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The Lead with Jake Tapper
At Least 119 Dead, Estimated 160 Missing in Catastrophic Texas Flooding; Trump Admin Reiterates Call to Eliminate and Overhaul FEMA; GOP Sen. Thom Tillis (R-NC) in First Interview Since Voting Against Trump's Bill and Announcing He Won't Run for Reelection. Former FBI Director James Comey & Former CIA Director John Brennan Under Investigation By Trump DOJ; Tornado Warning For Parts Of DC Area Until 7PM ET. Aired 6-7p ET
Aired July 09, 2025 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to the Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.
This hour, that desperate search for those missing in the Texas floods, what CNN learned today about officials coordinating the emergency response and who was not on a key call. We're going to go live to the disaster zone.
Plus, more of my exclusive interview with Republican Senator Thom Tillis in North Carolina, his very first since announcing he will not run for reelection. And after voting against President Trump's one big, beautiful bill act because of the Medicaid cuts, this hour, does Senator Tillis regret voting to confirm some members of Trump's cabinet?
[18:00:04]
The Lead tonight, the death toll from the catastrophic floods in Texas is now nearly 120. An estimated 160 people meanwhile are known to be missing. This as CNN affiliate KSAT reports in the early hours on July 4th, a local firefighter requested an emergency alert be sent to warn the public about the raging floodwaters sweeping through the Texas Hill country, but it reportedly took Kerr County officials nearly six hours to send that alert. Reporters pressed the Kerr County sheriff today about the passing hours.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF LARRY LEITHA, KERRY COUNTY: I believe those questions need to be answered to the family of the missed loved ones, to the public, you know, to the people that put me in this office, those need to be, and I want that answer.
We're not running, we're not going to hide for anything that's going to be checked into at a later time.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: CNN's Shimon Prokupecz was at that news conference in Kerrville, Texas. Shimon what else did officials have to say? SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN SENIOR CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes. So, one of the key questions here, Jake, is what did officials know leading up to this weather situation? Who was briefing? Who was the Emergency Operation Center? Was the person who runs emergency operations for the county, was he being briefed? Was he briefing any officials? And there are a lot of questions about that, including a phone call that supposedly took place on July 3rd with state officials that was offered to both the mayor and the county judge.
And when I asked the mayor if he was on that call today, here's what he told me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PROKUPECZ: The lieutenant governor said that on July 3rd that the county judges and city mayors were invited on a daily call Thursday to discuss weather forecasts were you on that call. Were you invited to that call? Do you know if the county judge was also on that call?
MAYOR JOE HERRING JR., KERRVILLE, TEXAS: I can't speak to for the county judge. That would be hearsay. And I'm not going to contradict the information you have. But I will tell you personally, I did not receive a telephone call.
PROKUPECZ: You weren't invited to the call?
HERRING: I did not receive a telephone.
PROKUPECZ: And you were never given any information about what assets were brought into the area?
HERRING: So, I wasn't invited to call. I'm not trying to deflect.
PROKUPECZ: No, I understand. Do you know why that, why? Any idea how that was, why that would happen?
HERRING: Maybe I'm not a local mayor. I can't tell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PROKUPECZ: And that's the thing, Jake, it's not entirely clear, even if being on that call would've made a difference in the end, but certainly there's a lot of questions that maybe some information was not getting to some of the leaders of this county and of this city.
And, you know, after that press conference, Jake, I wanted to go out and talk to some people here in the areas to see how they're feeling about things and whether they feel there's been any failure. And right now, they are very supportive here of the government, of city officials.
You know, folks who live along this river. Jake, this was an R.V. park. I just want to quickly show you this. On July 4th, on July 3rd, this entire area here was filled with R.V.s, people out. It was a beautiful day. They were out eating, they were out enjoying the river. And then all of a sudden, in the middle of the night, on July 4th, everything changed.
And I got a chance to speak to the owner of this R.V. park. She owns Howdy Bar. The R.V. park is Blue Oak. It's called Blue Oak. And it's just incredible how strong she is and how supportive she is of the rescue efforts that morning. She herself was out here. She called the sheriff's office at one point, at 2:00 in the morning, she told me, asking what should she do. Should she be concerned about the flooding? And they told her at that time there was nothing to be concerned about. And then an hour later, she said everything changed. And she saw trailers going through the river and she could see people inside the trailer banging on the windows.
But the thing is this community is coming together. They believe that they will get the support, but they need more. They need more help from the government. They want to know how they're going to rebuild and they need the resources. That is the top thing right now. They need help and they need resources to rebuild. Jake?
TAPPER: All right. Shimon Prokupecz in Ingram, Texas, thanks so much for that reporting.
My next guest has more than 30 years experience in public safety and disaster response. Joe Hernandez is the fire commissioner in Pine Island, Florida. Joe, thanks for joining us.
So, an estimated 160 people are known to be missing in Texas right now. That's just the known number. Take a listen to this Kerrville police sergeant on why it's been difficult to get an exact number.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SGT. JONATHAN LAMB, KERRVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT: We do have a lot of people who came here in campers R.V.s and camped along the river. And, you know, if nobody reports them missing, if nobody is looking for them, we may not know that they're missing. Getting a handle on exactly how many people we're looking for has been tough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[18:05:00]
TAPPER: He also said, no one has been found alive in Kerr County since Friday. How do you search for people when you don't know how many people are actually missing or where they were, et cetera?
JOE HERNANDEZ, FIRE COMMISSIONER, MATLACHA/PINE ISLAND FIRE CONTROL DISTRICT: You begin searching for people no matter what the numbers are. The numbers always continue to increase as they did with the Surfside building collapse. Numbers start small. They end up being in greater amounts, but it doesn't usually affect any of the responders and, of course, any of the volunteers that are there. They're looking under every piece of material that they can include, and they're not worried so much about the numbers. They like to be told at the end of how many they were able to save.
TAPPER: There are giant mounds of debris filled with mangled trees, wrecked cars, homes, a lot of it clogs near bridges along the Guadalupe River. What kind of technology is best to get through that kind of debris and are certain devices used when searching for survivors versus those who have died?
HERNANDENZ: Absolutely. As the thermal imaging cameras being used by the helicopters and the airplanes being flown by the Coast Guard and the National Guard pick up the heat signatures from response, survivors that may be still alive in that pile. There's also what's called the layering of that material, just like it would be for a building, as it was done in North Carolina after Hurricane Helene, where they begin to delayer the areas.
Search cameras that were used in rubble in concrete are also used in that material as well, that they're able to penetrate. Search dogs and canines have been brought in along with recovery canines, but mostly the search canines are able to alert, the responders able to signify a camera to try and get either a view and/or a sound from that person.
And new technology that has come out has now hit Texas through a partnership with VDA Safe (ph), a brand new handheld, only kind in the world, a sonar underwater device. It's basically able to do 8,000 square meters in under five minutes. As we saw the responders many times during the CNN reviews of shuffling their feet, trying to locate possible victims under the water and not put their heads in the water. We're looking for different devices and technology that is able to break through those barriers and able to either do a search and or a recovery to bring closure.
TAPPER: All right, fascinating stuff. Joe Hernandez, thanks so much.
And today, Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem reiterated calls to overhaul FEMA.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRISTI NOEM, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It has been slow to respond at the federal level. It's even been slower to get the resources to Americans in Crisis, and that is why this entire agency needs to be eliminated as it exists today and remade into a responsive agency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Let's bring in Democratic Congressman Jared Moskowitz of Florida. Congressman, good to see you.
The Trump administration essentially wants to shift more responsibility for disaster response and preparedness to the states. How do you see that working? Does Florida have the capability to do that without relying upon FEMA?
REP. JARED MOSKOWITZ (D-FL): Thanks, Jake. Good to be with you. I mean, just listening to the secretary who's been saying this since she took office now for the last, you know, seven months, she was wrong when she's first started it, and she's wrong now. And what we're finding, I think, Jake, is that she has not reformed the agency. She has destroyed the agency. She talks about the agency being too slow. She's made it worse. She's made it less efficient, so much for Doge, for efficiency.
She's made this agency less responsive. They've gotten rid of 30 percent of the workforce. Everything over a hundred thousand has to go to her personal sign off. Does that sound efficient?
And so, you know, we are going to get into hurricane season and, unfortunately, we're not going to find out how much she broke. The agency has an administrator with no disaster experience, until we get a disaster that a state can't handle, God forbid, let's hope it doesn't happen. Florida and Texas have better emergency management departments because they've invested the money, because those state budgets have more money and they've had more disasters. I'm really worried about Mississippi, Alabama, Louisiana. Those states go bankrupt without FEMA.
So, we're going to have to see how much Kristi Noem took an agency that needed reform, and instead she dropped the bomb on the agency and destroyed it.
TAPPER: And just for viewers at home who don't know, Congressman Moskowitz was head of the Florida Emergency Management Department under Republican Governor Ron DeSantis. So, he has some personal experience running disaster preparedness.
Congressman, during his Senate -- pardon me. During a Senate confirmation hearing today, President Trump's nominated to lead NOAA, the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association or Agency, rather, Neil Jacobs said that he will work to improve weather warning systems.
[18:10:11]
But he also said he supports President Trump's budget proposal, a budget proposal that critics say would cut NOAA's weather and climate research programs, which are meant to improve weather detection as the climate continues to warm. What's your reaction to this nominee and to his support for the president's budget proposal for NOAA?
MOSKOWITZ: Well, I wouldn't expect a person trying to get a job right now to go off-script from what the administration is proposing. But I hate to bring it up, but this is literally chapter and verse right out of Project 2025. You can literally find it in the document where they talked about defunding the agency. They talked about getting rid of the people so that they break it to a point to where they can privatize it. It's all there. And that's what they're doing.
Now, they're reversing course a little bit, right? They're trying to hire 125 new people because they realize DOGE broke it to a point where it can't function. Look, a lot of these agencies need new technology, Jake, right, whether it's the FAA or the National Weather Service or FEMA, they need new technology. We haven't invested in technology. Why? Because that costs money. You can't cut your way to technology. That's why the efficiency piece was never done by DOGE. That's where they needed to invest in technology.
The way you get around investing in technology is you have people covering that. Well, when they got rid of the people, they realized everything was breaking.
And so, you know, the National Weather Service is going to need help, so is FEMA, and to get us through this hurricane season. This caught them by surprise. This horrific disaster, losing 120 people, losing 36 kids, you know, over a hundred people still missing, this is a major disaster.
And we are going to need an after-action review to determine what failed, what didn't work, what communication between the locals and the state and the feds, what usually would've happened that maybe didn't happen because of these cuts at both FEMA and the National Weather Service. There are massive gaps in the timeline between when these notices went out and to when evacuations started at the county, and evacuations start at the local level. They don't start at the state level. That's how it works in Florida. That's how it works in other states.
TAPPER: Yes, Democratic --
MOSKOWITZ: And so --
TAPPER: Go ahead, final thought.
MOSKOWITZ: No. So, I was going to say is, look, there's -- right now it's tough to say A equals B, but cuts to FEMA, cuts to National Weather Service did not help anybody in Texas.
TAPPER: Yes. Democratic Congressman Jared Moskowitz from Florida, thanks as always, good to have you.
Moments ago we heard Republican Senator Thom Tillis say what he makes of politicians or folks who try to flex on him. Coming up, we're going to hear from Senator Tillis about what he thinks of Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. His opinion has evolved since he somewhat reluctantly voted to confirm Hegseth to be secretary of defense.
Plus, Tillis talks about the January 6th riots, his plan of action more than four years after the attacks. Stay with us
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:15:00]
TAPPER: In our Politics Lead, more criticism today for controversial Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth. Five sources telling CNN that Secretary Hegseth did not inform the White House before authorizing to pause shipping weapons to Ukraine last week. This set off something of a scramble inside the administration to understand what happened and why, and to explain it to Congress and Ukraine.
In our exclusive interview with Republican Senator Thom Tillis of North Carolina earlier today, Senator Tillis told us how he would vote if the Senate held a confirmation do-over on the secretary of defense.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) TAPPER: You mentioned earlier that you thought President Trump was getting bad advice, not just about this bill, but also maybe about some of his nominees. You ultimately voted for both RFK Jr. for HHS secretary and Pete Hegseth for defense secretary, even though you were -- your vote was not guaranteed until the end there. Do you regret those votes now that you've seen them in office?
SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): Well, you know, first I need to set the record straight on Hegseth. I had already informed my conference that I was going to defer to the Senate Armed Services vote. If he got a unanimous vote out of Senate Armed Services, then I was going to defer to them. I was on that committee for several Congresses.
But then there was that allegation that came out on that Sunday. It was net new information. I complete my due diligence. And so I interviewed a number of people. I was called over to the White House on the Thursday night asking me to vote for him. I said, I may. The vote's not until tomorrow. I've still got to complete my due diligence. And, quite honestly, there were conversations that I had on Friday that made me put this allegation in the same category as the other ones that I'd worked on before he was confirmed.
TAPPER: So, this had to do with the abusive tactics towards women or towards?
TILLIS: That's right. But what it came down to is, honestly, there was never of an example of an eyewitness corroborated account. And I had to be fair to Pete Hegseth on that issue.
Now, with the passing of time, I think it's clear he is out of his depth as a manager of a large complex organization.
TAPPER: Yes. What was your reaction to the Signal gate situation?
TILLIS: Well that's just one. I mean, this whole idea of having a pause in Ukraine defensive arms, that's just amateurish. I mean, that's from somebody who doesn't understand large organization dynamics. So, you know, I don't regret the decision I made back then based on the facts as I knew them today then, but today I am beginning to wonder if maybe Armed Services was a little bit generous with respect to their assessment of his capabilities as a manager of the world's largest, most complex and arguably consequential organization.
TAPPER: So, you don't regret it, but if you had to do it again today, you probably wouldn't vote yes?
TILLIS: I think based on the information I have today. If all I had was the information on the day of the vote, I'd certainly vote for him again. But now I have the information of him being a manager and I don't think that as probationary period's been very positive.
[18:20:03]
TAPPER: What about RFK Jr.? Because he's obviously gone back on a lot of the promises he made to your colleague, Senator and Dr. Cassidy, about vaccines. TILLIS: I think that that will be something that we'll take up. I defer a lot to Bill Cassidy on that. He's a brilliant man. And I was -- I consulted with Bill. Quite honestly, if the main reason I supported Kennedy was because Bill Cassidy thought that we should see how it plays out.
And one thing I will say throughout this whole process is I'm thoroughly impressed with Mehmet Oz. I believe that he's quite capable and running a very important part in CMS.
TAPPER: You also aroused the president's ire when you made it clear that you were not going to support Ed Martin to be a U.S. attorney for Washington, D.C. The president took the note and just made him the pardon attorney at the Justice Department. What have you thought about how he's been there?
TILLIS: I couldn't care less about what he's doing in the Justice Department. What I care about was having helm the key prosecutor in the district where he excused what happened to these police officers on January the 6th. That was it was just disqualifying. I mean the, he literally was excusing some of the behavior of people who entered the building.
I still call those people who got pardoned by the president thugs. There are about 200 or 300 people that should be behind bars now for what they did on January the 6th. I do agree with Martin that there were people that, in the heat of the moment, they got more prosecution and more devastating consequences than they probably deserved.
But at the end of the day, folks, we got to treat you like an adult or a child. You decide which one you want to be. You walk into a beaten and battered Capitol and you see police officers being wrestled to the ground and you don't think you're in a bad situation, you should probably think twice.
So, there should have been a consequence for them, maybe overprosecution, but where Martin missed it with me is saying that there was a -- that all of them had been overprosecuted and then all of them had a reasonable basis for their frustration.
TAPPER: What do you say --
TILLIS: Absolutely no.
TAPPER: What do you say to somebody who says that you seem to let President Trump off the hook for a lot of these things? Because Trump is after all the one that pardoned all those people that you're talking about. And you're the first Republican I've seen make the connection between the thin blue line, make the connection between back the blue and what happened January 6th. A lot of Republicans don't want to talk about that.
TILLIS: I went to the Senate. I walked around this building for a week telling every one of these Capitol police officers who are professionals, keeping their emotions clear. I said, what the president did sucked and I want you to know it. And then I got to thinking, you know, I probably should elevate that by going to the floor and saying the same thing, and I did that. And I think I have a number of members here who disagreed with the pardons who didn't. So, this is -- it's something that I went and feel very strongly about.
TAPPER: Yes.
TILLIS: I mean, I was here, I was the last member out of the chamber on January 6th. I saw everything unfold. And I'm still angry about it and I have no tolerance for anyone.
The president should know if there is anyone coming up for a nomination through any committee of my jurisdiction that excused January the 6th, that they're not going to get confirmed in my remaining tenure in the U.S. Senate.
TAPPER: I want to ask you about the flooding because obviously Texas is dealing with that today. Last year, flooding from Helene, Hurricane Helene, caused at least 108 storm related deaths.
TILLIS: In North Carolina alone, over 250.
TAPPER: Yes, in North Carolina alone, in many areas, as you know, are still struggling to recover. This year the Trump administration has made cuts, wants to get rid of FEMA, has done job freezes when it comes to the National Weather Service, the National Oceanic Atmospheric Association, et cetera. Can states manage these disasters effectively without the help that has traditionally come from the federal government?
TILLIS: Last night I was talking with two linemen that we recognized for their heroic work trying to get power reestablished to the veterans hospital out in Western North Carolina. And I was also talking with two disaster response coordinators who were a part of that. And I said, can you all imagine if all of a sudden we've got a ho a storm forming off of Africa coming this way, maybe it's moving over, it's a Category 1, that the southeastern states are going to have to get together and do paper, scissors, rock to see who's going to manage this regional impact?
I mean, the last time I checked storms are have a really bad habit of crossing state and county jurisdictions.
TAPPER: They don't care with Congressional district. It is.
TILLIS: To me, anybody that's advising the president we should get rid of FEMA has clearly had no experience with disaster response. We have a lot of experience with disaster response in the southeast. We've got a number of recommendations to modernize FEMA to shift more responsibility down, but the federal government has to be the convening authority. I mean, FEMA was actually -- its birth was out of a disastrous response in the past.
[18:25:02]
But if we're talking about changing the execution, that's fine, but the federal government has to play a role. There are no major storms that can -- that you could possibly have a coordinated, solid response to if it's a pickup game by states.
TAPPER: Right.
TILLIS: And so it's just absurd it. Whoever recommended that clearly is out of their depth on disaster response.
TAPPER: President Trump went after you while you guys were fighting about that. He said, Thom Tillis has hurt the great people of North Carolina, even on the catastrophic flooding. Nothing was done to help until I took office. Then a miracle took place. Tillis is a talker and a complainer, not a doer.
TILLIS: Well, President, I get to Western North Carolina and see if his view of the work that I've done there fits with the view of Western North Carolinians. I think that they're pretty happy with how much I'd leaned into it, even advising the Trump campaign to probably not land in Asheville during the campaign when we were trying to use the airport to evac victims. So, I will agree to disagree on that one.
TAPPER: What is the future of the Republican Party? And to a lesser extent, I'm interested in your take on the Democratic Party. Because there are a lot of people out there who think that both parties right now are completely adrift. One of them happens to be in power. So, it seems less so because they are in charge. But are you worried about the Republican Party?
TILLIS: I am. I think the good news is the Democratic Party is going -- so they're -- I'm glad that they're yielding to their instincts because they're bad and they're going far left. I mean, you've got basically a socialist Democrat, I think that's code for almost communists when you're talking about taking over means of production, running for New York mayor.
TAPPER: Not just running, he's the Democratic nominee.
TILLIS: So, I think our hope, I think that the Republicans can seize this moment to be the practical party, to be the party that's solidly conservative while these litmus tests for how liberal you are to get out of a Democratic primary continue. If the Republicans do that, we get -- what I'm worried about is a leader on the Democratic side saying this stuff is killing us. If they do that and they become the party that's more likely looking like left of center, that becomes a real problem for swing states.
But the good news is right now the inmates are running their asylum and this gives us an opportunity to really come together.
TAPPER: What does the Republican Party need to do to get its message right? Less fealty to one man? What are you --
TILLIS: Yes, I have fealty ideals. I don't have fealty to any one man, and I do believe that they're -- we're doing the president a disservice. The president, President Trump, nor any president, could possibly be expected to have a detailed understanding of all the things that they have to deal with. What the president needs to do is start really looking at the outcome of some of these policy decisions and ask himself, is he really getting the best professional advice? That's what I've been trying to provide them for the last few years, and that's what I'm going to continue to provide them. And it's worth what he paid for it.
But as somebody who's been in elected office for 20 years at the leadership level in the statehouse and doing all I can up here, I hope that he starts listening to more of us and fewer of those people who pretend like they're the president when he's out of the room over in the White House.
TAPPER: Who are you talking about?
TILLIS: There will be plenty of time for me to cover that later.
TAPPER: Not just not later in this interview?
TILLIS: Right.
TAPPER: There was a 2013 profile of you in Charlotte Magazine and it talked about your dad who was a boat draftsman.
TILLIS: Yes.
TAPPER: And one job brought your family to Louisiana.
TILLIS: New Orleans, where we go.
TAPPER: And the profile says that's where your work ethic went into overdrive. You started looking for creative ways to earn money. You walked --
TILLIS: Walking cats.
TAPPER: You walked cats in exchange for cash or biscuits.
TILLIS: It's true.
TAPPER: So, that's the first chapter.
TILLIS: It was Ms. Wright (ph). To me, it's all about income. And, I mean, I was eight years old at that time and I had walking around money. As a matter of fact, I remember -- I don't know. Some of that money that I raised, I also went to a 7/11, bought an engagement ring for a girlfriend I had while I was nine years old.
TAPPER: So, if that's your first chapter walking cats for biscuits, what's the next chapter going to be for you after you leave? I know we get another year and a half of you here in D.C., but what's after that?
TILLIS: You know, I think probably I love -- I still love technology. I spent my entire career in technology and then enterprise transformation as a partner at P.W. and at Pricewaterhouse, PricewaterhouseCoopers and I.B. Elman (ph). I love execution. Honestly, I finally got my four year degree, but I was admitted to the partnership at Pricewaterhouse a year before I got it, and that was mainly because I'm fairly good at execution. I want to go back and do some of that. I like getting my hands dirty. I'd love to do turnaround work for problem businesses or startups.
[18:30:02]
TAPPER: In terms of the next year-and-a-half, how are you going to turn around this institution here? How are you going to make it more responsive to the American people?
TILLIS: I'm going to keep on working and trying to make it very clear to the president. I've never done anything and I thought knowingly would undercut him. Everything I've ever done has been to improve the outcome. And so I'm going to work on that. And I'm going to hold some of these people accountable who I think are shielding him do not understand the legislative process, certainly do not understand execution, and they're the biggest risk to his legacy.
And if we don't get it right, as I told the president, if we don't get this right, then he's probably going to have two of the most miserable years of his life if the Democrats take the gavels in the House, and I'm trying to avoid that.
TAPPER: All right. Senator Thom Tillis, thanks so much for your time.
TILLIS: Thank you.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
TAPPER: That was a lot. Let's get some reaction to what we heard from Senator Tillis. We're going to squeeze in a quick break. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[18:35:00]
TAPPER: Continuing with our Politics Lead, I'm joined by Senior Political and Global Affairs Commentator Rahm Emanuel, who's been a congressman, a U.S. ambassador, a mayor of Chicago, Obama, White House chief of staff. I really want to know what you think about what Senator Tillis had to say about the Democratic Party and about the Republican Party. He did when -- about the Democrats, he pointed to Zohran Mamdani, the Democratic nominee for Mayor of New York. He says, glad Democrats are going so far, the inmates are running the asylum. What do you think?
RAHM EMANUEL, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL AND GLOBAL AFFAIRS COMMENTATOR: Well, I'm not so sure that's the case, because there's also, as you -- what he left out was the nominee in Virginia and the nominee for governor also in New Jersey, both women out of the military coming in the 2018 class.
I know you love to talk about them. You brought them up last time I brought up Mamdani.
EMANUEL: Yes, also what's happened, to be clear -- TAPPER: Let's talk about Mamdani. Mamdani's going to be the mayor -- probably the mayor.
EMANUEL: Oh, no, he'll be. I would be surprised at this point if he isn't. I think his critique -- I mean, if you wanted to say on the positive side, I mean, his critique of cost of living is not limited to New York and his focus on that singularity and repetitively is correct. I think his solutions are not correct for the problem. As a mayor, I dealt with food deserts. We eliminated somewhere between 20 to 30 percent of them. I didn't do it through grocery store. I did it through form of the process. I went to all the major grocers. I said, you give me four applications, I'll treat one in the food desert, all of these as one, if you have a food desert grocery store.
That's a way to approach this problem.
TAPPER: To eliminate the onerous regulations?
EMANUEL: Jake, you and I, we have four or five options within a mile of our homes.
TAPPER: Sure.
EMANUEL: There are people on the Southside of Chicago, people in D.C. that don't have a single option within four or five miles.
TAPPER: Yes. It's a real problem in Anacostia.
EMANUEL: Right. Okay. So, this is a real issue. Now, I don't think his solution, but its understanding of the problem is there.
Second, I offered free buses when we redid the entire red line on the Southside for four months, tied free buses to when you're doing subway construction and rehabilitation. The idea that you're going to do free buses is not correct. On the other hand, what is also correct, without a modern mass transit system where people live, they can't get to work. You can do it. I can do it.
TAPPER: Well, you did something on that also, the free busing, free buses for --
EMANUEL: He did it for, say, 65 and older and stuff like that.
TAPPER: Right. I'm just saying it's --
EMANUEL: So, my point is, look, I understand why the Republicans are trying to make him the face of the Democratic Party. That's not going to be the case. And there are other parts that I think are more important, more indicative --
TAPPER: Well, it's not the mayor of Massa Pecos, that he would be the mayor of New York City. I mean, it's --
EMANUEL: You're talking to a -- don't get competitive. You're talking to a former mayor of Chicago. TAPPER: But I'm just saying like there's a reason why Republicans would make him the face of the Democratic Party and it's not inventive.
EMANUEL: I get the tactical reason of doing it, and the strategic and the purpose of paying the dividend and saying, look at the party. My sense is there is a -- and I have a right to do this as a Democrat, is there's a broader perspective of if you look at the future of the party that's going to come out of New Jersey and Virginia.
TAPPER: And Tillis seemed to say like the Democrats are --
EMANUEL: Yes, but here's what --
TAPPER: You guys are killing yourselves and he says he's afraid of a Democrat resting the party back towards the center.
EMANUEL: As somebody who has spent my life --
TAPPER: Yes, this is for bread and butter when you were in the Congress.
EMANUEL: Well, he's also trying to avoid a conversation. You asked him two questions.
TAPPER: Yes.
EMANUEL: He didn't answer the question about the Republican Party and the inmates. He only wanted to talk about the inmates of the Democratic Party. Both parties are facing a consequences and a challenge where people not just on the extreme, people out of the mainstream are in control of the microphone and have too much time on the microphone.
His only challenge, and to your answer, which is on both parties, was about one party. I appreciate his insights to the Democratic Party. Let me give him a suggestion on the Republican Party. What they just did on Medicaid --
TAPPER: Yes.
EMANUEL: -- and what they -- and I'll give you an example, not just on that.
TAPPER: Well, he's made his position clear on Medicaid.
EMANUEL: Oh, yes. Not in a consequential way, but a lot of other senators that are fellow travelers (ph) did not watch. What happens now on opiate overdoses. One of the consequences of cutting Medicaid, which has been incredibly important in the reduction of opiate deaths, you're going to see that swing now the other way. Second, all these cuts and elimination of support for new energy, you're going to get utility rates going up.
So, what this bill does when Jeff Bezos is often Venice getting married -- TAPPER: You weren't invited?
EMANUEL: 50,000 -- nor were you. 50,000 kids --
TAPPER: Your brother was though.
EMANUEL: I don't care. 50,000 kids won't be able to see their pediatrician.
TAPPER: Yes.
EMANUEL: And as a kid whose father was a pediatrician, those kids deserve a pediatrician. And I'm sorry, Jeff Bezos doesn't deserve a tax cut.
TAPPER: You are -- you're very own message, you've always been very on message, very disciplined fellow.
EMANUEL: I would look forward to having Senator Tillis. I can talk about his inmates that he can't control, and I'm glad that he has some insights and advice for what we can do.
TAPPER: Rahm Emanuel, always great to have you here. Thank you so much for being here.
Coming up next, why Trump's Justice Department is investigating former FBI Director James Comey and former CIA Director John Brennan. Stay with us.
[18:40:00]
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TAPPER: In our Law and Justice Lead, the FBI is investigating former CIA Director John Brennan and former FBI Director James Comey for possible false statements to Congress. This is according to a person briefed on the matter. President Trump was asked about this afternoon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: James Comey and John Brennan now under criminal investigation related to the Trump-Russia probe. Do you want to see these two guys behind bars?
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Well, I know nothing about it other than what I read today. But I will tell you, I think they're very dishonest people. I think they're crooked as hell, and maybe they have to pay a price for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: CNN's Evan Perez joins us. Evan, what's this all about? Is there anything there?
EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Well, we don't know what they're exactly able to find in this investigation, Jake, and we don't even know how far this has gone. But they're clearly looking at some of the testimony by these two men in the last few years.
Remember, there's a five-year statute of limitations on these types of investigations. And so what they're doing is essentially re-litigating the 2016 election, the 2016-20 17 investigation, the Trump-Russia investigation, which has already been looked at by a -- by a -- by an inspector general and also by John Durham, who was a special counsel who examined all of these things, including the handling of intelligence, and really, you know, went over all of this.
[18:45:10]
And obviously those two men were not charged.
But we do know this. We do know that, as you can hear from Donald Trump, from the president, he has had a fixation on both of these men and believes both of them should be in prison. And so, we now have the FBI looking at a referral that was made by the current CIA director, John Ratcliffe, who says that there was some politicized decisions that were made in the handling of that intelligence back in 2016.
Again, we don't know how far this will go, but certainly if the FBI is going to spend time doing this, you know, this is where they're going to center it, which is looking at their statements and looking at whether there was any wrongdoing in the handling of that investigation. And we'll see how far this goes. It certainly what Donald Trump, though, has long had on his wish list.
TAPPER: All right. Evan Perez, thanks so much.
President Trump is pumping out more tariff letters to various countries notifying them of new tariff rates. What small business owners here in the U.S. think of this moneymaking tactic is next.
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[18:50:05]
TAPPER: In our money lead, President Trump has now sent 22 letters to various countries advising them of new tariff rates, some as high as 50 percent, on their exports to the United States, which brings us to our "Business Leaders" series, when small business owners weigh in on President Trump's sweeping tariffs right on main street.
Stephenson's of Elkhart in Indiana is known for bridal gowns and prom dresses and special occasion, where it's a family-owned business that's been operating since 1931.
And owner Danny Reynolds joins us now.
Danny, how much of the bridal fashion industry relies on overseas manufacturing and are the tariffs impacting your business?
DANNY REYNOLDS, OWNER, STEPHENSON'S OF ELKHART: Well, first, thanks for having us, Jake. I appreciate that.
And to answer your question, for better or worse, over 90 percent of all bridal merchandise comes from China actually. They -- they do get the lions' share of the production. I've been doing this for about 30 of our 95 years, and I really, for these last 30 years, have watched that production shift.
We were probably 50 percent domestically produced in the '90s, early 2000s. And just over time have gone to complete reliance on China and outside manufacturing.
TAPPER: So, obviously, one of the reasons president Trump is doing this is because he's trying to bring manufacturing back to the United States. Is it possible to manufacture these fabrics, these dresses, et cetera., in the United States?
REYNOLDS: Well, that's the tricky thing, Jake. I mean, I know more than anybody would love to see domestic production for a lot of reasons. I think our country was built on that. I think that it's healthy for our economy, but I think we have to be realistic about what is actually possible in the global economy that we live in. It's been estimated that.
So, if you look at a wedding gown behind me, our average retail price these days is around $1,800 for something like that. It's been estimated that if we were even able to produce such a gown here in the U.S., the price due to labor, due to, you know, other things would be over $4,500. That's not affordable to the average American consumer. And that's who our customer is.
Even if we were able to do so, if I could snap my fingers and have a wedding gown production factory behind our store, that would be great. But we would still be reliant on raw materials that all come from other countries.
TAPPER: So, have these tariffs forced you to raise prices?
REYNOLDS: We are definitely seeing price increases. It's funny, I was paying invoices today and noticed on one a 35 percent tariff fee because this order was placed sometime in late April. And that's when, you know, we were first hearing about these kinds of things coming in.
So the hope is that, you know, we're going to be able to absorb some. We hope that the manufacturers, wholesalers can absorb some, because the last thing we want to do is pass any increase on to the consumers. The economy is difficult right now and people are struggling. And so, we don't want to have to raise prices if we don't have to. So, the hope is that we can get something figured out. So, the price the consumer is not going to go up.
TAPPER: Have you seen customer behavior -- consumer behavior change in the past 6 or 7 months since these tariffs have gone into effect?
REYNOLDS: You know, we've definitely seen I guess at first I said I wasn't noticing much price resistance, a little bit more what I would call price awareness. But then really a sense of urgency in consumers because they hear, you know, what's on the news, they hear what you all are reporting and they're afraid of what could be coming around the corner. And I think that really kind of sums up the whole thing for all of us.
Listen, were retailers. I think most business people, we like to be able to plan our business. We like to be able to plan for the future. That's hard to do when numbers are changing. Sometimes on the daily, we don't know what the expenses are going to be tomorrow, let alone six months from now.
So, it makes it difficult for people to plan businesses. It makes it difficult for young couples to plan weddings as well. So, it's just hard, you know, as if I can speak generally for a moment. As entrepreneurs, we were people that typically like to control our own destiny. And we have had so much sort of handed to us.
I mean, to draw you a quick picture, if you go back just five years in our 95 year old businesses life, it was the pandemic. Imagine trying to plan a wedding or help a bride during the pandemic. Then we had the supply chain crisis that came from that, and then we had, you know, the port strikes and now this. It's been a lot of things thrown at us that are completely out of our control.
TAPPER: All right. The business is Stephenson's of Elkhart. It's in Elkhart, Indiana.
Danny Reynolds, thank you so much for talking to us today.
REYNOLDS: Thanks again, Jake. Really appreciate it.
TAPPER: Coming up next, President Trump's interesting compliment to the president of Liberia today during a roundtable at the White House.
[18:55:04]
What could go wrong?
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
TAPPER: Some breaking news for you, parts of the D.C. area are currently under a tornado warning. The rain and winds are dangerously strong. They got our attention here in the studio.
That tornado warning expires at 7:00 Eastern in just a few minutes. At the top of the hour, meteorologists warned earlier today that the D.C. to Philadelphia corridor were especially susceptible to a flooding risk this evening.
In our last leads, let's go to the White House, where President Trump today met with the leaders of five African nations, including Liberia. Here is the president of Liberia, Joseph Boakai.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSEPH BOAKAI, LIBERIAN PRESIDENT: We want to work with the United States in peace and security within the region, because we are committed to that. And we just want to thank you so much for this opportunity.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Well, thank you and such good English. Such beautiful. Where did you -- where did you learn to speak so beautifully? Where were you educated? Where?
BOAKAI: Yes, sir.
TRUMP: In Liberia.
BOAKAI: Yes, sir.
TRUMP: Well, that's very interesting. It's beautiful English.
BOAKAI: Sure.
TRUMP: I have people at this table can't speak nearly as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
TAPPER: Note to President Trump the official language of Liberia is English.
"ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT" starts now.
