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The Lead with Jake Tapper
Gov. Abbott Reports Number Of Missing Dramatically Rises To 161; Trump, Netanyahu Meet To Discuss Potential Ceasefire Deal; Trump Admin's Evolving Stance On The Jeffrey Epstein Case. Aired 5-6p ET
Aired July 08, 2025 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[17:00:00]
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The death is enormous. Are you going to ask for investigation? Who is to blame here?
GOV. GREG ABBOTT, (R-TX): Right. So I'm going to talk about two different things. The first part of your question and that is an investigation. We know a special session's coming in about 10 days. That's where I would say where it begins.
Candidly, those investigations will begin by both the House and Senate before we go into session. So probably beginning later this week or the early part of next week, there'll be committees formed that are already kind of working on ideas about ways to address this.
Second party question needs to be addressed. You ask, I'm going to use your words, who's to blame? Know this, that's the word choice of losers. Let me explain one thing about Texas, and that is Texas, every square inch of our state cares about football. You could be in Hunt, Texas, Huntsville, Texas, Houston, Texas, any size community that care about football, high school, Friday Night Lights, college football or pro.
And know this, every football team makes mistakes. The losing teams are the ones that try to point out who's to blame. The championship teams are the ones that say, don't worry about it, man, we got this. We're going to make sure that we go score again, then we're going to win this game. The way winners talk is not to point fingers, they talk about solutions.
What Texas is all about is solutions. In fact, I want to read you something that I received last night that's worth emphasizing to put this in context. "Tragedy has come, that part is done. What we do now, who we are now, that's what the story is still being written. Let it be one of grace, of grit, of fierce love in the face of grief.
Let it be the kind of story that proves that the Hill country may flood, but it does not fail. Say what you will about Texas, but when the rivers rise, so do we. Not with blame, not with bitterness, but with boots on the ground, arms around strangers and hearts wide open. That's the Texas I know and that's the America that I believe in."
What this person wrote is what I know is true for all Texans and what we will achieve every single day. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, for -- what kind of legislation do you ought to see come from the special session?
REP. DUSTIN BURROWS (R-TX): You know, part of the legislative process is policies not made in a vacuum. We have ideas. I've served on two investigatory committees out of the House before I was speaker, both Uvalde and Panhandle wildfires. There are things and things that we can talk about, but it is too early to commit to know the specifics until we actually talk to the members of the community and hear what they think, talk to the experts in the field, talk to the first responders, that's what legislative hearings are for. We are ready to get started.
The legislators I talked to, the members of the House and I know the Senate are very interested in finding solutions to not accept that we can't do better. But we will have those hearings, we will synthesize what we get and we will come up with legislation that I believe will make it to the governor's desk and make us a stronger, better, more resilient Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor Abbott, to you sir --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor, governor, what do you say to these families that say these solutions may be a little too late?
ABBOTT: Well, so one thing that we're focused on is making sure that we deliver the right solutions. One thing the speaker just said is worth emphasizing, and that is that for us to provide real solutions, we actually need to hear from the people who are the ones most affected. The ones most affected. They're dealing with the grievance of having lost a child or lost a business or otherwise have their lives turned upside down. They don't have the capability right now providing that information.
We'll talk to local leaders, importantly, not just here but across the state. And we want to make sure that we address what happened here, but at the same time, we want to make sure that we are able to implement measures that are going to be able to prevent loss in other regions going forward. So we have a workout for us. But I know the members of the House and members of the Senate, I know will work and get some meaningful things done.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible).
[17:05:07]
ABBOTT: So again, my focus isn't on trying to say oh, you did wrong or you should have done better there. My job is to bring Texas and Texans together and make sure that we immediately start delivering on solutions. You talk about the heroic effort and no one has seen the level of response as what Texas has provided over the past four days or so. And we continue to maintain that response here while also going to the state capitol and working on around the clock responses there to make sure that we do deliver real solutions for these people sitting right behind you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
ABBOTT: Sure. So what -- your question is about what local officials knew, you'd have to ask them. Now, what the state was aware of, the state was aware that there was a possible serious flooding event days in advance. And we prepositioned assets and resources and personnel. And remember the flood began on Friday morning, we originally positioned those assets, resources and personnel on Wednesday. Then when greater clarity was discerned on Thursday, we moved them closer, added and made sure that we had adequate supply going into Friday.
So, we were ready with the resources on the ground to be able to quickly respond. Some people say, well, we responded so fast. One reason we did respond fast is because we had assets here already. That said, we didn't know the magnitude of the storm. We knew there was a flash flood warning and if you heard a flash flood warning, no one would know that would be a 30 foot high tsunami wall of water, I don't think.
But all I could tell you is what we -- the information we had, the state had and that we acted on was information that catalyzed us to begin putting assets and resources in place two days before the event happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) two more --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Governor Abbott --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: To follow here --
ABBOTT: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Inaudible) We are not prepared. I think we need from the other side we work together. With all due respect, I had no idea were going to be here today. I was out with a team, about 180 of us. (Inaudible) day morning. I'm a 28-year-old from here (inaudible). We were not left resources. I mean, there has (inaudible). How to figure out how they're here was that told our team (inaudible) where we're sitting right now (inaudible).
Early out today, last night, I spent about seven and a half hours doing an article on the Facebook. I don't use social media. A couple days ago there was a vineyard, no more touches (inaudible). I was -- I was like, look, I don't need social media. I'm going to pull this up on social media. I hope that was gone in the vineyard within 10 minutes we had 20 people and 18.
It was going crazy. Every -- that whole vineyard, over 100 acres is taken care of in three days. God bless all the people that showed up. We had people who are not certified probably condone and please about 90 percent of the recovery activity. We are so grateful. Everyone (inaudible). But we are strong, we can get better. (Inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yesterday I was driving after about seven hours of making a post of resources (inaudible) and I am passionately driving (inaudible) saw Navy SEALs were walking out with me. We asked for a ride out to Mystic, I took them, I asked what they were doing. They said, we went down there. They pretty much declared this coffee (ph) that they would go on, they would several, several days, they could really widen up. They were so efficient.
If I can say so myself, I know they recovered. They help those families that now have answers to questions out there. They said, ma'am, we're done. Where do you want it? I said, I got you things.
We started up for my test. Without five of us coming up 11 night. We got word that there was no -- we stopped, we surveyed, untouched in, completely untouched land.
[17:10:10]
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ten feet?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ten feet from the road. We said this is where we're going to be. They went back this lesson (ph) and I went out. I went to (inaudible) running for the night before we said we found about three feet of that day. So I took some volunteers and went out for two and a half hours last night, we cleared the land completely.
We made it to Ripley, show up at 8:00 a.m. today, made it feel game rewarded (ph), myself, 28 years old who just had passion for my city and helping us recover the wind fair, 150 people with us, we told them I'm supporting (inaudible) but say you're with the Hunt Volunteer Fire Department, they've let you through. We got authorized to have -- we already had an excavator out there of 336 excavators. We already had from 15 kids, we had one single entity that was small. We were ready to go. We were working hard.
We had a plan. I had one fourth of a mile of machinery that I was authorized from Hunt Police, Hunt Fire, Ingram Police, Ingram Fire escort front pack half a mile all the way from (inaudible) to City West Church. This area was from Casa Bonita Camp Mystic. We have this crew coming across the road from us, we're overlooking, it's 60 foot drop you all, it's completely flat. The debris is at maybe like a 60 degree angle, it's easy to walk it, but it's hollow and it's ready to be monstered. We had it ready. We were working on it properly.
They show up because they just come out of nowhere. Bigger excavators, triple domain. I'm not going to say what they said. They said to a very pretty well known Navy SEALs, get the F off this. I know nothing.
I don't know politics. I don't have access to what's going on. I've been working 15 hour shifts. I was up until 6:00 in the morning the other day sending people that were coming to Walmart saying, hey, I'm official personnel certified search and rescue, they sent us to Highway 39. I'm assuming there's a shelter out there for us that we can go through all bunker down we'll assigned. And I say, this recorded contact said I was not here (inaudible) 6:00 in the morning I (inaudible).
Long story short, these people show up, they tell us to leave. They say, hey, we're going to work the water you all workout. Start working that hill 30 minutes later. Hey, no, you all are going to work half that hill.
Yes, sir. I'm (inaudible). We had -- I got 200 volunteers certified Navy SEAL (inaudible). We said, where are we going? We had all that equipment. Where are we going?
JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: We get a microphone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Get out of here, all of you. I sat there for an hour and a half to meet people looking up to things. What do we do? What is this? (Inaudible).
TAPPER: All right, we're going to cut away. The governor there taking a question from a member of the community we can't fully understand here. We're going to continue to monitor the governor's press conference. But welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.
We start this news with breaking news and devastating shocking news in the aftermath from the catastrophic July 4th flooding in central Texas. Just moments ago, the governor of Texas, Republican Greg Abbott, said there are at least 161people known to be missing in Kerr County alone. We previously had been told that the number was closer to 20 for Texas as a whole, but now we're being told 161 missing. The governor vowed that each person missing will be found.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ABBOTT: We will not stop until every missing person is accounted for. Know this also, there very likely could be more added to that list.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:15:00]
TAPPER: This shocking news that the toll of those missing is much higher than previously thought, at least eight times higher comes as the death toll of those confirmed lost in the flood also continues to grow. At least 109 people, 30 of them children, have been confirmed dead. We are learning more about the victims. Some of them include Anna Margaret Bellows. She was only 8 years old.
She's among the victims from Camp Mystic. Another eight-year-old Mystic camper, Linnie McCown, the Austin American Statesman published a statement from their father saying his daughter, quote, "filled our hearts with so much joy we cannot begin to explain." Eight-year-old Mystic campers Hannah and Rebecca Lawrence are also on this grim list. Their parents say they were twins who, quote, "shared a bond only twins could understand."
Also lost Odessa police officer Bailey Martin, Odessa Police Department saying that Martin was on a trip with his family to the Guadalupe River near Kerrville, Texas for the Fourth of July holiday week. And these families, along with so many others, are going through unimaginable pain and grief.
Meanwhile, some officials in Texas are facing some serious questions about preparedness and whether they acted on any flood prevention measures in this region, referred to in Texas as flash flood alley in this area where flash flood killed 10 campers in 1987. Today, the lieutenant governor of Texas, Dan Patrick, says flood warning sirens could well have saved lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LT. GOV. DAN PATRICK, TEXAS: But the city can't afford it, then the state will step up and we need to have these in place by the next summer. We've had flash floods before, nothing like this. But had they heard those sirens screaming out loud, maybe that would have made them get out of their trailers or their tents and climb to safety.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: We will dive into why such sirens were not installed in hard hit Kerr County where as of now nearly 90 people have been confirmed dead.
Despite sensible, logical questions about what could have been done better and where blame may lie for this tragedy being as bad as it has been, the Texas governor just minutes ago suggested that asking who's to blame is, quote, "the language of losers." And the governor compared this to a football game and a football quarterback who promises to do better next time instead of pointing the finger of blame.
I assure our viewers that we do not think that questioning officials in the Texas government about warnings that were unheeded and advice from experts that was not taken, we do not think that's the language of losers. We think it is the duty of accountability and a responsibility of all of us after such a horrific tragedy.
Let's go straight to CNN's Isabel Rosales in Kerrville, Texas.
And Isabel, we just heard from Governor Abbott, that there are now 161 known people to be missing just in Kerr County.
ISABEL ROSALES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Jake. I am in Center Point, which is in Kerr County. And by far this has been the most devastated county through this flash flood incident. I mean you're talking about over 80 people that have died here in Kerr County alone. So this figure has been incredibly important.
This is a figure, the number of missing that reporters, community members have been asking for since this occurred on July the fourth. Every single press conference to try to get an understanding of what volunteers like this and first responders are looking for, how many people are they out scouring the Guadalupe River to try to find? So far we've only had really an understanding of Camp Mystic, the counselors and the campers there, that number and now we're seeing it jump from over 20 to 161 known to be missing here in Kerr County. So this is an important figure to try to -- for us and the community to try to get an understanding of how many people still are out there that need to be -- answers need to be given to their loved ones.
And of course we heard the question from a reporter there asking the governor who is to -- who is to blame here for this loss of life and the lack of warning in the Texas floods, and as you mentioned, he says, you know, this is the talk of losers, we don't do that in Texas. Giving analogy of football here that the winning team focuses on solutions and not on a blame game. Jake.
TAPPER: Isabel, we'll touch on that in a second. But CNN has some brand new reporting involving Camp Mystic, the site of so much loss. Tell us more.
[17:20:03]
ROSALES: Right. So CNN just obtained new records that show that two days before these deadly floods, a state inspector was actually on site at Camp Mystic and certified that the camp had an emergency plan in place, a plan that was posted there at Camp Mystic for counselors and campers to take a look at. He also certified that all the cabins and all the buildings were safe. This would have included the bubble in where most of those youngest campers were staying, that building that was devastated. We saw images of the walls just being busted through, it was very close to the river there.
On July 2, that inspector of the Texas Department of State and Health Services also confirmed that Camp Mystic had a state mandated plan for, quote, "emergency shelter and for evacuation in case of an emergency." So in light of this report, in light of all of this, it's raising questions on whether that disaster plan was adequate and whether it was followed in this moment of an emergency through all of this flooding.
Now, we did reach out to the state health department, a spokesperson told us that they do not maintain copies of these emergency plans, but every single time that they do annual inspection, they go on site and they review that. And that the plan, Jake, would include what to do in the case of flooding.
Now, we did reach out to Camp Mystic, they didn't respond to CNN's phone calls or e-mails about this report. But we do want to note that counselors did in those moments, according to witness accounts, go and help those campers get to higher ground. But as we saw, the waters rose so quickly that for many of them, there simply wasn't enough time to get out of danger.
We also, CNN, spoke to a camp council counselor there at Camp Mystic who says that there was a power outage at 4:00 in the morning. So that would have meant that the PA system announcing an emergency wouldn't have been operational. She also told CNN that per policy, phones were not allowed for camp counselors or the campers there. So that would have meant that they wouldn't have received those emergency alerts from the National Weather Service either, indicating a total lack of communication, a lack of a blackout. It's not clear here if that emergency plan for Camp Mystic would have included what to do in the case of not having communication, Jake.
TAPPER: All right, Isabel Rosales in Center Point, Texas, stay with us.
If you're just tuning in the big breaking news and we're bringing in CNN Security Correspondent Josh Campbell, who's from this hard hit area in Texas, the big breaking news is that while the previous number of those thought missing in the horrific Texas floods with 109 reported dead with -- the reported number of missing was, until an hour or so ago, we thought the number was about 20 or so, we were just told by the governor that in Kerr County alone, there are 161 people missing. And he said that number could well go up.
Josh, you're from this area. This is a staggering rise in the number of people missing. What might this indicate?
JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's a -- it's a gut punch. I mean, I've covered a lot of tragedies here. When it happens at the place where you're from, I mean, it obviously isn't easy to hear, but then when you hear those numbers continue to go up and up and up and just this drastic rise there that you just mentioned now 161 people that are unaccounted for. And, you know, watching that area where the governor was holding a press conference, I mean, that place there in Hunt, Texas, just around the bend where I grew up from, these are places that everyone there locally will go, you enjoy each other's company. We have visitors that come in from all across the country, indeed worldwide, that come to the Hill Country area for recreation.
And I mentioned those visitors because this is something that isn't just impacting the Hill Country area there, but is also likely to impact many more. And that's because as we've been covering this, I've been speaking with public safety sources who say that one particular area of concern that they had in addition to those camps also was the RV parks that were there, where you have people that come in from all over, again, in order to spend a July 4th holiday weekend along the beautiful banks of the Guadalupe River. But those RVs in particular, we know that so many were just washed away, people losing their life, and so many of them are unaccounted for right now. So it's a tragedy all around. The governor mentioned there the number of resources that are now on site that are providing assistance trying to find people, trying to recover people who may be missing.
It is a -- it's a backbreaking effort to go out there in those types of conditions and then to know that even if someone may be presumed dead because they haven't been found over a certain amount of time, they still want to bring that kind of closure to family members, to surviving loved ones who just want to know what happened to their loved one there. So it's tough all around, Jake.
And the final point I just wanted to make is, you know, this whole idea of winners and losers that the governor just mentioned there, obviously, you know, sports there in Texas, particularly football, you know, very popular, but it's interesting that I've been talking to family and friends since this happened, and a lot of them have serious questions about what type of alert system was in place prior to those -- the river rising very rapidly. And the question was the National Weather Service, it appears, did its job to send out a warning around 1:00 a.m. on July 4. But we've talked to public safety experts who describe what they call that final mile. So the National Weather Service does its part to say, look, a dangerous condition is coming this way. What did local emergency management officials do with that information?
[17:25:43]
And was there a text alert that was sent out to people there in the area to warn them that a potentially deadly situation was about to occur? I spoke with a lot of people there, I don't know anyone who got that alert, Jake.
TAPPER: Yes, and Josh, just before I let you go, because you are a Texan from this part of the country, the governor, Governor Abbott there, suggesting that anybody asking who's to blame or any questions along those lines, given the fact that there do seem to be some serious questions that need to be asked, in fact, the lieutenant governor, you know, certainly no member of the media, certainly no liberal, was talking about how there needs to be some sort of alarm system for that part of the state, given what happened. This is an area called flash flood alley. This is an area where campers were killed in a flash flood in 1987. What was your reaction when you heard the governor say anybody looking for answers, looking for blame, et cetera, is using the -- he called it the language of losers and he compared it to how a football team would behave after losing a game. As a Texan, what did you make of that?
CAMPBELL: Well, I think if you talk with people there locally, I mean, that sports metaphor only goes so far because anyone who's played sports, as I did there in school, you know that the coaches tell you the leadership is also about accountability. And it will be interesting to watch with the governor because he appears to be saying two separate things, one being that he announced that there is a special session that is coming up where officials there will be looking to potentially address what may have gone wrong here. And so it sounds like he's saying that accountability and finding answers is OK. I think what he's also saying at the same time is he doesn't want those questions right now from the media.
So, you know, again, the one theme that I hear from people there locally is that they're not reflexively just trying to blame their local officials. I mean, these politicians that are there are, people that they elected, I mean, if they're in office, presumably the majority of people there want them in office. And so it's not about just reflexive blame, but it's about knowing, A, the systems were in place, B, the people that are in charge were actually doing what they were responsible to do. And then C, this is a -- this is one event, but there could be others.
And so they want to know, living in flash flood alley, as you say, that the systems are in place and should something like this happen in the future, that all of the systems that should be working are, and if they're not, they just simply want them fixed. They want answers, Jake.
TAPPER: All right. Josh Campbell, our national security correspondent who also is from that part of Texas. We'll have much more from Texas ahead. How this catastrophe compares so much to another flood disaster in Texas. My next guest survived that flooding disaster of 1987.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:32:09]
TAPPER: We have an update in our breaking news. The death toll from the Texas floods has now risen to 110, 110 lives confirmed lost. This after Texas Governor Greg Abbott just announced that a number of people missing has risen dramatically from around 20 to 161 people. Let's go now to CNN's Leigh Waldman. Leigh, you were at that presser with Governor Abbott. You asked him a question. He seemed to sidestep.
LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Exactly, Jake. We asked him a question that rose from an earlier local press conference asking about who was in charge and what steps were taken during those critical hours before that first alert came in at 1:14 in the morning on Friday and when the wall of water arrived here just before 5:00 a.m. And again, what we've seen from these officials here is sidestepping the blame. We asked him if he was concerned and what he was looking into personally.
And he said again, they're focusing on the rescue operations, not focused on pointing fingers. At this point, we got in a second question to Chief Nim Kidd, the head of the Texas Division of Emergency Management, asking when the state was starting to move the resources and get in contact with Kerr County officials here. He says that contact started on Wednesday, Jake, days before this catastrophic flooding moved into this area.
We also asked him why were evacuations not listed? Then he said he's not getting into that. Instead, reiterated that it was for a large swath of area that these alerts were coming in for, but wouldn't talk more about those evacuations.
TAPPER: All right, Leigh Waldman, in Hunt, Texas. Thanks so much.
I want to turn now to former Kerr County Commissioner Tom Moser, who retired in 2021. Tom, what was your reaction to Texas Governor Abbott saying there are now at least 161 people known to be missing in Kerr County alone?
TOM MOSER, FORMER KERR COUNTY COMMISSIONER: Well, I just heard that. That's -- that's devastating. That really surprises me that it jumped that quick -- quickly. But if he said that he's got good information, I believe him. It's tragic.
TAPPER: Obviously, a lot of people in Texas and around the country are -- are seeking answers. I want you to take a listen to how Governor Abbott responded when asked about who might be to blame for the failures to alert individuals who later died. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): I'm going to use your words. Who's to blame? Know this. That's the word choice of losers. Let me explain one thing about Texas, and that is Texas, every square inch of our state cares about football. You could be in Hunt, Texas, Huntsville, Texas, Houston, Texas, any size community, they care about football, high school, Friday Night Lights, college football or pro.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: He went on to make the point that quarterbacks of winning teams don't point fingers. They just pledged to do better. What's your reaction to that?
[17:35:06]
MOSER: Well, my reaction, Jake, is could we have a better system? The answer is yes, I think we can. And the way I think we would do that is use the National Weather Service the way that's been used. But there's other technologies that exist to predict what the -- where the water would rise up in what areas at Kerr County, OK, based on digitized topographical information and other analytical models that exist in other sources. So the thing to do is to identify early in advance. And I think that can be done with technology that exists today that didn't exist several years ago and implement that before you send out alerts. OK. And I think that would be even before the even rain event happens and be able to quantify what it would be.
TAPPER: So when you were county commissioner in Kerr County nine years ago, 2016, you declared that Kerr County, Texas was, quote, probably the highest risk area in the state for flooding. A "New York Times" reporter pointed out that that same year you and other Kerr County officials were considering a $50,000 engineering study. You were in favor it -- unfavor of such a study to figure out how to have a better warning system. Commissioner H.A. Baldwin at the time reportedly voted against it and said, quote, I think this whole thing is a little extravagant for Kerr County with sirens and such, unquote.
That commissioner is no longer with us. I don't -- I'm not trying to impugn him. But I wonder if that type of reluctance to spend money on something that could have kept people safe is a problem that you faced as a county commissioner in Kerr County.
MOSER: Well, let me tell you what -- what set the stage for that. There was deaths down in Wimberley in a flooding event, people vacationing. So we took that information, I did, it created a group of people. We looked at how to improve the flood warning system in Kerr County. That was in like 2018. I had a meeting that I chaired with all the city officials, all the county officials. And at that meeting, we identified how to do it, what we could do, including sirens. There were a number of people in that meeting that objected to sirens just because of inadvertent activity of the sirens and disturbing people.
We proceeded with trying to get funding for our plan without the sirens. We applied for state grants. We were not successful in doing that. But knowing what's happened in Kerrville in the past is primarily people crossing low water crossings. We did install, the county install, low water passing gauges to let everybody know when it was safe and unsafe to pass to my knowledge. OK, but it would be good to have something for -- for out of state -- out of town visitors that are camping there. And that's what the objective is. And I think that's what the governor is saying. Let's look forward. Let's get a robust system now. I think that can easily be done. And it can be done quickly in a matter of a few years.
And it's not talking about millions of dollars. It's talking about a few, I mean, billions of -- talking about a few million dollars to do that, in my judgment.
TAPPER: Yes, I mean, we heard the lieutenant governor talking about if the -- if Kerr County needs funding, the state is there. But as you noted, the state has not always been there. And the same "New York Times" reporter also pointed out on social media quote, while the state has identified $54 billion in flood control needs, the legislature has funded only a fraction of that. They have other priorities. This year, lawmakers approved $51 billion in tax relief. Food for thought, I guess. Tom Moser, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate it.
MOSER: OK. I think -- I think this thing's going to get funded.
TAPPER: Well, I hope so. This disaster shares eerie parallels with another. In July of 1987, a flash flood hit Hill Country, Texas, and the Guadalupe River rose 30 feet and more than 300 children from various churches were attending camp at the Pot O' Gold Ranch and had to evacuate. Tragically, one of the camp buses got stuck in the water and 10 children were killed.
Joining us now is Reverend David Simmons. He survived that flood at the Pot O' Gold Ranch when he was 16 years old. And David, Reverend, when you heard about the tragedy this weekend, what -- what went through your mind?
REV. DAVID SIMMONS, 1987 TEXAS FLOOD SURVIVOR: Well, honestly, Jake, it is quite shocked because it's been a number of years since we really gathered with friends and -- and retold this story. But I was actually listening, had seen it on the background and heard your reporter just out of nowhere mentioned that covered Texas had 26 feet of water rise in 45 minutes. And, you know, that really brought me right back to where we were, you know, 38 years ago, experiencing that. And then grieving the fact that there were going to be people that were going to experience this kind of loss and suffering again.
[17:40:12]
TAPPER: It must be very difficult to -- to see this happen a second time as if nobody learned anything from the first time.
SIMMONS: Yes. And then it was -- it was shocking. And many of us witnessed that bus get washed away. And I know there's hundreds of other campers who are reliving that this time and just asking ourselves, what can we do to make sure this doesn't happen again?
TAPPER: And what do you think should be done? What -- what could be done to make sure that I mean, obviously, horrible natural disasters happen. Life is cruel and can be miserable. But there are also steps that governments can take, authorities can take to try to keep their people as safe as possible. Do you think this could have been averted?
SIMMONS: Well, I'm not an expert to know that. In particular, I will say that I know in the political environment, blame is often a default go to. But I work in a health care industry now. We're grateful to work for a wonderful -- wonderful organization, Penn State Health, where, you know, when things go wrong, we -- we make sure that we we're not jumping to blame. But we're really trying to look at the underlying system, see what we can change in the system. We know that broken systems will lead to behaviors which lead to outcomes that can be very devastating for patients. So we're very committed for the safety of our patients to work.
We just want the same from our public officials who -- who are helping to maintain the safety of our children as well. So I would hope that our public officials could get serious about what it would take to -- to prevent this from happening again.
TAPPER: You're a man of God. You're a chaplain. You're a reverend. How do you make sense of all these children dying?
SIMMONS: Well, Jake, that's a -- that's quite a big question, and it's one that we've spent a lot of time thinking about. I personally, from my Christian faith, recognize that, you know, we live in a broken world. We humans have a lot more agency in -- in what happens than we realize. We often hope and pray that God is sort of moving the chess pieces in a grand design. But really, if we go back to even the beginning pages of our holy scriptures, we see that human beings, from my theological perspective, to control this world. And so we're responsible for these kinds of events. And I, you know, how do we get through it? God's always promised not to move all the chess pieces just the right way, but rather instead just to walk with us through it. And I do pray that God is walking with these families who are grieving, hurting, who are experiencing horrific nightmare.
TAPPER: Yes, I pray so, too. Reverend David Simmons, thank you so much.
We're going to continue to follow the updates coming from Texas. We're also turning to other major headlines of the day. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[17:45:21]
TAPPER: In our World Lead, President Trump and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are meeting again right now to discuss a potential ceasefire deal between Israel and Hamas. In a cabinet meeting earlier today, President Trump's foreign envoy, Steve Witkoff, said he is hopeful that they will have a deal by the end of the week as negotiators are making progress working through the remaining issues.
Joining us now is Ruby Chen. His son, Itay, was killed on October 7th. Itay's body is still being held hostage in Gaza. Witkoff said that 10 living hostages and nine murdered hostages could be released under this deal. Are you satisfied with the proposal you wanted to go through?
RUBY CHEN, SON, ITAY, BODY BEING HELD HOSTAGE IN GAZA: Well, we had hopes that, you know, we would have an agreement, yesterday. Unfortunately, there was another agreement signed a A.I. collaboration agreement. We thought we would be seeing an agreement for a ceasefire and hostage release. So that was the expectation.
TAPPER: If a deal is reached, what would you like to see happen next?
CHEN: I think that this deal is a partial deal, and I think after 21 months, all of us feel like it is time to find a way to put an end to this tragedy of 50 hostages being held, including two American citizens, one of them being my son.
TAPPER: When Itay is returned home, how do you plan to honor him? How do you plan to -- to celebrate his life?
CHEN: Well, Jake, we still have a little bit of hope because Hamas until this day is not recognized in any way that, A, he is in their possession and B, what his physical status is. And maybe I'll pause for a moment and just, you know, the big news of today. And, you know, there's so many families that feel this agony of missing people and suddenly 161 families now join as well.
And as someone that has been living this for 21 months, I just want to say I feel for them and know how that agony looks like. And everyone has hope until you are able to get to that gate or see that, you know, conclusion that you need to get to. So we still have that hope, and we hope that maybe we have a miracle waiting for us.
TAPPER: OK, Ruby Chen, good to see you, as always. Thanks so much for joining us.
CHEN: Thanks for having us.
TAPPER: In our Politics Lead quote, how can people be expected to have faith in Trump if he won't release Epstein files? That post by Elon Musk this afternoon gets at a serious question prompted by MAGA fans, among others, after the Justice Department asserted in a memo that convicted sex offender and multimillionaire, Jeffrey Epstein, did not blackmail high profile clients, was not murdered before he was found dead in his jail cell in 2019 and, in fact, had no client list. Despite the fact that the very same administration officials are now asserting there is no there, there, they -- many of them were the ones ginning up the controversy before President Trump was reelected.
And while they were in office, the Justice Department memo first obtained by Axios also comes one month after the billionaire Tesla founder took to his platform, X, as his alliance with President Trump dissolved, quote, time to drop the really big bomb. Trump is in the Epstein files. That is the real reason why they have not been made public, unquote. Musk deleted that post two days later, but the new memo has put Musk posting this meme, among others. It's a guy putting on progressively more clown makeup with the text. We will release the Epstein list. We just need more time.
The Epstein list is on my desk. There is no Epstein list with full clown regalia. The desk part refers to a February clip. The list is on my desk. A February clip from "Fox" that was played of Pam Bondi, take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN ROBERTS, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?
PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: It's sitting on my desk right now to review. That's been a directive by President Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: But here was Attorney General Bondi earlier today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BONDI: I was asked a question about the client list, and my response was it's sitting on my desk to be reviewed, meaning the file along with the JFK, MLK files as well. That's what I meant by that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Trump was asked about the memo today by a "New York Post" reporter, and he expressed indignation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking. We have Texas. We have this. We have all of the things. And are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[17:50:12]
TAPPER: Mr. President, the reason people are talking about this guy is because people serving in the highest levels of your administration have been talking about this guy for years and talking about how the list the Epstein list needs to be released. Here's then Republican vice presidential nominee J.D. Vance in October 2024.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Everybody in politics has a vice that's much worse than alcoholism is the way that I put it. But we -- we --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Released the list.
VANCE: Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list. That is an important thing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Here's Kash Patel on a podcast just over a year before he became FBI director.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENNY JOHNSON: Why is the FBI protecting the greatest pederast, the -- the largest scale pederast in human history?
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: Simple because of who's on that list.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Dan Bongino, a former Secret Service agent turned right wing podcaster, he's now the FBI deputy director. Here he is on his show in February. He was named deputy director just a few weeks later.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAN BONGINO: I'm not ever going to let this story go because of what I heard from a source about Bill Clinton on a plane with Jeffrey Epstein. I'm not letting it go ever, ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Bill Clinton spokesperson released a statement in 2019 saying that the former president, quote, knows nothing about the terrible crimes. We should note the presence of one's name in the files does not mean they were involved in any way in sex trafficking or having sex with any of Epstein's victims. Here's Alina Habba, now interim U.S. Attorney for New Jersey. This is her in February.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALINA HABBA: In this case, in Epstein's case, it is incredibly disturbing. We have flight logs. We have information names that will come out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is it going to be shocking?
HABBA: I don't see how it's not shocking.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: I'm shocked that none of that's been released. In February this year, Attorney General Bondi teased the imminent arrival of the Epstein files and President Trump's eldest son, Don Jr. posted about the news quote, LFG. An acronym for let's effing go. A week later, the Trump administration invited a slew of conservative mega influencers to the White House, purporting to give them a first look at a batch of documents labeled the Epstein files phase one, but none of it was a smoking gun. The vast majority of information had already been made publicly available. CNN's Evan Perez reported in March that Attorney General Bondi directed FBI agents in some cases to drop their work on China and Iran and focus on redacting the files before their release. Remember, Trump made part of this his platform. Here he is during the 2024 campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you declassify the Epstein files?
TRUMP: Yes, yes, I would.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right.
TRUMP: I guess I would. I think that less so because, you know, you don't know it. You don't want to affect people's lives if it's phony stuff in there, because it's a lot of phony stuff with that whole world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: So what's really going on here? I mean, what's really going on? Well, experts such as our friend, Julie Brown, from the "Miami Herald," who has been covering Epstein for years, say that the notion of Epstein having an easy to access client list is likely a red herring. And that's what the Trump administration is relying on, that there likely isn't a list per se.
But they are also now relying on the fact that because it's MAGA influencers who often put forward so many falsehoods, legacy news media won't push the point that while there might not be a list, there are certainly files that can be released. There's a trove of information that the Trump administration is right now refusing to share, information that could well point to the powerful folks who availed themselves of the sex trafficking victims of Jeffrey Epstein. If you go, for example, to the FBI vault online, you can see that there are 22 files containing thousands of pages.
Most of them are heavily redacted. Now, sure, of course, redact the names and identifying characteristics of the victims. But why not make the victim and witness testimonies public? As Julie Brown points out, there's still so much we don't know from the investigations by U.S. attorneys in Miami and in New York, witness interviews in the U.S. Virgin Islands and New Mexico.
Brown writes that there's still more evidence that hasn't been published, including, quote, Epstein kept video cameras in most of his residences, and Epstein's autopsy, nor the report of the investigation into his death has ever been made public. So while there may not be an official client list to be released, as the administration is now saying, there's a lot of extra information that is not being made public, despite Trump's Justice Department basically now saying case closed. This isn't going to go away. The public, you, you're being played for fools here.
[17:54:53] Some major updates from Texas in the last hour. Governor Greg Abbott just reported a staggering rise in the number of those missing. It's now up to 161, just in one county, Kerr County, Texas. The death toll is also going up to 110. We're going to tell you what CNN's learned about repeated efforts in recent years to upgrade the weather warning system in Central Texas, efforts that were not heeded. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Welcome to the lead. I'm Jake Tapper. And the major heartbreaking breaking news this hour out of Texas with a death toll from the flash flood currently stands at 110. Just a few minutes ago, Texas Governor Greg Abbott revealed that at least 161 people as of now are missing from one county, Kerr County, just one county. It's a much higher number than anyone suspected. He later clarified that the total number of missing is 173.
[17:59:55]
And amid the grief, we continue hearing questions about whether enough was done or could have been done to alert people along the Guadalupe River that this catastrophic flash flood was thundering up on them in the pre-dawn hours.
