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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Police Say, Two Killed in Mass Shooting at Florida State University; DHS Threatens to Revoke Harvard's Ability to Host International Students; New Democratic Candidate Enters High Profile Michigan Senate Race; Clooney Denies Obama Involvement In Biden Op-Ed. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 17, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

And this hour, we're following the tragic breaking news out of Tallahassee, Florida, where at least two people were killed and five others wounded in a mass shooting on the campus of Florida State University. What we're learning about the suspect and the investigation into a motive.

Plus, a top researcher from the National Institutes of Health is, quote/unquote, retiring early, citing censorship under HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. In minutes, that researcher's going to join us live in studio to explain what he says is happening behind the scenes in RFKs Health World.

And more than 1,000 international students and graduates have had their visas revoked in the last few weeks as part of the Trump administration's immigration crackdown. Some of them are suing the White House and they were in court today. Their lawyer joins us this hour.

The Lead Tonight, families grieving tonight after the son of a female sheriff's deputy killed two people at Florida State University and wounded others, according to the county sheriff, who says that the mother's gun was recovered at the scene. We heard in the last hour from an FSU student about the moment he found out what was happening on his campus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAYDEN D'ONOTRIO, FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY STUDENT: That is one of the most gutting feelings possible to not know if your friends are okay on this campus and have to wonder if they're going to make it through that moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's Nick Valencia just arrived at Tallahassee, where Florida State University is located. Nick?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A heartbreaking tragedy occurred here earlier today in Tallahassee, Jake, at the campus of Florida State University with so many having their safety and security shattered by what happened.

And here is what we know happened. At least two people are dead, six people are injured, and a shooter is in custody. The alleged shooter is in custody and that alleged shooter, a 20-year-old who's been identified as the son of a Leon County sheriff's deputy, who also is a school resource officer, somebody whose job it is tasked to keep schools safe, their son allegedly carrying out this incident here today earlier.

Now, there were witnesses here. We want to bring in one of them. That's Father Luke Farabaugh. He was here at the Catholic Church, which is about 150 yards away from this incident right behind me at the Student Union. You saw two bodies. You heard gunshots. How are you? And tell us what you saw.

REV. LUKE FARABAUGH, HELPED SHELTER STUDENTS: I was on my way. We actually had a staff birthday party of all things. And we were going there and I heard these pops and I just had a bad feeling. So, I went to our front door and looked at our campus and saw people running and --

VALENCIA: They're running right across the street here.

FARABAUGH: -- panicking. And so I told our staff to get away from the windows, and as they did that, I went back to the church. I continued to hear gunfire. And then as we came to the church, people were pouring in, very afraid, like a fear that I had never seen before. And we let people in.

VALENCIA: And these gunshots are continuing to go off as you're letting people in.

FARABAUGH: Yes, I'm attending in the church, attending to people, and then as I come out, the gunshots are continuing. So, it was -- at that point, I was disturbed.

VALENCIA: Were they rapid succession? That's what we've heard from other witnesses.

FARABAUGH: They were. They were in a row.

VALENCIA: And about how many did you count?

FARABAUGH: I probably heard about 15 over the course of that few minutes.

VALENCIA: And so you're describing a scene of just utter chaos, hundreds of people flooding into your church. At any point, are you concerned that the gunman, the alleged gunman is coming towards you?

FARABAUGH: We were. We monitored who would come into the church. We only let one door open and monitor two, I was more concerned personally about a stray bullet because I knew it was on campus and we're right across the street. We're as close as you can get to this Student Union. So, I mean, we were very concerned.

VALENCIA: Have you ever been through anything like this? I was here in 2014 when Florida State had a shooting at the library. This is a campus that's familiar with an incident like this, unfortunately. Have you been through something like this, a tragedy like this before?

FARABAUGH: This, I mean, you see this stuff on the news all the time, but it was surreal to be thrust into a life and death situation in this emergency instantly with these shots that are fired. And, you know, we're still reflecting and processing this. You know, Easter's coming up this Sunday for us as a church just to my right.

[18:05:03]

And, you know, it's the life and death situation that we're seeing and then the life and death of Christ. So, it's really some profound things are happening and we're praying a lot right now for the students and families.

VALENCIA: And, Father, I hope somebody's praying for you because I know what you saw earlier today. You saw those two bodies on the ground. We're praying for this community. Thank you so much for taking the time with CNN.

And Father Luke Farabaugh is expecting to have a mass here at 7:00 P.M. as planned. So, this church will be open for anyone who needs fellowship here in this time of tragedy. Jake?

TAPPER: Yes, what a horrible thing to happen at any time, but particularly on Holy Week. CNN's Nick Valencia, Florida State University, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss, Juliette Kayyem, CNN, senior national security analyst, and also former police and SWAT Captain Josh Schirard.

Josh, I'll start with you. The county sheriff says the suspect is the son of a Leon County sheriff's deputy. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF WALT MCNEIL, LEON COUNTY, FLORIDA: The alleged shooter was also a longstanding member of Leon County Sheriff's Office Citizen Advisory or Youth Advisory Council. So he has been steeped in the Leon County Sheriff's Office family, engaged in a number of training programs that we have. So, it's not a surprise to us that he had access to weapons.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: What's your reaction to that?

JOSH SCHIRARD, FORMER POLICE CAPTAIN: You know, for over five years since Columbine, law enforcement has really tried to identify precursors and signs and some of these active shooters that would tell us that, you know, maybe their style of upbringing, maybe their parents, maybe their home life would indicate that they are a higher risk of being an active shooter.

And every time we think we have something, something like this comes up that is so far off in left field from what we're used to seeing in an active shooter, that it just really throws every a wrench into the OODA loop of analysts out there and what to look for in active shooters.

Over the next coming days, we're going to learn a lot about the family life and about his upbringing. And it's going to be very interesting to see if there are any similarities between some of the other active shooters that came (ph). But, unfortunately, I don't know that we're going to find a lot of those.

TAPPER: Juliette, the suspected shooter was taken into custody alive. Is that unusual?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: About 50 percent of them -- 50 percent of mass shootings end with the perpetrator alive. He did not commit suicide. We don't know what sort of engagement there may have been and by whom. Was it the college and university police? Was it the outside police who came rushing, local and state, or was it some -- another student or someone affiliated with the college?

We understand, like at least by the reporting, that he has asserted his rights. He has a lawyer. So, we may not find much about him. But he would've likely left a strong footprint in social media, as well as his parents may be willing to talk about what they understood was going on in his life. His mother is law enforcement and where -- whether there were hints.

The big question, of course, is his access to a gun. From the press briefing earlier today, we learned that his mother likely purchased a gun. This is common from the sheriff's department, a gun that had been issued to her when the sheriff's department upgraded or changed what kind of guns they were using. This is very common. Where was that gun? Was there a lockbox? Did she have reason to believe that he would use it in this way?

TAPPER: And, Josh, some new video just came in from an FSU professor showing inside a building after a SWAT team came through. She says pink slips were taped to doors, walls, and floors to signify that they had given that room and all clear. The FBI is now reportedly on the scene. That's according to Attorney General Pam Bondi.

Walk us through the next steps for federal agents as they begin this investigation.

SCHIRARD: Yes. You know, fortunately, we do have a shooter in custody or a shooter is known. And there's no reason to believe that another shooter is at large. So, you know, first thing is, stop the killing, stop the dying, and then secure the area. Make sure that the community is safe. So, that's really what we've done. From here, the investigation is really going to unfold.. As to the big question is why, is there a motive, what was the motive behind this? Was it targeted at some person or a group of persons and just kind of unfolded into an active shooter? Or was this, you know, a mentally disturbed, troubled young adult that just decided that he wanted to kill as many people as he could?

So, I think that's really where our investigation is going to go from here is really looking at that motive, both for criminal prosecution reasons in the future, and, two, to continue learning about what to look for to help to make sure we're prepared in the future.

TAPPER: And, Juliette, police say -- they tell CNN that there were three guns that they recovered.

[18:10:00]

The suspect was taken into custody with a handgun. And then a shotgun was found in the student union and there was another firearm found in the suspect's car. What does that indicate about this? Does it suggest some planning that went into this? What do you think?

KAYYEM: Absolutely. The intention was a larger body count. So, that's why the interaction or what stopped him is going to be really important in terms of what we can learn or, honestly, how successful the police response was in minimizing the harm, even though we do have two deaths.

And I want to end with just saying like the fact that you, we know these details is really commendable from the police department. We've been to -- we've watched police briefings together that don't give us much. This was this -- it's important for law enforcement to be transparent about the number of guns, the expectation, who the person was. This was very difficult for them. They called him a member of their family. And because that gives the community a sense that there's nothing to hide, that these are competent officials who are going to minimize the harm and be transparent so that people can feel like eventually they will move on. The social and educational consequences of this who've experienced this is going to continue a lot longer than this investigation or even trial.

TAPPER: And maybe they're being so transparent because the shooter is the son of a sheriff's deputy. But whatever it is, I agree with you.

KAYYEM: Yes.

TAPPER: Applause for transparency there.

Julitte Kayyem and Josh Schirard, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

More than 1,000 international students have had their visas revoked in recent weeks as part of the Trump administration's A crackdown on immigration, even though these are all people in the country legally. Coming up next, I'm going to be joined by an attorney representing dozens of the students who are currently suing the Trump administration.

Plus, champing up to be one of the most high profile races in next year's midterm elections, the newest candidate already has scored the endorsement of Senator Bernie Sanders. That candidate joins The Lead live, coming up.

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TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, the Trump administration continues to ramp up its attacks on Harvard University as it threatens the elite university's eligibility to host international students. Harvard is not alone. By CNN's count, the Department of Homeland Security has deleted the visas of more than 1,000 international students and faculty at more than 130 colleges and universities just over the past few weeks.

And it isn't just students who participated in anti-Israel protests, says CNN's Gloria Pazmino reports a majority of university administrators say they simply don't know why these visas have been terminated.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Jayson Ma is months away from completing his mother's dying wish.

JAYSON MA, CARNEGIE MELLON UNIVERSITY STUDENT: One of the major factors that I decided to come forward and talk about this is the fact that my mom is sick,

PAZMINO: Ma, a Chinese national studying electrical computer engineering at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, is one of hundreds of international students across the U.S. whose visas or student status has been revoked in the past month.

MA: Really, it's my entire life at jeopardy.

PAZMINO: He was given no other explanation and has yet to hear from any federal agency.

Now, he's wondering if he'll have to leave the country, his school, and his unfinished degree behind.

MA: I have, you know, my suitcase half packed and it's a real possibility.

PAZMINO: Indian and Chinese nationals make up the largest share of all international students enrolled in the U.S. India sent more than 331,000 students in the last academic year. China came in second with more than 277,000 students enrolled across U.S. colleges and universities.

DR. FANTA AW, CEO, NAFSA, ASSOCIATION OF INTERNATIONAL EDUCATORS: These students are the future ambassadors who are going to make significant impact.

PAZMINO: Chinese students are under intense scrutiny as relations between Washington and Beijing deteriorate. China's Ministry of Education issued an advisory this month after the U.S. hit Chinese goods with new tariffs, telling students to, quote, conduct safety risk assessments when choosing to study in relevant states in the U.S.

AW: I would say that the last few weeks have been, for many, unsettling. It is a term that we've heard from many of our colleagues, anxiety-producing on many levels.

PAZMINO: Dr. Aw's group has been tracking cases of visa revocations in recent weeks, and hearing from international students who have yet to see enforcement action but are considering leaving the country.

It would be an abrupt shift. International student enrollments were at an all time record high last academic year, more than 1.1 million international students enrolled at American colleges and universities.

Trump's international student crackdown initially appeared to focus on student activists who participated in demonstrations against the Israel-Hamas war last year. But now it appears to have shifted. Revocations are being driven by small infractions, traffic violations, and minor run-ins with police.

JOSEPH MURPHY, JAYSON MA'S ATTORNEY: There was a DUI two years ago, but he was that case was dismissed.

PAZMINO: The State Department has declined multiple times to provide details about the criteria they are using to revoke student visas.

TAMMY BRUCE, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: The department revokes visas every day in order to secure our borders and to keep our communities safe and will continue to do so.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAZMINO (on camera): Now, Jake, speaking with students and academics, all of them pointed out that students in many ways are easy targets. The federal government has a wealth of information about them provided by the students seeking to maintain their status. The unexplained cancelations so far have left them feeling like they're being pushed out of the country as an effort to make the United States less diverse and less welcoming to people from certain nations.

[18:20:05]

Jake?

TAPPER: Gloria Pazmino in New York, thanks so much.

Joining us now is Dustin Baxter. Dustin Baxter is an immigration attorney. He represents more than 100 international students currently suing the Trump administration. Dustin, thanks for joining us.

So, you say that the Trump administration is going well beyond targeting just activists, not that that's acceptable, but at least that is a stated reason. You say that they're going after international students who may have had an encounter with a police officer, including even just a traffic violation, even if there isn't an arrest. What do you -- can you discern any sort of goal here of the Trump administration?

DUSTIN BAXTER, PARTNER, KUCK BAXTER IMMIGRATION LLC: No, I think it's, they must have run some kind of A.I. program through their system and just put a hit on anybody who had any type of encounter with any type of law enforcement or authority figures. Because we've seen a majority of our clients, the people who are plaintiffs, they only have arrests or even tickets for speeding, for a stop sign violation. So, no matter how minor, they were just flagged in the system for some reason. And those people were targeted for revocation of their visas.

TAPPER: Your case was heard in court today. The judge did not immediately rule. The judge did hint at some temporary possible relief for these students. The Trump administration argues that any relief would be harmful to, quote, the executive branch's ability to control immigration, unquote. What would be your response to that?

BAXTER: Well, the Trump administration still is bound by the Constitution. So, if they're going to do this and they're going to try and take away people's status, they have to go through due process. They have to follow the rules of the Administrative Procedures Act and go through certain steps and give them a chance to defend themselves and refute whatever problems it is that the Trump administration views them having.

TAPPER: It's almost May, so graduation is just around the corner for some of these students. Are any of the students you represent worried that they will be arrested or may have to flee and self-deport before they even finish their degree?

BAXTER: Absolutely. We filed anonymously for all these all these individuals out of fear that the Trump administration would seek vengeance on these people for filing this lawsuit. So, absolutely, that's a concern. And we have people who are getting ready to graduate. We have people who are -- in getting their doctorates that are supposed to defend their dissertations this week.

So, there are a lot of people with a lot at stake, but they're trying to weigh, you know, do I go out in public, do I put my name out there and risk being a target, being basically abducted in the streets like we see happening to people in the news, or if they just want to lay low and see what happens with this lawsuit before they take any action.

TAPPER: A lot of university administrators tell CNN that the Department of Homeland Security is going into the Student and Exchange Visitor Information System, or SEVIS, and deleting the visas of these students without the schools even knowing. Is that typically how the process works?

BAXTER: No, it's not typically how the process works. This is a brand new invention by the Trump administration. This is not how it's ever worked. In fact, yes, most of these DSOs, these service, these designated school officers, they didn't get any notifications. They had to go in affirmatively and look through the system to see if any of their students see this registration had been revoked.

So, this is not something that's ever happened before. Very -- it's never happened.

TAPPER: You say this has never happened before in terms of the SEVIS system. What about just this approach to foreign students in general?

BAXTER: Well, so, in the past, we've seen that the Department of State has revoked visas occasionally for people who have certain arrests or convictions, or at least what they do is when you leave the United States as a student, you have to reapply for a visa to come back in. They'll ask questions about an arrest. Sometimes if it's an arrest related to like alcohol or anything of that matter, of that nature, they'll put people in a program where they have to show that they don't have an alcohol abuse program or problem before they'll give them the visa to come back in.

But revocation of the visa, that's happened, you know, historically based on convictions or other issues, but not SEVIS cancelation, termination.

TAPPER: And we should just note that colleges and universities, I'm reading from Catherine Rampell's column in The Washington Post two days ago, are among America's most competitive international exporters in dollar terms. She says, last year, the U.S. sold more educational services to the rest of the world than it sold in natural gas and coal combined. So, there is financially a real issue here if people stop sending their students to the United States. So, there's a lot of money that the United States makes from this.

Dustin Baxter, thank you so much, I appreciate it.

A top researcher announcing his early retirement from the National Institutes of Health, blaming his exit on leadership under the new secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services, RFK Jr. And that researcher joins us live in studio, next.

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[18:25:00]

TAPPER: In our Health Lead, a top researcher for the National Institutes of Health shocked the scientific and medical communities this week by announcing his early retirement and blaming it on censorship from RFK Jr.'s administration at HHS. Dr. Kevin Hall, whose groundbreaking research exposed the dangers of ultra processed foods, such as potato chips or sugar-sweetened drinks, processed meats, French fries, wrote on social media, quote, unfortunately, recent events have made me question whether NIH continues to be a place where I can freely conduct unbiased science.

And Dr. Hall joins us now. And what's interesting about this is because skepticism of the food industry, which you have, is something that even people like me who find RFK Jr.'s anti-science approach on vaccines thought, okay, well, maybe he at least can do some good on this subject where you would seem to agree. But in your social media post announcing your departure, you also wrote, quote, I experienced censorship in the reporting of our research because of agency concerns that it, meaning our reports, did not appear to fully support preconceived narratives of my agency's leadership about ultra processed food and addiction.

[18:30:10]

So, tell me more.

DR. KEVIN HALL, FORMER NIH NUTRITION AND METABOLISM SCIENTIST: Right. So, we study ultra processed foods. We're one of the leading organizations and efforts to better understand how these foods affect our bodies and our brains. We had a paper coming out that was about how ultra processed foods affect levels of neurotransmitter in our brain, and they didn't seem to have the effect that many addictive drugs do.

And what we said in the paper was this narrative that ultra processed foods hijack a reward system of our brain and cause addictive-like tendencies, like cocaine or methamphetamine, that doesn't seem to be at work here.

TAPPER: This is based on the science?

HALL: Exactly. It's a study that we did in 50 people and we gave them ultra processed milkshakes and we looked into their brains and so see what the effects were, and we reported the results exactly like they were. And we said, this doesn't mean that these foods aren't addictive for some people. It just means that this particular biological mechanism is probably not the one at work.

TAPPER: And then what happened?

HALL: We were denied the ability to issue a press release about this paper. A New York Times reporter asked for an interview to talk about the paper, and that was denied. And an HHS communications director contacted the reporter at The New York Times and asked, is this really a story about RFK Jr.? Because this study doesn't fully support the narrative that ultra processed foods are addictive.

Now, I dispute that it doesn't support that narrative. It merely suggests a specific mechanism was at work. But any hint of daylight between a preconceived narrative and what the science was actually showing was telling me that there's a problem here. There's a red flag that are we really listening to the signs? Are we willing to actually listen to what the studies are showing or are we only interested in purveying the preconceived narrative and anything else should be downplayed?

TAPPER: Yes. And we should remind people that RFK Jr. is not a doctor, he's not a scientist, he does not have a graduate degree in any of those fields. Here is part of a statement that CNN got from an HHS spokesperson. Quote, it's disappointing that this individual is fabricating false claims. We remain committed to promoting gold standard research and advocating and advancing public health priorities. Any attempt to paint this as censorship is a deliberate distortion of the facts. And, again, to remind people that RFK Jr. has a decades-long record of saying things that are not true about science, just to remind people as a factual matter. But what's your response to that?

HALL: My response is I don't think they understand what censorship means. Because even then, after the interview was denied, The New York Times reporter wrote written questions to us, of which we responded to those written questions. And the HHS communications director edited those questions and attributed them to me. So, I actually have copies of here's what I approved, here's the edited version, which downplayed our study, said this is a really small study and --

TAPPER: And acted as if you had said it?

HALL: Correct.

TAPPER: And did you try to get any clarification from the leadership of HHS or NIH?

HALL: What I did was when I was you know, experiencing this and worried that does this mean that there might be future meddling in our actual research, not just the reporting to the press. I reached out to RFK Jr. and the acting director of the NIH, as well as the new director of the NIH, expressing my concerns, as well as saying, you know, our research is aligned with the mission. We want to make Americans healthy. We want to understand the mechanisms of ultra processing so that we don't make missteps, like attributing it all to, say, a food additive or a food dye when it's really some other property. We're actually making really good progress, understanding the mechanisms by which ultra processed foods cause people to overeat and gain weight.

That I think is what we should be focused on. We should be focused on understanding the science and following the science, and not being tied to a preconceived narrative about how these foods are actually harming people.

TAPPER: Do you think they just wanted to be able to say, well, no, no, no, processed foods are as addictive as cocaine, and because your conclusion was contrary to that?

HALL: I can't speak to the reasons. All I can speak to is what we experienced.

TAPPER: It's really upsetting to hear, because, obviously, this is something that does need science and research, so we know how to deal with it, because, look, we have an obesity epidemic out there in the United States partly at least caused by this.

Dr. Kevin Hall, thanks so much. I appreciate your courage and your research. A growing number of reservists are now speaking out against Israel's war in Gaza. Their concerns and the response from the Israeli government is next.

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[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our World Lead, after more than 18 months into Israel's war on Hamas in Gaza, frustration is mounting among those serving on the frontlines for Israel in the war. Thousands of Israeli reservists are publicly condemning Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's decision to keep fighting in Gaza.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond is in Tel Aviv for us with a look at the growing dissent in Israel and how the Israeli government is responding.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Dr. Or Goren spent months deploying to Gaza as a combat physician in the Israeli military, treating and evacuating wounded soldiers. Now, he's part of a growing number of reservists who believe the war is no longer serving its stated goals, destroying Hamas and returning the hostages.

DR. OR GOREN, IDF RESERVIST AND COMBAT PHYSICIAN: Nope, I don't believe it anymore, and it's a year-and-a-half, Gaza has demolished, hundreds -- tens of thousands of people killed, the houses there are -- infrastructure is destructed, but Hamas still rules the place, still shoots rockets. And so where are we heading?

DIAMOND: Goren is one of thousands of reservists who have signed public letters calling on the Israeli government to end the war and strike a hostage deal. The first letter from Air Force reservists and retirees quickly spawned others, from reserve combat physicians and paratroopers to sailors and military intelligence officers, all echoing this message.

[18:40:00]

At this time, the war mainly serves political and personal interests and not security interests. The continuation of the war will lead to the death of abductees IDF soldiers and innocent civilians, and to the attrition of reservists.

The Israeli military, which heavily depends on reservists to bolster its regular forces, moving swiftly to quash, the dissent, firing dozens of reservists who signed the letters. The Israeli Prime Minister slamming the signatories as a small group of bad apples, accusing them of refusing to serve for political reasons.

GOREN: The pilot's letter did not say they will stop serving. There was nothing illegal about it. We are the backbone of this society. How can you silence us? DIAMOND: The outrage in Israel is mounting. Seven in ten Israelis say they want a deal to end the war and get the hostages out, according to Israel's Channel 12. And now, between rising political opposition and the burden of multiple tours on reservists and their families, as many as 40 percent of reservists no longer showing up when called to duty.

Even among those who support the war, like Meital Borenstein-Hadari, 18 months of war, is taking its toll. Her husband has spent more than 300 days deployed, forcing her to scale back her speech therapy practice as she raises her four kids.

During this latest fifth deployment, my entire body hurt, she says. For 300 days he wasn't home and I needed to carry on my small shoulders what we usually hold together.

But while others say, enough is enough, Meital wants Israel to keep fighting.

The limit, she says, is when we win.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Tel Aviv.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And our thanks to Jeremy Diamond for that report.

My next guest already has scored the endorsement of Senator Bernie Sanders in what might be one of the most watched, most competitive U.S. Senate races in the midterms. He just got into the race today and he's next.

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[18:45:50]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: In our politics lead, the fight among Democratic contenders for Michigan soon to be open U.S. Senate seat is starting to heat up. A new progressive candidate just joined the race, former Detroit health director and former CNN contributor, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, announced his candidacy today. He's already earned himself an endorsement from independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont.

And Dr. Abdul El-Sayed joins us now.

Dr. El-Sayed, it's good to see you again.

You're looking to replace outgoing Democratic Senator Gary Peters, who's retiring. Your kids are only two and seven. Are you ready to -- if you win, you're going to be away from them a lot. Are you ready for -- for that? That will be tough. I know you're a family guy.

ABDUL EL-SAYED (D), MICHIGAN SENATE CANDIDATE: I am, and, Jake, I'll tell you this -- I'm raising these ethnically half Egyptian, half Indian, 100 percent American little girls. They're two and seven. And they're about to enter these glorious ages. And I would so like to spend more time with them. And at the same time, I have to ask myself, what does it mean to raise them in an America where we're watching as our constitutional rights are being actively eroded by the guy in the White House?

And so to me, I know that their grandparents, whether it's my parents or my wife's parents took a bet on an America where they could freely grow up and be who they were without having to worry about whether or not their rights would be taken away.

And so I've got to step up. I think all of us got to step up for the kind of America we're leaving to our kids. And so, it's -- I'm going to miss them. But -- but I know what I'm fighting for.

TAPPER: So you are progressive and you're the -- you're the favorite of Bernie Sanders. Do you have any concerns that that -- I mean, Michigan is voted for Trump, you know, in the presidential election. And that's not the first time they voted for Trump. What do you say to people who say, maybe you're too progressive to win a state that Trump won?

EL-SAYED: Yeah, Jake, I don't always love these labels because as a scientist, as you know, I trained as a scientist. And sometimes these words mean different things for different people. And I try to be precise about what I mean.

I care about a economy that works for working people, where people don't feel like they're being priced out, or that they're on the edge of losing a job. I care about guaranteed health insurance for everybody. I care about clean air and clean water.

There was a time when these things were just common sense, and I think we need to get back to that time. And I'll tell you, I've started a conversation with Michiganders when I started public service here in 2015, ten years now.

And when I talk to them about the challenges that they face, the things that give them anxiety, when they look their kids in the eye, they are issues that have a lot more to do with whether or not they have tangible things like good schools for their kids, or whether or not they're worried about whether or not somebody's going to automate their job through A.I.

And so, I want to focus on those things. And I'm so grateful for Senator Sanders support, because I know that for the past 50-plus years of his public service, he's been talking about exactly those same issues. So progressive or not progressive, I'm really just focused on -- on delivering for Michiganders.

And as somebody who's a two-time health official, my job was to show up every day and secure people's health. Whether that meant erasing $700 million in medical debt or making sure that folks had Narcan when they needed it.

And so that's what I'm focused on. And I know if we focus on that, we center the public and public service that we'll be able to render a service onto people. And I think that's going to wind me up in the U.S. Senate. TAPPER: Well, let me ask you, New York Democratic Congresswoman

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, who along with sanders, endorsed you when you ran for governor in 2018. That didn't turn out the way you wanted it. She just raised $9.6 million during the first quarter of the year, her best ever fundraising quarter.

Do you think she should take on Chuck Schumer? Do you think that she should run for president in 2028?

EL-SAYED: Well, I'll tell you this. I know that AOC is one of these generational leaders, and it's because she centers exactly public and public service. She's been a fighter on guaranteed health insurance for everybody, and on an economy that works for people. I'll be honest, I don't know whether or not she plans to run for Senate in New York in 2028.

But what I will tell you is I'm focused on my race here for Senate in Michigan in 2026, and I also know that if we're able to lead on our values here, that we can start setting a precedent for where our politics can yet go.

[18:50:05]

At the end of the day, Donald Trump has been decimating our government. He's been -- he's been -- been destroying our -- our economy so they can offer a stock tip to his billionaire buddies, and we can do a lot better. I hope folks will go to abdulforsenate.com to support us.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, U.S. Senate candidate for Michigan, thanks so much. Good to see you, sir.

EL-SAYED: Thank you so much. Appreciate you. Jake.

TAPPER: Yesterday, it was George Clooney. Today, we're catching up with another one of America's favorite TV stars. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our pop culture lead, my next guest, you may know as a reporter in the TV sitcom "News Radio". She's also played a nurse and a physician in the medical drama E.R. She's played a jilted wife and mother in Showtime's "The Affair", and a detective on "Law and Order", which she guest starred in 1991 and the second season as the sister of a victim, and she returned to the show full time last year as Lieutenant Jessica Brady.

And fans of crime procedurals are in for a special crossover between "Law and Order" and "Law and Order: Special Victims Unit, SVU", which is set to air in a two hour event tonight.

Joining us now, Emmy-nominated, Golden Globe winner Maura Tierney.

Maura, it's a -- it's been 21 years since we last spoke at the White House correspondents dinner 2004. It's good to see you again. How are you doing? MAURA TIERNEY, AWARD WINNING ACTRESS: Yes. It's nice to see you. I'm

doing well, as are you. I really enjoy watching you.

TAPPER: Thank you so much.

And you -- it's hard to realize that clip that we that we showed from 1991, season two of "Law and Order", which has been on air for 600 years now, was more than 30 years ago.

TIERNEY: Seven.

TAPPER: What is it like returning to an iconic show like "Law and Order", except not as a guest star, but as a as a full time star?

TIERNEY: It's completely different, you know, because the show did take a hiatus. So, people think it's been on for 24 straight years, but it hasn't. There was a little break where the show was off the air, and then it came back on four years ago, five years ago.

So, the cast that I'm working with now is completely new, and the writers are new. So there's a -- there's a whole different kind of energy behind this version of the show.

TAPPER: So, fans of "Law and Order" and "Law and Order: SVU" know that episodes are often inspired by real events, although it always has the disclaimer at the front saying that it's not based on anybody in particular when the show is, you know, especially resonant. I promise this isn't a spoiler, but the opening scene of this crossover is an ICE raid and an ICE chase that ultimately leads to the scene of a brutal murder and killer that targets marginalized women.

Immigration very much in the air. What's the reasoning behind tackling a topic this difficult? Because it's obviously quite controversial.

TIERNEY: I think they sort of managed to do a really good job of focusing on the people. It was not a political episode. It was focusing on the need in the community and the vulnerability of the community, especially the women in the community. And I think it was able to examine that without getting into a deep political discussion about who should be here and who shouldn't be here. It was about a need.

I mean, there are young people in this country who are very vulnerable, and I feel like that's what the show is tackling. Less judgment in the -- in the political arena.

TAPPER: Maura Tierney, it's so great to have you on. Thank you so much. The episode will be tonight on NBC. Thanks so much for joining us.

TIERNEY: Thank you. Great to see you again.

TAPPER: Also in our pop lead, on the subject of "ER", a follow up to our interview with George Clooney that we aired yesterday in full. Clooney, in that interview, denied a story excerpted from a new book. The story claimed that after one of the hosts of "Morning Joe"

suggested that former President Obama had some role in Clooney's op-ed calling for Biden to drop out, Clooney called an MSNBC -- MSNBC producer and yelled at them. That book, by author Chris Whipple, takes issue with Clooney denying that story, saying it's not true at all and it causes him to question everything else in the book.

Whipple tells us, quote, I'm a George Clooney fan, but I stand by my reporting in "Uncharted". That's the name of his book. Clooney knows full well that what I reported is true after "Morning Joe's" Mika Brzezinski suggested that Barack Obama had put him up to writing a "New York Times" op-ed piece urging Joe Biden to step aside.

Clooney called a friend who works at "Morning Joe". They had a heated, profanity-laced discussion, just as I reported in my book, in order to protect this person's identity. I referred to him as a producer, Whipple said.

We asked Clooney to respond to Whipple's response, and Clooney told us, quote, so Chris Whipple begins his statement by admitting that he made up the source. It's fairly common practice to tell your readers that the source was anonymous, rather than making up a fake producer. I have not spoken to or said any of these things.

I have now shown my for email exchange with Mike Barnicle, who is a friend and has come to see my play. The exchange shows exactly what took place, and it ends without any of the language that Mr. Whipple reported. I'm showing that exchange to Jake Tapper now. This is me, Jake Tapper now, he did show me that exchange.

Mike Barnicle is the only person I know or have ever exchanged any communications with for "Morning Joe". The story and the defense of the story are false. There are a lot more important things going on in the world than this, but since I'm being called a liar, I have no option but to prove this story, to be a complete -- complete lie, unquote.

And again, George Clooney did show me those emails, not phone call with Mike Barnicle, not a producer. And what he tells me is, as he said in that statement, correct.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.