Return to Transcripts main page

The Lead with Jake Tapper

Pope Francis Dies At Age 88; Pope Francis Asked For A Simple Burial; Cardinals To Choose Next Pope During Conclave; Sources: Hegseth Shared Detailed Military Plans In Second Group Chat Which Included His Wife, Brother, And Lawyer; Trump After Supreme Court Pauses Deportation Flights: My Team Is "Being Stymied" At Every Turn; Argentinians Mourn Native Son Who Became Pope. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 21, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST & POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Pretty remarkable message. Jake Tapper standing by for "The Lead" for us. Jake, a really remarkable life and a remarkable legacy.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Indeed. Indeed. Yeah, it's a sad day but he -- he affected so many people's lives for the better. So, it's really quite a legacy. Thanks, Kasie. Appreciate it.

HUNT: Have a good show.

TAPPER: We'll see you back in "The Arena" tomorrow. Tributes from around the world coming in for Pope Francis. "The Lead" starts right now.

New details from the Vatican about the pope and his special request made before he died. The defining mark this pope leaves on some of the most divisive issues of our time as the Catholic church gets ready to select who's gonna serve in the role next.

Plus, what President Trump said today about his embattled Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, who, it was recently discovered, used yet another Signal group chat to share military strike plans. This time on the chat were his wife and his lawyer and his brother. Why?

And Wall Street rocked by the president's latest attack on the Federal Reserve chairman, calling him "Mr. Too Late" and "a major loser." What that did to your retirement savings today?

Welcome, to "The Lead." I'm Jake Tapper. We're gonna start with the breaking news in our "Faith Lead" today and the outpouring of condolences for Pope Francis who died this morning, Easter Monday, at the age of 88. Pope Francis is leaving behind a legacy as a reformer and a catalyst in the Catholic church. He's seen as a pope who fought for the marginalized, pushing for the rights and protections of migrants and the poor, stressing for gays and lesbians to be treated with dignity, allowing same sex marriages to receive blessings.

Pope Francis embraced the role of women in the church by giving women higher positions in the Vatican than ever before. His actions at times facing sharp criticism from conservatives and traditionalists. In a statement late this afternoon, the Vatican said the pope died of a stroke, followed by heart failure. This after a lengthy battle with pneumonia, released from the hospital just last month after a five- week stay.

Today, millions of people around the world honored Pope Francis attending mass celebrating his life. A short time ago, President Donald Trump said he and First Lady Melania Trump will travel to Rome to attend the Pope's funeral. Earlier, the President ordered all federal and state flags lowered to half-staff as he too paid condolences to the Pope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: He was a good man, worked hard. He loved the world and it's an honor to do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We're gonna start our coverage today with CNN's Ben Wedeman, who is live in Saint Peter's Square in Vatican City. And, Ben, as we get new images showing Vatican officials symbolically sealing the entrance of the papal apartment in the Apostolic Palace, we know Pope Francis asked to be buried in a, quote, "simple tomb." What might that look like?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This was in his last testament. That's in the Basilica Of Santa Maria Maggiore, which is outside of Rome, but it is a Vatican property. There, he's asked to be entombed in a simple tomb. And as it says in the testament, it says the tomb must be in the earth. Simple without particular decoration and with only the inscription Franciscus.

Now, this is really in line with his style as a pope and even before the pope, before he was the pontiff, keeping everything very simple. This was a pope though even though they sealed the apostolic apartments, he never actually lived there. He lived in a very stark, simple, Spartan two room suite in the Casa Santa Marta where he died according to the Vatican at 07:35 this morning.

He preferred to travel around in the Fiat Cinquecento when he went around just yesterday right behind me in Saint Peter's Square. He was in the pope mobile, but without the bulletproof glass that had become standard for popes after the assassination attempt against Pope John Paul II. So this was a pope who lived simply and he wants to be buried simply. Jake?

TAPPER: Do we know the timeline for a funeral? And when could we see the conclave to pick a new pope?

WEDEMAN: Well, we understand that his body will lie in state beginning Wednesday in Saint Peter's Basilica behind me, that within five to seven days, the funeral will take place. We still have not heard from the Vatican when exactly that will be.

[17:05:59]

And, also, according to new rules laid down by Pope Francis, the conclave must happen within 15 to 20 days of the death of the pontiff. And he essentially has put a limit of 13 days on how long that conclave should last.

Now back in March 2013, the conclave just lasted for two days. There were five ballots. The last one, of course, ending with white smoke and the announcement that Jorge Bergoglio would be the pope. Of course, Jorge Bergoglio was the birth name of Pope Francis.

TAPPER: All right. Ben Wedeman, Vatican City. Thank you so much. CNN's Brynn Gingras is live for us at Saint Patrick's Cathedral in New York City. And Bryn, you've been talking to people inside the cathedral all day. How are people reacting to the pope's death?

BRYNN GINGRAS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. Well, Jake, you know Saint Patrick's Cathedral is such a big tourist destination here in New York City, but we have been seeing so many people from all over the world, quite frankly, different countries coming in to pay their respects specifically to Pope Francis. Inside at the altar, there is a picture of Pope Francis. There's that chalice that he used to say mass at Madison Square Garden when he paid a visit to New York City back in 2015. And I got to tell you, I've seen people walk out of Saint Patrick's Cathedral, some people in tears.

One woman told me today that she felt broken. Another person said that they felt at peace knowing that Pope Francis had been sick for quite some time. And as they mourn Pope Francis and remember his legacy, they are also now looking toward the future, who will be next. And what I've been struck by, Jake, is the amount of young people who have gone into Saint Patrick's Cathedral to pay their respects. And I want you to hear, from one person about what they hope for in this next pope.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: I know he's done a lot to install bishops and cardinals who are working sort of towards the same ends of reaching out of community of social justice. So hopefully, even if we happen to get a pope who's a little bit more conservative this go around, he sort of set the groundwork for a broader, more accepting, and loving, and welcoming church, and that's kind of my hope. I'm hoping that that's -- his part of his legacy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GINGRAS: And certainly right now, this is a time to honor Pope Francis and remember how he left this world in a better place. There's actually going to be another daily mass beginning in just a few minutes at 05:30 here, at Saint Patrick's Cathedral, daily mass that will be in his name as we have seen throughout the day today. And, Jake, we talked to Cardinal Timothy Dolan here from New York City. He is headed to Rome tomorrow to get started when that conclave convenes.

TAPPER: And, Brynn, what were the crowds like at the cathedral today?

GINGRAS: Very busy. Listen, Saint Patrick's Cathedral is always visited by so many people, as I said, tourists from all over this world, but it definitely had a special feeling today. People there who are showing up to pray, to light candles, to genuflect in front of that altar that again has that picture of Pope Francis. One woman said she bought rose rubies that were blessed by Pope Francis. So there's definitely this heavy feeling of remembering who this man was and what he met for not only Catholics, but people of all faiths.

TAPPER: All right. Brynn Gingras in New York City. Thanks so much. Let's bring in the Archbishop Thomas Wenski of the Archdiocese of Miami. Thank you so much for coming, sir. So yesterday, in the very last public remarks he would give, Pope Francis called for an end to any number of wars, Gaza, Ukraine, Sudan.

An aide read the Pope's remarks saying, quote, "What a great thirst for death, for killing we witness each day and the many conflicts raging in different parts of our world. How much contempt is stirred up at times towards the vulnerable, the marginalized, and migrants," unquote.

Pope Francis was known as a fierce advocate for peace. What do you make of this being, one of his final messages?

THOMAS WENSKI, ARCHBISHOP OF MIAMI: Well, it's, certainly vintage Pope Francis. Throughout his pontificate, he spoke very strongly against what he called the culture of discarding, the cultura de discarte, the throwaway culture. And he also condemned what he saw a growing sense of globalization of indifference. This indifference, this throwaway culture, as he saw, was responsible for the suffering of many people, especially the poor and the vulnerable, and he was a voice on their behalf.

TAPPER: And that also played a role in his dedication to fighting climate change. He wrote in a 2023 encyclical, quote, "The world in which we live is collapsing and maybe nearing the breaking point. In addition to this possibility, it is indubitable that the impact of climate change will increasingly prejudice the lives and families of many persons," unquote.

[17:09:59]

Do you think Pope Francis had an impact on the fight against climate change?

WENSKI: Well, I think he certainly raised the consciousness of the world as to the threat of climate change. And, of course, he had a synod in the called the Amazonian Synod, which addressed the challenges of the disappearance of the forest in Brazil. And those forests are part of the lungs of the world that replenish the oxygen in the air. And certainly, if they were to disappear, it would affect very adversely the state of the world.

TAPPER: One of the more controversial positions he took had to do with a more sympathetic, compassionate approach to LGBT issues within the Catholic church than previous popes did. I want to play one of his more famous comments.

POPE FRANCIS (through translation): If a person is gay and accepts the Lord and has goodwill, who am I to judge them?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: He also said that transgender individuals could be godparents and their children could be baptized. These remarks were a real change for the Catholic church around LGBT people.

WENSKI: Well, I think maybe not so much a change in the teachings of the church, but a change in the tone in the way that we present those teachings.

TAPPER: He was one of the most progressive popes that the church ever had. Do you think when the cardinals gather to elect a new pope, they'll want somebody, who will continue those tendencies or somebody who might be more traditional, take a more conservative approach?

WENSKI: Well, it's hard to ascribe labels that come from politics, conservative, progressive to a religious theater because the Pope was criticized by many progressives as being too conservative, and certainly he was considered -- criticized by so-called conservatives as being too progressive. You remember Pope Francis on many occasions compared those who -- the doctors that perform abortions as being mafia hitmen or the equivalent of mafia hitmen. So he certainly was not progressive in the common understanding on that front.

And, and certainly, many of the conservatives took issue with some of his positions that seemed to be too progressive. I think, you know, he disturbed people on both sides, which meant he was doing his job.

TAPPER: Archbishop Thomas Wenski of Miami, thank you so much for talking to us today, and our deepest condolences to you and everybody in the Vatican and everybody in the family of Catholics across the world.

WENSKI: When somebody dies at 88 years old, that's not unexpected. But, certainly, just like when a parent or grandparent dies, it comes as a shock even though it's expected.

TAPPER: Thank you so much, sir. Appreciate you being with us. When the cardinals eventually meet to select the next pope, what really goes on behind closed doors? Well, we'll take you inside the conclave process made famous, by the movie.

Plus, Pope Francis and his unique relationship with U.S. Presidents. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:15:00]

TAPPER: Continuing with our "Faith Lead," Pope Francis's sudden death today came as something of a surprise, but his long illness and hospitalization, of course, this year led Vatican watchers to start speculating about who might be chosen as the next pope. Conclave, a movie about intrigue during a papal election, made a big splash not long ago during Oscar season, so we asked CNN's Nick Watt to look ahead and try to sort out fact from fiction.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NICK WATT, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A new pope to lead the world's 1.4 billion Catholics will be chosen by just around 130 cardinals in a mysterious many centuries old right, the conclave, conclave, "with key."

THOMAS REESE, SENIOR ANALYST, RELIGION NEWS SERVICE: They're locked in the Vatican, and all their phones are taken away. They're not allowed to communicate with the outside world until they elect a pope.

WATT (voice-over): Every cardinal under the age of 80 is summoned to Rome for this and must swear an oath of secrecy, punishable by excommunication.

REESE: It's a secret ballot. The cardinals don't even know who voted for whom.

WATT (voice-over): Father Reese says the movie "Conclave" got it almost right.

STANLEY T UCCI, ACTOR: You have to commit to a side.

WATT (voice-over): Except a secretly elected cardinal would never be allowed in, and the cardinal's robes were slightly the wrong color.

REESE: I think Hollywood got it better than the Catholic church. I like the deeper red.

WATT (voice-over): By day, the cardinals will sit in silence and prayer in the Sistine Chapel under Michelangelo's magnificent ceiling. Two votes in the morning, two in the afternoon until one candidate wins two-thirds of the ballots. By night, they stay in a boarding house nearby where the horse trading happens late into the evening.

REESE: Different cardinals will go around pushing for the candidate that they would like to see become pope. Your friends have to do that for you. You cannot do that yourself. That would indicate a level of pride that would be unacceptable in a pope.

WATT (voice-over): The pope just has to be male and Catholic, but since 1389, the cardinals have always elected one of their own. After every inconclusive round of votes, the smoke from the chapel chimney is black. Ballots are burned with some chemicals thrown in to create the color. When a new pope is chosen, the smoke is white. At the last conclave, there was a problem.

REESE: The monsignor in charge of the stove didn't follow the directions and the smoke came out gray and everybody in Saint Peter's Square was scratching their heads.

WATT (voice-over): So they rang the biggest bell in the square as well.

REESE: And as soon as you see it swinging, you know it's over. WATT (voice-over): The new pope chooses a name and is ushered to the

room of tears.

REESE: And in that room they will have three sets of papal garments, the white cassock that the pope wears, one small, one medium, and one large.

[17:20:04]

WATT (voice-over): For the new pope to wear when he walks out onto that famous balcony in Saint Peter's Square.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WATT (on camera): Now the conclave, Jake, will convene in just a little over two weeks from now. How long they'll take? Well, that is an open question. You know, back in 1200's, they once took nearly three years. That was to elect Gregory X. In the past few years, it's really been two or three days has become the norm.

Now, the fact that there is no clear front runner, that might add a little time, something that might take away a little time. Eighty percent of these electors were appointed as cardinals by Pope Francis. So there's a good chance they're on a similar page, which might make reaching a consensus a little quicker.

And it's important to note here, they are not just picking a person to lead the church, they're really picking what direction the church is gonna go in over the next few years. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Nick Watt, thanks so much. Appreciate it. Vice President J.D. Vance met with Pope Francis just yesterday. The pope also met with the three U.S. presidents who were in the Oval Office during his papacy. With us now is historian John McGreevy. He is the provost at the University of Notre Dame, its second ranking official. Thanks for joining us.

So after his election in 2013, Francis' pontificate spanned the terms of, Barack Obama, Donald Trump, Joe Biden, and then a little bit of Trump again. Joe Biden, the only Catholic of them all. Talk to us a little bit about his relationship with all three. Let's start with Trump who met him in 2017.

JOHN MCGREEVY, PROVOST, UNIERSITY OF NOTRE DAME: Well, you know, first of all, it's great to be here. The relationship with President Trump was somewhat antagonistic. You know, Francis was the first pope from the Global South, and as such, he was focused on a lot of the issues that Catholics in the Global South are focused on, including migration and environmental issues, among other things.

And, of course, Francis's view of migrants that they have basic human dignity that they need to be supported, was challenged in some ways as especially that's not what you mean by the actions, but by the rhetoric of President Trump. So there was some tension there even if there were sympathy on other issues, but there was real tension on some of the issues that were core for Pope Francis. TAPPER: How about his relationship with President Obama? Obama was president when Francis was first elected in 2013 and when he visited The United States back in 2015.

MCGREEVY: You know, even judging by the statement that President Obama released this morning, it was a very warm as far as we can tell, relationship. Now on the one hand, President Obama was very pro- choice. Pope Francis, of course, is very pro-life on the abortion issue. On the other hand, on issues like climate change, which was crucial for Pope Francis, on issues like, as I said before, migration, Pope, Francis and Obama seem to see eye to eye, and the relationship by all the accounts we have, actually was quite warm. And that was reflected in President Obama's statement this morning.

TAPPER: And then, of course, there's Joe Biden who after John F. Kennedy, has been only the second Catholic president this country has ever had.

MCGREEVY: You know, one of the ironies of the recent past and the relationship between the Vatican and the U.S. is that president Biden was the most Catholic president we've ever had, a very faithful practicing Catholic. But because of his pro-choice views on abortion, there was a lot of antagonism to President Biden from within the Catholic church in the United States, but not so much from Pope Francis.

Again, Pope Francis is very pro-life, but he and Biden clearly saw eye to eye on a number of other issues, and they were able to develop a quite strong working relationship. And, again, you saw that this morning too, with President Biden's very warm, very enthusiastic statement. You know, those who watched the state of the union address as we could always see in the background there when President Biden was giving the state of the union, a big photo of President Biden and Pope Francis, which at least, I think, symbolically suggested the importance that President Biden placed on that relationship.

TAPPER: Yeah. The Oval Office addresses with that photo. When we speak of Catholicism and politics, you've noted that the fight over abortion rights has colored the relationship between popes and Democrats and Republicans in some ways for decades. Do you think that abortion will remain the top issue when it comes to relationships that the United States president has with the pope, drowning out economics, treatment of the poor, migration, or the environment? Or do you think it's just -- it depends on the pope and it depends on the day?

MCGREEVY: A little bit depends on the pope depends on the day. And, of course, we have to see who's elected as the next pope, but I actually would add that American politics has changed too. In the post Dobbs environment, you know, the issue of abortion has been more firmly placed in the states.

[17:25:02]

It's less of a national political issue, although it is still somewhat national. And in that context too, I think other issues are gonna come to the fore, and they include migration. They include climate change. They include the kind of economy we have and how that protects the dignity of the poor, which was such a big issue for Pope Francis. So I do think the constellation of issues is gonna shift a bit.

TAPPER: John McGreevy, thanks so much. Really appreciate it.

MCGREEVY: Thanks. Happy to be here.

TAPPER: Live images from Buenos Aires where a mass is underway in the hometown of the late Pope Francis. We're gonna go live to Argentina coming up. But first, Signalgate 2.0. What Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth is saying and not saying today about sharing sensitive plans about a military strike on a Signal chat that happen to include his wife and his brother and his lawyer?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:30:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, the White House is denying reports that it is looking to replace Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth after CNN, following the New York Times, reported that Hegseth shared detailed military plans in a second Signal Group chat. This one included his wife, Jennifer, his brother, Phil, who is a Homeland Security attache to the Pentagon, and his lawyer, Tim Parlatore, who now also works for the Pentagon. This, according to three people familiar with the chat.

Asked about this at today's White House Easter event, Hegseth accused former employees and the media of creating a smear campaign against him, but he did not actually deny the story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: This is what the media does. They take anonymous sources from disgruntled former employees, and then they try to slash and burn people and ruin their reputations. It's not going to work with me.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Of course, once again, that's not a denial that Hegseth sent sensitive information about a pending U.S. attack on a personal phone to a Signal Group that included his wife. What would almost certainly be intensely investigated, if done by anyone else who worked at the Pentagon, including a uniformed officer.

This latest revelation comes as some of Hegseth's closest advisers are warning that the Secretary of Defense is creating dysfunction and chaos at the Pentagon. CNN's Kaitlan Collins is at the White House for us now. Kaitlan, as of now, President Trump is publicly defending Hegseth. Do any of your sources believe that that could change, especially if there's another story?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: It's really a case-by-case basis right now, Jake. Yes, the President came out today. He offered a full- throated defense of Secretary Hegseth, defended him, and also dismissed what is at the heart of this story that CNN reported in "The New York Times" yesterday about Hegseth creating this group chat with all of those people on it where he shared sensitive information, which I should note, today, Hegseth's team is arguing was not classified information.

But of course, that was the same argument we saw in the initial Signal chat that was made where he shared those military plans there as well. And I'm told that after the story came out last night that Secretary Hegseth had a call directly with President Trump where he addressed this and talked about that. And then just a few hours later at the Easter Egg Roll today, we also saw President Trump essentially echoing what we heard from Secretary Hegseth.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's just fake news. They just bring up stories. I guess it sounds like disgruntled employees. You know, he was put there to get rid of a lot of bad people, and that's what he's doing. So you don't always have friends when you do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: So you heard the president using that phrase there, Jake, disgruntled ex-employees. That is also what Secretary Hegseth said earlier when he was speaking with reporters. But of those three people who they are likely referencing that were ousted on Friday after being placed on administrative leave, two of them are advisers to Hegseth that have worked for him and with him for years, including at that veterans organization that he previously ran. These are people that he chose to put in his inner circle at the Pentagon and were some of his most senior advisers that they are now calling these anonymous smears and pushing back on these three officials without naming them directly, Jake.

And so obviously there is an Inspector General investigation going on into the previous Signal Group chat. So it remains to be seen what happens there. And of course, also, you know, when it talks about the inner circle at the Pentagon and what that looks like, we're waiting to see who he announces as new hires, because much of his inner circle has now departed.

TAPPER: Yes. And we should just note after Hegseth's comments and President Trump's comments, no one is denying the story that Hegseth put out sensitive information about a pending battle on a Signal chat on his private personal phone that included his wife, his brother and his lawyer. No one is denying that.

COLLINS: Yes, they're only denying that it was classified information, Jake, which obviously the inspector general may very well be looking into that.

TAPPER: Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thanks so much. Kaitlan is going to have more tonight on The Source with Kaitlan Collins. It's at 9:00 Eastern, only here on CNN. Well, let's talk about this with somebody who knows a little bit about running the Defense Department, former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta. Secretary Panetta, I was part of this reporting team on this story for CNN. And I have to ask, I have not used the term classified because I'm not in charge of classification. But if a uniformed officer put out pending attack information on a Signal group, a commercial app on his private phone, and it included his wife who does not work for the Pentagon, what would happen to that uniformed officer?

LEON PANETTA, FORMER DEFENSE SECRETARY, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION: That uniformed officer would be summarily dismissed and fired for having really created a major breach in security. These are attack plans. These are attack plans. You've got targets. You've got weapons. You've got timing for when this attack is going to take place. Make no mistake about it, we are talking about top secret information when you're talking about attack plans.

[17:35:04]

And yet to be discussing these kinds of plans, whether it was on the first about top secret information when you're talking about attack plans. And yet to be discussing these kinds of plans, whether it was on the first Signal chat with people who were at least top officials, except there was a journalist who happened to be on there as well. And then to have a second incident where he's doing this on a Signal chat in which he again is talking about weapons and targets and timing for these attacks. This is all a major breach of security that really calls into question whether he should remain a Secretary of Defense.

TAPPER: Our understanding, my understanding, is that what he sent on the second chat was very similar, if not identical, to what he sent on the first chat. And we know what was on the first chat because Mike Waltz, the National Security Advisor, accidentally added the Atlantic Magazine's Jeff Goldberg to that one. Here is some of that, because I want people to -- to remember what we're talking about here.

This is when they were talking about military strikes against the Houthis in Yemen. And Hegseth writes, team update, time now 11:44 ET, weather is favorable, just confirmed with CENTCOM, we are a go for mission launch.

12:15 ET, F-18 launch, first strike package. 13:45, that's 1:45, trigger based F-18, first strike window starts. Target terrorist is at his known location, so should be on time. Also strike drone launch, MQ-9S. Now I am not in charge of classifying, but that seems like it would be very sensitive, classified, if not top secret information about an attack that has not yet happened.

PANETTA: Jake, this is the height of irresponsibility, particularly by the Secretary of Defense. Because why? Because that information on targeting and weapons and on timing, if that gets revealed to our adversaries, and it could be when you're -- when you're basically using a cell phone to chat about this stuff, if that information got out to -- to Yemen, and they were able to essentially stop that mission, but more importantly, they could attack those ships that were launching the attack, and that would cost innocent men, women, and children's uniforms their lives. This is dangerous to do this kind of irresponsible handling of highly classified information. TAPPER: Former Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta, thank you, sir. Appreciate your time and expertise as always.

PANETTA: Good to be with you.

TAPPER: Some breaking news just in, Harvard University just launched a lawsuit against the Trump administration over funding cuts and freezes after protests deemed anti-Semitic last spring and the Trump administration cutting off the school's federal funding.

[17:38:16]

And new reaction from President Trump just in, after the U.S. Supreme Court shut down his use of a wartime act to deport undocumented immigrants. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, President Trump reacting this evening to the order from the U.S. Supreme Court from over the weekend. This order threatens his administration's use, at least in the short term, of the Alien Enemies Act to deport migrants. President Trump is accusing the courts of being intimidated by the left.

And the President claims this would take -- it would take hundreds of thousands of trials to afford due process to the undocumented migrants that his administration is removing from the United States. Steve Vladeck is a CNN Supreme Court analyst and a professor at Georgetown University Law Center. He joins me now. Steve, good to see you.

So, the court allowed Trump to utilize the Alien Enemies Act, signed into law by John Adams in 1798, for deportations earlier this month. Then we got this late night temporary pause over the weekend in order that didn't really explain much about the reasoning. What does it say and how do you think we got here?

STEVE VLADECK, CNN SUPREME COURT ANALYST: Yes, I mean, so Jake, back two weeks ago when the Supreme Court at least temporarily greenlit some of these removals, one of the things that the majority said was that the administration has to provide notice and it has to provide a meaningful opportunity to each individual detainee to contest the government's case against them, basically to contest whether they are who the government says they are.

Jake, the order we got over the -- over the weekend, I think really reflects the Supreme Court's concern that its instructions from two weeks ago aren't being followed. And so, it's not saying Trump administration, you can't do this. It's saying you got to do this in a particular way and you haven't been doing it that way thus far.

TAPPER: Trump praised Justice Alito in that post I just showed for his dissension. Justice Thomas also joined Alito in the dissent. You published a piece about the dissent today. You write, quote, it would be bad enough if Alito's dissent were merely tone deaf, but its effort to find something wrong with the majority's intervention smacks of an attempt not to take the law where it leads him, but to try to manufacture a justification for sitting on his hands while even more folks are wrongly removed to a Salvadoran prison from which it is proving increasingly difficult to get anyone back, unquote. What -- what legal flaws are you referring to that Alito is showing in his dissent?

[17:45:01]

VLADECK: Yes, I mean, so, Jake, the dissent as the seven bullet points that try to suggest that maybe the Supreme Court didn't have the power to intervene late Friday night, it clearly did. And there have been a series of interventions in similar contexts where Alito has joined the majority, supported the intervention. Justice Alito also, Jake, complained that the litigants, the ACLU hadn't given the lower courts enough time to rule.

But, you know, Jake, in the circumstances we had, where you literally had a busload of migrants being transported to the Abilene Airport, you know, this really was an emergency. And so I think the notion that in the normal case, the court should go slowly, in the normal case, the party should exhaust all of their options, you know, that's all well and good. I think what was clear about this case, Jake, is it wasn't a normal one. And that's what a majority of the Supreme Court appeared to endorse late -- late Friday night.

TAPPER: Turning to breaking news and the fight between the White House and Harvard University, Harvard is suing the Trump administration for the freeze on funding to the university. Harvard is arguing basically that the administration is overreaching. So what happens now?

VLADECK: Yes, so this is a lawsuit that was just filed today, Jake, in the federal district court in Boston. Harvard's complaint basically alleges a couple of different theories, including that the withholding of funding basically in retaliation for Harvard's refusal to abide by the administration's demands is a violation of the First Amendment, that the government's not allowed to basically coerce private institutions, educational institutions into doing its bidding by imposing a particular viewpoint. That case is going to go forward now in federal court in Boston.

And Jake, I mean, Harvard's got a lot of law on their side. Jake, to note, the complaint in this case is signed by a bunch of very prominent conservative lawyers, suggesting that this dispute really is one that's going to cross the ideological barrier as well.

TAPPER: Well, it's a real slippery slope, right? I mean, Trump does this to Harvard. What's President, you know, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez going to do for a conservative school?

VLADECK: And that's -- and this is why I think the Supreme Court really, Jake, in a series of cases going back to the 1960s, has been adamant about two principles that are both at issue in this case. The first is academic freedom and the idea that governments should not be interfering with the curricular and structural choices that private universities especially are making.

But, Jake, second, just the notion that the government should not be demanding as a condition of receiving federal funds that any recipient, a private university, a public university, a non-profit organization, adopt a particular viewpoint, because then you don't really have the freedom of speech. You have the freedom of speech the government approves of. And those are just not the same thing.

TAPPER: Steve Vladeck, thanks so much. Always good to have you.

[17:47:50]

CNN is live in Buenos Aires, the hometown of the late Pope Francis. What the reaction to the Pontiff's death looks like there. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Continuing with our Faith Lead, Pope Francis was the very first pope from South America. Indeed, he was the first non-European pope since the Syrian-born Gregory III in the 700s. But in the dozen years of Pope Francis's papacy, he never went home to Argentina for a visit, not once. CNN's Cecilia Dominguez is in Buenos Aires. Cecilia, how are country -- how was countrymen and -- and countrywomen remembering the pope today?

CECILIA DOMINGUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hello Jake, how are you? We are here working at the Metropolitan Cathedral in Buenos Aires, where thousands of mourners have gathered today to pay tribute, to pray in silence, and also to say goodbye to Pope Francis.

This is the entrance of the cathedral. In 10 minutes, the last mass of the day, the fourth mass of the day, will start. And then the cathedral will close the doors until tomorrow, because they told us that they want the cathedral to be open almost all day to let people say goodbye to Pope Francis.

As you can see, there are candles. Many people have brought candles, flowers. They have also brought so many pictures and football badges. You know, Pope Francis used to say in his interviews that he was a big football fan. He was a supporter of San Lorenzo, which is the club, the football club, that today in a statement said that Pope Francis was one of their biggest supporters. So this is what's happening in the entrance of the cathedral.

As I said in 10 minutes, the last mass of the day, the fourth one, will start in just a couple of minutes.

TAPPER: Pope Francis visited multiple South American countries over the years, but he never went home to Argentina. Do we know why?

DOMINGUEZ: We don't exactly know why, Jake, but we've talked to many people that knew Pope Francis very well, and they said that Pope Francis is the world leader, that he was -- didn't want to prioritize Argentina over other countries that's why he didn't come. Pope Francis, in many interviews, said that there was a plan to come to Argentina, that he wanted to come, but that he couldn't do it, that he hoped to come, but finally he -- he couldn't come. That's why many people are very sad about that. [17:55:11]

TAPPER: All right, Cecilia Dominguez in Buenos Aires, Argentina, thanks so much.

A live look now at St. Peter's Square in Vatican City. It's almost midnight there, yet as you can see, there are -- are crowds that have gathered, showing up to the very spot where the late Pope Francis greeted followers just yesterday. CNN's Clarissa Ward is also at St. Peter's Square. She's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. Our breaking news tonight, Remembering Pope Francis, who died today just hours after delivering his Easter blessing. The life and legacy of the man who pushed to modernize the Catholic Church. And in his final public speech, called for peace around the globe. We're live outside the Vatican as we learn new details about the Pope's requests for his funeral.

[18:00:03]