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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Robert Prevost is First American Elected Pope, Takes Name Leo XIV; Trump Pulls Nomination of Ed Martin for Top D.C. Federal Prosecutor; V.P. Vance Says, India-Pakistan Conflict is None of Our Business. Trump Says Jeanine Pirro Will Be Interim U.S. Attorney For D.C.; Transportation Secretary Announces Air Traffic Control System Overhaul; White House Praises Columbia University After 80 Arrested In Anti-Israel Protest. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 08, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:00:00]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

And this hour, Leo XIV, the very first pope from the USA, born in Chicago, went to Villanova University right outside Philly. In moments, I'm going to speak with a reverend who is a long time friend of the new pope.

Plus, fixing major troubles in our U.S. air travel, the plan for corrections announced today by the secretary of transportation. Will it be enough?

Also, new strikes between India and Pakistan as both sides accuse the other of escalating warfare. How bad could it get? Could President Trump do more to push for peace? Pakistan's ambassador to the United States will be here.

And here in the U.S., the head of FEMA fired just one day after he publicly expressed a view that did not quite align with what we have heard from the Trump administration,

The Lead Tonight, Cardinal Robert Prevost, now Pope Leo XIV, the very first U.S.-born pope in the history of the Papacy, his very first words to the world, peace be with you all.

CNN's Erin Burnett is live in Rome and witnessed history as Pope Leo XIV addressed the world. Erin?

ERIN BURNETT, CNN ANCHOR: You know, Jake, it was an incredible moment and it was, everyone here, tens and tens of thousands witnesses to history. And so much waiting and anticipation when the smoke finally came up and that it was white smoke. It was very clear instantly that it was, and then even more people flooded in and flooded in, an atmosphere, Jake, of jubilation and anticipation and happiness, which is in such short supply these days. And then they come out, they know there's a pope. Everyone said, well, we're just so happy. We are just so happy. They didn't care who the pope was.

Then we find out that the pope is indeed making history in this incredible moment, the first American pope, as you say, Cardinal Prevost of Chicago, now Pope Leo XIV. And, you know, I think the Americans in the crowd, an incredible moment, a stunning moment. There has not been a single person, Jake, who knows him, who is an American in the church, who had any expectation that this would happen. He had been profiled perhaps, in some cases, maybe, oh, if there were an American, it would be, but nobody actually thought it would happen, and here we are.

And then in that address, Jake, we thought we'd wait about a half an hour from finding out there was a pope to saying who it was. It took more than an hour. Because, as you said, he gave that first -- those first words of blessing and then spoke. He clearly had then spent the time to write his address to the tens of thousands who were here. He talked about a missionary church. He talked about Pope Francis. He talked about building bridges in a unified church, crucial words that seemed to indicate that he is going to continue to take the mantle of Pope Francis and bring it forward, even though he is known in some ways as being a more conservative cardinal. It is an incredible moment, though, Jake to have witnessed such a thing, and to have seen it happen in such an unexpected way and truly have something so stunning happen.

TAPPER: What was the reaction like from folks once it became clear that Pope Leo XIV is the very first American pope in the history of the world?

BURNETT: I mean, Jake, you sense, you know, people's eyes kind of bug out and they say, wait, what did I hear? Because, you know, you're hearing it over the loudspeaker. You're hearing Latin. You're hearing -- did we hear Roberto? Roberto? Oh, that's Robert, right, and people start to put it together, takes a second or two to sink in.

And then that sort of stunned the first American pope. It is something that I don't know anyone who thought that something like this would happen in their lifetime. It had been seen as just a basic thing that Americans would not, that America was, you know. Already too dominant of a country in so many ways, and there would not be an American pope. And then you layer in, of course, the whole context of current geopolitical relations and America's withdrawal from the world. It just was not seen as something that could happen.

And no doubt, Jake, that those cardinals in that room, the most diverse group of cardinals from more countries around the world than have ever been represented in a Conclave knew the statement that they were making by choosing an American pope.

[18:05:06]

And not just an American pope, he is a dual citizen. And in 2015, he also got Peruvian citizenship, so both a North American and a South American pope born in Chicago.

TAPPER: Right. Don't forget that he went to college outside Philly though. Erin Burnett, thanks so much. Erin will have much more --

BURNETT: And where all the greats go to school.

TAPPER: Erin will have much more from Rome and the Vatican at the very top of the hour, 7:00 P.M. Eastern, right after we wrap up here on The Lead.

Let's bring in Father Rob Hagan now. He has known Pope Leo XIV for more than 25 years. They met in the Midwest Augustinian Providence of Our Good Mother of Good Counsel located in Chicago. Father Rob, thank you so much for joining us.

First of all, until today, what do you call the pope when you call him? And tell us about your friendship with Pope Leo XIV, what this means personally for you.

REV. ROBERT HAGAN, O.S.A., FRIEND OF PEOPE LEO XIV: We're just overjoyed. To see him walk to that balcony, it was like watching a family member step up there. As Augustinians, you know, we refer to each other by their first name. I mean, he's always been Bob. He we refer to each other as brothers, all of us. He happened to have served in the Midwest where he's from, as an Augustinian friar at the time that I was just joining.

And so at the time, I kind of looked up to him. He'd been in the order for, you know, probably, you know, 15 or more years longer than I when I was just joining. And he just -- you could tell right away, he's incredibly bright. You know, it's come out that he speaks multiple languages. But he's not condescending. He's warm. He has a sense of humor. He's friendly.

And so I'm just -- as Augustinians, we're just overjoyed that the world will come to know Leo XIV as the man that we already know, as someone who really is welcoming, has a real desire to help those who are struggling, those who are on the margins, the poor in society, and he spent his whole life doing it. So, when you really think back, I'm not surprised that someone like Pope Francis would have tapped him on the shoulder to be a cardinal and to emerge out of the conclave, as much as there were cardinals and human beings in there, as people of faith, we also believe that the Holy Spirit was in there.

And so we truly believe that this is manifesting God's will for our church and our world. And so it's very humbling. And I know that he is going to be a wonderful Holy Father for the flock.

TAPPER: The name Leo derives from the Latin word for lion, which obviously suggests strength. It suggests courage. Does that accurately describe Pope Leo XIV?

HAGAN: It does. He's a strong man, both internally and out. He's always been someone I would say that's kept himself in shape. So, I think, you know, physically, God willing, you know, he's a physically strong person, but he has a certain depth. He's centered. He's a peaceful, serene person. He's had a lot of big jobs.

And so during the course of his time, you know, there are issues that need to be discussed, and he can do so with a certain calm demeanor, accept descending points of view to make sure that all the voices around the table are heard and listened to. And so I think that it's an apt description, you know? And someone that I think has -- he's internally, spiritually and mentally strong.

TAPPER: This is the very first U.S.-born pope in the history of the world. He was born in Chicago. He is a graduate of Nova, outside Philly. It's a pope a lot of Americans can relate to. I'm sure a lot of Americans are going through right now what we're going through on our show. Our producer, Natalie, says, hey, look, my uncle, you know, was blessed by the pope a few years ago. What do you think this papacy means for the United States?

HAGAN: You know, I think, you know, I'm an American. I love America. I love the values that we stand for. And I think, you know, sometimes we're not perfect, right? We have flaws. I think sometimes the perception of us is rightly deserved in terms of things that we could do better at and work on.

But I think in Leo XIV, we have what really is the best that America stands for, for peace, for justice, that everyone has a role to play, that there should be opportunities for all.

[18:10:14]

And so I think as Americans, I think we can be very proud that he represents and stands for those core values that will now be shared on the world stage.

TAPPER: I have a silly question to ask before I let you go, which is, it is right now a little controversial. It's a little dispute going on in Chicago right now. Is the pope a Cubs fan or a White Sox fan?

HAGAN: I honestly don't know. I'm a Phillies fan, so I'm not sure.

TAPPER: Well, of course, you are.

HAGAN: I know he roots for the Wildcats, as do I.

TAPPER: Yes.

HAGAN: So, I'm sure that'll come out.

TAPPER: All right, Father Bob. If you could, first of all, bless our bullpen this year in Philadelphia, that would be fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us, Father Rob Hagan, great to have you on.

What Pope Leo's election could mean for the future of women in the Catholic Church? We're going to talk about that next.

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TAPPER: And we're back with more on our Faith Lead, as Catholics around the world celebrate the election of their brand new Pope Leo XIV.

With me now is Canon Lawyer Dawn Eden Goldstein. And as you explained to me earlier, you are a convert to Catholicism.

DAWN EDEN GOLDSTEIN, CANON LAWYER: That's right.

TAPPER: And people are wondering about the Goldstein.

GOLDSTEIN: Yes, that's right.

TAPPER: So, Pope Leo presided over some of Pope Francis' most revolutionary reforms, including expanding the role of women within the Vatican. So, what do you think the election of Pope Leo XIV means for women in the church?

GOLDSTEIN: I would say, Jake, that it means two things, and these things may seem to the outside world to be in conflict. But to someone who knows Catholic theology, especially under Pope Francis, they're actually quite compatible.

Number one, he's going to hold the line against women's ordination. So, he's not in favor, at least at the time of --

TAPPER: No women priests, no women cardinals?

GOLDSTEIN: Right, no women deacons either. At the same time, he's very much in favor of what Pope Francis has done in terms of involving women in governance at some of the highest levels of the Holy Sea.

In 2022, Pope Francis placed three women on the dicastery for bishops as like full members of the dicastery. And Pope Leo praised that decision. So, I think he's going to continue with the line taken by Pope Francis. The doors that Pope Francis opened for women are not going to be closed.

TAPPER: So, I introduced you as a canon lawyer. Pope Leo is also a canon lawyer. Can you explain to people out there who don't know what that is?

GOLDSTEIN: Sure, happy to. So, canon law is the internal law of the church. Most people will know it best as that somebody they know or they themselves sought an annulment, sought to have a marriage declared null by the church so that they could marry for a second time in the church. But canon law also ensures justice in the church, justice for everyone, laity, clergy. It also has to do with the discipline, penalties, safeguards against abuse.

Most of all, according to the very last canon in the code of canon law, canon law is about the salvation of souls. So, if there's something in the law that seems to harm someone's salvation, they're supposed to go -- the canon lawyers are supposed to go on the side of mercy, ultimately.

TAPPER: Pope Francis made Pope Leo when he was still a cardinal the prefect for the dicastery of bishops. What does that tell you about the relationship between the two men? GOLDSTEIN: That Pope Francis greatly trusted the man we now know as Pope Leo. Because being prefect of the dicastery of bishops, one, is listening to all kinds of opinions as to why this priest would make a great bishop of this diocese.

And some of these opinions may be more political, more ideological. Pope Francis believed that the man we now have as Pope Leo could look beyond ideology, that he was a man of sincere and grounded faith.

TAPPER: What do you make of his selection of the name Leo for to be the pope?

GOLDSTEIN: That's tremendous. And it makes me want to cry because he's carrying in the tradition of Pope Leo XIII 13th, the great pope of labor of the workers. It's from Leo XIII that we have the understanding of what's called the preferential option for the poor, where the church teaches that with every social policy, the needs of the poor need to be considered first.

So, no matter how much more formal Pope Leo may appear than Francis, no matter how much he may appear more traditional liturgically or in some other ways, he has a heart for the poor, like Pope Francis.

TAPPER: All right. Dawn Eden Goldstein, thank you so much for being here. Really interesting stuff, I appreciate it. And, by the way, Dawn Eden Goldstein wrote a book, let me just hold it up here, called Father Ed, The Story of Bill W.'s Spiritual Sponsor, Bill W., of course, the founder of Alcoholics Anonymous.

Coming up, brand new comments from Vice President J.D. Vance that may explain President Trump's somewhat passive and friendly approach so far when it comes to the recent -- I'm sorry, passive approach to the recent escalation between India and Pakistan, CNN is also live on both sides of the border. That's next.

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TAPPER: On a day where President Trump scored an accomplishment, a big accomplishment, announcing his first revised trade deal, this one with the U.K., we're also watching some controversies play out with some of his top picks for his administration. Today, the president said he will pull his nomination of Ed Martin for the D.C. prosecutor after Martin faced pushback from even some Republicans on Capitol Hill.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He's a terrific person, and he wasn't getting the support from people that I thought.

I can only lift that little phone so many times in a day.

(END VIDEO CLIP) TAPPER: Sources still CNN the president is considering a former Fox News Host Jeanine Pirro to replace Martin as the top D.C. federal prosecutor.

With me now, CNN Political Commentator Shermichael Singleton and Karen Finney, also joining us, former White House speech writer for George W. Bush, Jonathan Horn, who is out with a brand new book. It's titled The Fate of the Generals. So, I'll get to that in one second.

But, Shermichael, let me ask you. This is one of those rare times for Republicans actually opposed one of the president's picks, not every Republican, but enough to block Ed Martin. Were you surprised?

[18:25:00]

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I wasn't surprised. It was already controversial going into it. Some Republicans had already signaled that they weren't necessarily certain if Mr. Martin would have enough votes to get out of committee, and the president made the right decision by saying, look, we're going to pull him and nominate someone else.

And I just have to say, Jake, oftentimes we hear that Republicans in Congress will cower to the president, whatever he wants, he's going to get. Well, here's an example of the legislative branch saying, well, on this one, Mr. President, we're not going to give you this guy, select someone else.

TAPPER: And, Karen, now it looks like Jeanine Pirro could likely become the replacement for Martin. We should note for people who don't know this, like Shermichael, who's young. You probably --

SINGLETON: Just throw it out there, Jake.

TAPPER: You probably know, but you are a youngster. She was the district attorney for Westchester County, an elected position. So, I mean, it's not like she has no experience. Do you think -- I'm sure you knew it. I was --

SINGLETON: I did know it.

TAPPER: We envy the young.

SINGLETON: I don't know if I was alive then though. When was this?

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, wow, wow.

TAPPER: Years ago. We envy the young. Anyway, do you think Republicans are going to rally around her?

FINNEY: Sure. They're rallying around Pete Hegseth, and he's out there, you know, using Signal to pass on, you know, war plans. So, sure, go ahead, another Fox host, you know, put her on in such an important position.

Here's why I think those interesting real quick about this other nomination getting pulled and that one of the nominations with HHS getting pulled. I think Republicans are finding places where they can try to put their foot down, so to speak, in part because I think they're getting a lot of heat about the economy, about the tariffs, about the impact that's having on people. And, you know, the midterm elections are getting closer.

TAPPER: What do you think, I mean, George W. Bush, I mean, he had a fairly supportive Congress, but he had more pushback than Donald Trump is getting.

JONATHAN HORN, FORMER PRESIDENTIAL SPEECHWRITER, G.W. BUSH ADMINISTRATION: I think to have a little bit of pushback from the Senate is the best thing that could happen to this president at this stage. He needs these guardrails to be able to succeed as president.

TAPPER: So, Jonathan, one of the reasons we wanted to have you on is because your new book, The Fate of The Generals, is about two American generals who fought in the Philippines during World War II. And President Trump declared today, May 8th, Victory Day as a day to remember the end of World War II. This is how it is celebrated in Europe, by the good guys in Europe, not the bad guys. Well, I don't know what Russia is anymore, but still, you take my point. But the war was not over for the United States on May 8th because the United States was fighting not just in Europe, but also in the Pacific, and the war against the Japanese didn't end until September.

Are you bothered at all by President Trump saying that today is victory in Europe or victory in World War II today?

HORNE: Yes, I'm tremendously bothered by it. And it would've come as news to American service members fighting in the Pacific during the months of June, July and August 1945. I just wrote a book, as you mentioned, and it's about the highest ranking American prisoner of War of World War II. His name was General Wainwright, and some of his hardest months as a prisoner of war came after V.E. day. And if you look at his diary, he's saying, I don't know if I'm going to live to see the end of this conflict. He thought it could go on for another two winters in 1945. So this is an insult to General Wainwright, and it's an insult to everybody who served in the Pacific theater of the war.

TAPPER: Shermichael, what do you think about President Trump declaring May 8th of victory in World War II Day when actually World War II didn't end on May 8th, it ended in September?

SINGLETON: Yes. Look, it was a complicated battle. And I think you certainly want to recognize and not minimize the, I guess, lives lost and the amount of rather ferocious fighting that many American troops experienced for our freedom, but also for the freedom of our allies in the western world. I don't know. I think the president's intent's probably good here, I would imagine, but I wouldn't want to minimize it. I wouldn't want to forget individuals who continue to fight beyond what ended for the Europeans while it was still continuing for us. So, Jake, I would just say, let's just put the focus on everyone who gave their lives to keep our freedom. I want to ask you about this, Karen. Sorry to interrupt. But today, first Lady Melania Trump unveiled a new stamp dedicated to former First Lady Barbara Bush. Friends and family of the Bushes were there. There was a notable absence, her son, George W. Bush, the former president. Obviously no love lost between him and President Trump. Did you read anything into that?

FINNEY: Well, I suspect that he didn't feel like he wanted to be there to support, in a way, that might show support for this administration. I mean, he's been pretty low key actually with a couple of exceptions. I mean, he did come to the inauguration.

But can I just really quickly on this today, declaring today. This is the president who is looking for any kind of wins he can get at this point. I mean, declaring, you know, this big agreement with the U.K., when it's my understanding the disparity, it's 1 percent that we're -- 1 percentage point that we're actually talking about. So, you know, they are probably looking at the same data the Democrats are looking at, which shows people are -- 75 percent of people at the YouGov poll upset about the tariffs, upset about the economy, question this president's leadership.

TAPPER: Very quickly, do you read anything to George W. Bush not being here?

HORN: Well, President Bush has tried hard to stay out of the limelight since leaving office. And my guess is if he thought if he showed up, the news story would all be about President Trump and President Bush meeting and we wouldn't be talking about the legacy of Barbara Bush.

TAPPER: Barbara Bush, all right. Thanks so much one and all for being here.

The intensifying deadly conflict in Kashmir tops our worldly today. Today, explosions in a total blackout in Jammu, an Indian-administered city in the hotly contested Himalayan region, while officials in Pakistan claim the military shot down Indian drones across the country and killed dozens of Indian soldiers near the line of control.

This afternoon, Vice President Vance weighed in. Take a listen.

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J.D. VANCE, U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: India has its gripes with Pakistan. Pakistan has responded to India. What we can do is try to encourage these folks to deescalate a little bit, but we're not going to get involved in the middle of war. That's fundamentally none of our business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We're going to cover this now from India and from Pakistan.

CNN's Nic Robertson is in Islamabad, Pakistan, CNN's Matthew Chance is in New Delhi. Nic, you visited the line of control recently. You hiked into Kashmir. What is the situation on the ground right now?

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes. Right now, along that line of control, there's intense shelling. People are beginning to flee the border area, an exodus, as some of the locals there are describing it. So, that's pretty hot, pretty active. J.D. Vance's describing it as a war that's going to sound right to those people here in the rest of Pakistan.

29 drones over the past 24 hours came over from India. They went to Karachi in the south. Four soldiers, four military personnel injured in Lahore. That's the massive city. 30 million people, just 30 miles from the border with India. And just down the road from here, ten miles away in Rawalpindi, where there's a massive cricket tournament going on. Foreign minister saying the stadium there was hit by one of those incoming missiles.

The country's on edge. The schools are closed here in Islamabad. Tomorrow, major exam across the country are being canceled in Punjab along the east of the country here at border of India. Of course, schools all closed there.

So, there's a real feeling that this is rolling on in a way that the country has not experienced before these drones. This is different. And as far as the sort of cross border that Pakistani officials here are telling us about what the Indian government is saying on their side, they're saying India is mounting a phantom defense. So not just drones, not just rockets, not just artillery, not just gunfire, the war of words rationing up too.

TAPPER: And, Matthew, Indian officials say, schools in Punjab, just south of Kashmir, will be closed for the next three days. It sounds as though India and Pakistan are prepared for the possibility of even more escalation.

MATTHEW CHANCE, CNN CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it does sound like that. You're right. Schools in Punjab are going to be closed for the next few days, as are schools in Indian-administered Kashmir and universities as well. Also, the Indian government has canceled all leave, the civil servants in the country, in preparation for what it says is a potential emergency response. And so that all gives that impression that the country is sort of bracing itself for further escalation within the past couple of hours. You mentioned it already, but, you know, we were hearing these reports. We can't go there ourselves, unlike Nic over there in Pakistan.

But we are hearing reports that the city of Jammu, which is one of the main cities in Indian-administered Kashmir, has been plunged into darkness. There have been explosions in the skies over the city. It's not quite clear what exactly has been going on. But there have been repeated drone strikes and aerial strikes against, you know, locations inside India at least reported by the by the Indian authorities. India has since then accused Pakistan of striking two military bases in Indian-administered Kashmir, and one in that neighboring state of Punjab as well. And so, yes, you're right. Look, tensions incredibly high on both sides of the border, Jake.

TAPPER: Nic Robertson in Pakistan, Matthew Chance in India, thanks to both of you. Stay safe.

Pakistan's ambassador to the U.S. is going to join me here in studio right after this.

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[18:35:00]

TAPPER: Back with more in our World Lead and the conflict between India and Pakistan. And joining us now, Pakistan's Ambassador to the U.S. Rizwan Saeed Sheikh. Mr. Ambassador, thank you so much for being here. We appreciate it.

So, U.S. Secretary of State Marco Rubio spoke separately with top officials from India and top officials from Pakistan today. The State Department says, Rubio told your Prime Minister Muhammad Shehbaz Sharif to, quote, take concrete steps to end any support for terrorist groups. This comes as India is accusing Pakistan of harboring terrorist groups. What is your response?

RIZWAN SAEED SHEIKH, PAKISTANI AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: Well, in this heavily securitized history of this region, where the two countries have actually fought three wars, and the history has expressed itself in a security idiom, you know, presumptuous pretext like the pilgrim (ph) attack having taken place from Pakistan without a shred of evidence, I think, is preposterous.

And nobody in this situation in this region, which has a nuclear capability, wants to set a template of going for attacks, aggression, provocative aggression that has been taking place over past 48 hours, actually more started by India, escalated by India. It's the third night. Pakistan has exercised its right to self-defense.

[18:40:00]

But, basically, this is not the kind of simplified version of the security situation in the region that I think the world wants to see.

So, whatever has to be said has to be supported by evidence. And Pakistan at the leadership level has certainly offered to conduct impartial inquiry, independent inquiry, neutral inquiry, and we would be participating in it.

TAPPER: So, Pakistan has called for this investigation, as you note. There's this little known militant group or terrorist group called the Resistance Front. It's linked to Islamist Extremists Lashkar-e-Taiba, which -- and this group claimed responsibility for the attack on social media, they local reports also say they walked it back.

Do you know which group was responsible for the terrorist attack that killed 26 tourists on April 22nd in the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir? SHEIKH: Well, the 26 tourists killed in the Indian illegally occupied part of Jammu and Kashmir were basically an attack that took place 30 kilometers-plus from the line of control. So, we are asking for inquiry because we want to know. Why would we know? Had we known, why would we ask for inquiry? And just going ahead and exercising provocation aggression on an arch rival is something that Pakistan has bearing with a degree of restraint thus far. But as we were pointing out that we would not be the ones going for escalation, India did, now the responsibility for de-escalation is on India.

But there are constraints on restraint. Pakistan reserves the right to respond back. There is enough pressure from our public opinion on the government to respond and respond we will, because this aggression has been going on now for too long.

TAPPER: Earlier today, CNN interview the Indian ambassador to the United States. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VINAY KWATRA, INDIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE U.S.: When we did this day before yesterday, our assumption was that we have completed what we set out to do ourselves, vis-a-vis the terrorist. We, from our perspective, had brought a certain finality to it, but it was, of course, subject to whether Pakistan has brought finality to it. Pakistan chose to escalate it further. Now, it's duty-bound for us to respond to that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: They say they were responding to the terrorist attack that killed 26.

SHEIKH: No, there is no situation like responding to the terrorist attack by attacking a sovereign country. Is that a template that the international community would want to set going forward, without any --

TAPPER: I'm just saying what they say. They say --

SHEIKH: Yes. I mean, they are they can say what they want to say. But attacking Pakistan and expecting us to sit back like sacrificial lambs and not responding is something that they shouldn't even have thought of. And whatever has been done the third night has on each night by -- being initiated by India. And Pakistan has only been responding in self-defense. Our civilians have been killed, 3- plus civilians, 57- plus casualties. What kind of terrorist infrastructure they were attacking, civilian lives have been lost. Why did they attack a cricket field? Where is the terrorist infrastructure expected in the cricket field?

TAPPER: Is there any conversation going on at all between Indian Pakistan right now?

SHEIKH: I think there have been context at the level of NSCs, but then this escalation, both in terms of the actions that have been taken and in terms of the rhetoric that is coming out, has to stop. We do not expect lectures from a regime that is operating on the basis of Hindu philosophy. I mean, that is preposterous. I mean, look at the record of India. They have hegemonistic designs for the region, whatever they have been doing in Sri Lanka and Nepal. Why is that this is the only country which has problem with every other country in the region?

TAPPER: Marco Rubio, the secretary of state, says that in Pakistan needs to, quote, take concrete steps to end any support for terrorist groups. You don't think you need to?

SHEIKH: Well, what terrorist groups? Pakistan followed the Fatah (ph) requirements. All those structures that were there have been dismantled with the degree of finality. Otherwise, we wouldn't have gotten out of the (INAUDIBLE) under the Fatah arrangement.

So, what -- I mean, without evidence, how can just you finger point and then start an aggression in a nuclear neighborhood? How responsible is that? And what kind of precedent we are setting in this kind of a neighborhood situation?

TAPPER: Pakistan's Ambassador to the United States Rizwan Saeed Sheikh, we appreciate you coming here and taking your questions. Thank you so much, sir.

SHEIKH: Thank you.

TAPPER: Praying for peace in India and Pakistan, all of us are, I'm sure.

Fixing America's outdated air traffic control system is our story next. The problems have created dangerous situations, even in recent days. The corrective action announced just hours ago by Secretary of Transportation Sean Duffy.

[18:45:02]

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: This just in to CNN, it is official, Jeanine Pirro, former Fox personality and former Westchester County district attorney, will be appointed interim United States attorney for the District of Columbia. President Trump announced the pick on Truth Social just a few moments ago. She, of course, is a Fox host and former prosecutor. As I said, she's replacing the embattled Ed Martin, whose nomination was clearly in trouble amid what seemed like insurmountable pushback from not only Democrats, but even some Republicans on Capitol Hill.

So, all right, there's that. In our national lead, the nation's air traffic control system is getting a major facelift in an effort to make flying even safer. New air traffic control centers, new radar, decades old technology getting replaced.

Here's Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy unveiling the bold new plan earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: All the front facing equipment for controllers, all the back-end systems for controllers, all brand new. All new hardware, all new software is going to be built into this brand new air traffic control system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN aviation correspondent Pete Muntean is with me.

Pete, you just spoke with Secretary Duffy. What did he tell you about this major overhaul?

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Duffy essentially laid out a huge and sweeping overhaul here that will be a huge new priority of the Trump administration.

[18:50:04]

And he told me that conditions could be just right to bring air traffic control into the 21st century. Need all backed up by reports from the Government Accountability Office. The most recent one said FAA actions are urgently needed to modernize systems.

Here's the rub described to me by a member of Congress. This is like changing the spark plugs of your car while you're still driving it, because the air traffic control system runs around the clock. The issues were just highlighted by the Newark air traffic control meltdown on April 28th. That led to those staffing shortages and days of delays. Aging equipment has been pinpointed as the cause, and Duffy told me that incident is now a call to action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUFFY: And this is -- I mean, this is real. And you've actually lost controllers because they were so stressed when that happened. And so, what I would tell you is what you saw in Newark, you will see variations of that throughout the airspace in the coming years unless -- unless we undertake this -- this mission.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: As Duffy made this announcement, he was flanked by the equipment that controllers use. We're talking about cathode ray tubes for radar screens, about as old as I am.

Here's what's in the Trump administration's plan: replace more than 600 radars, rebuild six air traffic control centers, replace the copper wiring at 4,600 air traffic facilities with fiber optic cable.

Transportation Secretary Duffy insists he can do this in 3 to 4 years, and I was skeptical on the show on Tuesday. And Duffy even mentioned that today, Duffy said this administration will not move at the typical pace of government, and you could start seeing changes within a year.

TAPPER: What is the secretary's plan to get this done as quickly as he wants to -- to do it? And how much will it cost?

MUNTEAN: The cost estimates really vary, $12 billion to $30 billion, depending on who you ask. Duffy says if he's able to get the money up front from Congress, he can meet the timeline here.

Also, if this administration is able to reform the permitting process, the industry is fully on board here and we heard support today from unions, trade associations, even manufacturers like Boeing.

One interesting moment here to, Jake, the CEOs from five of the biggest U.S. airlines literally lined up in support of this. These are all fierce rivals. A lot of history here. United CEO, Scott Kirby, told me live on the air today that if the Trump administration is able to pull this off, this will be a historic move.

TAPPER: Well, let's hope that they're able to pull it off. Lives are literally on the line.

Pete Muntean, great reporting. Thanks so much. And I'm glad Secretary Duffy watches THE LEAD. Exciting to hear.

Coming up, the Trump administration's unusual response after protests and arrests last night at Columbia university.

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[18:56:52]

TAPPER: In our national lead, the Trump administration says that they're feeling, quote, encouraged by an Ivy League university.

Yes, you heard that correctly. Last night, Columbia University administrators called in the NYPD after a group of anti-Israel protesters broke into the campus library and stayed even after police officers asked them to leave.

CNN's Omar Jimenez reports live from New York.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Tonight, only a Columbia ID or being a faculty guest gets you onto campus after this.

Demonstrators took over a reading room of Butler Library on campus, leading to confrontations with public safety officers and at least two injured, according to the university.

CLAIRE SHIPMAN, ACTING PRESIDENT, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Violence and vandalism, hijacking a library, none of that has any place on our campus. These aren't Columbia's values.

JIMENEZ: The protests materialized Wednesday afternoon, with at least one student coalition calling for the library to be renamed for a Palestinian killed in an Israeli raid in 2017. Though it's unclear if all of those demonstrating were there for that cause.

This comes about a year. After pro-Palestinian protesters at the university began a wave of. Demonstrations on campus, in large part for the university to divest from companies that have ties to Israel. In this case, the university ultimately called on the New York City police to help break up the demonstration.

SHIPMAN: The students were told they simply needed to identify themselves and then leave, but most refused.

JIMENEZ: According to the NYPD, 78 people who, quote, did not comply with verbal warnings by the NYPD to disperse were arrested, and two others were issued summonses. It's unclear what charges those arrested may face, but it also comes under the increased microscope of the Trump administration.

Secretary of State Marco Rubio posting in part we are reviewing the visa status of the trespassers and vandals who took over Columbia University's library. Two international students at Columbia who were involved in previous protests, Mahmoud Khalil and Mohsen Mahdawi, were detained by immigration enforcement this year and threatened with deportation.

The administration has also threatened to pull public funding at Columbia, in part over how protests and antisemitism itself have been handled.

SHIPMAN: Columbia unequivocally rejects antisemitism and all other forms of harassment and discrimination, and we certainly reject a group of students, and we don't know yet whether they were outsiders involved closing down a library in the middle of the week before finals.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ (on camera): Now, the Trump administration is actually encouraged by Columbia's response here, at least according to a statement from the administration's Task Force on Antisemitism. I should note the library is back open again, but this is the reality outside campus, you see signs that display your student ID, ID required for entry, and then, of course, those coming in need to actually check in with this desk before being let in to campus, Jake.

TAPPER: And our thanks to Omar Jimenez for that report.

I have two books coming out, as you may have heard. The first, in just 12 days, Tuesday, May 20th. One week, five days, "Original Sin", it's about President Biden's decision to run for reelection, which was disastrous, and the cover up of his decline.

And then in October, I have another book. It's called "Race Against Terror", about the hunt to prosecute an Al Qaeda terrorist who killed Americans and was out to kill more. You can check them both out, preorder them at jaketapper.com.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT", live from Rome. What an exciting day for her. That starts now.