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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Responds to Putin's Kyiv Assault, Vladimir, Stop; Trade Uncertainty Expected to Drive Up Prices for Consumers; Court Document Shows Migrants Given 12 Hours to Say If They Will Challenge removal Under Wartime Act. Vatican: 90,000+ Have Paid Respects Since Wednesday Morning; Posters Of Holocaust Survivors Ripped Down In NYC. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired April 24, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, alarm from some US allies at President Trump's plan to let Russia keep most of the land that it seized from Ukraine. President Trump pressed on those peace negotiations today insisted that he's putting, quote, a lot of pressure on Putin and that, quote, things will happen if Russia keeps up its attacks on Ukraine.

Plus, are more tariffs on the way? President Trump says they could be coming in as soon as two or three weeks, but what does that mean for your wallet, your retirement at a time when so many people are worried about rising prices? We're breaking down the numbers.

And nearly 100,000 people have lined up so far to pay their final respects to Pope Francis. What the Vatican is revealing today about his final resting place and the personal stories of those who knew the Pope before he became the head of the church.

Well, Lead Tonight, horror in Ukraine's capital of Kyiv, rescuers still searching through rubble after the deadliest strike on the capital in nine months by Russia, as President Trump's frustration with Russian leader, Vladimir Putin boils over posting after the attack, quote, not necessary and very bad timing. Vladimir, stop.

CNN's Jeff Zeleny is at the White House and CNN's Fred Pleitgen is in Moscow. And, Jeff, you asked President Trump about that post.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, that frustration certainly has been clear, and that post was unusual in terms of its personal nature, but also the fact that the U.S. president is calling out Vladimir Putin, something he rarely, rarely does. So, we asked President Trump about that today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: Mr. President, this morning in a Truth Social post, you used the words, Vladimir, stop. That seemed like a slightly different message, a personal message. What is your level of frustration with President Putin at this point?

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I didn't like that strike. I wasn't happy with it. And we're in the midst of talking peace and missiles were fired. I was not happy with it.

ZELENY: Well, you consider additional sanctions toward Russia, or what will you do if President Putin does not respond?

TRUMP: I'd rather answer that question in a week. I want to see if we can have a deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, saying he will answer that question in a week. But, Jake, what that does is put a bit of a timeline here that shows the patience of the U.S. president is wearing out. Even as he insists he has no allegiance to either side, it is clear that the deal he's been asking you Ukraine to sign favors Russia. There is no doubt about that.

But inside the White House among his West Wing advisers, we are told the president is growing more frustrated. An unanswered question, though, is what he will do about it, and will he hold President Putin to account. Jake?

TAPPER: And, Fred, there was another very notable comment notable comment by President Trump in the Oval Office today. Let me play that for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: What concessions has Russia offered up thus far to get to the point where you're closer to peace?

TRUMP: Stopping the war, stopping taking the whole country, pretty big concession.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: How are Russian officials responding to that, Fred?

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the Russians certainly would agree with that as well. The Russians say that they believe that the Trump administration and the Putin administration actually see eye-to-eye as far as the trajectory of the war in Ukraine is concerned and also as far as the root causes of the war in Ukraine are concerned as well. In fact, I spoke to a senior senator from Russia earlier today and he said the U.S. and Russia currently understand each other very well.

So, as far as the Russians are concerned, they believe that Trump is absolutely on the right track and that also that the talks that are being led right now by Steve Witkoff, who, of course, is expected to be here in Russia again in a couple of hours, could be very constructive as well. At the same time, as far as those consequences are concerned that the president was talking about today, we're not sensing very much that the Russians are very concerned about those. I spoke to that senator as well and he said, look, any sort of sanctions that the Trump administration could be threatening against Russia is certainly not something that the Russians are afraid of. Their economy is, of course, under heavy sanctions already. They believe that it is sanctions-proof.

So, the bottom line for the Russians is that, for them, they're going to wait for the rights deal to come around. They're going to do that on their own time and certainly big concerns for them and the things that they're really looking out for is the territorial question, where we've already mentioned, they want to keep most of the territory and possibly even more than they currently hold on Ukrainian soil. And, of course, the other questions are possible Ukrainian membership in NATO alliance in the future. That's something that the Russians continue to say is an absolute red line for them. Jake?

TAPPER: All right, Fred Pleitgen in Moscow and Jeff Zeleny at the White House, thanks to both of you.

Joining us now, CNN Global Affairs Analyst and former special envoy under multiple presidents Brett McGurk. Brett, so President Trump says that it is a big concession for Russia to stop trying to take the entire country and to stop the war. I'm no geopolitical expert, but that sounds to me like a bank robber goes into a bank, steals a million dollars, is standing there, and a cop says, okay, you can leave, just stop robbing the bank and you can take the million dollars, and that's a pretty big concession.

[18:05:00]

I mean, it's not a great metaphor but --

BRETT MCGURK, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes, your analogy that the bank robber actually didn't even get the money he wanted. Because remember the Ukrainians have kind of imposed that concession because they stopped the initial objectives from Putin in 2022. He wanted to take the whole country.

TAPPER: Well, let's say the bank robber wanted to steal a hundred million dollars but only had $1 million. I mean, they are talking about letting him have territory, the Trump administration.

MCGURK: But at the end of the day, there has to be a deal that -- well, deal with some swaps of land. I think that's probably going to happen.

TAPPER: Swaps, not just tanking?

MCGURK: I'm sorry, some land. There's going to be -- have to be land in this deal. Everybody knows that.

TAPPER: Okay. MCGURK: The question is, when do you put all your cards on the table? And, look, I think we all want this war to come. We want to get to a ceasefire. I was here last week. We reminded your viewers five weeks ago, Zelenskyy signed up to a ceasefire. Rubio had a statement saying, it's now up to Russian. Reciprocity is the key to peace. Since then, there's been nothing but Russian escalation.

You know, Jake, I've negotiated with the Russians.

TAPPER: Right.

MCGURK: It's a classic tactic. Just before you're about to have a diplomatic engagement, they do something crazy. They do a missile strike --

TAPPER: Like this? Like this attack?

MCGURK: Yes. They do a missile strike. They want to show that they are in control of events. Even though we might be a stronger power or a greater power, they want to show we are in control of events. That's what they're doing.

And the fact that at least President Trump today said, hey, I'm sick of this, and, you know, there might be some consequences I have to impose, he talked two weeks ago about imposing secondary sanctions on purchases of Russian oil. That would be meaningful. That would be impactful. But he seems to have a view that Russia actually is -- everything's going swimmingly for the Russians. I mean, the Ukrainians have inflicted about 700,000 casualties against the Russians, by conservative estimates, 150,000 dead Russians in this war. We have a lot of leverage here to get to a good deal, not just any deal, a good deal, and to try to stop the war.

Look, I think it's always a question diplomacy. Is there movement or is there motion? Is there motion or actually movement? There's a lot of motion here. It's unclear if there's movement. President Trump said in a week, we might know a little more. We'll see.

Look, I think to stop the war is a worthy objective, but we have imposed ourselves as a mediator and that means we have to put pressure on both sides.

TAPPER: It doesn't seem as though they're putting pressure on both sides. It seems like they're putting a lot of pressure on Zelenskyy and Ukraine, and I get it. They want to bring the war to an end, and Zelenskyy's idea of I'm not seating any territory and we want Crimea back is not going to happen.

MCGURK: Yes.

TAPPER: But it does seem like they're putting all the pressure on him other than, you know what a Truth Social post, Vladimir, stop.

MCGURK: That's absolutely right. This is important, because, yes, diplomacy is not just about posts on Truth Social or on X. You know, ironically, a kind of collapsing the global economy puts a lot of pressure on the Russians because the price of oil and gas has gone way down.

TAPPER: Right.

MCGURK: And Russia's entire economy, about 40 percent of their budget --

TAPPER: Now, I understand tariffs. It makes sense now.

MCGURK: Totally dependent on those revenues.

TAPPER: Let me ask you about the Pentagon, because senior Pentagon officials tell me and Haley Britzky and Natasha Bertrand in our Pentagon reporting unit, that Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth's new closest adviser helped set up a Signal on a personal computer of his, Signal and text, on a personal computer of his at the Pentagon on his desk. And then that was before Signal gate broke. And then after Signal gate broke, they asked the Pentagon's chief information officer if he could still keep using Signal on this personal computer. What's your take on this?

MCGURK: This is kind of just like flabbergasting. It's one story after another. I know how -- I actually help organize strikes against the Houthis. You're in your SCIF, which is a controlled compartmented facility. That's where our offices are. You're getting reports on something called SIPRNet. That's the secret system from CENTCOM on strike times, what's happening. And you usually then report that on an even higher level system called JWICS, to top secret system to others in the national security community.

So, the fact that it's on Signal, that type of information, is just wrong by any account.

TAPPER: What about the second Signal chat, where his wife and his brother and his lawyer are on it?

MCGURK: Again, he should have come out in the beginning and said, you know, this job's maybe a little harder than I thought. I take full responsibility, it won't happen again. It's the constant dissembling and blame shifting that has been a huge problem here.

Look, I know Trump does not want to make a change at the Pentagon. At some point, though, when he is expending political capital to defend his own secretary of defense, that's going to be a problem. And also like let's not lose sight here the Houthis campaign, this has been going on now for five weeks. And I think there are real questions about the direction in which it's going. It's about a six-month campaign.

I know something about it because we helped develop it under the Biden administration. We handed it off in the transition. But, you know, is Hegseth paying attention to this? How's it going? I think those are questions that are worth asking because all these distractions, it's just so notable, Jake, that his own people have left the Pentagon and reported to the American people that the Pentagon is in a full blown meltdown.

TAPPER: Yes, his former spokesman, John Ullyot.

MCGURK: That's -- that you need -- the chain of command goes from the president to the secretary of defense, and then every military deployment around the world, that's how it works. That office is so critical, discipline and professionalism in that office. It's about the protection of our country.

[18:10:00]

TAPPER: Yes, which is why you're not supposed to send pending strike information on a commercial app to a reporter, to your wife, to your brother, to your lawyer.

Brett McGurk, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

White House is touting successful trade talks today but without a flurry of new deals. How soon could you feel the impacts of these tariffs, that's next.

Plus, what a new court filing is revealing about how the White House is using that act from 1798 from good old President John Adams to carry out its mass deportation campaign.

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TAPPER: Our Money Lead now, many businesses are moving through their pre-tariff inventory now, which means higher prices could be coming your way soon. So, when might you actually feel the sticker shock on some of your favorite clothes or shoes or other products that come from overseas?

Well, CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich is near the Port of New York and New Jersey, which recently became the busiest port in the country, partly because of this. Vanessa, how are tariffs impacting retailers' inventories?

[18:15:03]

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, as you mentioned, Jake, the Port of New York and New Jersey, which you can see just behind my right hand shoulder here, became the busiest port in part because retailers were bringing in tons of products and cargo to try to beat those tariffs that were going to effect in April. And retailers who have stockpiled are starting to move through that pre-tariff inventory.

According to Wells Fargo and the Federal Reserve of St. Louis, essentially, businesses have about 1.3 months of inventory. And once they move through that, they're going to have to bring new inventory in, and that will be at the tariff rate.

Now at the Port of New York and New Jersey, about 25 percent of the volume that comes into the port behind me is from China. They say that they expect another surge to come in ahead of that 90-day pause on those reciprocal tariffs in case they go into effect. But after that, they expect a slow down. They expect businesses to start to pull back because those prices will go up and it'll be a lot more expensive for businesses to get their goods into the country. Jake?

TAPPER: Vanessa, when can shoppers expect to see this price hike?

YURKEVICH: Well, a boat that is leaving from China today will take about five to six weeks to arrive here at the Port of New York and New Jersey. So, it depends on the size of the business and how much they have stockpiled. A smaller business, we've heard that many of those businesses are going to have to start raising prices after Mother's Day. Other businesses who have more supply, they can start to push those prices off. But likely in the next couple months, according to Flexport, they're an ocean carrier broker, they say that back to school items and holiday items are going to see higher prices. They also note that key products that we get from China, like sneakers, footwear, toys, those are likely going to see higher prices sooner.

Also, to note from Flexport, they said that some ocean carriers are already canceling their routes to different ports in the United States because it is just becoming too expensive, Jake. Ultimately, then that could lead to some shortages and then inflation for U.S. consumers. Jake?

TAPPER: Vanessa Yurkevich near the Port of New York and New Jersey, thanks so much.

I want to try to understand what's going through President Trump's mind. I'm not a psychologist, but we do have on tap here former Trump Communications Director Alyssa Farah Griffin, who understands him.

Alyssa, to the extent you can help us understand what you think President Trump's mindset is when it comes to the back and forth on the tariff policies, which are definitionally erratic. Is there a method to the madness?

ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I hope that there is because the U.S. economy and actually the global economy kind of hangs in the balance. But most likely what I think happened is the president was pitched this idea that he announced on what he called liberation day. That was this idea of a very, introducing a very protectionist American economy, something that certain advisers around him, Steve Bannon, Peter Navarro, really think will work, that we're going to bring all this manufacturing back to the United States. It's going to create wealth and prosperity. But the plurality of economists left, right and center, say this is not possible in a global economy.

And I think once he came out with sort of these sweeping tariffs, we've seen him pull them back and continually make these changes, he's realizing he needs an off-ramp. Like the writing is on the wall. You know, CNN reported that this week he met with Walmart and Target CEOs who warned him about supply chain disruptions and higher costs.

But the question is really who is going to present him some kind of an off-ramp that he's going to be able to present as a win to the public. And if that's going to happen kind of remains to be seen at this point.

TAPPER: I know some people view Trump's tariffs as just a negotiating point, part of the art of the deal tactics. But some Trump supporters out there, including we heard from Citadel CEO Ken Griffin, huge Trump supporter, they're convinced that America's reputation is damaged.

I want you to take a listen to what Mr. Griffin had to say yesterday,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEN GRIFFIN, CEO, CITADEL: The United States was more than just a nation. It's a brand, it's a universal brand, whether it's our culture, our financial strength, our military strength. America rose beyond just being a country. It was like an aspiration for most of the world. And we're eroding that brand right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do comments like that bother President Trump, do you think? Because that's -- I mean, that's not some left-wing freak, as he might say. That's a supporter. That's a big MAGA guy.

A. GRIFFIN: Yes, I do think it moves the needle. I think Jamie Dimon, we saw, he went on Fox Business and Donald Trump announced that he was going to pull back some of the tariffs. And something that I do think actually may influence him is there's been a lot of polls around this, but Fox News released a poll that showed his support on the economy is down to 38 percent. That's more than a 10 point drop on an issue the American public trusted him more on and elected him on.

[18:20:02]

So, I think when he sees his own allies and he sees a favorable news outlet reporting these numbers, he can't ignore it and shake it.

So, I think the next step is he's got to decide what the policy is actually going to be and then get out and explain to the American public and the world that's watching what he's going to do and how it's supposed to work.

TAPPER: The president seems to treat geopolitics and global trade negotiations kind of the same way. And some people say like almost as if you would sell a condo, you know, like the idea of here's our brand and it's the best in the world. This is our -- I mean, you know what I mean, like he's selling a product. Now, it's worked for him politically to get elected twice. Is that the same tactic he tries behind closed doors?

A. GRIFFIN: It is. I think he sees most things as a negotiation and he sees -- he looks for leverage and he uses it when he thinks that he has it. But I think what Ken Griffin said so wisely and I hope resonates with advisors in the White House is the brand of America is bigger than any one president, than any one industry, than any one, you know, trade deficit we may have with the country. It's this aspiration. And I think that's what's kind of been missing from the policy rollout, as we've seen them.

Listen, this president -- I would hope that there's advisors around him who are reminding him whether it's geopolitics, whether it's the war in Ukraine, or sweeping tariffs. Doing things quickly and over social media is often not the best way to do it. It's often going to lead to a worse result. There's a reason many of us tried to keep him from tweeting at times when we could. But I don't anticipate that's going to end anytime soon.

TAPPER: Alyssa Farrah Griffin, good to see you, as always. Thanks so much.

New York Governor Kathy Hochul faces a deadline today to decide whether to grant clemency to a man who a court already decided could walk free. We told you that story yesterday. We have an update on the case. That's next.

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[18:25:00]

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, a newly unsealed court document providing a closer look at the Trump administration's usage of that Alien Enemies Act. You remember, John Adams signed at 1798. It's a wartime authority that the Trump administration is leaning on with the approval of the U.S. Supreme Court to carry out their plans for mass deportation.

CNN's Priscilla Alvarez joins me now with the latest. Priscilla, what does this mean for the future of the deportations plan?

PRISCILLA ALVAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, this gives us a window into what the procedure is for the people who are going to be subject to this sweeping wartime authority. As you just mentioned, the Supreme Court allowed the use of this law, the administration to use it, but they noted something really critical. They said that they had to essentially give migrants some level of due process, reasonable time to contest their removal under this authority.

What we didn't know, however, is how the administration was interpreting that. Well, now we do, according to this declaration from a senior Immigration and Customs Enforcement official. And it is pretty remarkable what they're saying is that. They give a notice one page two migrants who are going to be subject to this authority. It says that they're an alien enemy. It requires their signature. It does not mention that they can contest their removal under this authority. But there is an explanation that is supposed to happen between the officer and the individual. And mind you, this is a paper in English and not all that receive them know English.

If they choose to file a habeas petition, they have to state their intent to do so within 12 hours, and then they have to file it within 24 hours. I have covered this a long time. There are a lot of immigrants in detention who do not have attorneys. So, while they are afforded a call, they have to find an attorney in that call and then file a petition within 24 hours.

So, the American Civil Liberties Union is saying, hey, this is not what the Supreme Court meant. In fact, in some cases across the country, as they've argued this, they have noted that in World War II, those immigrants had 30 days to --

TAPPER: Yes. We also learned yesterday that the Trump administration has revoked the visas of more than 1,500 foreign students and recent graduates. Give us a sense of the scale and the impact of that.

ALVAREZ: Well, there are a variety of visas. They're complex. The application of them is complex. But the State Department does have the authority, wide ranging authority to revoke the visas.

Now, if you look at a big from the big numbers, more than 1 million people come to the United States to be students and have student visas. That's a lot of people. They also contribute big money to the U.S. economy.

TAPPER: It's a big export, education, yes.

ALVAREZ: According to one of the studies, $43 billion from this. So, while 1,500 is perhaps a sliver of the overall 1 million, it's the chilling effect. It's what does it mean for everyone else who may come another school years knowing, of course, that this is a big contributor to the U.S. economy.

I will also note that in my conversations with attorneys, the other issue is that some students are just in complete uncertainty. They don't know if their visas have been revoked. They don't know if they're active. And they don't know if they have to go back home. And so all of that can fuel big concerns for these universities.

TAPPER: And we should also note, there is not evidence that we have seen that these 1,500 students have been engaged in law breaking or anti-Semitic protests or anything like that. We've seen a couple maybe, like --

ALVAREZ: In some cases.

TAPPER: But not 1,500.

ALVAREZ: But the reality of it, Jake, is, really, the State Department has a lot of authority to do what they want and revoking them without evidence is one of them.

TAPPER: All right. Priscilla Alvarez, thank you.

Let's talk about one of the students, a judge ruled this week that the Palestinian Columbia University student, Mohsen Mahdawi, who was detained at his citizenship interview in Vermont, I believe, will stay in detention in Vermont for now, ahead of another hearing next week.

Mahdawi's attorney, Cyrus Mehta, joins me now.

[18:30:01]

Cyrus, thanks for joining us.

So, Mohsen Mahdawi has been a legal resident of the United States for ten years. He's not been charged with any crime. What evidence, if any, has the U.S. State Department or the Trump administration writ large provided as a reason for his arrest and detention?

CYRUS MEHTA, IMMIGRATION ATTORNEY FOR MOHSEN MAHDAWI: Thank you, Jake, for having me on the show. My client has been arrested and detained solely for his speech, which is protected under the First Amendment. The government has provided no other evidence to support his detention right now.

TAPPER: When I asked the State Department for why they were deporting Mohsen or attempting to do so, they pointed me to comments they gave to the New York Post that alleged he had been part of a group and that had done a number of things, but they didn't say anything specifically that he had done or said.

Mahdawi wrote a letter when he was inside this detention center in Vermont. He claimed, quote, the Department of Homeland Security orchestrated a honey trap, offering me a long awaited appointment for citizenship. And then when he got there, he, they detained him. Have you seen evidence to support the idea that the citizenship appointment was a setup?

MEHTA: Yes, he was in this final stage. Citizenship is the last stage in your journey to become a citizen. He had been scheduled for an interview. He was eligible for citizenship. When he went for his interview, he was actually interviewed for his citizenship. And at the conclusion of the interview, when he left the office, agents of the DHS arrested him. They came in several cars and whisked him away.

TAPPER: So --

MEHTA: So, therefore, it was clearly a honey trap here and it shouldn't have happened in this way.

TAPPER: So, Cyrus --

MEHTA: It was really cruel (ph).

TAPPER: Let me ask you just in, in the time that we have left. So, some of the protests at Columbia University did get ugly. Some of them spilled into anti-Semitism, some of them spilled into violence. I haven't seen any evidence that Mohsen was part of anti-Semitism or violence. And, in fact, his allies say that he had split with the protest movement before the encampments began on the campus because of the extremism and the anti-Semitism that was seeping in. Is that accurate?

MEHTA: That's absolutely correct. The government's allegations against him are completely baseless and they're not supported by any evidence. In any event, whatever he did in terms of protesting are protected under the First Amendment. It was lawful speech.

TAPPER: Cyrus Mehta, thank you so much. Please stay in touch. We want to stay on top of this case.

MEHTA: Thank you very much.

TAPPER: An update on yesterday's story about Andre Brown. You remember him? He's the man facing 17 years more in prison for a crime that one court ruled he did not have competent attorneys for when he was convicted and sentenced to 40 years in prison.

Today, his lawyers let us know that his sentence to -- he's supposed to be going back to prison, has been postponed for now. Andre already served 23 years on this 40-year sentence for attempted murder, which he says he did not commit. As we told you yesterday, that sentence was vacated in 2022 due to inadequate counsel.

His lawyer at the time hadn't brought up the physical impossibility that Andre alleges made it so he couldn't have conducted the shooting. He was recovering himself from being shot in the leg, and he couldn't run. He had a limp. Witnesses said they saw the alleged perpetrator run and did not have a limp.

So, last year after the conviction was vacated, an appeals court reinstated his sentence. Andre was supposed to go back to prison tomorrow unless Governor Hochul intervene and give him clemency. This afternoon, the Bronx district attorney agreed to pause the sentence until a court weighs in on his legal -- Andre's legal team's s resentencing motion in a hearing on May 16th.

Andre stays free for now. He's not going to prison tomorrow. His team continues to work to prove his innocence. Governor Hochul has not acted on this case, as far as we know. We will continue to stay on top of it.

With President Trump threatening more tariffs in the coming weeks, we're going to head to Albany, New York, next, continuing our series with small business owners to see how tariffs are impacting their bottom line.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Money Lead, we're back with our continuing series where we talk to small business owners coast to coast about Trump's tariffs. Some like the president, some don't. Some like the tariffs, many don't.

Our guest today is Dominick Purnomo. He's a restaurant owner in Albany, New York. And, Dominick, you own two restaurants, a fine dining spot, and the casual American restaurant where you are right now. Have you noticed any sort of shift in your customers since Trump's tariffs were announced? Are people holding onto their money more?

DOMINICK PURNOMO, OWNER, DOMINICK PURNOMO RESTAURANT GROUP: Yes. Good evening, Jake. Thank you very much for having me on and for sharing our story.

We have definitely seen a pullback on foot traffic, people coming in, you know, more or less since the April 7th, the liberation day. Our first quarters were soft for many restaurants around the country, us included. And we've seen some consumer confidence drop off in the last three weeks or so.

TAPPER: Obviously, this creates a lot of uncertainty for you in an already volatile industry. Restaurants, as I don't need to tell you, are a risky venture. How are you managing?

PURNOMO: You know, we're doing the best that we can with, you know, trying to get ways to increase traffic and to come up with some other ideas. But, you know, like I said, you know, the squeeze has been on. You know, our costs are up 40 percent cost of goods, 30 percent in labor since the pandemic. And, you know, while menu prices have really only gone up about 20 to 25 percent. You know, restaurants across the country average 3 to 5 percent profit margin.

[18:40:00]

So, there's really no place to go but unfortunately to pass those costs along to consumers.

TAPPER: What products do you rely on that might have been impacted by any price increases or you anticipate they will be impacted?

PURNOMO: Well, I mean, there's a lot of items. You know, we have cuisine from around the world on our menu. So, there's a lot of things that we just can't make in the United States, cocoa, coffee, coconut milk, certain spices and chilies, things like that that we import. You know, most of our meat fish all comes domestically. We're in Upstate New York where we have an incredible amount of locally grown farms and produce, but that's only about four or five months a year. And our consumers, you know, they want a tomato on the BLT or on the burger in January. And to do that, we have to get product from outside the country.

TAPPER: The Trump administration's goal with the tariffs, they say, is to bring manufacturing back home and to even the playing field. Do you think it is possible for them to achieve what they want to achieve without hurting American businesses such as yours?

PURNOMO: I don't think so. And that's why I think as a restaurant industry, what we're asking is the administration to do a carve-out for food products. The United States has a trade surplus or even depending on the year. We export about $190 billion in produce and agriculture and we import about the same amount. So, it's really a trade of what's available in the U.S. versus what's not. So, you know, we think that it would be fair for the administration to do a carve- out for food.

There's already enough food insecurity in the United States. 12 percent of people in the U.S. are food insecure. Stalling that food in ports, you know, it could be another $2 billion a year in wasted product, plus another $12 billion in additional costs that are ultimately going to be passed on to the consumer.

TAPPER: Dominick, I have to bid you farewell, but before you go, for anybody in the Albany area, what are the names of your two restaurants?

PURNOMO: Yono's is our fine dining restaurant and D.P. An American Brasserie, both located in downtown Albany.

TAPPER: All right. I'll look you up if I'm ever up there.

Dominick Purnomo, thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

PURNOMO: Thank you, Jake.

TAPPER: As the final preparations are underway for Pope Francis' funeral, we're visiting his hometown of Buenos Aires for personal reflections from people who knew him before he was the head of the Catholic Church. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:46:08]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: More on our faith lead now. The doors to St. Peter's Basilica closed just minutes ago, ending the second of three days for the public to pay their final respects to Pope Francis. The Vatican says more than 90,000 people have filed into St. Peter's Basilica so far.

Across the globe, and the pope's hometown of Buenos Aires, Argentina. Those who knew Francis before he was the pope, before he was Francis, are reflecting on his legacy.

Here's CNNs David Culver.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID CULVER, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: A familiar voice to the world -- but deeply personal for Ana Maria Cariaga (ph).

Using WhatsApp, which I didn't know, the pope used WhatsApp, but it sent a voice message for Ana Maria.

Ana Maria knew Pope Francis long before he was pontiff. They met through her mom, Esther (ph).

So, he was in technical school and at that time, he was in a laboratory doing work, and her mom was his boss.

There was a moment that Pope Francis, as just Jorge Bergoglio, turned in some work and her mom noticed, what? You did that really quickly. And he said, well, I just copied. They're all the same. And she said, no, take it back. You need to redo it and do it right.

And in this way, the pope is often referred to Esther as the person who taught him work ethic. The pope shared that story in his final book, "Hope", writing that Esther quote taught me to think, by which I mean to think about politics.

It was in this back room of Santa Cruz church that Esther and fellow dissidents, including members of the mothers of the Plaza de Mayo, gathered to plan political protests during Argentina's so-called dirty war. The government's brutal campaign against suspected dissidents. But in June 1977, that resistance became personal.

Soldiers took Esther's daughter, Ana Maria, into custody. She was just 16 and three months pregnant. Francis would later write, quote. She described how she had been kept in chains, hooded, stripped naked, beaten, her face suffocated by plastic bags, her body burned with cigarettes.

Four months later, ana maria was released, but the regime soon turned its focus to her mother.

December 8th, 1977, after her mom and a few others were meeting here in this church, they walked out and as soon as they stepped out, 12 of them were taken into custody. The pope wrote how his dear friend Esther was tortured, drugged and thrown alive from a plane into the ocean. One of up to 30,000 people killed or disappeared during Argentina's darkest days. Her remains were not identified until 2005.

Francis, then Cardinal Bergoglio, asked that she be laid to rest at Santa Cruz church, where her fight for justice began. He never forgot her. Esther's portrait hung in his private study at the Vatican, and he stayed in touch with Ana Maria over the years.

Last August, Ana Maria's daughter, the child she carried in captivity, met with Pope Francis at the Vatican.

Recorded a video message for her just last year. Not even a year ago.

And part of his message that he sent out to her was to maintain in your mind the memories and to keep present. What happened? Basically, to never forget.

Remembering so as to not repeat a painful past.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CULVER (on camera): Jake, as we know, Pope Francis never made it back to Argentina as pope. But I was asking one woman about that today, and she said, yeah, but he was always present. And you have to remember, he had 76 years living here in this country. And the relationships that he built -- it's amazing to see that he was able to sustain them for his 12 years as pope.

And I was shocked to see that he was doing it through modern technology, sending video messages and voice notes through WhatsApp.

[18:50:00]

TAPPER: Amazing.

David Culver in Buenos Aires, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

On Saturday morning, of course, the world will say goodbye to the pope. Join CNN for special live coverage of the funeral of Pope Francis. That begins Saturday morning at 3:00 a.m. Eastern.

On this Holocaust Remembrance Day, a call to action from a Holocaust survivor. Something we can all strive for in our daily lives. And that story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our world, today is Yom Hashoah, a day when the world remembers and reflects upon the Holocaust. In New York City, there's a campaign called Borrowed Spotlight, which pairs 18 celebrities with Holocaust survivors to help share the stories of the survivors. Posters on one corner of New York City advertising this exhibit were ripped down.

The survivor, whose picture was torn at the top right. You can barely make her out next to Cindy Crawford.

[18:55:01]

She's Ella Mandel. She was just 13 years old when Nazis invaded Poland. Ella, along with her mother and sister, were sent to the concentration Camp Auschwitz before being sent to dig ditches at a labor camp. Ella told Cindy Crawford, quote, I was the only survivor. You can't help thinking and asking why.

Also featured, Bella Rosenberg, who you would have seen posed with actor and singer Billy Porter if her poster had not been ripped off the wall. Born in a small town in Poland, Bella was just a child when the Nazis invaded and went into hiding during the war. Out of 20,000 Jews, Bella was one of just a few hundred from her town to survive. She told Billy Porter, quote, I see things getting worse and worse. People forget what happened such a short time ago, unquote.

The survivor you would have seen next to Bella Rosenberg if his photo hadn't been torn down is Joseph Alexander. He's now 103 years old. Joseph Alexander managed to survive not one, but 12 different concentration camps, including Dachau and Auschwitz.

He told Scooter Braun when they were photographed, quote, the man upstairs wanted me to survive. I lost my parents and five siblings. I was the only survivor.

I want to take a moment to thank whichever miscreant out there pulled down those posters, because it gave us the idea to do this piece, and it gave us the desire to bring these stories to an ever even wider audience. Their photographs might not have survived on that wall in New York City, no thanks to you. But their stories live on, and now more people are hearing them because of what you did.

Let's bring in CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig.

And, Elie, you're the grandson of two Holocaust survivors. What do you think goes into this kind of conduct?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Jake, two things that I can think of. Hate and ignorance. And if you look at recent polling, especially of young people 30 and under, it shows disturbing trends in their understanding of the Holocaust. Nearly half of all those people have seen Holocaust denialism in their social media feeds. About 20 percent believe the Holocaust did not even happen, and about 10 percent of those people believe that Jews are to blame for the Holocaust. And I think the best way we can address that is by remembering the stories of these survivors.

TAPPER: And, Elie, you told us about a very moving experience you had when you interviewed a Holocaust survivor. Tell us about it.

HONIG: Yeah. So, I got an email from another person named Elie Honig. Same name as me. Turns out he's 82 years old now. When he was born in 1942, in France, the Nazis had taken over his town and his father was murdered at Auschwitz. Nine other family members were murdered at Auschwitz, but he was saved as a newborn by his French Christian neighbors.

They hid him with a family. They hid his mother and his older sisters. Two years later, they were miraculously reunited because of the bravery of those French Christian neighbors.

And I asked Dr. Honig, he's a doctor, a physics professor. I asked him, what message would you like to send to future generations about your experience? Let's take a listen to what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ELIE HONIG, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: I would like them to recognize how difficult it is, but how important it is to rise above the crowd, to do what's right, to do what you know in your heart is right. Even though it is difficult. How do you act honorably? How do you pass that down so that you can look yourself in the mirror and said, I did the right thing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HONIG: And you know, Jake, Dr. Honig's story, I think, is a reminder of how difficult it can be to do the right thing. And he understands that he owes his whole life. He's lived 82 years. He has four children. He has five grandchildren. He was a beloved physics professor to the bravery of his French saviors.

One thing that sticks in my mind, one detail he tells us about in the piece, a 12-year-old girl was sent to get him after he was born. She put him in a bag. He was a newborn and carried him through Nazi occupied towns in France to bring him to the safe house, where he was kept for two years.

TAPPER: Days like today make me think about how much antisemitism is tolerated by both people in the Democratic Party and the Republican Party these days, because they don't want to call it out, or because they're willing to overlook it. And you just see so much of it, of people just tolerating it. And it really just makes me sick.

HONIG: Yeah. And that's why days like today are so important. And look, these people are still with us. People who live through this. It seems like another historical era. They're still alive. Fewer and fewer of them. But that's why it's so important we honor their stories.

TAPPER: Well, thank you for bringing that. I appreciate it.

OK. It's tough to do a transition now, but I do have two books coming out. In May, one is "Original Sin", about President Biden's decision to run for reelection, the cover up of his decline. In October, "Race Against Terror", and the hunt to prosecute an al-Qaeda terrorist who killed Americans and was out to kill more.

You can check out both, "Original Sin" and "Race Against Terror". They're up for preorder at jaketapper.com. Until tomorrow, you can follow me on Facebook, Instagram Threads, Substack, X, on Tiktok, Jake Tapper.

You can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show all two hours, whence you get your podcast.

Erin Burnett, my dear friend, "ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now. Erin, take it away.