Return to Transcripts main page
The Lead with Jake Tapper
Suspect Charged In Anti-Semitic Terror Attack In Boulder, Colorado; Ukraine Launches Drone Attacks Deep Inside Russia; Rep. Don Bacon (R-NE) Is Interviewed About Ukraine Launching Audacious Drone Attacks Deep Inside Russia; Rep. Moulton: Dems Should Admit Mistakes & Be Honest With Voters. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired June 02, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO)
UNKNOWN: Yes.
UNKNOWN: Can we get some clarity, chief? We're hearing UCHealth says they have three victims there. Is it three or two?
UNKNOWN: Question is about victims at UCHealth.
STEPHEN REDFEARN, BOULDER POLICE: I don't have that clarity that you're asking for regarding the number. We've been told two. It's possible it's three. We may be not having updates on -- if people have been released. We can absolutely follow-up with that number. We confirm it up after this and let -- and put that out.
UNKNOWN: In the back with the hat.
UNKNOWN: Is there any prior knowledge if some as a potential threat before as threat?
UNKNOWN: So the question is, was there any prior knowledge that the perpetrator was a threat?
REDFEARN: Regarding the suspect, obviously, we're still looking into him, his whereabouts, all of that. He was not on our radar in Boulder. We don't -- we had no prior contacts with him here. I don't -- I can't speak to his criminal history. I'm not sure if the special agent in charge has anything to add, but this was not someone that we were aware of prior.
UNKNOWN: Yes.
UNKNOWN: Mr. Soliman has a wife, multiple children that is home, Colorado Springs. Given his status as a -- being here illegally the last two or three years, is there any knowledge of other than cooperating and what happens to them moving forward given the situation for his (inaudible)?
UNKNOWN: The question is about the suspect's family and their status and what might happen to them next. MARK MICHALEK, FBI SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE: As far as the family, as I
mentioned, we executed a search warrant at the residence in Colorado Springs last night and the family was cooperative for that. Regarding their status I would, just defer you to the Department of Homeland Security.
UNKNOWN: Sir, can you talk about what we're looking for, what you found in that search warrant?
MICHALEK: So, it was part of this investigation. It's a logical part of our investigation to see if there's additional evidence there. Evidence was recovered including digital evidence and we're reviewing that now to determine, as the acting U.S. Attorney said, if additional charges are warranted down the road.
UNKNOWN: Was he on your radar as Joint Terrorism Task Force like a person or as a (inaudible) suspect?
MICHALEK: So the question was, was the subject on our radar locally, as part of our Joint Terrorism Task Force? And the answer is no.
UNKNOWN: Okay. Thank you very much for being here today. That are -- those are all the questions we're gonna take.
UNKNOWN: (Inaudible). I was just curious about the incendiary. What are they made up of? Are you gonna talk about what they're made up of or how they're -- what is this actual device that he used?
UNKNOWN: Yeah, we'll answer one more.
UNKNONW: Sorry.
MICHALEK: So, last question on the specifics on the incendiary devices. There were really two chunks of incendiary devices that were recovered. We've referred to Molotov cocktails, which are, like glass jars with material in them that are combustible, flammable, like gasoline, and then a rag that's used with a fire to ignite them and throw them. In addition to that, it appeared he had a backpack, for like a weed killer, but that contained flammable liquid in it as well.
UNKNOWN: Alright. So later this afternoon, I can tell you that the U.S. Attorney's Office will have a brief news release that will be made public. We don't anticipate another large media briefing at any time in the future, but the prosecutor's offices, both the District Attorney as well as the U.S. Attorney's Office will have updates for the media as their cases proceed. And now at this time, our principals here do have another meeting to attend as they referred to. So thank you very much for coming today.
(END VIDEO)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to "The Lead." I am Jake Tapper, and we begin with the breaking news in our "National Lead." You have been watching law enforcement officials giving new details on yet another act of anti-Semitic terror carried out in the United States by someone claiming he was doing so in the name of the Palestinian people. Law enforcement announcing moments ago that at least 12 innocent people were injured in yesterday's attack in Boulder, Colorado. That's up from eight as they learned of four additional victims.
We also learned that the suspect, 45 year old Mohamed Sabry Soliman, is now facing 16 counts of attempted murder. That's in addition to the Department of Justice charging him with violating federal hate crimes laws. Here's what we know about what happened and we should note some of the images of the aftermath of the attack that we're about to show you might be difficult to watch.
A group of Jewish-Americans and others were participating at a peaceful, recurring outdoor march yesterday in support of the 58 hostages still being held by the terrorist group, Hamas, in Gaza.
[17:04:54]
Officials say that a man approached the marchers and used spray bottles filled with a flammable liquid, likely gasoline, as something of a makeshift blow torch. He was spraying these innocent people with fire.
The FBI says that the suspect is an Egyptian, an Egyptian national who is in this country illegally. They say he acted alone. They say he was yelling "Free Palestine" during the attack. In just a moment, we're gonna speak to a witness who stared down the murderous suspect or would be murderous suspect and says he heard the suspect say, quote, "you're killing my people so I kill you," unquote.
This heinous attack, of course, follows another anti-Semitic attack of terrorism on U.S. soil. It was less than two weeks ago, the two Israeli embassy workers, Yarin Leshinsky and Sarah Milgram, were shot and killed while leaving an event at the Capitol Jewish Museum in Washington DC. Their attacker shouting, "Free Palestine," telling officers that he did it for Gaza. That's a quote.
In April of course, Pennsylvania's Democratic governor, Josh Shapiro, who is Jewish, was targeted in an arson attack on the Governor's Mansion in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania. That's where he and his wife and children and extended family had gathered for the Jewish holiday of Passover. Warrants say that the suspect in that act of anti-Semitic terrorism told 911 operators that Governor Shapiro needs to know that he quote, "will not take part in his plans" for what he wants to do to the Palestinian people, but the suspect would not (inaudible).
And the suspect also said, quote, "he needs to stop having my friends killed," and quote, "our people have been put through too much by that monster," unquote. Needless to say, Governor Shapiro has nothing to do with what is going on in Gaza. He's the governor of Pennsylvania. He is not the governor of Palestine.
The Trump administration today is condemning the Boulder, Colorado attack and the immigration policies that allowed the suspect into this country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have seen two horrific cases of anti-Semitic violence in our country in the last two weeks, and it is unacceptable to this president. This terrorist was allowed into this country by the previous administration, was foolishly given a tourism visa, and then was illegally allowed to stay. These individuals are going to be deported, and we're not gonna tolerate such violence in our country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: The Department of Homeland Security says that the suspect in this incident, Mohamed Soliman, entered The United States in August 2022 on a nonimmigrant visitor visa. It expired in February 2023, then he was granted a two-year work authorization in March 2023, which expired earlier this year. CNN's Whitney Wild is on the ground in Boulder, Colorado for us. And Whitney, lots of new information today, some of which we just learned from that news conference. Tell us more.
WHITNEY WILD, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ORRESPONDENT: Well, Jake, in total, he's facing more than 40 charges. The maximum, prison sentence associated with those charges, Jake, would be more than 400 years behind bars. What we know right now, is that the U.S. Attorney and this -- the local attorney, the Boulder County District Attorney, plan to take their cases, which is the same case, but they are taking them separately. The state will handle the bulk of these violent charges. The U.S. attorney's office is going to handle the hate crime charge.
Jake, a new piece of information we learned today is that he intended to get a gun, but he could not because he was not a U.S. citizen. So he, you know, very clearly, according to law enforcement, and his own words following this -- his arrest and when he spoke with law enforcement, he said he would do it again. It was a remarkable moment inside that affidavit. There's much more to learn here, but at this point, this is a community that is reeling with more information coming to light.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNKNOWN: There is a male with a blowtorch setting people on fire. I know there's gonna be at least one party rolling around in flames.
WILD (voice-over): Using incendiary devices and a makeshift flamethrower, authorities say a man burned at least eight people at a Jewish community event in Boulder, Colorado Sunday afternoon while yelling, "Free Palestine." The FBI is investigating the case as an act of terrorism.
AV KORNFELD, WITNESS: The person who threw the Molotov cocktail had two more in his hand. And he was holding them, and he was yelling, and he was screaming at everybody. I think he was saying you're killing my people.
UNKNOWN: We need medical for a multiple burns on the courthouse lawn.
WILD (voice-over): An elderly holocaust survivor was among the victims. The suspect, 45-year-old Mohamed Sabry Soliman, sprayed gasoline while holding a lighter in the direction of marchers according to law enforcement.
UNKNOWN: He's making Molotov cocktails.
WILD (voice-over): Law enforcement says two Molotov cocktails were thrown and at least 14 more were found at the scene.
J. BISHOP GREWELL, U.S. ATTORNEY, COLORADO: He said that he had previously tried to purchase a firearm, but resorted to the Molotov cocktails when he could not purchase a gun because he was not a legal citizen.
WILD (voice-over): During the attack, Soliman took off his vest and shirt after they caught fire according to witnesses. Police say he was later treated for burns on his hands.
[17:10:00]
Soliman is charged with a federal hate crime and allegedly planning the anti-Semitic attack to target a weekly Jewish gathering, a "Run For Their Lives" event calling for the release of Israeli hostages in Gaza. According to an affidavit, he told the FBI he wanted to kill all Zionist people and wished they were all dead, stating he would do it again and that he had planned the attack for a year but was waiting for his daughter to graduate.
Soliman is in the country illegally according to Homeland Security. He is an Egyptian national and had applied for asylum in 2005 and was denied a visa in 2005, a law enforcement source told CNN. DHS says he entered the country in August 2022 as a nonimmigrant visitor and was granted a two-year work authorization in March 2023 that has since expired.
Soliman will appear in court today on charges of first degree murder, assault, and felony use of incendiary devices, among other charges. Anti-Semitic incidents have become increasingly violent. Sunday's attack coming after two Israeli staff members were shot and killed in Washington, D.C. outside an event at the Capitol Jewish Museum nearly two weeks ago.
And nearly two months after a man set fire to the Pennsylvania Governor's Mansion using Molotov cocktails.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WILD (On camera): Jake, we found a little bit more information in that press conference as well. There were 12 -- there is now a total of 12 victims. Law enforcement is also releasing an update on the other victims. They say that the -- so 10 are out of the hospital. Two remain in the hospital, and Boulder police say those were the two that were airlifted yesterday. Of course, everyone, wishing them the very best in their recovery, Jake.
TAPPER: Alright. Whitney Wild in Boulder, Colorado. Thank you so much for that report. Joining us now, Brian Horwitz. Brian was in Boulder this weekend to show his teenage niece and nephew the University of Colorado campus in hopes that they would enroll there. They were eating at a cafe when they suddenly witnessed this horrific attack unfold. Brian, thank you so much, for joining us. You say you actually got up from the table and ran toward the suspect and you took some video that we're gonna show. Tell us -- tell us about what happened.
BRIAN HORWITZ, WITNESS TO ATTACK IN BOULDER, COLORADO: Yeah. I mean, starting from the beginning thanks for having me, by the way. But starting from the beginning, we were all just sitting outside of a food hall, eating our lunch, saw the march on the other side of the street or the opposite side of the street going south on Pearl Street Mall. And they're quiet, peaceful, barely even -- barely talking at all, which is pretty typical of these types of marches.
And they moved past us again, just about, you know, five minutes later. And, about 10 minutes from the time that they passed us right at our table, getting to the courthouse, which is about 100 yards away, there was a woman who ran by us saying there was someone throwing fire at people over at the courthouse. So being familiar with the event and how these things typically operate, I kind of feared the worst, but expected that's what it was all about.
And so I jumped to run over to the into the courthouse in -- for the square rather. And, I just kind of tried to assess the situation. And what I -- what I came to see was an erratic man, which is the attacker, pacing back and forth with the two Molotov cocktails in his hands, as we -- the guy next to me tried to -- try and deescalate the situation a bit by kind of empathizing with him, talking about how, kept well, just kind of agreeing with him, but not trying to egg him on in any way.
But the attacker was yelling things like, you effing Zionist, kill my people, I kill you, and pointing different people saying, you're a killer, you're a killer, making eye contact with me, telling me that I was a killer and he'll kill us. And just looking around, you just -- you smelled gasoline from the flames that he was lighting. You just heard people screaming from the street, from a from a brick street. And kind of just on onlookers of the of the attack.
And then about, let's say, 30 people within the square just trying to help one another and trying to get people comfortable from what had sort of transpired prior to my getting there. It's pretty graphic to tell you. Wait, you can tell me.
TAPPER: Brian, you can -- yeah. You don't have to be graphic, obviously, out of respect to the victims. But you said you were -- you poured some water over the burns of some of the victims, some of whom were elderly. There's a report that one of the victims was a survivor of the Holocaust, 88-years-old. How did they seem? What did they say anything that you should share?
HORWITZ: Yeah. So I'm not sure who exactly was the Holocaust survivor of all the victims that we were trying to help. I assume it was probably the one who had the worst of the wounds. It was being catered to quite extensively. But grabbing the water back and forth from the fountain and trying to pour it on people's legs just to make it more comfortable.
[17:15:01]
The one thing I think that stuck out the most to me was how they're all -- I mean, obviously, they were all in pain, and they were all pretty much in shock and not really talking that much. But there was one woman who was lying down in the grass with her legs up right alongside one of her friends. Sorry. And she was a little bit more concerned with her friend, her family member than she was with herself who had a little bit of a more serious burn than she did with skin peeling up her leg, and different burns all over her body.
So, we worked on her, and then we got the water to pour back on the woman who had, basically, her pants off at that point because the pants had burned off of her legs. And so she was more concerned with her friend than her own health, which is obviously pretty incredible.
TAPPER: Brian Horwitz, take care of yourself. Okay? Take care of your niece and nephew. What a horrible, horrible ordeal. I'm sorry that you were part of that in any way, but we thank you for sharing your story.
HORWITZ: Thank you.
TAPPER: Joining us now is the mayor of Boulder, Aaron Brockett. Mayor Brockett, have you spoken to any of the victims or their families? Are you looking at other specific actions to further protect the Jewish community in Boulder?
AARON BROCKETT, BOULDER, COLORADO: Absolutely. And just I want to start out by making it clear this was a despicable act of terror against our local Jewish community and I condemn it in the strongest possible terms. It has been inspiring to see the outpouring of support from everyone in the community, for those who are affected, and for our Jewish community. In times of stress and struggle, Boulder does come together.
So I've been on the phone, constantly for the last 24 hours with members of the Jewish community, with members of our city staff, to make sure that everyone feels supported, make sure that everyone has the resources they need, to get through this terrible crisis together.
TAPPER: I'm wondering, this is the third such anti-Semitic act of terror that we've seen in the United States in recent months. We saw the attempted murder of not only the governor of Pennsylvania, but his entire family through arson. We saw the murders carried out outside the Jewish Museum in D.C. We've seen this horrific attack in Boulder. All three of the perpetrators, alleged perpetrators in these incidents have claimed that they were doing this for Palestine.
All three thought that the Jewish-Americans that were being targeted or Jew or, I guess Israelis in this in the D.C. case. They were being targeted, that it was okay to murder them, to protect the Palestinian people. And all three of them from the quote, unquote "left," and I just wonder, we've seen antisemitism on the right, we've seen antisemitism on the left. It's obviously a real problem on the left right now.
Do you think the Democratic Party needs to be doing more to condemn anti-Semitism and to make it clear that violence against Jews is not acceptable? Because there does seem to be an Overton window shifting where this kind of thing is acceptable. The Democratic Socialists of America, there was a story in "The Free Press" last week about how there was an internal debate in the DSA about whether killing those two Israelis was okay.
BROCKETT: No. I mean, violence like this is never acceptable. And it's certainly not acceptable here in Boulder, nor was it in, Pennsylvania or in D.C. And I think it's incumbent on all of us to condemn this kind of hate and this kind of needless violence. You can have your political differences. It's fair to have a debate and talk passionately about how you think things should be different.
But this kind of terror attack like we saw yesterday in Boulder, there's nothing to justify that. And I think it's important for all of us who are in elected office, who are public figures, to make it clear that anti-Semitism is unacceptable in our country, it's unacceptable in our community, and we need to get that message out there loud and clear because the attacks are only ratcheting up. It's completely unacceptable.
TAPPER: Boulder, Colorado Mayor Aaron Brockett, thank you so much for joining us today and our prayers are with the people of Boulder, Colorado, specifically the Jewish community in Boulder, Colorado.
Again, the suspect in this anti-Semitic terrorist attack is due in court this hour and we will monitor any updates coming from that courthouse.
Plus, Ukraine's surprise attack on Russia over the weekend, coordinated strikes well into Russian territory. The damage to Russian property, the damage to Russian -- Russia's ego, that's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:20:00]
TAPPER: In our "World Lead" today, Ukraine's coordinated drone attack on four of Russia's air bases on Sunday embarrassing their Russian invaders. Ukraine says it set a third of Russia's strategic cruise missile carriers on fire using drones smuggled into Russia. One drone fleet reached an airfield 2,800 miles from Ukraine's eastern border, roughly the distance from San Francisco to Washington, D.C. CNN's Nick Paton Walsh takes us now inside the audacious operation being called "Spider Web."
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A bird's eye view of humiliation. Ukrainian drones halfway across Russian Siberia, seconds from hitting the Kremlin's most prized bombers. But the data was bad for Moscow. A 117 drones hitting 41 long range bombers across Russia, a Ukrainian security source said.
A torn up skyline here in Belaya, exactly what Moscow dreaded and Ukraine needed, a boost to its flagging morale. Damaging Russia's war machine for sure, but maybe also its calculus in peace talks.
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, PREISDENT OF UKRAINE: Our Operation Spider Web yesterday proved that Russia must feel what its losses mean. That is what will push it toward diplomacy.
WALSH (voice-over): Ukraine hit Irkutsk, 4,500 kilometers away from Ukraine where Google Earth still shows similar propeller driven aircraft in the open, but they also struck Olenya right on the Arctic Circle.
[17:24:59]
Similar planes also on Google. Another example of something that just was not meant to happen in Russia's brutal war of choice.
The how was as extraordinary. Ukraine's Security Service Head, Vasyl Malyuk, commenting here.
VASIL MALYUK, UKRAINE'S SECURITY SERVICE HEAD (through text): How beautiful it looks, the airbase Belaya.
WALSH (voice-over): And releasing these images of the wooden mobile homes they used the roof cavities of to hide the drones.
Before their release, once Ukraine said, all their operatives were out of Russia. The planes hit mainly the Tupolev 95 and Tupolev 22. Ukrainian source said aging, easy to damage, hard to replace. They were partly behind the nightly terrors that beset Ukrainian civilians.
Whether these strikes make a dent in this daily toll will take weeks to learn. But it may also damage the Kremlin quicker away from the front lines. Its pride hit hard. Although state TV put on a fierce display of why Russia has been piling Ukraine so relentlessly. It may also too change its thinking perhaps towards peace talks that continued Monday in Istanbul. And of how long Russia can sustain this war if Ukraine keeps throwing painful surprises its way.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
WALSH (on camera): Jake, literally hours after those attacks, the talks in Istanbul between Ukraine and Russia, the second round come to an end. Very brief, very little progress. Russia representing its most maximalist set of demands yet, frankly, in a long awaited memorandum asking Ukraine to give up territory Russia doesn't even control yet, even to demobilize its military.
Another sign that Russia's certainly in no rush towards anything resembling a peace. But indeed, these attacks, far reaching, sophisticated, and as surprised as they were, may begin to influence that calculation, Jake.
TAPPER: Alright. Nick Paton Walsh, thanks so much. Really appreciate it. I'll speak about this attack next with a house Republican well known for his support for Ukraine. But first, some breaking news. We are standing by for the suspect in that anti-Semitic terrorist attack in Boulder, Colorado. We're standing by for him to appear in court. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:31:23]
TAPPER: And we're back with the World Lead. Ukraine's brazen attack inside Russia. Ukraine calls it Operation Spiderweb. Nebraska Republican Congressman Don Bacon joins us now. He's a retired Air Force Brigadier General.
Congressman, you have been a vocal supporter of continued USAID to Ukraine. You reacted on Twitter or X to this attack by saying, quote, Putin has sown the wind, it is now reaping the whirlwind. Explain to our viewers what you mean by that.
REP. DON BACON (R-NE): Well, your clip earlier today said it right. This is a war of choice. Putin didn't have to invade Ukraine. Ukraine's an innocent country, wanted to be a democracy, wanted free markets, wanted to be part of the West. And Russia wants to dominate Ukraine and make it a subservient nation. There's one problem, Ukrainians do not like that.
They detest being under Russian rule. They have centuries of knowledge of what that means. Joseph Stalin killed 4 million Ukrainians alone in the 1930s. That's just one chapter. But they invaded Ukraine. They're bombing cities. And I've studied Clausewitz, Sun Tzu, Jamani (ph) you name it. When you -- when initiate a war, you don't know what's going to happen. The unexpected happens.
And Russia's now paying for it. They've lost 830,000 military members, either dead or wounded, 830,000. Let's look at Senka, that's a huge number. Now they've just lost approximately 40 percent of their strategic bomber fleet. They're fighting a thinking, innovative people who are going to do their very best to defend their country from domination by Russia.
And I -- they've made a terrible mistake. Putin needs to find a way out of this somehow.
TAPPER: Russia laid out two options for a ceasefire after the most recent round of talks in Istanbul today. One option would grant Russia control over four major eastern regions of Ukraine illegally annexed by Russia in 2022. The other would require Ukraine to stop receiving all foreign military aid and intelligence, and Ukraine would have to agree not to mobilize the Ukrainian military. What's your reaction to this? Do you think Putin is just stringing Ukraine along here?
BACON: Well, he's stringing the President Trump along, if you ask me. He doesn't have any interest in peace with Ukraine. He's going to keep fighting until he thinks he cannot win. But what he's demanding is unacceptable. Imagine being having this to our, you know, said to our country, hey, we'll -- well, we'll give you peace, but you've got to surrender Texas, Florida, Louisiana, you know, Arkansas. We wouldn't do that.
And these are -- the -- these provinces, or states if you will, of Ukraine, have already been committed by Russia to be part of Ukraine in 1994 when Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons back to Russia, that their borders would be recognized and -- and -- and legitimized by Russia and by the United States and England for that matter.
And also to say that they can't mobilize their army to defend themselves against Russia, that is -- that is not right. And to say they can't align themselves with the West, this is -- this is Russia saying they want to dominate Ukraine. And if you're a Ukrainian patriot, there's two words to that. It's hell no. You're not going to do it. You're -- you're going to defend yourselves against this Russian domination that has -- that has been terrible. Bombing cities, kidnapping children, shooting POWs, this is what Russians do.
TAPPER: I want to turn to one domestic issue here because nearly 350,000 Nebraskans use Medicaid, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation. You were opposed to going too far with any Medicaid cuts in the so-called Big Beautiful Bill.
[17:35:04]
You still voted to pass it. Obviously this is probably not the last chance to vote on going too far with any Medicaid cuts in the so- called Big Beautiful Bill. You still voted to pass it. Obviously this is probably not the last chance to vote on this bill because the Senate will almost certainly make changes to it, and then you'll have to vote on it again. What is your message to any Nebraskans out there who use Medicaid and are allowed to use it?
I'm not talking about undocumented immigrants. I'm talking about people who -- who have every right to use Medicaid who are worried about losing their coverage, especially people who -- whose small children depend on Medicaid?
BACON: Well, Medicaid is very important in Nebraska, 50 percent of it goes to children, but another 25 percent goes to handicapped or disabled adults, and the rest goes to more able-bodied adults who are under the safety net. And I would -- I would point out the CBO numbers are quite a bit lower than Kaiser's numbers if I have read this correctly.
All the same, I wanted to be careful here, and I worked hard to point the reductions in areas I thought were tolerable. So we -- I did focus on work requirements for able-bodied adults that don't have young children. And according to the CBO, about 4 million people in America are affected with that. And these requirements are actually quite gentle, 20 hours a week. It could be volunteer hours. It could be seeking the skill sets like welding or whatever it may be if you're going to school or trying to get training in the trades. That all counts.
But 72 percent of Americans in the last poll supported work requirements, and that was about a 300 million or $300 billion savings right there. And then the CBO said there were 2.6 million people that are eligible or illegal. And I think -- so I wanted us to focus on those areas, and we did. Our hospitals did not want block grants. They didn't want the federal match award. TAPPER: Yes.
BACON: And I got those taken off the table. So I tried to do my -- my best to mitigate and try to steer these reductions in areas that I thought were the most tolerable. I thought most Americans would support if they were given all the facts, you know, you've got to have all the information to make a decision.
TAPPER: OK.
BACON: I'm trying to do -- we've got about areas folks -- I have 8 million people involved, and it's workforce requirements.
TAPPER: Yes.
BACON: It's ineligible people. Through CBO, 1.2 million are ineligible, and there's 1.4 million they said are on illegally. And that's where I tried to put the focus.
TAPPER: Yes.
BACON: That's what we did.
TAPPER: All right, Congressman. I really appreciate your time. Nebraska Congressman Don Bacon, a Republican. Thank you so much.
Let's go back live to Boulder, Colorado. The suspect in that anti- Semitic terrorist attack is making his first appearance in court. Let's listen.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- rights during the case. Do you waive further formal advisement of those rights, or would you like him further advised?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I waive any further reading or advisement, Your Honor. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With respect to bond, the court previously set bond on the written affidavit. It is set at $10 million cash only. The court has not done any non-monetary conditions. I'd like to know if either party wants to address either the amount or any non-monetary conditions of bond at this time. Mr. Koeffner (sp?).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Your Honor, I am going to reserve any bond argument for the future, so I don't have any response with regards to non-monetary conditions either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge, we're fine to address. We are fine addressing it at filing of charges.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So no changes to the bond at this time remains $10,000 cash only. And with respect to the filing of charges, is it accurate that the parties believed that the appropriate day was Thursday afternoon back in this courtroom?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Judge, we would jointly ask for Thursday, June 5th at 3.30.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, Your Honor, the defense is available at that time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thursday, June 5th at 3.30 back here in this physical courtroom for filing of charges. Anything further from the people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, Your Honor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: May I just have one moment to speak with Mr. Koeffner (ph)?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Nothing further, Your Honor. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. In that case, that concludes today's proceedings. I will see you again on Thursday at 3.30 in the afternoon for filing of charges. Mr. Suleiman (ph), thank you for appearing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Mr. Suleiman (ph).
TAPPER: And you have been watching part of the very first court appearance for the suspect in yesterday's anti-Semitic terrorist attack in Boulder, Colorado. John Miller joins us now. He's CNN's Chief Law Enforcement and Intelligence Analyst. John, what stands out to you in this case?
JOHN MILLER, CNN CHIEF LAW ENFORCEMENT AND INTELLIGENCE ANALYST: What stands out to me is the amount of time that this was planned. The suspect allegedly, according to the federal complaint and the -- and the state charges, said he'd been planning this for a year. In November of 2024, he tried to purchase a firearm and was turned down because his immigration status was uncertain at that time.
[17:40:09]
And the idea that if you look at what occurred yesterday this march is planned, he's already studied the march, he's already studied the route. He shows up with 18 Molotov cocktails in a plastic bin with a yellow top and he places that here.
He has his improvised flamethrower which people described as a blowtorch, which is basically a garden sprayer with a tank full of gasoline he's wearing on his back and the sprayer out front. And the -- and the idea that -- that he planned this for all this time knowing he's got a wife, five children at home and that he intended to stay and get caught. That's a remarkable shift from what we've seen where people spontaneously do these things by throwing it together in a week or planning to die at the scene or flee.
TAPPER: John Miller, thank you so much. We appreciate it. We'll be right back.
MILLER: Thanks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [17:45:17]
TAPPER: And we're back with our breaking news. That suspect in the anti-Semitic terrorist attack in Boulder, Colorado yesterday just appeared in court. A judge set the next court date for this Thursday. I want to bring in Scott Jennings and David Axelrod. Scott, obviously we're all horrified by what happened in Boulder. What -- what's been your response?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, this is horrific. And what more do we need to see, Jake, before we realize this Free Palestine movement is nothing more than a domestic terror organization right now. I mean, we had the killings in Washington a couple of weeks ago. We had this issue in Colorado. We've seen, you know, the activities on college campuses now for months and months and months and months.
The rise of anti-Semitism in America, the rise in the number of people who have come to America who hold anti-American views, anti-Western views and anti-Semitic views and are now willing to act on it. It is absolutely outrageous. And I think as a society, we need to understand we are dealing with domestic terrorism. It's growing more violent by the day.
And if we don't deal with it, these kinds of things are going to keep happening in cities all over the place. It's awful. And we need to come to grips with the fight that we're in right now in America, a fight for the future of our country and the future of Western civilization, in my opinion.
TAPPER: David Axelrod?
DAVID AXELROD, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. No, listen, Jake, I'm the son of a Jewish refugee who escaped, his home was blown up and he escaped from actually Ukraine back in the day and came here to seek refuge. And so, you know, I -- I feel very, very deep. I'm not -- I haven't come to this lately. I feel very deeply about this issue. And I think questions will be asked about how this guy tried to get a gun.
He was refused the gun because he was -- he was not supposed to be in the country and nothing was done about that. I think that is a fair -- a fair question to ask. But we also, you know, when we -- when I was in the White House, it was the FBI who kept close tabs on all of this stuff. I don't know why they failed there.
And I think -- and I'm worried a little bit about what's going on now because there's a shift away from that work to other kinds of work. And I think it makes us more vulnerable. So there are serious -- there are serious questions to be asked about this.
I don't think it's the occasion for sort of blanket condemnation of everyone who may feel critical of the Israeli policies in Gaza, but certainly I agree with Scott that it's alarming to see this uptick in anti-Semitism, which you know, Jake, has been going on for years, even before October 7th. TAPPER: Yes, no, it has. Let's change the subject for a second. I was on a Bill Maher show on HBO the other night. Democratic Congressman Seth Moulton of Massachusetts was a fellow panelist. I was struck by something he said when we were discussing the doldrums that Democrats were in and what Democrats need to do to win elections again. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. SETH MOULTON (D-MA): I think part of winning elections is just starting with a little mea culpa and saying, yes, we were wrong. We were wrong. We -- we've been perceived out of touch with a lot of Americans about not being honest about a range of issues. There's not really a problem at the southern border or inflation really isn't that bad. And Biden's fine. So let's just be honest. Take this opportunity to say, hey, we were wrong about that, and then we can move forward.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So I thought that was interesting, David, because I -- I've never heard -- he's the only politician, he's the only Democratic elected official that I can think of other than, you know, Dean Phillips and a handful of others maybe that -- that have said, like, we need to acknowledge to the American people that we were wrong when we vouched for Joe Biden. What -- what do you think?
AXELROD: Yes. I think a lot of people are coming around to that now. But listen, I think he's right about the other stuff, too. I think the Democratic Party has to ask itself how the party of working people came to be seen by so many working people as a party of elites and institutions that have failed them. I'm not here as a surrogate for either party. And -- but --
TAPPER: Right.
AXELROD: -- I think that it's also important to talk about President Trump is doing a kind of tear down. And the question is, what are you going to build next? Are you the party of restoration, or are you going to build something new? Are you the party of renewal? And I think that's the other question Democrats have to tackle.
TAPPER: Scott, your reaction?
JENNINGS: Yes, look, I -- I think that what he wants Democrats to do is impossible, because so much of what Democrats ran on in 2024, they're doubling down on in 2025. And the reason they've lost the working class, and make no mistake, they have, some of it's economic.
[17:50:04]
A lot of it is simply cultural. I mean, this adherence to wanting to put boys and girls sports, the fighting for illegal immigrants in this country to be returned to this country, to be given benefits of all kinds. These are deeply held cultural issues that Democrats are fighting for, and that the working class of this country is strongly opposed to. Until you jettison these things, how do you even have a conversation about anything else? And I think until they come to grips with that, they're going to struggle with the working class of middle America.
AXELROD: Yes, I think the middle -- the working class of middle America is concerned about the cost of food on their table. They're concerned about the cost of housing. They're concerned about the cost of energy. And they elected Donald Trump in part because he said he would do something about that. And so far, he's done a lot to enrich his own family, and not much to enrich theirs.
And I think as long as that's the case, you're going to hear people like Scott, who is kind of a surrogate for the Republican Party, try and deflect attention to these other things. I agree. I think Democrats made mistakes on some of these cultural issues. But the focus of most people is on the things that most closely affect them.
JENNINGS: With all due respect, Donald Trump has better numbers on the economy than Democrats right now, despite all the rhetoric and all the doom and gloom, apocalyptic tales. The President's got better numbers than Democrats on the economy.
TAPPER: All right, Scott, Scott, Scott.
AXELROD: I would look at the CNN poll that just came out and reflect on the fact that a large majority, 58 percent, say the government should be doing more. The Republican numbers are diminishing on a lot of key issues, including immigration, by the way, because there's not -- and I give the President credit on the border. I think the questions are on some of the other stuff he's doing.
But on the economy, there is very little to point to. And in fact, these -- these tariffs are only going to raise costs. So I think you're going to be talking more and more about social issues unless he gets on the stick and does something about economic issues.
TAPPER: Scott?
JENNINGS: Well, I -- I just disagree with David. I think working-class Americans see Donald Trump as fighting for them, and they see the Democratic Party elites as being out of touch with them, not just on the economy but on a range of issues. I think these things are more interconnected than you want to believe.
And, you know, if you can't trust what a Democrat says about, you know, something that seems like an 80-20 or a 90-10 or a 95-5 issue, then why would I trust you when you're out here crapping on Donald Trump's economic agenda? And by the way, I just -- I don't believe that people are going away from the president on his economic policies. They do believe he's fighting for working-class Americans.
They do believe he has, you know, the things he is doing are more for Main Street than Wall Street right now, and I do believe he has a longer leash than you're giving him right now to enact his agenda, which is still unfolding, of course, in the Congress right now.
AXELROD: Look at the CNN poll.
TAPPER: Let me --
AXELROD: Democrats and Republicans are now even on economic issues. You got to ask yourself --
JENNINGS: Did you not see Harry Enten's report this morning, the party of the working class, the party of the middle class? The Democrats have completely lost --
TAPPER: I want to -- I want to bring up one thing if I can gentlemen. Gentlemen, I'd just like to change the subject quickly, if I could, because Iowa Republican Senator Joni Ernst seems unbothered about the outrage over her response to concerns about Medicaid cuts hurting people.
This happened during a town hall on Friday. I want you to take a listen to what Ernst originally said after an attendee shouted, people will die, in response to talking about Medicaid cuts, and then what she posted on social media to -- as a response to the outrage. Let's -- let's roll that tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. JONI ERNST (R-IA): People are not -- well, we all are going to die.
I made an incorrect assumption that everyone in the auditorium understood that, yes, we are all going to perish from this earth. So, I apologize. And I'm really, really glad that I did not have to bring up the subject of the tooth fairy as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So, we only have a minute, so I have to allot only 30 seconds per, but -- but Scott, you -- you think that doubling down on that and kind of going into the trolling realm, if there's not a better term for it, is the right way to handle this?
JENNINGS: I wouldn't have posted the follow-up video. In fact, the -- the answer she gave in the town hall, the first 98 percent of it was correct. She was talking about taking illegal immigrants off of Medicaid. She was talking about the need for work requirements. And she was talking about the need to basically protect the program for people who need it from the people who were scamming it. I mean, that is the correct message. She had it right -- she had it right in the town hall meeting, and then she deviated at the end.
I wouldn't have posted the follow-up video myself, but I think the Republicans can actually win this debate. Getting illegals off of Medicaid and getting people up off of grandma's couch, able-bodied, working-aged men, that's where we need to be, and that's exactly what the bill is doing.
TAPPER: David, what do you think?
[17:54:57]
AXELROD: I mean, that's how I would cast -- that's how I would cast this. I think it was -- I think Scott's right. She said what she said at the end of a longer answer and probably could have gotten away with that.
But putting up that -- that spot the next day because people will be affected. When you take 10, you know, 7, 8, 9 million people off of Medicaid, there will be people who will die. There will be people who are affected. It was really insensitive of her to put that video up and politically stupid.
TAPPER: All right. Scott Jennings, David Axelrod, thanks to both of you. Really appreciate it.
Coming up, much more from Boulder, Colorado. The suspect in yesterday's anti-Semitic terrorist attack just appeared in court. The number of those injured in his attack is now up to 12. It was 8. Now it's 12. I'm going to speak with a Republican congressman in Colorado about the attack and also about anti-Semitism in America. Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
