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The Lead with Jake Tapper

India Launches Military Operation Against Pakistan; Trump On Trade Talks: We Don't Have To Sign Deals; Trump's Controversial Pick For Top D.C. Prosecutor On Thin Ice; A Long-Shot Contender For Pope, Cardinal Pizzaballa; WSJ: Pentagon I.G. Reviewing Hegseth's Use Of Signal App. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 06, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

This hour, economic whiplash at the White House. President Trump claims he could sign 25 trade deals right now, but he won't because, quote, we don't have to sign deals, okay? What does all of that actually mean for the U.S. economy, for tariffs, for your wallet? We'll discuss.

Plus, while all of those trade deals are up in the air, many small businesses are currently paying the price.

[18:00:01]

Our series today on how the tariffs are hitting small businesses takes us to the Commonwealth of Virginia, and the business owner who says even though he assembles all of his products in the U.S., these tariffs will likely force him to close.

Also, the deadline is almost here. The federal government starts enforcing real I.D. rules tomorrow, real I.D. Have you heard of this? The new driver's licenses are supposed to increase security. But what happens if you haven't gotten yours yet.

And the conclave to select the next pope begins in just a few hours. And tonight, we're going to introduce you to a cardinal with a very memorable name, who could be a long shot contender to lead the Catholic Church.

But we begin with breaking news in our World Lead, and India launching a military operation against Pakistan. India says it hit what it describes as terrorist infrastructure in both Pakistan and Pakistan- administered Kashmir. This is a major escalation of tensions. It's a response to an attack on tourists in India-administered Kashmir two weeks ago.

And CNN's Nic Robertson is in Pakistan's capital of Islamabad. Actually, I have -- there he is, okay. Nic, what's going on?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. Our cameraman here, Javid, who lives just on the outskirts of Islamabad, was woken like so many other Pakistanis to the sound of explosions, his house shaking. We are fairly close to Pakistan-administered Kashmir here. The capital of Pakistan-administered Kashmir has had multiple strikes as well. Our local CNN stringer in that town tells us that people are terrified. They've been running on the streets. The latest reports from there are that the electricity is off. Pakistan's military is calling this a heinous attack. They're saying it is only civilians who have been injured. It's civilian infrastructure. The Pakistan military say that has been hit in all these different locations. Pakistan's military has released images that show women and children and men as well blooded and injured and being treated inside of hospitals.

The overall picture is still not clear, but Pakistan's military says it is engaged right now in a crushing response, an Air Force response to these strikes inside of Pakistan proper. It's something that Pakistan had said they would do. They said that they would retaliate immediately as part of their military doctrine if India struck inside of Pakistan. The question becomes, what does India do next, because this is so heated and so fueled.

Pakistan believes that this moment different to previous tensions with India, the multiple tensions and flare-ups and wars they've had since 1947 across this contentious border. They believe that this moment is existential because India has threatened and has begun to turn off water, shut down water supplies coming from three major rivers from the Kashmir region that are absolutely vital for Pakistan's infrastructure power and for agriculture.

This is why the moment is so tense right now, but what is becoming clear here is that we are in an escalation phase. India has struck, Pakistan is striking back. The airspace here is closed. And at the moment, frankly, I have to say, it feels like all bets are off. There was a potential for this to just have a quick strike from India inside of ca Pakistan-controlled Kashmir. Pakistan would do back inside of Indian-controlled Kashmir, and that both sides could have potentially walked away.

That was how senior Pakistani military officials have described it to me. That is not the scenario tonight. We are a long way beyond that right now, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Nic Robertson in Islamabad, thank you so much.

I want to bring in CNN's Kristen Holmes live at the White House. And, Kristen, President Trump also just addressed another conflict abroad. Tell us more.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that's right Jake. It was actually in response to a reporter's question about Benjamin Netanyahu, Israeli's prime minister, saying that he wanted to conquer Gaza, Trump responding and revealing new information about the number of hostages believed to be alive inside of Gaza. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Today, it's 21. Three have died. So, this is a terrible situation. We're trying to get the hostages out. We've gotten a lot of them out. As the expression goes, there's 21 plus a lot of dead bodies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: Now, of course, this comes after last month. Israeli officials have told CNN that they believed that three, or they had grave concerns about three of the hostages, but would not confirm if they were dead. It also comes after Netanyahu's wife was caught on a hot mic saying that they were fewer than 24 hostages left alive, of course, it's the first time we've had that confirmation.

[18:05:06]

TAPPER: And President Trump also met with the Canadian prime minister, Mark Carney, today, who was just elected a few days ago. They talked trade. How did that go?

HOLMES: Well, look, it seems like it went incredibly tense. We watched it happen. We watched it unfold. It started very cordially. The two of them seemed to be having a more affable conversation, certainly more affable than we've seen do Donald Trump interact with Justin Trudeau in the past. However, it quickly escalated when Donald Trump started talking about trade, saying they didn't need Canada, saying that he was not going to stop any of the tariffs. There was nothing that Carney could say. He also said this,

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to put down the price that people are going to have to pay to shop in the United States. Think of us as a super luxury store, a store that has the goods. You're going to come and you're going to pay a price. And we're going to give you a very good price. We're going to make very good deals, and in some cases we'll adjust.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: And it was very interesting to hear him also backpedal at some points about trade deals, saying that the media was making a big deal about the trade deals and that his people were not being clear enough that they could sign 25 deals right now if they wanted to, but these countries should be coming to him.

Just to be clear, Jake, the administration has been making a big deal about these trade deals, saying that's what they needed to kick-start the economy and this process, obviously eventually getting to a deal potentially with China. It's not something the media blew up, but it does sound a little bit like Donald Trump wants to backpedal on the importance of those deals.

TAPPER: All right. Kristen Holmes at the White House, thanks so much.

President Trump claimed today that the U.S. does not need anything from Canada going as far to say on social -- on Truth Social that, quote, we don't need their cars, we don't need their energy, we don't need their lumber, we don't need anything they have, unquote.

Let's bring in CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich. Vanessa, is that true? VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: It is quite the opposite, Jake, and let me walk you through it. Let's take a look at lumber here. Softwood lumber is incredibly important for the United States. It's how we build homes and furniture. We currently produce in the U.S. about 70 percent because we don't have the capacity right now to produce more. That's why we get 25 percent from Canada, a little over 4 percent from other countries.

What if we could produce lumber here in the United States? Well, we certainly have the natural resources, but we don't have the access to federal lands. President Trump did issue an executive order to open up more federal lands for harvesting of trees, but we'd have to build the sawmills. That takes two to three years and up to $400 million in investment per sawmill.

Biggest thing working against the industry right now is the aging workforce. Logging jobs expected to decline by 4 percent over the next ten years.

Let's talk about energy. Do you remember when the premier of Ontario, Doug Ford, said this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG FORD, ONTARIO PREMIER: I will not hesitate to shut the electricity off completely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

YURKEVICH: Well, people freaked out about this, because while the United States produces most of the energy we consume, the number one place that we get the rest of our energy, Canada. Just take a look here on your screen, crude oil, 60 percent coming from Canada, electricity, 85 percent coming from Canada, and nearly 100 percent of all the natural gas that we import, which is a small amount, 6 percent, but nearly all of it coming in from Canada.

Let's talk about the auto industry. This is an industry that is probably the most interconnected between the U.S. and Canada. Look at this, G.M., Ford and Stellantis, the big three U.S. automakers, nine plants in Canada alone. These are final assembly plants and parts plants. These are all north of the U.S border.

And that is important because at the end of the day, Jake, you have parts and vehicles crossing between the U.S. and Canada up to seven to nine times before that vehicle is fully assembled. That is the definition of a trading partner, and that is why USMCA, Jake, there we go, MCA, is so critical to Canada and the United States. And President Trump just said in the Oval Office earlier, he's not sure if he's going to renegotiate that.

But all of this really just setting the stage here for just how critical Canada really is to the U.S. economy.

TAPPER: All right. Vanessa Yurkevich, thanks so much. I appreciate it. Joining us now, Democratic Governor Maura Healey of the Great Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Governor Healey, it's always good to see you.

Do you agree with the president's assertion today that the U.S. doesn't need anything from Canada, but Canada needs everything from the U.S.?

GOV. MAURA HEALEY (D-MA): It's totally false, Jake. I mean, you just heard how much many states rely on Canada. I think 36, 34 states have Canada as their largest trading partner. I can tell you all the states in the northeast do. And we need Canada for lumber because we want to build housing, and that's where we get all our lumber from.

I'll tell you, Jake, that when you fly in a Logan airport in Boston, Massachusetts, 90 percent of the jet fuel to make that airport go comes from Canada.

[18:10:07]

Eight out of nine -- eight out of ten cars in the greater Boston area are powered by Canadian crude. So, the list goes on and on and they're an absolutely critical trading partner. They're critical to our state economies here in the northeast and across the country.

TAPPER: You sent a letter along with five other northeast governors inviting the premiers of six Canadian provinces to Boston to discuss trade opportunities. You wrote, quote, as governors of the northeast, we want to keep open lines of communication and cooperation and identify avenues to overcome the hardship of these uninvited tariffs and help our economies endure, unquote. Have you heard back? And what are you hoping to get out of the meeting?

HEALEY: Look, the reason that we did this and I thought it was very important that we joined together northeast governors, we included New York as well, invite all the Canadian premieres, the governors of the Eastern Canadian provinces, including Ontario, to come to Massachusetts so we can talk about the things that we can do together.

We need trade to continue between our states and Canada. We need that for economic purposes, for jobs to keep businesses open. I can tell you the tariffs on Canada already have resulted in stop orders to Massachusetts businesses. People are having to lay off people as a result. It's very damaging.

So, you know, the fact of the matter is that the relationship between the northeast and Canada has been an economic one for decades, it's been a cultural one for decades and it's been a familial one. I think one in five New Englanders are Canadian-Americans. Jake, my grandfather's family came from Newfoundland, you know? And as a kid who grew up waitressing for the better part of ten years in Hampton Beach, New Hampshire, I can tell you that tourism to this region is so dependent on Canada. It's always been that way.

TAPPER: Let's turn to immigration and the president's deportation policies, because you've asserted several times over the past few months that Massachusetts is not a sanctuary state. So, are you saying cities in your state do and should continue to work with federal immigration enforcement authorities?

HEALEY: What we will continue to do is work with federal law enforcement authorities. As you know, Jake, I was a prosecutor. I was attorney general, I actually went after and prosecuted and put away drug cartels and gangs and the like, including folks who were not here legally. I support that. And in Massachusetts, we're going to continue to support the work of the good men and women in law enforcement.

What we're not going to do though is stand down in the face of continued attacks on immigrant communities, people who are paying taxes, who are living here, who are working here, who have kids here. And, you know, that's the concern that a lot of us have right now. My message hasn't changed on this.

TAPPER: You talk about immigrant communities who pay taxes and have kids here, et cetera. Are you including people who are in this country but are undocumented?

HEALEY: We have so many families with mixed status. We have families with green cards right now who are afraid to go for naturalization interviews because they've seen others picked up in the course of those interviews. And I don't think that that's what people were thinking of when there was support to in close the border, which, you know, as somebody who told President Biden that's what needed to happen, you know, I support that. What I don't support is what we see lately with the disappearing of people from streets around America without due process.

I mean, I think as Americans, we understand, you know, law enforcement isn't supposed to come into our home in the middle of the night and take us without cause or take us without due process. And, you know, we've seen that happen and the Trump administration's response seems to be, oh my bad, but with no corrective action. And I think that's what's concerning to a lot of people.

But, I mean, I think the message of today though is about our need as a country to engage. That's why I invited Canadian governors. That's why we need to find ways to continue that trade. We get all of our energy, for example, from Canada. We need that for our economies and what we want to do. And I support somebody like Prime Minister Mark Carney when he said today, you know, U.S. and Canada, we're always stronger when we work together, and I wish we could get back to that.

TAPPER: Governor Maura Healey from the great Commonwealth of Massachusetts, thanks so much for joining us. We always appreciate it.

HEALEY: Great to be with you.

TAPPER: Is this the end of the road for President Trump's controversial pick to serve as the U.S. attorney for Washington D.C.? Why a top Republican senator is admitting they simply don't have the votes to confirm him.

Plus, a ninth day of chaos at Newark Airport, leading to hundreds of flight delays and cancelations, how long is it going to take to fix these major problems?

[18:15:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, a Republican on Capitol Hill doing something that you rarely see, going against President Trump's wishes. The topic at hand, Trump's nominee to serve as U.S. attorney for Washington D.C., his name is Ed Martin. And although some Republicans had expressed reservations, key battleground vote, battleground state vote. Senator Thom Tillis said today he's going to oppose the nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): I met with Mr. Martin. He seems like a good man. Most of my concerns related to January 6th.

Anybody that breached the perimeter should have been in prison for some period of time, whether it's 30 days or 3 years is debatable, but I have no tolerance for anybody who entered the building on January the 6th, and that's probably where most of the friction was.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Ed Martin was an organizer of the group called Stop the Steal.

[18:20:01]

Of course, the election was not stolen. And Mr. Martin defended January 6th defendants and he fired January 6th prosecutors within days of taking the job of U.S. attorney for D.C. on the interim basis. His nomination is now on thin ice.

Let's discuss with my panel. David Urban, we should also point out Ed Martin also praised a January 6th rioter, who's an alleged Nazi sympathizer. You probably remember him, he's got that little Hitler mustache from pictures you've seen him before. Martin has since denounced him, but he has praised him a lot in the past.

Despite this, just last night, President Trump posted on social media, quote, that Ed Martin's approval is imperative and, quote, he will not let you down when someday in the future, you look back at your vote for Ed Martin, you'll be very proud on what you have done for America, unquote. But today, Senate Judiciary Chairman Jack Grassley said it's not over, but he acknowledged that as of now, Martin does not have the votes. What do you think? Do you think Ed Martin's going to make it through?

DAVID URBAN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Listen, so I've known Ed Martin for quite some time, Jake, and he's a good man. You heard Thom Tillis say so. I think you know he has distanced himself, as you said. He is the least anti-Semitic human being I've known. He's prosecuted, I don't know if you remember these folks who defaced the -- vandalist who defaced some of the statues down round by Union Station, aggressively prosecuted those folks. He's been doing an incredible job in the District of Columbia, trying

to restore law and order, prosecuting people who attacked police, previous U.S. attorney. If it was a misdemeanor, if you hit a police officer, Ed Martin, is trying to make it safe for Capitol Hill staffers to walk to work, working with people on Capitol Hill and other places in the district where they feel unsafe. So, yes I think he's doing an incredible job in the district.

As to his past representation of people that, you know, some may find unseemly where, you know, I don't -- I'm obviously not an apologist for anybody on January 6th. I think what was done was reprehensible, but everybody deserves a lawyer. Everyone's entitled to legal representation. If that were the case, you know, the ACLU represents a lot of people that I don't particularly agree with, but I do believe they deserve legal representation in this. It's the same instance. You may not agree with what happened on January 6th, but people deserve lawyers, and I think that's what Ed Martin did.

And, look, I think if you watch Manu full interview --

TAPPER: He was an organizer of that.

URBAN: Thom Tillis says -- Yes. Well, so Thom Tillis says, I would vote for Ed Martin for U.S. attorney for any place other than the District Columbia. I'd let him go if it wasn't for here.

TAPPER: Yes. And then let me play that bite.

URBAN: And then Senator Tillis --

TAPPER: let me play that sound bite. Let's play that sound bite. This is something else Senator Tillis said today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TILLIS: If Mr. Martin were being put forth as a U.S. attorney for any district except the district where January 6th happened, where the protest happened, I'd probably support him, but not in this district.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: So, let me just let Jamal weigh in. And then, Jamal -- David, I'll come back to you in a sec. Let's have Jamal weigh in here. Jamal, what's your reaction?

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm very happy to hear David Urban say that everybody deserves lawyers and everybody deserves their day in court because we're in the middle of another conversation about who gets to have due process if they're picked up for immigration violations, where people seem to think you don't necessarily have to have a lawyer or have your day in court. So, it'd be nice to everybody to agree with David Urban on this.

Listen, I think you can't normalize January 6th. I think that's the problem here is that these guys are trying to put the case out here that what happened on January 6th wasn't an insurrection against the normal functioning of the United States government, and there's just no way to get around that. And I think Thom Tillis is right. I'm glad he's showing the courage to stand up and do it. And I think every other Republican in the Senate who was cowering on that day and hiding out from those January 6th rioters ought to stand up with him.

TAPPER: David?

URBAN: You know, Jake, yes, Jake, I was just going to say, I think, you know, we've all seen the photographs, right? We've all seen the video, the people who struck police officers, I find that abhorrent, right? On the other side of the Capitol, the Supreme Court side, doors were open, police were letting people walk in.

I think there was a -- there's tale of two January 6th for a lot of these defendants. Some of the people -- look, you -- and Thom Tillis says, look, I get that some of the people, they shouldn't have walked in, and he takes particular umbrage with those folks who literally just walked in the back door after the police let them kind of walk in.

I think those people, you know, should be charged, maybe with a misdemeanor, but the people who hit police officers should be charged completely differently. And I think, you know, Senator Tillis, unfortunately, conflates them all together and is standing in the way of a good man who should be confirmed, who should be the U.S. attorney and make D.C. a much safer place, Ed Martin's that man.

SIMMONS: I'm also -- I got to say. I am mystified, but I'm glad to hear that David Urban is the one to take a moment and discern who's an actual rioter and violence steward versus who just might be hanging out with rioters and violence stewards, because I think we are concerned some of the people being picked up on immigration cases because they have tattoos that might look like other people's tattoos, but we're not going to take the time to discern the difference between all these individuals.

[18:25:02]

TAPPER: All right. David Urban and Jamal Simmons, thanks to both of you, I really appreciate it.

Coming up next, what you need to know if you have not yet gotten your, quote/unquote, Real I.D. ahead of tomorrow's deadline. See that star on the top right hand corner? You need to have one with that star.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our National Lead, United Airlines is now offering free ticket changes to some passengers impacted by the ongoing flight delays and cancelations. Let's call it what it is. It's a crisis at Newark's International Airport. Today is the ninth straight day of chaos at Newark with no signs of easing up.

[18:30:01] This all started when the air traffic control systems crashed last week. That led to rolling FAA mandated ground delays, driving some air traffic controllers to take what's called trauma leave.

Just about an hour ago, I asked Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy how long it's going to take to fix the problem with the outdated air traffic control system at that airport.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, U.S. TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: I thought it was going to be eight months, six months. We're pushing to do it faster. Hopefully, this summer, we get that done. But the key is always safety, right? I don't want people to fly. I'd rather have them delayed or canceled. I'd rather have it take six months than two and a half months to build out that communication system because I want people to get from point A to point B safely.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Sticking with our National Lead, tomorrow, the federal government starts enforcing Real I.D. rules at airports. Real I.D. is the security enhanced version of an I.D. card denoted by the little star. See the top right hand corner? That's the sign that you have a real I.D.

The deadline's been a long time coming, but some DMVs were still frenzied scenes today as people rushed to make the switch.

CNN's Danny Freeman was at a DMV today in New Jersey.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The first category is proof of citizenship.

DANNY FREEMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The race is on across the country to get a Real I.D.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm hoping that they extend it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't want to carry my passport around.

FREEMAN: From Chicago to Los Angeles, from Oklahoma to New Jersey, Americans have been scrambling to motor vehicle departments to get the I.D. that meets extra security standards, facing long lines and frustration before the federal deadline goes into effect Wednesday morning.

Were you able to get your Real I.D. today?

TRE GALLIMORE, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: No.

FREEMAN: Tre Gallimore and Asia Jones drove 90 miles from Northern New Jersey to Camden, on the border of Philadelphia, to get their real I.D. process going. But one document was off. GALLIMORE: We offered to go to Nero (ph) Staples and come back, like go print it out and come back. They told no. You got to reschedule it again,

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a little agitated and I'm pregnant and I'm hungry, so it is just like I don't feel like I accomplished anything.

FREEMAN: But late comers are not out of luck. Back in 2005, Congress passed the Real I.D. Act, a recommendation by the 9/11 Commission. The goal was to set standards for the issuance of sources of identification, such as driver's licenses with an eye towards domestic air travel security. But the deadline of getting Americans Real I.D.s was delayed and delayed until this week. And the big looming question has been when this deadline hits, if you don't have a passport or a Real I.D. yet, can you still board your flight with just a regular driver's license?

STEVE LORINCZ, TSA DEPUTY EXECUTIVE ASSISTANT ADMINISTRATOR FOR SECURITY OPERATIONS: The answer is yes.

FREEMAN: The Transportation Security Administration tells CNN domestic flyers without a real I.D. may be subject to additional screening. But for now, they will not be stopped from getting on their flights.

I would make sure that you give yourself sufficient time, you're going to encounter a TSA representative, or an airline, or an airport representative. They will give you direction, but we will process. You'll not be turned away.

FREEMAN: Now, you can still use a passport if you don't have the Real I.D., but make no mistake, the federal government still wants more people to get Real I.D. The Department of Homeland Security estimates about 81 percent of air travelers are currently compliant. Back in Camden, Ezra Katz said he got his appointment Tuesday and successfully filled out his Real I.D. application.

How does it make you feel?

EZRA KATZ, NEW JERSEY RESIDENT: Freedom. I feel it feels good, weight off my shoulders.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FREEMAN (on camera): Now, Jake, the TSA did not give any indication if or when there would come a time when people would be turned away if they did not have their Real I.D. For now, the TSA says their main priority is working with airline customers. Jake?

TAPPER: All right. Danny Freeman in New Jersey, thank you so much.

Our small business series takes us to Virginia next, where an owner says, even though all of his products are assembled in the U.S., Trump's tariffs could put him out of business.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: In our Money Lead, it's Small Business Week. And we're back with more in our series where we talk with small business owners from coast to coast about Mr. Trump's tariffs. Some are optimistic, some support what he's doing, many are not.

Joining us now, Jason Levitt, he's the founder and president of Full Spectrum Power. That's in Alexandria in the Great Commonwealth of Virginia. His organization designs and produces lithium batteries, the kind you find in racing cars and motorcycles. Jason, thanks so much for joining us.

So, you've got a pretty niche business. What part of your process is being hit with tariffs right now?

JASON LEVITT, OWNER, FULL SPECTRUM POWER: Well, actually, all of our sourcing, all of our product sourcing is being tariffed for, you know, really anything outside of the United States. So, we've, out of necessity, developed an international supply chain primarily from China, where our core materials are only available. There are no U.S. manufacturers. In fact, there are no manufacturers anywhere else in the world for this one part, which is the most important part of a lithium battery, the lithium cells.

We do have suppliers in the E.U. and elsewhere as well as in the U.S. But at the moment, everything is being tariffed. Perhaps what makes this the most challenging is that it's difficult to determine what is going to be tariffed, at what rate on which day.

TAPPER: Yes. I guess the bigger question, President Trump wants to move American -- he wants to increase and improve manufacturing in this country. Is it possible to produce lithium batteries entirely in the United States?

LEVITT: Well, at the moment, for a small business like us, absolutely not. And I happen to agree with him about having additional manufacturing capability in the United States. In fact, that's why I started this company. I had like a driving need to build products here personally.

[18:40:02]

I feel very strongly about it and I really enjoy it.

Unfortunately, like I said, lithium battery production, 99.6 percent of all lithium batteries are produced in a 100-kilometer radius of the city of Shenzhen in China. To the extent that batteries are produced in the United States, and to be clear, there are lithium batteries produced here, they're all part of vertically integrated companies, so Tesla, with the assistance of Panasonic, produces cells for their own cars.

Ford took billions of dollars from the American taxpayer to produce a factory to produce lithium for their cars. None of those companies are going to take designs that I have come up with and sell me, you know, a few hundred thousand dollars worth of sales a month. So we can certainly do it but it's a very expensive project, and it's a project that requires a significant ramp up time. Because at the moment, that capability just does not exist.

TAPPER: So, how have you had to change your practices since April, since so-called liberation day, to accommodate these tariffs?

LEVITT: Right. Well, since April, there really isn't much that someone like me, there's not that much that I can do because I have no alternatives, right? So, establishing a lithium battery manufacturing plant that, you know, say, for our own products would cost somewhere in the $100 to $200 million range. And it would take years to set up the factory and recruit the workers and kind of redesign a supply chain to feed that factory.

And understanding this, there's really nothing that I can do other than to continue to build what we have and continue to supply the market with what we have currently. You know, my company's experiencing significant growth. You know, we've picked up the two largest resellers of race car parts in the world, Summit Racing and Jags. We're seeing, you know, very expansive and explosive sales growth. And I'm sitting here crossing fingers and toes hoping that I can continue to meet demand.

TAPPER: Well, I hope that they're watching in the White House today. The business is Full Spectrum Power located in Alexandria, Virginia.

LEVITT: Yes, sir.

TAPPER: The business owner is Jason Levitt. Jason, thanks so much for your time today. We really appreciate it.

The final preparations are underway at the Vatican tonight with the conclave scheduled to start in just hours. Next, meet a dark horse contender to be the next pope.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:46:57]

TAPPER: Our faith lead, with less than 12 hours until the papal conclave convenes, experts are narrowing the field of prospective pontiffs. Among the candidates is Cardinal Pierbattista Pizzaballa, a dark horse candidate from Jerusalem.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond takes a look at the holy city's first ever cardinal and how the Israel-Hamas war focused attention on him.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the old city of Jerusalem, the faith of Jesus Christ endures, outnumbered by jews and Muslims, a small minority of Catholics carry on 2,000 years of religious tradition, and for the last year and a half they have been led by Jerusalem's first cardinal, Pierbattista Pizzaballa.

The late Pope Francis elevated the 60-year-old Italian to the rank of cardinal, one week before the start of the Israel-Hamas war. He is now considered a dark horse candidate for pope after the conflict thrust Pizzaballa into the spotlight.

CARDINAL PIERBATTISTA PIZZABALLA, LATIN PATRIARCH OF JERUSALEM: As pastor, you have to denounce what is going on. You cannot remain silent, just to say go and pray. Of course, you have to pray, but also you have to say a word, a clear word as much as you can, but without becoming part of the struggle, of the fight.

DIAMOND: In the first days of the war, Pizzaballa made international headlines when he said he would take the place of any Israeli hostage. Reactions were largely positive, but not everywhere.

PIZZABALLA: In the Arab world, not that much. Why for the Israeli children and not for the Palestinian children?

My answer was also for them already. No problem. The question was there.

I didn't think. I mean, I was very naive at that moment.

While you are seeing this message, I am in Gaza.

DIAMOND: Like Pope Francis, Pizzaballa has been an outspoken critic of the war. He has visited Gaza twice since October 7th, where a tiny Catholic community struggles to survive.

In many ways, the conflict has come to define his time as cardinal. And in frustration, he admits it has even led him to ask God, where are you?

PIZZABALLA: Then I come to myself, I understand. The question should be, where is man now? What we've done of our humanity? We cannot consider God guilty of what we are doing.

DIAMOND: He bought food aid from Jerusalem's Muslim community, stored it with a Jewish company, and brought it into Gaza.

PIZZABALLA: I see in this sea of darkness a lot of lights everywhere. And this is what gives me hope.

DIAMOND: In his role as the cardinal in Jerusalem, he has spoken with Israeli leaders and Hamas officials.

PIZZABALLA: In this moment, my impression is that the institutional leaders are in a way paralyzed by their role. The lesson I see here is that faith and power don't go well together.

If you want to be free as a religious leader, you have to be independent from any kind of power. Economical power, political power, social power, whatever. And we are not there now.

DIAMOND: Born in a small village in northern Italy, Pizzaballa has spent most of his life in Jerusalem, at the crossroads of culture and conflict.

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He says his faith has helped him through the loss and desperation of the war that surrounds him.

PIZZABALLA: Faith is the only thing you can grasp, you can have in order to keep alive a little light in your life.

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DIAMOND (on camera): Jake, at just 60 years old, Cardinal Pizzaballa is considered quite young to be elected pope at this conclave. Analysts say he might be a better contender for the next time around. But of course, we do know that these conclaves have a history of long shot candidates being elected, including the late Pope Francis -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Our thanks to Jeremy Diamond for that report.

My next guest used to work in the Trump administration, and now he's warning more trouble could be on the horizon for the secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth. He'll tell us why in moments.

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SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Hegseth is a danger to our national security. Our military is supposed to be nonpolitical, and what Hegseth is doing is not only defiling the principle, but diminishing our national defense. And I think at some point, this kind of conduct is impeachable.

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TAPPER: That is Democratic Senator Richard Blumenthal of Connecticut today.

And a reminder to Secretary Hegseth, you have an open invitation to come on the show anytime to talk about what you're doing at the Pentagon.

This, of course, follows a CNN report that Pete Hegseth has ordered the Pentagon to cut 20 percent of the four-star generals and admirals across the military. That's on top of the probe by the Pentagon's inspector general on Hegseth sharing military attack plans on the messaging app Signal on more than one occasion.

My next guest says things could still get much worse for Secretary Hegseth. Here now is Mark Greenblatt. He's the former inspector general at the Interior Department under Trump and Biden. He was also one of 18 inspectors general fired at the start of President Trump's second term.

So, in your article that you wrote for I think that was "The Daily Beast", you note that the inspector general at the Pentagon is conducting an evaluation, not an investigation. What's the difference? And is that important?

MARK GREENBLATT, FORMER INTERIOR DEPARTMENT INSPECTOR GENERAL: Yeah. Jake, this is something I've seen widely reported and it's frankly misreported. It's being pitched as a -- as an investigation by the DOD IG, and that's not what it is. It's an evaluation. And those are very different things.

The evaluation is akin to an audit where they look at the processes behind whatever, you know, issues are at play. In this case, the use of Signal as opposed to an investigation where they're looking at, you know, misconduct by specific individuals on specific instances. And those are very different things.

And so I just want the American public to be aware that that, you know, what the product is going to be. It's going to look more like an audit report than some sort of investigation.

TAPPER: Does the secretary of any department have more power to shut down or to influence this audit, this evaluation, than they would if it was a formal investigation?

GREENBLATT: There are a handful of IGs, I'm sorry, of departments. Secretaries that have a specific authority under the inspector general act to stop or limit an investigation or an audit by an inspector general. DOD is one of them.

So, the secretary of defense does have the authority to prohibit a specific review, be it an investigation or in this case, an evaluation. To my knowledge, that has never happened, though.

TAPPER: Okay. And he hasn't done it yet.

GREENBLATT: Correct.

TAPPER: Or that he may never.

So, this inspector general is the Pentagon inspector general, the Department of Defense. But as I mentioned, you were one of 18 inspectors general fired by President Trump at the very beginning of his administration. You were at the Interior Department.

What has happened to these other 18 positions, that one of which you held and others? Are there acting inspectors general? Is there nothing going on? Is -- are they -- I mean, is there no oversight over these departments?

GREENBLATT: No, no, no, absolutely. There's oversight going on right now. There are 14,000 people in the OIG community writ large across the federal government. And those folks, day in and day out, are still conducting audits, investigations, what have you, into their departments. So, I think the American public can rest assured that on the ground, those -- that work is continuing to be done, and they're led right now by acting inspectors general. This is the deputies or other senior executives who were there before. For example, my deputy at the -- at the Department of the Interior,

Office of Inspector. General is now the acting inspector general. And she's phenomenal.

So that's happening throughout. But is there a chilling effect? That's the concern here is that, you know, do the removals of sitting IGs have a chilling effect on the oversight going forward. That's the -- that's the nightmare scenario.

TAPPER: Why -- you know, why would there be a chilling effect. And what makes somebody an inspector general instead of an acting?

GREENBLATT: So, an actual inspector general, for the half of them is being presidentially appointed and Senate confirmed, like I was and the others who were removed. And they haven't nominated anybody.

TAPPER: They have nominated two, one for HHS and one for the department of labor. Both of them are very problematic because they're political actors. They have ethics clouds hanging over them, ethical baggage.

And they've been advocating policy issues on the areas that they be overseeing. In one case, against abortion clinics and then another case in favor of unions. Well, these are the areas that they would be leading, the oversight that they would be leading in terms of HHS, or labor. So, those are very problematic nominees.

GREENBLATT: All right. Mark Greenblatt, thanks so much. Appreciate it.

I have two books coming out. On May 20th, I have a book called "Original Sin". That's in just two weeks. It's about President Biden's disastrous decision to run for reelection and the cover up of his decline. Yeah, I said cover up.

In October, we have a book called "Race Against Terror". It's about the hunt to prosecute an al-Qaeda terrorist who killed Americans and was out to kill more. You can check them out, both of them at jaketapper.com. Preorder them.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now. Thanks for watching. I'll see you tomorrow.