Return to Transcripts main page
The Lead with Jake Tapper
Update On Shooting Of Two Israeli Embassy Staffers; Man Accused Of Killing Israeli Embassy Staffers In Dc Charged With Murder; DC Shooting Victims Identified As Yaron Lischinsky & Sarah Milgrim; Trump Wins Major Victory In U.S. Supreme Court; Gov. Josh Green (D-HI), Is Interviewed About First MAHA Report Focuses On Vaccines, Food, Pesticides. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired May 22, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
JEANINE PIRRO, INTERIM U.S. ATTORNEY FOR WASHINGTON DC: Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has there been any indication from the investigation so far that the subject was on the radar for the FBI or some other investigative agency around the country? Was he involved in any activism that might have put him on the radar?
And also, if you would, also on the issue of whether there were anybody else connected to him, obviously those writings were posted and the timing of that. We're wondering whether you've indicated you've seen any indication that someone connected to him might have been associated with posting those.
STEVEN JENSEN, FBI ASSISTANT DIRECTOR IN CHARGE: So a lot of questions. Let me try and break it down. Chief, I think you addressed some of this yesterday. When we first initially briefed the public on this matter, there was nothing in criminal records or in our holdings that indicated that this person was previously known to us or would have popped on our radar or MPD's radar.
We know that he originated outside of the District, came in for a conference on May 20, and was a resident in the Chicagoland area. That's what we know about him currently.
As far associates, relatives, the reason we're checking associates and relatives is to put all the pieces together. There's a lot of unknowns. So known contacts, known relatives, known associates.
These are basic investigative steps to put a picture, composite picture together of who the subject is, what did people know about him and who is he closest to. From that, we'll build out the investigation. Aside from that, I couldn't answer more.
KEITH ALEXANDER, COURTS WRITER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Keith Alexander, Washington Post. Were you seeking the death penalty? You talked a little bit about that. And also the night of May 20, any idea where he stayed at all? PIRRO: I think -- I think that we have an idea of that. But let me
just say that, you know, the President and the Attorney General have both indicated that, you know, in cases where the death penalty is warranted and seems appropriate, we will use it. It's far too early to say whether that is the case, but this is a death penalty eligible case.
Do you want to talk about that, Chief?
CHIEF PAMELA SMITH, METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT OF WASHINGTON, D.C.: No, I think it's still a part of the investigation.
PIRRO: I don't want to get into the weeds. I think that right now he's been arraigned, he's been presented. Excuse me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's in progress.
PIRRO: It's in progress. OK. Yes, sir.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you just -- Mr. Jensen, could you just clarify one thing? You said -- you said he was in town for a conference. Is that a different conference than the one in the event? Could you tell us more about what that particular event is?
JENSEN: So we're still looking into the nature of the conference we believe associated with his work, and we are contacting his employer and trying to figure out what the nature of his job was. We believe the reason for his flight was related to a conference for his work.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the nature of that work?
JENSEN: I don't have it at the top of my head.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then the other question is he seems to have been sort of stalking, I forgot what the word was, pacing in front of this event. And he seems to have had pretty easy egress in and out of the place.
What does that say about the level of security? And are you investigating that? And Mayor Bowser, are you considering increasing security around this sorts of events and institutions?
JENSEN: So regarding the movements of the subject, obviously still very much a part of the investigation, composite of collected videos, witness statements, to put a full picture together. Before I would comment on any one particular act that he may or may not have been observed doing.
As far as security goes for a private entity, I wouldn't comment on that. And as far as posture goes, I would defer to the mayor.
MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D) WASHINGTON D.C.: I think that the director is correct. This was not a event that falls into our special events category where MPD and other government agencies have a stood up posture. This was a relatively small event at a museum. So MPD or the government agencies wouldn't stand up additional resources unless they were requested or unless we got a call for service.
More than that, I will say that we have had a local program and a federal program that have helped institutions, faith institutions and others who have been concerned about violence, antisemitism or other hateful speech and rhetoric.
And very recently we have issued grants and we have issued grants over the last several years to those institutions to harden their security, add cameras, additional security. And I believe that the museum has done some of those things.
PIRRO: All right. I just want to -- I just want to follow up with this. We've been advised that the defendant has appeared in court.
[17:05:05]
He's had an attorney appointed, he's been advised by the judge that he could be punished by death or by life. And of course, we sought detention. The defendant waived his right to a detention hearing and concedes to detention. And right now a preliminary hearing is set for June 18th at one o' clock. So it is done.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One clarification, Mr. Jensen. You are not ruling out this amount of customer written by this gentleman, right?
JENSEN: We don't know. We don't know. And that's still very much a part of the investigation.
PIRRO: OK, good. All right, thank you all. Yes, sir. One more.
UNDIENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Were any MPD officers working details at this event last night? Perhaps off duty? And then the follow up to that. When you say the FBI said a target event, do you believe this, the victims were targeted, or simply the event was targeted?
SMITH: So let me answer your first question mark. MPD was not assigned to that event, as you know. You've heard me say on last night, there were security officers assigned to the event, but not Metropolitan Police Department members.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On or off duty.
SMITH: On or off duty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And then the targeting. Was that the event that was targeted or these two individuals specifically targeted?
JENSEN: We're not saying at this time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One question that people are interested in is that it was announced and fairly well known that the Jewish Museum a short time ago opened a major LGBT exhibition. And we were wondering if the investigation is looking into whether the suspect might have known something about that.
PIRRO: Sir, we are looking into absolutely everything. There is so much information we are looking at. And I must tell you, coming from New York, I've not ever seen the cooperation and the collaboration that I'm seeing here. It was immediate, it was instant, it was coordinated. And my hat's off to this area and we're going to clean it up. Thank you.
Is that you?
JENSEN: No.
PIRRO: Thank you all.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. You saw just now authorities giving an update on the investigation and to last night's horrific deadly shooting of two Israeli embassy staffers. The suspect in that shooting has just been charged with two counts of first degree murder. He faces more charges. His first court appearance has just ended.
Here is what we know about this tragedy right now. Last night as the Jewish Museum here in D.C. hosted an event that was focused on bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza and other war torn areas. A group of people leaving the event, a gunman approached a group of people leaving the event and he opened fire on the group. As he was detained video shows him yelling free, free Palestine. The victims who were murdered are 26 year old Sarah Milgrim and 30 year old Yaron Lischinsky.
They met through their work at the Israeli Embassy. The Israeli ambassador said they were set to get engaged in Israel next week and now their families so tragically have to plan their funerals instead. The suspect is a 31-year-old Chicago man who was not previously known to police. It's unclear what, if any, connection he has to Washington D.C.
Joining us now to discuss Andrew McCabe, he's a former deputy FBI director. Former federal prosecutor Elie Honig joins us now as well.
Andrew, first of all, it's awful. Your reaction to the murder charges. Do you expect federal hate crime charges, terrorism charges to follow?
ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: You know, the prosecutors have a lot of different options here. And hate crimes particularly, it can be a very tough crime to charge. You need really significant evidence of motive and intent and it appears that we have it here.
But it's the kind of charge that you probably can expect the prosecutors to take a little time, spend a little time reviewing the evidence that they've collected.
TAPPER: They are referring to it as an act of antisemitic violence and they are referring to it as terrorism. That doesn't necessarily mean though that they'll charge it as a hate crime or they'll charge it as terrorism.
MCCABE: That's right, that decision comes down to reviewing the massive amount of information that they're currently collecting in the words of the U.S. attorney. So we know they've executed search warrants on electronics devices. They're doing interviews of family members, coworkers, associates, people like that.
They're going to look at all of his writings. There are some writings that they believe may be attributable to him, but they're trying to confirm that. And they will look at his social media postings, things like that. All of that information will go into that determination of what they end up charging.
TAPPER: Elie, you saw Jeanine Pirro there. She's the interim U.S. attorney here in Washington D.C. She was asked about the death penalty. How and will -- how and when rather will the U.S. Justice Department decide whether or not to seek the death penalty?
[17:10:00]
ELIE HONIG, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NY: So Jake, that's an internal process within the Justice Department that can take an excruciatingly long time. I've seen it take up to a year for DOJ to decide whether they want to seek the death penalty. That said, I would expect a much quicker decision here. And when you're making that calculation inside the Justice Department, typically you look at things like premeditation. And if we look at this complaint, this was absolutely a premeditated attack.
You look at things like, what was the motivation? To quote, the FBI assistant director just now, he said it was a targeted antisemitic violence. You look at the number of victims here, we have multiple victims, two. You look at the especially cruel way that the murder was carried out. And if you look at the complaint, I'm not even going to repeat this on air. It's so chilling.
But if you look at the complaint, the way this individual actually killed these two innocent victims is gut wrenching. So I think this is a decision that DOJ is going to expedite and I'd be shocked if they do not seek the death penalty ultimately.
TAPPER: CNN's Evan Perez was in the room during that press conference. Evan, what new information did we learn about the suspect?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, one of the things that really stood out from that press conference is that the suspect came to Washington on Tuesday and he came here, according to the FBI, for a work conference. It appears he had some work reason for him to come to Washington.
And he, according to this, to the criminal complaint, he actually checked a weapon, his firearm, when he took a flight from the Chicago -- from Chicago airport to Washington, D.C. And so then they also know he was here somewhere. They don't -- they didn't identify where he's been staying over the day before he carried out the shooting.
But what it tells you a little bit about is the sort of the planning and motivation. They described that he bought a ticket to this event. This was an event, Jake, that wasn't advertised, widely advertised. You had to register to even know the location of where this event was happening.
And so that's part of what the FBI and what the Metropolitan Police are now looking into to try to again, put together a picture of everything, of every place he's been. One of the things they asked for is for the public to say anyone who saw him in those 24 or 36 hours before this shooting, this horrific shooting took place, to call the FBI and let them know, because they're still trying to fill in the gap there of what he did when he first got to Washington and how he came to choose this event, which was, as Elie points out, this was a targeted antisemitic attack.
And so you can expect that is going to be part of the charges that we might see in the future in the next few weeks. Jake.
TAPPER: Andy McCabe, let me ask you. A few years ago, after the Tree of Life synagogue killing, there was a raft, including that of antisemitic violence from people who were on the right. And it seems like right now we are in the middle, in the midst of a raft of antisemitic violence from people who are on the left.
We saw somebody with the same twisted motivation who tried to kill Governor Shapiro and his wife and kids and others at the governor's mansion. There have been all sorts of other foiled plots and the like. What can be done about this?
MCCABE: Jake what you're seeing is the current form of this tidal wave of hate crimes that's been going up in the in this country in the last 10 years. They've dealt hate crimes have doubled in the United States from 2014, about 6,000 a year in 2014, up to 12,000 in 2023.
The overwhelming majority of those hate crimes are targeted towards the Jewish population. That's why it is a target that is sought out, vilified and is the source of all conspiracy theories and grievances by all kinds of different extremists, be they right, left, in the middle or wherever else.
The Jewish community has addressed this in the best way that they possibly can. You have secured Communities Network. You have all the work that's been done to try to secure synagogues and community centers.
I can tell you from my own personal experience working with the Jewish community, you have, you know, communities in places as large as D.C. and New York and places as small as Columbus, Ohio, that are engaged in trying to better secure their locations in their communities. But they cannot do it alone.
At some point, we have to start addressing these things for what they are. I think the sort of prosecution that the U.S. attorney spoke of, the investigation prosecution that she foreshadowed today, is exactly where this needs to be.
TAPPER: And Elie, one of the things is just there's so many tragic things about this horrific antisemitic act of terrorism. Sarah Milgrim, one of the two young people killed. She was 26. There is video of her in high school in Kansas in 2017, talking to a local news station.
[17:15:00]
She live in Overland Park, Kansas, a Jewish an area where a lot of Jewish people live in Overland Park, Kansas. Talking about swastikas painted on her school and talking about the fact that she was already worried about going to synagogue, whether or not she's safe, and now she has to worry about going to school, whether she was safe.
Now that's swastikas. That's far-right stuff. Now she's killed by somebody far left. What's your -- I know we've talked about this before because we talked about this on Holocaust Remembrance Day. I think it was about your ancestors and the Holocaust. What are you thinking? What are you feeling when you hear about this?
HONIG: The whole thing is unspeakable, Jake. It's just grotesque and gut wrenching. But look, this is a sad reality of being a Jewish person in the United States or around the world today. You mentioned that the victim, Ms. Milgrim, grew up sort of seeing this type of antisemitic sentiment.
Well, studies have shown that young people, about 50 percent of all young people see Nazi symbols or antisemitic rhetoric on their social media feeds every day. And if we look at the broader trends going beyond even the hate speech that young people and all people are subjected to every day. Andy referred to this.
If you look at the trends and antisemitic actions, it is just a straight line up. The Anti-Defamation League has studied antisemitic hate crime incidents. Those numbers have gone up every year.
This past year, 2024 was actually the highest year on record of antisemitic conduct in the 46 years that the ADL has been gathering this data. And Jake, I'm sure you know, Andy, you probably know as well, it's just something that Jewish people live with.
Now, I said before, I'm on the board of directors of a nonprofit Jewish camp. And two or three years ago we made the very difficult decision that we needed an armed guard standing there by the entrance of a summer camp. And I think most Jewish camps do that now. You can't go to a bar mitzvah, an event at a synagogue, without seeing some type of armed guard. It's a sad reality, but it's the reality that we live in.
TAPPER: And just to remind people at home, this American Jewish Committee event at this Jewish museum, which was not advertised because of these security concerns. This was an event that was prompting, trying to make a humanitarian effort to help the citizens of Gaza. I mean, that was the reason for the event.
Elie Honig, Andrew McCabe, Evan Perez, thanks so much. CNN's Whitney Wild is in Chicago. That's where police say the suspect is from Whitney. Tell us what's going on there.
WHITNEY WILD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think you hear some noise. There's an ambulance about a block away from me. That is not related to what we're seeing here throughout the day, though, Jake. It has certainly been a very busy scene as law enforcement is pouring through this address associated with Elias Rodriguez. It was shortly after 7:30 this morning that our team saw FBI agents in tactical gear with a dog enter that residence.
This is a dense neighborhood. This is Albany Park, Chicago. This is on the north side. Again, this is a dense residential neighborhood. They were in and out of a pretty dense apartment building here. This is a very ethnically diverse neighborhood. Jake, just to give you some local context, we spoke with one neighbor who was utterly shocked to learn that the person suspected in this horrific crime in Washington was his neighbor.
He said that he saw him. He hadn't spoken with him in a couple of weeks, but he couldn't believe it, Jake, because, you know, for the most part, he knew him as a pretty quiet person, a pretty normal person. He had a Hello Kitty on his door. So all of these details of what this neighbor knew about Elias Rodriguez is hard to comprehend in this moment.
Jake, again, law enforcement poring through whatever details they can find here at this address associated with Elias Rodriguez. Other threads that law enforcement, as you heard during this press conference, are trying to follow is this question about this manifesto, this letter that went up online on a -- an X account that was, you know, law enforcement is investigating whether or not that's associated with Elias Rodriguez.
Some of those writings are certainly quite concerning in the context of this, what we've seen in the last 24 hours, Jake. But many more questions to answer. Law enforcement hoping to find some of those answers right here on the north side of Chicago. Jake.
TAPPER: Whitney Wild, thank you so much. The couple who was killed was attending an event hosted by the American Jewish Committee. And joining me now is the CEO of the American Jewish Committee, Ted Deutch. He's also a former Democratic congressman from Florida.
Congressman, first of all, our deepest condolences on this horrible, horrible day. You knew the victims. They were gunned down after attending your organization's event, which was focused, again, this was -- this was an event focused on bringing humanitarian aid to Gaza. Tell us more about Sarah and Yaron.
TED DEUTCH, CEO, AMERICAN JEWISH COMMITTEE: Jake. Thanks. First of all, it's such a tragic loss of two beautiful souls, Sarah, we've all come to learn.
[17:20:05]
America has come to learn a lot about Sarah and Yaron. But for us, they were partners of AJC. We work closely with them. Sarah was deeply involved in the work that AJC does that was on full display last night. That was focused, as you point out, on humanitarian diplomacy, on trying to bring people together. She participated in programs with us trying to bring together people from across the region in the Middle East.
That's what's so horrific about this. You know, I was just listening to your last conversation and the best thing we can do to help honor the memory of Yaron and Sarah is to not accept that this is just the reality, that to be a Jew in America or in the world just means that you have to fear being out in public with another group of Jews. That's the moment that we've now come to.
What happened last night compels us to reject that reality and to stand together, Jews and non-Jews alike, to make sure that we don't ever have to see this kind of tragedy again.
TAPPER: The location of this event was not listed online. I assume for security reasons. According to your group's website, the location was only provided to those who registered. So was this an intentional security related move, do you think? How do you think the suspect was able to bypass this?
DEUTCH: Where we are awaiting the results of the investigation? We don't know the answer to that. We obviously take security very seriously. We had security insides and security guards who apprehended him when he came inside. Tragically, what happened that this awful, these murders took place outside, and the response from the administration, from the Trump administration and from Mayor Bowser's administration, police department, the Attorney General, everyone had jumped right into this. And for all of that, we're grateful.
Now the question is making sure that we understand exactly what happened here so that the prosecution can go forward and so that all of us in the community can understand how something like this could ever happen.
TAPPER: This doesn't happen in a vacuum, right? The guy just didn't wake up out of nowhere and decide to do this -- the suspect. This is interesting to me. The Anti-Defamation League's Jonathan Greenblatt told me earlier today that antisemitism on Twitter or X is quote, terrible and quote, unambiguously awful.
Last night, the CEO of X, Linda Yaccarino, I think is her name, she posted, quote, antisemitism and violence have no place in America. The murder of two Israeli embassy employees last night is a tragedy. We can't ignore. I'm praying for the family, friends and colleagues.
But she says there's no place for antisemitism in America. She works for a website that provides a huge place for antisemitism and she says we can't be ignored. I mean, don't the leaders of Twitter or X pretty much ignore the antisemitism going on that?
DEUTCH: Every social media company, Jake, every single one, has a series of standards that are meant to prevent antisemitism and other forms of hate on their sites. These are their own rules. And time and time again they fail to enforce their own rules.
What happens on so many social media outlets is horrific. It's true, and it's part of the problem. But you have to zoom out to actually think about what's really happening here. Jake. when you allow, when you normalize the idea that someone can march down the streets in America or show up on a college campus in America and dress like a terrorist wearing the headband of a terrorist group, celebrate the massacre of Jews, the worst attack on the Jewish community on October 7th since the Holocaust.
When you see people chanting slogans like globalized the Intifada, this is not just rhetoric. This is incitement. It was only a matter of time that kind of rhetoric led to this kind of violence. No one wants to be right about that, but everyone's been saying it. It's time that the community as a whole, that America as a whole, reject this antisemitism.
What does that mean? It means that when they see this kind of antisemitism on social media, they raise it, they report it. It means that when they see Jewish students that are not allowed to cross the main quad on campus because they're Jews, that they talk to the university and they don't tolerate it. It means that when they see antisemitism in businesses that they talk to the owner and they call them out on it.
[17:25:00]
This is what would happen in any, with any other kind of hatred. We would never just sit back and shake our heads or look the other way. We can't afford to do it here. Our allies and friends across America and across the world, this is a moment when we need them to stand up together. And if they don't know how to do it, then come to us, come to AJC, come to the Jewish community for the kind of guidance that they need.
But my God, after what happened last night, we have to just stop talking about whether antisemitism comes more from the right or more from the left. And where do we see it? We know it's everywhere and we know that only by everyone working together will we be able to fight it.
TAPPER: Now, the whole thing about when Democrats will only condemn antisemitism when it's on the right or Republicans will only condemn antisemitism when it's on the left, it's so cynical and it's the coin of the realm here in Washington, D.C.
DEUTCH: And you know what, Jake? And we've talked about this. The antisemites, the ones who commit these horrific acts, they don't check anyone's political affiliation. The antisemitism doesn't decide that you're a particular kind of Jew. It's a millennia old hatred. It's a hatred that people need to understand to fight it. We have to do it together.
You have to be able to call it out even when it's coming, especially when it's coming from people that you know and that you work with. That's how we can do this together. I have to do this.
TAPPER: I think I can count one hand the number of members of Congress that are willing to call out antisemitism on their own side. Ted Deutch, thank you so much. It's good to see you. One colleague of the couple said, instead of walking down the aisle,
we are walking with you to your graves. We're learning more about the young couple whose lives were cut too short.
And the governor of Hawaii, who's also a doctor, is here. He's going to give a checkup on the Make America Healthy Again proposal that was presented.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:30:54]
TAPPER: We're back with our National Lead in the senseless killings of two Israeli embassy staffers who officials say were about to be engaged as soon as next week. 26-year-old Sarah Milgram from Overland Park, Kansas, and 30-year-old Yaron Lischinsky, described by those who knew them as kind, intelligent, passionate people, their bright futures cut short by a suspected gunman in an act of anti-Semitic violence and terrorism, according to the FBI.
This is as the couple left an event at the Capitol Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C., last night. CNN's Tom Foreman tells us more now about the two victims.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
AYELET RAZIN, SARAH MILGRIM'S FRIEND: I understand that they were supposed to come to Israel next week to announce their engagement.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were going to get married in Jerusalem in the near future.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): To those who knew them well, Sarah Milgram and Yaron Lischinsky were living a dream. She was in her mid-20s, he was just a bit older. Working together at the Israeli embassy in D.C. like a poster for a Netflix rom-com, one associate said. Now friends of the two vibrant young souls are grappling with what officials are alleging is one brutal reality.
RAZIN: They were murdered because they were Jews.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Yaron was born in Germany to a Jewish father and a Christian mother. He served in the Israeli military, and friends say he was soft-spoken, studious, a kind man.
RONEN SHOVAL, YARON LISCHINSKY'S TEACHER AT ARMAN INSTITUTE FOR ADVANCED STUDIES: Yaron was a good friend. He was part of the community. We always say that God always take the good ones. He was one of the best one. It makes me feel very sad. But what we're trying to do now is take his legacy and continue it in spreading good in our own world.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Sarah grew up around Kansas City and encountered sharp anti-Semitism in her youth when a white supremacist shot and killed three people at Jewish centers there in 2014, and when vandals spray-painted her high school with Nazi images. SARAH MILGRIM, VICTIM OF FATAL SHOOTING: It's so ignorant that you would bring up a symbol like that that brings so much pain to a lot of people, and it's not OK.
FOREMAN (voice-over): Sarah, a senior when it happened in 2017, told a local TV station --
MILGRIM: You know, I worry about going to my synagogue, and I have to worry about safety at school, and that shouldn't be a thing.
FOREMAN (voice-over): At the University of Kansas, she rose to leadership in a Jewish student group, where staff members are now recalling her making that stand years ago.
ETHAN HELFAND, EXEC. DIRECTOR OF HILLEL AT UNIV. OF KANSAS: It speaks to who she was as a person, that as a high schooler, when she saw things that were wrong, and when she saw her community being affected by anti-Semitism, that she spoke out.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
FOREMAN: What so many people we spoke to said was not that they're mourning just what these young people were, but what they might have been if their lives had not been cut short in this way. Jake?
TAPPER: Just awful. Tom Foreman, thanks so much.
Let's bring in Professor Nisim Otzmagin. He's the dean of humanities at Hebrew University of Jerusalem. He taught Yaron Lischinsky. Professor Otzmagin, I'm so sorry for what you and anybody who knew either of these two beautiful young people are going through right now. What went through your mind when you heard about the shooting and when you discovered one of your pupils was one of the victims?
NISSIM OTMAZGIN, DEAN, HEBREW UNIVERSITY OF JERUSALEM: Well, this is a tragedy. Yaron's friends from school keep on calling all day. They are devastated. Actually, we have -- the professors were in shock, you know. From time to time, you hear about hostilities, about people dying in war, in this battle, that battle. But when you really know the person in person, it hurts a lot.
Yaron, what -- what makes it, I think, even more difficult is that Yaron was both, for me, an outstanding student, but also just a wonderful human being. He was truly dedicated to the values, to the ideas he had. He wasn't only a good student. He actually wanted to use his knowledge, his culturally diverse background, as a diplomat.
He wanted to become a diplomat. This was his ambition for the service of Israel. And this is what makes it a common difficulty for all of us. He wanted to become a diplomat from day one at the university. This is why he studied International Relations and Asian Studies.
[17:35:01]
He took three of my classes. One of them, Honors Seminar in Japanese Studies, which he received 100 in his final paper, the highest in class. And then he continued for his Masters in Diplomacy, before starting his -- his -- his new world, his job -- his new job as a diplomat, what he dreamed about all of his life, just before he was murdered, brutally, together with Sarah.
TAPPER: This was an event to call attention to the humanitarian needs of the people of Gaza. And the shooter, the alleged shooter, shouted, free, free Palestine, after he killed these two innocent young people. I've seen people on social media today, saying that all of the lies that are being told about what is, by any stretch, a horrific war going on in Gaza right now, may have contributed to this.
As somebody who teaches at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, what are your views of -- of that part of this horrible tragedy? The fact that this individual obviously thought he was doing something in the name, as twisted as it was, in the name of freeing Palestine, as his slogan would have it.
OTMAZGIN: I -- I think the main -- the main lesson is that words matter, actually. You know, it didn't happen in a vacuum. We hear this discourse again and again and again, from the river to the sea. We hear quite a lot of hatred discourse, and I think, you know, it influences. But what we're trying to do, at least at the Hebrew University, and I think this is what -- this is what Yaron believed in, is that we should actually try to reach out. We should speak with each other.
Maybe the outside world, you know, there's hostilities and fighting in Gaza, but at least the place where Yaron studied, at the Hebrew University, 17 percent of the students are Palestinians. So actually inside campus, we try to maintain an ecosystem of how the society in the outside should be, to know each other, not to fear for each other, and especially not to talk, you know, hatred speeches against each other.
And for him, for being in such a, going for such an event, to try to contribute to the people of Gaza, it doesn't surprise me. I think this is what he felt -- he felt like. He felt that as a diplomat, and given his culturally diverse background, he was speaking four languages, German, English, Hebrew, and Japanese.
TAPPER: Yeah.
OTMAZGIN: He studied Japanese for three years, and actually he tried to use his ability to build bridges, including to Palestinians. I know that he had Palestinian friends at the university. He used to play soccer in the afternoon, and I think some of the team members were Palestinians as well.
TAPPER: Professor Nissim Otmazgin, thank you so much for talking to us today. And may Sarah Milgram and Yaron Lischinsky's memories be a blessing.
[17:38:04]
We have some breaking news from the U.S. Supreme Court for you now, a major win for President Trump and his power to fire federal workers. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Some breaking news in our Law and Justice Lead. The United States Supreme Court just handed President Trump a win in a case that tested his power to fire federal workers. Let's get right to CNN's chief legal affairs correspondent, Paula Reid. So, Paula, what's the ruling? Tell us about it.
PAULA REID, CNN CHIEF LEGAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, Jake, this is huge, because this is a win for Trump and his larger effort to reshape the federal government. It also suggests the Supreme Court is sympathetic to stripping away some protections for federal workers.
Here, the high court has ruled that Trump does not have to reinstate two senior officials who oversaw federal agencies that helped to enforce labor protections. Now, these two officials are Cathy Harris. She's the former chair of the Merit Systems Protection Board. I assume most people aren't familiar with that.
TAPPER: We actually had her on our show just --
REID: I -- I remember that. I -- if you're -- if you're a fan of The Lead, which I am, you would know. But they -- they oversee federal firings, and they can reinstate wrongly terminated workers. The other one is Gwynne Wilco -- Wilcox, she's a member of the National Labor Relations Board. They're both Democrats appointed by Biden, had terms that weren't expected to expire for years. They were fired in April.
The Supreme Court sort of put a pause on those terminations, looked at the case and decided that their terminations can proceed while they continue to litigate their firings to the lower court. So a lower court could reinstate them, but if that doesn't happen, their jobs are gone. And this win is so significant because it suggests that a majority of this court is open to Trump's very vast interpretation of executive power.
And we know we have a lot of other questions related to -- to the expansiveness of his power pending before this court. That's why this is so significant, because it's giving us a sense of where that conservative supermajority stands. Not surprisingly, the three liberal justices all dissented here.
TAPPER: Yes, but I'm not particularly surprised that the conservative justices believe in a powerful executive branch. That's kind of the whole point that they're there in -- in many ways. Paula Reid, thanks so much.
Turning now to our National Lead, residents of a military neighborhood in San Diego woke up to a horrifying scene of fire and destruction this morning after a private business jet struck power lines just moments before attempting to land.
At least eight were injured. Two people were killed, including a well- known music booking agent, David Shapiro. CNN's Stephanie Elam is at the crash site in San Diego with new details. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ran outside and saw just sparks flying up.
STEPHANIE ELAM, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Cessna Citation business jet crashing into a military housing neighborhood roughly six miles north of downtown San Diego in the early morning fog.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We got multiple explosions over here. We're doing evacuation, we got multiple houses on fire.
ELAM (voice-over): The crash setting at least ten homes on fire and burning cars throughout the neighborhood. First responders arrived on scene just minutes later, rushing to put out the flames and search the homes.
[17:45:08]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to probably have several hundred people evacuated.
ELAM (voice-over): At least two people on the plane died, and authorities say they are still making identifications and investigating how many people were on board.
DAN EDDY, ASSISTANT CHIEF, SAN DIEGO FIRE-RESCUE: We're looking at it as a roistered on the plane with six individuals, so we're confirming that right now with the FAA and NTSB as they're getting on scene right now.
ELAM (voice-over): Jet fuel spilled across multiple blocks in one of the largest military housing units in the world, according to Navy officials.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Front yards are completely saturated with fuel. Use extreme cost from doing evacs.
ELAM (voice-over): The jet was heading toward the small Montgomery- Gibbs Executive Airport in San Diego just before it crashed. Visibility, according to weather data, was at about a half a mile at the time of the accident.
EDDY: If you look at the -- the plane -- the path that it took behind me here, you can see that its trajectory came through this direction, took out the front of that house, and it ended up here to the right behind me.
ELAM (voice-over): The pilot, checking into air traffic control, radioed in at three miles away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Montgomery traffic, citation triple 6 delta sierra 3 miles final, 28.
ELAM (voice-over): The transmission, giving no indication of any issue with the landing, no emergency was reported before the crash.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ELAM (on camera): And what we know now from the FAA is that there were six people on board. We know two people have been confirmed dead, but that person that you were talking about, Jake, David Shapiro, the co- founder of the Sound Talent Group, they repped indie music performers as well as hard rock and also some punk bands, according to Billboard magazine, was also the owner of that plane. But as far as who else was on that plane, we still don't know yet.
Out here live, they've just put these fire trucks in the way. I think they're going about the delicate procedures of collecting the remains of people now and clearing out this area. And the scent here is still very strong of jet fuel in the air. So that's why people are still evacuated, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Stephanie Elam in San Diego, thank you so much. Not a -- not a fun story to cover. Tough stuff.
The White House is out with a controversial new report today, calling on federal agencies to reassess the nation's childhood vaccine schedule. We'll have the details for you next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:51:23]
TAPPER: Our Health Lead now, bad diets, exposure to environmental toxins, and overusing medicines are some of what's to blame for driving up chronic diseases among children, this according to a new report from the Make America Healthy Again, or MAHA commission, which is chaired by HHS Secretary RFK Jr. The commission is calling on federal agencies to reassess the nation's childhood vaccine schedule. They want to scrutinize ultra-processed foods and study pesticides widely used in commercial farming.
Let's bring in physician and the Democratic governor of Hawaii, Josh Green. He helped lead an emergency medical mission against the measles epidemic in Samoa in 2019, which RFK Jr. certainly played a role in. Governor, I want you to take a listen to what RFK Jr. said about the MAHA report a short while ago at the White House.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: It's common sense that we can celebrate the innovations of modern life while also demanding fearless inquiry into ameliorating the negative effects of medication, agriculture, and environmental practices.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So what's your reaction to that, and what did you make of the MAHA report?
GOV. JOSH GREEN (D-HI): I read it. There are some good things in it. I'm -- I'm in favor of working on ultra-processed foods and chemicals that hurt kids. That stuff is something that we should all be fighting against. The pesticide issue has been a problem for many, many years. All of that could contribute and probably does contribute to chronic disease amongst children.
So that part of the report was very good, and I appreciated that. I am very, very concerned about their approach overall to the central part of public health for children, which is vaccinations. And I think we have to address that because there have been some signs that they're going to go aggressively at vaccinations. I've witnessed some of that in the last 24 hours.
TAPPER: He has said a lot. RFK Jr. has said a lot of just patently false things about vaccines and for -- for decades now, for decades. The report says the vaccines benefit children by protecting them from infectious diseases, but it calls for inquiry into potential side effects that they say that can be caused by the vaccines, quote. Despite the growth of the childhood vaccine schedule, that means the number of -- of vaccines that kids get, there has been limited scientific inquiry into the links between vaccines and chronic disease, the impacts of vaccine injury and conflicts of interest in the development of the vaccine schedule. What do you make of that?
GREEN: We've got to read between the lines there. Just yesterday, 48 hours ago, they began the summarily early destruction of the vaccine for COVID. That was a big hearing that I was the minority testifier on. It is good to look at the safety of vaccinations. But let's be clear, vaccinations save lives. They've saved 150 million lives.
TAPPER: And by the way, just to interrupt for one second, I'm sorry. Operation Warp Speed --
GREEN: Yes.
TAPPER: -- which President Trump authorized, is one of the greatest presidential accomplishments in the pre -- in the public health realm of the last 20 years.
GREEN: Yes.
TAPPER: They're distancing themselves from it?
GREEN: Yes, it was kind of surreal because there they were with this committee that Senator Johnson was running, and they were demonizing the vaccine. And they were overly focusing on any possible way to discredit it, even though it saved millions of lives in America. So it's really a strange thing that's going on right now.
What we have to watch out for is when -- when they cast doubt on vaccinations, you know, a larger number of people don't get them. Mothers and dads don't want to go get their kid vaccinated because they're scared. As soon as you get a critical mass of people not getting vaccinated, you get outbreaks like we have across the country. The COVID vaccination now is going to be under additional scrutiny, which is fine.
It's important to do good science, but they put in some provisions now where they're going to create a system where they have to do all this extra study.
[17:55:02]
TAPPER: Well, let me ask you about that because the report calls for more rigorous clinical trials on childhood vaccines by using, quote, true placebos, larger samples sizes, and large, longer follow-up periods. This, they say, they want to do to -- as a way to detect rare or long-term adverse effects. So what -- what's -- what's wrong with that?
GREEN: So there's -- it sounds good on paper, but it's not really the ethical approach because now that you know that vaccines save lives. Yes, of course, you check to see if there are impacts, but what they're saying is they put a poison pill in it. They say you're going to have to have these additional placebo trials, even though there have been trials for decades and decades and decades showing that they work, that they're safe, that they're decreasing mortality and morbidity for children.
But when you put those extra provisions in, like, you can't suddenly give someone a sugar pill instead of, or sugar water instead of their vaccine, knowing that the vaccine is going to stop meningitis, so they're ethical considerations that the scientific community has agreed to all in for decades, so what they're doing is they're chipping away at it piece by piece.
Now, if I may, on the MAHA report and so on, like I said, there's some good things in there.
TAPPER: Yes.
GREEN: But the ultimate hypocrisy is that all of the reasons that kids end up eating processed foods or not getting shots in the right way or live too near chemical plants is because of poverty. So a couple things are happening, one, we're giving tax breaks to the ultra-rich and taking services and Medicaid away from those who need their health care. That's a huge problem.
And then the other problem is they're destroying the public health system, so we won't even be able to follow or do the research as they get rid of the NIH grants what has to happen, so the report has some good things in it. It has some disconcerting questions about what they'll do to vaccinations, so stay tuned and watch carefully, all of us have to.
And then finally, will we get to the actual root causes which deal with poverty and isolation of children, so it's a mixed bag.
TAPPER: All right. Physician and Hawaiian Democratic Governor Josh Green, thanks so much. Always good to have you here.
A black-tie dinner is slated to start in just an hour. The guest of honor is President Trump. Why is the rest of the guest list, however, shrouded in secrecy? Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
