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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Admin Moves To Expand Social Media Vetting For International Students Who Want To Study In U.S.; Trump Pardons Former Virginia Sheriff Convicted Of Bribery; Ex-Assistant Testifies That Combs Said He Wanted To Kill Rapper Kid Cudi; The Evolving Nature Of Antisemitism; Dozens Hurt After Driver Plows Into Crowd In Liverpool. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired May 27, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

And this hour, President Trump is taking new steps today that could affect colleges and universities across the United States. The White House stopping all new appointments for international students who want to come to the United States to study as it moves to increase the vetting of applicants.

[18:00:08]

How will this work? Can this work? How big of an impact could it have?

Plus, a former Virginia sheriff convicted of bribery was supposed to report to jail today. Instead he got a full pardon from President Trump. We're going to break down his convictions in the White House's explanation in moments.

Also police are digging through the personal items left behind after a man drove his car through a parade crowd in Liverpool, England, CNN. On the scene tonight, as we learn new details about the man in custody and the allegations against him.

And a former assistant for Sean Diddy Combs testifying today in his criminal trial and laying out dramatic details of the moments of that Combs allegedly broke into the house of a rapper and romantic rival, Kid Cudi, and threatened to kill Mr. Cudi. Our reporters were inside the courtroom and will join us live on set ahead.

The Lead Tonight, President Trump intensifying his fight against higher education, or more specifically Harvard, the Trump administration pausing all new student visa appointments for all schools as the administration looks to require international students applying to study in the U.S. to go through a social media vetting process. The federal government says there were more than 1.1 million international students in the U.S. during the 2023-2024 school year.

CNN's Kylie Atwood's at the State Department, CNN's Kristen Holmes is at the White House. Kylie, walk us through this decision and how big of an impact it could have.

KYLIE ATWOOD, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes. This was guidance that was signed off on by the secretary of state and sent to all U.S. embassies and consulates around the world saying that there would now be a halt on all new student visa application processes.

Those appointments that they usually typically put on the calendar increasingly at this moment in time are being halted. And the reason for that is because the State Department is working on new guidance, new guidance to expand, as you said, the social media vetting.

Now we don't know what that process looks like. The State Department spokesperson was asked about it today. Here's what Tammy Bruce said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAMMY BRUCE, SPOKESPERSON, STATE DEPARTMENT: We're not going to lay out here with the media the nature of the steps that are taken, the methods that we use. It is a goal, as stated by the president and Secretary Rubio, to make sure that people who are here are here and understand what the law is that they don't have any criminal intent.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ATWOOD: Now, there are a few really critical questions here, Jake, the first of which is how long this review to develop this new bolstered social media vetting process is actually going to take. And the critical question surrounding that is because students who have been admitted to schools and are expected to enroll here in the United States in the fall would typically be making those appointments to go in and get their visas around.

Now they can't do it much earlier because they have to have been admitted, put their down payments down, get the documents from the universities that they actually need to apply for the visas. So, there is a question surrounding timing and the effect that this could have an enrollment in the fall.

The other question is how this process could actually impact how long it takes to go through that visa vetting process. We really don't know right now, but the cable did say that there are going to be new processes put into place, indicating that that visa processing time could be expanded.

TAPPER: And, Kristen, this is in addition to Trump's fight with Harvard University. And now the White House is directing federal agencies to cancel all remaining contracts with Harvard?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake. The Trump administration is sending a letter to federal agencies effectively canceling all remaining federal contracts with Harvard to the tune of a hundred million dollars. And in that letter, which CNN obtained, they say not only to cancel the existing contracts, but they also say this, going forward, we also encourage your agency to seek alternative vendors for future services where you had previously considered Harvard.

So, this is just their latest attempt to not only undermine but really kneecap the university who they have accused of alleged anti-Semitism on campus, of really promoting Democratic ideals and having a liberal bias, and Donald Trump over the weekend saying that they just had too many foreign students.

One thing to point out here, as we talk about all of these grants and contracts, we don't really know what exactly these contracts are for or what that grant money was for. You hear a lot of Trump's allies applauding this move saying that this is a way to kind of undercut the liberal elite in education. But one thing to keep in mind is that not all of this money is to fund students going to Harvard. A lot of the money is for different things, like medical research or technology research. So, what exactly this is doing, we don't really know the full extent yet, Jake.

[18:05:00]

TAPPER: All right. Kristen Holmes at the White House, Kylie Atwood at the State Department, thanks to both of you.

Let's bring in my panel to discuss Trump expanding his fight beyond schools such as Harvard. Shermichael, let me start with you. So, I know Republicans see the fight with Harvard is a winning issue going against another elite organization.

The Department of Commerce says international students contributed more than $50 billion to the US economy in just 2023. And this isn't just Harvard. I mean, this could financially hurt state colleges with international student programs. The U.S. economy of $50 billion is sucked out. Isn't that a concern at all?

SHERMICHAEL SINGLETON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, I think this is a political question. And what we have been able to do is put Democrats on the fence, defending elites. Once upon a time, Democrats were the champion party of the working class, working class Joe. We all remember that phrase. And now you have literally put the party that formally represented the working class on the fence of not only defending elitism and the hubris that I would argue comes with elitism in most cases, but also foreign students.

And looking into midterms, that's certainly not a predicament you want to be if you're the Democratic Party, particularly when you have AOC and Bernie Sanders traveling the country talking about let's defeat oligarchs and rich people. This is an interesting dichotomy to me. It puts a Democratic Party in a really tough spot.

TAPPER: So, let me just push back for one sec. So, here's an example of a foreigner who came to this country to an Ivy League school, This a little boy with a dream. His name was Elon Musk.

SINGLETON: I knew you were going to go -- I knew you were going to go to there.

TAPPER: And he came and he studied at the University of Pennsylvania. And guess what? He is now the world's richest man. He lives in the United States. He contributes jobs, he contributes companies. I mean, that is one of the arguments as to why there should be international students coming here because we get the best and the brightest of the world and they stay here.

SINGLETON: Jake, there's always exceptions to the rules, but I would be primarily concerned with the fact that there's a number of Chinese international students that are attending our Ivy League institutions. And for the most part, many of them are typically going back home. That's our number one adversarial nation right now.

Why in the world would we educate our enemy who we're attempting to usurp their lead and advantages in A.I., military advancements, economic advancements, et cetera. It makes no sense. I guarantee you this, China would absolutely not allow what we're allowing in this country. Why should we do it?

TAPPER: Jamal, what do you think?

JAMAL SIMMONS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think a lot of people around the country, a lot of schools around the country do depend on foreign students. We went to a historically black college, Morehouse College. Morehouse has a lot of foreign students, not only from Africa, from the Caribbean, also from the Middle East. People who come and you know what foreign students do? They pay full freight, right?

So, there are a lot of kids who are in school at these smaller schools, and they're going at discounted rates because the foreign students are actually helping to pay for the entire university, right? A lot of these students are on Pell Grants or on student aid, so they're able to do that. It helps the school stay alive.

Here's the thing, American competitiveness, this is a country that all around the world, we go and tell people that America's an exceptional place. We want them to come. We want them to emulate us. And now here we are pulling up the drawbridge and saying to people, no, you can't come, no, you can't participate. I know it's a great political argument going on for Harvard. But this isn't just about Harvard. This is about America and what kind of country we want to be around the world.

And we just celebrated Memorial Day. I think about the greatest generation, all these soldiers who go around the world, who died in service this country. Did they die for a country that's going to pull up the drawbridge and not let anybody else participate?

TAPPER: Let me just bring in Elie Honig to talk about the legality here. Can the Trump administration just do that to private institutions?

ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: I mean, you, these guys are going to debate whether this is good or bad policy. My concern is this is a flagrant, paradigmatic violation of the First Amendment. I mean, here we have the federal government creates a program where they dole out an enormously valuable asset, these very limited spots under the F1, J1 International Visa Program. And if they're deciding who gets them or not based on the content of their speech on social media, that is the First Amendment right there. There was a case last year in the US Supreme Court where the court said, and it was a 6-3 decision, you had conservatives, Chief Justice Roberts, Barrett and Kavanaugh joining with the liberals, they said, it is not the job of government to unbiased bias speech. It's not the job of government to fix bad speech. So, maybe it's good, maybe it's bad, you know, politically I can see it either way, but, man, does this straight up violate the First Amendment.

TAPPER: So, just a quick push, because I'm sure a lot of people out there are thinking does a student -- I'm just going to make up a country so don't get offended. Does a student in Pakistan have First Amendment rights in the United States?

HONIG: Well, so it's a very good question. You do have some rights. You don't have the same as a citizen. But once the government creates this program and says, we're going to pick and choose and we're going to do it on the basis of the speech of that person, then, yes, the program itself would in that case violate the First Amendment.

TAPPER: Shermichael, before the plans for new cuts against Harvard came, NPR aired an interview with the president of Harvard, Alan Garber. Take a listen to what he said about research funding cuts hurting the entire United States.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN GARBER, PRESIDENT HARVARD UNIVERSITY: The research funding is given to universities and other research institutions to carry out work that the -- research work that the federal government designates this high priority work.

[18:10:08]

Shutting off that work does not help the country even as it punishes Harvard. And it is hard to see the link between that and say, anti- Semitism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Wouldn't it be better for the Trump administration to make these targeted cuts more strategic with a scalpel, not with a meat cleaver, like, you know, okay, we're not going to fund, you know, this program that is like part of your humanities department, but we're going to continue to fund ALS research? Wouldn't that make more sense?

SINGLETON: I mean, I could see how one could make the argument to be more surgical, but Harvard has a $50 billion endowment. I'm not certain what percent of that endowment is actually liquid, but, hell, you take $10 billion of it and put it in the S&P 500, they'd probably generate close to a hundred million dollars a year on that alone. I could be off a little bit with the numbers.

But, Jake, from my perspective as a conservative, again, looking at the overall politics of this, over 60 percent of Americans do not have a college degree. That's a significant percent of people in this country. And when they turn on the local news and they see Democrats defending elitism and Harvard and Yale and Columbia and NYU, and then you have President Trump saying, well, I want to move this $3 billion around to trade schools, which is what most Americans would say, oh, yes, this is a great opportunity potentially for my son or grandson or nephew, it registers with them. It makes perfect sense to them.

Again, politically, optically, it does not seem to bode well if you're Democrats defending rich people who went to really expensive schools.

TAPPER: Jamal?

SIMMONS: The president lost again today in court in a case against WilmerHale. The president has been going around targeting individual companies. As a conservative, how do you tolerate a government that will go after individual law firms, individual universities, individual companies like Apple, and try to use government power to target them, not in a regulatory sense, not in a problem with the Justice Department where they violated something and they have to be investigated, just willy-nilly, just making decisions you should no longer participate?

TAPPER: All right. Thanks one and all, I appreciate it.

How President Trump is explaining his pardon for a former Virginia sheriff convicted of federal bribery charges. This pardon came just hours before the gentleman was set to report to prison. That's next.

Plus, we'll speak to a small business owner who says her company is struggling to cope with tariffs despite the fact that they manufacture their products in the United States.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:15:00]

TAPPER: Our Law and Justice Lead now, President Trump has pardoned a former Virginia sheriff just hours before the sheriff was supposed to report to prison. Scott Jenkins was the sheriff of Culpepper County, that's about 90 minutes southwest of D.C., before he was sentenced to ten years in prison for accepting $75,000 in bribes and padding his sheriff's department with untrained, wealthy Virginia businessmen.

CNN's Tom Foreman investigates Trump's latest pardon for a man whom Trump believes was a victim of what he calls President Biden's weaponized Justice Department.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SCOTT JENKINS, FORMER CULPEPPER COUNTY SHERIFF: You're scared. Honestly, you're scared you. You may have been a cop all your life, but you're sitting here going, you know, they want to put me in prison for life.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Former Virginia Sheriff Scott Jenkins was going to prison, federal prison, not for life, but for ten years. Now, instead, he is going free thanks to President Donald Trump who declared this Sheriff is a victim of an overzealous Biden Department of Justice and doesn't deserve to spend a single day in jail. He and his family have been dragged through hell.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I am your president of law and order.

FOREMAN: It might seem an odd move considering Trump's previous claims of strong support for police integrity and the seriousness of the case against the former sheriff. Last December, a jury found Jenkins guilty of conspiracy, fraud, and bribery in what federal prosecutors called a cash for badges scheme. At trial, prosecutors said people gave Jenkins thousands of dollars and he made them auxiliary deputies with no training. The jobs didn't pay, but prosecutors said those folks got badges, expanded gun rights and hopes of dodging traffic tickets and other legal entanglements.

So, why did Trump give him a pass? Just like hundreds of rioters at the Capitol and other allies Trump has pardoned, Jenkins has been a long and loud supporter of the president, on immigration, gun rights and complaints about an allegedly weaponized court system.

JENKINS: The noise I was making on those issues obviously being lockstep with the Trump administration and I was well known as a strong conservative sheriff.

FOREMAN: We don't know if that shaped Trump's decision. We only know he pushed the jury's verdict aside and declared Scott Jenkins will not be going to jail, but instead will have a wonderful and productive life. And if Jenkins, who had already appealed a conviction, feels any qualms about how it all played out, he's not letting on.

JENKINS: If you don't like the fact that a sheriff can choose to hire any damn person he chooses to swear in almost, I mean, there's a few restrictions, change the law.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOREMAN (on camera): We reached out to Jenkins and Trump for any further comment, nothing as of yet. But this we already know. Both of them will say they are big, big believers in the justice system but not when it holds them accountable. Jake?

TAPPER: Tom Foreman, thanks so much.

Joining us now to discuss Dr. Oscar Odom. He is a public safety expert who teaches at the University of Virginia. Dr. Odom, what do you make President Trump's full and unconditional pardon of the former sheriff?

OSCAR ODOM, J.D., EDD, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR, MASTER OF PUBLIC SAFETY PROGRAM, UNIVERSITY OF VIRGINIA: Well, you know, the different charges that was raised against him, he was found guilty. It is the president's prerogative to pardon people and, of course, the judge prerogative or go through all the facts of law to convict him.

[18:20:02]

So, he did that. He charged him, and the president gave him a pardon. So, that's his prerogative of doing it.

But, of course, we look at the wheels of justice, what actually happened, the documentation of it and where we are going on the next phase of it. And it was auxiliary badges when we look at what was taking place.

TAPPER: So, Trump ha has a pardon attorney, who's a very partisan MAGA guy. His name's Ed Martin. He tweeted from his personal account, quote, leave no MAGA behind, in reference to this pardon. There are a lot of ways that could be interpreted. This seems to me like the foremost way is if you are a member of Trump's universe, like you're a supportive guy MAGA, then you get a get out of jail free card.

ODOM: Yes. And, you know, every time when we look at stuff and we look at from a legal perspective, we always realize that there's two sides. And one side would say that if you're a MAGA guy, and this is what he's saying, you feel that he will take care of him. And then the other one can be that he feels that it possibly was unjust and he did it. The fact of saying MAGA to certain people signals a whole lot and says it's like a whistle call, so to speak, that this is this, but it could be somebody just stand up for something that they feel may have been right.

TAPPER: So, the indictment said that Jenkins suggested those who paid him bribes would get these law enforcement credentials. They could carry concealed firearms in all 50 states without a permit, et cetera, et cetera. Is it clear, is there a countervailing theory as to why the people who bribed Jenkins wanted this perk or why he gave these individuals this if it wasn't for bribes?

ODOM: Right. So, that's the thing, because in the law enforcement community, one of the things that we look at, we say, first of all, for auxiliary badge itself is nothing that's -- you consider it to be, it's a major thing. It's not an actual police badge. It's auxiliary, it's law, and they go through possibly a two-week training in order to get that badge in the state.

In the county in which he was indicted and convicted of, there, you can have an open carry permit, right, with no license whatsoever. All you have to do is be 18 years or older and you can openly carry in that state. Those benefits that they got from the other thing was had something to do with the concealed. So, if you had that weapon and you just had it out and you didn't have it concealed, you were able to carry there and you didn't even need to go that far to give them that because of the fact that you would've been able to carry anyway because it's an open carry state.

TAPPER: Well, let me ask you this other question. So, a law enforcement source of mine tells me that Virginia Police, Virginia State Police, were running a concurrent investigation against the sheriff, the former sheriff, but backed off when they learned the feds were doing it, which is not uncommon. You know, local and state authorities will back off if the feds are doing something.

ODOM: Yes. TAPPER: Do you think that there will be any appetite among the Virginia attorney general, the Virginia governor, both of whom are Republicans and big Trump supporters, to bring this back as a state case or not?

ODOM: No, I don't think they would come to state. Because, normally, even when it comes to different jurisdictions, when the federal government is involved and after they make their decisions, normally states don't go in afterwards and try to do it. And that's one of the areas that is exempt from double jeopardy because you cannot be tried twice of a crime. But even though --

TAPPER: but these were different charges.

ODOM: That's what I'm saying, right. But, no, I don't think that they would go to bring any charges against Jenkins.

TAPPER: Quickly, if you could, how big a problem is local sheriff's department corruption?

ODOM: I don't think that it's widespread. I think that this was one of the isolated incidents in policing in general. A lot of times, over 90 percent do a great job, but you always have that small percentage that try to buck or go outside the line and do something different. So, as a whole, law enforcement itself, they do a great job. But it's that small percentage that does something and then it casts a big raft against everybody that's participating in these different activities.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Odom, thanks so much. I appreciate it. We're lucky we got you here in New York today. I appreciate it. Thank you so much.

ODOM: Thanks for having me.

TAPPER: A former assistant to Sean Diddy Combs took the stand today in his criminal sex trafficking trial, what she allegedly saw behind the scenes, including violence, guns, and a lie detector test.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:25:00]

TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, moments ago, the jury for the Sean Combs racketeering and sex trafficking trial was dismissed for the day. Today began the third week of testimony with former personal assistant Capricorn Clark, offering a dramatic day of testimony detailing when Combs allegedly broke into the house of rapper and romantic rival Kid Cudi and threatened to kill him, allegedly. Combs has pleaded not guilty to all charges.

Here on set are CNN Anchor and Chief Legal Analyst Laura Coates and CNN's Kara Scannell, who are both inside court today and have done an amazing job covering this rough trial. I have to say it's really -- some of the details are awful. Laura, the jury has now heard from three former assistants to Diddy Combs, but the testimony today by Capricorn Clark was particularly dramatic. What did she have to say?

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF LEGAL ANALYST: Well, it was very emotional. She could hardly keep herself together. He's always teetering around the edge of breaking down and sobbing, and she did quite frequently. But this is a very consequential witness because she was somebody truly in the inner circle of Sean Diddy Combs, knew him before she worked for him. They were friends. They went way back. She was somebody he very much trusted.

Remember, the prosecution's case has all been about the inner circle comprising the enterprise. She talked about how she worked with Cassie Ventura, managed her career at one point in time, had to answer to Diddy. She talked about having been threatened when she first worked for Sean Diddy Combs, because she knew Suge Knight and was threatened to say, if I find out anything, I could actually hurt you.

There's also a comment she made about having been subjected to a lie detector test, not once or twice, but five times over five separate days, because they thought that she had stolen some jewels from -- the jewelry that were in the obsession of Sean Diddy Combs.

[18:30:00]

And then she also was the person present when they discovered that Kid Cudi and Cassie Ventura were dating and she was taken in the car. She says, kidnapped, brought to Kid Cudi's home, and she's the one that called to say that Diddy was inside this person's house and essentially a warning.

TAPPER: So, Capricorn got very emotional when Sean Diddy Combs' attorneys in particular were questioning her. She broke down. What stood out to you during the cross?

KARA SCANNELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I mean, I think what they were looking to do on the cross was to get to this issue of Cassie Ventura's independence. And because she was working with Ventura, had that bird's eye view into their relationship and her career, she was able to talk about some things that Cassie Ventura did on her own, including deciding to dye her hair highlighter yellow for an event and some of the songs that she put out.

And part of the defense here is they're trying to establish the counterargument that Combs was controlling everything that Ventura did, and that's why she couldn't leave. And coercion is key to the sex trafficking charge. So, I think they were trying to make that point to show that Cassie Ventura did have some independence. She was making her own decisions, you know?

And then -- but on crossed, the parts where she became very emotional and at one point kind of broke down, sobbing, was when she was talking about how she said she felt that Combs had blacklisted her from the industry, and that after she had gone back and forth several times, but after one time that she finally left, she had a very hard time getting any work in the industry at all.

And that's when she became very emotional saying, you know, she does have a complicated relationship with Combs, admired what he did professionally and the doors he opened but she also seemed to be struggling with just the power that he also seemed to have over her career going forward.

TAPPER: Yes. And, Laura, CNN Legal Analyst Joey Jackson says that the prosecution needs to show a pattern of criminal activities by Combs, a pattern to support the racketeering conspiracy charge, right? This is not -- he's not being tried for abuse. He's being tried for racketeering. Did Clark's testimony help the prosecutors achieve that? Did the defense make any headway with their crossover?

COATES: It's important to note what you've said and underscore it. He's not charged with abuse or drug related charges or gun related charges, or even an arson case as a standalone for the Kid Cudi car. So, they have to show that he was engaged in a pattern of behavior, more than one in a relative short amount of time. It can't be like year 1 and year 25.

They are making some headway to show that he has a violent temper. And when he directs people to adhere to his orders and wishes, there are consequences. However, they have to show more to really get that burden of proof met. But a really important point that they got out of this witness was this. All along, Cassie Ventura has been saying that it was Sean Diddy Combs who stopped her career, that his controlling ways and his desire to retain her essentially as a trafficked person was why her career was stalled.

This witness got in that she didn't think she was very talented. She was very beautiful, she said, but that she had a drug addiction that oftentimes became a hurdle she could not overcome in performances, that she was a studio artist, meaning she had to be engineered quite a lot in order to have her style replicated in the public eye.

And it gave a bird's eye view as to an alternative reason the defense wanted to say why Sean Diddy Combs' artist, Cassie Ventura, also girlfriend, was not as successful as she wanted to be, and even at one point said that she had the lion's share of Bad Boy Entertainment's attention as opposed to other artists who were more deserving. And only when the addiction started, only when she couldn't perform very well, did his attention start to dwindle, not because of what they say in the prosecution, was sex trafficking.

TAPPER: And, Kara, quickly, who do we expect to hear from tomorrow?

SCANNELL: So, they're expected to call people from the LAPD, all related to the break in at Kid Cudi's home and then also an arson investigator who investigated the car bomb on Kid Cudi's car. They also said that they're going to call a friend of Ventura's and then also Mia, who is a pseudonym for one of the victims in this case. She is someone who was an employee of Combs and someone who the defense has said they expect to provide even more of a bird's eye view into what it was like within Combs' world.

TAPPER: All right. Kara Scannell, Laura Coates, thanks to both of you.

You can catch more of Laura's coverage of the Diddy trial tonight on her show, Laura Coates Live, at 11:00 P.M. Eastern.

Our small business series takes us to Colorado next, where one clothing company owner is struggling with tariffs despite the fact that she manufactures her products in the United States. So, has she had to raise prices on customers? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

TAPPER: It is time for today's Business Leader. This is our series where we talk with small business owners from coast-to-coast about President Trump's tariffs. Several have been in favor of the tariffs. Many are feeling uncertain and overwhelmed.

Today, we're heading to Denver, Colorado, to American Made Apparel. That's a manufacturing company that produces clothing for college bookstores nationwide. President and owner Sunny Kim is joining me now.

And, Sunny, the argument from Trump administration officials for these tariffs in part is to bring manufacturing back to the U.S. from abroad. You work in manufacturing here in the United States, and you're still being impacted by the tariffs. Tell us about your experience.

SUNNY KIM, PRESIDENT AND OWNER, AMERICAN MADE APPAREL MFG., INC.: So, right, as far as sourcing goes, we try as much as we can to try and get everything that we need from local markets, but eventually down that supply chain, there's going to be somewhere along the line that's going to be affected by Chinese tariffs. Because, let's say, if I'm trying to source fabrics from California, it is a mill that's located there, but they themselves has to have to buy in yarn that is basically used, bought in from China to make tribal and fleece, and that is an ongoing product that I need to carry for my clients.

So, somewhere along the line that we've developed these supply chains over many years, obviously, that it takes time to get used to working with people and establishing pricing that's set. Those are all being affected now.

[18:40:00]

TAPPER: So, how are you handling these tariffs? Are you being forced to raise prices for your customers?

KIM: Well, for the interim, I've had to stock a lot more. Just kind of, you've probably been hearing that a lot. It's just trying to hedge against so much difference in price. I just stocked up on a lot of the product that I carry as far as fabrics and trims, just so that I can at least hold down my prices for now, but it's definitely going to affect me if these prices keep going up. And we really don't know. It's kind of a waiting game. So, I'm having to hold my prices to my clients at the wholesale level so that in the retail level for them, they're not being affected and kind of giving away that, at some point of the line, they're sourcing some part of it from China.

TAPPER: Are the tariffs actually translating into more demand for you? Because, I mean, you are an American manufacturing company. Theoretically, that should be happening.

KIM: So, we have been getting a lot more inquiries online. So, we've dealt with a lot of actually big companies that are currently manufacturing products overseas, especially in China. And I think it's more of a data collection element now because they just want to find out if our prices are even going to be viable.

It has opened kind of doors for people to understand that, hey, maybe offering a U.S. line of goods is something to consider, especially seeing it's so volatile trying to source in from China now. So, at least it's opened a little bit of avenue of opportunity. But at this point, we haven't landed any type of deals that ensure ongoing production and ongoing business with them. It's just more of like quoting a lot of people.

TAPPER: That's interesting. Do you think there's anything the federal government could do or should do so that a business like yours that does manufacture in the United States can grow and take advantage of this opportunity?

KIM: So, what we're up against is just the disparity between U.S. labor versus what Chinese laborers are paid. For example, for a skilled worker on my end, I might be paying $18 per hour for someone to be running on the line, but we're up against pricing of a $1.56 on average that I looked up for a Chinese sewer to be sewing the same things.

So, price point-wise, I'm not able to compete with any of that. But, you know, as far as being able to go forward with a positive attitude of just like, all right, well if I do land some products that is completely U.S.-made people on the consumer level have to expect that they have to pay more for it and be welcoming of it.

So, the true test would have to be at the consumer level, are they willing to pay higher prices for potentially the same product?

TAPPER: All right. Well the company is called American Made Apparel. American Made Apparel, it's in Denver, Colorado, and the business leader is Sunny Kim. Thanks so much for your time. I really appreciate it.

KIM: Thank you so much.

TAPPER: My next guest makes no secret about his former days as a neo- Nazi and his evolution from that since. He's going to join me next with a warning about extremism in America now and the rise of anti- Semitism.

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:47:10]

TAPPER: Our national lead now, a funeral service was held earlier today for Sarah Milgrim, one of the two Israeli embassy workers shot and killed last week outside the Capital Jewish Museum in Washington, D.C. One of the speakers noted that this morning, Sarah was supposed to have been in Israel celebrating with the family of the young man she was going to marry, Yaron Lischinsky.

The gunman who killed both of those innocent individuals now faces murder charges, shouted "Free Palestine" after he was arrested.

The tragedy is only the latest manifestation of antisemitism in America. Last month, an arsonist set fire to the Pennsylvania governor's mansion, while Governor Josh Shapiro, who is Jewish, and his family were sleeping inside, allegedly motivated by the same pro- Palestinian views, the arsonist.

My next guest is here with a warning that antisemitism is evolving. Arno Michaelis would know. He's a reformed neo-Nazi who now works with a group called parents for peace. It's an organization that tries to prevent extremism before it turns into all of this horror.

First of all, Arno, good to see you again.

Remind our viewers of your story quickly, if you could, how you became radicalized and more importantly, how you broke out of it.

ARNO MICHAELIS, FORMER NEO-NAZI: Thanks, Jake.

I was radicalized when I was 16 years old in 1987 by white power skinhead music. This was like pre-Internet, so it was via cassette tapes and records. And I spent seven years as a white nationalist skinhead. I left hate groups in 1994, really, because hate is exhausting.

It's a miserable way to live. It was destroying my life, destroying my family, and most importantly, really dooming my child to a life of hate was something I had to avoid.

TAPPER: And, Arno, you reached out to me the day before this horrible shooting. Youve been on the show before talking about these issues, and you reached out to me the day before this horrible shooting in downtown D.C. to tell me that you wanted to come on to talk about how antisemitism isn't just rising in America. It's evolving. Explain how.

MICHAELIS: Well, antisemitism is essentially the connective tissue of all violent extremism. At Parents for Peace, we coach families with radicalized loved one in regards to how to create an environment that's conducive to lead that loved one to a better place. And we work with all violent extremist ideologies, whether it's far right, far left, racial, religious, all of these ideologies have antisemitism in common. And I sadly, the murders allegedly committed by Elias Rodriguez were

done in the name of what he imagined to be social justice. And as popular as the social justice movement has become in our country.

[18:50:00]

And rightly so, in a broad sense, social justice is something we desperately need as a society. But it's important to understand that all violent extremists think they're doing something good when they're out murdering people. When I was a white power skinhead, I did a lot of damage by having a hate metal band and the record label that my band was on was called resistance.

So, this idea of resistance and resisting oppression and fighting against some ominous evil, which is always attributed to Jews, is common between all forms of violent extremism. And that's why civil society really needs to be concerned about it.

TAPPER: So, what signs should family members look for, especially parents who worry about what their children are absorbing online?

MICHAELIS: Well, the number one sign is isolation. If a child spends more time on a screen than they spend with friends or actually doing things in real life, that's a warning sign. And it's sad to say that the majority of parents in this country would see that situation happening.

So, if our children are burying themselves in screens, we really need to make an effort to engage with them, get outside, meet people in real life, engage with people in real life and not live life on a screen. We treat hate as an addiction, and when you're addicted to alcohol or drugs, you have to go find your alcohol and drugs somewhere. When you're addicted to hate, all you need is a screen and a data connection, and you can get all the hate you can possibly stand.

So, it's very important that we make sure that our young people are engaging with the real world and not just screens.

TAPPER: One of your colleagues says the best way to fight terrorism is through religion. Can you explain that?

MICHAELIS: Well, my colleague Mubin Shaikh is a self-described former terrorist in Muslim clothing. And Mubin had his epiphany when he started studying Islam from a Sufi perspective and realized that the Koran and everything it has to say, rather than actually justifying terrorism, it speaks the opposite.

So, when people understand the true nature of religion and see it as a reason and a motivation to see themselves and others and others in themselves, it can certainly become a de-radicalization asset.

TAPPER: Arno Michaelis, always great to have you on. Thank you so much for joining us.

MICHAELIS: Thank you, Jake. TAPPER: Police are revealing new details about the man arrested after

allegedly driving his car into a parade crowd. We're going live to the scene in Liverpool, England. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:57:08]

TAPPER: Our world lead now, investigators in Liverpool, England, are trying to understand why a 53-year-old man drove a minivan into a crowd of football fans yesterday, injuring 65 people. At least four of whom were children.

The driver was quickly arrested at the scene. Police say the suspect is in custody on suspicion of attempted murder, dangerous driving and driving while unfit through drugs.

CNN's Nic Robertson has this update on the investigation.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR (voice-over): A day later, Liverpool police searching for clues. Forensic teams scouring streets still littered from the soccer cup celebrations abruptly ended as a vehicle plowed into the crowds. The police calling it attempted murder.

DETECTIVE CHIEF SUPERINTENDENT KAREN JAUNDRIL, MERSEYSIDE POLICE: We have arrested a 53-year-old man from West Derby on suspicion of attempted murder, dangerous driving offenses and driving whilst unfit through drugs. He remains in custody where he is being interviewed.

ROBERTSON: Hundreds of thousands of fans crowded the streets as their team aboard an open top bus took a ten mile tour, showing off their latest trophy. How the driver got among them answered by the police.

ASSISTANT CHIEF CONSTANBLE JENNY SIMS, MERSEYSIDE POLICE: It is believed the driver of the Ford Galaxy car involved in this incident was able to follow an ambulance onto Water Street after the roadblock was temporarily lifted so that the ambulance crew could attend to a member of the public who was having a suspected heart attack.

ROBERTSON: The city still in shock.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it was a terrible thing. What happened yesterday shouldn't happen anywhere, felt disgusted after it when I heard.

ROBERTSON: Firefighters pulled four victims, including a child, from under a vehicle. Sixty-five people injured. Police say 50 of them taken to hospital, 11 of them remain there they say for treatment.

They describe their condition as recovering.

The British prime minister among many to pay their tribute to the victims. KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: My thoughts and the thoughts of

the whole country are with all of those that are affected. Liverpool stands together and the whole country stands with Liverpool.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ROBERTSON (on camera): Jake, it does seem as if the police have a good handle now on what happened, how it happened, who was responsible but why it happened. That's not so clear and I think it's going to take a long time for this city, long after this police tape comes down, long after this crime scene is cleared and the streets are open again for people. Here really to come to terms with a horrible tragedy that unfolded here at a moment of just beautiful celebration, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Our thanks to Nic Robertson in Liverpool.

You can follow me on Facebook, Instagram, Threads, X, and on TikTok @jaketapper. You can follow the show on X @theleadCNN. If you ever miss an episode of THE LEAD, you can listen to the show whence you get your podcast. All two hours just sitting there waiting for you to listen.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now. I'll see you tomorrow.