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The Lead with Jake Tapper

110 People Confirmed Dead In Central Texas Floods; Gov. Greg Abbott (R-TX) Reports Number Of Missing Dramatically Rises To 173; First Black Female Senator Reflects On Her Legacy; CNN Speaks To "Superman's" Writer And Director James Gunn. Aired 6-7p ET

Aired July 08, 2025 - 18:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. And the major heartbreaking breaking news this hour out of Texas with a death toll from the flash flood currently stands at 110. Just a few minutes ago, Texas Governor Greg Abbott revealed that at least 161 people as of now are missing from one county, Kerr County, just one county. It's a much higher number than anyone suspected. He later clarified that the total number of missing is 173.

And amid the grief, we continue hearing questions about whether enough was done or could have been done to alert people along the Guadalupe River that this catastrophic flash flood was thundering up on them in the pre-dawn hours of July 4th.

[18:00:10]

Let's begin with CNN's Ed Lavandera. Governor Abbott spoke with reporters late this afternoon, and he said questions about the blame. He said, it's the word choice of losers, he said.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that was quite something, as here, many people that we've spoken to, you know, really trying to understand exactly what unfolded here along the Guadalupe River. We're out in front of Camp Mystic, which you see behind me, Jake.

And this is the area where those hours, those crucial hours, as this devastating flooding situation was unfolding between 1:00 and 4:00 A.M., you know, there are a lot of people that still have questions about whether or not the warning systems worked properly, if people and emergency managers were alerting places like Camp Mystic that they needed to be moving campers to higher ground, you know, those questions of accountability and what could be done in the future to prevent all of that are very much top of mind for many people here in the community.

But this is how Governor Greg Abbott, just a short time ago, addressed those kinds of questions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GREG ABBOTT (R-TX): I'm going to use your words. Who's to blame? Know this, that's the word choice of losers. Let me explain one thing about Texas, and that is Texas, every square inch of our state cares about football. You could be in Hunt, Texas, Huntsville, Texas, Houston, Texas, any sized community that care about football. High school, Friday night lights, college football, or pro.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Jake, CNN has also learned that two days before this horrific flooding, state inspectors did come here to Camp Mystic and signed off on an emergency and evacuation plan, that all of those reports seem to be in order, that there was not deficient, there were no violations that state inspectors had found. So, we've learned that bit of new information today.

This comes as, if you can see behind me here, Jake, there are families that are coming throughout the day. They've been in the process of cleaning out the cabins, a lot of the belongings sitting there, drying out. We've seen families coming and going throughout the day.

And for many people who've come here to volunteer, coming down with friends to help them and visit this traumatic site for many people. They talk about what it's been like, to be here and see this devastation up close.

TAPPER: All right. Ed Lavandera --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: Down this road and, you know, that this area was just filled with water, raging water. And this is where your friends perished?

MCLEAN COBLE, VOLUNTEER FROM DALLAS: Yes. To be here, it's insane. I mean, just the sheer size, like, I just don't feel like any of the news, the pictures, like it's just a massive amount of area of water. We were out clearing stuff with the disaster teams today and like, you know, the dogs and everything. And every corner you go around, you know, you smell something and you see like little kids' clothes and stuff just like all over the place with like names in it and everything, like little camp T-shirts, and it's just horrific.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LAVANDERA: And, Jake, just to kind of go back to the other point that the governor made earlier today, about 161 people still believe to be missing here in Kerr County alone. The Guadalupe River stretches for about two to three dozen miles through this county, depending on where you're at and where the floodwaters were the worst.

So, we're talking about a large number of people just per mile all along the -- this river that has to be searched in the days and weeks ahead. Jake?

TAPPER: Ed Lavandera in Hunt, Texas, thanks so much.

As we keep track of the rising death toll, we want to take a moment to remember that these numbers are not just numbers. They represent faces, they represent lives and stories, hopes for a future that now will never be.

19-year-old Chloe Childress was a counselor at Camp Mystic, 1 of the 30 campers and counselors at the Christian camper girls who tragically lost their lives. She had recently graduated from high school. Her family says she lived a beautiful life that saturated those around her with contagious joy, unending grace, and abiding faith.

Mystic Camper Mary Grace Baker's body was found yesterday. She was only eight. A statement from her school says her giggle was contagious. She loved art, dance, the color pink, playing in Little League.

On Saturday, CNN's Ed Lavandera spoke with Ty Badon, who was searching for his daughter, Joyce Catherine, hoping, praying for a miracle.

[18:05:02]

She had been staying in a cabin with three friends, one of whom was on the phone with his parents as the floodwaters rose.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aiden said, hey, you know, I've got to go, I got to help Ella and Reese. So, he gave the phone to Joyce Catherine. Joyce Catherine said they just got washed away. And then a few seconds later, the phone went dead, and that's all we know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: We know more now and I wish it was good news, but Joyce Catherine Badon's body was found on Monday. Her family posted on social media. We found our lovely daughter who blessed us for 21 years. We pray to be able to find her three friends soon.

Flooding in the areas surrounding the Guadalupe River in Texas happens so frequently. Many locals refer to the area as flashflood alley. And the majority of those killed in this latest catastrophe are from Kerr County, where officials for nearly a decade have acknowledged the risk of deadly floods.

CNN's Josh Campbell investigates for us now why the efforts to improve the county's early flood warning system were delayed.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MAYOR JOE HERRING Jr., KERRVILLE, TEXAS: I thank everyone in Kerrville, everyone in Kerr County wishes to God we'd had some way to warn.

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT (voice over): As authorities continue search and rescue efforts in the Texas Hill Country, questions are sharpening over whether more could have been done to avert a tragedy that has claimed more than 100 lives.

Local officials have yet to provide a clear accounting of whether and ominous warning from the National Weather Service early Friday morning was pushed out via cell phone alert to people in the flood path.

SHERIFF LARRY LEITHA, KERRY COUNTY, TEXAS: It's not that easy when you just push a button, okay? There's a lot more to that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, evacuation is a delicate balance.

CAMPBELL: Local officials say the decision to order public evacuations is a complex one.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because if you evacuate too late, you then risk putting buses, you know, or cars or vehicles or campers on roads into low water areas trying to get them out.

RICK SPINRAD, FORMER NOAA ADMINISTRATOR: The weather service did their job, the watches and warnings went out. Clearly, the heartbreak with respect to this development is that those warnings were not received.

CAMPBELL: In addition to text alerts, questions have been raised about the lack of an audible warning system to alert residents of danger.

LT. GOV. DAN PATRICK (R-TX): It's clear that one thing that could help in the future, it would seem no matter what other redundancies we have, are sirens it could blast very loudly.

CAMPBELL: A CNN investigation found multiple efforts in Kerr County to build a more substantial flood warning system. Former Kerr County Commissioner Tom Moser told CNN the area is perhaps the most flood- prone in the state of Texas, and described the county's early warning system as pretty antiquated and marginal at best. Moser said he studied how a nearby county installed sirens and suggested Kerr County do the same. But the idea was met with resistance, he said, due to budget concerns and noise.

According to a transcript of one local government meeting in 2016, another county commissioner said the thought of our beautiful Kerr County having these damn sirens going off in the middle of the night, I'm going to have to start drinking again to put up with you all.

MARK ROSE, FORMER GENERAL MANAGER, LOWER COLORADO RIVER AUTHORITY: Sirens are important, but a siren. A weather forecast is always going to run the risk of being too late.

CAMPBELL: Another area under scrutiny, the number of gauges along the Guadalupe River that can alert officials in real time to rising waters. The upper Guadalupe River Authority does have at least five gauges on the river in Kerr County, but experts say that number should be doubled or even tripled.

ROSE: How can you have a timely warning when you have no system? How can you have a timely warning when you have no data?

CAMPBELL: One major hurdle, cost. Electronic gauge systems can cost tens of millions of dollars, often far beyond what one county can afford. River management veterans say it's past time for the state of Texas to do its part to cover the price. ROSE: There's only one lesson that comes out of this to me that's worth anything, and that is that the state of Texas steps up, because if they don't, the world's watching us, and what a failure that'll be.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMPBELL (on camera): Now Jake, a short time ago, Texas Governor Greg Abbott said that a special session of the leg legislature there will convene in a couple weeks time where they will be looking into some of these issues, looking into any additional resources that the Texas Hill Country area needs. But, again, that's weeks away.

And I've been speaking with people there, family and friends in the Texas area where I grew up who say that they want answers. They want to know, for example, was an alert actually sent out to people who were then eventually impacted. Many of them actually washed away. And people say that two things can be true at the same time, that they're not looking to blame local officials, but they want answers. They want to know, especially for the next flood that might occur that the systems in place will actually occur.

Again, I go back to it, Jake, you know, the governor there said that, you know, blaming people is the language of losers. I talked to a lot of people there in Texas who's saying they're not looking to blame, they just want answers.

TAPPER: Josh Campbell, thanks so much. We're going to have much more from Texas and how the weather alert system should work in Central Texas and across the country.

[18:10:04]

Are there any takeaways from this disaster that could help in your own community? Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: We're back with more on the breaking news in our National Lead, 110 people confirmed dead, at least 173 others still missing as of right now in the Texas floods.

With us now is Texas Republican Congressman Tony Gonzales' district is southwest of where this flood disaster happened, but includes a long stretch of the Rio Grande River. Congressman, thanks for joining us.

So, at a news conference an hour ago, Texas Governor Greg Abbott said the state is focused on solutions, not pointing fingers. And he called questions about blame for the failure of emergency preparedness, quote, the word choice of losers? What's your reaction?

REP. TONY GONZALES (R-TX): Oh, I think the governor's in the thick of it right now, like many of us are.

[18:15:01]

Thankfully, the rain has led up a little bit, but many of us are just surging to the problem, trying to find the missing, trying to -- you know, we've been hit very hard by this unexpected event that occurred. I'd also say too, you know, over a hundred Americans lost their lives. And Americans deserve to find out answers to what happened and if there was a way that we could prevent future things from happening. I think it's important we do that. Flashfloods aren't unique to just Texas, so this is absolutely a federal issue.

TAPPER: They're not unique to just Texas, but this area of Texas is called flashflood alley. And there was a fatal flash flood in 1987 where ten campers died. What are you hearing from people in your district who have friends or relatives affected by what happened?

GONZALES: There's not one person that doesn't have a story. I mean, I grew up maybe 45 hour, an hour from the location of where this is at, and I remember that flood. I was seven years old when that flood washed away the bridge into town, and we were basically on our own for a couple of weeks. So, you know, we have these droughts, we have these floods. These flashfloods, they happen very quickly. They're very deadly. And it's one of these things where, once again, you know, we need to dive into it and figure out what occurred.

If there's a way that, you know, government can be helpful, whether that's federal, state, or local, we should absolutely look into it. The fact that we lost over a hundred American lives and over a hundred are still missing, something has to be done. What exactly that is, I think that we all need to determine, you know, the outcome after we've realized what went down.

TAPPER: I know several members of Congress had family and friends camping along the river. I know Congressman Pfluger had two girls, two little girls at that camp. Thankfully they're okay, at least physically. Have you heard from any of your colleagues?

GONZALES: I have. And this is the thing, Jake. I mean, you know, a lot of us, many of us, I mean, have gone to camps, to summer camps, to church camps. And, you know, thankfully, August Pfluger's girls are okay, and I know Buddy Carter had some grandchildren that were there. And so there're so many people that have a connection in and around this area. Many people in my district as well had folks visited that area before.

It's not a unique place but thankfully everything's okay. Like I said the weather's clearing up a little bit, but there's a long way to go before we're out of the woods, if you will.

TAPPER: All right. Texas Republican Congressman Tony Gonzales, thanks so much.

Texas Republican Congressman Pete Sessions today told CNN that while the National Weather Service emergency alerts did go out to cell phones in the middle of the night, that alone is not enough, given that people often have their phones on silent or they have spotty cell service, especially in that part of Texas.

With us now is Tom Fahy, he's legislative director for the National Weather Service Employees Organization. Thank you so much. There are questions being asked right now about whether National Weather Service vacancies might have played any sort of role in any lack of coordination. In fact, we know that there's a position called a warning coordination meteorologist in the San Antonio office and Senate Democratic Leader Chuck Schumer has said that that office being vacant, apparently the person who had it took the buyout in April, he wants an investigation by the inspector general of the Commerce Department, which oversees a national weather service to look into whether it played any role. What can you tell us?

TOM FAHY, LEGISLATIVE DIRECTOR, NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE EMPLOYEES ORGANIZATION: I understand the senator's concerns. The reality is the WCM position, the Warning Coordination Meteorologist, at the beginning of this year across the United States, all of the WCM, the Warning Caution Meteorologist positions, their budgets were canceled for their operational budgets.

The requirement or the responsibility of the WCM position is to interface with emergency managers, public safety officials throughout their local -- throughout the jurisdiction that the Weather Forecast Office covers. So, they go out, they do training exercises, tabletop exercises, contingency planning for disasters, as we've had experienced this past weekend.

Unfortunately, that funding was cut at the beginning of the year, and now the weather forecast -- weather -- WCMs are now staying in their offices and the emergency management community and the public safety officials are now coming to see them at the WFOs rather than the other way around.

TAPPER: The field offices. How much impact have this year's cuts had on not just the ability to coordinate warnings but the quality of the forecasts as drawn up by the National Weather Service?

[18:20:00]

FAHY: Well, the forecast in this particular case for this past weekend independent analysis by atmospheric scientists has proven that the forecast delivered by the staff at San Angelo and San Antonio was spot on. Also in addition, broadcast meteorologists in San Antonio were broadcasting on air ten hours before the storm showing the National Weather Service weather model, the HRRR model. And that was on, and they said quote, and I'll quote the broadcast meteorologist, if the super cell parks itself over here, over Kerr County, we're going to see a lot of water.

TAPPER: So, just to be clear here, the Warning Coordination Meteorologist, the position of which was vacant in at the end of April, that person is not calling up counties. He's -- I mean, the job is called Warning Coordination Meteorologist, but he's not calling people up. It's not that that person -- this disaster can't be blamed on that vacancy, am that right?

FAHY: That is absolutely correct.

TAPPER: Okay, so investigating, it's fine, but they're not going to -- no one's going to find that because there was not that person. It's not like some phone call wasn't placed.

FAHY: That's correct.

TAPPER: In your opinion, what needs to be done to improve the situation, at least as it relates to the National Weather Service?

FAHY: Well, right now, just to give you an example, if we had this particular storm happened in one of a dozen other regions around the United States, I shudder to think of what the possibilities would be. If you look at San Angelo and San Antonio between the two offices, they currently have 23 meteorologists. San Angelo's one of the best staff offices in the country. However, we have other offices across the country in several places that are not as well staffed as San Angelo and San Antonio.

And if you had a flashflood, to echo Congressman Gonzales' point of view, these flashfloods, they pop up, they happen, they come out of nowhere and they wash out a bridge and there's no time to prepare for these things. To the point of one of the officials, the local officials who was complaining, well, it wasn't in my forecast. A precipitation event that has a mass precipitation event that has so much rainfall coming down, there is no way to put it into the forecast.

There was an advisory that said there's going to be a lot of water. The meteorologist talked about that on the broadcast evening news. And the advisory sent out by the staff in the offices to the emergency managers of the public safety officials in the area that you had a warning, a flood warning, 12 hours issued in advance and subsequent warnings were issued all throughout the night.

I saw a news conference last night one of the networks, and it was a Travis County official praising the cooperation and the cooperation with the National Weather Service before, during, and after the storm. It's very wonderful to hear.

TAPPER: All right. Tom Fahy, thanks so much for your time and your expertise. We appreciate it.

In other headlines this evening, a head-turning remark from President Trump today about Vladimir Putin. A warning, the language here may be seen -- may be deemed inappropriate. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We get a lot of bullshit thrown at us by Putin, if you want to know the truth. He's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

After years of attempting to befriend the Russian president, is Trump finally realizing what the rest of the west has been pretty hip to for decades? We're going to go live to the White House next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [18:25:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: A lot of people are dying and it should end. And I don't know. We get a lot of bullshit thrown at us by Putin, if you want to know the truth. He's very nice all the time, but it turns out to be meaningless.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump ramping up his criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin today during a White House cabinet meeting. The harsh rhetoric comes after the president said the U.S. will send more weapons to Ukraine to defend itself against Russian attacks.

CNN Chief White House Correspondent and Anchor Kaitlan Collins is live at the White House for us. Kaitlan, you were at the cabinet meeting.

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Jake, we were there in the room. It was about two hours long. The reporters were there asking questions of the president. And his noticeable language there on Russia stood out as he was there speaking to reporters, talking to us about where he believes the stance, and making clear that right now he views the Russian leader as an impediment to getting a peace deal between Russia and Ukraine, something that he has sought to do since day one of his second term, but something that has obviously alluded him.

And he has very clearly gotten incredibly frustrated with the Russian leader. He was saying to us earlier that he talks nice, but he doesn't actually do anything. As we've seen continued Russian strikes in Ukraine, only getting more aggressive, it seems by the day as we've watched all this play out.

But one key part that I asked President Trump about was whether or not he is going to sign a sanctions bill that Senator Lindsey Graham and others are spearheading up on Capitol Hill if it comes to his desk. He certainly seemed more open to it, Jake, today than he ever has been as we've been talking to him about it.

But then the other question, and just keep in mind as the layout here, as you're looking at this, the defense secretary is seated right there to the president's left. And so I asked him about, hi, his announcement yesterday that he wants the United States to send more weapons to Ukraine, given last week, the White House hadn't confirmed that the Pentagon was pausing some of those shipments of munitions to Ukraine. And I asked him, who ordered that pause and whether or not he was aware of it. This is what he told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: We wanted to put defensive weapons because Putin is not -- he's not treating human beings right. He's killing too many people. So, we're sending some defensive weapons to Ukraine and I've approved that. COLLINS: So who ordered the pause last week?

TRUMP: I don't know. What didn't you tell me?

COLLINS: I think that's a question for the Pentagon.

TRUMP: Go ahead.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: He moved on there, Jake, he did not turn to the defense secretary and ask him about this. But this is something that has been talked about behind closed doors. It seemed to catch people off guard that it had been ordered, that they were pausing some of those shipments to Ukraine.

[18:30:04]

And, of course, the president came out yesterday reversing that, saying they are going to send more weapons, in fact, to Ukraine, which is in and of itself notable, Jake, because that has obviously not been the position the president has held. Typically, he has some of his strongest language for President Zelenskyy. Today was for President Putin.

TAPPER: All right. Kaitlan Collins at the White House for us, thanks so much. And Kaitlan, of course, will have much more on her show, The Source with Kaitlan Collins. It's tonight at 9:00 P.M. Eastern, only on CNN.

Also in our World Lead, someone used artificial intelligence to impersonate Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, and that someone contacted at least five people, according to a U.S. diplomatic cable. The imposter used the messaging app Signal to send A.I.-generated text and voice messages. The cable says the imposter contacted three foreign ministers, a U.S governor and a member of Congress trying to gain information or accounts.

We have some breaking news from Central Texas, the death toll up again just in the last few minutes, now at 111 lives lost after Friday's catastrophic flooding. The Kerrville City Council is holding an emergency meeting right now. We're listening in on that. Much more from Texas next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:35:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HERRING: Precious families, precious children. I wish to God there was a way we could one of them, and that's the truth.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: That's Kerrville Mayor Joe Herring Jr. just moments ago at an unplanned city council meeting, convened about the deadly flashfloods in Texas where the death toll now stands at 111. That number just updated minutes ago. We're learning from Texas Governor Greg Abbott that the total number of missing people is at least 173.

Let's bring in the panel. And, Marc, we also heard the governor say that questions about blame is, quote, the word choice of losers. What was your reaction to that?

MARC SHORT, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO V.P. MIKE PENCE: Well, Jake, I think that there's got to be enormous pressure on all the elected officials down there who are trying to protect the constituents and try to find any remaining survivors and care for loved ones who are lost. And so I imagine that temperament's not where it should be at the moment. But I imagine as well that for any official who's receiving those questions, you feel like now's not the time to be asking the blame questions. And that even though it's going to be expected, even though it's to be expected as your role as governor to feel that, it's not when you want to be receiving that question. You want to be focused on the survivors at this moment.

TAPPER: What do you think? What would your advice be to public officials? Because the disaster happened Friday, today's Tuesday. In a natural news cycle. This is about when these questions start getting asked, whatever the disaster is, wildfires in California, a school shooting in any city. I mean, people start asking what could have been done to prevent this.

ASHLEY ALLISON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: And I think people are allowed to ask those questions, it has to be a both end for elected officials. Your boss is the voters. It's the people who are suffering. It's obviously a tragedy and that should be the first thing, is making sure that we find any survivors that may still be living and help families mourn and grieve. But when you're an elected official, you have to answer questions. And if something more could have been done, then you need to acknowledge that. And so you can't be defensive.

You're elected -- your constituents are allowed to ask questions. The media is allowed to ask questions, not just as a gotcha blame game, but there are -- floods are always going to happen. And if there's something that another community can learn from questions that you're being asked, that's the responsibility of a public official, I think.

TAPPER: Let's turn to a slightly lighter topic. I want to turn to President Trump's eventful cabinet meeting. Today, as you know, for Trump's former first buddy, Elon Musk, said that he plans to start a third party. Our own Kaitlan Collins asked President Trump if he was worried about any impact, this third party, should it get off the ground, could have. Here's what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think it'll help us. It'll probably help. Third parties have always been good for me. I don't know about Republicans, but for me. Is that true?

(END VIDEO CLIP) SHORT: Well, Donald Trump ran as a third party candidate in 2000 on the Reform party.

TAPPER: Oh, that's old school. He didn't really -- he didn't actually pull the trigger.

ALLISON: Right.

SHORT: Well, there was an announcement. But having said that, look, I don't know how much it helps Republicans. I'm not so sure it's going to get off the ground, Jake. I think there's a lot of challenges to it. There's no doubt that right now for a lot of Americans, the appeal of a third party is attractive. But once you have actual candidates and not just a no name party, it becomes different.

Even though I question the electoral success of this, I do think that Musk can serve a very valuable role if he actually uses this to focus on $36 trillion in national debt, because neither party has been effective at actually solving that. And if there was a voice out there that even if you're not going to elect candidates but was focused on that issue, hopefully, it would force Republicans and Democrats to begin addressing it.

ALLISON: Look, I think the third party thing is different for presidential elections and midterms. But some would argue that one of the reasons why Donald Trump was successful is because of a third party candidate named RFK who dropped out of the race, which many thought would be problematic for the Democrats in 2024.

And it ended up being because he could have been a throw up candidate that if he went on to the Democratic side, you could have got a lot of folks that supported him to support Kamala Harris, but he ended up going for Trump. And a lot of those RFK voters were actually Democratic voters in 2020.

SHORT: I think it's wishful thinking to think Harris or Biden would've won without RFK.

ALLISON: No. It's not that they would've won, but definitely RFK had a segment of voters that he ended up getting to Donald Trump.

TAPPER: Can I talk about this third party for one second, and the idea that they're a third party focused on reducing this obscene national debt would be attractive? The way to reduce the national debt is to either cut spending or raise taxes or both. There's no other magic elixir.

And cutting spending, you know, this bill, this big, beautiful bill cut spending and there might be Republican -- there might be backlash to that because that spending cuts is -- it could hurt people. I mean, we've heard Josh Hawley talk about that. In fact, let me just run a little clip from Senator Josh Hawley, who said he would vote against it or seemed to suggest he might vote against it because of the Medicaid cuts, but ended up voting for it.

[18:40:06] Here he is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): Missouri's actually going to see an increase of $1 billion for rural hospitals from now to the end of the decade.

And we will see no benefit cuts whatsoever begin because of compromise language we were able to win and get put into the bill. So, there's a lot of work to do on this. I think it's a mistake to cut Medicaid. I've always said that I continue to believe it. We have prevented it from happening in Missouri.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Do you think that the Medicaid cuts could end up hurting Republicans in the midterms?

SHORT: I think that, Jake, when you have one party in power, typically, the other party comes back and the midterm cycle, so there'll be a lot of questions and not it was because of the bill. I think the reality is Republicans should be explaining that we're basically just having work requirements, which was a priority of the Clinton administration and the Obama administration.

TAPPER: That's not what Josh Hawley says.

SHORT: Well, you know, I look, I think Josh Hawley is wrong on this. But having said that, you play that clip, which I think is a great clip to show because Democrats are saying how much it's going to hurt the bill, at that very same press conference with Democrat Congressman Cori Bush celebrating the same bill.

So, for Democrats who say this is going to be critically damaging, Democrats are there with Josh Hawley at the same press conference about it.

ALLISON: I don't think Cori Bush won the election.

SHORT: She was.

ALLISON: I don't think she won her election.

TAPPER: Yes. I don't think she -- she's no longer a member of Congress.

SHORT: Fair enough.

TAPPER: But she was interestingly enough at that event. I don't know what horseshoe theory was going on there.

ALLISON: Yes. Sometimes you meet on the other side. I think here's the thing, Democrats should talk about what's in this bill. It's not just that they are cuts to Medicaid, it's who is benefiting from this bill and this is a billionaire's bailout. The tax cuts for the wealthiest of the wealthiest and the in the middle class and the poorest are not benefiting from this bill. And that is something that could be sold. And this bill is not popular and it will hurt Republicans.

SHORT: Working class families had a $2,100 tax increase without passage of this bill.

ALLISON: Yes, working class families might have $2,100 and -- but billionaires, when you actually look at the proportion of billionaires and the bailouts that they get, it's not comparable.

TAPPER: All right. Ashley Allison, Marc Short, thanks to both of you. I appreciate it.

Sean Diddy Combs was back in a federal courtroom today in New York City. What a judge said about his future time in prison after the guilty verdict against him last week on two lesser criminal counts. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:45:58]

TAPPER: Just in to our law and justice lead, a judge has now set the sentencing date for Sean "Diddy" Combs. It will be October 3rd. Combs last week was found guilty on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. He was acquitted of the more serious charges of racketeering conspiracy and sex trafficking, but the judge denied his request for bail, citing the defense's own admission that combs has shown violent behavior.

In our national lead, a brand new photo of Minnesota State Senator John Hoffman looking upbeat as he's released from the ICU. Hoffman will move into a rehabilitation facility for his next steps, with a family spokesperson telling CNN he still has a long recovery ahead. Hoffman was shot nine times in the politically motivated attack that also left his wife injured and claimed the lives of his fellow Minnesota lawmaker, Melissa Hortman and her husband last month.

In our politics lead now, as the Supreme Court wraps up its term, a former senator, prosecutor and U.S. ambassador reflects on a Supreme Court case that shaped her life.

Here's my recent interview with ambassador and former senator, Carol Moseley Braun.

(BEGIN VDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And joining us now is former U.S. ambassador to New Zealand under President Clinton, Carol Moseley Braun. She was also the first Black woman to ever serve in the United States Senate. She was elected in 1992. She also ran for president as a Democrat in 2004.

Her new book, it's called "Trailblazer: Perseverance in Life and Politics", and it is out now.

Madam Ambassador, thank you so much for being here. So there's a debate going on in your party, the Democratic Party, and to a lesser extent in the Republican Party about the advancing age of so many members of Congress. There are more members of Congress in their -- in their 70s and older than ever before. We all know what we went through with President Biden last year and other debates along those lines.

Now, you write about flunking. You say you flunked retirement --

CAROL MOSELEY BRAUN (D), FORMER U.S. SENATOR, ILLINOIS: Retirement. Yes.

TAPPER: -- in your book, and you obviously are completely still with it, et cetera. What do you make of the younger politicians calling for older politicians to retire?

MOSELEY BRAUN: And they've been doing that forever.

TAPPER: Oh, yeah?

MOSELEY BRAUN: You know, that's not a new phenomenon. Seriously, every -- every generation, what's that line? Every generation throws a hero up the pop charts. They all want you to go away so they can have opportunity for advancement.

But the fact of the matter is, the boomers are not going to go away. They're going to continue to serve and not just in office as long as they have something to contribute, they will, and they're not going anywhere. And so, the calls are just kind of silly at this point.

TAPPER: You write about the 1954 Supreme Court ruling, Brown versus Board of Education in your book. You were one of the first children in Chicago to learn in an integrated classroom. My dad was also in an integrated classroom in Chicago.

You say, quote, on multiple occasions, rocks were thrown through the window of my classroom, and the teacher would yell for us to duck and cover under our desks. How did that experience influence you?

MOSELEY BRAUN: Well, I got to tell you, it was it was an introduction to me. I had no idea that people in the north would be that kind of nasty around issues of race and color, but they were. And I expected it in the South. I didn't expect it in the North, but it did. It happened.

And so -- and my grammar school was integrated, at least for a minute. It was. And so, I was too young, really, to understand the full gravity of that moment and of all the issues that were going on.

But my father, because my mother, my father was very involved with my mother was not. And so, you know, I was trying to learn what was actually going on. I didn't fully understand at that point.

TAPPER: You worked in the U.S. attorney's office after earning your law degree. What was your first reaction when the U.S. Supreme Court curbed the ability of district court judges to issue nationwide injunctions? This just happened a few days ago, thereby expanding the power of the executive branch.

[18:50:01] What was your reaction to that?

MOSELEY BRAUN: I was actually a little surprised, to be honest. The fact is that -- that seesaw continues throughout history.

I mean, we, our framers of the Constitution came with a brilliant plan that separated the powers between the executive, the legislature and judicial branches. And it was brilliant. And it worked fine. But every generation recreates and changes it a little bit, tweaks it somewhere, and that's what's going on with us now.

TAPPER: Let me just ask you a question. Now that you've written a memoir, how do you want history to remember you? Obviously, I have my own memory of you because I remember that March night in 1992 when you were such a trailblazer and so inspiring to so many young people and so many women.

How do you want people to remember you?

MOSELEY BRAUN: That she did the best job she could with what she had. I'm a hard worker. I really am a workhorse, more than a show horse. And I hope people will remember that, you know, not so much the show horse, part of it, of the symbol and all that, but rather somebody who was trying to do a job.

TAPPER: The former Cook County preserver of deeds -- is that -- is that --

MOSELEY BRAUN: The recorder of deeds.

TAPPER: The recorder of deeds, U.S. senator, U.S. ambassador, presidential candidate Carol Moseley Braun, thank you so much for being here. Really appreciate it.

MOSELEY BRAUN: Jake, thank you so much for having me.

TAPPER: Again, the book is trailblazer and it's out now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: We're just days out from the next big summer blockbuster movie. Hear from the director of "Superman" on finding who he calls the biggest star in the world. Plus, his decision to cut a notable scene from the film.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[18:55:50]

TAPPER: In our pop culture lead, it's a new take on the classic superhero film "Superman", lands in theaters this Friday.

Forty-seven years ago, Christopher Reeve first brought the Man of Steel to the big screen in 1978. CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister spoke to the film's writer and director, James Gunn.

We should note that CNN and Warner Brothers Pictures are both owned by Warner Brothers Discovery.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID CORENSWET AS SUPERMAN: Eyes up here. F

ELIZABETH WAGMEISTER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: Just as Superman has the weight of the world on his shoulders --

JAMES GUNN, WRITER AND DIRECTOR, "SUPERMAN": My wife, who's sitting over there, tries to calm me down.

WAGMEISTER: -- James Gunn has the weight of a movie studio on his. Not only does he write and direct Superman, but he's the CEO of the new DC studios.

This is its first film.

GUNN: I'll try to be as sober as I possibly can. I really try to live with a stoic philosophy about these things.

WAGMEISTER: As an early comic book fan, Gunn was born for this role.

GUNN: I started reading comics when I was very young. I learned to read on comic books and started reading them at three. Looking at the pictures, starting to read it, four and five.

WAGMEISTER: Gunn, who directed blockbusters like "Guardians of the Galaxy" calls Superman the hardest movie he's ever made.

GUNN: We had to shoot in extreme cold. We had to shoot in extreme heat.

WAGMEISTER: To say nothing of casting the right Superman.

CORENSWET: What is this?

WAGMEISTER: David Corenswet like Christopher Reeve in 1978, is not a household name. But Gunn's instincts made Chris Pratt a superstar, and he thinks he's about to strike again.

GUNN: Yes, I have a bit of an ego about it. I think I'm really good at finding people who become huge stars. I think David Corenswet is the biggest movie star in the world, and people don't know it yet. And that's what I said that about Chris Pratt early on, too.

CORENSWET: People were going to die.

GUNN: There are very, very few people that have the acting chops, the comedy chops, and happen to be extraordinarily handsome at the same time.

CORENSWET: I wear my trunks on the outside of my pants, like, liberating.

WAGMEISTER: The film reflects today's world, with TV and social media used to sow doubt and fear about Superman's intentions, all for the benefit of political and corporate interest.

GUNN: And the story was, what if Superman really existed in a world that was somewhat like ours?

WAGMEISTER: Lex Luthor is the selfish corporate villain, but Gunn insists he's not a stand in for anyone in real life.

GUNN: I did want him to have some of this wall street machismo, you know, corporations have become so incredibly powerful. They're almost as powerful as governments are now, maybe more powerful than governments.

CORENSWET: Oh. Oh! Stop it! Stop!

WAGMEISTER: Still, this Superman is lighter and arguably funnier than those of the recent past.

CHARACTER: We feed the canine but he is unruly.

WAGMEISTER: And with the cute dog and a cape inspired by Gunn's own chaotic canine, how can you miss?

PRODUCER: Is that your baby Yoda?

GUNN: I don't know about that, but people definitely like Krypto a lot. I'll tell you that.

CORENSWET: Sit, sit. Stay.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WAGMEISTER: All right, now, Jake, you may know that one of my favorite things to do is to have celebrities roast you. Don't be mad at me. It's not my fault that you have so many famous friends, Jake.

So, you actually had a part in the "Superman" movie? It turns out you hit the cutting room floor.

TAPPER: I did.

WAGMEISTER: And well, James Gunn wants to apologize for that. Take a quick look, Jake.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUNN: Jake, please have mercy on me. Don't attack me in your show. Don't go off on me. I had to cut you because in -- all honesty, I want to -- I want to give you and say it's because you were terrible. But it's not because you were terrible.

It's because your dialogue just wasn't necessary for the film, and so I cut it out. You're in the background of many shots. So, the CNN fans can rejoice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: No hard feelings. I can't wait to see it. I'm a huge fan of Gunn, and I'm a DC guy myself.

Elizabeth Wagmeister, thanks so much for that and thanks for the roast, per usual, really appreciate it.

A big lead exclusive is coming up tomorrow. I'm going to have the first national interview with Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina after bucking President Trump on the One Big, Beautiful Bill Act last week and announcing he's not going to run for reelection. Look for that exclusive tomorrow on THE LEAD.

"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts right now. I'll see you tomorrow.