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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Dodges On Appointing Special Counsel To Investigate Epstein: "I Have Nothing To Do With It"; Trump Blames Biden For Fed Chair Powell, Despite Being The One Who Nominated Him For Chairman; New CNN Poll: Six In Americans Oppose Trump's Policy Bill; Israel Targets Damascus In Clash Over Arab Minority Group; Some Democrats Praise Zohran Mamdani's Campaign Success; Rep. August Pfluger (R-TX), Is Interviewed About At Least 134 People Dead In Texas Flooding. Aired 5-6p ET

Aired July 16, 2025 - 17:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN ANCHOR: I have to say. What this game does is it pits the lawmakers, Republicans and Democrats together. Because as you're aware, Kasie, there aren't as many women in Congress as men against us, the reporters. And so where do you get to take on a lawmaker like you did there? But that happens sometimes, people just laying each other out flat.

KASIE HUNT, CNN HOST: Right?

KEILAR: It's very competitive. There's a lot of trash talk.

HUNT: There is. Speaking of trash talk, Jake Tapper is standing by. Jake, have you been to the game?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: I have not. I have not. It's usually on when I'm broadcasting. But I have to say just three of the best people I know, Brianna Keilar, Kasie Hunt, Sara Sidner. B Money, I want to see some brush back pitches from you tonight.

I want to see -- I want -- I want some of these lawmakers to feel the heat coming at them. Is that OK?

KEILAR: You want me to like throw it hard at their heads? Is that what you're saying?

TAPPER: Not at their heads?

KEILAR: It's on your hand. I pretend your hand.

TAPPER: Near their head.

KEILAR: I will do my best in their heads.

TAPPER: No, near, near. Not --

KEILAR: No, that's probably actually going to happen, seriously, Jake, accidentally not on purpose. TAPPER: Of course.

KEILAR: I can almost guarantee.

TAPPER: Of course, accidentally. I get you. I see you, accidentally.

Thanks, Kasie. We'll see you back in "The Arena" tomorrow.

HUNT: Have a great show, Jake.

[17:01:07]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: If you're MAGA and you want to see the Epstein files, well, Trump says he doesn't want your support anymore. The Lead starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: All it is the Republicans -- certain Republicans got duped by the Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: President Trump, frustrated by supporters continue continuing to demand to see the files on pedophile and sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. Today he called those supporters weaklings. He said they, quote, "bought into this bullshit," unquote, and suggested they should take a hike as the calls grow to see what the feds have kept hidden for decades.

Plus, the Texas congressman whose daughters thankfully escaped disastrous flooding at Camp mystic in Texas, he'll be here on The Lead to tell us what his community is going through nearly two weeks after the catastrophe. And Eric Adams, the mayor of New York City, accused in a brand new lawsuit by a former police commissioner of running the NYPD as a criminal enterprise.

Welcome to The Lead. I'm Jake Tapper.

President Trump today angrily denounced the support of anyone in his ranks who cares about the Jeffrey Epstein case, AKA a significant number of people in his base who by the way, elected Trump after he pledged to release the Epstein files after his surrogate Elon Musk told Tucker Carlson that billionaires were backing Kamala Harris because they were terrified Trump would release the Epstein list. Now this latest Kerfuffle started this morning with Trump's post on Truth Social, where he continued to falsely assert that the Epstein files are some sort of Democratic ploy. He wrote, quote, "Their new scam is what we will forever call the Jeffrey Epstein hoax, and my past supporters have bought into this bullshit, hook, line and sinker. They haven't learned their lesson and probably never will. Let these weaklings continue forward and do the Democrats work, don't even think about talking of our incredible and unprecedented success, because I don't want their support anymore," unquote.

This same energy continued in the Oval Office this afternoon, where the president said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They're wasting their time with a guy who obviously had some very serious problems who died three, four years ago. I'd rather talk about the success we have with the economy, the best we've ever had.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: It's of course not a waste of time to care about the fact that dozens, if not hundreds of survivors of rape, assault, trafficking and more have been denied justice in the Epstein case. From the jump, aside from Epstein's own vile crimes, Epstein allegedly helped other powerful people in his orbit get away with heinous actions, including sex abuse, sex trafficking, in some cases the sexual abuse of minors. Here's just one portion of a victim impact statement surrounding the trial for Epstein associate Ghislaine Maxwell, who was sentenced to 20 years in prison for conspiring with Jeffrey Epstein to sexually abuse minors. One victim, who went by the pseudonym Kate, wrote to the judge, quote, "I witnessed Maxwell's relentless and insatiable drive to meet the sexual needs of Epstein at any cost to the vulnerable girls and women upon whom she prayed and fed to Epstein and other powerful men. The many acts that were perpetrated on me by Epstein, including rape, strangulation and sexual assault were never consensual and would have never occurred had it not been for the cunning and premeditated role of Ghislaine Maxwell played."

Kate went on to write that the consequences of what Maxwell did have been far reaching in her life. And this has been, let's just say it, this has been a huge about face for Trump. He's the dog who caught the bus. On a podcast just last fall, he promised he would release the Epstein files.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: But a lot of big people went to that island, but fortunately I was not one of them. Yes, I'd be inclined to do the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[17:05:03]

TAPPER: Back in 2019, in Trump's first term, he retweeted a baseless conspiracy theory suggesting that Epstein's death was tied to Bill and Hillary Clinton. The Epstein case is sadly not a hoax, as the president now claims. So what's going on here? Let's go to CNN's Kristen Holmes at the White House.

Kristen Trump has gone from saying everyone should move on from Epstein to saying he doesn't even want to supporter -- the support of people who care about this. That's a lot of people. We should note that in the not so recent past, those who cared about this case have included his son Don Jr., his Vice President J.D. Vance, his Attorney General Pam Bondi, FBI Director Cash Patel, and on and on. What's the thinking here? KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Jake, I'm not really sure there is thinking behind this. A lot of this seems to be unforced errors by President Trump. I've talked to a number of people around him who do believe that they are understanding where the base stands. But it still seems unclear that President Trump realizes what a big deal this is to so many of his supporters.

And just to give some clarity here, it's not just the people who voted for them, it's also the big personalities on the right and some really who had never voted before now part of the MAGA movement who drew in their supporters, people who have podcasts, YouTube shows to get them to the polls to vote for Donald Trump and in order to release the Epstein files. And part of this, what I'm hearing from these supporters is they don't really understand why exactly he's made this about face. Here's what he said in the Oval Office today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It's all been a big hoax. It's perpetrated by the Democrats and some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net and so they try and do the Democrats work.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOLMES: A couple of other things he said that he has lost faith in certain people because of their belief in these so called Epstein files, that the Republicans have been duped. Again, as you noted, some of the people who've been placed in the highest roles in his administration, I guess are some of these same people who were allegedly duped by this, quote unquote, "Epstein hoax," as President Trump has said. Now, our colleague DJ Judd just caught up with President Trump as he was leaving an event and asked about whether or not he would appoint a special counsel or consider appointing a special counsel. He said he has nothing to do with it. And let's be clear, if someone was going to appoint a special counsel, it would of course, have to go through the attorney general's office.

But as we have reported time and time again since Donald Trump took office, the Justice Department is operating the least independently that it has in modern history. So of course, President Trump would have everything to do with a decision about a special counsel here, Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Kristen Holmes, thanks so much.

Let's discuss this with two former Trump White House officials, Mike Dubke, former Trump White House communications director in the first term, Jim Schultz, former Trump White House lawyer.

Jim, you've worked with Trump on a very personal level. Explain to us the mindset here and what you would advise him as his lawyer to say right now.

JIM SCHULTZ, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE LAWYER: So in terms of what folks are thinking here and, you know, not to get to the crux of this, I think we need to be more concerned, less concerned about MAGA, more concerned about the victims associated with these cases.

TAPPER: I agree.

SCHULTZ: Right? When you saw people walking around with the binders, outside of that, I thought I handled human trafficking cases on behalf of victims on a pro bono basis, I'm thinking what are the victims thinking at this moment with people walking outside the White House, reporters with these binders purportedly containing information? They don't know what's in those binders, they don't know what's going to come out and purportedly containing information. The trauma, we have to think about the trauma that those folks are going through, those women are going through who had been abused, who had been purportedly trafficked, and you know what their reaction is to that issue. And I think we're losing all of that, the news media is losing it, the White House is losing it, the attorney general lost it when they paraded around with those -- with those binders, and I think MAGA is losing sight of that, too, and the Democrats in Congress are doing the same thing.

They're politicizing something that's traumatic for folks. And this needs to be governed by and through the court system. And judges need to help make these determinations by and through the Department of Justice if it's something that's going to be released.

TAPPER: I totally agree with you. And that's why we interviewed the attorney for one of the -- for some of the victims yesterday and why I already mentioned them.

Mike Dubke, let me ask you, notwithstanding the point that Jim just made --

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Yes.

TAPPER: -- this is now a political crisis for the president of some sort, at least with his base. Laura Loomer, who is a conspiracy theorist and somebody that I'd rather not even mention but she has the ear of the president. I mean, she, like, suggested some firings in the National Security Council, and he followed through. She told Politico that she worries that his handling of the Epstein case could consume his presidency. She said, quote, "Obviously this is not a complete hoax, given the fact that Ghislaine Maxwell is serving 20 years in prison in Florida for her crimes and activities with Jeffrey Epstein, who we know is a convicted sexual predator," Loomer told Politico, that's all true.

[17:10:09]

"This is why I said, and I'll reiterate it again, the best thing the president can do is appoint a special counsel to handle the Epstein files investigation." Again, she sounds reasonable there. She's not a reasonable person, but still --

DUBKE: Well, look --

TAPPER: -- that she is --

DUBKE: -- she's also a leader within this movement --

TAPPER: That's exactly why I'm --

DUBKE: -- and so what she says on this topic matters.

TAPPER: Yes.

DUBKE: And to Jim's point, the, this is a political story now, like it or not. The courts are almost secondary to what is happening. I frankly am surprised that -- well, I'm not surprised that the president doubled down or even tripled down on this because one of the superpowers of Donald J. Trump is that he runs into fire and survives almost every time. In this instance, though, this is a theory --

TAPPER: He lit this fire.

DUBKE: Well, he didn't necessarily light this fire, but he did stoke it.

TAPPER: Yes.

DUBKE: And as did -- as did his supporters. But they stoked it for a really good reason because a lot of what he won on, one of the reasons that his base loves him so is because he point -- he points to powerful individuals that have been lying to the American people.

TAPPER: Sure.

DUBKE: That whole story, including now sex, is wrapped up in the Epstein -- the Epstein case. So I am surprised that he's trying to be dismissive of this at this point. But I think he's playing to his strength, which is running into this. I don't think it will be successful.

TAPPER: Yes.

DUBKE: At some point we're going to have -- you are going to continue to talk about it, as will others. The Democrats will not let this go and frankly, a good chunk of his supporters will not let this go. And this is going to affect the midterm elections. And this is now a purely political story.

TAPPER: And one of the reasons, and obviously, Jim, just to reiterate which -- that, which I've said several times, the victims, the survivors name should be redacted. I mean, I of course keep their privacy 100 percent. But there is a sense that a lot of powerful men got away with a lot of things, that only two people have been prosecuted in this case and there are a lot of questions about other people in the Epstein orbit and a lot of these powerful men who knows who broke the law and who may not have broken the law, but that people got away with it. An example would be obviously Prince Andrew. Prince Andrew, who told then U.S. attorney Geoff Berman that he would cooperate and then failed to do so, refused to cooperate.

His lawyers stonewalled the Justice Department. This is during the Trump -- the first Trump presidency. Benny Johnson, conservative podcaster, pro-MAGA, he's criticized the way Trump's handled this scandal. He called it abysmal. He's not alone. What do you think Trump should do? Do you agree that a special counsel or some sort of -- some sort of person at the Justice Department should just take this and say, look, I'm going to do this, I'm going to, like, find the stuff that can be released, protect the survivors, and release that which is credible as President Trump said.

SCHULTZ: If there are cases to be brought against offenders, those cases should be brought. If they're -- if this is -- you know, if there are individuals that call them celebrities, politicians, rich people, whoever's, you know, involved in all of this, if this is just solely to protect them, then we still need to go through the court system in order to release them, because the Justice Department -- it's really up to the court. So this is a case that lied in the court system, that sits in the -- that sat in the court system, and it's up to that judge that oversaw that case to turn over evidence and information that may have come through grand jury information, right? You can't just turn that evidence over unless you get permission to do it from time to time. So, yes, I think there should be a process, but you have to follow the process that everybody else follows in the -- these instances and involve the court system. For some politician or congressman or anybody to wave their magic wand and say, hey, this stuff's all going to be released is kind of ludicrous and completely insensitive to those victims because those victims have rights, and those rights come by and through the court system.

TAPPER: Yes. Go ahead.

DUBKE: The one -- the one thing I want to add to this, though, the worst thing this White House could do is appoint a special prosecutor. I think when you were talking about Loomer, talking about that, I think those beings go out of control in this town, and the worst thing they could do is that. I like Jim's idea of maybe, or your idea of maybe an individual within the Justice Department. Other files need to be released, but if they appoint a special prosecutor, you know, watch out.

TAPPER: Well, yes, special prosecutors have a way of becoming, like you say, magic beans that grow into giant vines, and all of a sudden there's a giant coming down --

DUBKE: Yes.

TAPPER: -- and you got yourself --

DUBKE: Terrible idea.

TAPPER: -- once --

DUBKE: Terrible idea.

TAPPER: -- a bad land deal in Arkansas has become something else.

All right, Mike Dubke, Jim Schultz, thanks to you. Appreciate it.

[17:14:58]

Also today, President Trump says it's unlikely he's going to fire the chairman of the Federal Reserve, Jerome Powell, despite having criticized the guy for months, including today, a dig he tried to take on Powell today was really bizarre. We'll let you listen. Plus, making the sell on the one Big Beautiful Bill Act to the American public. That was the job of Vice President J.D. Vance today. A new CNN poll gages how much work Vice President Vance has ahead of him.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: In our money lead, President Trump says it is highly unlikely he will fire Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, despite telling lawmakers in a private meeting just yesterday he was considering it. But Trump didn't just deny reports he would fire Powell, he also said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He's a terrible fed chair. I was surprised he was appointed. I was surprised, frankly, that Biden put him in and extended him. But they did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Hold on a second, for the record, it was President Trump who elevated Jerome Powell to Federal Reserve chair. He's the one who had put him in there. Remember the whole Rose garden event in November 2017?

[17:20:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: It is my pleasure and my honor to announce my nomination of Jerome Powell to be the next chairman of the Federal Reserve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: OK. So, anyway, joining me now, CNN Anchor and Chief Domestic Correspondent Phil Mattingly.

Phil, President Trump said today I was surprised he was appointed. You appointed him. Did he really not remember that?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's not only that. It's that the beef with Jerome Powell started back in 2018. President Trump started pursuing the idea of removing the Fed chair. Back in 2018, it was a risk that his economic advisers viewed as so palpable and potentially realistic that they actually pursued both economic data showing that it had a negative market impact every time he talked about the idea of it and also the legal grounds showing that he did not have the authority back in 2018. He also still pretty much hates Steven Mnuchin, his Treasury secretary, who recommended Powell because he recommended Powell.

So I don't have a good explanation.

TAPPER: I guess it's just trying to will, you know, Earth two into --

MATTINGLY: It's a confusing story to follow right now. This is a new element. No question.

TAPPER: Something's confused. Turning back to what Trump said today, that it's highly unlikely that he will fire Powell, that's a direct contrast with what you're reporting.

MATTINGLY: Yes. Last night, the president met in the Oval Office with a group of House Republicans over a cryptocurrency bill where the issue came up. Look, the president's view on this, his disdain for Powell, his disdain for where rates currently sit, is not secret, nor is it subtle. But in the course of that conversation, I'm told that he polled the lawmakers that were present whether or not he should fire Powell, just about everybody there said the answer is yes. And he also referenced a piece of paper that he said was a draft removal letter of Powell.

What's most interesting is this morning, as reporting started coming out on this, the White House didn't knock it down.

TAPPER: Yes.

MATTINGLY: In fact, there were officials who were saying that it was likely he was headed in this direction. Thirty minutes later, and a significant market dip later, the president saying it's not on the table, repeating what he said for months. It's not something he's going to pursue at this moment, but he might if cause suddenly percolates in the future.

TAPPER: But on that matter, on Trump seeing the market dip, perhaps we assume that might have been what motivated him and then saying, no, I'm not considering right now, take a listen to Louisiana Republican Senator John Kennedy asked if Trump should fire Jerome Powell. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY (R-LA): If you fire the chairman of the Federal Reserve, you will see the stock market crash and you will see the bond market crash.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: I know that Powell -- that a lot of people on Wall Street respect Powell. Is that dire warning true?

MATTINGLY: Based on I think a very significant catalog of economic research, countries who have a central bank that is not viewed as independent typically do not end up in a good place. In fact, there's a great quote from Kennedy a couple of weeks ago where he said, "Generally speaking, their Powerball jackpot is 287 chickens and a goat." As in the economy's not great there. It's a very Kennedyesque.

TAPPER: Yes. I got it. I didn't need the explainer, but thank you.

MATTINGLY: You know, some people might. And I think that's the risk here.

Look, let's not clutch pearls here. Presidents have jawboned the Fed in the past --

TAPPER: Sure.

MATTINGLY: -- privately, publicly. This is a very different level of jawboning. I think the primary difference here, when you talk to economic advisors, they understand, one, the value of the independence of the Fed, the necessity of it, but also the very clear risk of going down the path of trying to remove Fed. They don't believe they have a legal basis in and of itself. Pursuing it for cause is tenuous at best despite the effort they've got underway behind the scenes right now.

What they point to is that the effort to kind of work the rest here, as Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent says, could have an effect over time. Just keep in mind, Jake, and you know as well, Jay Powell is not making unilateral decisions on interest rates --

TAPPER: Right.

MATTINGLY: -- during Fed meetings. It is a federal open market committee. None of the committee members in the last meeting voted to cut rates. There may be a couple who are considering it, but Powell can't do it on his own.

TAPPER: Right.

MATTINGLY: Moving him certainly wouldn't help that. And I think the interesting thing is there is a policy debate about the value of cutting rates at this point in time. And the president seems to be undercutting that by focusing on this and potentially removing him instead.

TAPPER: On another matter having to do with the economy, Vice President J.D. Vance was in Pittsburgh today trying to sell the president's one Big Beautiful Bill Act. A new CNN poll shows that 61 percent of the American people do not support the president's bill. This is not a good number. There's time before the midterms, more than a year, but is this going to be a real problem, do you think, for Republicans?

MATTINGLY: When you talk to Democrats, they believe that's the case. When you talk to Republicans who have seen internal polling, they say it matches up with where CNN's numbers were this morning, for the most part. And I think Vance's point today in his remarks was actually a really salient one, which was telling supporters, don't wait for a year or a year and a half to tell your neighbors that there are valuable aspects of this bill. We don't have that long heading into the midterms. You have to do it now.

[17:25:05] We've seen a lot of presidents pass cornerstone pieces of legislation, claim that there are pieces of it that are popular, and at some point people will get it. I think the administration is aware there's work to do here, particularly on the deficit concerns raised by none other than Elon Musk and Vance is kind of the opening salvo of what is they say is going to be a very significant effort both publicly and events like today, but also on the airwaves as well.

TAPPER: Yes, like no tax on tips or something like that.

MATTINGLY: Extremely popular in isolation. Can they focus on that and get it to kind of sink?

TAPPER: Yes. The Medicaid cuts?

MATTINGLY: Not so much. Less so.

TAPPER: Phil Mattingly, thanks so much. Always good to have you.

To the world lead next, why Israel says that it launched a series of power strikes, this time not on Gaza, not on Iran, but in Syria. See a news anchor's reaction when the surprise attack happened on live T.V. Plus, in Ukraine, Russia unleashes a new barrage of bombs just hours after Trump said he wanted the killing to stop.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[17:30:07]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Allahu Akbar.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: In our World Lead, you're looking at mourners weeping over the bodies of people killed today at an aid site in Gaza. At least 20 people died in a crowd crush at the distribution site run by the controversial Gaza Humanitarian Foundation, or GHF. That's according to the controversial -- that's according to Israeli and the controversial U.S.-backed organization, marking the first time that GHF or others have acknowledged deaths at one of its sites.

GHF says the deadly surge was, quote, driven by agitators in the crowd. Hamas is blaming the aid group, saying that they herded thousands of starving people into narrow corridors. Also, in the region, massive Israeli airstrikes rained down on Syria's capital of Damascus earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: An understandably terrified, Syrian news anchor leaping from her chair there as one strike hit the defense ministry behind her. This is just one of several government buildings targeted in what the Syrian government is calling a dangerous escalation. Israel says the strikes are necessary to support an Arab minority group or a minority group recently involved in deadly crashes with the Syrian government forces, the Druze. More now from CNN's Jeremy Diamond.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Speaking in Foreign Language).

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Israeli bombs rock the Syrian capital of Damascus, striking the defense ministry in an area near the presidential palace. At least three people were killed and 34 injured in the strikes, according to the country's health ministry.

The defense headquarters suffering a serious blow. But the true cost of these strikes may not yet be known, threatening to derail new U.S.- brokered security talks between Israel and Syria.

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: We think we're on our way towards a real de-escalation and then hopefully get back on track in helping Syria build a country and -- and arriving at a -- at a situation there in the Middle East that's far more stable.

DIAMOND (voice-over): The attacks came after days of clashes in Syria's southern city of Suwayda, between Bedouin tribes and the Druze community, a religious minority whose members also live in Israel and Lebanon. Dozens of people have been killed in the clashes in recent days. Syrian troops soon entered Suwayda, with the government saying it was looking to stop the violence.

But some Druze leaders saw the approach of government forces as a threat. And so did Israel, which struck approaching Syrian tanks, rocket launchers and trucks carrying weapons, saying it was acting to prevent a massacre against the Druze. But Israel isn't just striking to protect the Druze.

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We are committed to keeping southwestern Syria a demilitarized zone.

DIAMOND (voice-over): Israeli troops captured this buffer zone between Syria and the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights after the fall of the Assad regime last year. But Israel has also demanded Syrian troops remain out of southern Syria altogether.

In the Israeli-held Golan Heights, the large Syrian Druze community here is deeply impacted by attacks on the Druze in Suwayda.

FAEZ SHKEIR, ISRAELI DRUZE (through translator): My wife is in Syria, my uncles are from Syria and my family is in Syria, in Suwayda. I don't like to see them being killed. They kicked them out of their homes, they robbed and burned their houses. But I can't do anything. It's very hard on me.

DIAMOND (voice-over): That sense of helplessness driving hundreds of Druze to take matters into their own hands, pouring across an Israeli security fence and into the Syrian buffer zone on the road to Suwayda.

Jeremy Diamond, CNN, Jerusalem.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAPPER: And our thanks to Jeremy Diamond for that report.

Also in our world lead today, Russia fired some 400 drones and one missile into four key regions of Ukraine overnight. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's hometown was among the targets. The strikes come just days after President Trump expressed frustration with Russian President Vladimir Putin and promised more military aid to Ukraine will come funneled through NATO.

Ahead, what elected Democrats said today after meeting the high- profile progressive Zohran Mamdani, who is the Democratic nominee for New York City mayor.

[17:34:32]

Plus, notable names going out of their way to visit early primary state South Carolina. Is it too early to be testing the waters of 2028?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Anybody that's staying out at this point instead of endorsing this incredible dynamic leader is missing an opportunity.

REP. LUZ RIVAS (D-CA): We were just learning skills from him, communication skills. It was not about whether we're supporting him or not.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): I think he's a very personable, smart young man. And -- and I hope we're not going to have a lot of circular firing squads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Some praise today from House Democrats for Zohran Mamdani. He is the Democratic nominee for New York mayor. House Democrats got a chance today here to hear directly from him at an event here in Washington, D.C. hosted by Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, also from New York, here to discuss two Democrats, Kate Bedingfield, former White House communications director under President Biden, and Ashley Etienne, former Harris communications director and senior advisor for then Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

So I thought, I don't know what you guys thought, but I thought the idea that we're learning communication skills from him, from Congresswoman Rivas, was very interesting because he obviously, moving aside some of his baggage and the fact that he's a Democratic socialist, he obviously has tremendous communication skills. [17:40:14]

ASHLEY ETIENNE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR FOR VP HARRIS: No, I mean, that's absolutely right. And -- and actually, the person who brought him, AOC, who has even more spectacular communication skills, and she's been driving this point for the Democratic Party for some time. You know, if we just take a step back here, here's how I see it. I think the Democratic Party is facing a three alarm fire.

We're in an identity crisis where you have these internal warring factions. We have outdated infrastructure from our state parties to how we engage voters, which is what Mamdani was talking about today. And then the third is that we have a trust gap with our base and we're bleeding support.

And all of that I saw play out in -- in this New York primary race just now. And so the fact that he's there addressing the caucus and engaging the caucus, which, you know, I've been in those rooms. You know, many of those members are not -- not just, I mean, no disrespect, not just aging, but even their tactics and their strategies are a little dated too.

And really educating the party on two lessons that we need to take away. One, which is the affordability message is a winner. And second, we've got to diversify our tactics. We've got to become more aggressive about meeting voters where they are. But all of, you know, for me, put all of that aside. If we don't, as a party really addresses three alarm fire in a robust way, we're going to continue to lose.

TAPPER: So I'll -- I'll get back to that in a second, the larger issue with the Democratic Party, but on the Mamdani issue, sources told CNN that Mamdani told a bunch of business leaders in a closed door meeting yesterday in New York, that he says he will discourage people from using the phrase, globalize the intifada, a term that obviously a lot of people find anti-Semitic as think that it calls for violence against Jews. But he's not condemning the phrase. He's going to discourage use, but not condemning the phrase.

And lest we forget the two major Democratic leaders in this country, Chuck Schumer of New York and the Senate, Hakeem Jeffries of New York and the House have not yet endorsed Mamdani. And I think some of his far left positions and some of these issues about Israel are -- are part of the reason.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. He should distance himself from the phrase. It's a deeply problematic phrase. And he -- and he should, I think, make very clear that it's as I think he said before, that's not one he himself uses. He should be unequivocal about that.

Look, I think it is a problem for Democrats when progressives apply these liberal purity tests. I think it's equally a problem when moderates do. I think we need to build as big a tent as we possibly can. I think in Mamdani, you've seen somebody who's generated genuine energy in admittedly one of the most liberal and progressive cities, districts in the country, but he's generating genuine excitement. The Democratic Party should embrace that. That doesn't mean that every Democrat in a purple or a red district across the country has to endorse him.

TAPPER: Yes.

BEDINGFIELD: In fact, there are things about him they can run against. That's fine. But I think that Democrats should learn what they can from him. I think it's great that he was speaking to the caucus today. He obviously knows a lot about communication. He's very authentic. He's smart. And he talks in a way that's accessible and speaks to concerns that people have. That's a good thing. And Democrats should learn from him.

TAPPER: So meanwhile, Democratic Kentucky Governor Andy Beshear was in South Carolina today. And this comes to the issue of Democrats going forward, fueling speculation that he might run for president in 2028. When asked repeatedly about his future, he took a jab at Vice President J.D. Vance by contrasting their various roots in the Appalachian heartland. He also said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): I'm traveling more because I'm trying to be a common sense, common ground, get things done type of voice that can pull not just Democrats back together, but hopefully pull Republicans and independents together too. And say, let's focus on these everyday needs of Americans. Let's de-politicize them and get people results.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: Is that what you're looking for?

ETIENNE: I think people definitely are looking for results. I think he's in a spectacular voice, one that we don't leverage and utilize and exploit enough in the Democratic Party. I mean, you've got a Democrat running a red state and successfully running a red state.

TAPPER: Re-elected too.

ETIENNE: Yes, absolutely.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes.

ETIENNE: Twice. And knows very well what's happening on the ground and how Trump's policies are affecting an array of people. So his voice is incredibly necessary right now for the Democratic Party. But I think the problem that we always have is that we, you know, we sort of navel gaze and look for the next Messiah. And like we think that the solution is going to be a message and it's going to be a person when the reality is we actually need to take a step back as a party.

And as I mentioned, really invest in rebuilding our infrastructure. We're getting our butts kicked on so many different fronts by the Republicans, from engaging an influencer strategy, meeting, you know, new techniques to meet voters where they are. Our state party infrastructure is the oldest of the entire party.

People talk about our elected leaders being the oldest, but it's our state party officials that are outdated. We're not investing in rebuilding the party from the ground up. So that's really what I would advise is these folks need to really spend more time investing in building the party.

[17:45:09]

TAPPER: What do you think Democrats need to do?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, look, very practically from 2028, Democrats need to speak to voters who did not vote for Kamala Harris and Tim Walz, and they need to find message that is going to resonate with voters who didn't feel connected to or seen in the message that they heard from -- from Harris and Walz.

And so I think when I see somebody like Andy Beshear, who has, you know, 65 percent, 68 percent approval rating in a state like Kentucky, where who won --

TAPPER: Commonwealth.

BEDINGFIELD: -- excuse me, commonwealth, commonwealth, who won reelection after having everything thrown at him by the Republican Party, including all of the most aggressive Trump messaging in 2023. I think that's a really -- that's a very encouraging place to be.

ETIENNE: What we're getting most is with our base voters right now. That's the real problem. So whether or not he can speak to those base voters is a no.

BEDINGFIELD: Absolutely, absolutely.

TAPPER: All right. Ashley Etienne and Kate Bedingfield, thanks for being here. Really appreciate it.

Next on The Lead, the tragic scenes in Texas and a Republican congressman whose daughters thankfully escaped Camp Mystic as the devastating water started to rise. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[17:50:21]

TAPPER: Back with our National Lead. Recovery efforts still underway after deadly flash flooding claimed the lives of at least 130 people in Texas on the 4th of July. Twenty-seven of those were campers and counselors at Camp Mystic, as you know, an all-girls Christian camp along the Guadalupe River. Joining us now is the father of two of the campers, Congressman August Pfluger of Texas.

Thankfully, his daughters, Caroline and Juliana, made it out OK. Congressman -- Congressman, let me just start by asking you, how are Caroline and Juliana doing? REP. AUGUST PFLUGER (R-TX): Well, Jake, thank you for asking. They're doing well. It's obviously a traumatic event. We're entirely grateful and so blessed that they're with us. But, you know, our prayers and our thoughts with so many families, not just at the camp, but with so many families that were up and down the river who don't have their loved ones.

And this has been a wake-up call, I think, for a lot of people. Many people that I've talked to have said that they're going home and hugging their kids. And I -- and I hope that that's some of the good that can come from it. But I think it's going to be a long road for many of the campers that were there and many of the people that were up and down the river that experienced this trauma, that will have to work through it and understand it. And it's -- it's a -- it's just tragic. I mean, it's just heartbreaking. And our -- our prayers are with so many families right now.

TAPPER: As a lawmaker, I'm sure it's impossible to -- to step back from this because it's so personal. But as a lawmaker, do you have questions about Camp Mystic or Kerr County or Texas and what could be done in the future so this never happens again, or if it does, that people are better prepared?

PFLUGER: Well, I'll start with Camp Mystic. I mean, we love the camp. There -- there's so many places around the country that are like that, that take an interest, a personal interest in raising up boys and girls to be good citizens and community members. So Camp Mystic, like many other places in the Eastland family, have poured their hearts and souls into raising kids.

So, you know, we need to maintain that spirit there and elsewhere. You know, the first responders, Texas Department of Emergency Management, FEMA, DHS did a phenomenal job of responding. This was a tragic event that I don't think you can necessarily plan for. Of course, as an Air Force guy, you always debrief. There will be a time for that. And you always look to do things better.

I think right now what I hope for the nation, though, and as a lawmaker to set this tone, I hope for the nation that we focus back on the family. I hope for the nation that we focus back on our faith and that we can come together. And in a politically divided world, that we can use this as an opportunity to come together as families, as communities to help.

I mean, the outreach from out of state, from in state, from everywhere to help at the camp and up and down the river was incredible.

TAPPER: As you know, as an Air Force veteran, I mean, one of the things -- I'm not an Air Force veteran, but one of the things I know about the Air Force is that so much of it is about planning for every single possible contingency. So maybe -- maybe your leadership in that arena can -- can be helpful.

I want to ask about yesterday when the Texas delegation gathered on the floor of the House of Representatives to pray together. How is it going back home in Texas nearly two weeks after the disaster? How are the citizens who -- who live? Because I know it didn't just affect those on the Guadalupe. It affected the entire state and indeed the entire country.

PFLUGER: Jake, thank you. That's the exact right question. And -- and our communities are hurting. My hometown of San Angelo and many of my surrounding counties that I represent were -- were hit by massive flooding, destroying many structures. And thankful that -- that FEMA and the Trump administration have declared disasters there. But the communities are coming together.

People will. We will rebound. And Texas is strong. And -- and this is an instance where we have the opportunity to -- to show that strength to come together as communities. But people are hurting and especially those who lost their loved ones. I mean, it's just -- it's -- it's hard, Jake. It's hard to even talk about right now. You know, I get choked up even thinking about it. And to talk about it is really difficult.

But you asked the exact right question. How are those families doing? The good news is that so many communities have reached out. So many people have asked how they can help. And it -- it actually makes you proud to be an American, proud to be a Texan, proud to be from the area that I'm from. And I know there's many communities who -- who have endured tragedies. But this one was really just unlike anything else I've ever seen.

TAPPER: It's really horrible. It's really horrible. Congressman August Pfluger, always great to have you on the show. Thank you so much. And please send our best wishes and our love and our prayers to your fam -- to your beautiful family.

[17:55:09]

PFLUGER: Thank you so much, Jake.

TAPPER: Republican Senator Thom Tillis in North Carolina is calling out President Trump when it comes to not releasing Epstein scandal documents. Tillis said, quote, release the damn files. And he's by far not the only vocal Republican on this matter. We're going to go to the Hill next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

TAPPER: Welcome to the Lead. I'm Jake Tapper. This hour I'm going to talk with the House Democrat leading the charge to force the hand of the Justice Department to release whatever documents they have on now dead pedophile sexual trafficker Jeffrey Epstein.

Plus, new details on a stunning murder. An American Idol producer and her husband tragically killed after a break into their Los Angeles home.

Also today, the opioid crisis in America. One city had 27 overdoses in a single day. I'm going to talk with that city's mayor.

[18:00:07] And breaking news on Capitol Hill, Senate Democrats pushing back --