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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Harvard Scores Temporary Win In Legal Fight With Trump; Trump Signs Orders To Boost Nuclear Energy Production; Trump Threatens 25 Percent Tariff On Apple If iPhones Aren't Made In U.S.; Ringleader In Kardashian Robbery Found Guilty By Paris Court; New Push To Tell The Stories Of Those Who Rest Overseas. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 23, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the Lead. I'm Phil Mattingly.

This hour, Harvard fights back after the White House bans the university from enrolling international students, a judge quickly stepping in, siding with the Ivy League school.

[18:00:06]

So, what comes next in this back and forth, and how could colleges across the U.S. be affected?

Plus, what really happened inside President Trump's exclusive dinner last night filled with top purchasers of his crypto meme coin. And why is the White House still keeping that guest list secret from the public?

Also, our small business series takes us to Omaha, Nebraska, to meet the owner of a beloved soul food restaurant. She's passionate about serving her neighbors and the most vulnerable in her community. So, how are tariffs affecting the company?

And the ringleader of a gang that tied up and robbed Kim Kardashian has been found guilty by a Paris Court. Seven others also found guilty. So, why are all them now walking free?

The Lead Tonight, a new escalation in the fight between Harvard University and the White House, a federal judge today blocking the Trump administration's effort to ban Harvard from enrolling international students. Here's what President Trump said today, when asked if he'll try to stop other universities from accepting foreign students as well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, we're taking a look at a lot of things, and, as you know, billions of dollars has been paid to Harvard. How ridiculous is that?

Harvard's going to have to change its ways, so are some others,

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: CNN's Katelyn Polantz and CNN's Jason Carroll join us now to talk about all aspects of this.

Katelyn, to you in a moment, but, Jason, just to start with you, where are things standing right now in this very clear, ongoing back and forth?

JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Oh, yes, for sure. I mean, as you can imagine, this is a development field that has affected so many of the students here at Harvard, more than 6,800 international students here on campus, and many of them simply just do not know what they're going to do next. For example, I spoke to a sophomore, he's from Pakistan. He's not sure if he's going to make it to his junior year. I spoke to another junior. She's from Israel. She says, with so much uncertainty, she's not sure what she's going to do.

For many of the international students here, it comes down to a choice. Do you stay and stick it out and hope that, ultimately, the courts will rule in Harvard's favor, or do you pack it up, packing up all your dreams and do you leave? I mean, these are the choices that so many here are facing at this point.

I want you to listen to some of the folks that we spoke to and what they're having to deal with now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LEO, GERDEN, HARVARD SENIOR-YEAR INTERNATIONAL STUDENT FROM SWEDEN: It's people's lives that are put at risk, and we are being used as poker chips in a battle between the White House and Harvard.

This place will not only be poorer financially, but also culturally.

MARC HVIDKJAER, HARVARD INTERNATIONAL DOCTORAL STUDENT FROM DENMARK: Of course, I'm in limbo and you know, the government has showed its hand here and it's showed to what lengths it is willing to go.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CARROLL: So, there you have it. They're in limbo, Phil. That is how so many international students here feel at this point.

But all of those that we spoke to also said that they are grateful that Harvard is standing up to the Trump administration. I should also point out, I spoke to a professor and he said that he is just heartbroken because so many of the international students have come to him and they've said, what can I do? And he says, Phil, at this point, he cannot say with confidence exactly what they should do. Phil?

MATTINGLY: You know, Katelyn, to that point where do things go from here in the legal side of this? And also isn't this the same judge considering another lawsuit from Harvard?

KATELYN POLANTZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Indeed, Phil. So, this is a judge in the federal court in Massachusetts, in Boston, Allison Burroughs, and she's already set a hearing, two hearings, in fact, for next week. She's going to have a check-in with the lawyers on Tuesday. And then on Thursday, we're going to be hearing midi-legal arguments about this. We have only so far seen the arguments on paper and some evidence on paper from Harvard's side.

And the judge stepped in today. What she did, it was very temporary. She only issued about a one and a half page order, and it said so far, yes, it looks like Harvard has shown they face immediate and irreparable harm. So, this is not going into effect, this ban on student visas for the 7,000 or more students coming to campus or on campus at Harvard.

All of this, though, is going to take a long time in the legal system. It will have to go before Judge Burroughs at the district court. She will have that midi hearing, very likely write a lengthy opinion, looking at all of what's going on with Harvard and the Trump administration, make final decisions and then appeals. This is one of those types of cases, Phil, that could very likely go to the Supreme Court if neither side backs down.

And you mentioned she does have another case before her. It's not moving as fast. It's about the Trump administration wanting to block billions of dollars in funding for Harvard. One thing I should note though here is while Judge Burrows is an Obama appointee, she is not a Harvard graduate, like many, many people on the federal bench.

[18:05:05]

In fact, for law school, she went to the University of Pennsylvania. Phil?

MATTINGLY: Jason Carroll, Katelyn Polantz, thank you, guys, as always.

I want to bring in my political panel now. Matt, I want to start with you, because, look, I covered the campaign, I know the people around the president, it's not a secret that this administration was going to go after some of these Ivy League institutions for any number of different reasons, but the just absolute dedication to ramping up the escalatory ladder every single week it seems like. Why?

MATT GORMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER, TIM SCOTT PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I think they see it as a political winner. You're not going to lose votes going against Harvard particularly. So, Trump versus Harvard, you're going to be hearing those words a lot, I think, over the next couple months. And even in the big, beautiful bill, they're going to try and tax their $50 billion endowment.

This is a multi-front war, I think, the Trump administration's waging at Harvard. Look, let's take a policy out for a second. They know it's a political winner. I mean, you even have -- If Chris Murphy is saying Americans should stand with Harvard, I think that just statement alone is very helpful to our party, maybe not his.

And, look, on the policy front they're going to make the argument that Harvard didn't submit the requisite amount of paperwork and reports that the DHS requested on these students, and they're going to use that when they go to court.

MATTINGLY: Yes, I can see your eyes light up.

Gorman: Oh, yes.

MATTINGLY: Thinking about the idea of being able to make a political message tied to that.

But, Cat, to the policy of this here. I think this is roughly 7,000 students. It's a very significant chunk, could have broader ramifications. Is there a political -- or, sorry, is there a policy strategy that we could kind of knit together?

CAT ZAKRZEWSKI, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, WASHINGTON POST: Well, effectively, it seems to be a warning shot to universities across the country that if you don't comply with the Trump administration's demands, the administration will take drastic action. We've never seen an administration try to pull off an executive order like this before. And we know that the Trump administration has also been looking at actions with other Ivy League institutions and other schools throughout the country.

MATTINGLY: And I think you guys know this well, like care far more about the policy, but Matt makes a really good political point, which pains me to say as a Jets fan. Give a Jets fan any credit, but it's Friday. What do Democrats do with the framing that, again, made Matt's eyes light up, as he was saying?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yes, the optics here, you know, Matt's making a really good point. I think that the Democrats need to stick to the policies, right? You've heard a lot of them come out and say, this is a First Amendment issue. This is, you know, going to devalue education. This is a brain drain. We're now no longer able to bring the best and brightest around the world to the United States to keep them here.

So, I think that they need to stick to the policy issue on this, but they do face an optics problem. Like Matt is saying, Harvard is one of those places that is an elite institution and people do see that they did some anti-Semitic activities. And the difference here is they should go after those students, not, writ large, the 7,000, 27 percent, I think, of their student body. And so the Democrats have to thread a needle here and it's going to be really interesting.

But I also think this is another distraction tactic from talking about the big, beautiful bill and what's going to happen in the Senate. And Democrats need to focus on the economy and they really need to start focusing on the policies of these things.

MATTINGLY: So, I should note, I was just softening Matt up because --

GORMAN: I'm waiting for this.

MATTINGLY: I'm going to make him have to answer for this, which I don't envy what he's about to. But I want to start, Cat, with you on the topic of the meme coin dinner last night. You did have done some great reporting on it, great reporting from last night as well. What do we actually know?

ZAKRZEWSKI: We know very little about what actually happened at the dinner. The dinner was closed to the press. And so, mostly, what we're learning is from posts that are coming out on social media, from people who have disclosed they were there. But at this point in time, the White House hasn't even told the public who was on the guest list at this dinner spending time with the president last night.

MATTINGLY: So, Matt, if you were a professional comm strategist and your boss or client is saying, you know what I'm going to do as the president of the United States is I'm going to run a competition with a fake coin.

GORMAN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: Sorry, I'm going to get yelled at from people for saying that. I understand.

GORMAN: Your mentions are going to be dealt -- yes.

MATTINGLY: It's fine. He's the president of the United States. People are quite literally handing him money not for campaign donations, just to him.

GORMAN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: And in order to, as part of that, they get to have a dinner with him.

GORMAN: Yes.

MATTINGLY: That's -- I'm sorry, it's insane. Please defend it.

GORMAN: As a professional communicator, the strategy of not giving information is actually, I think, pretty smart because they're going to starve this story. You give a little bit of information and that leads to more stories and more stories and more stories. Starve the information, give as little information as possible.

And, again, we're on a Friday Memorial Day weekend. By Monday, by Tuesday, when people are back at work, this will not be talked about. I think it's smart on the communications aspect if they want this story to go away and not linger on it, give it as little information as possible, shut it down.

HAYS: But the problem, though, is that you have people who are now posting on social media and these billionaires don't care and don't necessarily follow the same policies. And these people, these billionaires are mostly from foreign countries, and so now foreign money is involved. So, I do think the press here is getting drib and drabs and they're starting to pull a needle.

I think that it is smart that they had this before a holiday weekend, so it kind of cuts out a little bit, but that is the problem, is you have a bunch of people who don't care and are posting now on social media.

[18:10:03]

MATTINGLY: Yes. No, I mean, I understand. The problem is you have people like Cat who are going to keep reporting on this.

You know, to that point, look, part of the reason that there's so much going on and I think they're just so unapologetic inside the White House and inside kind of the Trump orbit about these types of things that it's difficult to track all them.

As you report this out, how are you thinking through this process? I get asked this a lot. You're dealing with this day to day.

ZAKRZEWSKI: Well, so the strategy is clearly to flood the zone. And I'm lucky at the post we have a very large team where we've each kind of taken up specialties and mine is tech and crypto. And so I can assure you that moving forward, I'm going to keep watching, you know, what is happening with this meme coin business, but also the many other crypto businesses that the president is looking at.

And I do think we're starting to see this become a political issue where Democrats are increasingly eyeing just these ways that the president appears willing to profit off his office.

MATTINGLY: Yes, and it's going to be interesting when they get subpoena power, if they do at some point after the midterms, which often happens. We will keep watching your reporting and reading your reporting. Thank you very much for it. Enjoy the rug poll those of you who are -- again, not investment advice, do your thing folks. Thank you guys very much. I appreciate it.

Well, President Trump unveiling a new plan today that the White House says will boost nuclear energy here in the U.S. but how does it actually work? What's the timeline? I'll ask the energy secretary next.

Plus, how can President Trump's new tariff threats impact your wallet? We'll break down the numbers. That's ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

MATTINGLY: Continuing with our Politics Lead, President Trump this afternoon signed executive orders designed to boost nuclear power production in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We're going to get it very fast and we're going to get it very safe. I would say we'll be second to none because we're starting very strong. But we -- it's time for nuclear and we're going to do it very big.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: With us now from Denver is Energy Secretary Chris Wright. Mr. Secretary, I appreciate your time. I know you got a lot going on these days. This was a big day and it was something the president talked about. You've talked about often leading up to this. There's a lot of urgency right now kind of bigger picture to produce more electricity. How much of that has to do with artificial intelligence?

CHRIS WRIGHT, ENERGY SECRETARY: Oh, artificial intelligence is going to be a huge driver of electricity growth. It already is. So, it's not just artificial intelligence. We're also going to see more re-shoring of industry in this country of different kinds. But, yes, A.I. is certainly going to be the biggest driver of demand growth for U.S. electricity and we need to stay ahead in the A.I. race. We can't afford to fall behind China because we stumble on energy.

MATTINGLY: So, to dig in a little bit about what the president signed off on today, these executive orders, really, they track with kind of an administration agenda that's been rolling out since January 20th, cut regulations, speed up approvals, particularly in this case for smaller nuclear reactors. Tell us about what kind of timeline you're thinking.

WRIGHT: Yes. We're going to see shovels in the ground this year for nuclear construction. That has not happened in this country for decades. We built a whole bunch of plants in the 60s and 70s and 80s, and then we stopped. We've had 30 years of almost no growth in U.S. nuclear energy, but we're going to see shovels in the ground on multiple projects this year, multiple more next year, and, in fact, we've got a restart of a plant in Southwest Michigan that was shut down 2.5 years ago. That'll be back running by the end of this year, early next year. We just need more affordable, reliable, secure energy that works when the wind's not blowing and the sun's not shining. So, many sources of it, but nuclear should be a huge player in that.

MATTINGLY: You mentioned how long it's been since there's been actual manufacturing of any plant like this, let alone have one that's operating. One of the orders allows the defense and energy departments to build nuclear reactors on federal lands. Do you have a sense right now of where that would be?

WRIGHT: Well, in the Department of Energy, the first at works, we're going to do is in the state of Idaho. There's the Idaho National Laboratory. It's got huge lands in sort of Central, South Central Idaho. It has been a leader in commercial nuclear technology. So, our first efforts will begin there, but we're in dialogues with multiple other parties that want to develop data centers and nuclear power plants on other DOE lands as well.

MATTINGLY: You know, one of the issues, and President Trump was asked about this today and said, you know, it's just a very different moment in terms of safety when it comes to this type of energy, right? Like that's a large reason, if not the primary reason, this was kind of washed out over the course of several decades.

For people who live in some of these areas, why should they not be concerned about things.

WRIGHT: You know, great question. Safety -- in anything we do as human beings, safety is number one. Nobody wants their health impaired. Nobody wants great risks to that. The track record of nuclear on safety is actually tremendous. When we've had close or near accidents, we've had, you know, great news and great fear about that. Obviously, Chernobyl was horrific. That's an accident that did kill many people and caused massive damage. That was a Russian-design reactor, a bunch of horrible decisions. Something like that never has, never would, never will happen in the United States.

But these new reactors that are coming out, if everything in the world goes wrong, they just automatically shut themselves off. You have to actively keep them on. Where, you know, as we saw in Japan there, there was a diesel generator in a basement, everything went wrong and the generator went out and we had a problem. But the new reactors would not have that problem, whether it was a tsunami, an earthquake, you know, a plane crash, driving into them, their default state is off. They have to actively be kept on.

MATTINGLY: While you're here, I want to ask about the big, beautiful bill, which obviously took a huge step forward in the House and includes a pretty significant reduction in the Inflation Reduction Act elements related to green energy.

[18:20:10]

And the policy and the politics of that aside, I want to ask you about -- I was down in Northwest Georgia for about a week last -- during the campaign, talking to a significant surge in companies utilizing IRA funding, also some elements from President Trump's first term to really ramp up production on solar energy in particular. You guys talk about it an all-the-above approach. Undercutting that seems problematic at this point.

WRIGHT: Yes, I wouldn't call it undercutting. The wind subsidies are 32 years old. The subsidy -- the solar subsidies are well over 20 years old. It's not undercutting. It's just that's enough. That's enough government money to help launch these technologies. You'll see solar development continue on. That technology's getting better. Energy storage technology's getting better. This is just the end of the subsidies for solar energy.

Wind, you know, maybe its future is more uncertain without subsidies. But if you can't survive without subsidies, it's not a good energy technology.

MATTINGLY: As a former Bloomberg finance reporter, I desperately want to ask you about the oil market, but we have to go and I know you have a lot to do on a Friday night. At some point, though, we should definitely talk about that.

Energy Secretary Chris Wright, I really do appreciate your time. Thanks so much.

WRIGHT: Thanks for having me.

MATTINGLY: Well, President Trump reignites his trade wars with a threat that could make your smart phone cost more than $3,000. We're going to dig into that and other potential impacts. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: -- from taking foreign students --

TRUMP: It's a different congressman. They're all congratulating us.

REPORTER: Is that an iPhone, sir?

TRUMP: Yes. It's lucky it is, right?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: It's actually a funny moment. That was President Trump erupted not once, but twice, allegedly by two different congressmen today in the Oval Office by his iPhone ringing.

Now, just moments after saying that the 25 percent tariff he threatened to place on Apple will also apply to other smart phone makers if they don't produce their products here in the U.S. He also turned up the pressure in a major way on the E.U., imposing 50 percent tariffs set to go in effect on June 1st.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am not looking for a deal. I mean, we've set the deal, it's at 50 percent. But, again, there is no tariff if they build their plant here. Now, if somebody comes in and wants to build a plant here, I can talk to them about a little bit of a delay, but, you know, while they're building their plant, which is something I think that would be appropriate, maybe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: So, what's the potential impact to the U.S. economy? CNN's Matt Egan is at the Magic Wall.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Yes, Phil, this would be a major escalation in the president's trade wars, and this definitely caught investors off guard, right? They had been relieved about the fact that trade tension seemed to be calming down. Now, they're heating back up.

Just to remind you how we got here. Last month, the president briefly imposed 20 percent tariffs on the E.U. Then he lowered them to 10 percent to allow for time for negotiations. Now, he's not happy about how those talks are going, and he's threatening a 50 percent tariff on the E.U.

Now, just to give you some context here, the E.U. is America's biggest trading partner, far and away. We're talking about almost a trillion dollars worth of imports and exports between the U.S. and the E.U. last year alone. That's more than with Mexico, more than with Canada. It's actually more than with China and Japan combined.

When you look at what the US gets from the E.U., we're talking about more than $600 billion worth of goods last year alone. It's not just the BMWs and the Volkswagens from Germany. We're also talking about aircraft, pharmaceutical products, machinery, wine, and other alcoholic beverages. And if you put a 50 percent tariff on those goods, there's obviously a risk that they're going to get expensive, more expensive, potentially a lot more expensive.

That's why economists over at Barclays, they say that they view this threat of a 50 percent tariff as a negotiating tactic. But they do caution that if these tariffs did go into effect, they would weigh on both GDP growth and they would further boost inflation. So, you could have a situation where you have slower growth and higher prices.

And we don't know yet exactly how the E.U. is going to respond, but they've already set in motion, potential retaliatory tariffs on more than a hundred billion dollars of goods that they buy from the United States, and it's those retaliatory tariffs that could kill U.S. jobs.

Now, it's not just the E.U. that the president is threatening with his favorite weapon. Also, it is one of America's biggest companies, Apple. Apple joining a growing list of U.S. companies that have been attacked by the president so far this year. And the thing Apple has in common with Amazon and Mattel and Walmart is how it's linked to tariffs, right? The president is threatening at least a 25 percent tariff on Apple unless they move manufacturing back to the United States.

But the problem is the cost of labor here in the U.S. is so much higher. This is something that not only Apple couldn't do overnight, right, it would take five to ten years, but it would make the iPhone more expensive, way more expensive. There's estimates out there that if the iPhone was made in the U.S., each one would cost $3,500 a piece, right? That is prohibitively expensive for many Americans. And that's why Veteran Analyst Tech Dan Ives says that they believe this concept of apple producing iPhones in the U.S. is a fairy tale.

[18:30:01]

And he says it's one that is not feasible.

And, look, even if Apple found a way to somehow make it, it is not clear at all that they'd be able to find enough workers in the U.S. who have the skills and frankly the desire to build iPhones.

Back to you, Phil.

MATTINGLY: Otherwise straight path. Matt Egan, thanks so much.

With me is the U.S. national editor of the Financial Times, Ed Luce, who is also the author of a remarkable new biography, I was going to hold it up, we got a graphic, Zbig, The Life of Zbigniew Brzezinski, America's Great Power Prophet. I want to talk about that in just a moment. We were already talking about it during the break.

But I do want to start with what's going on. I don't know how your Friday morning was. Mine was interrupted by the re-ignition of a pretty substantial trade threat. Starting with the E.U., Treasury Secretary of Scott Bessent said this earlier today. Take a listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: I would hope that this would light a fire under the E.U. because, Bill, I've said before, E.U. has a collective action problem here.

So, some of the feedback that I've been getting is that the underlying countries don't even know what the E.U. is negotiating on their behalf.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MATTINGLY: Why I wanted to point that out? The president a couple hours later said, I don't want a deal. And this is the constant tension that those of us like you covering this, is this a negotiating strategy, is it to light a fire, like the treasury secretary is saying, or is this the endgame, is this the outcome? What do we think here?

EDWARD LUCE, U.S. NATIONAL EDITOR, FINANCIAL TIMES: So, I mean, the one thing there that I strongly agree with Secretary Bessent, Scott Bessent, about is there is a collective action problem with the 27 member states is different to doing a deal with Saudi Arabia, or even the U.K., where one government can react quickly. They have to consult a lot of governments. But I suspect when they consult those 27 governments with one or two exceptions, like Hungary, there's a real digging in of heels here that, you know, we are the largest trading bloc in the world, we are, as in European Union, and we're not going to be intimidated by these kind of casino hall tactics. This is sort of a game of bluff and we are not going to lose at this game of bluff.

So, the E.U. is not that different, in fact, to China in saying you cannot push us around. We are not the U.K. And we are not a Gulf kingdom. So, I don't know whether this is the end of you know, 50 percent, you know, raising the cost of those $600 billion imports to $900 billion in terms of the cost of the American consumer.

I don't know whether Trump thinks this is the endgame. I don't think he knows whether it's the endgame. He changes his position and is unforecastable. That's the real problem here. You cannot predict what he's going to do.

MATTINGLY: Real quick, because I do want to move on, and it's on the book, but what does that do to negotiate -- like when you talk to diplomats or trade teams that are involved in the dozens of negotiations that are ongoing right now, that reality, what does that do?

LUCE: So, I mean, the one deal that Trump has trumpeted is the U.K. deal. And if you look at the contents of that deal, there really aren't any. It's sort of a framework with lots of blank placeholders. So, even the word deal, let alone agreement, agreement means, you know, you've threshed out something that will last for years, but the U.K. breathes a sigh of relief. They felt they had dodged a bullet, but they've gone back to a baseline of 10 percent, which is not a victory. It's just a worse outcome avoided. So, that's not really the model for the E.U. It's not really the model for China. It's not really the model for anybody. It's very, very hard to negotiate with the president who can tank the markets with a tweet and without any warning.

MATTINGLY: It is certainly different than normal diplomatic relations, see what I did, this is a segue to the book, which I was genuine in telling you during the break, and I'm not all the way through it yet, but it's an extraordinary work. And I actually want to ask you, you have access to things people just haven't before. The family didn't ask for anything, actually explain how, what you have access to because it connects to the pope in a way that I think is really extraordinary.

LUCE: Well, thank you very much for those kind words. I mean, the raw material, the primary material that partly I was given by the family, which is the diaries he kept, he sort of used a Dictaphone from the White House back to his home in Virginia every night, spoken full paragraphs, that first draft of history, these enormous diaries. I got exclusive access to the correspondence with Pope John Paul II, who, of course, like Brzezinski, came from Poland, which was in Polish, an extraordinary really historic exchange of letters over many, many years.

Brzezinski had P for pope on his White House phone so he could get through to the Vatican straight away and that helped prevent the Soviet invasion of Poland, that relationship.

[18:35:03]

It was a really sort of seminal one, but tons of stuff, the Polish secret police files and the Soviet ones on Brzezinski, I had those translated, all his childhood stuff. You know, you need to get the formative stages for real biography, those early years.

MATTINGLY: The reason I ask, it's so timely, given we've seen J.D. Vance, Vice President Vance go over and you start to think, okay, well is this a thing that's happened before? Yes, it has. And the illustration of the picture you paint here and the stakes and the outcome, which are so dramatic on some of it leaves you a little bit hopeful.

I do ask, look, he was a maverick in terms of partisan politics, right? In '88, he didn't endorse the Democrat, if I recall correctly. Is there anything -- is there anybody like him anymore?

LUCE: He's really unusual. It's one of the reasons I was attracted to doing a biography of him. You know, he was a grand strategist. He was Kissinger's -- Henry Kissinger's great rival. But unlike Kissinger, he wasn't much of a team player. I mean, he was a very, very independent- minded, he'd argue with Jimmy Carter, the president he served it. They'd have standup fight. You know, this wasn't a Rubio-Trump relationship. Let's put it like that.

He wasn't a hawk, he wasn't a dove. He wasn't a realist. He wasn't an idealist. He was a Democrat. But as you point out, he endorsed H.W. Bush over Dukakis in the '88 election, voted for Nixon over McGovern in 1972. He was his own person.

And it's quite hard to get ahead in any political capital, including Washington, D.C., if you don't belong to a tribe and stick to that tribe's rules and sort of absorb its memos and then, you know, faithfully regurgitate them. He really, really didn't do that. He was his own person.

MATTINGLY: And also very talented bureaucratic infighter in that, which is amazing because, usually, you can't do that without the tribes or within the tribe. It's just -- it's a remarkable story and remarkable individual.

Ed Luce, thank you so much for coming in. I really appreciate it.

LUCE: A real pleasure. Thank you.

MATTINGLY: And the book, of course, is Zbig, The Life of Zbigniew Brezinski, America's Great Power Prophet.

Up next, our Business Leader series takes us to Omaha, Nebraska, where a second generation soul food restaurant is starting to worry about their customers amid all the tariff uncertainty.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:40:00]

MATTINGLY: It's time for our Business Leaders, our series where we chat with small business owners about the impact President Trump's tariffs are having. Some have been okay with them while many feel overwhelmed.

Today, we're heading to Omaha, Nebraska, to Big Mama's Kitchen and Catering, a soul food restaurant founded in 2007 by the late Patricia Big Mama Barron, a passionate home cook, turned entrepreneur, her children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren run the business today.

Owner Gladys Harrison, Big Mama's daughter, joins me now. Gladys, thank you so much for your time. Look, Big Mama's is a community staple, national recognition. Which products have tariffs impacted the most?

GLADYS HARRISON, OWNER, BIG MAMA'S KITCHEN AND CATERING: Thank you very much for having me. We have seen the effects of tariffs on our seasonings. Our oven fried chicken is our staple menu item. It's what we're known for. We've been featured on national television for our oven fried chicken. We sell the seasoning online. My mother wanted to feed people all over the world. That's where we've seen the greatest impact, and then on some of the supplies that we use for example, our cornbread. We used to use aluminum foil pans to prepare our cornbread, but that price has gone up 50 percent. And so now we're back to using as a skillet when we make cornbread.

MATTINGLY: So, has that resulted in any price increases for your customers? HARRISON: Not yet. We're trying to be creative in figuring out ways not to pass that cost on to our customers yet. Our restaurant is located in a part of the community where our community members don't have a lot of disposable income. And my mother, you know, wanted her restaurant to be a place where anybody could come and to be able to afford to eat.

And so we're doing things like not hiring anybody. You know, I've got positions that need to be filled, but we aren't going to hire anybody to keep our labor costs down so that we don't have to raise prices. I've got people that are learning how to do other jobs so that, you know, one person can do the job of two people so that we don't have to raise our prices.

But, unfortunately, I'm really going to have to think about this come next month when the company that blends our spices for us, you know, increases their prices.

MATTINGLY: You mentioned your mom and what she wanted out of this for the entire community. She lived the American dream, started the business based on a passion. Part of that was serving the community. What's your message to lawmakers about the impact these tariffs are having on your community?

HARRISON: Well, I belong to an organization called Small Business for America's Future, and they did a survey. And over 80 percent of us who were in this survey all agreed that the tariffs are a threat to the way that we do our business.

You know, we've been around for 18 years. I've survived the death of my dad, two of my sisters of Big Mama's, the coronavirus. But this year, what's going on with these tariffs is really going to make it very difficult for us.

And what's frustrating for me is, you know, who's out here looking out for small businesses like Big Mama's? You know, small business makes up such a large portion of the businesses that are in this country.

[18:45:04]

We employ, you know, more people -- those people you see in the background working. This is how they pay their bills. This is how they put food on the table. This is how they feed their kids.

And we're in jeopardy. If somebody doesn't fight for us, if somebody doesn't create some legislation that helps us out, and not just big business, I'm afraid that my family owned business, my mom's dream -- what I've been working hard for the last 18 years, and I won't be able to pass it on to my grandchildren.

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN HOST: Real quick. Before I let you go, I got to ask about your shirt -- home of the sweet potato pie ice cream. Tell us about the signature menu item people should be looking out for?

HARRISON: Our signature menu item is the oven fried chicken. And if you can't make it to Omaha, Nebraska to have our oven fried chicken, you can go online to bigmamaskitchen.com and order the exact same seasoning that we use to fry our chicken here. And you can fry it just like we do at home.

But if you ever come to Omaha, you got to try the oven fried chicken and the sweet potato pie ice cream. It is delicious.

MATTINGLY: The restaurant -- one more time -- is Big Mama's Kitchen and catering in Omaha, Nebraska. You can find their products online nationally.

Gladys Harrison, thank you so much. I appreciate it.

HARRISON: You're welcome. Thank you.

MATTINGLY: Well, up next, why the men who were just found guilty of robbing Kim Kardashian are all walking free tonight.

Stay with us.

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MATTINGLY: In our world lead, a verdict today in one of the most infamous celebrity heists, a Paris court found the ringleader and seven other people guilty in the 2016 robbery of Kim Kardashian. Most of them received prison sentences, but will walk free because they already served time. Prosecutors say the criminals posed as police broke into Kardashians hotel room during Paris Fashion Week. Zip-tied her held her at gunpoint and stole $6 million of jewelry.

CNN's Melissa Bell is in Paris.

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MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Phil, eight of the ten people who were accused of being involved in the robbery of Kim Kardashian here in Paris in 2016 have been found guilty, with several of them seeing prison sentences handed down, although none of them will face any more time in jail either because of time served or because some of those sentences were partly suspended sentences.

Still, Kim Kardashian herself has responded to the verdict, thanking the French authorities for the way this trial was conducted and for bringing justice in this case. She spoke again in her reaction, as she did at the courtroom behind me last week, of the trauma that this had inflicted on her, how this had been the most terrifying experience of her life. And even as he summed up, the presiding judge told the accused that their sentences had been relatively light, given the real pain and fear that she had gone through.

Kim Kardashian back in 2016, you'll remember that it was $10 million worth of her jewelry that had been stolen at the time. It took some time for her to speak publicly about what she'd been through. But when she did, you really felt the emotion and the fear of what she must have lived. She's spoken, of course, of the fact that she feared being raped. She

feared being killed. And again in front of this court spoke of those fears being very real and continuing to haunt her, today, Phil.

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MATTINGLY: Thanks to Melissa Bell in Paris for that report.

Well, ahead of this Memorial Day, there's a new effort to tell the stories of generations of American heroes who gave their lives for their country. We're going to show you how you can get involved. That's next.

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MATTINGLY: It's Memorial Day weekend in the U.S., a day set aside to honor the sacrifices made by generations of service members, including those whose heroism ended decades ago and overseas.

In our world lead, Jake Tapper has a look at a new effort to bring their stories closer to home.

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MARK IRELAND, SUPERINTENDENT, SICILY-ROME AMERICAN CEMETERY: I'm walking towards the grave of Ellen Ainsworth. She's buried here in plot C.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST, "THE LEAD" (voice-over): The final resting place of U.S. Army Second Lieutenant Ellen Ainsworth is far from her hometown of Glenwood City, Wisconsin, but the World War II Army nurse still draws visitors at Sicily-Rome American Cemetery.

IRELAND: So, as we take this sand and rub this across, her name for a family member, it creates this physical and emotional connection.

TAPPER: Sicily-Rome American Cemetery, about 40 miles south of Rome, is one of the cemeteries administered by the American Battle Monuments Commission, which maintains monuments to more than 200,000 of the nation's fallen heroes, outside of the United States, including the sites in Paris and Normandy.

BEN BRANDS, HISTORIAN, AMERICAN BATTLE MONUMENTS COMMISSION: They are powerful sites of remembrance that are an incredible place to visit and honor the dead of World War I and World War II. However, our audience is the American people, and many Americans will never get the chance to physically journey to one of our cemeteries.

TAPPER: The American Battle Monuments Commission has now partnered with the Department of Veterans Affairs to bring the stories of these service members closer to home, using the V.A.'s digital veterans legacy memorial.

JAMES LAPAGLIA, DIGITAL SERVICES OFFICER, DEPARTMENT OF VETERANS AFFAIRS: These American heroes deserve to be remembered and their stories to be told, just as any other veteran or service member.

TAPPER: V.A. program officer James LaPaglia says the digital database, launched in 2019, is intended to make the stories of every U.S. veteran more interactive, more vivid and more accessible.

LAPAGLIA: We wanted to take the cemetery experience beyond the confines of a -- of a gate or a cemetery wall.

TAPPER: With their data, the V.A. has created online memorial pages for more than 10 million U.S. service members in V.A. and V.A. grant funded cemeteries, Department of Defense cemeteries like Arlington National Cemetery and other sites like cemeteries abroad. Family members, friends and the public can submit photos and mementos to populate each page and share a veteran's story, such as Ainsworth's, which ended in February 1944, in Italy, while her hospital was under attack, she moved her patients to safety and died from her injuries days later.

It's a story that Mark Ireland, superintendent of the Sicily-Rome American cemetery, says still inspires.

IRELAND: That idea of, you know, fighting till the very end, not giving up.

TAPPER: And is just one of many to be honored by generations to come.

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MATTINGLY: Our thanks to Jake Tapper for that report.

Coming up on Sunday, "STATE OF THE UNION", House Speaker Mike Johnson, Democratic Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado and Republican Senator Ron Johnson of Wisconsin. That's Sunday morning at 9:00 Eastern and again at noon here on CNN.

You, of course, can follow the show on X @TheLeadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts.

Long weekend ahead. Everybody, have a great weekend.

Erin Burnett starts right now.