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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump, Bessent Soften Tone On Trade War With China; Rep. Mike Lawler, (R-NY), Is Interviewed About Tariffs, Pete Hegseth; GOP Sen. Cramer: Hegseth Needs More Help Around Him; FDA Says It Will Phase Out Petroleum-Based Food Dyes. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired April 23, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Ruling in favor of pop star Katy in 2024. Now their high court will decide who gets to claim the name Katy Perry in Australia. On her shop's website. Australian Katy Perry calls this a David and Goliath case. OK, fair enough.

Jake Tapper standing by for "The Lead" right now. Hi, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: You always bring the firework, Kasie.

HUNT: Look at you. I gave you a whole minute to come up with that. I'm very impressed.

TAPPER: It's actually firework. I was corrected by Gene Sperling. I was going to say fireworks, but the economic expert corrected me, firework.

HUNT: Tell him thank you.

TAPPER: Singular. Thanks so much, Kasie.

HUNT: Have a good show.

TAPPER: We'll see you back in "The Arena" tomorrow.

[17:00:36]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Is the president making a major reversal on the trade war with China? The Lead starts right now. Opportunity for a big deal. That's the word from the White House today as the president and his Treasury secretary signal a potential backing off of the stunning potential 145 percent tariffs on China. Might this be a result of the pleas from the CEOs of Walmart, Target, Home Depot and Lowe's, all of whom just visited the White House and warned of rising costs and empty shelves?

Plus, the White House peace plan presented to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy that critics say could have been written by Putin? Vice President J.D. Vance warned Zelenskyy, take it or we're gone. Stark words from President Trump also coming up.

And CNN live in Rome as scores of people line up to get a glimpse of the late Pope Francis before Saturday's funeral. We'll take you there.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. We're starting with our breaking news and our money lead. We are standing by right now to hear from President Trump. He is expected to sign several executive orders in the Oval Office.

If he takes questions, he is bound to be asked about his trade war with China if he allows actual journalists in the room. In just the last hour, New York and 11 other states filed a lawsuit against the Trump administration claiming their so called illegal tariffs will slow economic growth and raise unemployment. This all comes as we've heard the president strike a different tone over the past 24 hours.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are going to have a fair deal with China. It's going to be fair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you talking to them actively now?

TRUMP: Actively. Everything's active. Everybody wants to be a part of what we're doing. Now the White House insists President Trump is not softening his stance. But just yesterday, the president said he would lower tariffs on China, not quite to zero, but quote, "substantially."

This attitude shift did not go unnoticed in China. The hashtag quote, "Trump chickened out," trended on Chinese social media in Chinese presumably, racking up more than 100 million views. Another shift in tone came today from U.S. Treasury Secretary of State -- U.S. Secretary -- Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: I wish to be clear America first does not mean America alone. To the contrary, it is a call for deeper collaboration and mutual respect among trade partners.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: America first must never mean America alone. Where have I heard that before?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, TREASURY SECRETARY: America first must never mean America alone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: OK. Biden's Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen 4 years ago this month. This new messaging from Bessent comes after Trump met with four major company CEOs Monday in the Oval Office. And sources tell CNN that the CEOs of Walmart, Target, Home Depot and Lowe's painted a grim economic picture for the president, including that store shelves across America could soon be empty. The CEO of Walmart told President Trump he's already seeing a disruption to the U.S. supply chain, something his advisers had been telling him would result in even more market turmoil.

Now, this afternoon, the stock market responded positively to the President's new message with the Dow, S&P 500 and NASDAQ all closing up, although down from the day's highs. We're going to start today with CNN's Kaitlan Collins at the White House.

And Kaitlan, as President Trump strikes this new tone, just as of this afternoon, China says they're still fighting back.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And they're also just waiting to see what's going to happen here, Jake. Obviously they watch everything President Trump says when -- with regards to China very closely, including the softening of his tone yesterday inside the Oval Office about bringing those tariffs down substantially. And today we heard from a Foreign Ministry spokesperson for China who said if a negotiated solution is truly what the U.S. wants here, it should stop threatening and blackmailing China and seek dialogue based on equality, respect and mutual benefit. Obviously, that is not how the United States sees what is playing out here right now.

But we did hear some really interesting comments from the Treasury secretary today on what this could look like if those tariffs are brought down. As the president was teasing yesterday, and we've seen multiple reports to that effect, some including numbers of what that could look like. He said he doesn't believe this is going to be a one off, that it'll just be the United States moving first to bring its tariffs down. He was essentially arguing it would have to be something that is mutual, that is being done by the United States and China for their retaliation to these tariffs, bringing that down.

[17:05:14]

And he kind of argued, Jake, that essentially that needs to happen to get these talks started, to see that movement happening. Because you heard the president there telling reporters today talks with China are very active. But obviously we have not seen a high level conversation yet between President Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping that we've been told of by the White House.

TAPPER: Axios reported today about an alleged shouting match between Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent and Elon Musk, one that happened within earshot of President Trump. White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt was asked about this today.

COLLINS: Yes. And Jake, just to give you some background on that, of course we knew there had been a disagreement between them, a major one last week after there was an acting IRS commissioner who was named by President Trump, but it was only on the job for really a matter of hours, about three days before he was then removed. And instead a deputy of Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, was put in that place as the acting IRS commissioner instead. That was because that was a move that was largely undertaken by Elon Musk, supported by Elon Musk and some congressional Republicans to be fair, while Scott Bessent was out of town, he was out of the country. He was traveling on a business trip. And so we heard from the press secretary earlier today when she was asked about this report about actually devolving into a screaming match between Elon Musk and the Treasury secretary and she did not deny it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, there are disagreements amongst the president's staff and Cabinet sometimes, but we think that's part of the healthy debate process. And everybody knows that ultimately President Trump is the decision maker.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: Now, Jake, keep that in mind, obviously, with what we heard from Elon Musk himself yesterday, who said after that major profit drop for Tesla that was reported on that early earnings call, he said he's going to start spending a, a lot less time here at the White House starting in May. Obviously there are certainly several Cabinet secretaries that he has feuded with and struggled with when it comes to the power balance between their departments and they are in Senate confirmed positions and what he is trying to do. Obviously some people would welcome that, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kaitlan Collins at the White House, thank you. And look out for Kaitlan in just a few hours on her show, "The Source" with Kaitlan Collins, that's tonight at 9:00 p.m. Eastern only here on CNN.

Let's bring in CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich now.

And Vanessa, the market closed up today but did dip from its high midday. How are investors feeling?

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS & POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, listen, any day that the market closes up in the green is a good day on Wall Street. But investors have told me over the past couple of days that they've really been tracking two storylines. One, what is happening with the trade war and what is the fate of Jerome Powell, the head of the Federal Reserve. And they've received encouraging news on both fronts, both from the Treasury Secretary and from the president. Just yesterday, the president said that he was to terminate Jerome Powell, the head of the Federal Reserve.

Investors were very worried about the Fed's independence and sort of the independence of the head of the Federal Reserve himself. And then today we heard from the president that he is essentially looking to deescalate this trade war with China. That was also welcome news on Wall Street. But as you mentioned, the Wall Street and the Dow closed down 400 points off the session high for the day. Maybe investors were enjoying their profits a little bit.

And investors told me that just as much as they encouraging news from the president and his cabinet, that could change very quickly. But just look at CNN's fear and greed index. We are in fear territory right now. And I bring that up only because, Jake, for the past several weeks we've been in extreme fear. We haven't been in the fear space since March 27.

But that does not erase the $6.5 trillion in losses that the stock market has seen since February and the $2.5 trillion in losses that we've seen since the beginning of April when President Trump really ratcheted up this trade war.

And I want to read you something from Greg McBride. He's the chief financial analyst at Bankrate. This is how he kind of summed up how the markets and investors are feeling right now. He told me that, "A softer tone about the Federal Reserve is welcome news to investors and the market has responded to that. Turning down the heat in the trade war with China is nice to hear, but it will ultimately need to be followed up by action.

Where the rubber meets the road is in the details of an eventual trade agreement. Until then, uncertainty will continue to hang over the economy and financial markets."

So Jake, there you go. This is really a sign that today was a good positive day on Wall Street. But that could change at any moment. We know the president and his cabinet have come out and been encouraging in one moment and then change their mind in another moment. And Wall Street all day and really all week and months has been reacting to that volatility. Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Vanessa Yurkevich, thank you so much.

Let's bring in Gene Sperling. He served as the White House American Rescue coordinator under the Biden administration and as the director of the National Economic Council under Presidents Clinton and Obama. Good to see you, Gene. Thanks for being here.

[17:10:05]

GENE SPERLING, WHITE HOUSE AMERICAN RESCUE COORDINATOR, BIDEN ADMINISTRATION: Thanks, Jake.

TAPPER: So we rarely -- we rarely see President Trump back down per se, but today we definitely saw him soften his tone and his words when it comes to a trade war with China. And we've seen him going back and forth and back and forth on this trade war the whole time. Why -- what do you think led to his recent change?

SPERLING: Well, I think they're living with the stock market being down. As just said, it's still down 11 percent, 12 percent even with an uptick day. I think that what you've seen happen is for those of us who follow the economics, we know that the trajectory and the projection has gone down. I mean, it's stunning. Consumer expectations have gone from 2.6 percent of inflation to 6.7 percent.

We know consumer confidence is now lower than any time since '80, lower than 9/11, lower than the financial crisis. We know all those things. But I think what he heard today is the real pain is actually going to hit. It's not just that JP Morgan said there was a 20 percent chance of recession and there's going to be 60 percent. But people are going to start saying, wow, this product we buy, the price is up, this factory, these shelves are being -- are empty.

The reality of people not visiting the United States for tourism over the summer is going to affect real life jobs. And I think he probably heard that very real. And I think it's encouraging any time the Trump administration starts showing that they're focused on the economy and what the real impacts. But I want to say that if you look at the commentary, if you look at the discussions we've had where we've seen things that usually only happen to developing countries with shaky inflation records, like people fleeing equities and bonds and the dollar at the same time, those are about fundamental confidence in the competence and seriousness of our economic policymaking. So I think the market can go up and any time looks like he's listening to the Secretary of Treasury or somebody makes a positive comment.

But in the end, the question is, are you going to see serious policy from President Trump or is the United States now going to be like on this constant roller coaster? And just look at how the news is being reported right now. Everybody is saying the president of United States backed down.

TAPPER: Right.

SPERLING: That he got played.

TAPPER: Which he hates.

SPERLING: Which he hates. Now if I were him, I'd say -- if I were adviser, I'd say, Mr. President, don't worry about it. Proofs in the pudding.

TAPPER: Right.

SPERLING: But I don't know. Can this president take it? Can he not always respond in a way? And the more he does that, the more the U.S. brand, the more the thing that we started with Alexander Hamilton, our belief in the rule of law and our word --

TAPPER: Yes.

SPERLING: -- that is hurt. And I don't think you get out of volatility until you have a fundamental change --

TAPPER: Do you --

SPERLING: -- in economic seriousness from them.

TAPPER: Do you think that the meeting with the CEOs on Monday, the CEOs of Lowe's and Walmart and the rest, and where they basically said our prices are going to go up and our shelves are going to be empty, do you think that had an impact on him?

SPERLING: I think it had to. I mean, I think what's thrown markets off a lot is that he doesn't seem to have been operating on the normal economic or political constraints. We all thought that the president wouldn't handle people going down 11 -- stock market going down 11 percent just on his own policies. TAPPER: Yes.

SPERLING: We would think that as a person who's been good enough politically to win an election twice, he would know the one thing you don't do is raise prices on American consumers. So I think one of the things that's hurt confidence is he doesn't seem to be acting rationally, either economically or politically. But I still believe everybody operates by some constraints. And I think the reality of the major places people shop saying, yes, prices are going up, it's going to get real. And that fury that helped you become president is now going to be turned on you.

I have to believe that had some effect. My question is, is it going to be lasting? Is going to overcome his style of shooting off the cuff and just caring more about his personal persona than the economy?

TAPPER: Yes.

SPERLING: That is the question.

TAPPER: Gene Sperling, thank you so much. Appreciate it, sir.

We're monitoring President Trump's comments in the Oval Office. The president has also been vocal today about his frustration with Ukraine amidst its war with Russia, its defensive war with Russia. How close is President Trump to walking away from trying to negotiate a peace deal? Could he force Ukraine to give Putin what he wants, a whole bunch of Ukrainian territory? The moves within the Trump administration that may hint at what's really going on?

[17:14:52] Coming up, I also will speak with all of this -- about all of this with the House Republican who has often sided with Trump in a number of important positions. A lot coming up. We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our world lead Trump versus Zelenskyy, round two. President Trump accusing Ukrainian President Zelenskyy of, quote, "inflammatory statements" today in a lengthy social media post after Zelenskyy reiterated he would not concede any territory to Russia, including Crimea, which was annexed in 2014 during the Obama administration. Trump's post came just hours after his vice president, J.D. Vance said Europe may need to get the deal over the finish line and suggested freezing Ukraine's territorial lines where they are today. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh is in London with new reporting on all this.

And, Nick, European leaders tell you that President Trump still does very much want a peace deal.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL SECURITY EDITOR: Yes, certainly. A European official I spoke to said that this latest bout of pressure really seems to be about the Trump administration trying to honor its belief it could get a peace deal done in the first hundred days.

[17:20:02] They've got about a week left. And we've heard in past days Secretary of State Marco Rubio saying that they might potentially walk if there wasn't some sort of deal coming forward. Supposed to have been today progress in London, the United States Secretary of State Rubio himself, Steve Wyckoff, the presidential envoy to Russia and part of this conflict as well. We're all supposed to have got together that meeting significantly downgraded and lower level officials indeed met. And in fact after it and indeed after that Truth Social post by President Trump, Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelenskyy said today was a day in which emotions had run high.

And so clearly this issue of the recognition of Crimea as being part of Russia, it's not entirely clear if the U.S. would like to see Ukraine do that. It's a red line. Zelenskyy said he won't tolerate or contemplate, it's not even allowed by the Ukrainian constitution or whether this is really the U.S. saying it might recognize Crimea as part of Russia as part of a concession to get Moscow closer to some kind of deal. It seems to have stirred up tempers and I think increased tension around exactly what can be achieved in that Truth Social post.

What we don't actually know is what is required of Ukraine at this stage. Publicly, that's not been made clear. Trump wants Zelenskyy to get it done. We just don't know what the it is yet, Jake.

TAPPER: On that Truth Social post from President Trump, he also said, quote, "Nobody is asking Zelenskyy to recognize Crimea as Russian territory. But if he wants Crimea, why didn't they fight for it 11 years ago when it was handed over to Russia without a shot being fired," unquote. Now you reported from Ukraine in 2014, is that what happened?

WALSH: Yes. Just to point out Zelenskyy was a T.V. producer back then. A very different global political climate and in fact a bit of a vacuum of power, frankly in Kyiv when little green men, the Russia said had nothing to do with it, marched into Crimea in 2014. The U.S. Europe weren't willing to provide arms to get into the fight to assist Ukraine. Ukraine's army was in tatters. And so yes, frankly, without a shot for the better part of it in 2014, Russian troops moved in to an area which in the 50s had under the Soviet Union been part of Russia and handed over to Ukraine under the Soviet government.

Then only recently in larger history changed hands. But it was such a different world then, frankly. The west not willing to confront Russia, who they'd had a better relationship with. Massive sanctions against Russia after that particular moment. But it's an exceptionally difficult world.

Different world now we find with the full scale invasion of 2022 buy Russia of their neighbors. So very different times. Hard to compare, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nick Paton Walsh in London, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

An extraordinary moment is happening in Rome right this minute as thousands of people are lining up to see the late Pope Francis. CNN is there. The experience for CNN's Clarissa Ward when she entered St. Peter's Basilica today for a viewing, she'll tell you that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:27:24]

TAPPER: In our faith lead today, Italian Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni was just one of many dignitaries who showed up to pay her respects to Pope Francis as lines of mourners snaked around St. Peter's Basilica where Pope Francis is lying in state ahead of his funeral on Saturday. CNN Chief International Correspondent Clarissa Ward is live for us in St. Peter's Square.

And Clarissa, we're moments away from the basilica closing for the night. What are you seeing there?

CLARISSA WARD, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, it's pretty extraordinary. If anything, the crowds seem to be even larger at the moment. You can see behind me the line. And if we just pan across here, Scott McWhinnie could show you that that line just keeps going and going and going. And all of these people are desperately hoping that they will be able to get into the basilica to get a glimpse of Pope Francis' casket as he lies in state for the next two days.

In fact, just about an hour ago, the basilica is supposed to close at midnight, and they had opened up a couple of roads. And there was suddenly this crush of people, hundreds and hundreds of people, just started running towards St Peter's here, desperately hoping that they could get their place in line, that they could make it on time to get inside the basilica tonight before the doors close. There are people who are coming from all over the world for all different reasons. Some, it's a matter of curiosity, a chance to witness something historic. For others, it's something far more profound or more personal.

But for all of them, clearly a real dedication to stand among the crowds for hours and hours and just be a part of this extraordinary moment, Jake.

TAPPER: Clarissa, earlier today, you went inside the basilica. Tell us what you saw. What you -- what were your impressions? What was that like?

WARD: Well, Jake, obviously this was an extraordinary privilege to be able to go inside and witness this moment, this vast, majestic, beautiful basilica with vaulted ceilings and stunning frescoes. And then this long column of people solemnly, quietly filing their way towards the open casket of Pope Francis. There were hymns softly being sung by a choir. There were prayers being delivered. And it was really a moment just to stand still and to look and observe and see the people and see the emotion.

Some of them were very clearly moved. We saw a number of women getting down on their knees and praying, some people weeping. A lot of people had brought their families. We saw them with children, hoisted up on their shoulders, giving their children this first glimpse of history.

[17:30:12]

And then, of course, because we live in the world that we live in, Jake, a lot of people with their cell phones up in the air trying just to capture this historic moment, Jake.

Clarissa Ward, just outside St. Peter's Square. Thank you so much.

Pope Francis, the first ever Latin American pope, is also being honored closer to his hometown in the capital of Argentina, Buenos Aires, today. Before becoming pontiff, Pope Francis was an avid fan of football, or what we call soccer here in the United States. And CNN's David Culver joins us now live from Buenos Aires.

David, the pope's local hometown soccer club is saying goodbye to one of their most famous fans.

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONA CORRESPONDENT: And the club president, Jake, has said that if there was anywhere that Pope Francis would want to be so as to mourn such a great loss, this is the place. This is essentially the spiritual birthplace, as they've described it, of the San Lorenzo Soccer Club. And you got to remember that name, San Lorenzo. And this is the namesake, Father Lorenzo.

And the reason this is interesting here is because Father Lorenzo is somebody who created this refuge for children. Children who had nowhere to go brought him in essentially off the street and mix their lives of academics with sport. Sports were incredibly important for Pope Francis as well.

And we're going to see here in the next hour or so, you can see a few people are gathering, but you're going to have some fans of San Lorenzo soccer team, as well as some players who are going to be coming here for a mass and a remembrance ceremony that they're going to be having. But Pope Francis spoke about his love for soccer. In fact, even in his book "Hope," he talked about being a goalkeeper. That was the position that while he was ill as a teen, he loved to play. And he said it taught him to just deal with things coming at him from all angles.

So it was very symbolic in life. And he also said, Jake, that sports are something that are incredibly important for young people today. He was always really worried about the youth being isolated and caught up in a virtual world. And he said when they had sports, it puts them -- especially team sports, with other people socializing and puts them, as he would say, out in the world.

TAPPER: David, you actually saw a copy of Pope Francis membership card with the team, which has a pretty remarkable story itself.

CULVER: Yes, this is really, really special. And people are talking about this a lot right now. And you can see what this membership card looks like. I mean, it shows you just how big of a fan he was, Jake. And this is what the club president had to say about the card as they've now started to look at it with a different perspective. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSCAR LUCCHINI, CARETAKER, CHAPEL OF SAN LORENZO DE ALMAGRO SOCCER CLUB (trough translator): Today we gave him his membership card. He said he would accept it, but added, I'll pay the fee, he said. He paid his membership fees for the San Lorenzo Club religiously. We handed him the card in person and it had the membership number 88235. Now he has passed away at the age of 88 at 2:35 in the morning, Argentina time.

So we don't know if it's a blessing, a coincidence or something he sent us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CULVER: And that's something a lot of folks here are talking about. That symbolism. Jake, they've talked about naming the new stadium for San Lorenzo Papa Francisco. He, in his book said it's an idea he doesn't really like. That's the humility coming out of him.

But it's something that the club president said they're actively considering. So it just shows you how big of a fan. Perhaps not to liken you to the Pope, Jake, but maybe the Eagles equivalent, San Lorenzo.

TAPPER: All right. I don't know what to say about that. David Culver in Buenos Aires, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Moments ago, President Trump signed a number of executive orders on education, several relating to universities trying to regulate their accreditation process. The president also noted too many K through 12 schools are focused on diversity, he said, instead of discipline.

[17:33:56]

What we're hearing from the president in the Oval Office next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: President Trump has signed a number of executive orders dealing with education and right now he's taking some questions in the Oval Office from reporters. Let's take a listen.

TRUMP: We spent -- t was the most expensive thing ever built by our country in history. I'm talking relative dollars. We've never built anything so expensive. I think it was the equivalent of $1.7 billion. And we've never built anything like that.

We built -- we built a lot of things, but never so expensive. Then we started building other things. We had a lot of money to do it all based on foreign countries coming in and paying U.S. tariffs. And we're doing that again. And I think we're going to make so much that we're going to be able to reduce taxes in this country by a lot.

And we're also going to treat those countries very fairly. But if we don't make a deal, which is possible, we're going to just set the price because you remember, they have to come in -- they want to come in here and they want to do business with the United States. So we want to set a fair price and we'll do that. We're going to be very fair, but we'll set a fair price. And then they can make a determination as to whether or not they want to do business with the United States.

And I think most of them will, and I think we're going to treat them very fairly.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Were you worried about -- were you worried about what the 145 percent tariffs were doing to small businesses here in the U.S. --

TRUMP: No, no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that why you're bringing them down?

TRUMP: No, no. No, I haven't brought it down. I haven't brought it, still 145. I haven't brought it down. I said it's a high tariff.

It is a high tariff, but I haven't brought it down. It basically means China is not doing any business with us, essentially because it's a very high number. So when you add that to the price of a product, you know, a lot of those products aren't going to sell.

[17:40:04]

But China's not doing any business. They were doing -- they were doing $1.1 trillion. Think of that, $1.1 trillion. You know what that is? And it was just very unfair to us.

And were doing very little, relatively very little with them. It was a one sided, very one sided. But we get along. I get along very well with President Xi and I hope we can make a deal. Otherwise, we'll set a price and hopefully they'll come here and they'll contribute.

And if they don't, that's OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On your trip to Rome, there's a lot of leaders attending the Pope's funeral who also said they'd like to meet with you while you're there. Do you have any meetings set up while you're (inaudible)?

TRUMP: Yes, I do. I have a lot of meetings set up. I don't know if I can do it. Do you want to help me out, fellas? I got a lot of meetings.

I got every leader in the world which tells you that we have a good product. It's called the United States of America and it's great. And these people know about it better than anybody in this room. But we have a great -- we have a great place and it should be a lot greater. And that's what we're going to do.

We're going to make it greater than ever before. It's very simple.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who are you going to be meeting with? President Zelenskyy?

TRUMP: Well, I have a lot of meetings set up. Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And are you bringing anyone with you in the U.S. delegation to the funeral, like Secretary Rubio or a former president?

TRUMP: We have a couple of people coming. We will announce it probably this evening or tomorrow. First Lady is going and some people are coming with me from staff. But --

TAPPER: All right, President Trump taking some questions there in the Oval Office.

Joining us now, Republican from New York, Congressman Mike Lawler, who's also on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Let's start with what's been going on with tariffs, if we can. Congressman, the President signaling something of a U turn on the astronomical tariffs proposed on China today. This comes after he met Monday with retail CEOs who warned of higher prices and empty shelves. President Trump, generally speaking, seems more prone to digging in than backing down. What do you think happened here exactly?

REP. MIKE LAWLER (R-NY): Well, look, as I've said from the very beginning, I think the tariffs are meant to be a short term negotiating tool to negotiate with countries like Japan, like Korea, like India, like the E.U., Canada, Mexico, and yes, China to get better and fairer trade deals for the United States, to bring down barriers to entry to U.S. goods in those countries, as well as to eliminate things like price controls, you know, that Europe has on U.S. prescription drugs, which by the way means that we are paying higher drug costs to subsidize Europe. So I think the objective was always in large measure to force renegotiation and get better trade deals. Obviously, and I've met with many folks, including, you know, economists from Deutsche Bank, for instance, earlier this week, as well as retail giants like Walmart last week.

Of course, there is concern about some of the short term, you know, challenges as a result of this back and forth. But I think the long term objective here, especially if the president is able to get agreements, and we saw yesterday the vice president speak out with respect to India, if we're able to get these agreements turned around quickly within the next 30 days or so and you get the tax reconciliation bill done, as I've said from the beginning, the economy is going to take off and that will be extremely good for every American.

TAPPER: Let's talk about Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth. Your fellow Republican Congressman Don Bacon, a former Air Force general, told me yesterday that if he were president, he would fire Secretary Hegseth particularly because of the sharing of classified information and then denying that it ever occurred, denying it was a problem. Earlier today, Republican Senator Kevin Cramer suggested that Hegseth, a former Fox News weekend cohost, needs some more expert help around him. What do you think? Do you agree with either one of those Republicans? LAWLER: Well, as I said from the very beginning when that first story came out, any classified or sensitive information or material that is shared or discussed on an application like Signal is wrong. It should never be discussed outside of a classified setting. All of us as members of Congress have to go in the skiff when we discuss classified or sensitive information. And that is, of course, how it should be.

[17:45:00]

So I think obviously the White House admitted that when it first occurred. I think obviously all proper precaution needs to be, you know, taken to make sure that that does not happen. Again, with respect to those around him, obviously we've seen some layoffs and terminations over the past week. Individuals who were leaking information, you know, out of the Department of Defense. Of course, he needs to make sure that the staff around him is not only, you know, working in the best interest of the Department of Defense, but that they have the skills and qualifications necessary to do the job.

When I look at the Defense Department and thus far the actions that have been taken by the department with respect to missions like in Yemen, they've gone very well. And I think that speaks of course, to the strength of our military and our military professionals. And we need to continue to make sure that the resources and support are there to execute the missions properly.

TAPPER: To be clear, none of the individuals fired have been proven to have leaked anything. The only person we know who has sent out sensitive information that reached people not authorized to get it is Secretary Hegseth.

LAWLER: Well, again, obviously we don't have all the information and neither does CNN. But I think the fact that you had multiple people terminated speaks volumes to the fact that they lost the trust of the secretary and the department. So ultimately we need to make sure that the personnel there are there to work in the best interest of the department and the American people. That's why you're in government. That's why you're in these positions of power.

And just, you know, as somebody who's been both staffer and an elected official, I always find it jarring when people are out there leaking and or obviously engaged in the backbiting after being terminated. It serves nobody but themselves. My view ultimately is the objective here is to make sure you have a department that is focused on its core mission, which is the defense of the United States of America.

TAPPER: Republican Congressman from New York, Mike Lawler, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

As President Trump sets this new tone on global tariffs, what we're learning today of several cases of him potentially playing politics with money here at home. Money intended to help Americans recover from disasters such as hurricanes and tornadoes. That story coming up.

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[17:52:11]

TAPPER: In our health lead, the Food and Drug Administration announced plans to phase out the use of petroleum based dyes in the U.S. food supply due to health concerns, as we covered yesterday. Here is what the FDA commissioner said about the decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MARTY MAKARY, FDA COMMISSIONER: We are simply asking American food companies to replace petroleum based food dyes with natural ingredients for American children, just as they already do for children in other countries. American children deserve good health.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Yesterday we asked you to share your questions about these dyes. So let's bring back our Chief Medical Correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta for some answers.

Sanjay, so Matilda from Lafayette, Colorado wants to know what is the difference between Red Dye number three and Red Dye number 40 and why is only one of them outlawed?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: So Red Dye 3 is the one that I think a lot of people have heard about some 30 years ago when it was authorized. There was concerns already at that time that there was these links to potential cancers in animals. That alone should have sort of prohibited the authorization because there's a law that basically says if something has an association with cancer in humans or animals, it should not be authorized. And yet here we are 30 years later. So it was -- it was banned. The authorization was revoked during the last administration.

That is Red Dye number three. With Red Dye number 40, there's less evidence and less convincing evidence around links to cancer. So it's sort of been out there for some time. But in California, they banned it because of potential links to neurobehavioral problems with children. And as you just heard from the FDA commissioner, they're now asking food companies to remove that dye as well.

We'll see how the food companies respond to that.

TAPPER: Sanjay, your old friend Lulu from Winter Haven, Florida, asks, why does the U.S. continue to use dyes and additives that Europe has banned?

GUPTA: I think there's two answers to this, perhaps a little philosophical. One is that in the United States, I think the evidence really is what is the cause and what is the effect? Establishing cause and effect sort of relationships. And it's tough to establish a cause and effect relationship in terms of harm from these food dyes because they're everywhere, Jake. So is it the food dye?

Is it social media? Is it smartphones? Is it some other environmental toxin that may be causing some of these problems, specifically with neurobehavioral problems, for example? They don't know. So cause and effect is tough to establish.

In other countries, they focus more on what is known as the precautionary principle. Look, we don't know for sure that there's a problem, they say, in these other countries, but we want to be cautious. So that's why they got rid of a lot of these food dyes in other countries. Many countries in Europe, Canada as well. And I think that's what they're trying to do here in the United States.

[17:55:08]

TAPPER: All right, Lulu, I hope that answered your question. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

We're still monitoring President Trump's comments in the Oval Office. He just had much more to say about his escalated trade war and setting tariffs at 145 percent on Chinese imports. What he just said about China's President Xi Jinping, that's next.

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TAPPER: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour, some of America's biggest CEOs warning President Trump directly that store shelves could go bare and prices could go up amid his unprecedented tariffs. Not to mention his attacks on the Federal Reserve chair. Now, the White House is backtracking on both issues, but is the damage already done? What President Trump just said about these issues in the Oval Office?

Plus, we're heading to West Virginia for our series on how Trump's tariffs are affecting small business owners --