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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trade War Escalates As China Raises Tariffs On U.S. To 125 Percent; Sell-off Of U.S. Bonds Rattles The White House & Wall Street; Judge Rules Trump Admin "Failed To Comply" With Order For Info On What Is Being Done To Facilitate Return Of Mistakenly Deported Man; Judge Says Mahmoud Khalil Is "Removable" From The U.S.; Officials: No Preliminary Cause Yet For Tragic Crash; New Book On Consequences Of Our Shrinking Attention Spans. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 11, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dango (ph). Cool. I mean, he might need to do a little lifting --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Jake Tapper standing by for "The lead."

Jake, it's dope. You know? I -- you know what, I -- maybe we should ask him for a Jake Tapper Barbie doll.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: No, that's OK. You know, I had -- I had all these LeBron Jones -- LeBron James jokes I was going to make, but Phil Mattingly standing here and he started making fun of the Philadelphia 76ers in response. And so I'm just -- I feel very humbled --

HUNT: Well, you should just kick him off the set right now, Jake.

TAPPER: -- humbled and angry --

HUNT: Go, 76ers.

TAPPER: -- about it. But congratulations, Mr. James, on your Barbie achievement.

HUNT: Have a great show, Jake. We'll see you tomorrow.

TAPPER: Thanks, Kasie. We'll see you back in "The Arena" next week.

[17:00:40]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: American consumers are feeling much worse about the U.S. economy. Can't imagine why. The Lead starts right now.

In the next couple of hours, President Trump is taking off for Florida as his trade war takes a new hit from China. The unease this is causing for the American people as China, the world's second largest economy, mocks Trump and his economic escalations.

We have some breaking news in two major deportation hearings, a ruling for the former Columbia University student detained after anti-Israel protests. Plus a tense hearing from the man the Supreme Court said must be returned to the U.S. after the Trump administration mistakenly deported him to El Salvador.

And what investigators now are saying about that tragic Hudson River helicopter crash killing a military veteran pilot and a family on a sightseeing trip celebrating birthdays.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

How you feeling as we commence this trade war with China? Apparently for most of you, not so great. U.S. consumer sentiment has plunged 11 percentage points this month to the second lowest level on record going back to 1952. The Chinese look like they're having fun, though. Chinese leader Xi Jinping says his nation is, quote, "not afraid" upping retaliatory tariffs on U.S. imports to 125 percent just below the U.S. level of tariffs, which stands at 145 percent.

This afternoon, the Chinese embassy fired off a couple of defiant X posts. One saying, "Give the bully an inch, he will take a mile." Another one's a political cartoon showing Trump dressed as Uncle Sam hitting someone looks like an American citizen, I guess, with a bat with metal spikes saying, don't retaliate, you'll get rewarded. Cartoon Trump then offers a reward in the form of a lollipop, only to switch it out at the last second for the spiky back itself.

This is also on par with another simpler meme posted by the spokesperson for the Chinese Ministry of Foreign affairs. It shows a MAGA hat going from $50 to $77 because, you know, it's made in China and there are tariffs. Still in the face of this mocking from our Chinese friends, the White House insists that the Chinese government wants to make things work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So is he waiting for China to make the first move here?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'm not going to comment on communications that are happening or may not be happening, but the president has made it very clear he's open to a deal with China.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why is he optimistic that China is going to make a deal or wants to make a deal if they're not talking, where's that optimism come from?

LEAVITT: He's optimistic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Remember, in addition to this trade war with China, there's still the 10 percent across the board tariffs on essentially the whole rest of the world and they all have higher tariffs that are only on pause for 90 days. The white House today struggling to explain how they plan to complete dozens of complex trade deals within that time frame of three months. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEAVITT: I won't reveal or get ahead of our trade team as these negotiations are obviously ongoing, but I can tell you very good progress has been made. Jamieson Greer was on television this morning and I spoke to him and he confirmed that more than 15 offers are already on the table, which is remarkable in just a mere matter of days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: The U.S. markets ended the day a little higher last hour boosted by the Boston Federal Reserve president saying that the central bank would step in to support financial markets if there were signs of distress. But markets remain on edge, getting a much needed weekend break after having a collective meltdown throughout the entire week of tariff uncertainty. In fact, some investors on Wall Street are expressing fears about the White House itself. A report published by a financial research group hours before Trump announced the 90-day pause on non-China tariffs said, quote, "Their concern is that the White House is not acting rationally but rather on ideology. A few have quietly wondered if the president might be insane," unquote.

All right, let's bring in Phil Mattingly who is here with us in studio.

And Phil, consumer sentiment low, the lowest it's been other than one other time since they started measuring this. Economists say the past week of Trump tariff whiplash may very well tip us into a recession. Americans wondering how and when are they going to start being directly impacted by this all out trade war with China. Do we think -- how soon do you think we're going to start to actually see higher prices?

[17:05:03]

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What's fascinating if you dig into the consumer center numbers that came out today is it also includes inflation expectations and it's not just that people are wondering when and if prices are going to go up, they expect it. And expect it at a level that, according to the survey, is higher than at any point since 1980. Everyone thinks prices are getting higher. Now the question of when obviously, is the most important one in this moment, and it's complicated. If you are an online retailer that's based in China, there's some view right now that at least some of them are already raising prices. You may start to see that happen more quickly than others.

However, there has been a significant effort from U.S. retailers to front load their cargo over the course of the last couple of months in expectation of what's happening right now. Also, any ships that were on the water when the new tariffs were put into action, they actually have an exemption until May 27th. So, when you talk to economists, when you talk to business leaders about timing here, they say it could be a month or two. The expectation, though very clearly in every consumer survey we're seeing right now is it's coming and probably sooner rather than later.

TAPPER: Let's talk about how the trade war could impact people in China. Listen to what one person there told CNN's Marc Stewart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC STEWART, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you worry that these trade issues will hurt the lives of everyday people living in China?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): No, no, no. Those American goods that have been tariffed, we can always replace them with Chinese made goods.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is that -- is that accurate?

MATTINGLY: What's interesting when you look at the two economies and frankly, behind the scenes, this is what has given Trump administration officials confidence, probably some -- to some degree, too much public confidence that they can win in a trade war, that anybody ever wins in a trade war, is how the structure of the Chinese economy works. Will Chinese consumers get hit as hard and as fast as U.S. consumers? No, it's almost impossible, just due to the amount of exports that they send to the U.S.

TAPPER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: It's such a central part of kind of U.S. consumer fabric, Chinese goods and how they've kind of been interwoven inside the marketplace over the course of a decade or two. Not the case in China. In fact, China has a major consumer spending problem. Consumer sentiment, consumer spending is something the government has been trying to juice up over the course of the last several years. Certainly they've had a sluggish economy over the course of the last year or two, they are in a worse economic position than they were in the 2018, 2019 trade wars 1.0.

How this plays out going forward, the biggest issue is one third of China's GDP comes from trade. They are an export driven economy. U.S. officials think that they can really kind of use that as a vulnerability. We'll have to see.

TAPPER: All right, Phil Mattingly, thanks so much.

CNN Business Editor-at-Large Richard Quest is here to help us make sense of all the market madness. Richard has been a week, I'm -- you insert gif of person collapsing as he walks into the room. How are the markets feeling going into this well-deserved restful weekend?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN BUSINESS EDITOR-AT-LARGE: Two things we saw today. The rally we saw today partly because obviously it looks like it's all settled down just for the second. But also part of the Chinese statement also said that they weren't going to do higher tariffs. They essentially have called the president's bluff. They said, all right, we're done, let's face it. At these -- as Phil was saying, at these levels, nobody's going to be doing any business between us. So you do what you like, Mr. President. We're not going to raise our tariffs any higher than this. And that could be taken both as a throwing of the gauntlet, but also potentially, Jake, they could be telegraphing it's time now to calm down.

We've said we're not going higher. You do something similar and we can start to find the ground by which we can talk. But the Chinese will not give further ground. They're not going to give in. And anybody who thinks they are is just deluding themselves and fooling everybody else.

TAPPER: And just a reminder, I mean, the Chinese have a lower quality of life than we do in the United States and they do not have representative government. And those two things give them an immediate advantage.

QUEST: And they're shopping themselves around the world. Xi has quickly put together a trip to Malaysia and other ASEAN countries, a trip that would have taken months to put together. Now it's been put together in a couple of weeks. The prime minister of Spain is in China. The E.U. is talking. Would they prefer to be doing business, more business with the United States and all these other countries?

Yes. But if the U.S. is going to kick you in the groin, then you're going to circumnavigate it and you're going to try and do your deals elsewhere. And that's what's happening now.

TAPPER: Right. All right, Richard Quest, thanks so much.

Let's go to CNN Anchor and chief White House Correspondent Kaitlan Collins.

Kaitlan, good to see. The White House today is projecting confidence that China is going to pick up the phone and that call to make a deal, even though we have not seen any signs pointing to that yet. Does the White House know something we don't, Jake?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jake, they're really just arguing that it's the president's deal making ability that they say that he has here to get leaders to the table. Obviously, he's fielding a lot of calls from a lot of world leaders. That has to do with those 90-day reciprocal tariffs that have been paused, essentially for now, as they're trying to make an agreement so they don't actually go into effect in 90 days.

[17:10:02]

But when it comes to China, it's a different story because those tariffs are in effect to 145 percent. You saw, as you mentioned, China responding today with 125 percent retaliatory tariffs of their own. And so essentially the White House and China seem to be waiting for the other side to blink first here. And what's clear from our reporting is that doesn't appear that it's going to happen anytime soon, which is in part why you're seeing the markets respond the way that they are. And so the way that the White House is viewing this is that they do not want to make the first move here, that the president has instructed them he believes China should have to make the first move here when it comes to the terms of the two of them having a direct conversation about this and what the next step forward here is going to look like.

So that's a real question given as you laid out what the Chinese ministry and embassy has been saying, kind of scoffing at the tariffs that the president has raised and put in place on China. And so it's a question of the pain threshold and what that looks like. But obviously it comes as the White House is fielding a lot of concerned calls about what this looks like and also how obviously China is on the hot seat in this moment because these tariffs are in place. But these are allies and adversaries alike that are all facing this situation and having these conversations with the White House and essentially trying to strike an agreement with the president.

TAPPER: Kaitlan, when President Trump put this 90-day pause on the non-China tariffs this week, he said that he was affected by the sell- off in the bond market, that people were a little queasy and yippee in the bond market. Today the White House was asked about an unconfirmed theory that the continued sell-off is a result of China dumping bonds to hurt the United States. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Does the White House have evidence that this is in fact a result of Chinese dumping? And if so, is there a message on that?

LEAVITT: Not to my knowledge, but I would check in with the Treasury Department on that. I can tell you, I know our Secretary of Treasury, Scott Bessent, is keeping a very close eye on the bond market.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So the bond market serves as a hugely important indicator of economic health. Behind the scenes, is the White House nervous about this at all?

COLLINS: Well, certainly the Treasury secretary, Scott Bessent, has been -- he has been raising this privately in conversations before that 90-day pause went into effect. And the White House is hearing from Wall street on this. You know, they may not be hearing from China, but in terms of what they're hear from business executives here, Larry Fink of BlackRock was just saying today that he has not only been talking to lawmakers, he's been talking to Trump administration officials about the effects that these tariffs he believes are going to have on the U.S. economy. He was talking about inflation going up. He was talking about a short term recession here in the United States. So I mean, even if they're not watching it as closely, they're hearing from executives who certainly are watching it incredibly closely and hoping that the president can change his mind here.

I mean, that's an open question obviously, in terms of what that looks like. But they are hearing from people who are watching that bond market incredibly closely.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

Kaitlan is going to have much more tonight on her show "The Source," tonight at 9:00 Eastern only here on CNN.

We have some breaking news in these two deportation cases that we've been keeping an eye on. Moments ago, a ruling in the case of Mahmoud Khalil, that's the former Columbia University student detained after anti-Israel protests on campus, a judge on whether he can be removed from the United States. But first, the Trump administration is appearing right now to defy court orders in the case of that man mistakenly deported to El Salvador. The judge's order in that case is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:17:39]

TAPPER: In our law and justice lead, a tense hearing just now as the Trump administration appears to be trying to defy court orders. This case I'm talking about centers around Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia, a man the U.S. government admits it mistakenly deported to El Salvador last month. But they don't apparently care. Here's a sampling of some of the defiance we're seeing from the White House after last night's U.S. Supreme Court decision requiring that the Trump administration attempt to, quote, "facilitate Abrego Garcia's return" because, after all, he is in El Salvador's custody. White House Deputy Chief of Staff for Policy Stephen Miller tweeted, quote, "The U.S. Supreme Court rejected the lower court and made clear that a district court judge cannot exercise Article 2 Foreign Affairs powers.

The illegal alien terrorist is in custody and -- is in the custody control of a sovereign foreign nation."

We should note that he has not been adjudicated to be a terrorist in any manner. CNN's Paula Alvarez -- Priscilla Alvarez and Paula Reid. Sorry, late night with the town hall.

Priscilla Alvarez and Paula Reid are both tracking this case.

Paula, we'll get to Stephen Miller's and the Trump administration's overall argument in a second. But we heard even more pushback in an actual court, not just on Twitter, but in court. Tell us what happened.

PAULA REID, CNN SENIOR LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, it was drama, a series of tense exchanges between this judge and lawyers for the Justice Department who would not say where Mr. Garcia is. They would not provide any details about steps they have taken to facilitate his return. This was extremely frustrating to the judge as she assigned them some homework here. Now they have to do daily status reports updating the court on the steps they are taking to facilitate his return. Now, his lawyer spoke after court.

Let's take a listen to what he said. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SIMON SANDOVAL-MOSHENBERG, ATTORNEY FOR KILMAR ABREGO GARCIA: I don't think there's anyone in this country who believes the government when they say, well, we don't -- you know, we don't know how to do this. We can't -- we can't figure out how to get someone out of Salvadoran jail. They got Kristi Noem out of a Salvadoran jail, right? I mean, they can get Kilmer Abrego Garcia out of that same jail.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

REID: We'll see. They'll all be back in court on Tuesday. The judge has ordered an additional hearing.

TAPPER: But just as a note, I mean, Stephen Miller called him an illegal alien terrorist. Is there any evidence that this person has committed any act of -- even violence, much less terrorism?

REID: No. The administration has conceded that this was a mistake.

[17:20:00]

They're just not looking to bring him back. And the Supreme Court has given this incredibly ambiguous opinion, which is why Stephen Miller can go on Twitter and say something like that.

TAPPER: Priscilla, if they're looking for a ride for him, I know of somebody flying from El Salvador to Washington, D.C. The President of El Salvador coming to the White House Monday. I assume this is going to come up?

PRISCILLA ALVARES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, talk about timing. This was a previously scheduled meeting of the Salvadoran president, a Trump friendly president coming to the White House on Monday. Well, they're supposed to talk about, and the White House has said they're going to talk about CECOT, that is that notorious mega prison in the Americas and where in El Salvador specifically, but also where Abrego Garcia is being held.

Now, the White House press secretary was asked about this directly today. Here's what she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The president of El Salvador is coming to the White House on Monday. Does President Trump want him to bring Kilmar Abrego Garcia with him?

LEAVITT: The Supreme Court made their ruling last night very clear that it's the administration's responsibility to facilitate the return, not to effectuate the return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALVAREZ: You'll hear that a lot about facilitating the return, not effectuating it, which means it could be an open discussion in the Oval Office when the two of them meet. Now, this agreement, this relationship between the two countries has been a point of contention in the courtroom because again, the federal judge in Maryland has said in if the United States is paying El Salvador to hold migrants that we have sent there, including Abreu Garcia, why couldn't the U.S. ask for his return? And other judges that have weighed including the D.C. Circuit, have called this a lack of desire. So, there's some wiggle room here with what the Supreme Court said and the deference to foreign affairs. And this is a prime example of domestic policy and foreign policy going head to head. And what we'll see on Monday in that overall between the two presidents.

TAPPER: And Paula, to go back to Stephen Miller's tweet, he argues that the gentleman is in the custody and control of a sovereign foreign nation. So, is the decision really truly entirely up to El Salvador now? He is in Salvadoran custody.

REID: They'll be part of it. But were live with you yesterday, Jake, when we were trying to figure out what the Supreme Court actually said. And it's clear that both sides think that they won because the Supreme Court, instead of affirming the lower court saying yes, he has to be returned or no, he doesn't, they took this squishy middle road, saying that the administration has to facilitate his return. The Justice Department has said they believe they won the case. Stephen Miller, who basically runs the Justice Department, says he believes they won the case.

But today the judge in court said she was affirmed by the Supreme Court. It's not clear that's true. His lawyer says they won. So this ambiguity, it's not a surprise that the Justice Department is going to try to exploit this. The Supreme Court gave them no deadline to facilitate this return.

And I think you're going to see them continue to delay and sort of punt on these questions that the judge is pressing them for answers on.

TAPPER: And they're working really closely, the Trump administration and the president of El Salvador. I mean, they're doing memes together. They -- they're sharing each other's tweets and such.

ALVAREZ: I mean, remember that when these flights went to El Salvador last month, there was sort of a shrug emoji by the Salvadoran president when the court was asking for the return or the turnaround of those flights. But to remind viewers, we are in this position because the administration has said that they made a mistake by sending the Salvadoran national there because in 2019, an immigration judge in the United States said he could not be returned to his native country for fear of persecution. He could be removed anywhere else, but he could not be sent to El Salvador. That is exactly what happened. And so the urgency for his attorneys is he is now in the country where he pled before an immigration judge that he would face danger and that it is now there is a risk to his life and safety.

So, we are in this position, again, because of a mistake the administration said that they have admitted that they made. And again, to a person who couldn't be returned to his native country because of fear of persecution.

TAPPER: All right.

REID: With no help from the Supreme Court.

TAPPER: Intentionally so.

REID: Yes, totally.

TAPPER: They knew what they were doing.

All right, Paula Reid, Priscilla Alvarez, thanks to both you.

Next, in Louisiana, ruling in another major deportation case that we're following for Mahmoud Khalil, a judge just ruled that the former Columbia University student can be deported after his anti-Israel protests last year. How soon can he be removed? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:28:42]

TAPPER: And we're back with breaking news in our law and justice lead. A Louisiana judge has ruled that Columbia graduate student Mahmoud Khalil can be removed from the United States. Khalil, who is not an American citizen, was a member of the anti-Israel group at Columbia University. Columbia University Apartheid Divest, which is a group that publicly has called for and supported armed resistance by the terrorist group Hamas. Khalil is also married to an American citizen and she is pregnant.

The Trump administration accuses Khalil of being a Hamas supporter. They have yet to offer the public any specific details about what Khalil specifically did that warrants his expulsion from the United States. CNN's Gloria Pazmino is following this case.

Gloria, what more came out of today's ruling?

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: So it was a significant decision, Jake, and we were really going in not being sure whether or not she was going to release him or say that he is deportable. And as you said, the judge in Louisiana has decided today that Khalil is in fact removable from the United States based on what we are referring to and his lawyers are referring to as the Rubio Determination. The government submitted evidence to the immigration judge in Louisiana in the form of a two page memo written by Secretary of State Marco Rubio where he outlines the reasons why Khalil is deportable. The reasons include his opinions, his activities and his thoughts. Now remember, much of this has been centered on the fact that this is about free speech, even though the Trump administration has said that Khalil is engaged in activities that support Hamas.

[17:30:20]

But none of that evidence has been presented to the government so far. Despite that, the judge today ruled that he is, in fact, deportable because of that memo that the Secretary of State authored. Now, it's important to remember that there are two parallel cases unfolding here, the one in New Jersey and the one in Louisiana.

Today, we have a determination in Louisiana. We do not expect that he is going to be deported imminently. His lawyers will appeal the decision. And here's the reaction that we're getting so far from his wife. She issued a statement just a short while ago saying, quote, my husband is a political prisoner who is being deprived of his rights because he believes Palestinians deserve equal dignity and freedom. There's nothing the government can say about my husband that can silence his -- silence his truth. The ruling is an indictment of our country's immigration system and does not reflect truth, justice, or the will of the American people. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Gloria Pazmino, thanks so much. Let's bring in attorney Skye Perryman. She's also president and CEO of Democracy Forward. That's a progressive legal organization that has sued the Trump administration over its use of the Alien Enemies Act to engage in deportations. Skye, what's your reaction to the Louisiana judge ruling that Khalil can be removed from the U.S.?

SKYE PERRYMAN, PRESIDENT AND CEO, DEMOCRACY FORWARD: Well, I think this ruling, of course, is far from the end of the story. There is another case pending where the court will have to grapple with the real constitutional issues here. This is an administration that is weaponizing the U.S. government against people in this country that are exercising their First Amendment rights. And the, you know, Khalil's attorneys are raising that issue in the other case that is pending.

And so I think this is really far from the end of the story. But what's important for all of us to focus on is the steps that this administration is taking to silence people, to threaten people. And they really can't even produce much evidence. I mean, this is a two- page, you know, two-page memorandum from the secretary of state. So I think you'll see much more in this case as it proceeds in the other court on the constitutional claims.

TAPPER: So Secretary Rubio's basic argument here is that if you're here on a student visa, you -- that's not -- you don't have a right to be here in the United States. And that these individuals, a lot of these students, have said things that are pro-terrorism, pro-Hamas, anti-Semitic, et cetera. I'm looking at an article in "The New York Times" from last October, in which the group that he was a member of, Columbia University Apartheid Divest, expressed support for armed resistance by Hamas.

Now, I don't know that he specifically was part of that expression, but he is part of the leadership of that group. Is that not enough under Secretary Rubio's definition?

PERRYMAN: Well, you know, Secretary Rubio is making a range of blanket claims, but the -- the point here is that the -- the First Amendment in this country protects people that are here in their political expression. And that's what this other court will hear. Here, I think Khalil has said that he has not engaged in violence. He doesn't support violence. I believe that he's made a range and his lawyers have made a range of, you know, really delved into the evidence about his own particular views.

But the real thing that we all need to remember here, getting out of the made-for-T.V. moments that this administration is trying to create around immigration and deportation in this country, is that our First Amendment freedoms for all of us, including American citizens we're seeing, is something that the administration is not taking seriously and is not protecting. And I think that's what you'll start seeing in the -- the companion case.

TAPPER: There obviously are questionable deportation cases under the Trump administration. We cover them all the time. They are also getting rid of people in this country illegally who have committed terri -- terrible crimes. Earlier this month in Northern Virginia, ICE arrested an undocumented Guatemalan man who is a convicted sex offender. Do you see any issues with deporting people in this country illegally who have committed such heinous crimes?

PERRYMAN: You know, no one, I don't think, has issues with the -- the lawful immigration enforcement in this country. And this president and presidents before him have authority under the law to take actions that are necessary to remove people from the country who are not here lawfully, who are not on a path towards being here lawfully, and who have committed violent acts.

That is not, though, what we're seeing by and large by this administration. What we have seen is this administration remove people from the country with no process at all. No process at all. A move that even nine justices on the Supreme Court is saying is unlawful. And really going to links to end run our immigration process in this country in order to engage in removal efforts that really are not respecting our constitution, our laws, or the rights of people.

[17:35:22]

And so that's really what I think we all need to be focused on in this moment. And of course, there are a number of lawful immigration operations that are taking place. But that's not what this administration has been intent on doing. They're really skirting the process.

TAPPER: Some of these migrant arrests have been captured on video. I want to show one case where a woman captures a moment when ICE agents arrested her mother. Her mother is accused of having ties to the MS-13 gang. Let's take a look at that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- if it's against, no. Mommy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language). UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys cannot take her just because you guys want to.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mommy, they can't do this. Mommy, no. Mommy, no. Mommy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you expect this to kind of be the new normal during the second Trump term?

PERRYMAN: Well this is what the administration is intent on doing. They want to scare and intimidate people. And again they're not showing a respect for our laws or the -- or the rule of law in this country. If the administration was confident that people had committed crimes that there were ways to deport them from the country they would be going through the lawful process. But that's not what we've seen in a number of cases.

You have the administration today in federal court in Maryland not even answering what the judges are asking them to do. And so this is what the administration wants to be the new normal. But I can assure you that there are lawyers and people across the country that are going to go to court every single day to ensure that people's rights are protected that our Constitution is upheld and that this does not become a new normal.

TAPPER: Sky Perryman thanks so much. Appreciate your time today.

We're learning tragic new details about the victims killed in that Hudson River helicopter crash. The family was celebrating two birthdays. The pilot was a military veteran. What investigators are telling us about how this tragedy happened, that's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:42:46]

TAPPER: Another deadly plane crash tops our national lead, this one in Boca Raton, Florida. Three people dead after a small plane crashed and burst into flames on a busy road just this morning. Officials say a driver was also injured after he drove into a tree due to the falling debris. Bystanders say the twin engine Cessna made multiple loops around the airport before it crashed.

Relatedly, also in our National Lead, new details today from the investigation into the deadly helicopter crash into New York's Hudson River yesterday. That crash tragically killed an entire family of Spanish tourists and the pilot, who was a former Navy SEAL, according to his social media.

Right now, federal investigators and dive teams are pulling debris out of the river as they try to piece together how a helicopter suddenly just dropped from the sky. CNN's Brynn Gingras has the details. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We do not have a preliminary cause that takes time.

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Officials piecing together the helicopter wreckage, working toward what may have caused this sudden crash. The aircraft carrying a family and pilot, all six people on board, killed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: River traffic, be advised. You do have an aircraft down Holland Tunnel. Please keep your eyes open for anybody in the water.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Suddenly, we hear this huge explosion and we look up from our screen and the helicopter actually kind of just exploded.

GINGRAS (voice-over): The chopper on a short, scenic trip along the New York City skyline. Forty-nine-year old Agustin Escobar, a Siemens executive from Spain, was here on a business trip, according to officials. His wife and three children traveling to join him. They went up in the helicopter as part of her 40th birthday celebration. One of their children would have turned nine today.

MAYOR STEVE FULOP, JERSEY CITY, NEW JERSEY: The husband was telling people in the office how excited they were to do this helicopter tour. The family flew out to extend a business trip into a family vacation. So, I mean, the more you learn about it, the -- the more sad and tragic the story is.

GINGRAS (voice-over): The pilot, a 36-year-old veteran named Sean Johnson, started working for the helicopter company a month ago, according to his social media. Recent videos show him in the cockpit of the chopper flying above New York City. The Bell 206 pulled out of the water and dive teams continue searching for missing debris, including the main rotor and tail, according to the NTSB.

FULOP: We're using sonar because it is very murky and muddy, that part of the Hudson. And while it's not deep, visibility isn't great. And the goal is to retrieve as much of the helicopter as possible to reassemble what you can and understand how and why that happens.

GINGRAS (voice-over): The aircraft is operated by a tour company called New York Helicopter, Inc. NTSB reports site two prior safety incidents involving the company in 2013 and 2015 neither resulted in fatalities. The company's CEO told "The Telegraph" on Thursday his pilot radioed that he'd be returning to base in three minutes, but never came back. I'm a father, a grandfather, and my wife hasn't stopped crying since this afternoon, he told CNN.

Officials will also be looking at maintenance records if any work was done on the aircraft and confirm if it was compliant with federal standards.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[17:45:03]

GINGRAS (on camera): The NTSB has 17 people here on site working on this investigation. And of course, a lot of people, many people have seen that horrific video that's circulating on social media. The NTSB is asking the public to send in that video, send in any pictures that could possibly help them piece together what exactly happened here. Jake?

TAPPER: Brynn Gingras in New York for us. Horrible story. Thanks so much.

A live look at the White House, where a new portrait of President Trump was unveiled today in the Grand Foyer. Let's just say it's different. We'll show it to you coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:14]

TAPPER: Hey out there. Do you see me? I know you're on your phone. You're scrolling because this is what I do when I watch a movie or T.V. I'm just on my phone the whole time. But I would like your attention because it's time for our Pop Culture Lead. You've probably been texting or scrolling all day. Nearly everybody these days is a little obsessed with the information, the nonstop barrage on their phones.

But I need you to look up and lock in because my next guest is going to help you with that very issue, his name is Chris Hayes. He joins us now. You might know him from MSNBC. He's the author of a brand new, critically acclaimed book called "The Sirens' Call: How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource."

Chris, congratulations on the book and the sales and the reviews. You break down the way attention plays a vital role in the human experience, not just in our brains, but in the world. You write, for instance, attention is the foundation for nearly all we do, from the relationships we build to the way we act as workers, consumers and citizens, unquote. When you were researching this, what surprised you the most about how people have talked about commanding attention before cell phones and technology?

CHRIS HAYES, AUTHOR, "THE SIRENS' CALL": I think one of the things that was in some ways heartening was finding that going all the way back hundreds of years and then thousands of years, that people have been wrestling with this question of where do we put our minds, right? How comfortable are we with inhabiting our own minds and where do we put its -- its attention?

And as far back as, you know, the -- the Stoics and the Buddha, there's been this wrestling with the fact that where you put your mind kind of constitutes what your life is ultimately. From moment to moment, where you're putting your attention is kind of what your life adds up to. And I think the alienating experience of being alive right now is that that thing that's so essential to us as humans is also the thing that's constantly being extracted and pulled away from us in this way that we don't feel we any longer have ownership of.

TAPPER: You and I are both in the business of providing content. We do it in news, but with books and our shows, you also have a podcast. And I'm constantly aware of the fact that I am not only competing with "MSNBC" or "Fox" or whatever. I'm competing with the Internet. I'm competing with people's phones. I'm competing with social media, streaming service. What does it do to us, not you and me, but Americans or humans to not only be up against so much to get attention, but to have our own attention divided like that?

HAYES: Yes, it's a really good question. I mean, you and I have been doing this for very similar periods of time in terms of hosting shows. And even in that course of that time, you know, I remember when I started my show, like Netflix didn't have any original programming yet. Now, at every moment, you're competing with all content ever created essentially in human history. Like you -- you're putting something on. Someone could go like watch a 2006 sitcom if they want.

And I think what that does is if you think of the most competitive attentional marketplaces like Times Square or a casino floor or the checkout counter at a supermarket, they tend to drive towards this kind of lowest common denominator of what I call compelled or involuntary attention, right? Like the -- the sort of siren screaming or the flashing lights of a Times Square billboard or the kind of like salacious headlines.

And I think there's a real issue we all face, particularly for those of us are doing news and are trying to do something else other than just get people's attention, that the attentional market incentives push towards that kind of casino universe that everyone is now experiencing almost ubiquitously.

TAPPER: Yes. And -- and it's -- I don't think it's a coincidence and you don't either that in this era, here comes President Trump, whose politics you obviously don't like, but you acknowledge he is transfixing. That's your word in some ways. He's certainly someone who commands attention more so than even a typical famous person or politician. Do you see any Democrats out there or even any Republicans who have that same ability to just get the cameras on him?

HAYES: I do think Trump is pretty sui generis in this respect, and -- and he just has a kind of generational, deep, almost sort of like brainstem, feral instinct for attention that I -- it's very hard to replicate. In fact, I think you've seen other politicians when they try to do it haven't had the same success, whether that's Kari Lake or it's Ron DeSantis, particularly in sort of the -- sort of in the kind of Republican MAGA vein.

I think there are politicians, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and the Democratic Party, who are quite good at getting attention in their own way. What I do think Trump understands almost better than anyone in politics is the sheer value of attention and attentional dominance and collecting it at all times. And it does give you a kind of power.

[17:55:05] And his big insight that I think is really different than most politicians is he's willing to take negative attention if it's attention.

TAPPER: Yes.

HAYES: And most politicians don't really like that trade. Most of them would -- would prefer that you pay them no attention if you're going to pay them negative attention. Trump, it just added all up on the ledger.

TAPPER: Fascinating. Well, the book, I really recommend it to anybody out there. It's called "The Sirens' Call." The -- it's out now. Chris Hayes is the author. Thanks so much for -- for joining us. Good to see you, sir.

HAYES: Had a great time, Jake. Thanks a lot.

TAPPER: Coming up next, a story that affects each and every one of us, the economy. And many of you worried about your money. What the White House said when CNN asked about the big drop in consumer confidence. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:59:55]

TAPPER: Welcome to the Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, it has been a very tumultuous week for the U.S. economy and we're at the end of it, thankfully. Even though the markets are currently closed, the issues are far from solved.