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The Lead with Jake Tapper

U.S. Stocks Volatile, Trump Defiant On Tariffs; Transparency Lacking On Trump's Chainsaw Tactic; CEO Of Steel Manufacturing Thrilled By Tariffs; RFK Jr. Says Vaccine "Most Effective" Way To Prevent Measles; Father And Two Sons Killed By Amtrak Train; Trump: U.S. Has Begun Direct Talks With Iran Over Nuclear Program. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 07, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[17:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Another volatile day for the New York Stock Exchange. "The Lead" starts right now. A mixed finish on Wall Street after ups and downs jolted by Trump's tariffs. How will this wild ride end? Today, new recession warnings from JP Morgan CEO, Jamie Dimon. We'll check-in with folks on all sides of this debate including a steel factory owner from his Baltimore plant who calls these tariffs long overdue.

And, breaking news from the U.S. Supreme Court, the new ruling just hours ahead of a midnight deadline that forces a deported man from Maryland to stay locked up in an El Salvador in prison instead of being returned to The United States.

And a second unvaccinated child killed by measles in the United States. Is this outbreak something you should fear in your own neighborhood? A top vaccine expert whom RFK junior forced out of the FDA will be here to sound the alarm on what he thinks is going on.

Welcome to "The Lead" and I'm Jake Tapper. Our breaking news, President Trump speaking in the Oval Office just moments ago as a volatile global market was searching for any sign that his new tariffs could be negotiated or paused, a sign that never came.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Would you be open to a pause in tariffs to allow for negotiations?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, we're not looking at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: As the Trump administration takes its proverbial chainsaw to the global trading system, we are reminded that this approach does not seem dissimilar from the one that began back in January when the Trump administration took a chainsaw to federal government agencies to reduce their staffing. Critics pointed out then that their moves combined what they saw as three qualities. One was questionable planning. We saw this with the Elon Musk led

Department of Government Efficiency or DOGE, which began recommending massive job cuts before apparently even understanding what certain agencies did in many cases. This led to obvious mistakes, including the firing and then rehiring of, among others, disease detectives, employees of the veteran suicide hotline, and experts in nuclear weaponry.

A second quality of the chainsaw method, a refusal to be transparent. DOGE would claim they found fraud only to provide zero evidences of said fraud or they would post a dollar amount of money they claim they save only to quietly lower that number or delete it altogether from their website.

The third quality of the chainsaw method, an abdication of Article I powers by the Republican Congress, giving Trump a pass to try and freeze congressionally approved funding or dismiss congressionally mandated agencies. We've seen this similar pattern emerge in the administration's immigration policies. Questionable planning on deportations led to a Maryland father being mistakenly deported to a prison in El Salvador. A lack of transparency meant a lack of evidence to back up that deportation.

The Trump administration now admitting he was deported because of an administrative error, but they say it's too late to bring him back since he's now in El Salvador in custody. And the Supreme Court just granted the administration's request to pause the midnight deadline to bring the man back home. We keep seeing this time and time again, and its only April, when the media and judicial branch ask for actual evidence that someone is a criminal or has done something to merit deportation, and the Trump administration just simply refuses to provide it.

The Republican Congress just sits silently by as Trump's deportations and executive orders began targeting people who have lived legally in The United States. Despite the 14th Amendment and Congress's Article I powers to, quote, "establish a uniform rule of naturalization," Trump is challenging that as well.

Now, with regard to these earth shattering tariffs, critics see the same clear planning, same clear pattern. One, questionable planning. Not only do many economists believe Trump's use of tariffs is a questionable economic policy to begin with. Economist at a conservative think tank say that the numbers on Trump's giant tariff chart have a serious math error. One that led to tariff rates massively higher than they should have been in order to achieve the administration's goals. So as economists from the American Enterprise Institute.

[17:04:57]

Two, as always, a refusal to be transparent. We don't know what this actual end game is. Administration officials keep moving the goal posts and contradicting each other. Trump just yesterday said that tariffs would stay around until the United States trade deficit disappears. And despite the fact that Congress technically has the, quote, "power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises."

Republicans in Congress, say for seven GOP senators who are backing a bill to limit the president's tariff power, are just letting Trump do whatever he wants.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON, HOUSE SPEAKER: I think you got to give the president the latitude, the runway to do what it is he was elected to do, and that is get this economy going again and get our trade properly balanced with other countries. S, I think most of the American people understand the necessity of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Now to be clear here, you can support the policies, tariffs, deportations, shrinking the federal government, and still see these three patterns, questionable planning, lack of transparency, Republican Congress completely ceding all of their constitutional powers. You can see that as a problem because the Trump administration's chainsaw approach -- on chainsaw approach on these major issues has clear consequences.

This time, it has literally impact the entire world, including markets, your local businesses, your retirement accounts, the cost of living. Let's get right to CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich at the New York Stock Exchange. Vanessa, what does the mixed market close tell us? Not entirely awful news today.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Right. What a difference from this morning. It signals that we may be coming close to the bottom of the market, but traders tell me that we're not quite there yet. And it also really signals that there's potentially been enough movement in trade negotiations to give a little bit of confidence to investors. But this is very dramatic from what we saw this morning.

At around 10 a.m. this morning, there was a tweet that went out that signaled that the president may be open to pausing some of these tariffs for 90 days except on China. And when I was here on the floor in the room, there were cheers when that went out. But quickly, the White House said, no, no, no, that's fake news. That's their words, quote, unquote, "fake news," saying that that's actually not true.

And you saw the Dow climb about 900 points and then fall again. So you have at the end of the day, the Dow closing down about a quarter of a percent. You had the, excuse me, you had the Dow closing down 300 points, the S&P closing down a quarter of a percent, but you have the Nasdaq up about a tenth of a percent. But what we're looking at right now is a situation where there are encouraging signs, but also an escalation of the trade war happening.

You heard from the president as the market was closing, doubling down on this trade war, saying that he's going to lob an additional 50 percent tariff on China if they do not pull back on their 34 percent reciprocal tariff. But, also, we are hearing from the prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, that he's willing to cut the trade deficit. Japan says they're going to be meeting with U.S. trade representatives and the Treasury Secretary. And you're also hearing from the E.U. who says that they're open to negotiations.

But still, investors and especially big banks are putting out recession forecast. Goldman Sachs upped their recession to about 45 percent for this year from 35 percent just last week. So while a mixed close on the markets is sort of comforting compared to where we came from, Jake, Wall Street and everyday Americans are certainly still very much embroiled in this trade war, Jake.

TAPPER: Alright. Vanessa Yurkevich at the New York Stock Exchange. Thanks so much. With us now to discuss Lael Brainard, Vice President of the Brookings Institute, also a former National Economic Council director under President Biden and former Federal Reserve Vice Chair. Also with us, Greg Mankiw, a Harvard professor of economics who served as Chairman of the Council of Economic Advisors under President George W. Bush. Lael, let me start with you.

Goldman Sachs today raised its recession odds to 45 percent. That number is based on the assumption that Trump will not allow his tariffs to kick in. Goldman says if Trump doesn't blink, a recession is coming, the last recession, of course, during the 2020 COVID pandemic. Assuming this happens, how might this recession differ?

LAEL BRAINARD, VICE PRESIDENT BROOKINGS INSTITUTION: Well, look, this is a self-inflicted recession if that is indeed where we're headed. What is really remarkable here is that American consumers, the American economy is going to pay the price. The consequences of this path are already really visible. We're seeing Americans, with their 401K accounts, very severely damaged by the last few days.

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And it won't be long before they're going to stores or shopping online and seeing tariff surcharges could be 20 percent for a higher price on an iPhone or a washing machine, or if you want to build a home or buy a home, those building materials are going up by 20 percent or more. So this would be, a remarkable self-inflicted recession if we continue on this course.

Starting from a place where the economy was really quite strong and I think on the beginning of this year, businesses were very optimistic about the course of the economy.

TAPPER: Greg, a lot of Trump defenders are out there saying that the middle class and lower class will be fine in all of this eventually because they don't have their money tied up in the stock market. What do you say to that?

GREG MANKIW, FORMER CHAIRMAN, COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISORS UNDER PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: No, that's completely wrong. You're right, the lower classes don't have their money in the stock market. If there is a recession, they will surely see on higher unemployment. They will surely see higher prices, and therefore lower real wages. So now everybody's going to suffer. I mean, if President Trump carries through on this, this is economic malpractice on a grand scale, something we haven't seen in half a century. I don't know what the end game is going to be, but if he persists in this list (ph), the outcome is going to be very ugly.

TAPPER: Lael, Trump today posted, quote, "The United States has a chance to do something that should have been done decades ago. Don't be weak. Don't be stupid. Don't be a PANICAN, and he writes in parenthesis, (a new party based on weak and stupid people!). Be strong, courageous, and patient, and greatness will be the result." I have to say, I've heard a lot of names calling from the White House, and I've heard a lot of administration officials just extolling how brilliant President Trump is, but I haven't really heard any detailed explanation of how this is going to work. Do you think the PANICAN message is aimed at the billionaire CEOs, who have started to turn on tariffs like Jamie Dimon and Elon Musk?

BRAINARD: Look, I think that the -- again, it really is the American consumer, American working families that are going to pay the price if we do in fact see widespread tariffs on the level that they have suggested. I think that there are circumstances where targeted tariffs make a lot of sense. China has engaged in a lot of unfair trade practices. It makes a lot of sense to really single out China for certain goods, and put high tariffs in place until they're willing to play by the same rules as everybody else.

But I can't understand 50 percent tariffs on denim and diamonds from Lesotho, and a lot of the other tariffs in that chart just made no sense, and they are going to hurt American consumers and possibly throw the economy, the U.S. economy into recession.

TAPPER: And Greg, one of the things that Elon Musk did when he took over Twitter was, he took away the concept of a verified user, the idea of a journalist or a professor being verified so people knew that they had some sort of credibility, even if people disagreed with their political views or whatever. And so there's kind of just this chaos where you can buy a check mark or not buy a check mark and nobody really knows what's real and what's not.

And I only bring this up because this morning an unverified post on X said that Trump was considering a 90-day tariff pause. And that tweet from a Walter Bloomberg, I mean, I don't even know what that is, apparently caused markets to swing upward. It added trillions of dollars to the S&P 500 within minutes, but those gains were quickly wiped out after the White House called that fake news. I mean, have you ever seen anything like that?

MANKIW: No. I mean, the president's playing with fire and nobody really knows what he's really going to do. Is he really going to pursue what he said he's going to do last week, or is he going to back down? And that's a very consequential decision for both investors and consumers and workers. So it's not surprising that every little bit of news moves the market a lot, especially since the president's team is giving mixed messages. Some of them say these are permanent tariffs. Some of them say it's negotiating position.

So we don't really know exactly what his motivation is here. We just know that there's a lot of sort of, misinformation, a lot of misunderstanding. I mean, economists have been studying international economics for 250 years since Adam Smith, and they've reached kind of a consensus on this issue. And the consensus is exactly the opposite of where Donald Trump seems to be coming down, from which I infer, by the way, that being a real estate developer and a reality TV star is not the best training to be an economist.

TAPPER: Yeah. You can't just like declare bankruptcy and get out of it. Lael and Greg, thanks so much. Please come back soon. Appreciate it.

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This programming note, we have two big nights coming up this week on CNN. First, a town hall Wednesday with Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Anderson Cooper will moderate the event. That's Wednesday night at 9:00 eastern. Then Thursday, join me alongside CNN's Kaitlan Collins for a town hall with four lawmakers from battleground congressional districts, Republican Mike Lawler of New York and Ryan Mackenzie of Pennsylvania, Jahana Hayes of Connecticut, Derek Tran of California. That's this Thursday, April 10, only here on CNN.

Coming up next, a steel factory owner in Baltimore is going to join us. He calls the president's tariffs long overdue. Is the long term business plan worth the pain in the short term? He'll tell us what he thinks.

And the president's message just moments ago about Israel with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu next to him in the Oval Office. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Back with our "Money Lead." Despite recession warning, some applaud President Trump's tariffs.

[17:19:57]

The CEO of Marlin Steel in Baltimore, Maryland says he's thrilled with the tariffs. His plant makes wire baskets and sheet metal for industries ranging from aerospace to food processing. Here's what one factory worker of his told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF SCHWARTS, DEPATMENT LEAD, MARLIN STEEL: One of the products that we made was -- our competition was from Canada and they were using Chinese steel and it's become more profitable and it's exciting. So very optimistic about it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Joining us now is the CEO of Marlin Steel, Drew Greenblatt, who joins us from the floor of his company. Drew, thank you so much for joining us. So you say you're a big fan of the tariffs. Your company exports to dozens of countries including China. Chinese Leaders now say they're prepared for a full on trade war with The United States. If China stops buying Marlin Steel, how much of a hit will your business take or will the tariffs help you in other ways that make up for it?

DREW GREENBLATT, CEO, MARLIN STEEL: Tariffs are going to be very good for the American manufacturing worker. We're very excited about this new leveling of the playing field. Right now when we export, for example, this basket to Germany right here, it's a precision medical basket, a medical device basket. When we ship that to Germany, the German government taxes our clients $128.95 per basket.

If a German competitor ships it to America, it's $1.25 per basket. It is so unfair what's happening to the American worker. They can't compete when you have that kind of unlevel playing field. We're talking about an opportunity finally to create a lot of millions of American jobs, middle class jobs if we could get it fair. We're not looking for something over the German factory workers or the British factory workers, the Chinese factory workers. We just want to be fair.

If we're fair, the American technology, creativity, work ethic is going to just do extraordinary things. And we're going to create millions of American jobs with this new paradigm. It's wonderful news.

TAPPER: It would be great to have the American manufacturing base back in the United States. I wonder how you counter the arguments of people such as Vice President J.D. Vance a few years ago. He feels differently now. But a few years ago he was saying it's less about tariffs and more about automation and education when it comes to manufacturing jobs in the United States. What do you say to that?

GREENBLATT: Well, absolutely. You have to have automation and you have to have clever manufacturing techniques. You know, we have seven degreed engineers. We make everything in Baltimore, everything in Indiana, everything in Michigan. We import nothing. But we're using wonderful innovations, novel ideas, coming up with crazy great new products. And then what happens is over in China they totally cut and paste our innovations and put it on their websites.

This is what we're competing against. They're using slave labor to compete against us. They're debasing their currency. The stakes are so unfair for the American worker. Let's just try to have things fair and we're going to whap them. We're going to hire millions of people throughout our country. You got to remember, 50 percent of Americans don't own stock. Millions of Americans don't have $250 in any kind of war chest emergency fund. Why is that?

TAPPER: Yeah.

GREENBLATT: That's because they're working at jobs where they can't get paid well. In American manufacturing, our workers are getting paid $80,000 a year, $90,000 a year, $100,000 a year. American manufacturing jobs are phenomenal. This is going to be flourishing if we could have a fair parity with these trade inequities.

TAPPER: So among those who own stock are your employees because you offer your employees a 401K match. Have any of them said anything to you about their concerns about the direction of the stock market, particularly any who might be close to retirement?

GREENBLATT: We absolutely have had a couple people anxious about their stock market -- about the stock market. But again, you know, our goal is that we're going to sell millions more dollars so we have to hire many more people. If we do that, we're going to hire them at very good jobs, with very good pay, wonderful benefits with the 401K match. True, there's some companies that have been buying t-shirts from Vietnam and China, and they're going to have to pay a couple more bucks for a t-shirt, and then the American consumer is going to have to pay more for a t shirt. That's obviously not pleasant for those American consumers.

But I think there's going to be an overwhelming surge of hiring in America as things level out, as American factories ramp up, and people have to hire talent, buy machines. We've invested money in buying new machines because we're so enthusiastic, so optimistic about the future.

[17:24:59]

That's going to start happening throughout the nation, and people are going to be leaning into the future.

This is a very exciting time for the American manufacturing worker. We're going to be able to pull people from poverty into the middle class that used to not have an avenue. They had no shot at getting into the middle class. We're going to be able to offer them a shot.

TAPPER: Drew Greenblatt, thank you so much. We'll have you back. Good to hear from you. My next guest is a top vaccine doctor --

GREENBLATT: Thank you.

TAPPER: -- forced out at the FDA under RFK, Jr.'s leadership. We're going to get his take on the agency's response to that measles outbreak after the death of a second child in the United States from measles. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:02]

TAPPER: On our "Health Lead," tomorrow we expect new numbers on the measles epidemic and after the death of second young child linked to the outbreak. Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. went to the child's funeral yesterday in West Texas. On social media, RFK Jr. wrote, quote, the most effective way to prevent the spread of measles is the MMR vaccine. That's the measles, mumps, and rubella vaccine.

But before the U.S. Senate confirmed Kennedy to lead the Department of Health and Human Services Department in -- in a 52 to 48 vote, mostly along partisan lines, Kennedy had made several comments, at the very least skeptical, surely ignorant, and in many cases just false, about vaccines such as these.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: There's no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective.

You go into negative efficacy. So you are more -- if you got vaccinated, you're more likely to get sick. You're more likely to get severe illness. You're more likely to die than if you were unvaccinated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: False, false, false. And during a 2019 measles outbreak in American Samoa, RFK Jr., who visited the island and boosted the ant -- anti-vax contingencies there, sent a letter to the Samoan prime minister successing that a vaccine may have been responsible for causing the outbreak, which is not the case.

He wrote, quote, there's also the possibility that children who receive the live measles virus during Samoa's recent vaccination drive may have shed the virus and inadvertently infected vulnerable children. It's a regrettable possibility that these children are casualties of Merck's vaccine. The children were not casualties of Merck's vaccine.

Here now is CNN's medical correspondent Meg Tirrell. Meg, where does the outbreak in Texas and that area stand now as we hold on for more new numbers tomorrow?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, it's a large outbreak and it's growing really fast. Right now, the numbers stand at about 481 cases in Texas, which is really the epicenter of this outbreak, where 56 people have been hospitalized and now two school age children have died.

This outbreak has also spread to at least three other states neighboring New Mexico, up to Oklahoma and to Kansas as well. And you can see here how fast these cases are growing, especially in Texas. And this comes as Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., in that same social media message you cited just now, also suggested that the rates of growth have been flattening.

But you can see they're still growing really quickly. And epidemiologists and infectious diseases doctors say these are likely extreme undercounts of these cases, especially seeing two deaths in Texas and another suspected death in New Mexico. That suggests there could be thousands of cases that are undercounted out there right now, Jake.

Now, in terms of this death, this was a school age child, just as the first death in Texas was, who was unvaccinated and previously healthy, had no reported underlying conditions. She died from measles pulmonary failure. And we know that pneumonia can be a complication of severe measles, which is one of the reasons this virus can be so dangerous. But vaccination, of course, is very safe and effective at preventing measles. And 98 percent of the cases in Texas were among people who were unvaccinated or had an unknown vaccine status, Jake. So there is a lot more calls for more wholehearted endorsement of vaccination from the highest levels of public health in this country. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Meg Tirrell, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

For more, let's turn now to Dr. Peter Marks. He resigned last week from his position as the director of the Center for Biologics -- Biologics Evaluation and Research at the Food and Drug Administration. Dr. Marks, thank you so much for being here.

So yesterday, well, despite nearly 20 years of saying things to the contrary, I want to point out, Secretary Kennedy now says the MMR vaccine, measles, mumps, rubella vaccine is, quote, the most effective way to prevent measles.

He says that now. And it's -- it's weird because the reaction from so many in the news media is when Kennedy tells the truth about vaccines, it becomes news. What's your reaction?

DR. PETER MARKS, FORMER DIRECTOR, FDA CENTER FOR BIOLOGICS EVALUATION AND RESEARCH: So I don't think he actually had a full throated. He basically said it helps prevent the spread of measles and very you have to really follow his footsteps pretty carefully. I'm not going to go into too much about Secretary Kennedy, but I will say that one needs to look at his social media because after this, he undermined his full. It was not a full throated endorsement.

And afterwards, he said that budesonide and clarithromycin, two treatments that are not indicated for treatment of measles. It's used in rare occasion. You might use them to treat a child in an ICU setting with complications, but they do not treat measles. There is no treatment for measles virus. Once you get it, once you get the pneumonia or the -- the brain infection, the treatment there is supportive care. The way to prevent this and it's a really simple way. It's a simple way. You just get your child vaccinated.

[17:35:13]

It is among the safest, most well-tested vaccines. There are parts of the world that they would -- they would do anything to get this vaccine because if this were Asia or Africa, we would know that each year there were -- last year there were 120,000 deaths because they didn't have the vaccine. As soon as places in Asia or Africa get the vaccine, measles deaths go away.

Measles, and I -- I just want to help people understand how we can calculate why we know there are more cases than have been reported. Measles kills in the United States about one in a 1,000 of those children affected. Just think of it at one in a 1,000. That is very -- it's -- it means that 1,000 kids get measles, we're going to have one family that's going to not have --

TAPPER: Right. So we prevent them from getting infected to begin with the vaccine.

MARKS: Right, right, right.

TAPPER: So we have three deaths. We probably know that we're under counting by about fivefold. You know, it's always estimates. It could be -- it could be threefold. It could be sevenfold. But we probably have more measles than we know about. This is spreading. It's continuing to spread.

The state of Texas Health Department is now concerned that they may not be able to get it under control in Texas --

TAPPER: Yes.

MARKS: -- before the end of the year, which would be a problem.

TAPPER: So and -- and I mean, in that same social media post, Secretary Kennedy also said in Texas since March, quote, the growth rates for new cases and hospitalizations have flattened, unquote. Look, I don't know whether he says these false things because he's misinformed or because he's wantonly lying, but it's not true.

It's not true that the growth rates for new cases and hospitalizations have flattened. Meg Tirrell just walk us through the numbers.

MARKS: So we can just say that all you had to do is listen to the Texas State Department of Health, that they report on Tuesdays and Fridays. And between Tuesday and Friday of last week, the number of cases in Texas alone went up by 14 percent.

TAPPER: Yes. In a following post, Secretary Kennedy talked about meeting with the affected families and meeting to, quote, extraordinary healers that, quote, who have treated and healed some 300 missile stricken men and children using. And this is what you talked about, the aerosolized, budesonide and clarithromycin. But what -- what's your reaction to that?

MARKS: So, you know, if, you know, that -- that one of I believe that and this I'm not directing this at -- at the secretary, I'm directing this at many people who don't believe in vaccines. They seem to have mistaken ideas of causality, right.

Here's an example. Their five-year-old is in the kitchen with the cat. They go out of the kitchen for a moment. There's a cup of milk on the table. They come back. The milk is spilled over and they scream at the child.

Well, they then look at their ring camera and it turns out the cat jumped up and -- and -- and knocked over the milk. It's mistaken causality. Scientists, we specialize in looking at causality before we make these statements.

TAPPER: Right.

MARKS: And unfortunately, there can be kind of a lazy way of just assuming causality or that is not there. I think that's a lot of what goes on with some of the autism issues, et cetera.

TAPPER: Well, he -- he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to some. He's not a doctor. He's not a scientist. I -- I don't even understand how he has this position. Yes. Take a listen to what he said about the measles vaccine just a few weeks ago on "Fox."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENNEDY JR.: There are adverse events from the vaccine. It does cause deaths every year. It causes -- it causes all the illnesses that measles itself cause encephalitis and blindness, et cetera. And so people ought to be able to make that choice for themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARKS: This is beyond painful. That is absolutely untrue. And, you know, I -- I wish we had a stack of Bibles here so I could. This is -- this is an incredible disservice. And the fact he can't make up for that now because this is on the, you know, he can say today to save his job that something is one way.

TAPPER: Right.

MARKS: But this is -- the truth is the measles vaccine is among the safest vaccines. You give a child two doses of measles vaccine and they -- their chance of dying of measles is virtually nil. Even if that -- that 2 percent or 3 percent that might get the measles, they don't die of it.

TAPPER: Yes.

MARKS: So I just think that what needs to happen here is a very full throated. The surgeon general, you -- the -- the secretary, what we need to be saying here and we need our folks on the ground from CDC to be. They're currently essentially fettered from having the unimpeded way to say, look, guys you need to --

TAPPER: Get vaccinated.

MARKS: -- get vaccinated.

TAPPER: Yes.

MARKS: You know what I -- I think, Jake, the important thing with vaccination is we need to provide people with the information. Yes, measles vaccine rarely has side effects that would be considered serious. But for measles vaccine, those serious side effects do not include death, encephalitis or autism. They include something called a febrile seizure, where if a child's temperature gets too high, they have a single convulsion --

[17:40:14]

TAPPER: Yes.

MARKS: -- and it goes away and they're better afterwards. And by the way, if you take a child's temperature a week after they're getting the measles and you just keep their temperature down, they don't get that.

TAPPER: Dr. Peter Marks, we're going to have you back because unfortunately, I think this story is not going away anytime soon. I still can't believe that this person is in charge of the Department of Health and Human Services. Dr. Peter Marks, thank you so much.

Just in these alarming images from Paris, a recycling plant fire just miles from the Eiffel Tower. We're told the fire now is out. Thankfully, no one was hurt. It's one of many stories we're keeping tabs on. The Lead's back right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:45:10]

TAPPER: In our National Lead, the tragedy that has gripped a small community just outside Philadelphia. A 24-year-old man who threatened to take his own life. His father and his brother tried to save him. And tragically, all three were hit and killed by an Amtrak train. This happened Thursday night. CNN's Danny Freeman visited the town mourning a devastating loss.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Bristol Borough, just outside of Philadelphia, Monday, the flag at the local firehouse flew at half-staff. With a sign reading, our thoughts and prayers are with the Cramp family. All after a beloved father and his two sons were killed last week in a train accident.

TONY BUCCI, FIRE CHIEF, AMERICA HOSE, HOOK & LADDER CO. 2: It's too fresh and shocking at this point.

FREEMAN (voice-over): On Thursday evening, an Amtrak train was passing through the small Pennsylvania borough as it traveled south from Boston to Richmond, Virginia. But on the tracks were 56-year-old Christopher Cramp and his two sons, 31-year-old David and 24-year-old Thomas.

Local fire and county officials said Chris and David were trying to help Thomas through a mental health crisis. First responders tried to get them off the tracks, but all three were hit and killed by the oncoming train. Tony Bucci is the fire chief of America Hose, Hook and Ladder Company, where the father Chris had been a firefighter. The two knew each other for decades.

BUCCI: He's been involved in the community for years, the type of guy that would give you the shirt off his back, you know. You needed help, he called Chris, and now he was there.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Fire company president Paul McManamon said Thursday represented the best of Chris.

PAUL MCMANAMON, PRESIDENT, AMERICA HOSE, HOOK & LADDER CO. 2: Chris was doing what Chris does, and that's exactly it, going to help somebody save their life. We don't do that for firefighting, but he did it a little more for his son, and he -- he was worried about his son. That was -- that's the biggest thing.

FREEMAN (voice-over): The impact of this loss stunned many across Bucks County.

DIANE ELLIS-MARSEGLIA, BUCKS COUNTY COMMISSIONER: This can't happen. You know, this would be too shocking, too devastating.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Diane Ellis-Marseglia is a Bucks County commissioner who knew Chris. She said he worked with people struggling with homelessness and mental health challenges.

ELLIS-MARSEGLIA: He had some kind of natural talent with people who were in some of the worst days and times of their lives, and he could connect with them, and that is so rare to find. It's irreplaceable, really.

FREEMAN (voice-over): The commissioner said when she heard what happened, it made sense it was Chris who rushed to help someone.

ELLIS-MARSEGLIA: I imagine he was filled with that empathy that he has for everybody, but also that intense love that you have for a child.

FREEMAN (voice-over): Tonight, a community supporting a family in mourning.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN: Now, Jake, at this point Amtrak police is leading the official investigation, but as far as this community is concerned, it's just hard to overstate how much sadness that there is felt here right now because of this loss. The funeral for all three men is being held on Saturday. Jake?

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TAPPER: So sad. Danny Freeman, thank you so much. If you or someone you know is struggling with thoughts of suicide, you can text or call 988 anytime. You can speak with somebody anytime, day or night. That number is 988. There is love for you. There is help for you. We'll be right back.

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TAPPER: Our World Lead now. Palestinian authorities say Israeli troops shot and killed a Palestinian American teenager last night and wounded two others in the Israel-occupied West Bank. The State Department confirmed that death a short time ago and offered condolences to the family. The Israeli military shared a blurry video of the incident. Saying its soldiers were on a counter-terrorism operation when they opened fire on what the IDF called three terrorists who they say were endangering civilian drivers by throwing rocks onto a highway.

Meanwhile, President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu met at the White House this afternoon. I texted two White House officials. The Press Secretary and Communications Director to ask if Trump brought up the American teenager whom the IDF killed, they did not respond. CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv. Jeremy, what came up in this meeting between the two leaders?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, there was a lot to discuss between the two of them. Ostensibly the purpose of this was to talk about the new tariffs that Trump had slapped on Israel as well as pretty much every other country in the world. But really the focus turned to much more serious matters of national security.

And -- and the fate of the hostages, the war in Gaza. There was a lot to discuss between these men. The biggest headline, of course, was President Trump saying that he is going to be engaging in direct negotiations with Iran. That the U.S. and Iran will hold direct talks with a, quote, very big meeting this coming Saturday. But Nour News, which is affiliated with Iran's top security body now casting doubt on that.

Saying that this is a, quote, complex psychological operation. That President Trump is engaging in. Some questions about exactly whether there will be a meeting indeed on Saturday. Beyond that, the President talked about the issue of the remaining hostages. And he -- he kind of gave Prime Minister Netanyahu a bit of political cover there. Netanyahu has been under fire from the families of many of these hostages who believe he is prioritizing his own political survival. As well as defeating Hamas over getting these hostages out.

[17:55:07]

President Trump said that he believes that Netanyahu is, quote, working very hard on us to do that. He said that he hopes to see the war in Gaza end soon. But he really didn't bring any pressure to bear, certainly not public pressure to bear on the Israeli Prime Minister as it relates to ending the war or getting the hostages out. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Jeremy Diamond, thank you. We'll look for you in the next hour. I know you have another report for us.

Coming up, a major ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court. Why it keeps a deported man from Maryland locked up in El Salvador. Are there any legal avenues left for this man's family? The story coming up.

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TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, President Trump defiant after another chaotic day for U.S. stocks and a growing number of warnings about the potential for a recession. How much longer will this uncertainty last and how worried should you and your family be?

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