus, investigations into multiple acts of vandalism against Tesla facilities, including one that involved Molotov cocktails. Now the U.S. attorney general is calling these attacks, quote, nothing short of domestic terrorism.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Money Lead today, the Federal Reserve is warning of uncertainty ahead in the U.S. economy while announcing it is keeping interest rates exactly where they are right now. They're keeping rates as is because they say they cannot predict the full economic impact of President Trump's tariffs.

CNN's Matt Egan is with us now. Matt, tell us what happened at the Fed meeting today. Do they seem about the economy in a potential recession?

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Well, Jake, they do sound more worried and that's in part because they have such low visibility right now. They know the Trump administration has proposed sweeping changes on taxes, on federal spending, on immigration, of course, on tariffs, but they don't know what's going to actually happen and they don't know how it's going to impact the economy, especially when you think about the trade war.

[18:15:03]

Tariffs are on and they're off again. They're dialed up, they're dialed back. It can change on almost an hourly basis.

So, the Fed is basically in a wait and see mode right now. They're kind of like a driver stuck in heavy fog. They're staying where they are right now. Except right now, it's not real fog, of course. It's the fog of the trade war. But they did make significant changes to their economic projections, all of them moving in the wrong direction. They're now calling for slower GDP growth, higher inflation and slightly higher unemployment, all of those things moving in the wrong direction.

Take a listen to Fed Chair Jerome Powell today explain exactly why the inflation outlook has gotten worse.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEROME POWELL, FEDERAL RESERVE CHAIRMAN: Inflation has started to move up now, we think partly in response to tariffs, and there may be a delay in further progress over the course of this year. Forecasting is always very, very hard, and in the current situation, I just think uncertainty is, you know, remarkably high.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

EGAN: Remarkably high. Remarkably high, and yet the Fed is still penciling in two interest cuts, interest rate cuts for this year. It's hard to see how much confidence they have in those interest rate cuts because of all the uncertainties right now.

I did ask Fed Chair Jerome Powell about whether or not he's worried about the market drop and if that could cause consumers and businesses to start spending less. And he said, look, the hard economic data, the real economy is still solid right now. But they are on high alert to see if there's any signs of people starting to spend less because, of course, that would do real damage to the economy.

TAPPER: All right. Matt Egan, thanks so much.

In our National Lead, violent attacks against Tesla stores and vehicles, the latest in Las Vegas yesterday, where police say a person used Molotov cocktails to destroy multiple cars. The White House is denouncing the attacks, calling them acts of domestic terrorism.

CNN Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst John Miller is with us. John, does this qualify as domestic terrorism?

JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: If you take all the politics out of it, and you go by the pure FBI definition of domestic terrorism, it is the use of fear, violence, property destruction for -- to coerce, you know, somebody on a political issue. So, if this is to attack Elon Musk because of his relationship and actions on behalf of Donald Trump, it would qualify based on the definition.

TAPPER: We're learning of a second Molotov cocktail attack on a Tesla charging station in South Carolina last night. What do we know about that?

MILLER: Well, what happened last night is they unsealed the charges against an individual named Daniel Clark Pounder. And this is an individual who allegedly set fire by throwing a number of Molotov cocktails into a Tesla charging station behind a restaurant there.

Agents from the ATF using video surveillance saw a person that they recorded on tape who then turns up later in a parking lot, but in the second image without the mask, then they ran license plate readers around the area, trace that to his car, his apartment, and allegedly found a number of things that tie him to that act.

But as you kind of foreshadowed in the first question, he's not charged with domestic terrorism because the domestic terrorism laws don't really exist here. When there's what they call domestic terrorism in the United States, they charge them with whatever the instant crimes are. In this case, he's charged with arson. TAPPER: The effects of these attacks is obviously sweeping today. The Vancouver International Auto Show removed Tesla from the event because of safety concerns. Are their fears justified?

MILLER: Well, what you're seeing is that Tesla, because of its association with Elon Musk and Musk because of his association with DOGE and Trump is becoming a target to certain groups. And, you know, that is a thing where the people running that conference just decided they didn't want that to become a distraction.

TAPPER: Elon Musk has accused Democratic groups of organizing these violent attacks, these acts of violence and vandalism. Is there any evidence to indicate that there is a connection between the attacks and any of these Democratic groups?

MILLER: Absolutely zero evidence so far from what we've seen that there is any connection between the attackers, any master plan in running this, any Democratic groups behind it. Mostly, these are people who are getting together online and listening to calls to action and acting out as individuals.

TAPPER: All right. John Miller, thanks so much.

Coming up next, a heartbreaking battle for benefits, families of veterans who died by suicide tell CNN that they are having to spend years Fighting to get death benefits from the Department of Veterans Affairs. The CNN investigation, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:20:00]

TAPPER: Let's talk about the military in our Politics Lead. The Trump administration's war on DEI, or diversity, equity, and inclusion, it's now impacting subjects that have nothing to do with DEI. Articles about September 11th, and the Holocaust, and cancer awareness, articles about sexual assault and suicide prevention have been removed, or flagged for removal from Pentagon websites. This is apparently part of the Defense Department's effort to comply with Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's order to scrub diversity content from all platforms.

But much of the content has been scrubbed not by individual units or actual human beings, but seemingly by an automatic script, essentially searching for keywords. Here's a case in point when it comes to overeager, overscrubbing. As recently as this morning, if you had visited the defense.gov website and searched for Army veteran and baseball great Jackie Robinson, who served in World War II, you would find a series of articles about sports heroes who served.

[18:25:06]

No article actually on Jackie Robinson. The only mention of Jackie Robinson we could find was in an article about Pee Wee Reese, a white teammate of his on the Brooklyn Dodgers, who famously accepted Robinson when Robinson broke Major League Baseball's color barrier. But breaking news, as of a few hours ago, the story dedicated to Jackie Robinson, or at least one of them, is back on the defense.gov website. However, to find it, you have to look for news and then you have to look for feature stories and then you have to search Jackie Robinson's name and then you can scroll down and find a 2021 story about this great American hero.

When contacted by CNN today to find out why they are censoring stories about Jackie Robinson, the Pentagon press secretary responded, quote, everyone at the Defense Department loves Jackie Robinson, as well as the Navajo code talkers, the Tuskegee airmen, the Marines at Iwo Jima and so many others. We are pleased by the rapid compliance across the department with the directive removing DEI content from all platforms.

In the rare cases that content is removed either deliberately or by mistake that is out of the clearly outlined scope of the directive, we instruct the components and they correct the content so it recognizes our heroes for their dedicated service alongside their fellow Americans, period, unquote.

And we're glad the page is back up. There is a larger point there. For those running the Pentagon, the new civilian leadership, who seem to want to act as if singling veterans and service members out by race or religion or gender or sexual orientation, that that singling out was started by the blacks, Latinos, Native Americans, Asians, Jews, Muslims, women, gays or lesbians. That's an interesting perception.

To take the Jackie Robinson example, for those of us who know something about Jackie Robinson, or even just those of us who bothered to read his memoir, I Never Had It Made, Lieutenant Jackie Robinson's experience in the Army, starting at Fort Riley in Kansas in 1943, was all about his race, and not by his choice.

Robinson writes about the major whom he phoned to try to get more seats for black soldiers in the small segregated section at the post- exchange. That major thought Robinson was white and used the N word in conversation. He writes about the fact that the University of Missouri football team would not play the Army football team because he, a black man, was on the team.

He writes about his time at Fort Hood in Texas when a white bus driver who objected to him talking to the white wife of one of his fellow white lieutenants told him to sit in the back of the bus. This confrontation, this bus driver telling Jackie Robinson to sit in the back of the bus, led to Jackie Robinson being court martialed. He was acquitted, ultimately, on all charges. But because of the court martial, Jackie Robinson missed going overseas with his outfit during World War II and then he was honorably discharged.

That's the story of Jackie Robinson's time in the Army. At least, as it's told by Jackie Robinson. It is all about race, or more specifically, all about the Army's then shameful racism before desegregation. The big question, of course, does the new civilian leadership of the Pentagon think that they are better judges of Jackie Robinson's Army story than is Jackie Robinson? Turning now to a CNN investigation which finds the Department of Veterans Affairs has denied crucial benefits to hundreds of families of veterans who died by suicide after being discharged from active duty, the V.A. has strict rules requiring these families to prove their loved ones deaths stemmed from their time in the military. But as CNN discovered, even some families that could show that their veterans, their loved ones, had been diagnosed by the V.A. itself, still inexplicably, had their claims denied.

A note for our viewers, this story does involve discussions about veteran suicide that some may find upsetting. Here's CNN's Kyung Lah.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY EVANS, SURVIVING SPOUSE: We're stuck, and the V.A. is keeping us there.

KYUNG LAH, CNN SENIOR INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Emily Evans can't move forward.

And your kids?

EVANS: Stuck.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes it feel like he's almost still here, but just in a different way.

LAH: Four children and their mother suspended in time, trapped in loss and bureaucratic battles, with the very agency dedicated to care for the soldier's family.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love daddy so much that if I don't have his baby blanket, I'll get nightmares.

[18:30:04]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Good morning, love. I got me some coffee.

LAH: Her father was Army Sergeant Michael Evans, an infantryman who deployed to Iraq twice, surviving more than two years of some of the war's worst combat, suffering traumatic brain injury from multiple IEDs.

Once home, a full life appeared to resume, but the war never left him.

EVANS: He came in the house one day. He stood right -- he just wanted to be held. And it was like his demons were standing right here in the room and I was trying to pull him back. And that was probably three days before he just snapped.

LAH: Two years ago, after a months-long depressive crisis that strained their marriage and family, Michael Evans died by suicide.

After Michael passed, did you reach out to the V.A.? Did you file a benefits claim?

EVANS: They eventually sent a letter and they decided that Michael's PTSD was not significant.

LAH: The V.A. denied her request for death benefits, a monthly payment to family members after a service related death.

EVANS: Positive for PTSD, positive for depression.

LAH: These are the V.A.'s own tests, own documents?

EVANS: Own documents. It's all PTSD. It's all his service. It's all from combat.

LAH: A CNN investigation found the V.A. denied crucial benefits to hundreds of families of veterans who died by suicide. We counted nearly 500 cases, but that's likely just a fraction of the total number. The V.A. says it doesn't track how many suicide related claims it processes, so exactly how many families have been denied remains unknown. And many veterans are reluctant to seek help. It's up to survivors to prove their loved ones suffered from PTSD.

LINDA GOULDING, SURVIVING SPOUSE: I would not wish these last nine years on my worst enemy. This is everything that I had given to the V.A.

LAH: Linda Goulding is a widow who was denied an appeal, Goulding submitted to the V.A. doctor's reports and a letter from her husband.

GOULDING: And it started out that it had started on this day and it will end on this day.

LAH: That day marked 40 years at Goulding's husband, James, had left Vietnam.

Even as a loving grandfather, Goulding carried the weight of his Marine Corps battalion known as the Walking Dead. It suffered one of the highest casualty rates of the war. On that 40-year anniversary, he threatened to end his own life. His wife called police.

GOULDING: They banged on the door, they called out his name, and when they went in, they heard a shot and then a thud.

LAH: When you went to the V.A., what did the V.A. say?

GOULDING: I had to prove that he had PTSD.

LAH: Proving it took her nine years. Our investigation found families like the Goulding's spent on average five and a half years trying to win benefits. Many don't ever get them.

GOULDING: I want the V.A. to help the other people with more empathy so other women would not have to do this ever, ever.

LAH: Emily Evans is in the middle of her battle with the V.A. Haunted, she says, by promises not honored.

What would you like to tell the V.A.? EVANS: I would like to see the V.A. take responsibility for this. I would like to see them step up. My husband did not die in the war but his mind did. And he deserves better. He deserved better. And he's not the only one.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LAH (on camera): The V.A. declined CNN's request for an on-camera interview. Instead, they sent us this statement, which begins, quote, V.A. is under new management, and this comes from a spokesperson nodding at the change in the administration and said that the V.A. is working across the department to improve survivor programs so that families can have the most supportive, convenient, and seamless experience possible in their time of grief.

[18:35:02]

Jake?

TAPPER: Kyung Lah, thank you. Heartbreaking piece, heartbreaking.

If you or someone you know are in crisis, call or text 988 to reach the suicide and crisis lifeline. 988 is available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. It's free and confidential. Again, that's 988. There is help for you. There is love for you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, the White House says it will take any legal challenges to President Trump's firing of two federal trade commissioners to the U.S. Supreme Court. The two Democrats got let go yesterday. Both claimed that Trump fired them illegally.

The firings are the latest example of the Trump administration undermining or significantly weakening independent watchdogs and federal regulators, critics say.

[18:40:00]

And joining us now is Axios' Senior Political Reporter Alex Eisenstadt, who is also the author of a brand new book. It's titled Revenge, The Inside Story of Trump's Return to Power. Look at this, Revenge. When you were coming up with the title, did you say, has anybody done Revenge yet? Oh no, they haven't, it must have been kind of --

ALEX EISENSTADT, SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER, AXIOS: It was an obvious title. But Michael Cohen's book is also called Revenge.

TAPPER: Okay, but not the inside story.

Anyway, there's so many scoops in here, it's such a great read, everybody should run out and get it. Trump has routinely criticized judges. Now, President Trump is going after a federal judge to try to stop the deportation plans over the weekend. His posted, quote, this judge, like many of the crooked judges I am forced to appear before, should be impeached.

I do want to ask you in keeping with Revenge and what you uncovered, how do you see this?

EISENSTADT: Well, this is in keeping with the theme that he's embraced after January 6th, which is a huge theme of his campaign, which is going after people who he believed has tried to victimize him, turn him into a martyr, and it actually has really worked for him politically because it binds himself, it binds him to his supporters, a large portion of the American public and voters who see him as a victim and as a vessel for their own frustration. So, when he goes after a judge or he goes after someone else, someone who's trying to stop him, that works for him politically.

TAPPER: Interesting. President Biden warned against revenge and retribution in his very last State of the Union before he dropped his reelection bid. After that speech in the book, you say, Trump said to aides, quote, there will be no retribution, there will be no revenge, wink, wink.

EISENSTADT: Right.

TAPPER: ,So he knows he's not supposed to think that way or say it, but --

EISENSTADT: Right. And this was an ongoing joke he would make on Trump Force One, his personal plane. So, he knew all along that revenge was going to be a theme, not just of his campaign, but also of his White House.

TAPPER: You also touched on President Trump's feud with Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, who challenged Trump during the Republican primary. There are some colorful comments from Trump like this, quote, I'm going to squash this guy like a bug. That's a great quote. And another quote about an Oval Office meeting when the governor asked about an endorsement, quote, he was like a beggar. This is when DeSantis was running for governor the first time. I could have said drop to your effing knees, Ron. What does this say to you about how President Trump regards not just rivals but anyone?

EISENSTADT: So one of the themes of this book is that Trump fashions himself as an old school political boss. During his first term in the White House, he would tell aides that he really admired a Brooklyn- based boss from decades ago by the name of Meade Esposito, a guy who traded on favors from people. And Trump sees himself as a Meade Esposito.

So, in other words, if you've, if he's done a favor for someone, which in this case he did a favor, he believes he did a favor for Ron DeSantis in terms of helping him win the governor's race, he believes that DeSantis owes him. And so he saw -- he sees everything through the lens of betrayal, and he believed that DeSantis betrayed him. And so he went out and tried to destroy DeSantis, not just to hurt him in this race, but to make him unelectable in the future. TAPPER: So, what do you make of the larger argument, now that you've done this deep dive and produced this great book, what do you make of the larger argument that you hear from Trump, some Trump supporters, which is, Trump isn't any different from any other politician, he's just more honest about it, like the quid pro quos are more out there, the demand of loyalty? You know, other politicians feel the same thing, the Obamas, the Clintons, the Bidens. It's just that Trump is more, in their view, honest about it.

EISENSTADT: There's some truth to that, but I at one point talked to someone who's very, very high up with Trump. And they made the case that, look, Trump has sort of an old school approach to politics. It's just how he sees things. He's a creature of the New York City 1980s. And it's very transactional, and it's true, he is very open, he is very out there about how he does things.

TAPPER: The reporter is Alex Eisenstadt from Axios, the new book, Revenge, The Inside Story of Trump's Return to Power. Alex Esisenstadt, thanks so much, congratulations.

EISENSTADT: Thanks, Jake. Thanks for having me, I really appreciate it.

TAPPER: Coming up next, I'm going to talk with a woman who says one of the biggest names, if not the biggest name, in the race for New York City Mayor, former Governor Andrew Cuomo, is the absolute wrong choice for her city. Her rather strong claims against Cuomo, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:48:39]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: A new edge for Andrew Cuomo in the race for New York City mayor. Cuomo's campaign announced this week that it had raised $1.5 million in the first 13 days of his candidacy. Cuomo, who served as the governor of New York before resigning in disgrace over sexual harassment allegations which he denies, to say nothing of the nursing home scandal during COVID, is just one of a field of embattled candidates vying for the city's top job.

I want to bring in Lindsey Boylan. She worked as an aide to then Governor Cuomo, and she was the first woman of many to publicly accuse him of sexual harassment.

Lindsey, thanks so much for joining us.

So you wrote this about Cuomo's bid for mayor. Quote, New York City deserves better than Andrew Cuomo. As frustrated as city residents rightfully are about the behavior of its scandal plagued Mayor Eric Adams, it can indeed get worse, unquote.

You wrote that for "Vanity Fair". In Cuomo's campaign launch video, he said -- he'd made mistakes. He acknowledged he'd made mistakes. He said he'd learned from them.

What is your message to New Yorkers frustrated with Mayor Adams, and who are taking a second look at Cuomo?

LINDSEY BOYLAN, FORMER AIDE TO GOV. ANDREW CUOMO: Listen, I'm frustrated too. Andrew Cuomo is not the answer. He has spent the last several years, instead of being apologetic and contrite and taking on accountability, actually using any power he has to smear the women who he harassed and who he victimized.

[18:50:07]

And he's doing so in the court of law to the tune of when we account for the nursing home scandal and whatnot, $60 million in taxpayer money. He has not stopped harassing the women that came forward bravely. You know, not just myself, about a dozen women after me. I hope that everyone cares what happens to women and that sexual harassment matters.

But even if you don't, his abuse of women is really his abuse of power. He hasn't stopped abusing that power. He's using the taxpayer dime. Everything that he's doing now to seek retribution and silence us is on your money.

TAPPER: Yeah.

BOYLAN: This is the exact kind of mayor he will be.

TAPPER: So he is lining up endorsements from New York officials. And the Cuomo campaign announced that they've raised at least $1.5 million. Have you been surprised by how Cuomo has been received since his announcement, including leading in polls?

BOYLAN: I haven't been surprised at all. I mean, having 100 percent name recognition and I think, you know, somewhere near 30 percent favorability on the outset isn't very good for a former governor. You would think and expect that the former governor of the state of New York would do well in fundraising and would have considerable support in some -- some corners.

I also haven't been very surprised by the politicians who have chosen to align with him. These are people who are, in my view, and the view of many others, values free. They don't represent the districts that they've actually been elected to. They're not listening to the people in the communities.

And we're going to win because we have the people. And I would say campaigns across the city. Good candidates for mayor are all aligned in making sure this man is not elected mayor.

And I think that says something. Usually it's very hard to get candidates to agree on anything when they're running against each other, especially in the city of New York.

TAPPER: Yeah.

BOYLAN: Pretty much all aligned on saying that this man is unacceptable for mayor of New York City because of his abuse of power, because of all of the things he's done to harm us, particularly in New York City.

TAPPER: So you alluded to the fact that his defense in court is being paid for by taxpayer dollars. He successfully argued in court that this is because the allegations were made against him while he was governor, while he was a public official, and therefore the state should be required to pay for his defense. Under the New York state's public officers law 17.

Do you think voters are aware that they are paying for his defense, and do you think they care?

BOYLAN: I think they're becoming more aware, and I think they absolutely care. I think its one of the biggest things that will that will harm him. You know, this public officer law was put in place to enable leaders to do their work and not be fearful of injurious litigation and whatnot.

But what he has turned it into is an abuse of power. And keep in mind that none of these cases that he is currently in litigation for are at trial yet. So $60 million is just the tip of the iceberg, and it really off New Yorkers. It makes them very mad to know that such significant amount of money is going to a man who feels no remorse and is using every piece of power to really prevent the truth from coming out.

And I think the more -- the more people hear about it, the more negativity comes and you start to see that in some of the polls. People don't want to live their lives in politics. You and I know that as much as we may enjoy it. But when they're reminded of how many bad things this man has done and how they transcend any one issue, they're going to say no to him.

TAPPER: Well, as of now, I mean, the primary is not until June 24th, but as of now, a lot of polls have him in the lead. Are you preparing emotionally for him to win?

BOYLAN: Well, no, I'm preparing to fight him until he loses first. But I'll give you an example of two polls that have him ahead. In one case, it was early on before he actually ever entered a race. I think it was put out there by folks aligned with Scott Stringer, and it was really crafted in a way to make it appear that Scott Stringer was the only hope outside of Andrew Cuomo, and that that he would be the beacon of light.

And as you probably know, as you well know in your career, polls are created with an outcome in many cases. So that was one.

The second one has been, you know, tossed around and promoted by Tusk Strategies, which is firmly in support of Andrew Cuomo. And they're trying to make this a two-person race. It's not.

Another thing that we should bring up here is ranked choice voting. This makes this election very different. Don't forget our last mayoral election was our first with ranked choice voting. So in this -- in this case, what we are doing is saying no to Andrew Cuomo, no to Eric Adams. So don't rank either of these individuals and rank five people that you can get on board with, because that is how ranked choice voting works.

And frankly, as you may know, in the last election cycle, Eric Adams barely won by a few thousand votes vis-a-vis Kathryn Garcia. And it was in one of the later rounds of ranked choice voting counting.

[18:55:03]

So I think we have a good strategy. I'm not worried about the polls right now, and I'm not preparing for him winning because I think there's too much good work to do to make sure people know exactly what a bad, a bad man he is, and so he won't win this race.

TAPPER: Lindsey Boylan, thank you so much.

BOYLAN: Thank you. I appreciate it.

TAPPER: We invited Governor Cuomo to come on the show, but he declined the invitation, offering one of his attorneys instead. No thanks.

His spokesperson did send us a statement that leveled several unsubstantiated accusations against Lindsey Boylan that we could not independently verify. They maintain in this statement that she is not credible. I think we'll just leave that up to you.

We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: I have two books coming out in May, "Original Sin", about President Biden's decision to run for reelection and the cover up of his decline, which resulted in all this.

And in October, "Race Against Terror", about the hunt to prosecute an al Qaeda terrorist who killed Americans and was out to kill more. You can check them out in preorder if you go to JakeTapper.com.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.

Take it away, Erin.